When you turn on your kitchen sink faucet, how long does it take for
"hot" water 140 degrees to start flowing through the faucet? In my
first house, the plumbing contractor ran the hot water line all the
way from one end of the house to the other end and back to the kitchen
sink faucet. I would turn on the hot water and run it fora couple of
minutes before hot water was flowing through the faucet.

Water Heaters with too small capacity, Air Conditioners with too small
capacity. Garbage Disposalls that quit at one year old. These are
things that make me never trust a Contractor unless I write the
specifications and I enforce them before the Contractor sees a penny
from me.

William

In article >,
William > wrote:

> When you turn on your kitchen sink faucet, how long does it take for
> "hot" water 140 degrees to start flowing through the faucet?

Twice as long as it used to. I was forced to remove all the 1/2" copper
and put in 3/4" to meet code. The line from the street is still only
1/2", so the flow rate is no higher, but I've got twice the volume to
fill. Not the contractors fault, just the idiotic city code. The house
is over 100 years old and it has worked fine all this time, but the city
just can't keep their hands off of things.

On 2015-10-20 11:09 AM, William wrote:
> When you turn on your kitchen sink faucet, how long does it take for
> "hot" water 140 degrees to start flowing through the faucet? In my
> first house, the plumbing contractor ran the hot water line all the
> way from one end of the house to the other end and back to the kitchen
> sink faucet. I would turn on the hot water and run it fora couple of
> minutes before hot water was flowing through the faucet.

It takes at least a minute in my house because the water heater is on
the far side of the house. It also takes a while for it to get to the
upstairs bathroom. However, it arrives very quickly at the first floor
bathroom and the laundry room because they are directly about the hot
water tank. I have to pipes wrapped in foam sleeves to reduce heat loss
through the pipes. That works well when the water is running, but when
the water sits in pipes for a while it is inevitable that the heat is
lost and I have to purge the cold water from 30 feet of half inch pipe
before it is hot.

One way to avoid so much heat loss is to have point of use water heaters
installed. They have smaller tanks but they are only supplying the
nearest taps. The electric models cost almost as much as a regular hot
water tank so you have to consider energy savings against the $300
plus for each site, plus the extra installation costs if you can't do it
yourself.


>
> Water Heaters with too small capacity, Air Conditioners with too small
> capacity. Garbage Disposalls that quit at one year old. These are
> things that make me never trust a Contractor unless I write the
> specifications and I enforce them before the Contractor sees a penny
> from me.
>
> William
>

On Tue, 20 Oct 2015 10:29:34 -0500, Mark Storkamp
> wrote:

>In article >,
> William > wrote:
>
>> When you turn on your kitchen sink faucet, how long does it take for
>> "hot" water 140 degrees to start flowing through the faucet?
>
>Twice as long as it used to. I was forced to remove all the 1/2" copper
>and put in 3/4" to meet code. The line from the street is still only
>1/2", so the flow rate is no higher, but I've got twice the volume to
>fill. Not the contractors fault, just the idiotic city code. The house
>is over 100 years old and it has worked fine all this time, but the city
>just can't keep their hands off of things.

Building codes were made for a reason. Usually the reason boils down
to MONEY like everything else, but ostensibly and often speciously is
for "safety".

John Kuthe...

On Tue, 20 Oct 2015 11:09:05 -0400, William > wrote:

>When you turn on your kitchen sink faucet, how long does it take for
>"hot" water 140 degrees to start flowing through the faucet?
....

A minute or so, and a little longer to get good and hot.

John Kuthe...

On Tue, 20 Oct 2015 11:09:05 -0400, William > wrote:

> When you turn on your kitchen sink faucet, how long does it take for
> "hot" water 140 degrees to start flowing through the faucet? In my
> first house, the plumbing contractor ran the hot water line all the
> way from one end of the house to the other end and back to the kitchen
> sink faucet. I would turn on the hot water and run it fora couple of
> minutes before hot water was flowing through the faucet.
>
> Water Heaters with too small capacity, Air Conditioners with too small
> capacity. Garbage Disposalls that quit at one year old. These are
> things that make me never trust a Contractor unless I write the
> specifications and I enforce them before the Contractor sees a penny
> from me.
>
> William

If you're talking about what comes with a new home, they do it as
cheaply as possible to maximize profit. If you're talking about
replacements in your own home, do your research! Why would you let
someone else make the final decision?

Most people locate their furnace, water heater and air conditioner
centrally, so run length isn't an issue. As far as how long it takes
for hot water to hit the faucet, the size of water heater isn't your
problem (unless you take long showers) - but the size of your pipes
is. Either your pipes are corroded or just plain too small. Reroute
them to a direct run and/or replace them with a larger size and your
hot water will reach the faucet faster.

The pipes were a maze when we bought this house too, but we put it
down to the former owner who fancied himself a handyman and did all
sorts of things himself - very badly.

--

sf

On Tue, 20 Oct 2015 11:09:05 -0400, William > wrote:

>When you turn on your kitchen sink faucet, how long does it take for
>"hot" water 140 degrees to start flowing through the faucet? In my
>first house, the plumbing contractor ran the hot water line all the
>way from one end of the house to the other end and back to the kitchen
>sink faucet. I would turn on the hot water and run it fora couple of
>minutes before hot water was flowing through the faucet.
>
>Water Heaters with too small capacity, Air Conditioners with too small
>capacity. Garbage Disposalls that quit at one year old. These are
>things that make me never trust a Contractor unless I write the
>specifications and I enforce them before the Contractor sees a penny
>from me.
>
>William

Don't hire a contractor. Pick out what you want and possibly go ahead
and buy it. Then hire the plumber, electrician, etc. to come and
install it.

We renovated my bathroom last year. I already had the shower stall
and toilet purchased and were in the basement. Also had most of the
plumbing fixtures I wanted. Hired a craftsman to come and do the
work. The work consisted of taking out the walls to the studs,
dropping the ceiling, leveling the floor and putting it all back
together. Since I was pretty much incapacitated, DH went to Lowe's and
ordered the cabinets I wanted. We had already picked out the Quartz I
wanted and had paid a deposit on. The company sent out someone to
measure and find out about the sinks. They also installed it. Had
selected the vinyl I wanted and Lowe's sent out a very good installer
do the work. I am delighted with the outcome. It was done the way I
wanted it and the work was excellent.

And a year later I still like it. I would not change anything about
it.


--
Susan N.

"Moral indignation is in most cases two percent moral,
48 percent indignation, and 50 percent envy."
Vittorio De Sica, Italian movie director (1901-1974)

On Tuesday, October 20, 2015 at 5:10:01 AM UTC-10, BigC300 wrote:
> When you turn on your kitchen sink faucet, how long does it take for
> "hot" water 140 degrees to start flowing through the faucet? In my
> first house, the plumbing contractor ran the hot water line all the
> way from one end of the house to the other end and back to the kitchen
> sink faucet. I would turn on the hot water and run it fora couple of
> minutes before hot water was flowing through the faucet.
>
> Water Heaters with too small capacity, Air Conditioners with too small
> capacity. Garbage Disposalls that quit at one year old. These are
> things that make me never trust a Contractor unless I write the
> specifications and I enforce them before the Contractor sees a penny
> from me.
>
> William

I don't think the capacity of the water heater has anything to do with this. If you want hot water faster, move the water heater closer to the kitchen faucet or vice-versa. Having to wait for hot water is a real drag.

On Tue, 20 Oct 2015 12:35:13 -0400, The Cook >
wrote:

>On Tue, 20 Oct 2015 11:09:05 -0400, William > wrote:
>
>>When you turn on your kitchen sink faucet, how long does it take for
>>"hot" water 140 degrees to start flowing through the faucet? In my
>>first house, the plumbing contractor ran the hot water line all the
>>way from one end of the house to the other end and back to the kitchen
>>sink faucet. I would turn on the hot water and run it fora couple of
>>minutes before hot water was flowing through the faucet.
>>
>>Water Heaters with too small capacity, Air Conditioners with too small
>>capacity. Garbage Disposalls that quit at one year old. These are
>>things that make me never trust a Contractor unless I write the
>>specifications and I enforce them before the Contractor sees a penny
>>from me.
>>
>>William
>
>Don't hire a contractor. Pick out what you want and possibly go ahead
>and buy it. Then hire the plumber, electrician, etc. to come and
>install it.
>
>We renovated my bathroom last year. I already had the shower stall
>and toilet purchased and were in the basement. Also had most of the
>plumbing fixtures I wanted. Hired a craftsman to come and do the
>work. The work consisted of taking out the walls to the studs,
>dropping the ceiling, leveling the floor and putting it all back
>together. Since I was pretty much incapacitated, DH went to Lowe's and
>ordered the cabinets I wanted. We had already picked out the Quartz I
>wanted and had paid a deposit on. The company sent out someone to
>measure and find out about the sinks. They also installed it. Had
>selected the vinyl I wanted and Lowe's sent out a very good installer
>do the work. I am delighted with the outcome. It was done the way I
>wanted it and the work was excellent.
>
>And a year later I still like it. I would not change anything about
>it.

Yep, and that way you can make sure you get quality United Statesian
made fixtures and NOT cheap Chinese JUNK!!

John Kuthe...

On Tue, 20 Oct 2015 09:45:57 -0700 (PDT), dsi1 >
wrote:

>On Tuesday, October 20, 2015 at 5:10:01 AM UTC-10, BigC300 wrote:
>> When you turn on your kitchen sink faucet, how long does it take for
>> "hot" water 140 degrees to start flowing through the faucet? In my
>> first house, the plumbing contractor ran the hot water line all the
>> way from one end of the house to the other end and back to the kitchen
>> sink faucet. I would turn on the hot water and run it fora couple of
>> minutes before hot water was flowing through the faucet.
>>
>> Water Heaters with too small capacity, Air Conditioners with too small
>> capacity. Garbage Disposalls that quit at one year old. These are
>> things that make me never trust a Contractor unless I write the
>> specifications and I enforce them before the Contractor sees a penny
>> from me.
>>
>> William
>
>I don't think the capacity of the water heater has anything to do with this. If you want hot water faster, move the water heater closer to the kitchen faucet or vice-versa. Having to wait for hot water is a real drag.

You azre correct, the capacity of the tank where you PAY and PAY to
keep however many gallons of water hot on the odd chance at any given
moment you MAY want to use some has nothing to do with how long it
will take that very expensive to maintain being hot hot water to get
from the hot water storage tank to your faucet outlet.

It's a stupid paradigm really. My physics professor made us painfully
aware of how many stupid energy wasteful things we do and think it's
all just fine and dandy, when it's NOT really!!

John Kuthe...

On Tuesday, October 20, 2015 at 6:58:43 AM UTC-10, John Kuthe wrote:
> On Tue, 20 Oct 2015 09:45:57 -0700 (PDT), dsi1 <>
> wrote:
>
> >On Tuesday, October 20, 2015 at 5:10:01 AM UTC-10, BigC300 wrote:
> >> When you turn on your kitchen sink faucet, how long does it take for
> >> "hot" water 140 degrees to start flowing through the faucet? In my
> >> first house, the plumbing contractor ran the hot water line all the
> >> way from one end of the house to the other end and back to the kitchen
> >> sink faucet. I would turn on the hot water and run it fora couple of
> >> minutes before hot water was flowing through the faucet.
> >>
> >> Water Heaters with too small capacity, Air Conditioners with too small
> >> capacity. Garbage Disposalls that quit at one year old. These are
> >> things that make me never trust a Contractor unless I write the
> >> specifications and I enforce them before the Contractor sees a penny
> >> from me.
> >>
> >> William
> >
> >I don't think the capacity of the water heater has anything to do with this. If you want hot water faster, move the water heater closer to the kitchen faucet or vice-versa. Having to wait for hot water is a real drag.
>
> You azre correct, the capacity of the tank where you PAY and PAY to
> keep however many gallons of water hot on the odd chance at any given
> moment you MAY want to use some has nothing to do with how long it
> will take that very expensive to maintain being hot hot water to get
> from the hot water storage tank to your faucet outlet.
>
> It's a stupid paradigm really. My physics professor made us painfully
> aware of how many stupid energy wasteful things we do and think it's
> all just fine and dandy, when it's NOT really!!
>
> John Kuthe...

A simple "you are absolutely correct,sir" would have sufficed.

Sqwertz wrote:
> It used to take 5 seconds


Get lost.

On Tue, 20 Oct 2015 10:20:24 -0700 (PDT), dsi1 >
wrote:

>On Tuesday, October 20, 2015 at 6:58:43 AM UTC-10, John Kuthe wrote:
>> On Tue, 20 Oct 2015 09:45:57 -0700 (PDT), dsi1 <>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >On Tuesday, October 20, 2015 at 5:10:01 AM UTC-10, BigC300 wrote:
>> >> When you turn on your kitchen sink faucet, how long does it take for
>> >> "hot" water 140 degrees to start flowing through the faucet? In my
>> >> first house, the plumbing contractor ran the hot water line all the
>> >> way from one end of the house to the other end and back to the kitchen
>> >> sink faucet. I would turn on the hot water and run it fora couple of
>> >> minutes before hot water was flowing through the faucet.
>> >>
>> >> Water Heaters with too small capacity, Air Conditioners with too small
>> >> capacity. Garbage Disposalls that quit at one year old. These are
>> >> things that make me never trust a Contractor unless I write the
>> >> specifications and I enforce them before the Contractor sees a penny
>> >> from me.
>> >>
>> >> William
>> >
>> >I don't think the capacity of the water heater has anything to do with this. If you want hot water faster, move the water heater closer to the kitchen faucet or vice-versa. Having to wait for hot water is a real drag.
>>
>> You azre correct, the capacity of the tank where you PAY and PAY to
>> keep however many gallons of water hot on the odd chance at any given
>> moment you MAY want to use some has nothing to do with how long it
>> will take that very expensive to maintain being hot hot water to get
>> from the hot water storage tank to your faucet outlet.
>>
>> It's a stupid paradigm really. My physics professor made us painfully
>> aware of how many stupid energy wasteful things we do and think it's
>> all just fine and dandy, when it's NOT really!!
>>
>> John Kuthe...
>
>A simple "you are absolutely correct,sir" would have sufficed.

ROFL!! Hate hearing about how stupid things are that we have come to
expect, eh?

You want hot water on demand? Move close to a hot springs!!

John Kuthe...

On Tuesday, October 20, 2015 at 8:10:01 AM UTC-7, BigC300 wrote:
> When you turn on your kitchen sink faucet, how long does it take for
> "hot" water 140 degrees to start flowing through the faucet? In my
> first house, the plumbing contractor ran the hot water line all the
> way from one end of the house to the other end and back to the kitchen
> sink faucet. I would turn on the hot water and run it fora couple of
> minutes before hot water was flowing through the faucet.

Twenty-five years ago, a friend had his house repiped. He hated wasting
water, so the plumber put in a bypass in his bathroom. The hot water was
sent back to the water heater until it was actually hot.

I have seen a couple of houses in the neighborhood with inline water
heaters mounted to the outside wall of their bathrooms. The restroom
of one of our favorite restaurants has an electric inline heater in
their restrooms. Hot water to wash your hands was instantaneous.
>
> Water Heaters with too small capacity, Air Conditioners with too small
> capacity. Garbage Disposalls that quit at one year old. These are
> things that make me never trust a Contractor unless I write the
> specifications and I enforce them before the Contractor sees a penny
> from me.

You can get purchase specs from manufacturers to essentially specify
what you want. Put them in the contract.

"John Kuthe" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 20 Oct 2015 10:20:24 -0700 (PDT), dsi1 >
> wrote:
>
>>On Tuesday, October 20, 2015 at 6:58:43 AM UTC-10, John Kuthe wrote:
>>> On Tue, 20 Oct 2015 09:45:57 -0700 (PDT), dsi1 <>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> >On Tuesday, October 20, 2015 at 5:10:01 AM UTC-10, BigC300 wrote:
>>> >> When you turn on your kitchen sink faucet, how long does it take for
>>> >> "hot" water 140 degrees to start flowing through the faucet? In my
>>> >> first house, the plumbing contractor ran the hot water line all the
>>> >> way from one end of the house to the other end and back to the
>>> >> kitchen
>>> >> sink faucet. I would turn on the hot water and run it fora couple of
>>> >> minutes before hot water was flowing through the faucet.
>>> >>
>>> >> Water Heaters with too small capacity, Air Conditioners with too
>>> >> small
>>> >> capacity. Garbage Disposalls that quit at one year old. These are
>>> >> things that make me never trust a Contractor unless I write the
>>> >> specifications and I enforce them before the Contractor sees a penny
>>> >> from me.
>>> >>
>>> >> William
>>> >
>>> >I don't think the capacity of the water heater has anything to do with
>>> >this. If you want hot water faster, move the water heater closer to the
>>> >kitchen faucet or vice-versa. Having to wait for hot water is a real
>>> >drag.
>>>
>>> You azre correct, the capacity of the tank where you PAY and PAY to
>>> keep however many gallons of water hot on the odd chance at any given
>>> moment you MAY want to use some has nothing to do with how long it
>>> will take that very expensive to maintain being hot hot water to get
>>> from the hot water storage tank to your faucet outlet.
>>>
>>> It's a stupid paradigm really. My physics professor made us painfully
>>> aware of how many stupid energy wasteful things we do and think it's
>>> all just fine and dandy, when it's NOT really!!
>>>
>>> John Kuthe...
>>
>>A simple "you are absolutely correct,sir" would have sufficed.
>
> ROFL!! Hate hearing about how stupid things are that we have come to
> expect, eh?
>
> You want hot water on demand? Move close to a hot springs!!

Or buy a combi boiler!

--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

On 10/20/2015 11:29 AM, Mark Storkamp wrote:

>
> Twice as long as it used to. I was forced to remove all the 1/2" copper
> and put in 3/4" to meet code. The line from the street is still only
> 1/2", so the flow rate is no higher, but I've got twice the volume to
> fill. Not the contractors fault, just the idiotic city code. The house
> is over 100 years old and it has worked fine all this time, but the city
> just can't keep their hands off of things.
>

Never heard of such a thing in older houses. Did you have major
plumbing work done? Are you talking just the main line or even on the
branches?

Idiotic codes and inspectors is why a lot of people never get permits.

On 10/20/2015 2:36 PM, wrote:

>
> Twenty-five years ago, a friend had his house repiped. He hated wasting
> water, so the plumber put in a bypass in his bathroom. The hot water was
> sent back to the water heater until it was actually hot.
>

You can get a circulating pump that keeps how water at the faucet and
returns it. Both lines are insulated to minimizes loss and it can be
put on a timer for the off times.

dsi1 wrote:
>BigC300 wrote:
>> When you turn on your kitchen sink faucet, how long does it take for
>> "hot" water 140 degrees to start flowing through the faucet? In my
>> first house, the plumbing contractor ran the hot water line all the
>> way from one end of the house to the other end and back to the kitchen
>> sink faucet. I would turn on the hot water and run it fora couple of
>> minutes before hot water was flowing through the faucet.
>>
>> Water Heaters with too small capacity, Air Conditioners with too small
>> capacity. Garbage Disposalls that quit at one year old. These are
>> things that make me never trust a Contractor unless I write the
>> specifications and I enforce them before the Contractor sees a penny
>> from me.
>>
>> William
>
>I don't think the capacity of the water heater has anything to do with this.
>If you want hot water faster, move the water heater closer to the kitchen
>faucet or vice-versa. Having to wait for hot water is a real drag.

Firstly 140ºF is much too hot for domestic hot water, it'll scald you
so you'd have to temper it with cold at the tap... what a waste of
energy... 115ºF is plenty hot enough for bathing/laundry.
Secondly forgedaboud hot water tanks and maintaining all those gallons
heated water even while you're not using hot water all night and most
of the day. Install a tankless on demand water heater, it makes hot
water when it detects water flow in the pipe... hot water comes out
the tap in about a minute, more or less naturally depending on the
pipe run.
The new hot water pipes I recently learned are a new type of plastic
that insulates and will last more than 100 years; it's color is red,
cold is blue, can't mess up unless you're color blind... no solder so
no lead, a child can put it together with compression clamps.
Tankless on demand water heaters are a bit pricey (figure about $1,500
average depending on size), but they pay for themselves the first year
in energy savings... they are sized depending on how many hot water
faucets you will want opened at once, but labor is the same regardless
of capacity so don't skimp on size, the largest unit will cost about
$200 more than the smallest. The beauty of the system is that you
never run out of hot water until you run out of water, I can open
every hot water faucet in my house including run my clothes and dish
washer all at the same time and never run out of hot water...
naturally I've no need to do that... but it might be a good feature
for a large family with everyone showering at the same time plus
runnin g the clothes waser. Another good feature is that the unit
requires no more room in your house than small piece of luggage. The
only negative for some people is it heats water with gas, natural or
propane, not by electric, that alone saves big bucks, gas costs less
than electric. I have no natural gas available where I live so I use
propane, I use propane anyway for heating and cooking. My propane
supplier installed the unit about two years ago, that's all they
install anymore, all new construction and all replacements. A person
would have to see a shrink if they want a hot water tank.
It's a beautiful thing:
https://www.rinnai.us/tankless-water-heater
I have this one, my propane supplier chose, supplied, and installed
it:
http://www.amazon.com/Rinnai-RL94iP-...sxp_grid_i_1_1
On my basement wall:
http://i61.tinypic.com/f1w8sj.jpg
http://i58.tinypic.com/j9oidt.jpg
If you live in a mild climate (no freezing) it can be installed
outside

On 2015-10-20 12:17 PM, sf wrote:

> Most people locate their furnace, water heater and air conditioner
> centrally, so run length isn't an issue. As far as how long it takes
> for hot water to hit the faucet,


Most people don't have a say in where the furnace and heater go. They
are there when they buy the place, and they are usually installed to
maximize space. My former neighbour is the only person I know who had
a furnace moved. When they switched to gas the furnace was much smaller
than the previous old oil furnace. The moved it to the corner of the
next room and gained an open room.

One needs to consider the location of the rooms to be plumped. If they
are all one one side of the house it makes sense to have the heater
located there. If they are at opposite sides of the house it doesn't
make much difference in the amount of material because you can go from
one end to the other or from the middle to two ends and it will be about
the same amount of piping There won't be much difference in the amount
of heat lost through radiation but it there will be a difference in the
time it takes to get the hot water. The further the water runs from the
heater the longer it will take to purge the cold water and get the hot
there.



> the size of water heater isn't your
> problem (unless you take long showers) - but the size of your pipes
> is. Either your pipes are corroded or just plain too small. Reroute
> them to a direct run and/or replace them with a larger size and your
> hot water will reach the faucet faster.



Larger diameter pipe will not make the hot water come faster. On the
contrary, there will be more cold water in the pipes to be purged. I
suppose you could run massive pipes and huge fixtures, but there is
limited water pressure and the big restriction is at the faucet. The
more cold water there is sitting in the pipes, the longer it is going to
take to get hot.

On Tue, 20 Oct 2015 19:37:13 +0100, "Ophelia" >
wrote:

>Or buy a combi boiler!


what is that Ophelia? Do we have any of those here in the colonies?

William

On Tuesday, October 20, 2015 at 8:36:50 AM UTC-10, wrote:
> On Tuesday, October 20, 2015 at 8:10:01 AM UTC-7, BigC300 wrote:
> > When you turn on your kitchen sink faucet, how long does it take for
> > "hot" water 140 degrees to start flowing through the faucet? In my
> > first house, the plumbing contractor ran the hot water line all the
> > way from one end of the house to the other end and back to the kitchen
> > sink faucet. I would turn on the hot water and run it fora couple of
> > minutes before hot water was flowing through the faucet.
>
> Twenty-five years ago, a friend had his house repiped. He hated wasting
> water, so the plumber put in a bypass in his bathroom. The hot water was
> sent back to the water heater until it was actually hot.

A recirculation pump setup would pretty much solve most people's problem with not getting hot water quick enough and it's probably cheaper than an on demand water heater. Oddly enough, automobiles use fuel recirculation to do the opposite: to keep the fuel lines and system from getting too hot and suppressing fuel vaporization in the lines.

>
> I have seen a couple of houses in the neighborhood with inline water
> heaters mounted to the outside wall of their bathrooms. The restroom
> of one of our favorite restaurants has an electric inline heater in
> their restrooms. Hot water to wash your hands was instantaneous.
> >
> > Water Heaters with too small capacity, Air Conditioners with too small
> > capacity. Garbage Disposalls that quit at one year old. These are
> > things that make me never trust a Contractor unless I write the
> > specifications and I enforce them before the Contractor sees a penny
> > from me.
>
> You can get purchase specs from manufacturers to essentially specify
> what you want. Put them in the contract.

On Tue, 20 Oct 2015 12:14:43 -0500, Sqwertz >
wrote:

>On Tue, 20 Oct 2015 11:09:05 -0400, William wrote:
>
>> When you turn on your kitchen sink faucet, how long does it take for
>> "hot" water 140 degrees to start flowing through the faucet?
>
>It used to take 5 seconds but now it takes 20 with my new faucet - 40
>or more seconds to get as hot as possible. I blame this on the new
>"low flow" designs. And now the water is never as hot as the other
>faucets in the house.

Restricted flow faucets in no way alter water temperature unless it's
fitted with a temperature limiting device that has the factory setting
at a lower temperature, but all it really does is divert some cold
water to temper the hot water... if that's the case you can adjust
that temperature... refer to your owner's manual.

On 2015-10-20 3:28 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:

> Firstly 140ºF is much too hot for domestic hot water, it'll scald you
> so you'd have to temper it with cold at the tap... what a waste of
> energy... 115ºF is plenty hot enough for bathing/laundry.


I figure I don't need my hot water to be any hotter than I can bear on
my skin. When I have a shower I can crank it up to full blast.

On Tuesday, October 20, 2015 at 10:10:01 AM UTC-5, BigC300 wrote:
>
> When you turn on your kitchen sink faucet, how long does it take for
> "hot" water 140 degrees to start flowing through the faucet?
>
> William
>
>
I don't have my water heater temperature set that high but
it takes 15 seconds or less to have hot water coming out of
the faucet. My 40 gallon gas hot water heater is in my
dug out basement and is perhaps 20 feet away from the kitchen.

Just guessing on the time as I've never really timed it.

Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2015-10-20 3:28 PM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
>
>> Firstly 140ºF is much too hot for domestic hot water, it'll scald you
>> so you'd have to temper it with cold at the tap... what a waste of
>> energy... 115ºF is plenty hot enough for bathing/laundry.
>
>
> I figure I don't need my hot water to be any hotter than I can bear on
> my skin. When I have a shower I can crank it up to full blast.

Cold water flat?

On Tuesday, October 20, 2015 at 8:27:53 AM UTC-10, John Kuthe wrote:
> On Tue, 20 Oct 2015 10:20:24 -0700 (PDT), dsi1 <>
> wrote:
>
> >On Tuesday, October 20, 2015 at 6:58:43 AM UTC-10, John Kuthe wrote:
> >> On Tue, 20 Oct 2015 09:45:57 -0700 (PDT), dsi1 <>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On Tuesday, October 20, 2015 at 5:10:01 AM UTC-10, BigC300 wrote:
> >> >> When you turn on your kitchen sink faucet, how long does it take for
> >> >> "hot" water 140 degrees to start flowing through the faucet? In my
> >> >> first house, the plumbing contractor ran the hot water line all the
> >> >> way from one end of the house to the other end and back to the kitchen
> >> >> sink faucet. I would turn on the hot water and run it fora couple of
> >> >> minutes before hot water was flowing through the faucet.
> >> >>
> >> >> Water Heaters with too small capacity, Air Conditioners with too small
> >> >> capacity. Garbage Disposalls that quit at one year old. These are
> >> >> things that make me never trust a Contractor unless I write the
> >> >> specifications and I enforce them before the Contractor sees a penny
> >> >> from me.
> >> >>
> >> >> William
> >> >
> >> >I don't think the capacity of the water heater has anything to do with this. If you want hot water faster, move the water heater closer to the kitchen faucet or vice-versa. Having to wait for hot water is a real drag.
> >>
> >> You azre correct, the capacity of the tank where you PAY and PAY to
> >> keep however many gallons of water hot on the odd chance at any given
> >> moment you MAY want to use some has nothing to do with how long it
> >> will take that very expensive to maintain being hot hot water to get
> >> from the hot water storage tank to your faucet outlet.
> >>
> >> It's a stupid paradigm really. My physics professor made us painfully
> >> aware of how many stupid energy wasteful things we do and think it's
> >> all just fine and dandy, when it's NOT really!!
> >>
> >> John Kuthe...
> >
> >A simple "you are absolutely correct,sir" would have sufficed.
>
> ROFL!! Hate hearing about how stupid things are that we have come to
> expect, eh?

I don't hate hearing most things, although folks endlessly bitching about things they have no control over just might qualify. As it goes, most people will tolerate water heater standing losses because installing an on-demand system is too expensive. People will also tolerate waiting for a few seconds for hot water because it's just too expensive to install another pump and return line into the system.

OTOH, folks bitch about stuff because lip service usually comes free of charge. I won't do it myself because flapping one's gums in the breeze wastes energy and time. It ain't much in the grand scheme of things but "high efficiency" is my middle name. Hee hee.

Let me assure you that if they didn't have to pay for it, people would fix all the little inconveniences of modern life. I just got all the lights in my office changed to higher efficiency fluorescent bulbs, free of charge by the US government. You can bet that I'm doing my part for a stronger, more energy efficient America! Are you doing your part?

>
> You want hot water on demand? Move close to a hot springs!!
>
> John Kuthe...

"William" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 20 Oct 2015 19:37:13 +0100, "Ophelia" >
> wrote:
>
>>Or buy a combi boiler!
>
>
> what is that Ophelia? Do we have any of those here in the colonies?

Ask Sheila. She has homes in Scotland and USA and she has a combi boiler
here in Scotland. She will know

--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

In article >,
Ed Pawlowski > wrote:

> On 10/20/2015 11:29 AM, Mark Storkamp wrote:
>
> >
> > Twice as long as it used to. I was forced to remove all the 1/2" copper
> > and put in 3/4" to meet code. The line from the street is still only
> > 1/2", so the flow rate is no higher, but I've got twice the volume to
> > fill. Not the contractors fault, just the idiotic city code. The house
> > is over 100 years old and it has worked fine all this time, but the city
> > just can't keep their hands off of things.
> >
>
> Never heard of such a thing in older houses. Did you have major
> plumbing work done? Are you talking just the main line or even on the
> branches?
>
> Idiotic codes and inspectors is why a lot of people never get permits.

Bathroom was replaced. Once any part of the plumbing is touched, the
whole house has to come up to code. Fortunately electrical is different.
Only the run from the box to the bathroom had to be updated.

I've got a laundry sink, kitchen sink, bath sink, toilet, shower and
outside faucet. That's 1 item too many for 1/2" lines. But that 3/4" is
only required after the meter, so the buried line out to the street was
left as is.

actually, you cannot stand water in your kitchen sink that will
sterilize your dishes...150 degrees. Most modern dish washers have a
heater that comes on to "sterilize" the dishes after they are washed.

I believe if I built a new home, the "tankless" water heater is the
way to go. No running out of hot water if someone enjoys he hot shower
too much.


William

Susan, your way is the way I have done all the remodeling in my house .. Kitchen,
two bathrooms, red room .. I do not know anyone at all that has a contractor pick out any
of the items you mention.

Everyone I know has done all their own choosing. I can't imagine allowing any
contractor to do the choosing, even a known and respected contractor.

N.

I also have a tankless water heater, but mine is natural gas. It's great not running out of hot water, ever. My only complaint is that it does take longer to get the hot water to the tap. The hot water shows up just as I'm done washing my hands.

Denise in NH

On Tue, 20 Oct 2015 15:29:13 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote:

> > the size of water heater isn't your
> > problem (unless you take long showers) - but the size of your pipes
> > is. Either your pipes are corroded or just plain too small. Reroute
> > them to a direct run and/or replace them with a larger size and your
> > hot water will reach the faucet faster.
>
>
>
> Larger diameter pipe will not make the hot water come faster. On the
> contrary, there will be more cold water in the pipes to be purged. I
> suppose you could run massive pipes and huge fixtures, but there is
> limited water pressure and the big restriction is at the faucet. The
> more cold water there is sitting in the pipes, the longer it is going to
> take to get hot.

I will guarantee you that corroded pipes affect everything.

--

sf

"William" > wrote in message
...
> When you turn on your kitchen sink faucet, how long does it take for
> "hot" water 140 degrees to start flowing through the faucet? In my
> first house, the plumbing contractor ran the hot water line all the
> way from one end of the house to the other end and back to the kitchen
> sink faucet. I would turn on the hot water and run it fora couple of
> minutes before hot water was flowing through the faucet.
>
> Water Heaters with too small capacity, Air Conditioners with too small
> capacity. Garbage Disposalls that quit at one year old. These are
> things that make me never trust a Contractor unless I write the
> specifications and I enforce them before the Contractor sees a penny
> from me.
>
> William

Depends on when the hot water was last used. I've never timed it but
probably 30 seconds if it hasn't been used. Can take about two minutes to
get to the bathroom.

sf wrote:
> On Tue, 20 Oct 2015 15:29:13 -0400, Dave Smith
> > wrote:
>
>>> the size of water heater isn't your
>>> problem (unless you take long showers) - but the size of your pipes
>>> is. Either your pipes are corroded or just plain too small. Reroute
>>> them to a direct run and/or replace them with a larger size and your
>>> hot water will reach the faucet faster.
>>
>>
>>
>> Larger diameter pipe will not make the hot water come faster. On the
>> contrary, there will be more cold water in the pipes to be purged. I
>> suppose you could run massive pipes and huge fixtures, but there is
>> limited water pressure and the big restriction is at the faucet. The
>> more cold water there is sitting in the pipes, the longer it is going to
>> take to get hot.
>
> I will guarantee you that corroded pipes affect everything.
>

They're death on dish-wahsers and washing machines.

On 2015-10-20 5:48 PM, sf wrote:

>> Larger diameter pipe will not make the hot water come faster. On the
>> contrary, there will be more cold water in the pipes to be purged. I
>> suppose you could run massive pipes and huge fixtures, but there is
>> limited water pressure and the big restriction is at the faucet. The
>> more cold water there is sitting in the pipes, the longer it is going to
>> take to get hot.
>
> I will guarantee you that corroded pipes affect everything.

You can guarantee it but can you explain it?
The reason that it takes time for the water at the tap to come out hot
is that there is cold water sitting in the pipes. It was hot when it was
pumped into the pipes, but when the water flow stopped it sat there and
radiated heat to the air around the pipes. That happens in pipes of all
types. Most modern houses have copper of plastic pipes, and the last
time I checked, they did not have a problem with corrosion.

When the water has been in the pipes for a while the heat radiates and
the water cools. When you turn on the hot water tap at the end of the
pipe only cold water passes through it until the line has been purged of
cold and the hot water is coming through. If the pipes are a wider
diameter there will be a lot more volume of now cold water that has to
be purged through the pipes before the hot starts to come out.

On Tue, 20 Oct 2015 17:40:12 -0400, William > wrote:

>actually, you cannot stand water in your kitchen sink that will
>sterilize your dishes...150 degrees. Most modern dish washers have a
>heater that comes on to "sterilize" the dishes after they are washed.
>
>I believe if I built a new home, the "tankless" water heater is the
>way to go. No running out of hot water if someone enjoys he hot shower
>too much.
>
>
>William

They sanitize, not sterilize.

I'm an RN, and we had to learn all about what I call the "levels of
filth". First, we start with the most clean: "sterile". Defined as the
100% abscense of anything living. Sterile technique is why we can
perform so many surgeries with as low a rate of infection we now
enjoy.

Then from sterile, we talk about the lesser "clean" levels. "Sanitary"
comes just below sterile. Generally characterized by lack of visible
foreign material, and often treaterd with a sanitizing agent such as
chlorinated or quatrinary amonia rinse, or several other accepted
santiizing agents, such as sufficient heat for a sufficient time,
which can sometimes reach the sterile level, but not always.

Then we talk about clean, pretty clean, uncluttered, etc. And on down
to completely filthy!!

John Kuthe...

On Tuesday, October 20, 2015 at 11:57:19 AM UTC-10, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2015-10-20 5:48 PM, sf wrote:
>
> >> Larger diameter pipe will not make the hot water come faster. On the
> >> contrary, there will be more cold water in the pipes to be purged. I
> >> suppose you could run massive pipes and huge fixtures, but there is
> >> limited water pressure and the big restriction is at the faucet. The
> >> more cold water there is sitting in the pipes, the longer it is going to
> >> take to get hot.
> >
> > I will guarantee you that corroded pipes affect everything.
>
> You can guarantee it but can you explain it?
> The reason that it takes time for the water at the tap to come out hot
> is that there is cold water sitting in the pipes. It was hot when it was
> pumped into the pipes, but when the water flow stopped it sat there and
> radiated heat to the air around the pipes. That happens in pipes of all
> types. Most modern houses have copper of plastic pipes, and the last
> time I checked, they did not have a problem with corrosion.
>
> When the water has been in the pipes for a while the heat radiates and
> the water cools. When you turn on the hot water tap at the end of the
> pipe only cold water passes through it until the line has been purged of
> cold and the hot water is coming through. If the pipes are a wider
> diameter there will be a lot more volume of now cold water that has to
> be purged through the pipes before the hot starts to come out.

The long metal pipe also acts as an efficient heat exchanger. Hot water going into one end would come out cold on the other. It's a pretty cool effect - no pun intended.

On Tue, 20 Oct 2015 14:47:16 -0700 (PDT), Nancy2
> wrote:

> Susan, your way is the way I have done all the remodeling in my house .. Kitchen,
> two bathrooms, red room .. I do not know anyone at all that has a contractor pick out any
> of the items you mention.
>
> Everyone I know has done all their own choosing. I can't imagine allowing any
> contractor to do the choosing, even a known and respected contractor.
>
Maybe he was talking about buying a new home in a brand new community.
I have asked if something like where a stove is located can be changed
when the ground hadn't even been broken and the answer was no. When
it's that scenario, you can't blame the contractors - it's the builder
who dictates the terms.

--

sf

On 2015-10-20 6:06 PM, dsi1 wrote:

>> When the water has been in the pipes for a while the heat radiates
>> and the water cools. When you turn on the hot water tap at the end
>> of the pipe only cold water passes through it until the line has
>> been purged of cold and the hot water is coming through. If the
>> pipes are a wider diameter there will be a lot more volume of now
>> cold water that has to be purged through the pipes before the hot
>> starts to come out.
>
> The long metal pipe also acts as an efficient heat exchanger.

Actually, in this situation that would be inefficient, not efficient.




> Hot
> water going into one end would come out cold on the other. It's a
> pretty cool effect - no pun intended.
>
Sorry, but I had to look way to hard for the pun.

On Tuesday, October 20, 2015 at 12:09:11 PM UTC-10, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2015-10-20 6:06 PM, dsi1 wrote:
>
> >> When the water has been in the pipes for a while the heat radiates
> >> and the water cools. When you turn on the hot water tap at the end
> >> of the pipe only cold water passes through it until the line has
> >> been purged of cold and the hot water is coming through. If the
> >> pipes are a wider diameter there will be a lot more volume of now
> >> cold water that has to be purged through the pipes before the hot
> >> starts to come out.
> >
> > The long metal pipe also acts as an efficient heat exchanger.
>
> Actually, in this situation that would be inefficient, not efficient.
>

I have no idea what you mean. Aren't most heat exchangers fluids moving through skinny pipes? Isn't that how radiators and solar water heaters work?

>
>
>
> > Hot
> > water going into one end would come out cold on the other. It's a
> > pretty cool effect - no pun intended.
> >
> Sorry, but I had to look way to hard for the pun.