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  #41 (permalink)   Report Post  
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Melba's Jammin'
 
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In article >,
"Nancy Young" > wrote:

> "Victor Sack" > wrote
>
> > The thing to remember about pierogi, pirohy, pelmeni, vareniki,
> > koldunai, etc. is that all of 'em are supposed to be half-moon shaped

>
> Huh ... I thought they were supposed to be triangle shaped.
>
> nancy


Thank you. Finally, some class in this place.
--
http://www.jamlady.eboard.com, updated 1-1-2006, Sam I Am! and Hello!
  #42 (permalink)   Report Post  
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Melba's Jammin'
 
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In article >,
Boron Elgar > wrote:
(Bubba Vic snipped)
> > For meat filling:
> >
> >3/4 lb beef, finely minced
> >3/4 lb pork, finely minced

>
>
> Cooked or raw meat?
>
> Boron


I'm going to watch for Bubba's reply but am going to guess raw. When
I've made meat-filled, I've used raw meat -- ground beef, onion,
seasonings. Pork would be a really good addition, I'll bet. Almost
sausage-y.
--
http://www.jamlady.eboard.com, updated 1-1-2006, Sam I Am! and Hello!
  #43 (permalink)   Report Post  
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Margaret Suran
 
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Victor Sack wrote:
> Melba's Jammin' > wrote:
>
>
>> The Polish is, I believe, pierog. And the Slovak is, (I'm
>> guessing) piroh. Be sure to roll the r.

>
>
> Right-o!
>
>
>> Where the heck is Bubba Vic?

>
>
> Right here.
>
>
>> He knows everything!

>
>
> That goes without saying, ain't it?
>
> The thing to remember about pierogi, pirohy, pelmeni, vareniki,
> koldunai, etc. is that all of 'em are supposed to be half-moon
> shaped *and* boiled, never fried, unless they are leftovers (is
> there such a thing as pierogi leftovers, anyway?). The Lithuanian
> koldunai are an exception, since they are sometimes fried and
> *then* boiled. If you want fried dumplings, consider the Armenian
> boraki, Georgian chebureki, Azerbaijani dushbara or kurze, Tajik
> kushan, Chinese kao-tse, Korean gun-mandu, or Japanese age-gyoza.
>
>
> To answer the OP's question, all of the above are to be frozen raw
> - interestingly enough, the taste even improves as a result.
> Preparing - no matter how - frozen cooked pierogi or some such is
> too gruesome an idea to contemplate.
>
> For recipes, both savoury and sweet, traditional and
> non-traditional, here is yet another repost. Note that pierogi are
> the same thing as the Russian and Ukranian pelmeni and vareniki.
> Ignore Barb's heretical attempts to defile the noble recipe by
> using such an evil contraption as a food processor. Ignore also
> her apostate triangular ushki corruption of the glorious half-moon
> shape of the true pierogi/pirohy/pelmeni/vareniki/koldunai.


I guess you have never heard of Taschkerln, so you do not know
absolutely everything. )
  #44 (permalink)   Report Post  
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Boron Elgar
 
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On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 21:57:28 -0600, Melba's Jammin'
> wrote:

>In article >,
> Boron Elgar > wrote:
>(Bubba Vic snipped)
>> > For meat filling:
>> >
>> >3/4 lb beef, finely minced
>> >3/4 lb pork, finely minced

>>
>>
>> Cooked or raw meat?
>>
>> Boron

>
>I'm going to watch for Bubba's reply but am going to guess raw. When
>I've made meat-filled, I've used raw meat -- ground beef, onion,
>seasonings. Pork would be a really good addition, I'll bet. Almost
>sausage-y.



I will keep an eye out.

Boron
  #46 (permalink)   Report Post  
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Victor Sack
 
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Melba's Jammin' > wrote:

> (Victor Sack) wrote:
>
> > Melba's Jammin' > wrote:
> >
> > The thing to remember about pierogi, pirohy, pelmeni, vareniki,
> > koldunai, etc. is that all of 'em are supposed to be half-moon shaped

>
> Bite me,


I'll bite the spot on your left buttock where your famous beet tattoo
is, okay?

> baby boy!


That's no way to speak to a respectable, elderly grandmother!

> > To answer the OP's question, all of the above are to be frozen raw -
> > interestingly enough, the taste even improves as a result. Preparing -
> > no matter how - frozen cooked pierogi or some such is too gruesome an
> > idea to contemplate.

>
> Sez you. I'll freeze some raw next time out and see how they cook up,
> but you're full of pickled beet juice to suggest that preparing (read
> heating) frozen cooked pirohy is a chore. Bull tweety!


It's not a chore, it's destroying 'em by cooking 'em twice for no good
reason.

> > here is yet another repost. Note that pierogi are the same thing as the
> > Russian and Ukranian pelmeni and vareniki. Ignore Barb's heretical
> > attempts to defile the noble recipe by using such an evil contraption as
> > a food processor. Ignore also her apostate triangular ushki corruption
> > of the glorious half-moon shape of the true
> > pierogi/pirohy/pelmeni/vareniki/koldunai.

>
> Sez you, Bubba! Sez you!


Sez every source published in the old countries for the local
readership.

> > For the dough:
> >
> > 1 1/2 lb flour
> > 2 1/2 cups water (some or all of the water can be replaced with milk if
> > desired)
> > 3 eggs
> > salt

>
> Have you ever actually made them, Bubba Vic?


Soitanly. Mixing the dough by hand is no problem, but rolling it out is
a chore, as far as I'm concerned. Next time I'll try making pelmeni
with ready-made mandu or gyoza wrappers, just to see if the taste is
acceptable.

> A nice young Slovak girl
> taught me to add a small bit of boiled potato to the dough mixture.
> I've done it ever since. And there's nothing, got it, nothing wrong
> with using a food processor for mixing the dough. It's called progress.
> Pfftthhgggbbtt!


Only if you like your ushki made with glue. At least use a bona-fide
mixer, if you must.

Bubba
  #47 (permalink)   Report Post  
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Victor Sack
 
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Nancy Young > wrote:

> "Victor Sack" > wrote
>
> > The thing to remember about pierogi, pirohy, pelmeni, vareniki,
> > koldunai, etc. is that all of 'em are supposed to be half-moon shaped

>
> Huh ... I thought they were supposed to be triangle shaped.


Only if they are ushki/uszki (literally "little ears") which are little
and plump, totally unlike Barb's flat, giant ones, or if they are
kreplach which *are* usually larger than typical pierogi, but still not
flat.

Victor
  #48 (permalink)   Report Post  
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Victor Sack
 
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Margaret Suran > wrote:

> Victor Sack wrote:
> > Melba's Jammin' > wrote:
> >
> >> He knows everything!

> >
> > That goes without saying, ain't it?
> >
> > The thing to remember about pierogi, pirohy, pelmeni, vareniki,
> > koldunai, etc. is that all of 'em are supposed to be half-moon
> > shaped *and* boiled, never fried, unless they are leftovers (is
> > there such a thing as pierogi leftovers, anyway?). The Lithuanian
> > koldunai are an exception, since they are sometimes fried and
> > *then* boiled. If you want fried dumplings, consider the Armenian
> > boraki, Georgian chebureki, Azerbaijani dushbara or kurze, Tajik
> > kushan, Chinese kao-tse, Korean gun-mandu, or Japanese age-gyoza.
> >
> > To answer the OP's question, all of the above are to be frozen raw
> > - interestingly enough, the taste even improves as a result.
> > Preparing - no matter how - frozen cooked pierogi or some such is
> > too gruesome an idea to contemplate.
> >
> > For recipes, both savoury and sweet, traditional and
> > non-traditional, here is yet another repost. Note that pierogi are
> > the same thing as the Russian and Ukranian pelmeni and vareniki.
> > Ignore Barb's heretical attempts to defile the noble recipe by
> > using such an evil contraption as a food processor. Ignore also
> > her apostate triangular ushki corruption of the glorious half-moon
> > shape of the true pierogi/pirohy/pelmeni/vareniki/koldunai.

>
> I guess you have never heard of Taschkerln, so you do not know
> absolutely everything. )


Who says I haven't?!

Bubba
  #51 (permalink)   Report Post  
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Mr Libido Incognito
 
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Victor Sack wrote:

> I do have a recipe for Old-Russian (not Ukrainian) vareniki with a heart
> and lights filling that is cooked.
>
> Victor


I believe this one is Ukrainian

Varenyky Dough: (1) (Pyrohy)

5 cups flour
1 tsp. salt
2 tbsp. butter (soft)
1 cup evaporated milk
1/2 cup water(more or less as needed)

Combine flour and salt in a large bowl, forming a well in the middle. Add
butter and milk and mix lightly until flour is absorbed. Add a little warm
water if needed. Knead until dough sticks together, cover and allow to rest
for a few minutes, then knead until smooth. Cover and set aside. The dough
should be somewhat soft, since more flour is added as dough is rolled out.
Or, in processor, combine flour, salt, and butter and stir a few times.
With machine running, add liquids until a ball forms. Allow to rest a few
minutes, then process until smooth. Place dough in a lightly oiled bowl,
turn, and cover for about 30 minutes before rolling out. It may be wrapped
in plastic and refrigerated for a day or so, brought to room temperature,
and then rolled out. Place a fourth of the dough on floured work surface;
cover remaining dough. Roll into a circle, away from the center, turn over,
flour lightly, and roll again to about 1/8 inch thickness. Run a hand under
the bottom to loosen it. With a 3 inch biscuit cutter or wineglass, cut
rounds. Place a tablespoon of filling to one side of each round, flip over
other hlf, and press edges together, sealing in filling. Place dumlings on
a floured tray; keep dumplings covered with a towel.

Varenyky dough: (2)

2 cups all-purpose flour
1/2 teaspoon salt
2 large egg yolks
1 tablespoon vegetable oil
7 to 8 tablespoons water

In a food processor, blend the flour and 1/2 teaspoon salt. With the motor
running, add the egg yolks and the oil through the feed tube, then pour in
the water, in a slow, steady stream, until the dough forms a ball around
the blade.

Transfer the dough to a floured surface and knead until smooth, about 2
minutes. Cover with cotton tea towel and let stand for 30 minutes.

Divide the dough into twelve equal pieces and shape them into balls. Let
stand covered for 15 minutes.

Potato Dough (3)

1 cup cold mashed potatoes
2 teaspoons melted butter
2 eggs, slightly beaten
1 teaspoon salt
2 cups flour
Water

Combine the potatoes with the butter, eggs, and salt. Add the flour and
enough water to moisten the mixture sufficiently and make a soft dough.
Knead lightly, cover, and let it stand for 10 minutes. Cut the dough into 2
parts for easier handling.

Cheese Dough for Varenyky (4)

2 cups flour
1 teaspoon salt
2 cups cottage cheese
1 egg, slightly beaten
1/3 cup milk, about

Mix the flour with the salt. Press the cottage cheese through a sieve and
combine with the egg and milk. Stir in the flour and knead to make a soft
dough. Cover andlet it stand for 10 minutes. Roll quite thin, cut as
desired, and form small varenyky, using a cottage cheese filling.

Rich Dough for Varenyky (pyrohy 5)

The following recipe gives rich and tender varenyky.

1/2 cup cold mashed potatoes
2 tablespoons shortening
2 egg yolks
1/2 cup lukewarm water
1 3/4 cups flour
1 teaspoon cream of tartar
1 teaspoon salt
1/4 cup flour

Mix the first 3 ingredients thoroughly. Add the water and beat well. Sift 1
3/4 cups of flour with the cream of tartar and salt, and then stir into the
first mixture. This will form a very soft dough. Add 1/4 cup of flour in 2
tablespoon portions until the dough no longer sticks to the hand. The dough
should be very soft. If some of the flour is left, use it for flouring the
board. Knead lightly, cover, and let it stand for 10 minutes. Roll quite
thin, cut into the desired shape and form varenyky, using any favorite
filling.

Varenyky dough (6)

2 cups flour
1 teaspoon salt
1 egg or 2 egg yolks
1/2 cup water, about

Mix the flour with the salt in a deep bowl. Add the egg and enough water to
make a medium soft dough. Knead on a floured board until smooth. Too much
kneading will toughen the dough. Divide the dough into 2 parts. Cover and
let it stand for at least 10 minutes. Prepare filling.

If varenyky are to be frozen, remove with a slotted spoon when they float
to the top. Do not overcook. To freeze, place in freezer on an oiled cookie
sheet while tepid. When they are rigid, store in tightly sealed plastic
bags.

To serve: varenyky may be poached, pan-fried, or steamed, serves as an
accompaniment to meats, or served with sour cream, chopped sauteed onions,
or fried bacon with a little bacon fat.

--

  #52 (permalink)   Report Post  
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Margaret Suran
 
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Victor Sack wrote:
> Margaret Suran > wrote:
>
>
>>Victor Sack wrote:
>>
>>>Melba's Jammin' > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>He knows everything!
>>>
>>>That goes without saying, ain't it?
>>>
>>>The thing to remember about pierogi, pirohy, pelmeni, vareniki,
>>>koldunai, etc. is that all of 'em are supposed to be half-moon
>>>shaped *and* boiled, never fried, unless they are leftovers (is
>>>there such a thing as pierogi leftovers, anyway?). The Lithuanian
>>>koldunai are an exception, since they are sometimes fried and
>>>*then* boiled. If you want fried dumplings, consider the Armenian
>>>boraki, Georgian chebureki, Azerbaijani dushbara or kurze, Tajik
>>>kushan, Chinese kao-tse, Korean gun-mandu, or Japanese age-gyoza.
>>>
>>>To answer the OP's question, all of the above are to be frozen raw
>>>- interestingly enough, the taste even improves as a result.
>>>Preparing - no matter how - frozen cooked pierogi or some such is
>>>too gruesome an idea to contemplate.
>>>
>>>For recipes, both savoury and sweet, traditional and
>>>non-traditional, here is yet another repost. Note that pierogi are
>>>the same thing as the Russian and Ukranian pelmeni and vareniki.
>>>Ignore Barb's heretical attempts to defile the noble recipe by
>>>using such an evil contraption as a food processor. Ignore also
>>>her apostate triangular ushki corruption of the glorious half-moon
>>>shape of the true pierogi/pirohy/pelmeni/vareniki/koldunai.

>>
>>I guess you have never heard of Taschkerln, so you do not know
>>absolutely everything. )

>
>
> Who says I haven't?!
>
> Bubba



I sez you haven't, that's who!
  #53 (permalink)   Report Post  
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Victor Sack
 
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Margaret Suran > wrote:

> Victor Sack wrote:
> > Margaret Suran > wrote:
> >>
> >>I guess you have never heard of Taschkerln, so you do not know
> >>absolutely everything. )

> >
> > Who says I haven't?!

>
> I sez you haven't, that's who!


Ha! Tascheln/Tascherln/Taschkerln are usually made with a sweet filling
(jam, especially Powidl, being typical) and are nearly always fried or
baked, ergo being off-topic for this thread!

Bubba
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Victor Sack
 
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Boron Elgar > wrote:

> That makes sense in that the pelmeni I have had are smaller than most
> pierogies I have had. They could cook the filling in the time that the
> dough is cooking.


Were they commercial machine-made pierogi and pelmeni, or those made
with a special manual contraption that makes 'em by the dozen or more?
Real hand-made-at-home pierogi and pelmeni ought to be similar in size,
since in both cases the dough is typically cut with an ordinary
thin-rimmed drinking glass and such glasses usually don't (or used not
to) differ all that much in diameter from each other, typically being
about 7 cm (2.76 in), in Poland and Russia. I wish Monika would pipe
up.

Victor


  #56 (permalink)   Report Post  
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Margaret Suran
 
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Victor Sack wrote:
> Margaret Suran > wrote:
>
>
>>Victor Sack wrote:
>>
>>>Margaret Suran > wrote:
>>>
>>>>I guess you have never heard of Taschkerln, so you do not know
>>>>absolutely everything. )
>>>
>>>Who says I haven't?!

>>
>>I sez you haven't, that's who!

>
>
> Ha! Tascheln/Tascherln/Taschkerln are usually made with a sweet filling
> (jam, especially Powidl, being typical) and are nearly always fried or
> baked, ergo being off-topic for this thread!
>
> Bubba


Yes, there were Powidltaschkerln, but we had Krauttaschkerln,
Erdaepfeltaschkerln, Topfentaschkerln, too. Probably the favorite
ones in our family were Heidelbeertaschkerln. None were ever fried,
just boiled and served with Rahm, which is what we called sour cream.
Fried onions with the potato and cabbage ones.

It's true, you know nothing about Taschkerln.
  #57 (permalink)   Report Post  
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Melba's Jammin'
 
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In article >,
Margaret Suran > wrote:
(snippage)
> >>>
> >>>>I guess you have never heard of Taschkerln, so you do not know
> >>>>absolutely everything. )
> >>>
> >>>Who says I haven't?!
> >>
> >>I sez you haven't, that's who!

> >
> >
> > Ha! Tascheln/Tascherln/Taschkerln are usually made with a sweet filling
> > (jam, especially Powidl, being typical) and are nearly always fried or
> > baked, ergo being off-topic for this thread!
> >
> > Bubba

>
> Yes, there were Powidltaschkerln, but we had Krauttaschkerln,
> Erdaepfeltaschkerln, Topfentaschkerln, too.


THAT'S telling him, Margaret! I salute you! Have another shot of
Johnny's best.

> Probably the favorite
> ones in our family were Heidelbeertaschkerln. None were ever fried,
> just boiled and served with Rahm, which is what we called sour cream.
> Fried onions with the potato and cabbage ones.
>
> It's true, you know nothing about Taschkerln.


Go, Margaret!!!
--
http://www.jamlady.eboard.com, updated 1-3-2006, Sam I Am! and Hello!
  #59 (permalink)   Report Post  
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Victor Sack
 
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Margaret Suran > wrote:

> Victor Sack wrote:
> >
> > Ha! Tascheln/Tascherln/Taschkerln are usually made with a sweet filling
> > (jam, especially Powidl, being typical) and are nearly always fried or
> > baked, ergo being off-topic for this thread!

>
> Yes, there were Powidltaschkerln, but we had Krauttaschkerln,
> Erdaepfeltaschkerln, Topfentaschkerln, too. Probably the favorite
> ones in our family were Heidelbeertaschkerln. None were ever fried,
> just boiled and served with Rahm, which is what we called sour cream.
> Fried onions with the potato and cabbage ones.


Real Austrian Tascherln are fried or baked almost by default, even when
they are savoury. You are describing Polish pierogi types, something
cooked by your Teta, no doubt! Read Joseph Wechsberg instead. Here,
behold his recipe from _The Cooking of Vienna's Empire_.

Tascherln
Viennese jam pockets

To make 25 pockets

1 1/4 cups unsalted butter, softened
2/3 cup sugar
2 hard-cooked egg yolks
1 egg yolk, lightly beaten
1 teaspoon grated orange peel
2 teaspoons vanilla extract
1/2 teaspoon salt
3 1/4 cups sifted all-purpose flour
1 1/2 cups thick jam or preserves (apricot is suggested)
1 tablespoon water
2 egg whites

Cream the butter and sugar together by beating them against the side of
a bowl with a wooden spoon or by using an electric mixer at medium speed
until the mixture is light and fluffy.
Rub the hard-cooked egg yolksthrough a sieve with a wooden spoon,
then stir them, the egg yolk, orange peel, vanilla and salt into the
butter-sugar mixture. Add the flour 1/2 cup at a time; stir until the
mixture becomes a slightly stiff dough. Shape the dough into a ball,
wrap it in wax paper or plastic wrap and refrigerate it for about an
hour.
On a lightly floured surface, roll the dough out into a 15-inch
square about 1/8 inch thick. With a pastry wheel or sharp knife, cut
the large square into 3-inch squares. Drop a teaspoon of jam onto the
center of each square. Then lift a corner of each square and fold it
over the opposite corner, forming a triangle. Seal the edges by
pressing them firmly with the tines of a fork, then refrigerate them for
30 minutes.
Preheat the oven to 350F. With a pastry brush or paper towel
lightly butter two 14-by-17-inch baking sheets, sprinkle a handful of
flour over the butter, and knock out the excess flour by striking the
inverted sheet against the edge of a table. Arrange the chilled
triangles on the baking sheets, leaving at least 1/2-inch of space
between them. Gently prick the center of each triangle with a fork.
Mix the water and the egg whites together by beating them lightly with a
fork. Then, with a pastry brush, coat each triangle lightly with egg
white mixture.
Bake the triangles on the middle shelf of the oven for 10 or 15
minutes, or until they are lightly browned. Remove them from the baking
sheets with a metal spatula and cool them on a cake rack before serving.

Also behold this 100-year-old recipe at
<http://www.naturverstand.at/rezepte/rezept_tip.php?auswahl=43>.

> It's true, you know nothing about Taschkerln.


You are nasty, Resi!

Bubba
  #60 (permalink)   Report Post  
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Margaret Suran
 
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Victor Sack wrote:
> Margaret Suran > wrote:
>
>
>> Victor Sack wrote:
>>
>>> Ha! Tascheln/Tascherln/Taschkerln are usually made with a
>>> sweet filling (jam, especially Powidl, being typical) and are
>>> nearly always fried or baked, ergo being off-topic for this
>>> thread!

>>
>> Yes, there were Powidltaschkerln, but we had Krauttaschkerln,
>> Erdaepfeltaschkerln, Topfentaschkerln, too. Probably the
>> favorite ones in our family were Heidelbeertaschkerln. None were
>> ever fried, just boiled and served with Rahm, which is what we
>> called sour cream. Fried onions with the potato and cabbage ones.
>>

>
>
> Real Austrian Tascherln are fried or baked almost by default, even
> when they are savoury. You are describing Polish pierogi types,
> something cooked by your Teta, no doubt! Read Joseph Wechsberg
> instead. Here, behold his recipe from _The Cooking of Vienna's
> Empire_.


I never encountered a fried Taschkerl, until I came here and had some
in one of the many Dairy Restaurants in The Bronx. It took a while to
get used to that and I rarely ordered them that way.

These restaurants, abounding in Manhattan, as well, are all gone now,
with the Cafeterias and Automats and Pork Stores and Daitch Dairies
and so many other neighborhood businesses, like Notions Stores.

Up to that time, I had only eaten the ones made by my Teta, as you
easily guessed and she was Polish, so you are right about her cooking
style.
>
> Tascherln Viennese jam pockets


*Nice Recipe Snipped*

> Also behold this 100-year-old recipe at
> <http://www.naturverstand.at/rezepte/rezept_tip.php?auswahl=43>.
>

Teta made something like this, too, but not as a main dish. It was
meant as dessert and we called Baeckerei mit Marmelade. Pastry with
Jam. I thought it was made with Puff Pastry, but it may have been
Muerber Teig.

>> It's true, you know nothing about Taschkerln.

>
> You are nasty, Resi!


And you have become cruel ever since you changed into Bubba Vic.
Don't you know that Resi is my Evil Twin? She is laughing, while poor
Margaret cries. ( Where, oh where is gentle, kind Victor?
>
> Bubba

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