I have just been bombarded with a series of dopy advertisments on TV that
together say: if you don't use this coloured stuff in your toilet, that
spray on your benches, floors and almost every surface of your house, some
perfume or insecticide in this dandy dispenser, and half a dozen other
cleaning products, then you are a bad parent, you will be shunned by your
neighbours and you and your family will die a lingering death of some
disease mediated by green and purple monsters.

Almost every day well meant questions are asked here along the lines:

- w has been in the fridge for 3 days
- x was out of the fridge for 2 minutes
- y still has it's skin on
- z was only washed once
- I wish I had (a tiled floor, or whatever) so my kitchen can be really
clean
- etc etc

what should I do, is it safe, and will this horrid lapse cause me illness,
death or just eternal shame?

We live in a micobiological soup of billions of organisms that occupy the
air that we breath, the water that we drink and every object that we touch.
Many of these bugs are pathogenic in the right circumsances. Your body is
covered with them inside and out no matter how much stuff you put in your
bath, or spray on to yourself or gargle, or the colour of your toilet water.
The food that we eat and you and I are dirty from the day we are born to the
day we die.

Unless you are conducting surgery or are dealing with a person in poor
health whose imune system is compromised all this fuss over super
cleanliness is doing nothing but causing you worry and enriching vendors who
know how to play on your fear and your desire to conform and 'do the right
thing'. Use common sense cleanliness routines - wash your hands, wash your
cooking equipment and so forth. Do these measures make you and your stuff
really clean? No. Neither do all the bunkum products

That is why you have an immune system - to deal with the potential
pathogens. You need keep clean enough to reduce the numbers of the bad bugs
to the point that the immune system can deal with them and to reduce toxins
below harmful levels. Simply measures and common sense will achieve this.
Yes you do need to sterilize things in some circumstances (when even a small
number of bad bugs will get the time and conditions to grow to harmful
levels) this is what brewing and preserving are all about. In normal
cooking sterility is neither needed nor possible.

Those routines taught by grandma or in home economics before the era of 1001
perfumed sprays were actually pretty useful. So trust your nose and your
life experience more and relax.

There I feel better now.

David

"David Hare-Scott" > wrote in message
...
> Those routines taught by grandma or in home economics before the era
> of 1001
> perfumed sprays were actually pretty useful. So trust your nose and
> your
> life experience more and relax.
>
> There I feel better now.

What a fantastic post David. I must admit that the idea of being
covered in bugs all the time made me feel a bit queasy You are right
about the millions of ads trying to get us to buy their wares is true
and I don't fall for them

cheers

Ophelia

David Hare-Scott wrote:
> I have just been bombarded with a series of dopy advertisments on TV that
> together say: if you don't use this coloured stuff in your toilet, that
> spray on your benches, floors and almost every surface of your house, some
> perfume or insecticide in this dandy dispenser, and half a dozen other
> cleaning products, then you are a bad parent, you will be shunned by your
> neighbours and you and your family will die a lingering death of some
> disease mediated by green and purple monsters.
>
> Almost every day well meant questions are asked here along the lines:
>
> - w has been in the fridge for 3 days
> - x was out of the fridge for 2 minutes
> - y still has it's skin on
> - z was only washed once
> - I wish I had (a tiled floor, or whatever) so my kitchen can be really
> clean
> - etc etc
>
> what should I do, is it safe, and will this horrid lapse cause me illness,
> death or just eternal shame?
>
> We live in a micobiological soup of billions of organisms that occupy the
> air that we breath, the water that we drink and every object that we touch.
> Many of these bugs are pathogenic in the right circumsances. Your body is
> covered with them inside and out no matter how much stuff you put in your
> bath, or spray on to yourself or gargle, or the colour of your toilet water.
> The food that we eat and you and I are dirty from the day we are born to the
> day we die.
>
> Unless you are conducting surgery or are dealing with a person in poor
> health whose imune system is compromised all this fuss over super
> cleanliness is doing nothing but causing you worry and enriching vendors who
> know how to play on your fear and your desire to conform and 'do the right
> thing'. Use common sense cleanliness routines - wash your hands, wash your
> cooking equipment and so forth. Do these measures make you and your stuff
> really clean? No. Neither do all the bunkum products

Actually, indications are that it's harming us as a species to kill all
these germies.

Kids today are so often belabored with anti-bacterial soaps, cleaners,
wipes, sprays, etc. that their immune systems aren't developing the
antibodies that previous generations had. Lack of exposure to pathogens
at low levels means that their bodies aren't developing defenses against
them when they're inevitably exposed at higher doses. So they get sick.

Couple that with the virtual loss of kids going outside to play, and
it's even worse. No scratches that will get dirt in them. Fewer
exposures to friends with their own bacteria.

It all adds up to future generations being more sick that past ones.

> That is why you have an immune system - to deal with the potential
> pathogens. You need keep clean enough to reduce the numbers of the bad bugs
> to the point that the immune system can deal with them and to reduce toxins
> below harmful levels. Simply measures and common sense will achieve this.
> Yes you do need to sterilize things in some circumstances (when even a small
> number of bad bugs will get the time and conditions to grow to harmful
> levels) this is what brewing and preserving are all about. In normal
> cooking sterility is neither needed nor possible.
>
> Those routines taught by grandma or in home economics before the era of 1001
> perfumed sprays were actually pretty useful. So trust your nose and your
> life experience more and relax.
>
> There I feel better now.

Wanna swig of this...? Homemade. Bottled in an old wine bottle I shook
empty. All fizzy and all. Just give it a wipe with your sleeve.
Everybody else did...

Pastorio

Bob (this one) wrote:

> Actually, indications are that it's harming us as a species to kill
> all these germies.


The TV news health-segment doctor once said that so much use of the
antibacterial cleansers, could lead to super bacteria that would be
immune to the cleansers and far more dangerous to our health. Grain o'
salt stuff.

--
Andy

David Hare-Scott wrote:
> I have just been bombarded with a series of dopy advertisments on TV
> that together say: if you don't use this coloured stuff in your
> toilet, that spray on your benches, floors and almost every surface
> of your house, some perfume or insecticide in this dandy dispenser,
> and half a dozen other cleaning products, then you are a bad parent,
> you will be shunned by your neighbours and you and your family will
> die a lingering death of some disease mediated by green and purple
> monsters.
>
> Almost every day well meant questions are asked here along the lines:
>
> - w has been in the fridge for 3 days
> - x was out of the fridge for 2 minutes
> - y still has it's skin on
> - z was only washed once
> - I wish I had (a tiled floor, or whatever) so my kitchen can be
> really clean
> - etc etc
>
> what should I do, is it safe, and will this horrid lapse cause me
> illness, death or just eternal shame?
>
> We live in a micobiological soup of billions of organisms that occupy
> the air that we breath, the water that we drink and every object that
> we touch. Many of these bugs are pathogenic in the right
> circumsances. Your body is covered with them inside and out no matter
> how much stuff you put in your bath, or spray on to yourself or
> gargle, or the colour of your toilet water. The food that we eat and
> you and I are dirty from the day we are born to the day we die.
>
> Unless you are conducting surgery or are dealing with a person in poor
> health whose imune system is compromised all this fuss over super
> cleanliness is doing nothing but causing you worry and enriching
> vendors who know how to play on your fear and your desire to conform
> and 'do the right thing'. Use common sense cleanliness routines -
> wash your hands, wash your cooking equipment and so forth. Do these
> measures make you and your stuff really clean? No. Neither do all
> the bunkum products
>
> That is why you have an immune system - to deal with the potential
> pathogens. You need keep clean enough to reduce the numbers of the
> bad bugs to the point that the immune system can deal with them and
> to reduce toxins below harmful levels. Simply measures and common
> sense will achieve this. Yes you do need to sterilize things in some
> circumstances (when even a small number of bad bugs will get the time
> and conditions to grow to harmful levels) this is what brewing and
> preserving are all about. In normal cooking sterility is neither
> needed nor possible.
>
> Those routines taught by grandma or in home economics before the era
> of 1001 perfumed sprays were actually pretty useful. So trust your
> nose and your life experience more and relax.
>
> There I feel better now.
>
> David

Hear hear! (although I still want a floor drain to make washing the kitchen
floor easier!)

A long time ago I posted something about a former co-worker whose
grandmother would have lunch ready on the farm around 11AM and set it all on
the table. She just covered it with a cloth and left it there until the
'menfolk' came in from the fields to eat. It sat there for a couple of
hours; we're talking fried chicken or a pot of stew, biscuits (like scones
for those of you in the UK), beans, collard greens. It never killed anyone
in her family to eat it after it sat there unrefrigerated. Try to explain
this to some folks; they'd look at you like you're mad. I often leave food
sitting out and then reheat it later in the day. I'm still alive.

Aside from that, I don't want the water in my toilet to be blue. <G>

Jill

In article >,
"David Hare-Scott" > wrote:
(snippage)

> below harmful levels. Simply measures and common sense will achieve this.
> Yes you do need to sterilize things in some circumstances (when even a small
> number of bad bugs will get the time and conditions to grow to harmful
> levels) this is what brewing and preserving are all about. In normal
> cooking sterility is neither needed nor possible.
>
> Those routines taught by grandma or in home economics before the era of 1001
> perfumed sprays were actually pretty useful. So trust your nose and your
> life experience more and relax.
>
> There I feel better now.
>
> David

Haven't you noticed the shortage of common sense lately, David?
--
http://www.jamlady.eboard.com, updated 11-9-05 finishing in four
parts the trip report from our vacation time in San Francisco
for Nephew Pat's wedding last weekend.

David Hare-Scott wrote:
>
> I have just been bombarded with a series of dopy advertisments on TV that
> together say: if you don't use this coloured stuff in your toilet, that
> spray on your benches, floors and almost every surface of your house, some
> perfume or insecticide in this dandy dispenser, and half a dozen other
> cleaning products, then you are a bad parent, you will be shunned by your
> neighbours and you and your family will die a lingering death of some
> disease mediated by green and purple monsters.
>
> Almost every day well meant questions are asked here along the lines:
>
> - w has been in the fridge for 3 days
> - x was out of the fridge for 2 minutes
> - y still has it's skin on
> - z was only washed once
> - I wish I had (a tiled floor, or whatever) so my kitchen can be really
> clean
> - etc etc
>
> what should I do, is it safe, and will this horrid lapse cause me illness,
> death or just eternal shame?
>
> We live in a micobiological soup of billions of organisms that occupy the
> air that we breath, the water that we drink and every object that we touch.
> Many of these bugs are pathogenic in the right circumsances. Your body is
> covered with them inside and out no matter how much stuff you put in your
> bath, or spray on to yourself or gargle, or the colour of your toilet water.
> The food that we eat and you and I are dirty from the day we are born to the
> day we die.
>
> Unless you are conducting surgery or are dealing with a person in poor
> health whose imune system is compromised all this fuss over super
> cleanliness is doing nothing but causing you worry and enriching vendors who
> know how to play on your fear and your desire to conform and 'do the right
> thing'. Use common sense cleanliness routines - wash your hands, wash your
> cooking equipment and so forth. Do these measures make you and your stuff
> really clean? No. Neither do all the bunkum products
>
> That is why you have an immune system - to deal with the potential
> pathogens. You need keep clean enough to reduce the numbers of the bad bugs
> to the point that the immune system can deal with them and to reduce toxins
> below harmful levels. Simply measures and common sense will achieve this.
> Yes you do need to sterilize things in some circumstances (when even a small
> number of bad bugs will get the time and conditions to grow to harmful
> levels) this is what brewing and preserving are all about. In normal
> cooking sterility is neither needed nor possible.
>
> Those routines taught by grandma or in home economics before the era of 1001
> perfumed sprays were actually pretty useful. So trust your nose and your
> life experience more and relax.
>
> There I feel better now.
>
> David

Indeed. I don't go insane sanitizing my kitchen floor because I don't
cook on it. The floor does of course get regular vacuuming and periodic
washing. I don't care if my cat walks on my kitchen counters either.
Before a start preparing food on any of the surfaces I wipe it down with
Clorox Cleanup which I rather like. I wash my hands frequently when
handling raw fish or meats of course and also wash the surfaces those
items have contacted.

Even if I didn't sanitize the counters before preparing food there is
little to no chance I'd have any problem as the small number of bacteria
that a steak would pick up while I was seasoning in would not have time
to multiply to any problematic level before the steak was on the grill
or under the broiler.

It makes little difference what contaminated surface food touches in the
minutes before it is cooked. It only matters if it is contaminated and
then allowed to sit so that the bacteria have time to multiply. Cross
contamination of food that will not be cooked i.e. some vegetables, is a
far greater threat.

Pete C.

>
> Those routines taught by grandma or in home economics before the era of 1001
> perfumed sprays were actually pretty useful. So trust your nose and your
> life experience more and relax.
>
> There I feel better now.
>
> David

When I cook chicken etc. I put a squirt of chlorine bleach in my
dish water. Wipe the counters,etc. that came into contact with the raw
poultry, and other raw meats, and wash the dishes and utensils in the
sink. That's it for me. The sanitizing wipes for the kitchen only add
to the landfill. Sharon

"jmcquown" > wrote in message
. ..
> David Hare-Scott wrote:
>> I have just been bombarded with a series of dopy advertisments on TV
>> that together say: if you don't use this coloured stuff in your
>> toilet, that spray on your benches, floors and almost every surface
>> of your house, some perfume or insecticide in this dandy dispenser,
>> and half a dozen other cleaning products, then you are a bad parent,
>> you will be shunned by your neighbours and you and your family will
>> die a lingering death of some disease mediated by green and purple
>> monsters.
>>
>> Almost every day well meant questions are asked here along the lines:
>>
>> - w has been in the fridge for 3 days
>> - x was out of the fridge for 2 minutes
>> - y still has it's skin on
>> - z was only washed once
>> - I wish I had (a tiled floor, or whatever) so my kitchen can be
>> really clean
>> - etc etc
>>
>> what should I do, is it safe, and will this horrid lapse cause me
>> illness, death or just eternal shame?
>>
>> We live in a micobiological soup of billions of organisms that occupy
>> the air that we breath, the water that we drink and every object that
>> we touch. Many of these bugs are pathogenic in the right
>> circumsances. Your body is covered with them inside and out no matter
>> how much stuff you put in your bath, or spray on to yourself or
>> gargle, or the colour of your toilet water. The food that we eat and
>> you and I are dirty from the day we are born to the day we die.
>>
>> Unless you are conducting surgery or are dealing with a person in poor
>> health whose imune system is compromised all this fuss over super
>> cleanliness is doing nothing but causing you worry and enriching
>> vendors who know how to play on your fear and your desire to conform
>> and 'do the right thing'. Use common sense cleanliness routines -
>> wash your hands, wash your cooking equipment and so forth. Do these
>> measures make you and your stuff really clean? No. Neither do all
>> the bunkum products
>>
>> That is why you have an immune system - to deal with the potential
>> pathogens. You need keep clean enough to reduce the numbers of the
>> bad bugs to the point that the immune system can deal with them and
>> to reduce toxins below harmful levels. Simply measures and common
>> sense will achieve this. Yes you do need to sterilize things in some
>> circumstances (when even a small number of bad bugs will get the time
>> and conditions to grow to harmful levels) this is what brewing and
>> preserving are all about. In normal cooking sterility is neither
>> needed nor possible.
>>
>> Those routines taught by grandma or in home economics before the era
>> of 1001 perfumed sprays were actually pretty useful. So trust your
>> nose and your life experience more and relax.
>>
>> There I feel better now.
>>
>> David
>
> Hear hear! (although I still want a floor drain to make washing the
> kitchen
> floor easier!)

lol, I thought I was the only person that wanted a floor drain in my
kitchen!

>
> A long time ago I posted something about a former co-worker whose
> grandmother would have lunch ready on the farm around 11AM and set it all
> on
> the table. She just covered it with a cloth and left it there until the
> 'menfolk' came in from the fields to eat. It sat there for a couple of
> hours; we're talking fried chicken or a pot of stew, biscuits (like scones
> for those of you in the UK), beans, collard greens. It never killed
> anyone
> in her family to eat it after it sat there unrefrigerated. Try to explain
> this to some folks; they'd look at you like you're mad. I often leave
> food
> sitting out and then reheat it later in the day. I'm still alive.
>
> Aside from that, I don't want the water in my toilet to be blue. <G>
>
> Jill
>
>

Knit Chic wrote:
> "jmcquown" > wrote in message
> . ..
>> David Hare-Scott wrote:
>>> I have just been bombarded with a series of dopy advertisments on TV
>>> that together say: if you don't use this coloured stuff in your
>>> toilet, that spray on your benches, floors and almost every surface
>>> of your house, some perfume or insecticide in this dandy dispenser,
>>> and half a dozen other cleaning products, then you are a bad parent,
>>> you will be shunned by your neighbours and you and your family will
>>> die a lingering death of some disease mediated by green and purple
>>> monsters.
>>>
>>> Those routines taught by grandma or in home economics before the era
>>> of 1001 perfumed sprays were actually pretty useful. So trust your
>>> nose and your life experience more and relax.
>>>
>>> There I feel better now.
>>>
>>> David
>>
>> Hear hear! (although I still want a floor drain to make washing the
>> kitchen
>> floor easier!)
>
> lol, I thought I was the only person that wanted a floor drain in my
> kitchen!
>
Had one in the rather huge kitchen when I lived in Bangkok. It made washing
the slate floor easier. Of course, I wasn't the one washing the floor, I
was just a kid. But I've always thought it was very sensible!

Jill

David Hairy-Dreck TROLLED:
>
> Almost every day well meant questions are asked here along the lines:
>
> - w has been in the fridge for 3 days
> - x was out of the fridge for 2 minutes
> - y still has it's skin on
> - z was only washed once
> - I wish I had (a tiled floor, or whatever) so my kitchen can be really
> clean - etc etc
>
> what should I do, is it safe, and will this horrid lapse cause me illness,
> death or just eternal shame?

Relax! Those ads are aimed at the euros in general and the french and
'talians in particular, to bathe and shave ... so they don't look and
stink like monkey house muslims.

Hiya, TROLL!


Sheldon Palmolive

"jmcquown" > wrote in message
. ..
> Knit Chic wrote:
>> "jmcquown" > wrote in message
>>> Hear hear! (although I still want a floor drain to make washing the
>>> kitchen
>>> floor easier!)
>>
>> lol, I thought I was the only person that wanted a floor drain in my
>> kitchen!
>>
> Had one in the rather huge kitchen when I lived in Bangkok. It made
> washing
> the slate floor easier. Of course, I wasn't the one washing the floor, I
> was just a kid. But I've always thought it was very sensible!
>
> Jill
>

I used to work in a bar that had floor drains in both bathrooms. We ran a
hose straight off the hot water heater and used a garden sprayer on the end.
I could scrub both bathrooms down including the walls in about 15 minutes
each. The only way to go.

Ms P

jmcquown wrote:

> Hear hear! (although I still want a floor drain to make washing the kitchen
> floor easier!)

When we remodelled our kitchen floor my wife wanted ceramic tile because of ease
of cleaning. We selected a light colour, and when the store called to tell us it
was unavailable I went in an picked chose an even light, almost eggshell colour
tile. Yes, it was much easier to clean than the old linoleum floor, and that's
a good thing because it has to be done so often. Every single thing that falls
on that floor is obvious. One trip across that floor by either of the two
canines leaves foot prints and hair that we never saw with the old tile.


> A long time ago I posted something about a former co-worker whose
> grandmother would have lunch ready on the farm around 11AM and set it all on
> the table. She just covered it with a cloth and left it there until the
> 'menfolk' came in from the fields to eat. It sat there for a couple of
> hours; we're talking fried chicken or a pot of stew, biscuits (like scones
> for those of you in the UK), beans, collard greens. It never killed anyone
> in her family to eat it after it sat there unrefrigerated. Try to explain
> this to some folks; they'd look at you like you're mad. I often leave food
> sitting out and then reheat it later in the day. I'm still alive.

You've never had a good dose of food poisoning have you.
I have. It certainly makes me think twice about some food hygiene issues. Many
of the illnesses that people call stomach flu are mild cases of food poisoning.

>
>
> Aside from that, I don't want the water in my toilet to be blue. <G>
>
> Jill

"jmcquown" > wrote in message
. ..
> Knit Chic wrote:
>> "jmcquown" > wrote in message
>> . ..
>>> David Hare-Scott wrote:
>>>> I have just been bombarded with a series of dopy advertisments on TV
>>>> that together say: if you don't use this coloured stuff in your
>>>> toilet, that spray on your benches, floors and almost every surface
>>>> of your house, some perfume or insecticide in this dandy dispenser,
>>>> and half a dozen other cleaning products, then you are a bad parent,
>>>> you will be shunned by your neighbours and you and your family will
>>>> die a lingering death of some disease mediated by green and purple
>>>> monsters.
>>>>
>>>> Those routines taught by grandma or in home economics before the era
>>>> of 1001 perfumed sprays were actually pretty useful. So trust your
>>>> nose and your life experience more and relax.
>>>>
>>>> There I feel better now.
>>>>
>>>> David
>>>
>>> Hear hear! (although I still want a floor drain to make washing the
>>> kitchen
>>> floor easier!)
>>
>> lol, I thought I was the only person that wanted a floor drain in my
>> kitchen!
>>
> Had one in the rather huge kitchen when I lived in Bangkok. It made
> washing
> the slate floor easier. Of course, I wasn't the one washing the floor, I
> was just a kid. But I've always thought it was very sensible!
>
> Jill
>
I was a tourist in Singapore and visited a large tourist/local outside
eating area, similar to a food-court. It was sooo clean. They chloroxed
down the floors often and wiped the tables often. They said there was not
one fly (and I didn't see any) in the court/food/yard. This was OUTSIDE,
not like our fast-food restaurants which would be so easy in this regard to
control the flies. When I've asked why there are so many flies, I get an
answer that pesticides are not good for people.

I've heard there are no birds in Shanghai, either. I forget the reason for
this. (No spitting either) Some say that a certain U.S. state's bird is the
fly.
Dee Dee

ms_peacock wrote:

>
> I used to work in a bar that had floor drains in both bathrooms. We ran a
> hose straight off the hot water heater and used a garden sprayer on the end.
> I could scrub both bathrooms down including the walls in about 15 minutes
> each. The only way to go.

They sound like the bathroom in some of the hotel rooms where I stayed in
Denmark. They had terrazzo floors with a raised lip around the shower area, and
a wrap around shower curtain that didn't quite reach the floor. I left a nice
dry towel on the floor where I could reach it easily after my shower only to
discover that the entire floor got wet, along with the towel.

"ms_peacock" > wrote in message
...
>
> "jmcquown" > wrote in message
> . ..
>> Knit Chic wrote:
>>> "jmcquown" > wrote in message
>>>> Hear hear! (although I still want a floor drain to make washing the
>>>> kitchen
>>>> floor easier!)
>>>
>>> lol, I thought I was the only person that wanted a floor drain in my
>>> kitchen!
>>>
>> Had one in the rather huge kitchen when I lived in Bangkok. It made
>> washing
>> the slate floor easier. Of course, I wasn't the one washing the floor, I
>> was just a kid. But I've always thought it was very sensible!
>>
>> Jill
>>
>
> I used to work in a bar that had floor drains in both bathrooms. We ran a
> hose straight off the hot water heater and used a garden sprayer on the
> end. I could scrub both bathrooms down including the walls in about 15
> minutes each. The only way to go.
>
> Ms P
After being out all day shopping using various bathrooms, I always take my
shoes (and pants) off at the door. Who wants to wipe shoes onto rugs. I
rarely see a public bathroom that doesn't have pee-pee on their floor. What
a smell after a while, wiping off the bottom of shoes onto carpets and rugs
at home.
Dee Dee

Bob (this one) wrote:
> David Hare-Scott wrote:
> > I have just been bombarded with a series of dopy advertisments on TV that
> > together say: if you don't use this coloured stuff in your toilet, that
> > spray on your benches, floors and almost every surface of your house, some
> > perfume or insecticide in this dandy dispenser, and half a dozen other
> > cleaning products, then you are a bad parent, you will be shunned by your
> > neighbours and you and your family will die a lingering death of some
> > disease mediated by green and purple monsters.
> >
> > Almost every day well meant questions are asked here along the lines:
> >
> > - w has been in the fridge for 3 days
> > - x was out of the fridge for 2 minutes
> > - y still has it's skin on
> > - z was only washed once
> > - I wish I had (a tiled floor, or whatever) so my kitchen can be really
> > clean
> > - etc etc
> >
> > what should I do, is it safe, and will this horrid lapse cause me illness,
> > death or just eternal shame?
> >
> > We live in a micobiological soup of billions of organisms that occupy the
> > air that we breath, the water that we drink and every object that we touch.
> > Many of these bugs are pathogenic in the right circumsances. Your body is
> > covered with them inside and out no matter how much stuff you put in your
> > bath, or spray on to yourself or gargle, or the colour of your toilet water.
> > The food that we eat and you and I are dirty from the day we are born to the
> > day we die.
> >
> > Unless you are conducting surgery or are dealing with a person in poor
> > health whose imune system is compromised all this fuss over super
> > cleanliness is doing nothing but causing you worry and enriching vendors who
> > know how to play on your fear and your desire to conform and 'do the right
> > thing'. Use common sense cleanliness routines - wash your hands, wash your
> > cooking equipment and so forth. Do these measures make you and your stuff
> > really clean? No. Neither do all the bunkum products
>
> Actually, indications are that it's harming us as a species to kill all
> these germies.
>
> Kids today are so often belabored with anti-bacterial soaps, cleaners,
> wipes, sprays, etc. that their immune systems aren't developing the
> antibodies that previous generations had. Lack of exposure to pathogens
> at low levels means that their bodies aren't developing defenses against
> them when they're inevitably exposed at higher doses. So they get sick.

I have also read that this drive toward sterility is responsible for
the sharp rise in asthma among children. (Guardian)

By protecting children against common bugs, the immune system is
unable to develop the antibodies needed to fight off pathogens that
cause or exacerbate the disease. These antibodies need to be devolped
within the first year of life. If not, the immune system is actuallly
weakened, increasing the likelihood of asthma.

It seems every kid I see has an inhaler these days.

Of course, dirty air and the chemicals that go into making our carpets,
etc...probably play a greater part.

Indoor pollution, I think it's called.
>
> Couple that with the virtual loss of kids going outside to play, and
> it's even worse. No scratches that will get dirt in them. Fewer
> exposures to friends with their own bacteria.
>
> It all adds up to future generations being more sick that past ones.
>
> > That is why you have an immune system - to deal with the potential
> > pathogens. You need keep clean enough to reduce the numbers of the bad bugs
> > to the point that the immune system can deal with them and to reduce toxins
> > below harmful levels. Simply measures and common sense will achieve this.
> > Yes you do need to sterilize things in some circumstances (when even a small
> > number of bad bugs will get the time and conditions to grow to harmful
> > levels) this is what brewing and preserving are all about. In normal
> > cooking sterility is neither needed nor possible.
> >
> > Those routines taught by grandma or in home economics before the era of 1001
> > perfumed sprays were actually pretty useful. So trust your nose and your
> > life experience more and relax.
> >
> > There I feel better now.
>
> Wanna swig of this...? Homemade. Bottled in an old wine bottle I shook
> empty. All fizzy and all. Just give it a wipe with your sleeve.
> Everybody else did...
>
> Pastorio

"Knit Chic" > wrote

> lol, I thought I was the only person that wanted a floor drain in my
> kitchen!

I wanted one in my bathroom, the contractor looked at me
like I'd just spit out an eyeball, then laughed, deciding, apparently,
that I was joking. Oh well, I probably wouldn't have wanted to
pay for that anyway. Little complicated.

nancy

>> A long time ago I posted something about a former co-worker whose
>> grandmother would have lunch ready on the farm around 11AM and set
>> it all on the table. She just covered it with a cloth and left it
>> there until the 'menfolk' came in from the fields to eat. It sat
>> there for a couple of hours; we're talking fried chicken or a pot of
>> stew, biscuits (like scones for those of you in the UK), beans,
>> collard greens. It never killed anyone in her family to eat it
>> after it sat there unrefrigerated. Try to explain this to some
>> folks; they'd look at you like you're mad. I often leave food
>> sitting out and then reheat it later in the day. I'm still alive.
>
> You've never had a good dose of food poisoning have you.
> I have. It certainly makes me think twice about some food hygiene
> issues. Many of the illnesses that people call stomach flu are mild
> cases of food poisoning.
>
au contraire! Caught myself a nice case of Hepatitis B from a restaurant
once. Much worse than your standard upchuck and runs food poisoning, let me
tell you. I was out from work for a week - went back to find my telephone
had been disinfected and shoved in my desk drawer lest anyone touch it if it
rang! Never mind the fact that HepB isn't an airborne or viral infection.
It was tainted meat in a burger. A day or so after I found out I had it a
piece ran on the news about this particular restaurant and the lack of
sanitary conditions; even the workers (who apparently caused it) were ill.

Jill

Dee Randall wrote:


> After being out all day shopping using various bathrooms, I always take my
> shoes (and pants) off at the door. Who wants to wipe shoes onto rugs. I
> rarely see a public bathroom that doesn't have pee-pee on their floor. What
> a smell after a while, wiping off the bottom of shoes onto carpets and rugs
> at home.
> Dee Dee
>
>
I have no problems with taking shoes off- minimizing the dirt and
such.... But I do wonder how you figure the bottom of your shoes would
still be carrying pee on 'em after walking around for hours longer?
Don't you think the pee had been abrased off by the time you got home?
Just an observation.

jmcquown wrote:


> au contraire! Caught myself a nice case of Hepatitis B from a restaurant
> once. Much worse than your standard upchuck and runs food poisoning, let me
> tell you. I was out from work for a week - went back to find my telephone
> had been disinfected and shoved in my desk drawer lest anyone touch it if it
> rang! Never mind the fact that HepB isn't an airborne or viral infection.
> It was tainted meat in a burger. A day or so after I found out I had it a
> piece ran on the news about this particular restaurant and the lack of
> sanitary conditions; even the workers (who apparently caused it) were ill.
>
> Jill
>
You're thinking Hepatitis A, which is contracted via iffy foods and from
the fecal-oral route. People can recover from Hep A. Vaccines are
available only for Hep A.
Hep B is transmitted via body fluids.

Goomba38 wrote:
> jmcquown wrote:
>
>
>> au contraire! Caught myself a nice case of Hepatitis B from a
>> restaurant once. Much worse than your standard upchuck and runs
>> food poisoning, let me tell you. I was out from work for a week -
>> went back to find my telephone had been disinfected and shoved in my
>> desk drawer lest anyone touch it if it rang! Never mind the fact
>> that HepB isn't an airborne or viral infection. It was tainted meat
>> in a burger. A day or so after I found out I had it a piece ran on
>> the news about this particular restaurant and the lack of sanitary
>> conditions; even the workers (who apparently caused it) were ill.
>>
>> Jill
>>
> You're thinking Hepatitis A, which is contracted via iffy foods and
> from the fecal-oral route. People can recover from Hep A. Vaccines
> are
> available only for Hep A.
> Hep B is transmitted via body fluids.

These were workers who didn't wash their hands after using the bathroom.
Body fluids, then handled food... I don't really want think about it.

Jill

jmcquown wrote:

> These were workers who didn't wash their hands after using the bathroom.
> Body fluids, then handled food... I don't really want think about it.
>
> Jill
>
So you still carry Hep B or did you go through the often year long
miserable treatment with interferon and all that?

"Goomba38" > wrote in message
...
> Dee Randall wrote:
>
>
>> After being out all day shopping using various bathrooms, I always take
>> my shoes (and pants) off at the door. Who wants to wipe shoes onto rugs.
>> I rarely see a public bathroom that doesn't have pee-pee on their floor.
>> What a smell after a while, wiping off the bottom of shoes onto carpets
>> and rugs at home.
>> Dee Dee
> I have no problems with taking shoes off- minimizing the dirt and such....
> But I do wonder how you figure the bottom of your shoes would still be
> carrying pee on 'em after walking around for hours longer? Don't you think
> the pee had been abrased off by the time you got home?
> Just an observation.

Nope, not unless I walked thru a puddle of soap. I wouldn't have much shoe
left if it abrased off the sole everytime I left the house, but that's not
the point for me; I have a nose for pee.
Pee Dee

Dee Randall wrote:
> [snip]
> I have a nose for pee.
> Pee Dee

In another thread I wrote, "Taste as you go. Single best piece of
advice there is for cooking." Now I have to amend that: Taste and
sniff as you go.... -aem

"Knit Chic" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> "jmcquown" > wrote in message
> . ..
>> Hear hear! (although I still want a floor drain to make washing the
>> kitchen
>> floor easier!)
>
> lol, I thought I was the only person that wanted a floor drain in my
> kitchen!

I used to work in my residence cafeteria while at university. I remember
the room where the dishes were cleaned to put in the dishwashers had subway
tiles almost all the way up the walls and ceramic tile on the floor. Room
was cleaned by hosing down and squeegeeing to the central drain. THAT'S
what I want in my kitchen.

Gabby

> wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> I have also read that this drive toward sterility is responsible for
> the sharp rise in asthma among children. (Guardian)
>
> By protecting children against common bugs, the immune system is
> unable to develop the antibodies needed to fight off pathogens that
> cause or exacerbate the disease. These antibodies need to be devolped
> within the first year of life. If not, the immune system is actuallly
> weakened, increasing the likelihood of asthma.
>
> It seems every kid I see has an inhaler these days.

Part of the reason is also that today the diagnosis is "asthma" where 20
years ago it would have been "bronchitis" or "bronchiolitis". My daughter
went at least 2 years before a doctor actually said "asthma".

Gabby

On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 04:13:25 -0500, Bob (this one) wrote:


>
>Wanna swig of this...? Homemade. Bottled in an old wine bottle I shook
>empty. All fizzy and all. Just give it a wipe with your sleeve.
>Everybody else did...
>
>Pastorio

Was that you Bob. I was wondering who was sneaking around my sti... ah
equipment shed.

Goomba38 wrote:
> jmcquown wrote:
>
>> These were workers who didn't wash their hands after using the
>> bathroom. Body fluids, then handled food... I don't really want
>> think about it.
>>
>> Jill
>>
> So you still carry Hep B or did you go through the often year long
> miserable treatment with interferon and all that?

I stand corrected... it was HepA. Sorry!

Jill

David Hare-Scott wrote:

> Unless you are conducting surgery or are dealing with a person in poor
> health whose imune system is compromised all this fuss over super
> cleanliness is doing nothing but causing you worry and enriching vendors who
> know how to play on your fear and your desire to conform and 'do the right
> thing'. Use common sense cleanliness routines - wash your hands, wash your
> cooking equipment and so forth. Do these measures make you and your stuff
> really clean? No. Neither do all the bunkum products.


I certainly hope this rant isn't saying that keeping hands and cooking
equipment clean is useless and on par with bunkum products. It sounds
like it there for a moment.


I wonder if part of the reason for overboard in sanitizing everything in
the kitchen comes from the way so many of us learn about cooking from
first jobs in fast food or other restaurants instead of at home. In
restaurants, it does make sense to keep everything cleaner because the
restaurant never knows if it is serving one of those people in poor
health or with a compromised immune system, someone very young or very
elderly.


In general, I agree with the rant, but it doesn't distinguish between
those cleanliness routines that do make sense (frequent hand washing
especially after using the bathroom, hot foods hot and cold foods cold
especially as regards stocks and raw seafood and raw poultry, wash
dishtowels and sponges frequently) and those that don't make much
difference (disinfecting floors, using anti-bacterial soap, special
products for washing fruits and vegetables).


--Lia

On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 10:00:35 -0500, Dave Smith
> wrote:


>When we remodelled our kitchen floor my wife wanted ceramic tile because of ease
>of cleaning. We selected a light colour, and when the store called to tell us it
>was unavailable I went in an picked chose an even light, almost eggshell colour
>tile. Yes, it was much easier to clean than the old linoleum floor, and that's
>a good thing because it has to be done so often. Every single thing that falls
>on that floor is obvious. One trip across that floor by either of the two
>canines leaves foot prints and hair that we never saw with the old tile.

Two big black dogs and one cat, here. We just went from brown/grey
patterned linoleum to off-white stuff. *BIG* incentive to swiffer the
floor every day.

Jo Anne

On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 08:53:04 -0500, biig > wrote:

> When I cook chicken etc. I put a squirt of chlorine bleach in my
>dish water. Wipe the counters,etc. that came into contact with the raw
>poultry, and other raw meats, and wash the dishes and utensils in the
>sink. That's it for me. The sanitizing wipes for the kitchen only add
>to the landfill. Sharon

I use the Lysol bleach with cleanser stuff. Squirt it on the counters
and just use your dishcloth to wipe up.

Was it here I read that you should keep two squirt bottles - one of
vinegar and one of peroxide - and use those together to sanitize
kitchen surfaces?

Jo Anne

On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 14:25:53 -0500, Goomba38 >
wrote:

>You're thinking Hepatitis A, which is contracted via iffy foods and from
> the fecal-oral route. People can recover from Hep A. Vaccines are
>available only for Hep A.
>Hep B is transmitted via body fluids.

There is a hepatitis B vaccine. It is part of the recommended
vaccine schedule for babies in the US.

Tara

Tara wrote:


> There is a hepatitis B vaccine. It is part of the recommended
> vaccine schedule for babies in the US.
>
> Tara

Yes, you're absolutely right! I know this as I've gone through the
series for B a few times, lol and have my Hep A vaccine also (ugh).
I was *thinking* about the Hep C being one without vaccine, but typed B
as that was what Jill was talking about having.
Thanks for the correction.

Jo Anne Slaven wrote:

> >When we remodelled our kitchen floor my wife wanted ceramic tile because of ease
> >of cleaning. We selected a light colour, and when the store called to tell us it
> >was unavailable I went in an picked chose an even light, almost eggshell colour
> >tile. Yes, it was much easier to clean than the old linoleum floor, and that's
> >a good thing because it has to be done so often. Every single thing that falls
> >on that floor is obvious. One trip across that floor by either of the two
> >canines leaves foot prints and hair that we never saw with the old tile.
>
> Two big black dogs and one cat, here. We just went from brown/grey
> patterned linoleum to off-white stuff. *BIG* incentive to swiffer the
> floor every day.

Just once? I leave the central vac hose plugged in and scoot around the corners and
under the chairs almost every time I walk through the kitchen. About 95% of the stuff
in the vacuum canister is long black dog fur. If they weren't such lovable mutts I
would get rid of them.

Pan Ohco wrote:
> On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 04:13:25 -0500, Bob (this one) wrote:
>
>>Wanna swig of this...? Homemade. Bottled in an old wine bottle I shook
>>empty. All fizzy and all. Just give it a wipe with your sleeve.
>>Everybody else did...
>
> Was that you Bob. I was wondering who was sneaking around my sti... ah
> equipment shed.

<LOL> It wasn't me and I won't do it again.

Pastorio

Jo Anne Slaven wrote:
> On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 08:53:04 -0500, biig > wrote:
>
>
>> When I cook chicken etc. I put a squirt of chlorine bleach in my
>>dish water. Wipe the counters,etc. that came into contact with the raw
>>poultry, and other raw meats, and wash the dishes and utensils in the
>>sink. That's it for me. The sanitizing wipes for the kitchen only add
>>to the landfill. Sharon
>
> I use the Lysol bleach with cleanser stuff. Squirt it on the counters
> and just use your dishcloth to wipe up.
>
> Was it here I read that you should keep two squirt bottles - one of
> vinegar and one of peroxide - and use those together to sanitize
> kitchen surfaces?

Yep. Does a better job than a bleach solution.

Pastorio

Dave Smith wrote:

> Just once? I leave the central vac hose plugged in and scoot around the corners and
> under the chairs almost every time I walk through the kitchen. About 95% of the stuff
> in the vacuum canister is long black dog fur. If they weren't such lovable mutts I
> would get rid of them.

i wonder if one of those 'rumba' or whatever those little round
'robotic' continous vacs would be good for you.

"Goomba38" > wrote in message
...
> Dave Smith wrote:
>
>> Just once? I leave the central vac hose plugged in and scoot around the
>> corners and
>> under the chairs almost every time I walk through the kitchen. About 95%
>> of the stuff
>> in the vacuum canister is long black dog fur. If they weren't such
>> lovable mutts I
>> would get rid of them.
>
> i wonder if one of those 'rumba' or whatever those little round 'robotic'
> continous vacs would be good for you.

You have to wonder, how much 'stuff' can they hold? They say,
set it to run every day at 1, well, you do have to empty it, don't you?

nancy

Nancy Young wrote on 20 Nov 2005 in rec.food.cooking

> You have to wonder, how much 'stuff' can they hold? They say,
> set it to run every day at 1, well, you do have to empty it, don't you?
>
> nancy
>

They use a dust cloth somewhat like a swiffer uses.

--
The eyes are the mirrors....
But the ears...Ah the ears.
The ears keep the hat up.