FDR wrote:
>
> "Pete C." > wrote in message
> ...
> > FDR wrote:
> >>
> >> "Pete C." > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> > FDR wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> "Edwin Pawlowski" > wrote in message
> >> >> . ..
> >> >> >
> >> >> > "Del Cecchi" > wrote in message
> >> >> >
> >> >> >>> What makes you say that? They'd rate the Honda Civic better than
> >> >> >>> a
> >> >> >>> Lamborghini because it has longer intervals between tuneups.
> >> >> >> Why not? By any rational standard the Honda Civic is superior to a
> >> >> >> Lamborghini. The Lamborghini excels in driving very fast and
> >> >> >> looking
> >> >> >> good.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > But you don't buy a Lambo for practical reasons. CR thinks we should
> >> >> > all
> >> >> > drive Honda or similar autos.
> >> >>
> >> >> People that buy CR mag buy it for the practicality/value info. If
> >> >> you're
> >> >> into a Lambo then you'll be buying a gearhead type mag.
> >> >
> >> > CR does not contain (valid) practicality/value info. Their "findings"
> >> > are distorted, biased and not in any way based on valid scientific
> >> > testing or analysis.
> >> >
> >> > Pete C.
> >>
> >> Hey, I read them and don't agree with them many times, but what do you
> >> exactly think they should do that would meet your standard of testing?
> >> AS
> >> for cars, like many reviews they are opinions.
> >
> > I've read enough of them to decide that they provide little or no
> > information that is of value to me.
> >
> >> Firm ride, small back seats,
> >> cheap plastic knobs aren't something you need to do a scientific analysis
> >> of.
> >
> > Actually all three can indeed have more valid analysis done.
> >
> > Firm ride relative to what exactly? An average car would be mush
> > compared to a high end sport model, but that same car would be firm
> > compared to some "luxury" mush model.
>
> I think firm is quite self explanatory.

I think it can be tested more objectively.

>
> >
> > Small back seats for whom? A pro football player? An average teenager?
>
> It's usually followed by the saying only a child could sit in the rear with
> any comfort, ala the Camaro.

For cars like that, the back seat is most suitable for small rodents.

>
> >
> > Cheap plastic knobs? What defines a cheap plastic knob vs. a non-cheap
> > plastic knob? Last time I looked I saw virtually no non-plastic knobs on
> > any car regardless of price (in the "sane" range, I didn't look at
> > "exotics").
>
> You surely can tell the difference in feel between a luxury plastic knob and
> something on a cheap car. I think you're being particularly picky about
> these points that I would find self-evident.

What might this difference in feel be? ABS feels like ABS whether in a
Hyundai or a Mercedes.

>
> >
> >> Reliability ratings are another thing entirely, since it's up to the
> >> consumer to provide feedback on problems.
> >
> > The best source for reliability information is warranty claim data.
> > Outside of warranty period it's very difficult to get good data on a
> > large enough sample to be valid.
>
> Do all or most car companies bother to provide this information to a
> magazine?

Not to an magazine with the reputation of CM, however the Powers stuff
is largely based on this data.

>
> >
> >> To do any scientific analysis
> >> would require that they gather x number of cars, drive them y number of
> >> miles, and i z number of conditions. Highly impractical. Motorweek
> >> tests
> >> one car over 15000 miles but that's nowhere scientific either.
> >
> > They don't need to test each one themselves, a formal reporting
> > arrangement with consumers would work. They would need to track each
> > vehicle from purchase to either a loss/sale/end of test period.
>
> Isn't that what they basically do now? Send surveys out and create a
> database.

A survey not the same as formal tracking from purchase to loss/sale/end,
tracking based on the submission of invoice copies, not just comments.

Pete C.

"Edwin Pawlowski" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> "Del Cecchi" > wrote in message
>
>>> What makes you say that? They'd rate the Honda Civic better than a
>>> Lamborghini because it has longer intervals between tuneups.
>> Why not? By any rational standard the Honda Civic is superior to a
>> Lamborghini. The Lamborghini excels in driving very fast and looking
>> good.
>
> But you don't buy a Lambo for practical reasons. CR thinks we should
> all drive Honda or similar autos.
>
Calling a Lambo and a Honda both "automobiles" is stretching the
definition. A deuce and a half would make a terrible choice as a family
car, but it makes a hell of a vehicle for delivering relief supplies in a
flood. Consumer reports uses criteria that relate to average person and
their use. So cars that foul plugs or don't start in the winter or can't
carry the groceries are down rated relative to those that can, whether or
not they have real walnut on the dash or can go 200 mph.

I hear the same complaints from the computer geeks every time CR tests
computers, and from the audiophiles when they test speakers.

del

In article .com>,
says...
>
> Pete C. wrote:
> >
> >
> > Cheap plastic knobs? What defines a cheap plastic knob vs. a non-cheap
> > plastic knob? Last time I looked I saw virtually no non-plastic knobs on
> > any car regardless of price (in the "sane" range, I didn't look at
> > "exotics").
>
> Then you haven't been to California. There most of the high end cars
> are driven by exotic females with plastic knobs.
>
> Sheldon

The thing about plastics is that they'll outgas within a decade or so
leaving a chalky surface. Ewwwww.

Tony P. wrote:
> In article .com>,
> says...
> >
> > Pete C. wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Cheap plastic knobs? What defines a cheap plastic knob vs. a non-cheap
> > > plastic knob? Last time I looked I saw virtually no non-plastic knobs on
> > > any car regardless of price (in the "sane" range, I didn't look at
> > > "exotics").
> >
> > Then you haven't been to California. There most of the high end cars
> > are driven by exotic females with plastic knobs.
> >
> > Sheldon
>
> The thing about plastics is that they'll outgas within a decade or so
> leaving a chalky surface. Ewwwww.

Massaging daily with coco lopez keeps knobs young.

On Sat, 1 Oct 2005 16:01:24 -0400, Tony P.
> wrote:

>The thing about plastics is that they'll outgas within a decade or so
>leaving a chalky surface. Ewwwww.

Howdy,

In my experience, that depends on the quality...

I have a Mercedes wagon for nearly 18 years and on the day
that it went off to another happy life the interior looked
and felt as it did on the day I bought it.

All the best,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

"Del Cecchi" > wrote in message
...
>

>>
> Calling a Lambo and a Honda both "automobiles" is stretching the
> definition. A deuce and a half would make a terrible choice as a family
> car, but it makes a hell of a vehicle for delivering relief supplies in a
> flood. Consumer reports uses criteria that relate to average person and
> their use. So cars that foul plugs or don't start in the winter or can't
> carry the groceries are down rated relative to those that can, whether or
> not they have real walnut on the dash or can go 200 mph.

I exaggerated to make a point, but the reality is the same. CR often down
products because it does not fit their agenda. If you know up front what
their agenda is, you can use the other information they provide.

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
> "Del Cecchi" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>
>>Calling a Lambo and a Honda both "automobiles" is stretching the
>>definition. A deuce and a half would make a terrible choice as a family
>>car, but it makes a hell of a vehicle for delivering relief supplies in a
>>flood. Consumer reports uses criteria that relate to average person and
>>their use. So cars that foul plugs or don't start in the winter or can't
>>carry the groceries are down rated relative to those that can, whether or
>>not they have real walnut on the dash or can go 200 mph.
>
>
> I exaggerated to make a point, but the reality is the same. CR often down
> products because it does not fit their agenda. If you know up front what
> their agenda is, you can use the other information they provide.
>

It;s not like they go out of their way to hide their criteria. It's
usually explained in one or two paragraphs of the article.

Matthew

--
Thermodynamics and/or Golf for dummies: There is a game
You can't win
You can't break even
You can't get out of the game

What happened to stoves? I still don't understand why one has to be
Mario to cook well on a Viking commercial-style stove. Or with copper.
I got my first copper pots and was ecstatic at the difference they
made.

Bliss