Since I don't interact with JB threads and most of the bonus puppets
have disappeared, I thought I'd post an article about actual cooking.
Scary, but true.

I jes combined these ingredients to start my starter:

50 grams stone ground whole-grain flour
50 grams unbleached all-purpose flour
100 grams warm tap water

<http://www.examiner.com/article/whole-wheat-sourdough-bread-part-i>

Is this a valid approach? Should I post ina baking group? If so,
which one? I'll even entertain responses from whatserface, Mz Bake
Expert. You know ....the one who gets all offended and calls me
Hitler.... or did I call her Hitler? I ferget.

Anyway, I jes saw a new 4 part episode about cooking and baking
(Cooked), with Michael Pollan waxing poetic about the miracle of
bread, so I thought I'd make me some. (I prefer beer, but it doesn't
lend itself to making a sammy, fer dammit!)

I realize this may come as a surprise to many of you, but this IS rfc
.....the "c" DOES stand fer "cooking". Seriously.

nb

On 29 Feb 2016 17:47:37 GMT, notbob > wrote:

>Since I don't interact with JB threads and most of the bonus puppets
>have disappeared, I thought I'd post an article about actual cooking.
>Scary, but true.
>
>I jes combined these ingredients to start my starter:
>
> 50 grams stone ground whole-grain flour
> 50 grams unbleached all-purpose flour
> 100 grams warm tap water
>
><http://www.examiner.com/article/whole-wheat-sourdough-bread-part-i>
>
>Is this a valid approach? Should I post ina baking group? If so,
>which one? I'll even entertain responses from whatserface, Mz Bake
>Expert. You know ....the one who gets all offended and calls me
>Hitler.... or did I call her Hitler? I ferget.
>
>Anyway, I jes saw a new 4 part episode about cooking and baking
>(Cooked), with Michael Pollan waxing poetic about the miracle of
>bread, so I thought I'd make me some. (I prefer beer, but it doesn't
>lend itself to making a sammy, fer dammit!)
>
>I realize this may come as a surprise to many of you, but this IS rfc
>....the "c" DOES stand fer "cooking". Seriously.
>
>nb

that's fine. Boron and Graham do a lot of sourdough. I have one
starter that I abuse. For safety I get it foaming really good and
then spread a large smear out on plastic wrap and let it dry. When
dry I crunch it up, wrap in a small baggie, put in a tightly sealed
jar and store it in the freezer. This process makes it safe for
another year. When I want some again I take a bit of the frozen
flakes and add to flour and water and in a day or so my starter is
active again. Good Luck
Janet US

On 2016-02-29, Janet B > wrote:

> On 29 Feb 2016 17:47:37 GMT, notbob > wrote:

>>Is this a valid approach?

> that's fine. Boron and Graham do a lot of sourdough.

That's who I was trying to recall, Boron. Thnx.

> I have one starter that I abuse. For safety I get it foaming really
> good and then spread a large smear out on plastic wrap and let it
> dry. When dry I crunch it up, wrap in a small baggie, put in a
> tightly sealed jar and store it in the freezer. This process makes
> it safe for another year. When I want some again I take a bit of
> the frozen flakes and add to flour and water and in a day or so my
> starter is active again.

Ooh ooh!.... Great idea, Janet. I hate the thought of throwing most
of the starter in the trash or feeding it, daily. You method sounds
like a great solution to that problem. Again, thank you.

nb



Good Luck Janet US

On 29/02/2016 11:15 AM, notbob wrote:
> On 2016-02-29, Janet B > wrote:
>
>> On 29 Feb 2016 17:47:37 GMT, notbob > wrote:
>
>>> Is this a valid approach?
>
>> that's fine. Boron and Graham do a lot of sourdough.
>
> That's who I was trying to recall, Boron. Thnx.
>
>> I have one starter that I abuse. For safety I get it foaming really
>> good and then spread a large smear out on plastic wrap and let it
>> dry. When dry I crunch it up, wrap in a small baggie, put in a
>> tightly sealed jar and store it in the freezer. This process makes
>> it safe for another year. When I want some again I take a bit of
>> the frozen flakes and add to flour and water and in a day or so my
>> starter is active again.
>
> Ooh ooh!.... Great idea, Janet. I hate the thought of throwing most
> of the starter in the trash or feeding it, daily. You method sounds
> like a great solution to that problem. Again, thank you.
>
Further to my other post, rather than discarding excess starter when
you refresh it, add it to the mix of a conventional yeasted loaf.
Graham

On Monday, February 29, 2016 at 10:23:05 AM UTC-8, graham wrote:
> On 29/02/2016 11:15 AM, notbob wrote:
> > On 2016-02-29, Janet B > wrote:
> >
> >> On 29 Feb 2016 17:47:37 GMT, notbob > wrote:
> >
> >>> Is this a valid approach?
> >
> >> that's fine. Boron and Graham do a lot of sourdough.
> >
> > That's who I was trying to recall, Boron. Thnx.
> >
> >> I have one starter that I abuse. For safety I get it foaming really
> >> good and then spread a large smear out on plastic wrap and let it
> >> dry. When dry I crunch it up, wrap in a small baggie, put in a
> >> tightly sealed jar and store it in the freezer. This process makes
> >> it safe for another year. When I want some again I take a bit of
> >> the frozen flakes and add to flour and water and in a day or so my
> >> starter is active again.
> >
> > Ooh ooh!.... Great idea, Janet. I hate the thought of throwing most
> > of the starter in the trash or feeding it, daily. You method sounds
> > like a great solution to that problem. Again, thank you.
> >
> Further to my other post, rather than discarding excess starter when
> you refresh it, add it to the mix of a conventional yeasted loaf.
> Graham

I never throw away discard. I put it in a mason jar and keep in the fridge. Don't want to waste that flavor when it can be used in a lot of things.

On 2016-02-29, ImStillMags > wrote:

> I never throw away discard. I put it in a mason jar and keep in the
> fridge. Don't want to waste that flavor when it can be used in a
> lot of things.

Too true.

nb

On 29/02/2016 10:47 AM, notbob wrote:
> Since I don't interact with JB threads and most of the bonus puppets
> have disappeared, I thought I'd post an article about actual cooking.
> Scary, but true.
>
> I jes combined these ingredients to start my starter:
>
> 50 grams stone ground whole-grain flour
> 50 grams unbleached all-purpose flour
> 100 grams warm tap water
>
> <http://www.examiner.com/article/whole-wheat-sourdough-bread-part-i>
>
> Is this a valid approach? Should I post ina baking group? If so,
> which one? I'll even entertain responses from whatserface, Mz Bake
> Expert. You know ....the one who gets all offended and calls me
> Hitler.... or did I call her Hitler? I ferget.
>
> Anyway, I jes saw a new 4 part episode about cooking and baking
> (Cooked), with Michael Pollan waxing poetic about the miracle of
> bread, so I thought I'd make me some. (I prefer beer, but it doesn't
> lend itself to making a sammy, fer dammit!)
>
> I realize this may come as a surprise to many of you, but this IS rfc
> ....the "c" DOES stand fer "cooking". Seriously.
>
> nb
>
I like the article but I warn you that IME it takes quite a while to
build an effective starter.
I recommend that when it is fairly active, use some of it to make a loaf
but add a little (1 tsp) of fast-acting yeast to the final dough. That
way you will get a tasty loaf but you'll make it in a reasonable time.
Early stage SD cultures are frustratingly slow. After a few loaves made
the above way, the culture should be sufficiently strong to make a
proper SD loaf.
The former denizens of the now moribund rec.food.sourdough would yell:
"Sacrilege"! But members of the struggling alt.bread.recipes are more
forgiving.
Graham

On 2016-02-29, graham > wrote:
>>
> I like the article but I warn you that IME it takes quite a while to
> build an effective starter.

Apparently! I mixed mine an hour ago and it ain't done spit. 8|

> I recommend that when it is fairly active, use some of it to make a loaf
> but add a little (1 tsp) of fast-acting yeast to the final dough. That
> way you will get a tasty loaf but you'll make it in a reasonable time.
> Early stage SD cultures are frustratingly slow. After a few loaves made
> the above way, the culture should be sufficiently strong to make a
> proper SD loaf.

Noted.

> The former denizens of the now moribund rec.food.sourdough would yell:
> "Sacrilege"! But members of the struggling alt.bread.recipes are more
> forgiving.
> Graham

heh heh.... Yeah, that's when Boron and myself first got into it.
Something about "real" SD (no added yeast) and yer method. I'll give
it a week.

One last question: should the starter be a thin batter or a thick
batter?

nb

On 29/02/2016 11:28 AM, notbob wrote:
> On 2016-02-29, graham > wrote:
>>>
>> I like the article but I warn you that IME it takes quite a while to
>> build an effective starter.
>
> Apparently! I mixed mine an hour ago and it ain't done spit. 8|
>
>> I recommend that when it is fairly active, use some of it to make a loaf
>> but add a little (1 tsp) of fast-acting yeast to the final dough. That
>> way you will get a tasty loaf but you'll make it in a reasonable time.
>> Early stage SD cultures are frustratingly slow. After a few loaves made
>> the above way, the culture should be sufficiently strong to make a
>> proper SD loaf.
>
> Noted.
>
>> The former denizens of the now moribund rec.food.sourdough would yell:
>> "Sacrilege"! But members of the struggling alt.bread.recipes are more
>> forgiving.
>> Graham
>
> heh heh.... Yeah, that's when Boron and myself first got into it.
> Something about "real" SD (no added yeast) and yer method. I'll give
> it a week.
>
> One last question: should the starter be a thin batter or a thick
> batter?
>
> nb
>
There are two schools of thought to this question. Traditional
Californian-style sourdough uses a batter based on equal weights of
flour and water (100% hydration using bakers' %) so it's a thickish batter.
The French style, pain au levain, which has a subtler flavour, uses a
dough-like starter based on ~60g of water per 100g dough (60% bakers' %).
The batter favours acid producing bacteria that are the trademark of San
Francisco SD bread. Therefore, if you want to make that type of bread,
use a thick batter, but definitely a batter.
Of course long proofing stages using the French starter will result in a
sour tang.
HTH
Graham

On 2016-02-29, graham > wrote:

> There are two schools of thought to this question. Traditional
> Californian-style sourdough uses a batter based on equal weights of
> flour and water (100% hydration using bakers' %) so it's a thickish
> batter. The French style, pain au levain, which has a subtler
> flavour, uses a dough-like starter based on ~60g of water per 100g
> dough (60% bakers' %). The batter favours acid producing bacteria
> that are the trademark of San Francisco SD bread. Therefore, if you
> want to make that type of bread, use a thick batter, but definitely
> a batter. Of course long proofing stages using the French starter
> will result in a sour tang.
HTH

It does. Immensely.

I've also read where the San Francisco wild yeast is not limited to
the SFBA. That explains why a Denver bread maker usta make a SF SD
that was better than my memories of the real deal.

Looks like I gotta lot more research to do.

nb

On 29/02/2016 1:58 PM, notbob wrote:
> On 2016-02-29, graham > wrote:
>
>> There are two schools of thought to this question. Traditional
>> Californian-style sourdough uses a batter based on equal weights of
>> flour and water (100% hydration using bakers' %) so it's a thickish
>> batter. The French style, pain au levain, which has a subtler
>> flavour, uses a dough-like starter based on ~60g of water per 100g
>> dough (60% bakers' %). The batter favours acid producing bacteria
>> that are the trademark of San Francisco SD bread. Therefore, if you
>> want to make that type of bread, use a thick batter, but definitely
>> a batter. Of course long proofing stages using the French starter
>> will result in a sour tang.
> HTH
>
> It does. Immensely.
>
> I've also read where the San Francisco wild yeast is not limited to
> the SFBA. That explains why a Denver bread maker usta make a SF SD
> that was better than my memories of the real deal.
>
> Looks like I gotta lot more research to do.
>
> nb
>
>
There is a lot of folklore and "old, married, females' tales" attached
to SD Bread, especially from SF. The principal bacterium is called
"Lactobacillus sanfranciscensis" but this is found in SD cultures all
over the world. The yeasts and bacteria IMO come from the wheat grain
and are not floating around in the SF atmosphere in any appreciable
numbers, in contrast to what some devotees would have you believe.
The wild yeasts are specific to the source so after making a starter
from grapes or plums, the wheat beasties will eventually replace the
fruit beasties. Note, you don't use wine yeasts to make beer and vice
versa. Note, this is all my opinion but I am not alone in thinking this.
Graham