Here's the real time stuff from Snopes

http://www.snopes.com/2017/03/13/kel...rowave-spying/

Janet US

On Sunday, June 25, 2017 at 8:32:05 AM UTC-10, U.S. Janet B. wrote:
> Here's the real time stuff from Snopes
>
> http://www.snopes.com/2017/03/13/kel...rowave-spying/
>
> Janet US

The modern world is kinda scary for most of the posters on this newsgroup. How interesting is that? Very!

On Sun, 25 Jun 2017 12:31:55 -0600, U.S. Janet B. >
wrote:

>
>Here's the real time stuff from Snopes
>
>http://www.snopes.com/2017/03/13/kel...rowave-spying/
>
>Janet US

Nope, my microwave is too old but the avast email did not really
centre on microwaves. It was an interesting email in general but since
my stuff is old, no probs

On Sun, 25 Jun 2017 12:31:55 -0600, U.S. Janet B. >
wrote:

>
>Here's the real time stuff from Snopes
>
>http://www.snopes.com/2017/03/13/kel...rowave-spying/
>
>Janet US

This was the avast email = I think his explanation was interesting and
likewise his caution at the end. The microwave bit was just a jazzy
headline to the article.

Jas Dhaliwal, 27 April 2017

Dismissing IoT device threats in the “internet of everything” world is
easy. But privacy and personal data loss isn’t science fiction, so
don’t fall victim.

I confess, I am drawn to any device that promises to make my life
easier. My first experience with what we now call the Internet of
Things (IoT) was a few years ago, when I bought a number of
internet-connected lightbulbs. The feeling I had turning on my
bedroom lights with just a tap on my phone was nothing less than sheer
joy. I was hooked.

Over time, I introduced more connected devices into my home. My
thermostat now automatically adjusts the heating or cooling based on
the outside temperature. I can summon any song just by speaking into
the Wi-Fi speaker in my kitchen.

In short, I feel like I’m living in the house of the future, today!
These connected devices have made my life, and many people’s lives,
easier (and, let’s face it, cooler).

But nothing comes without a price. So how much are we paying for all
this convenience? Is it too much? And how much are we willing to pay?
Things are more vulnerable than we think

Most of us, even a tech-geek like me, dread having to update our
computers and phones. What we often forget, or don’t realize, is that
most software updates aren’t an inconvenience – they’re meant to help
us. Updates fix bugs in the software, including important security
holes, to protect our devices and our information. Despite the
inconvenience, regular updates aren’t just good, they’re vital. Think
of them as booster shots, developed to combat a constantly evolving
array of potential threats created by unscrupulous people who are very
motivated to “cyber” profit from others’ lack of diligence.

But in a world of connected everything, how easy – or available – will
these necessary updates be when they’re for toasters, or
refrigerators? If my future dream refrigerator will know when I’m low
on milk, apples, and mustard, then order them for me, using the credit
card in its memory, will its manufacturer and engineers be diligent
about ensuring hackers can’t simply reverse engineer the software,
find bugs, and exploit them? Will they have that level of security
expertise, and the resources to stay ahead of vulnerabilities that
could expose my personal information to thieves?

We could soon be living in homes that constantly collect knowledge
about everything we do – what we watch, what we eat, when we sleep,
how long we’re at home, what we talk about.

Precisely because connected device manufacturers know they cannot
provide this level of security, they tend to downplay the range of
possible privacy risks. We’ve all gotten a good laugh at the idea of a
“microwave spy,” and to be fair, this particular type of appliance is
(at least for now) rare. But really, what dangers could, say, a
connected printer and a connected refrigerator pose to each other, or
their owner?

Quite a few, as it turns out. And not minor ones.

Last fall, malware known as “Mirai” compromised IoT devices, such as
microwaves and house lights whose factory default usernames and
passwords were still stored in their memories. Unlike with most
computers, these embedded details are at worst permanently hard-coded
into the devices and at best not easily changed. Once it had infected
the devices, the Mirai malware instructed them to send a Distributed
Denial of Service (DDoS) attack against the internet, causing many
websites to be unavailable. In short, the malware exposed device data
and used it to remotely control them, right under their owners’ noses.
Does IoT stand for end of privacy?

As if having your “internet of everything” devices turned into
malicious cyber robots isn’t bad enough, you’d be utterly amazed to
discover the extent of your personal life and information hackers can
get their hands on through security monitors, music systems, and
document storage devices.

All this convenience doesn’t come for free. Vulnerable devices
open the door to hackers who want to steal the data from our devices
and sell it to the highest bidder.

Avast’s own researchers have found vulnerabilities that can be
exploited to give unauthorised access to baby monitors. As a quick
Google search on “strangers talking through baby monitors” shows,
security incidents involving these devices, in which strangers were
able to connect directly with children, are far from rare. Considering
these monitors were designed to give parents peace of mind, their
manipulation for such horrifying ends, if they aren’t secured
properly, is particularly ironic.

As more IoT devices enter the market and our homes, cars, offices, we
become more vulnerable to attack. The more connected devices out
there, the more possible attack vectors for intruders and thieves. We
could soon be living in homes that constantly collect knowledge about
everything we do – what we watch, what we eat, when we sleep, how long
we’re at home, what we talk about.

All this convenience doesn’t come for free. Vulnerable devices open
the door to hackers who want to steal the data from our devices and
sell it to the highest bidder. They increase the likelihood that
hackers could take over our cameras, garage door openers, alarm
systems – anything “smart.” Or how about ransomware? We’ve all heard
how it can infect computers. Now imagine it can be used to “lock”
access to every appliance or system in your home, unless you pay the
ransom. What recently seemed like science fiction isn’t so
far-fetched, anymore.
Top 5 steps for using IoT devices safely

While all these possibilities can be overwhelming, and threats – as
will devices – will continue to evolve, you can minimize potential
dangers while still enjoying the benefits of connected devices. Just
follow these few simple steps:

Read the terms and conditions. Yes, they can be tedious, but this
will help you understand what data the device will collect and how it
might be shared.
Go through the set-up process carefully. When installing a new
device in your home, take the time to understand which features are
enabled or disabled by default.
Change the default username and password. Choose something secure
that you’ll remember.
If the device has a software app, keep it updated on all your
devices. Find out if these updates also contain security updates. If
there is no way to update the device, consider that a red flag and
think twice about your purchase.
Invest in a home network security solution that can discover and
protect your smart devices. If one of your devices is ever
compromised, your network needs to be able to quarantine it to protect
the rest of your “smart” stuff .

Connected devices can be convenient, not to mention just plain cool.
But before buying or connecting one, consider the implications of how
they connect to the internet, how (and whether) their software is kept
updated, and what happens if the vendor stops supporting the product.
Don’t let your next dream convenience turn into a nightmare.

On Sunday, June 25, 2017 at 2:41:17 PM UTC-4, dsi1 wrote:
> On Sunday, June 25, 2017 at 8:32:05 AM UTC-10, U.S. Janet B. wrote:
> > Here's the real time stuff from Snopes
> >
> > http://www.snopes.com/2017/03/13/kel...rowave-spying/
> >
> > Janet US
>
> The modern world is kinda scary for most of the posters on this newsgroup. How interesting is that? Very!

I'm a computer programmer. The modern world is not scary just because
it's modern. I know all too well how porous security systems are.
I don't need my refrigerator talking to my cell phone. I consider it
to be "inadvisably applied technology".

Cindy Hamilton

On Sunday, June 25, 2017 at 9:58:27 AM UTC-10, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> On Sunday, June 25, 2017 at 2:41:17 PM UTC-4, dsi1 wrote:
> > On Sunday, June 25, 2017 at 8:32:05 AM UTC-10, U.S. Janet B. wrote:
> > > Here's the real time stuff from Snopes
> > >
> > > http://www.snopes.com/2017/03/13/kel...rowave-spying/
> > >
> > > Janet US
> >
> > The modern world is kinda scary for most of the posters on this newsgroup. How interesting is that? Very!
>
> I'm a computer programmer. The modern world is not scary just because
> it's modern. I know all too well how porous security systems are.
> I don't need my refrigerator talking to my cell phone. I consider it
> to be "inadvisably applied technology".
>
> Cindy Hamilton

You haven't really noticed what people are posting here. Think of the big picture not just yourself.

On Sun, 25 Jun 2017 12:58:24 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
> wrote:

>On Sunday, June 25, 2017 at 2:41:17 PM UTC-4, dsi1 wrote:
>> On Sunday, June 25, 2017 at 8:32:05 AM UTC-10, U.S. Janet B. wrote:
>> > Here's the real time stuff from Snopes
>> >
>> > http://www.snopes.com/2017/03/13/kel...rowave-spying/
>> >
>> > Janet US
>>
>> The modern world is kinda scary for most of the posters on this newsgroup. How interesting is that? Very!
>
>I'm a computer programmer. The modern world is not scary just because
>it's modern. I know all too well how porous security systems are.
>I don't need my refrigerator talking to my cell phone. I consider it
>to be "inadvisably applied technology".
>
>Cindy Hamilton

I felt the avast email was making that point and I totally agree.
Several years ago people had the 'if you're not doing anything
wrong...' attitude and see where that has got us! "inadvisably
applied technology' describes it to a T.

On 6/25/2017 2:41 PM, dsi1 wrote:

> The modern world is kinda scary for most of the posters on
> this newsgroup. How interesting is that? Very!

You like to say that but I never know what makes you
think that.

nancy

On Sunday, June 25, 2017 at 2:17:20 PM UTC-10, Nancy Young wrote:
> On 6/25/2017 2:41 PM, dsi1 wrote:
>
> > The modern world is kinda scary for most of the posters on
> > this newsgroup. How interesting is that? Very!
>
> You like to say that but I never know what makes you
> think that.
>
> nancy

Mostly it's the disdain of the new world. They deny smartphones, social media, web-based computing, web-based storage. They'll insist that the proper NG reader is one created during the dark ages of computers, they distrust Google and Google Groups, they just can't let go of their Windows operating systems but are afraid of Win10.

They believe that someone is interested in stealing their precious, precious, data/files. They don't want to release any information about themselves yet complain about not being able to access all that the web has to offer. In the new connected world, you don't get everything without giving up something. Don't even get me started on electric and self-driving cars!

On Sunday, June 25, 2017 at 4:05:45 PM UTC-4, dsi1 wrote:
> On Sunday, June 25, 2017 at 9:58:27 AM UTC-10, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> > On Sunday, June 25, 2017 at 2:41:17 PM UTC-4, dsi1 wrote:
> > > On Sunday, June 25, 2017 at 8:32:05 AM UTC-10, U.S. Janet B. wrote:
> > > > Here's the real time stuff from Snopes
> > > >
> > > > http://www.snopes.com/2017/03/13/kel...rowave-spying/
> > > >
> > > > Janet US
> > >
> > > The modern world is kinda scary for most of the posters on this newsgroup. How interesting is that? Very!
> >
> > I'm a computer programmer. The modern world is not scary just because
> > it's modern. I know all too well how porous security systems are.
> > I don't need my refrigerator talking to my cell phone. I consider it
> > to be "inadvisably applied technology".
> >
> > Cindy Hamilton
>
> You haven't really noticed what people are posting here. Think of the big picture not just yourself.

I can't speak for other people. I can only speak for myself.

You, on the other hand, think you can speak for others.

Cindy Hamilton

On Mon, 26 Jun 2017 03:16:24 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
> wrote:

>On Sunday, June 25, 2017 at 4:05:45 PM UTC-4, dsi1 wrote:
>> On Sunday, June 25, 2017 at 9:58:27 AM UTC-10, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>> > On Sunday, June 25, 2017 at 2:41:17 PM UTC-4, dsi1 wrote:
>> > > On Sunday, June 25, 2017 at 8:32:05 AM UTC-10, U.S. Janet B. wrote:
>> > > > Here's the real time stuff from Snopes
>> > > >
>> > > > http://www.snopes.com/2017/03/13/kel...rowave-spying/
>> > > >
>> > > > Janet US
>> > >
>> > > The modern world is kinda scary for most of the posters on this newsgroup. How interesting is that? Very!
>> >
>> > I'm a computer programmer. The modern world is not scary just because
>> > it's modern. I know all too well how porous security systems are.
>> > I don't need my refrigerator talking to my cell phone. I consider it
>> > to be "inadvisably applied technology".
>> >
>> > Cindy Hamilton
>>
>> You haven't really noticed what people are posting here. Think of the big picture not just yourself.
>
>I can't speak for other people. I can only speak for myself.
>
>You, on the other hand, think you can speak for others.

dsi1 speaks for entire continents.

On Monday, June 26, 2017 at 12:16:33 AM UTC-10, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> On Sunday, June 25, 2017 at 4:05:45 PM UTC-4, dsi1 wrote:
> > On Sunday, June 25, 2017 at 9:58:27 AM UTC-10, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> > > On Sunday, June 25, 2017 at 2:41:17 PM UTC-4, dsi1 wrote:
> > > > On Sunday, June 25, 2017 at 8:32:05 AM UTC-10, U.S. Janet B. wrote:
> > > > > Here's the real time stuff from Snopes
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.snopes.com/2017/03/13/kel...rowave-spying/
> > > > >
> > > > > Janet US
> > > >
> > > > The modern world is kinda scary for most of the posters on this newsgroup. How interesting is that? Very!
> > >
> > > I'm a computer programmer. The modern world is not scary just because
> > > it's modern. I know all too well how porous security systems are.
> > > I don't need my refrigerator talking to my cell phone. I consider it
> > > to be "inadvisably applied technology".
> > >
> > > Cindy Hamilton
> >
> > You haven't really noticed what people are posting here. Think of the big picture not just yourself.
>
> I can't speak for other people. I can only speak for myself.
>
> You, on the other hand, think you can speak for others.
>
> Cindy Hamilton

Obviously, I wasn't speaking about you.

On Monday, June 26, 2017 at 11:07:46 AM UTC-4, dsi1 wrote:
> On Monday, June 26, 2017 at 12:16:33 AM UTC-10, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> > On Sunday, June 25, 2017 at 4:05:45 PM UTC-4, dsi1 wrote:
> > > On Sunday, June 25, 2017 at 9:58:27 AM UTC-10, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> > > > On Sunday, June 25, 2017 at 2:41:17 PM UTC-4, dsi1 wrote:
> > > > > On Sunday, June 25, 2017 at 8:32:05 AM UTC-10, U.S. Janet B. wrote:
> > > > > > Here's the real time stuff from Snopes
> > > > > >
> > > > > > http://www.snopes.com/2017/03/13/kel...rowave-spying/
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Janet US
> > > > >
> > > > > The modern world is kinda scary for most of the posters on this newsgroup. How interesting is that? Very!
> > > >
> > > > I'm a computer programmer. The modern world is not scary just because
> > > > it's modern. I know all too well how porous security systems are.
> > > > I don't need my refrigerator talking to my cell phone. I consider it
> > > > to be "inadvisably applied technology".
> > > >
> > > > Cindy Hamilton
> > >
> > > You haven't really noticed what people are posting here. Think of the big picture not just yourself.
> >
> > I can't speak for other people. I can only speak for myself.
> >
> > You, on the other hand, think you can speak for others.
> >
> > Cindy Hamilton
>
> Obviously, I wasn't speaking about you.

I replied because I had recently said I would decommission any smart
device in my house. It seemed very much like you were speaking about
me, among others in this group.

Cindy Hamilton

On Monday, June 26, 2017 at 6:35:17 AM UTC-10, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> On Monday, June 26, 2017 at 11:07:46 AM UTC-4, dsi1 wrote:
> > On Monday, June 26, 2017 at 12:16:33 AM UTC-10, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> > > On Sunday, June 25, 2017 at 4:05:45 PM UTC-4, dsi1 wrote:
> > > > On Sunday, June 25, 2017 at 9:58:27 AM UTC-10, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> > > > > On Sunday, June 25, 2017 at 2:41:17 PM UTC-4, dsi1 wrote:
> > > > > > On Sunday, June 25, 2017 at 8:32:05 AM UTC-10, U.S. Janet B. wrote:
> > > > > > > Here's the real time stuff from Snopes
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > http://www.snopes.com/2017/03/13/kel...rowave-spying/
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Janet US
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The modern world is kinda scary for most of the posters on this newsgroup. How interesting is that? Very!
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm a computer programmer. The modern world is not scary just because
> > > > > it's modern. I know all too well how porous security systems are.
> > > > > I don't need my refrigerator talking to my cell phone. I consider it
> > > > > to be "inadvisably applied technology".
> > > > >
> > > > > Cindy Hamilton
> > > >
> > > > You haven't really noticed what people are posting here. Think of the big picture not just yourself.
> > >
> > > I can't speak for other people. I can only speak for myself.
> > >
> > > You, on the other hand, think you can speak for others.
> > >
> > > Cindy Hamilton
> >
> > Obviously, I wasn't speaking about you.
>
> I replied because I had recently said I would decommission any smart
> device in my house. It seemed very much like you were speaking about
> me, among others in this group.
>
> Cindy Hamilton

I simply said that most of the posters here find the modern world scary. Either you agree with that or you don't. This isn't about you or me.

In article >,
says...

> I simply said that most of the posters here find the modern world scary.
Either you agree with that or you don't. This isn't about you or me.
>
More to the point, it isn't about "most posters in this group".
The assertion they find the modern world scary is entirely imaginary,
your usual loudmouth invention.

Janet UK

On Monday, June 26, 2017 at 8:40:03 AM UTC-10, Janet wrote:
> In article >,
> dsi10ahoo.com says...
>
> > I simply said that most of the posters here find the modern world scary.
> Either you agree with that or you don't. This isn't about you or me.
> >
> More to the point, it isn't about "most posters in this group".
> The assertion they find the modern world scary is entirely imaginary,
> your usual loudmouth invention.
>
> Janet UK

This ain't about me. You only believe that it is.

"dsi1" > wrote in message news:6493986e-01a7-4f6d-9dd4-
I simply said that most of the posters here find the modern world scary.
Either you agree with that or you don't. This isn't about you or me.


Nothing scary about it, just don't need a lot of it.

Cheri

On Monday, June 26, 2017 at 8:05:36 PM UTC-10, Cheri wrote:
> "dsi1" <dsi1yahoo.com> wrote in message news:6493986e-01a7-4f6d-9dd4-
> I simply said that most of the posters here find the modern world scary.
> Either you agree with that or you don't. This isn't about you or me.
>
>
> Nothing scary about it, just don't need a lot of it.
>
> Cheri

A lot depends on your age. The millennials and later generations don't quite see it that way. These guys aren't hooked on Windows - they use iOS and Android for their computers.

On Tue, 27 Jun 2017 23:54:29 -0700 (PDT), dsi1 >
wrote:

>On Monday, June 26, 2017 at 8:05:36 PM UTC-10, Cheri wrote:
>> "dsi1" <dsi1yahoo.com> wrote in message news:6493986e-01a7-4f6d-9dd4-
>> I simply said that most of the posters here find the modern world scary.
>> Either you agree with that or you don't. This isn't about you or me.
>>
>>
>> Nothing scary about it, just don't need a lot of it.
>>
>> Cheri
>
>A lot depends on your age. The millennials and later generations don't quite see it that way. These guys aren't hooked on Windows - they use iOS and Android for their computers.

If I don't use Windows I'm unemployed, but I can live without iOS and
Android.

On Tuesday, June 27, 2017 at 9:49:07 PM UTC-10, Bruce wrote:
> On Tue, 27 Jun 2017 23:54:29 -0700 (PDT), dsi1 <dsi10yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> >On Monday, June 26, 2017 at 8:05:36 PM UTC-10, Cheri wrote:
> >> "dsi1" <dsi1yahoo.com> wrote in message news:6493986e-01a7-4f6d-9dd4-
> >> I simply said that most of the posters here find the modern world scary.
> >> Either you agree with that or you don't. This isn't about you or me.
> >>
> >>
> >> Nothing scary about it, just don't need a lot of it.
> >>
> >> Cheri
> >
> >A lot depends on your age. The millennials and later generations don't quite see it that way. These guys aren't hooked on Windows - they use iOS and Android for their computers.
>
> If I don't use Windows I'm unemployed, but I can live without iOS and
> Android.

It doesn't matter what you or I use. For the first time since the 80's, more people are using cell phone based OSes than Windows. Things are going as we have planned...

On Wed, 28 Jun 2017 00:54:33 -0700 (PDT), dsi1 >
wrote:

>On Tuesday, June 27, 2017 at 9:49:07 PM UTC-10, Bruce wrote:
>> On Tue, 27 Jun 2017 23:54:29 -0700 (PDT), dsi1 <dsi10yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >On Monday, June 26, 2017 at 8:05:36 PM UTC-10, Cheri wrote:
>> >> "dsi1" <dsi1yahoo.com> wrote in message news:6493986e-01a7-4f6d-9dd4-
>> >> I simply said that most of the posters here find the modern world scary.
>> >> Either you agree with that or you don't. This isn't about you or me.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Nothing scary about it, just don't need a lot of it.
>> >>
>> >> Cheri
>> >
>> >A lot depends on your age. The millennials and later generations don't quite see it that way. These guys aren't hooked on Windows - they use iOS and Android for their computers.
>>
>> If I don't use Windows I'm unemployed, but I can live without iOS and
>> Android.
>
>It doesn't matter what you or I use. For the first time since the 80's, more people are using cell phone based OSes than Windows. Things are going as we have planned...

To me it matters what I use. I also don't hate Windows. I use it like
a carpenter uses a hammer. I don't think many carpenters hate their
hammer.

On Tuesday, June 27, 2017 at 10:01:48 PM UTC-10, Bruce wrote:
> On Wed, 28 Jun 2017 00:54:33 -0700 (PDT), dsi1 <dsi1yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> >On Tuesday, June 27, 2017 at 9:49:07 PM UTC-10, Bruce wrote:
> >> On Tue, 27 Jun 2017 23:54:29 -0700 (PDT), dsi1 <dsi10yahoo.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On Monday, June 26, 2017 at 8:05:36 PM UTC-10, Cheri wrote:
> >> >> "dsi1" <dsi1yahoo.com> wrote in message news:6493986e-01a7-4f6d-9dd4-
> >> >> I simply said that most of the posters here find the modern world scary.
> >> >> Either you agree with that or you don't. This isn't about you or me.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Nothing scary about it, just don't need a lot of it.
> >> >>
> >> >> Cheri
> >> >
> >> >A lot depends on your age. The millennials and later generations don't quite see it that way. These guys aren't hooked on Windows - they use iOS and Android for their computers.
> >>
> >> If I don't use Windows I'm unemployed, but I can live without iOS and
> >> Android.
> >
> >It doesn't matter what you or I use. For the first time since the 80's, more people are using cell phone based OSes than Windows. Things are going as we have planned...
>
> To me it matters what I use. I also don't hate Windows. I use it like
> a carpenter uses a hammer. I don't think many carpenters hate their
> hammer.

I needed to program a device for a customer but forgot my shity Win7 laptop at home. Boy did I feel like a dick.

On Wednesday, June 28, 2017 at 2:54:36 AM UTC-4, dsi1 wrote:
> On Monday, June 26, 2017 at 8:05:36 PM UTC-10, Cheri wrote:
> > "dsi1" <dsi1yahoo.com> wrote in message news:6493986e-01a7-4f6d-9dd4-
> > I simply said that most of the posters here find the modern world scary.
> > Either you agree with that or you don't. This isn't about you or me.
> >
> >
> > Nothing scary about it, just don't need a lot of it.
> >
> > Cheri
>
> A lot depends on your age. The millennials and later generations don't quite see it that way. These guys aren't hooked on Windows - they use iOS and Android for their computers.

The millennials in my office favor Linux for the desktop. Seems to be
Android (which is Linux under the hood) for their phones. I haven't seen
any of them with a tablet, but that doesn't mean they don't have one.

I haven't asked what their stance on IoT at home might be. Maybe I'll
ask around. I anticipate good-natured contempt for an Internet-ready
refrigerator.

I prefer Unix on the desktop, and I'm not that fussy about what flavor
it is. As long as I can type commands in the shell, I'm happy. I don't care
what my phone and tablet run as long as it isn't Microsoft. As it happens,
they run iOS.

At home we use Winblows. I'm thinking about getting a second PC that I
can load with Linux, leaving the Windows box to my husband.

Cindy Hamilton

On Wednesday, June 28, 2017 at 4:01:48 AM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
> On Wed, 28 Jun 2017 00:54:33 -0700 (PDT), dsi1 >
> wrote:
>
> >On Tuesday, June 27, 2017 at 9:49:07 PM UTC-10, Bruce wrote:
> >> On Tue, 27 Jun 2017 23:54:29 -0700 (PDT), dsi1 <dsi10yahoo.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On Monday, June 26, 2017 at 8:05:36 PM UTC-10, Cheri wrote:
> >> >> "dsi1" <dsi1yahoo.com> wrote in message news:6493986e-01a7-4f6d-9dd4-
> >> >> I simply said that most of the posters here find the modern world scary.
> >> >> Either you agree with that or you don't. This isn't about you or me.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Nothing scary about it, just don't need a lot of it.
> >> >>
> >> >> Cheri
> >> >
> >> >A lot depends on your age. The millennials and later generations don't quite see it that way. These guys aren't hooked on Windows - they use iOS and Android for their computers.
> >>
> >> If I don't use Windows I'm unemployed, but I can live without iOS and
> >> Android.
> >
> >It doesn't matter what you or I use. For the first time since the 80's, more people are using cell phone based OSes than Windows. Things are going as we have planned...
>
> To me it matters what I use. I also don't hate Windows. I use it like
> a carpenter uses a hammer. I don't think many carpenters hate their
> hammer.

I use it like a carpenter uses an old, rusty handsaw. Reluctantly,
and only when a better tool isn't available. I hate the old, rusty
handsaw.

Cindy Hamilton

On Wed, 28 Jun 2017 03:17:56 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
> wrote:

>On Wednesday, June 28, 2017 at 2:54:36 AM UTC-4, dsi1 wrote:
>> On Monday, June 26, 2017 at 8:05:36 PM UTC-10, Cheri wrote:
>> > "dsi1" <dsi1yahoo.com> wrote in message news:6493986e-01a7-4f6d-9dd4-
>> > I simply said that most of the posters here find the modern world scary.
>> > Either you agree with that or you don't. This isn't about you or me.
>> >
>> >
>> > Nothing scary about it, just don't need a lot of it.
>> >
>> > Cheri
>>
>> A lot depends on your age. The millennials and later generations don't quite see it that way. These guys aren't hooked on Windows - they use iOS and Android for their computers.
>
>The millennials in my office favor Linux for the desktop. Seems to be
>Android (which is Linux under the hood) for their phones. I haven't seen
>any of them with a tablet, but that doesn't mean they don't have one.
>
>I haven't asked what their stance on IoT at home might be. Maybe I'll
>ask around. I anticipate good-natured contempt for an Internet-ready
>refrigerator.
>
>I prefer Unix on the desktop, and I'm not that fussy about what flavor
>it is. As long as I can type commands in the shell, I'm happy. I don't care
>what my phone and tablet run as long as it isn't Microsoft. As it happens,
>they run iOS.
>
>At home we use Winblows.

You're all complaining about it and putting it down but... you're
using it!

Weaklings!

On Wednesday, June 28, 2017 at 6:37:20 AM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
> On Wed, 28 Jun 2017 03:17:56 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
> > wrote:
>
> >On Wednesday, June 28, 2017 at 2:54:36 AM UTC-4, dsi1 wrote:
> >> On Monday, June 26, 2017 at 8:05:36 PM UTC-10, Cheri wrote:
> >> > "dsi1" <dsi1yahoo.com> wrote in message news:6493986e-01a7-4f6d-9dd4-
> >> > I simply said that most of the posters here find the modern world scary.
> >> > Either you agree with that or you don't. This isn't about you or me.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Nothing scary about it, just don't need a lot of it.
> >> >
> >> > Cheri
> >>
> >> A lot depends on your age. The millennials and later generations don't quite see it that way. These guys aren't hooked on Windows - they use iOS and Android for their computers.
> >
> >The millennials in my office favor Linux for the desktop. Seems to be
> >Android (which is Linux under the hood) for their phones. I haven't seen
> >any of them with a tablet, but that doesn't mean they don't have one.
> >
> >I haven't asked what their stance on IoT at home might be. Maybe I'll
> >ask around. I anticipate good-natured contempt for an Internet-ready
> >refrigerator.
> >
> >I prefer Unix on the desktop, and I'm not that fussy about what flavor
> >it is. As long as I can type commands in the shell, I'm happy. I don't care
> >what my phone and tablet run as long as it isn't Microsoft. As it happens,
> >they run iOS.
> >
> >At home we use Winblows.
>
> You're all complaining about it and putting it down but... you're
> using it!
>
> Weaklings!

You caught me. I can't stand up for myself. (Heh.)

My husband uses CAD software that isn't available anywhere
but Windows. At home, I surf the web and play solitaire, so I barely
care what OS we use. Doesn't mean I don't recognize Windows as a POS.

At work, I have to use what the company wants me to use, which is
a mix of Windows and a handful of Unixes (Unices?)

Cindy Hamilton

On Wed, 28 Jun 2017 03:48:34 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
> wrote:

>On Wednesday, June 28, 2017 at 6:37:20 AM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
>> On Wed, 28 Jun 2017 03:17:56 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >The millennials in my office favor Linux for the desktop. Seems to be
>> >Android (which is Linux under the hood) for their phones. I haven't seen
>> >any of them with a tablet, but that doesn't mean they don't have one.
>> >
>> >I haven't asked what their stance on IoT at home might be. Maybe I'll
>> >ask around. I anticipate good-natured contempt for an Internet-ready
>> >refrigerator.
>> >
>> >I prefer Unix on the desktop, and I'm not that fussy about what flavor
>> >it is. As long as I can type commands in the shell, I'm happy. I don't care
>> >what my phone and tablet run as long as it isn't Microsoft. As it happens,
>> >they run iOS.
>> >
>> >At home we use Winblows.
>>
>> You're all complaining about it and putting it down but... you're
>> using it!
>>
>> Weaklings!
>
>You caught me. I can't stand up for myself. (Heh.)
>
>My husband uses CAD software that isn't available anywhere
>but Windows. At home, I surf the web and play solitaire, so I barely
>care what OS we use. Doesn't mean I don't recognize Windows as a POS.
>
>At work, I have to use what the company wants me to use, which is
>a mix of Windows and a handful of Unixes (Unices?)

I would have been a Linux user if work didn't force me to use Windows.
I need to use all kinds of Windows based tools. It doesn't bother me.

On Wed, 28 Jun 2017 03:19:39 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
> wrote:

>On Wednesday, June 28, 2017 at 4:01:48 AM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
>> On Wed, 28 Jun 2017 00:54:33 -0700 (PDT), dsi1 >
>> wrote:
>>
>> >On Tuesday, June 27, 2017 at 9:49:07 PM UTC-10, Bruce wrote:
>> >> On Tue, 27 Jun 2017 23:54:29 -0700 (PDT), dsi1 <dsi10yahoo.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >On Monday, June 26, 2017 at 8:05:36 PM UTC-10, Cheri wrote:
>> >> >> "dsi1" <dsi1yahoo.com> wrote in message news:6493986e-01a7-4f6d-9dd4-
>> >> >> I simply said that most of the posters here find the modern world scary.
>> >> >> Either you agree with that or you don't. This isn't about you or me.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Nothing scary about it, just don't need a lot of it.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Cheri
>> >> >
>> >> >A lot depends on your age. The millennials and later generations don't quite see it that way. These guys aren't hooked on Windows - they use iOS and Android for their computers.
>> >>
>> >> If I don't use Windows I'm unemployed, but I can live without iOS and
>> >> Android.
>> >
>> >It doesn't matter what you or I use. For the first time since the 80's, more people are using cell phone based OSes than Windows. Things are going as we have planned...
>>
>> To me it matters what I use. I also don't hate Windows. I use it like
>> a carpenter uses a hammer. I don't think many carpenters hate their
>> hammer.
>
>I use it like a carpenter uses an old, rusty handsaw. Reluctantly,
>and only when a better tool isn't available. I hate the old, rusty
>handsaw.
>
>Cindy Hamilton

I use Windoze but I also love Android on my tablet and phone. I don't
do Apple anything do not like their proprietary attitude (same as
Sony) but then again why do they have a look alike Office etc. Don't
like their prices either and I see in yesterdays Guardian although
they are not yet coming clean about it there is a bug raiding their
systems, very difficult when you have always claimed it was impossible
- that alone must have read like a challenge to hackers

On 6/25/2017 2:50 PM, lucretia wrote:
> On Sun, 25 Jun 2017 12:31:55 -0600, U.S. Janet B. >
> wrote:
>
>>
>> Here's the real time stuff from Snopes
>>
>> http://www.snopes.com/2017/03/13/kel...rowave-spying/
>>
>> Janet US
>
> Nope, my microwave is too old but the avast email did not really
> centre on microwaves. It was an interesting email in general but since
> my stuff is old, no probs
>
The Avast email is merely a marketing tool to ramp up paranoia to get
customers to pay more for yet another layer of "security". Every time I
open a browser Avast warns "Anyone can see what you do online" and hopes
I'll pay them more money. Sorry, I don't care if this mysterious
"anyone" knows I'm watching silly cat videos.

Jill

On 6/25/2017 8:17 PM, Nancy Young wrote:
> On 6/25/2017 2:41 PM, dsi1 wrote:
>
>> The modern world is kinda scary for most of the posters on this
>> newsgroup. How interesting is that? Very!
>
> You like to say that but I never know what makes you
> think that.
>
> nancy

I suspect it's because we don't all want Google to take charge of
everything in our lives.

Jill

On 6/27/2017 2:04 AM, Cheri wrote:
> "dsi1" > wrote in message news:6493986e-01a7-4f6d-9dd4-
> I simply said that most of the posters here find the modern world scary.
> Either you agree with that or you don't. This isn't about you or me.
>
>
> Nothing scary about it, just don't need a lot of it.
>
> Cheri

Exactly, Cheri. I don't need everything to be connected. In this case
I'm talking about smart phones and "connected" appliances.

Why would I need to be able to turn the lights on (or off) in my house
via a phone? If I'm going out and I know it will be dark when I return,
I switch on a lamp before I leave. No need to turn on lights using an
app on a phone.

I recently saw a TV ad showing a teenage brother and sister driving home
in a car. Their parents called, did you do the laundry? They scrambled
on the phone, find the app! They turned on the washing machine via
their phone.

Yes, there is an app for that. IF your washing machine is "connected".

Sorry, but in what real life scenario does that fit? Gee, I forgot to
turn on the washer, must do it by phone!

Get real. They put the clothes in the washing machine. They
(hopefully) added detergent. Yet they didn't think to turn it on when
they were standing right there? Idiotic.

It's not scary technology. It's silly. Start the washing machine via a
phone. Really? Who does that?

Of course you have to pay more for all of this technology. More
breakable expensive parts, too. No thank you.

Jill

On 6/28/2017 6:56 AM, lucretia wrote:

>
> I use Windoze but I also love Android on my tablet and phone. I don't
> do Apple anything do not like their proprietary attitude (same as
> Sony) but then again why do they have a look alike Office etc. Don't
> like their prices either and I see in yesterdays Guardian although
> they are not yet coming clean about it there is a bug raiding their
> systems, very difficult when you have always claimed it was impossible
> - that alone must have read like a challenge to hackers
>

It is a matter of numbers. Apple had about 15% of the computer
business. Do you want to infect 85% or only 15% ? Hackers ego answered
that most of the time.

On 6/28/2017 6:48 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:

>>> At home we use Winblows.
>>
>> You're all complaining about it and putting it down but... you're
>> using it!
>>
>> Weaklings!
>
> You caught me. I can't stand up for myself. (Heh.)
>
> My husband uses CAD software that isn't available anywhere
> but Windows. At home, I surf the web and play solitaire, so I barely
> care what OS we use. Doesn't mean I don't recognize Windows as a POS.
>
> At work, I have to use what the company wants me to use, which is
> a mix of Windows and a handful of Unixes (Unices?)
>
> Cindy Hamilton
>

Most of us use Windows for the same reason. It does everything I need
and was already on the computer when I bought it. Are other OS better?
Don't know, I never used them and never had an incentive to try others. .

Why do you think it is a POS? Compared to other systems?

On 6/28/2017 8:17 AM, jmcquown wrote:
> On 6/25/2017 8:17 PM, Nancy Young wrote:
>> On 6/25/2017 2:41 PM, dsi1 wrote:
>>
>>> The modern world is kinda scary for most of the posters on this
>>> newsgroup. How interesting is that? Very!
>>
>> You like to say that but I never know what makes you
>> think that.
>>
>> nancy
>
> I suspect it's because we don't all want Google to take charge of
> everything in our lives.
>
> Jill

Did you see that Google was fined by the EU for favoring their own
shopping service? I think is is bogus to fine them. There are
alternative searches, we don't pay anything to use Google, and they are
not doing anything we'd not do. If your brother is a plumber and a
neighbor asked if you know a good plumber, what would you say?

On 2017-06-28 9:13 AM, jmcquown wrote:

> Exactly, Cheri. I don't need everything to be connected. In this case
> I'm talking about smart phones and "connected" appliances.
>
> Why would I need to be able to turn the lights on (or off) in my house
> via a phone? If I'm going out and I know it will be dark when I return,
> I switch on a lamp before I leave. No need to turn on lights using an
> app on a phone.

I can see that working as a security measure. Being able to turn lights
on and off remotely would give people the impression the house is not
empty. We have friends in Sweden who were quick to hook up the heating
and lighting at their summer house (winterized). It was about 90 miles
from their house to the weekend property. When they left their house
they would use to phone to remotely crank up the heat so it would be
nice and warm for them when they arrived.

>
> I recently saw a TV ad showing a teenage brother and sister driving home
> in a car. Their parents called, did you do the laundry? They scrambled
> on the phone, find the app! They turned on the washing machine via
> their phone.
>
> Yes, there is an app for that. IF your washing machine is "connected".

I have to wonder about that. I am lucky my wife does not want me to do
the laundry so I am not all that experienced these days, but I thought
they still have to be loaded and unloaded manually. From there is is
just a matter of adding detergent, closing the door and pushing a
button. Our washer has a start delay.

>


> Of course you have to pay more for all of this technology. More
> breakable expensive parts, too. No thank you.


Hopefully, that would be a function that, if broken, would not disable
the whole machine. We have appliances with applications we never use. I
don't think we have ever used the automatic start on our oven. I have
never used the delayed start on our washer. However.... they are likely
on a common circuit board or chip.

On 6/28/2017 9:43 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2017-06-28 9:13 AM, jmcquown wrote:
>
>> Exactly, Cheri. I don't need everything to be connected. In this
>> case I'm talking about smart phones and "connected" appliances.
>>
>> Why would I need to be able to turn the lights on (or off) in my house
>> via a phone? If I'm going out and I know it will be dark when I
>> return, I switch on a lamp before I leave. No need to turn on lights
>> using an app on a phone.
>
> I can see that working as a security measure. Being able to turn lights
> on and off remotely would give people the impression the house is not
> empty.

There are timers you can plug into wall sockets. They've been around
for decades. Plug in a lamp. The TV. Set the timer to turn on and
off. It's not new. I still have them in the closet for my next trip.
It's much cheaper than a smart phone. The only problem is if a light
bulb burns out. But hey, a Smart Phone can't change a light bulb,
either. LOL

> We have friends in Sweden who were quick to hook up the heating
> and lighting at their summer house (winterized). It was about 90 miles
> from their house to the weekend property. When they left their house
> they would use to phone to remotely crank up the heat so it would be
> nice and warm for them when they arrived.
>
Okay, but I wouldn't consider that something lots of people need to do.

Jill

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message ...

On 6/28/2017 8:17 AM, jmcquown wrote:
> On 6/25/2017 8:17 PM, Nancy Young wrote:
>> On 6/25/2017 2:41 PM, dsi1 wrote:
>>
>>> The modern world is kinda scary for most of the posters on this
>>> newsgroup. How interesting is that? Very!
>>
>> You like to say that but I never know what makes you
>> think that.
>>
>> nancy
>
> I suspect it's because we don't all want Google to take charge of
> everything in our lives.
>
> Jill

Did you see that Google was fined by the EU for favoring their own
shopping service? I think is is bogus to fine them. There are
alternative searches, we don't pay anything to use Google, and they are
not doing anything we'd not do. If your brother is a plumber and a
neighbor asked if you know a good plumber, what would you say?

==

That is going down big here. It seems the companies pay Google to put their
companies high on the search list.

Personally I don't care but apparently it is illegal.



--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk

On Wednesday, June 28, 2017 at 9:28:48 AM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 6/28/2017 6:48 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>
> >>> At home we use Winblows.
> >>
> >> You're all complaining about it and putting it down but... you're
> >> using it!
> >>
> >> Weaklings!
> >
> > You caught me. I can't stand up for myself. (Heh.)
> >
> > My husband uses CAD software that isn't available anywhere
> > but Windows. At home, I surf the web and play solitaire, so I barely
> > care what OS we use. Doesn't mean I don't recognize Windows as a POS.
> >
> > At work, I have to use what the company wants me to use, which is
> > a mix of Windows and a handful of Unixes (Unices?)
> >
> > Cindy Hamilton
> >
>
> Most of us use Windows for the same reason. It does everything I need
> and was already on the computer when I bought it. Are other OS better?
> Don't know, I never used them and never had an incentive to try others. .
>
> Why do you think it is a POS? Compared to other systems?

It's fine for civilians. It's really painful for a programmer
who is used to the power and simplicity of Unix. It's a resource
hog on the hardware; relatively speaking it takes an eternity to
run anything.

I'm not alone:

<https://www.marksanborn.net/software/10-reasons-why-i-hate-microsoft-windows/>
<http://www.zdnet.com/article/so-why-do-people-hate-windows/>
<http://www.pcworld.com/article/134819/article.html>

It's telling that PCworld magazine hates Microsoft.

Cindy Hamilton

On Wed, 28 Jun 2017 08:10:55 -0400, jmcquown >
wrote:

>On 6/25/2017 2:50 PM, lucretia wrote:
>> On Sun, 25 Jun 2017 12:31:55 -0600, U.S. Janet B. >
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Here's the real time stuff from Snopes
>>>
>>> http://www.snopes.com/2017/03/13/kel...rowave-spying/
>>>
>>> Janet US
>>
>> Nope, my microwave is too old but the avast email did not really
>> centre on microwaves. It was an interesting email in general but since
>> my stuff is old, no probs
>>
>The Avast email is merely a marketing tool to ramp up paranoia to get
>customers to pay more for yet another layer of "security". Every time I
>open a browser Avast warns "Anyone can see what you do online" and hopes
>I'll pay them more money. Sorry, I don't care if this mysterious
>"anyone" knows I'm watching silly cat videos.
>
>Jill

I didn't take that at all from the email. Of course they will
advertise but the email was informative and gave me pause for thought,
but I do care, even have camera eye taped over with duct tape. I used
to use avast but it was other aspects of it I didn't care for, so am
back to ccleaner and spybot.

On Wed, 28 Jun 2017 09:13:28 -0400, jmcquown >
wrote:

>On 6/27/2017 2:04 AM, Cheri wrote:
>> "dsi1" > wrote in message news:6493986e-01a7-4f6d-9dd4-
>> I simply said that most of the posters here find the modern world scary.
>> Either you agree with that or you don't. This isn't about you or me.
>>
>>
>> Nothing scary about it, just don't need a lot of it.
>>
>> Cheri
>
>Exactly, Cheri. I don't need everything to be connected. In this case
>I'm talking about smart phones and "connected" appliances.
>
>Why would I need to be able to turn the lights on (or off) in my house
>via a phone? If I'm going out and I know it will be dark when I return,
>I switch on a lamp before I leave. No need to turn on lights using an
>app on a phone.

Living in a house I might like to turn different lights on and off if
I was away, to make it appear I was not away.
>
>I recently saw a TV ad showing a teenage brother and sister driving home
>in a car. Their parents called, did you do the laundry? They scrambled
>on the phone, find the app! They turned on the washing machine via
>their phone.
>
>Yes, there is an app for that. IF your washing machine is "connected".
>
>Sorry, but in what real life scenario does that fit? Gee, I forgot to
>turn on the washer, must do it by phone!

There are many countries where running appliances in off peak hours
means a big saving on the power bill.
>
>Get real. They put the clothes in the washing machine. They
>(hopefully) added detergent. Yet they didn't think to turn it on when
>they were standing right there? Idiotic.

Not is they can have off peak hours
>
>It's not scary technology. It's silly. Start the washing machine via a
>phone. Really? Who does that?

Probably quite a few and maybe young parents going to work rushed off
their feet.
>
>Of course you have to pay more for all of this technology. More
>breakable expensive parts, too. No thank you.
>
>Jill

To the people who need/want it that's fine. However I felt the avast
email was more a warning to those people to have a little think about
the potential disadvantages/risks involved.