On 5/2/2018 9:33 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:

>
> The funny thing is, a lot of people who are comparatively well off
> are not averse to social programs, and a lot of people who use those
> social programs continually vote for politicians to vow to lower
> taxes.
>
> Cindy Hamilton
>

I don't think many are adverse to them, but are adverse to waste and the
easy ability for cheating. Helping a disabled person is OK, but there
is a percentage of able bodied people than manage to scam the system.

I've seen people working for a temp agency, getting paid in case, while
collecting benefits. There has been some crackdown on that.

I don't mind paying some gas tax to maintain the roads. I do mind when
the governor took some of that money to use for other items.

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>
>> The funny thing is, a lot of people who are comparatively well off
>> are not averse to social programs, and a lot of people who use those
>> social programs continually vote for politicians to vow to lower
>> taxes.
>
>I don't think many are adverse to them, but are adverse to waste and the
>easy ability for cheating. Helping a disabled person is OK, but there
>is a percentage of able bodied people than manage to scam the system.
>
>I've seen people working for a temp agency, getting paid in case, while
>collecting benefits. There has been some crackdown on that.
>
>I don't mind paying some gas tax to maintain the roads. I do mind when
>the governor took some of that money to use for other items.

Adding insult to injury there are many on the public dole who make big
bucks working off the books.

wrote:
>
> Adding insult to injury there are many on the public dole who make big
> bucks working off the books.

The underground economy is (and has always been) huge. If your
money has no paper trail, so many just don't report it. Can't
blame them since politicians just seem to waste it all anyway and
if they need more, simply raise taxes.

On 2018-05-02 10:27 AM, Gary wrote:
> wrote:
>>
>> Adding insult to injury there are many on the public dole who make big
>> bucks working off the books.
>
> The underground economy is (and has always been) huge. If your
> money has no paper trail, so many just don't report it. Can't
> blame them since politicians just seem to waste it all anyway and
> if they need more, simply raise taxes.
>
How about the wealthy who hide their money offshore and EVADE taxes?

On Wed, 2 May 2018 13:01:53 -0600, graham > wrote:

>On 2018-05-02 10:27 AM, Gary wrote:
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Adding insult to injury there are many on the public dole who make big
>>> bucks working off the books.
>>
>> The underground economy is (and has always been) huge. If your
>> money has no paper trail, so many just don't report it. Can't
>> blame them since politicians just seem to waste it all anyway and
>> if they need more, simply raise taxes.
>>
>How about the wealthy who hide their money offshore and EVADE taxes?

thank you. That is the difference between hundreds or thousands of
dollars and millions and millions.
Janet US

On 5/2/2018 3:56 PM, U.S. Janet B. wrote:
> On Wed, 2 May 2018 13:01:53 -0600, graham > wrote:
>
>> On 2018-05-02 10:27 AM, Gary wrote:
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Adding insult to injury there are many on the public dole who make big
>>>> bucks working off the books.
>>>
>>> The underground economy is (and has always been) huge. If your
>>> money has no paper trail, so many just don't report it. Can't
>>> blame them since politicians just seem to waste it all anyway and
>>> if they need more, simply raise taxes.
>>>
>> How about the wealthy who hide their money offshore and EVADE taxes?
>
> thank you. That is the difference between hundreds or thousands of
> dollars and millions and millions.
> Janet US
>
Exactly. I don't personally know, nor do I think I've ever met, anyone
who was so wealthy as to need offshore accounts.

I always hesitate to get into discussions about Trump. But he does
happen to fall into that category when it comes to wealth. I'm not
saying he has offshore accounts, although it certainly wouldn't surprise
me. I do have to wonder how much he could possibly know (or actually
care) about social programs. He's never had to be "on the dole". He's
never had to worry if he could afford to see a doctor. His father was a
successful real estate developer. The Donald came from money and made a
hell of a lot more of it. We all know he doesn't listen to his advisors
(he fires them as fast as he hires them) so I cringe when I hear him
trying to discuss such issues. Mostly I try to avoid listening to him.

Jill

On 2018-05-02 3:01 PM, graham wrote:
> On 2018-05-02 10:27 AM, Gary wrote:
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Adding insult to injury there are many on the public dole who make big
>>> bucks working off the books.
>>
>> The underground economy is (and has always been) huge. If your
>> money has no paper trail, so many just don't report it. Can't
>> blame them since politicians just seem to waste it all anyway and
>> if they need more, simply raise taxes.
>>
> How about the wealthy who hide their money offshore and EVADE taxes?

Like Turk and Caicos where the biggest business is tax shelter banking.
A few years back they were hit hard with a hurricane and asked Canada
for aid to clean up the mess. That would take tax money, perhaps as much
tax money as was not being paid to our government because it was being
hidden in their banks.

On Wed, 2 May 2018 17:33:16 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote:

>On 2018-05-02 3:01 PM, graham wrote:
>> On 2018-05-02 10:27 AM, Gary wrote:
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Adding insult to injury there are many on the public dole who make big
>>>> bucks working off the books.
>>>
>>> The underground economy is (and has always been) huge. If your
>>> money has no paper trail, so many just don't report it. Can't
>>> blame them since politicians just seem to waste it all anyway and
>>> if they need more, simply raise taxes.
>>>
>> How about the wealthy who hide their money offshore and EVADE taxes?
>
>Like Turk and Caicos where the biggest business is tax shelter banking.
>A few years back they were hit hard with a hurricane and asked Canada
>for aid to clean up the mess. That would take tax money, perhaps as much
>tax money as was not being paid to our government because it was being
>hidden in their banks.

Yes but a few years prior to that they asked to be part of NS and
sadly we turned them down.

In article >, graham >
wrote:

> On 2018-05-02 10:27 AM, Gary wrote:
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> Adding insult to injury there are many on the public dole who make big
> >> bucks working off the books.
> >
> > The underground economy is (and has always been) huge. If your
> > money has no paper trail, so many just don't report it. Can't
> > blame them since politicians just seem to waste it all anyway and
> > if they need more, simply raise taxes.
> >
> How about the wealthy who hide their money offshore and EVADE taxes?

Aspire to become one. Oh, wait, too late. And that motto was never
really a Canadian thing. It is/was uniquely American. There's nothing
like festering envy to drive a person to join a glob of disgruntlement.
Look inward.

[ObFood] A soupy ham shank 'n beans with buttered white bread

leo

Leonard Blaisdell wrote:

> In article >, graham >
> wrote:
>
> > On 2018-05-02 10:27 AM, Gary wrote:
> > > wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Adding insult to injury there are many on the public dole who make big
> > >> bucks working off the books.
> > >
> > > The underground economy is (and has always been) huge. If your
> > > money has no paper trail, so many just don't report it. Can't
> > > blame them since politicians just seem to waste it all anyway and
> > > if they need more, simply raise taxes.
> > >
> > How about the wealthy who hide their money offshore and EVADE taxes?
>
> Aspire to become one.


Yup...EXACTLY...graham and some others here simply don't understand a very simple economic concept, that *someone* has to possess wealth to *pay* for the stuff that a society needs. I'm happy as a clam that many are wealthier than I, in the end there is more money about, and a society functions better with more money. Otherwise you end up like the former soviet bloc, or present - day Cuba, the DPRK, or Venezuela...

As for graham's "wealthy who hide...", far more wealthy are kind and generous, too many to name. Just this past week, two major non-profits that I support that serve the at - need received MILLIONS from wealthy individuals, no strings attached. Their generosity will improve many lives - especially since these agencies are private, and don't have any WASTEFUL government tethers to gobble up the money; both run "lean and mean", this donated money means much to them.


Oh, wait, too late. And that motto was never
> really a Canadian thing. It is/was uniquely American. There's nothing
> like festering envy to drive a person to join a glob of disgruntlement.
> Look inward.


Liberals/socialist/communists FEED on envy, they want everyone to be as miserable and unhappy as they. Ever notice how MISERABLE they are, unable to find joy in the simplest of things...I mean, even on here, look at someone like Lucretia, constantly carping about others more successful in life than her. I'd like to introduce her to some people I know, lower income and/or immigrants, they are busy WORKING, their dreams, and especially their kids' dreams will come true...cuz' they WORK instead of complaining.


> [ObFood] A soupy ham shank 'n beans with buttered white bread


Well - deserved, enjoy!

--
Best
Greg

On 2018-05-02 8:10 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 5/2/2018 9:33 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>
>>
>> The funny thing is, a lot of people who are comparatively well off
>> are not averse to social programs, and a lot of people who use those
>> social programs continually vote for politicians to vow to lower
>> taxes.
>>
>> Cindy Hamilton
>>
>
> I don't think many are adverse to them, but are adverse to waste and the
> easy ability for cheating.Â* Helping a disabled person is OK, but there
> is a percentage of able bodied people than manage to scam the system.

There is always a small percentage that scam and no matter what you do,
there will always be some who will work around the system. That's life!

HOWEVER, think of all the wealthy who scam the tax system and bribe
politicians!!!!!! They are no different!

On Wed, 2 May 2018 10:10:03 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:

>On 5/2/2018 9:33 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>
>>
>> The funny thing is, a lot of people who are comparatively well off
>> are not averse to social programs, and a lot of people who use those
>> social programs continually vote for politicians to vow to lower
>> taxes.
>>
>> Cindy Hamilton
>>
>
>I don't think many are adverse to them, but are adverse to waste and the
>easy ability for cheating. Helping a disabled person is OK, but there
>is a percentage of able bodied people than manage to scam the system.
>
>I've seen people working for a temp agency, getting paid in case, while
>collecting benefits. There has been some crackdown on that.
>
>I don't mind paying some gas tax to maintain the roads. I do mind when
>the governor took some of that money to use for other items.

Let's be fair. There's always the mid to low level executive who
shows up for work on time each day. Smoozes a bit with the right
people, slings his suit jacket on the back of his chair (indicating
that he is somewhere in the building) and takes off for a day of golf.
It isn't simply lower class people that have a cheating mind set. They
learn well from those who wear better clothes and live in nicer
housing.
Everyone complains about the little guy who makes a few extra bucks
off the system and at the same time tolerate the rich guys ripping us
all off for millions and billions.
Janet US

On Wednesday, May 2, 2018 at 9:55:13 AM UTC-10, U.S. Janet B. wrote:
>
> Let's be fair. There's always the mid to low level executive who
> shows up for work on time each day. Smoozes a bit with the right
> people, slings his suit jacket on the back of his chair (indicating
> that he is somewhere in the building) and takes off for a day of golf.
> It isn't simply lower class people that have a cheating mind set. They
> learn well from those who wear better clothes and live in nicer
> housing.
> Everyone complains about the little guy who makes a few extra bucks
> off the system and at the same time tolerate the rich guys ripping us
> all off for millions and billions.
> Janet US

The rich guys steal so much money that your average Joe can't even understand the concept. They can't internalize the idea of how insignificant regular folks are seen by these rich guys.

Trump's plan all along was to work with Putin to make a shitload of dough by fixing things in Russia and America in their favor. All has not gone as they planned, but there are small victories along the way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXaX8DLN3xw

Oh yeah, that wall thing he wants to build? It's not about keeping people out. What it's about is making money for his pals and having poor stupid schmucks pay for it. Once again, America shoves a large one up its butthole. Of course, we deserve every inch of it. Americans should have more respect for themselves and stop shooting themselves in the foot.

On 2018-05-02 5:25 PM, dsi1 wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 2, 2018 at 9:55:13 AM UTC-10, U.S. Janet B. wrote:
>>
>> Let's be fair. There's always the mid to low level executive who
>> shows up for work on time each day. Smoozes a bit with the right
>> people, slings his suit jacket on the back of his chair
>> (indicating that he is somewhere in the building) and takes off for
>> a day of golf. It isn't simply lower class people that have a
>> cheating mind set. They learn well from those who wear better
>> clothes and live in nicer housing. Everyone complains about the
>> little guy who makes a few extra bucks off the system and at the
>> same time tolerate the rich guys ripping us all off for millions
>> and billions. Janet US
>
> The rich guys steal so much money that your average Joe can't even
> understand the concept. They can't internalize the idea of how
> insignificant regular folks are seen by these rich guys.

I know someone who got busted for a multi million dollar Ponzi scheme.
Her come on was smooth. She was looking for money for bridge financing
for almost finished condos whose developers were running low on
capital. Give her $5000 and in three months you get back $8000. It
sounded too good to be true but she sucked in enough people that they
figured she had screwed investors out of $14.5 million.

She got busted, plead guilty and sentenced to 5 years, which in Canadian
criminal justice years translates to about 8 months because that's how
long she served before she got paroled. She then got busted for parole
violation several times before she went back and severed two more years.
She was also ordered to pay $4.5 million restitution. She has been out
for about 5 years now, lives in a huge house, drives a Lexus, and has
not paid a penny of the restitution ordered.

Why rob a bank and do hard time when you can schmooze your way to
millions and a club fed prison?

On Wednesday, May 2, 2018 at 12:01:15 PM UTC-10, Dave Smith wrote:
>
> I know someone who got busted for a multi million dollar Ponzi scheme.
> Her come on was smooth. She was looking for money for bridge financing
> for almost finished condos whose developers were running low on
> capital. Give her $5000 and in three months you get back $8000. It
> sounded too good to be true but she sucked in enough people that they
> figured she had screwed investors out of $14.5 million.
>
> She got busted, plead guilty and sentenced to 5 years, which in Canadian
> criminal justice years translates to about 8 months because that's how
> long she served before she got paroled. She then got busted for parole
> violation several times before she went back and severed two more years.
> She was also ordered to pay $4.5 million restitution. She has been out
> for about 5 years now, lives in a huge house, drives a Lexus, and has
> not paid a penny of the restitution ordered.
>
> Why rob a bank and do hard time when you can schmooze your way to
> millions and a club fed prison?

You can't cure stupidity and greed. Old folks are prime targets for these scams. I don't have a clue about how to stop people from giving their life savings away. It's a major problem.

On 5/2/2018 3:55 PM, U.S. Janet B. wrote:
> On Wed, 2 May 2018 10:10:03 -0400, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>
>> On 5/2/2018 9:33 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> The funny thing is, a lot of people who are comparatively well off
>>> are not averse to social programs, and a lot of people who use those
>>> social programs continually vote for politicians to vow to lower
>>> taxes.
>>>
>>> Cindy Hamilton
>>>
>>
>> I don't think many are adverse to them, but are adverse to waste and the
>> easy ability for cheating. Helping a disabled person is OK, but there
>> is a percentage of able bodied people than manage to scam the system.
>>
>> I've seen people working for a temp agency, getting paid in case, while
>> collecting benefits. There has been some crackdown on that.
>>
>> I don't mind paying some gas tax to maintain the roads. I do mind when
>> the governor took some of that money to use for other items.
>
> Let's be fair. There's always the mid to low level executive who
> shows up for work on time each day. Smoozes a bit with the right
> people, slings his suit jacket on the back of his chair (indicating
> that he is somewhere in the building) and takes off for a day of golf.

No need to leave the jacket on the chair. Just have lots of off-site
meetings. They find ways to write off the business lunches. Wine
and dine a client then suggest a short round of golf.

The higher up muckety-mucks might organize executive "retreats"; long
weekends in a secluded yet idyllic place, ostensibly to discuss business
plans. In reality, a lot of good food and good times at a really
expensive resort. Maybe a little golf, tennis, swimming. Book a
massage for late afternoon before dinner. They write it off as a
business development expense. As long as someone takes a few notes at a
few "meetings" and produces a written agenda, it could be considered a
legitimate deduction.

> It isn't simply lower class people that have a cheating mind set. They
> learn well from those who wear better clothes and live in nicer
> housing.
> Everyone complains about the little guy who makes a few extra bucks
> off the system and at the same time tolerate the rich guys ripping us
> all off for millions and billions.
> Janet US
>
I certainly don't complain about the little guy making a few extra
bucks. But I figure there isn't much I can do about rich guys ripping
us off.

Jill