I made a first attempt at using arrowroot as a thickener and failed. I'm
hoping for some guidance.

Cornstarch is a good thickener to use at high temperatures. To contrast,
Arrowroot supposedly thickens between 158 F and 175 F, and at higher
temperatures the thickening action stops.

I boiled a pot of water to 170 F then put in a Ball canning jar with one cup
of water and two tablespoons of arrowroot powder. I mixed in the arrowroot
into the water to create a slurry, and then I let the Ball jar heat up to
170 F. Around 160 F the arrowroot did start to thicken, but it was a weak
gel. After about 20 minutes at 170 F, I took out the Ball jar and let it
cool. Somehow the arrowroot de-gelled and it became a liquid again.

What am I doing wrong here? How do I get the gel to stick (pun intended)?

If I overheat to beyond 175 F, is the gel going to remain, or will it
actually undo at those higher temperatures?

--
W

"W" > wrote in message
...
>I made a first attempt at using arrowroot as a thickener and failed. I'm
> hoping for some guidance.
>
> Cornstarch is a good thickener to use at high temperatures. To contrast,
> Arrowroot supposedly thickens between 158 F and 175 F, and at higher
> temperatures the thickening action stops.
>
> I boiled a pot of water to 170 F then put in a Ball canning jar with one
> cup
> of water and two tablespoons of arrowroot powder. I mixed in the
> arrowroot
> into the water to create a slurry, and then I let the Ball jar heat up to
> 170 F. Around 160 F the arrowroot did start to thicken, but it was a
> weak
> gel. After about 20 minutes at 170 F, I took out the Ball jar and let
> it
> cool. Somehow the arrowroot de-gelled and it became a liquid again.
>
> What am I doing wrong here? How do I get the gel to stick (pun
> intended)?
>
> If I overheat to beyond 175 F, is the gel going to remain, or will it
> actually undo at those higher temperatures?

I have only used arrowroot for things that I didn't cook. Like mayo. I
generally don't use cornstarch as it will break down upon reheating. Not
sure if the arrowroot will do this or not. My preferred thickeners for
cooked foods are either sweet rice (glutinous) flour or Wondra, a precooked
wheat flour.

Your mistake could be that you never brought the mixture to a boil. I don't
know why you seem to have such a fascination with low temp. cooking. You
need to boil something for at least a minute for the thickening to begin.
Boiling being 212 degrees. However... I am not sure if this applies to
arrowroot. I know it will thicken without cooking. Perhaps cooking breaks
it down? Not sure.

"Julie Bove" > wrote in message
...
>
> "W" > wrote in message
> ...
> >I made a first attempt at using arrowroot as a thickener and failed. I'm
> > hoping for some guidance.
> >
> > Cornstarch is a good thickener to use at high temperatures. To
contrast,
> > Arrowroot supposedly thickens between 158 F and 175 F, and at higher
> > temperatures the thickening action stops.
> >
> > I boiled a pot of water to 170 F then put in a Ball canning jar with one
> > cup
> > of water and two tablespoons of arrowroot powder. I mixed in the
> > arrowroot
> > into the water to create a slurry, and then I let the Ball jar heat up
to
> > 170 F. Around 160 F the arrowroot did start to thicken, but it was a
> > weak
> > gel. After about 20 minutes at 170 F, I took out the Ball jar and let
> > it
> > cool. Somehow the arrowroot de-gelled and it became a liquid again.
> >
> > What am I doing wrong here? How do I get the gel to stick (pun
> > intended)?
> >
> > If I overheat to beyond 175 F, is the gel going to remain, or will it
> > actually undo at those higher temperatures?
>
> I have only used arrowroot for things that I didn't cook. Like mayo. I
> generally don't use cornstarch as it will break down upon reheating. Not
> sure if the arrowroot will do this or not. My preferred thickeners for
> cooked foods are either sweet rice (glutinous) flour or Wondra, a
precooked
> wheat flour.
>
> Your mistake could be that you never brought the mixture to a boil. I
don't
> know why you seem to have such a fascination with low temp. cooking. You
> need to boil something for at least a minute for the thickening to begin.
> Boiling being 212 degrees. However... I am not sure if this applies to
> arrowroot. I know it will thicken without cooking. Perhaps cooking
breaks
> it down? Not sure.

Supposedly, Arrowroot has the quality of thickening only between 158 and 175
F, which means by definition you do not bring it to a boil.

I am also not sure what happens with Arrowroot when you go above these
temperatures. One possibility is that it stops the gel process but the gel
remains. The other possibility is the gel breaks down and is ruined.
Maybe someone can clarify that.

In any case, I was cooking it 170F for 20 minutes, which should be right in
the target range for Arrowroot. And I did get a lot of thickening. It
just didn't hold.

--
W

"Julie Bove" > wrote in message
...
> Your mistake could be that you never brought the mixture to a boil. I
don't
> know why you seem to have such a fascination with low temp. cooking. You
> need to boil something for at least a minute for the thickening to begin.
> Boiling being 212 degrees. However... I am not sure if this applies to
> arrowroot. I know it will thicken without cooking. Perhaps cooking
breaks
> it down? Not sure.

One reason to use Arrowroot over other thickeners is that it is relatively
clear. For something like a fruit topping that is a desirable quality.

For something like a gravy, or a meat sauce, a more cloudy thickener like
cornstarch might be preferred.

--
W

On Mon, 22 Feb 2016 17:59:14 -0800, "W" >
wrote:

> One reason to use Arrowroot over other thickeners is that it is relatively
> clear. For something like a fruit topping that is a desirable quality.

There's a better product for that and it's called Clear Jel.


--

sf

On Monday, February 22, 2016 at 8:59:18 PM UTC-5, W wrote:
>
> One reason to use Arrowroot over other thickeners is that it is relatively
> clear. For something like a fruit topping that is a desirable quality.
>
> For something like a gravy, or a meat sauce, a more cloudy thickener like
> cornstarch might be preferred.
>
> --
> W

For a fruit topping why not use gelatin?

In the opinion of most chefs cloudy sauces are to be avoided. Much effort is used to avoid cloudiness.

http://www.richardfisher.com

On 2/23/2016 12:47 AM, Sqwertz wrote:
> When
> it's the latter you shouldn't even bother offering advice.
>
> -sw
As a PROUD and un-indicted (so far) woman-stalker, I know!!!!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ost
>
3/18/2011 3:49 PM
Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1162
readnews.com - News for Geeks and ISPs
fa35d278.newsreader.readnews.com


Sorry I don't fit either of your Ideal Psycho Pal Profiles.

-sw
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'd prefer you use a sniper rifle on me from a few hundred yards away.
There you go - a reason for you to buy yet another gun and ammo.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On 2/23/2016 12:52 AM, Sqwertz wrote:
> I just gave up on it since I don't make clear sauces. If I
> really needed some I would invest in some ClearJel(tm).
>
> -sw
As a PROUD and un-indicted (so far) woman-stalker, I know!!!!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ost
>
3/18/2011 3:49 PM
Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1162
readnews.com - News for Geeks and ISPs
fa35d278.newsreader.readnews.com


Sorry I don't fit either of your Ideal Psycho Pal Profiles.

-sw
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'd prefer you use a sniper rifle on me from a few hundred yards away.
There you go - a reason for you to buy yet another gun and ammo.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Sqwertz" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 22 Feb 2016 14:03:12 -0800, W wrote:
>
> > I made a first attempt at using arrowroot as a thickener and failed.
I'm
> > hoping for some guidance.
> >
> > Cornstarch is a good thickener to use at high temperatures. To
contrast,
> > Arrowroot supposedly thickens between 158 F and 175 F, and at higher
> > temperatures the thickening action stops.
> >
> > I boiled a pot of water to 170 F then put in a Ball canning jar with one
cup
> > of water and two tablespoons of arrowroot powder. I mixed in the
arrowroot
> > into the water to create a slurry, and then I let the Ball jar heat up
to
> > 170 F. Around 160 F the arrowroot did start to thicken, but it was a
weak
> > gel. After about 20 minutes at 170 F, I took out the Ball jar and let
it
> > cool. Somehow the arrowroot de-gelled and it became a liquid again.
> >
> > What am I doing wrong here? How do I get the gel to stick (pun
intended)?
> >
> > If I overheat to beyond 175 F, is the gel going to remain, or will it
> > actually undo at those higher temperatures?
>
> I've always had bad luck with arrowroot. I've always needed 2-3 times
> as much as recipe calls for. And it will break down with prolonged
> heat (as well as overheating). 20 minutes was too long. 5 minutes at
> most. I just gave up on it since I don't make clear sauces. If I
> really needed some I would invest in some ClearJel(tm).

Well at least I have company on this issue.

I have seen it recommended for yogurt recipes as well.

I think you nailed it that I exceeded the time limit. So my guess is that
this is a thickener where you have to just whisk it, wait for the moment
that it forms the gel consistency you want, and then immediately remove it
from heat.

--
W

"Sqwertz" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 22 Feb 2016 14:03:12 -0800, W wrote:
>
> > I made a first attempt at using arrowroot as a thickener and failed.
I'm
> > hoping for some guidance.
> >
> > Cornstarch is a good thickener to use at high temperatures. To
contrast,
> > Arrowroot supposedly thickens between 158 F and 175 F, and at higher
> > temperatures the thickening action stops.
> >
> > I boiled a pot of water to 170 F then put in a Ball canning jar with one
cup
> > of water and two tablespoons of arrowroot powder. I mixed in the
arrowroot
> > into the water to create a slurry, and then I let the Ball jar heat up
to
> > 170 F. Around 160 F the arrowroot did start to thicken, but it was a
weak
> > gel. After about 20 minutes at 170 F, I took out the Ball jar and let
it
> > cool. Somehow the arrowroot de-gelled and it became a liquid again.
> >
> > What am I doing wrong here? How do I get the gel to stick (pun
intended)?
> >
> > If I overheat to beyond 175 F, is the gel going to remain, or will it
> > actually undo at those higher temperatures?
>
> I've always had bad luck with arrowroot. I've always needed 2-3 times
> as much as recipe calls for. And it will break down with prolonged
> heat (as well as overheating). 20 minutes was too long. 5 minutes at
> most. I just gave up on it since I don't make clear sauces. If I
> really needed some I would invest in some ClearJel(tm).

Okay, success! Based on your feedback, I heated a cup of water to 165 F.
I mixed a slurry of two tablespoons into a small amount of cool water, and
once mixed I added that to the heated water. I mixed that and it started
to gel right away. I mixed it every 15 seconds for about two minutes,
until it was about as clear as I guessed it might get, and then I took it
off the stove.

The gel held well as it cooled, and the result seems to confirm that you add
arrowroot as a final step, then immediately take it off heat once you have
the desired thickness and/or clarity.

I guess this needs to be made into a Youtube video because 19 out of 20
cooking articles that talked about arrowroot couldn't even identify a
correct temperature.

--
W

On Wednesday, February 24, 2016 at 3:22:01 PM UTC-10, W wrote:
> "Sqwertz" > wrote in message
> ...
> > On Mon, 22 Feb 2016 14:03:12 -0800, W wrote:
> >
> > > I made a first attempt at using arrowroot as a thickener and failed.
> I'm
> > > hoping for some guidance.
> > >
> > > Cornstarch is a good thickener to use at high temperatures. To
> contrast,
> > > Arrowroot supposedly thickens between 158 F and 175 F, and at higher
> > > temperatures the thickening action stops.
> > >
> > > I boiled a pot of water to 170 F then put in a Ball canning jar with one
> cup
> > > of water and two tablespoons of arrowroot powder. I mixed in the
> arrowroot
> > > into the water to create a slurry, and then I let the Ball jar heat up
> to
> > > 170 F. Around 160 F the arrowroot did start to thicken, but it was a
> weak
> > > gel. After about 20 minutes at 170 F, I took out the Ball jar and let
> it
> > > cool. Somehow the arrowroot de-gelled and it became a liquid again.
> > >
> > > What am I doing wrong here? How do I get the gel to stick (pun
> intended)?
> > >
> > > If I overheat to beyond 175 F, is the gel going to remain, or will it
> > > actually undo at those higher temperatures?
> >
> > I've always had bad luck with arrowroot. I've always needed 2-3 times
> > as much as recipe calls for. And it will break down with prolonged
> > heat (as well as overheating). 20 minutes was too long. 5 minutes at
> > most. I just gave up on it since I don't make clear sauces. If I
> > really needed some I would invest in some ClearJel(tm).
>
> Okay, success! Based on your feedback, I heated a cup of water to 165 F..
> I mixed a slurry of two tablespoons into a small amount of cool water, and
> once mixed I added that to the heated water. I mixed that and it started
> to gel right away. I mixed it every 15 seconds for about two minutes,
> until it was about as clear as I guessed it might get, and then I took it
> off the stove.
>
> The gel held well as it cooled, and the result seems to confirm that you add
> arrowroot as a final step, then immediately take it off heat once you have
> the desired thickness and/or clarity.
>
> I guess this needs to be made into a Youtube video because 19 out of 20
> cooking articles that talked about arrowroot couldn't even identify a
> correct temperature.
>
> --
> W

No video needed - thickening a liquid is basic cooking. No thermometer needed either. Bring the liquid to slow simmer, add slurry, stir mixture to low boil until thickened, continue low simmer with stirring for a minute or two. That's it. A cook will do this countless times. You might want to start with basic cooking techniques first.

"dsi1" > wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, February 24, 2016 at 3:22:01 PM UTC-10, W wrote:
> "Sqwertz" > wrote in message
> ...
> > On Mon, 22 Feb 2016 14:03:12 -0800, W wrote:
> >
> > > I made a first attempt at using arrowroot as a thickener and failed.
> I'm
> > > hoping for some guidance.
> > >
> > > Cornstarch is a good thickener to use at high temperatures. To
> contrast,
> > > Arrowroot supposedly thickens between 158 F and 175 F, and at higher
> > > temperatures the thickening action stops.
> > >
> > > I boiled a pot of water to 170 F then put in a Ball canning jar with
> > > one
> cup
> > > of water and two tablespoons of arrowroot powder. I mixed in the
> arrowroot
> > > into the water to create a slurry, and then I let the Ball jar heat up
> to
> > > 170 F. Around 160 F the arrowroot did start to thicken, but it was a
> weak
> > > gel. After about 20 minutes at 170 F, I took out the Ball jar and
> > > let
> it
> > > cool. Somehow the arrowroot de-gelled and it became a liquid again.
> > >
> > > What am I doing wrong here? How do I get the gel to stick (pun
> intended)?
> > >
> > > If I overheat to beyond 175 F, is the gel going to remain, or will it
> > > actually undo at those higher temperatures?
> >
> > I've always had bad luck with arrowroot. I've always needed 2-3 times
> > as much as recipe calls for. And it will break down with prolonged
> > heat (as well as overheating). 20 minutes was too long. 5 minutes at
> > most. I just gave up on it since I don't make clear sauces. If I
> > really needed some I would invest in some ClearJel(tm).
>
> Okay, success! Based on your feedback, I heated a cup of water to 165 F.
> I mixed a slurry of two tablespoons into a small amount of cool water, and
> once mixed I added that to the heated water. I mixed that and it started
> to gel right away. I mixed it every 15 seconds for about two minutes,
> until it was about as clear as I guessed it might get, and then I took it
> off the stove.
>
> The gel held well as it cooled, and the result seems to confirm that you
> add
> arrowroot as a final step, then immediately take it off heat once you have
> the desired thickness and/or clarity.
>
> I guess this needs to be made into a Youtube video because 19 out of 20
> cooking articles that talked about arrowroot couldn't even identify a
> correct temperature.
>
> --
> W

No video needed - thickening a liquid is basic cooking. No thermometer
needed either. Bring the liquid to slow simmer, add slurry, stir mixture to
low boil until thickened, continue low simmer with stirring for a minute or
two. That's it. A cook will do this countless times. You might want to start
with basic cooking techniques first.

--

But arrowroot is a different beast. As I said prior, I have only ever used
it to thicken uncooked things like faux mayo.

dsi1" > wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, February 24, 2016 at 3:22:01 PM UTC-10, W wrote:
> "Sqwertz" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I've always had bad luck with arrowroot. I've always needed 2-3 times
> > as much as recipe calls for. And it will break down with prolonged
> > heat (as well as overheating). 20 minutes was too long. 5 minutes at
> > most. I just gave up on it since I don't make clear sauces. If I
> > really needed some I would invest in some ClearJel(tm).
>
> Okay, success! Based on your feedback, I heated a cup of water to 165 F.
> I mixed a slurry of two tablespoons into a small amount of cool water, and
> once mixed I added that to the heated water. I mixed that and it started
> to gel right away. I mixed it every 15 seconds for about two minutes,
> until it was about as clear as I guessed it might get, and then I took it
> off the stove.
>
> The gel held well as it cooled, and the result seems to confirm that you
add
> arrowroot as a final step, then immediately take it off heat once you have
> the desired thickness and/or clarity.
>
> I guess this needs to be made into a Youtube video because 19 out of 20
> cooking articles that talked about arrowroot couldn't even identify a
> correct temperature.

> No video needed - thickening a liquid is basic cooking. No thermometer
needed either. Bring the liquid to slow simmer, add slurry, stir mixture to
low boil until thickened, continue low simmer with
> stirring for a minute or two. That's it. A cook will do this countless
times. You might want to start with basic cooking techniques first.

It will amaze you to learn that lots of people - like Sqwertz - have done
exactly what you describe and Arrowroot behaves badly.

Technically, your instructions are wrong. A "slow simmer" is between 185
and 212 F and this is the wrong temperature for Arrowroot.

--
W

On Saturday, February 27, 2016 at 9:41:32 AM UTC-10, W wrote:
> dsi1" <dsi wrote in message
> ...
> On Wednesday, February 24, 2016 at 3:22:01 PM UTC-10, W wrote:
> > "Sqwertz" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > I've always had bad luck with arrowroot. I've always needed 2-3 times
> > > as much as recipe calls for. And it will break down with prolonged
> > > heat (as well as overheating). 20 minutes was too long. 5 minutes at
> > > most. I just gave up on it since I don't make clear sauces. If I
> > > really needed some I would invest in some ClearJel(tm).
> >
> > Okay, success! Based on your feedback, I heated a cup of water to 165 F.
> > I mixed a slurry of two tablespoons into a small amount of cool water, and
> > once mixed I added that to the heated water. I mixed that and it started
> > to gel right away. I mixed it every 15 seconds for about two minutes,
> > until it was about as clear as I guessed it might get, and then I took it
> > off the stove.
> >
> > The gel held well as it cooled, and the result seems to confirm that you
> add
> > arrowroot as a final step, then immediately take it off heat once you have
> > the desired thickness and/or clarity.
> >
> > I guess this needs to be made into a Youtube video because 19 out of 20
> > cooking articles that talked about arrowroot couldn't even identify a
> > correct temperature.
>
> > No video needed - thickening a liquid is basic cooking. No thermometer
> needed either. Bring the liquid to slow simmer, add slurry, stir mixture to
> low boil until thickened, continue low simmer with
> > stirring for a minute or two. That's it. A cook will do this countless
> times. You might want to start with basic cooking techniques first.
>
> It will amaze you to learn that lots of people - like Sqwertz - have done
> exactly what you describe and Arrowroot behaves badly.
>
> Technically, your instructions are wrong. A "slow simmer" is between 185
> and 212 F and this is the wrong temperature for Arrowroot.
>
> --
> W

Sounds like you consider thickening a liquid a technical exercise. Sorry about that but you need to ditch the books and the thermometers and get some practical experience. Nobody uses a thermometer to do this basic of cookery. Good luck!

"Sqwertz" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 22 Feb 2016 14:03:12 -0800, W wrote:
>
> > I made a first attempt at using arrowroot as a thickener and failed.
I'm
> > hoping for some guidance.
> >
> > Cornstarch is a good thickener to use at high temperatures. To
contrast,
> > Arrowroot supposedly thickens between 158 F and 175 F, and at higher
> > temperatures the thickening action stops.
> >
> > I boiled a pot of water to 170 F then put in a Ball canning jar with one
cup
> > of water and two tablespoons of arrowroot powder. I mixed in the
arrowroot
> > into the water to create a slurry, and then I let the Ball jar heat up
to
> > 170 F. Around 160 F the arrowroot did start to thicken, but it was a
weak
> > gel. After about 20 minutes at 170 F, I took out the Ball jar and let
it
> > cool. Somehow the arrowroot de-gelled and it became a liquid again.
> >
> > What am I doing wrong here? How do I get the gel to stick (pun
intended)?
> >
> > If I overheat to beyond 175 F, is the gel going to remain, or will it
> > actually undo at those higher temperatures?
>
> I've always had bad luck with arrowroot. I've always needed 2-3 times
> as much as recipe calls for. And it will break down with prolonged
> heat (as well as overheating). 20 minutes was too long. 5 minutes at
> most. I just gave up on it since I don't make clear sauces. If I
> really needed some I would invest in some ClearJel(tm).

So I got the Arrowroot to thicken, then left it in a Mason jar just to see
if it would retain the gel consistency over several days.

It did not. It went back to being a liquid, which makes me question the
value of Arrowroot as a thickener for something like Yogurt. You see
Arrowroot as the thickener in many recipes for coconut yogurt.

So the mysteries of Arrowroot as a thickener still elude me.

--
W