On 10/12/2015 10:50 PM, dsi1 wrote:
> On Monday, October 12, 2015 at 6:16:24 PM UTC-10, wrote:
>> On Monday, October 12, 2015 at 4:45:20 PM UTC-7, dsi1 wrote:
>>> On 10/12/2015 1:06 PM, Embudo wrote:
>>>> On 10/12/2015 4:11 PM, dsi1 wrote:
>>>>> The pakes really shook up the local white populace on the mainland who
>>>>> responded against the yellow peril with miscegenation laws and laws
>>>>> against further immigration. Those guys had it tough - not enough
>>>>> females! Over here, the pake men took Hawaiian women as wives and the
>>>>> rest is Hawaiian history.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dunno if you're much on historical fiction, but this was one heck of a
>>>> good book.
>>>>
>>>> Taught me the difference between the Issei and Nissei:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/014...=1&*entries*=0
>>>>
>>>> Heart Mountain Paperback - December 1, 1989
>>>> by Gretel Ehrlich
>>>>
>>>> From Publishers Weekly
>>>> This first novel builds itself around the WW II internment of some
>>>> 100,000 Japanese-Americans. Ehrlich's assiduous research is evident,
>>>> but, worthy as her intentions may be, her characters often are only
>>>> wafer-thin. "The novel succeeds less as a full-blooded work of fiction
>>>> than as a compassionate documentary," noted PW .
>>>> Copyright 1989 Reed Business Information, Inc.
>>>>
>>>> From Library Journal
>>>> When Japanese-Americans were relocated during World War II, about 10,000
>>>> were sent to Heart Mountain Relocation Camp in Wyoming.
>>
>> I worked for a fellow who was a kid in the camps. From Stockton, his
>> family managed to hang on to their fruit ranch. He grew up with Maxine
>> Hong Kingston, who wrote Tripmaster Monkey and other books.
>>
>> Anyhow, I learned that Japanese-Americans in Hawaii were not interned
>> because there were too darned many. And if you agreed to move to the
>> Midwest and East Coast you could get out of the camps. This was the
>> situation of Japanese-Americans I knew in Chicago, and of my wife's
>> friend who grew up in Rochester NY.
>>
>>> I'm not much into fiction but I'll check it out. My dad had a somewhat
>>> different experience during the war. He was in high school on December
>>> 7, 1941 and saw the planes flying in. Surprisingly, quite a few of my
>>> friend's parents saw the attack. I always thought it strange that people
>>> would be up that early on a Sunday. His high school class would be sent
>>> on various projects in preparation for the expected invasion - which
>>> never came.
>>>
>>> When he joined the army, he was the only nisei in his unit. His sarge
>>> ordered him to not sleep in the barracks with the other guys. He had to
>>> go find places to sleep and when he did, he had one eye open at all
>>> times. Hee hee.
>>>
>>> My dad was able to travel all throughout the Pacific while he was in the
>>> Army and had many experiences. He's always been a guy that loved to
>>> travel the world and meet people and see things. These days he has a lot
>>> of trouble getting around so his days of travel are pretty much over but
>>> I'll always marvel at the times he had...
>>
>> This doesn't make a lot of sense unless you mean after WW II. The Army
>> was focused on Europe, except for the Army Air Corps. And the Army
>> put Japanese-Americans in Europe lest they turn out to be traitors after
>> all.
>
> You are completely correct about this. He was part of the Japan occupational forces so his chances of being shot at were slim - at least from the Japanese. He said he was once asked to go to the Philippines and of course he said "sure." He was about to get on the plane when an officer stopped him and said the guy sending him was a idiot. Those Filipinos would have shot my dad on sight! That would have been the end of me - also the start!
>


Wow.

That's fate in action!

On 10/12/2015 11:11 PM, dsi1 wrote:
> On Monday, October 12, 2015 at 6:16:24 PM UTC-10, wrote:
>>
>> This doesn't make a lot of sense unless you mean after WW II. The Army
>> was focused on Europe, except for the Army Air Corps. And the Army
>> put Japanese-Americans in Europe lest they turn out to be traitors after
>> all.
>
> The bushido code was a doctrine used by the warlords of Japan to control their army and stressed loyalty, duty, and honor, to their lords. The Japanese generals adopted the samurai code during the 20th century to control their troops. It was a most honorable thing and even the average Japanese citizen got caught up in it and believed that it embodied the Japanese national spirit.
>
> The story goes that General Hideki Tojo sent a letter to the Japanese-American soldiers in Hawaii encouraging them to swear undying loyalty to their country and their Shogun, FDR, and to fight with all their might. Well, that's how the story goes anyway. It just goes to show you that you should never believe your own PR.
>

Yet another wonderful insight that most of us would never have guessed at.

Looks like "The Last Samurai" wasn't so far off in tone or culture.

On Tuesday, October 13, 2015 at 11:22:41 AM UTC-4, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2015-10-13 10:56 AM, Helpful person wrote:
> > On Monday, October 12, 2015 at 9:21:36 PM UTC-4, sf wrote:
> >
> >> Agree! Guess he hasn't ever heard of Mongolian Lamb.
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> sf
> >
> > Mongolia isn't China.
> >
> >
> It used to be part of China.

And vice versa.

In any event, even though there's a national boundary between
China and Mongolia, culture doesn't generally respect those
artificial lines.

Cindy Hamilton

On 10/13/2015 9:22 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2015-10-13 10:56 AM, Helpful person wrote:
>> On Monday, October 12, 2015 at 9:21:36 PM UTC-4, sf wrote:
>>
>>> Agree! Guess he hasn't ever heard of Mongolian Lamb.
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> sf
>>
>> Mongolia isn't China.
>>
>>
> It used to be part of China.
>
And Canuckistan used to be part of the First Nations.

So?

On 10/13/2015 10:39 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> On Tuesday, October 13, 2015 at 11:22:41 AM UTC-4, Dave Smith wrote:
>> On 2015-10-13 10:56 AM, Helpful person wrote:
>>> On Monday, October 12, 2015 at 9:21:36 PM UTC-4, sf wrote:
>>>
>>>> Agree! Guess he hasn't ever heard of Mongolian Lamb.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> sf
>>>
>>> Mongolia isn't China.
>>>
>>>
>> It used to be part of China.
>
> And vice versa.
>
> In any event, even though there's a national boundary between
> China and Mongolia, culture doesn't generally respect those
> artificial lines.
>
> Cindy Hamilton
>

Did we respect the native Americans we displaced here?

As if...

On Tuesday, October 13, 2015 at 11:52:30 AM UTC-4, jmcquown wrote:
> On 10/13/2015 11:22 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
> > On 2015-10-13 10:56 AM, Helpful person wrote:
> >> On Monday, October 12, 2015 at 9:21:36 PM UTC-4, sf wrote:
> >>
> >>> Agree! Guess he hasn't ever heard of Mongolian Lamb.
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>>
> >>> sf
> >>
> >> Mongolia isn't China.
> >>
> >>
> > It used to be part of China.
> >
> Yep, used to be. Lots of things were once part of China.
>
> Ancient history. Gengihs Kahn.
>
> He founded the Mongol empire. Gee, it was suspiciously close to China.
>
> "He came to power by uniting many of the nomadic tribes of Northeast
> Asia. After founding the Mongol Empire and being proclaimed "Genghis
> Khan," he started the Mongol invasions that resulted in the conquest of
> most of Eurasia. These included raids or invasions of the Qara Khitai,
> Caucasus, Khwarezmid Empire, Western Xia and Jin dynasties. These
> campaigns were often accompanied by wholesale massacres of the civilian
> populations - especially in the Khwarezmian and Xia controlled lands. By
> the end of his life, the Mongol Empire occupied a substantial portion of
> Central Asia and China."
>
> Just check wikipedia, Helpful Person. Or you could just read a book
> about that bygone era.
>
> Jill

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. Are you saying that most of China used to be part of Mongolia! (Wikipedia usually gives a reasonable overview but is very unreliable in content.)

Mongolia is still not part of China. Neither is Texas part of Mexico.

http://www.richardfisher.com

On Tue, 13 Oct 2015 07:56:31 -0700 (PDT), Helpful person
> wrote:

> On Monday, October 12, 2015 at 9:21:36 PM UTC-4, sf wrote:
>
> > Agree! Guess he hasn't ever heard of Mongolian Lamb.
> >
> > --
> >
> > sf
>
> Mongolia isn't China.
>

Funny how the dish commonly shows up on Chinese restaurant menus
anyway.

--

sf

On 10/13/2015 12:59 PM, sf wrote:
> On Tue, 13 Oct 2015 07:56:31 -0700 (PDT), Helpful person
> > wrote:
>
>> On Monday, October 12, 2015 at 9:21:36 PM UTC-4, sf wrote:
>>
>>> Agree! Guess he hasn't ever heard of Mongolian Lamb.
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> sf
>>
>> Mongolia isn't China.
>>
>
> Funny how the dish commonly shows up on Chinese restaurant menus
> anyway.
>

On General Tso's orders, iirc...

;-)

Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> On Tuesday, October 13, 2015 at 11:22:41 AM UTC-4, Dave Smith wrote:
>> On 2015-10-13 10:56 AM, Helpful person wrote:
>>> On Monday, October 12, 2015 at 9:21:36 PM UTC-4, sf wrote:
>>>
>>>> Agree! Guess he hasn't ever heard of Mongolian Lamb.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> sf
>>>
>>> Mongolia isn't China.
>>>
>>>
>> It used to be part of China.
>
> And vice versa.
>
> In any event, even though there's a national boundary between
> China and Mongolia, culture doesn't generally respect those
> artificial lines.
>
> Cindy Hamilton
>

Define "artificial lines".

Would you be happier if they were proscribed by a river or dividing range?

Helpful person wrote:
> On Monday, October 12, 2015 at 9:21:36 PM UTC-4, sf wrote:
>
>> Agree! Guess he hasn't ever heard of Mongolian Lamb.
>>
>> --
>>
>> sf
>
> Mongolia isn't China.
>
> http://www.richardfisher.com
>
Well that was "helpful"...

On Tuesday, October 13, 2015 at 3:51:56 PM UTC-4, Qbert wrote:
> Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> > On Tuesday, October 13, 2015 at 11:22:41 AM UTC-4, Dave Smith wrote:
> >> On 2015-10-13 10:56 AM, Helpful person wrote:
> >>> On Monday, October 12, 2015 at 9:21:36 PM UTC-4, sf wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Agree! Guess he hasn't ever heard of Mongolian Lamb.
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>>
> >>>> sf
> >>>
> >>> Mongolia isn't China.
> >>>
> >>>
> >> It used to be part of China.
> >
> > And vice versa.
> >
> > In any event, even though there's a national boundary between
> > China and Mongolia, culture doesn't generally respect those
> > artificial lines.
> >
> > Cindy Hamilton
> >
>
> Define "artificial lines".
>
> Would you be happier if they were proscribed by a river or dividing range?

No, because people tend to cross the river, recipes in hand. A mountain
range might provide a more substantial barrier.

Cindy Hamilton

On Tue, 13 Oct 2015 13:51:43 -0600, Qbert > wrote:

> Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> > On Tuesday, October 13, 2015 at 11:22:41 AM UTC-4, Dave Smith wrote:
> >> On 2015-10-13 10:56 AM, Helpful person wrote:
> >>> On Monday, October 12, 2015 at 9:21:36 PM UTC-4, sf wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Agree! Guess he hasn't ever heard of Mongolian Lamb.
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>>
> >>>> sf
> >>>
> >>> Mongolia isn't China.
> >>>
> >>>
> >> It used to be part of China.
> >
> > And vice versa.
> >
> > In any event, even though there's a national boundary between
> > China and Mongolia, culture doesn't generally respect those
> > artificial lines.
> >
> > Cindy Hamilton
> >
>
> Define "artificial lines".
>
> Would you be happier if they were proscribed by a river or dividing range?

She's talking about political boundaries.


--

sf

On Tuesday, October 13, 2015 at 2:59:21 PM UTC-4, sf wrote:
> On Tue, 13 Oct 2015 07:56:31 -0700 (PDT), Helpful person:
>
> > On Monday, October 12, 2015 at 9:21:36 PM UTC-4, sf wrote:
> >
> > > Agree! Guess he hasn't ever heard of Mongolian Lamb.
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > sf
> >
> > Mongolia isn't China.
> >
>
> Funny how the dish commonly shows up on Chinese restaurant menus
> anyway.
>
> --
>
> sf

Only in the last 5 or 10 years. Well, if it makes you happy you can believe that Mongolia is part of China.

http://www.richardfisher.com

On Monday, October 12, 2015 at 11:03:25 PM UTC-10, Ophelia wrote:
> "dsi1" wrote in message
> ...
> > On Monday, October 12, 2015 at 5:49:10 AM UTC-10, Dave Smith wrote:
> >> On 2015-10-12 11:31 AM, Janet wrote:
> >> > In article >, gravesend10
> >> > @verizon.net says...
> >> >>
> >> >> On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 15:27:08 -0400, Dave Smith
> >> >
> >> >>> It was Dong Bei Mama on Geary Blvd in San Francisco. We only had the
> >> >>> two
> >> >>> dishes and some rice. There was a lot of food and we put a big dent
> >> >>> in
> >> >>> it because it was so good.
> >> >>
> >> >> Found their menu... not like any Chinese restaurant I've ever been
> >> >> to... no egg rolls, no chow mein, no spare ribs, no wonton soup, no
> >> >> egg drop soup, no lobster Cantonese, no duck... strange eatery,
> >> >> eerielly strange, I'd have passed.
> >> >
> >> > Cantonese is south China food.
> >> > Dong Bei, as the ad says, is in North east china, 2,000 miles away..
> >> > China shares boundaries with so many wildly different countries and
> >> > climates, its no wonder Chinese regional cuisines are so diverse
> >>
> >> I am guessing that since Hong Kong was an English colony it had more
> >> international interaction and that is why Cantonese cooking spread
> >> across the western world, as authentic as it may or may not have been.
> >> I sort of lost interest in that kind of food. I don't dislike it. I
> >> still eat it occasionally, but there are many other ethnic foods that I
> >> prefer. The kung pao was in small pieces, stir fried and served with a
> >> sauce and rice, but that it where the similarity ends. The lamb was
> >> thin strips of what was probably lamb shoulder, dredged in spices and
> >> corn starch and fried. It was amazing. It raised the bar for me when it
> >> comes to Chinese food.
> >
> > My guess is that it was the foods prepared by the immigrants that came to
> > North America just after the end of the American Civil War. The plantation
> > workers came to Hawaii around the same period and from the same
> > providence: Canton, which is now called Guangdong.
> >
> > The pakes really shook up the local white populace on the mainland who
> > responded against the yellow peril with miscegenation laws and laws
> > against further immigration. Those guys had it tough - not enough females!
> > Over here, the pake men took Hawaiian women as wives and the rest is
> > Hawaiian history.
>
> Do you speak Cantonese, Mr D?
>
> --
> http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

I do not speak Cantonese. The only people here that do are FOB Chinese. I used to go to Japanese school when I was a wee lad and probably learned some of the language but that's all gone now.

The immigrant experience in Hawaii is pretty much the same as in other countries. The first generation typically won't learn the language of their new home. The second generation born in the new land will be bilingual. The third and later generations will probably not know a thing about their mother tongue.

OTOH, the languages as spoken by the old-timers in Hawaii probably wouldn't be understood in the mother countries since it's the language of the poor, uneducated, plantation workers, typically in the dialect of one particular region. That "Japanese" of Hawaii was brought over mostly from Okinawa. It's the coarse, unrefined, language of farmers and laborers. It would be mostly gibberish to the man on the street on Tokyo.

The Chinese here had a closer affiliation with the Hawaiians than the Japanese ever did. My guess is that the Chinese men had to adapt and modify their language to a high degree to be able to communicate with their Hawaiian wives. Of course, everyone on this rock had to be able to communicate on some rudimentary level with everybody else. That's why Hawaiian pidgin English (the linguists would call it creole English) came to be. It's a chop suey mix of the languages of the people that live here. OTOH, these days, most everybody speaks English so pidgin no longer serves a function except to express ties to social groups. My guess is that the future of Hawaii language is going to be standard youth-speak.

Please excuse the long-winded response!

On Tuesday, October 13, 2015 at 6:19:23 AM UTC-10, Embudo wrote:
> On 10/12/2015 11:11 PM, dsi1 wrote:
> > On Monday, October 12, 2015 at 6:16:24 PM UTC-10, wrote:
> >>
> >> This doesn't make a lot of sense unless you mean after WW II. The Army
> >> was focused on Europe, except for the Army Air Corps. And the Army
> >> put Japanese-Americans in Europe lest they turn out to be traitors after
> >> all.
> >
> > The bushido code was a doctrine used by the warlords of Japan to control their army and stressed loyalty, duty, and honor, to their lords. The Japanese generals adopted the samurai code during the 20th century to control their troops. It was a most honorable thing and even the average Japanese citizen got caught up in it and believed that it embodied the Japanese national spirit.
> >
> > The story goes that General Hideki Tojo sent a letter to the Japanese-American soldiers in Hawaii encouraging them to swear undying loyalty to their country and their Shogun, FDR, and to fight with all their might. Well, that's how the story goes anyway. It just goes to show you that you should never believe your own PR.
> >
>
> Yet another wonderful insight that most of us would never have guessed at..
>
> Looks like "The Last Samurai" wasn't so far off in tone or culture.

The Bushido code was kind of a scam and the samurai were pretty much cannon fodder. Hee hee. You might like "When the Last Sword is Drawn." It's a lot less Tom Cruisy and Hollywoody.

On Tuesday, October 13, 2015 at 9:01:19 AM UTC-10, Embudo wrote:
> On 10/13/2015 12:59 PM, sf wrote:
> > On Tue, 13 Oct 2015 07:56:31 -0700 (PDT), Helpful person
> > > wrote:
> >
> >> On Monday, October 12, 2015 at 9:21:36 PM UTC-4, sf wrote:
> >>
> >>> Agree! Guess he hasn't ever heard of Mongolian Lamb.
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>>
> >>> sf
> >>
> >> Mongolia isn't China.
> >>
> >
> > Funny how the dish commonly shows up on Chinese restaurant menus
> > anyway.
> >
>
> On General Tso's orders, iirc...
>
> ;-)

I've never seen General Tso's Chicken on menus on the rock. My guess is that it originated in North America and hasn't moved towards the West yet.

On 10/13/2015 2:33 PM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> On Tuesday, October 13, 2015 at 3:51:56 PM UTC-4, Qbert wrote:
>> Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, October 13, 2015 at 11:22:41 AM UTC-4, Dave Smith wrote:
>>>> On 2015-10-13 10:56 AM, Helpful person wrote:
>>>>> On Monday, October 12, 2015 at 9:21:36 PM UTC-4, sf wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Agree! Guess he hasn't ever heard of Mongolian Lamb.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>> sf
>>>>>
>>>>> Mongolia isn't China.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> It used to be part of China.
>>>
>>> And vice versa.
>>>
>>> In any event, even though there's a national boundary between
>>> China and Mongolia, culture doesn't generally respect those
>>> artificial lines.
>>>
>>> Cindy Hamilton
>>>
>>
>> Define "artificial lines".
>>
>> Would you be happier if they were proscribed by a river or dividing range?
>
> No, because people tend to cross the river, recipes in hand. A mountain
> range might provide a more substantial barrier.
>
> Cindy Hamilton
>

A national boundary is a boundary regardless of how easy it is to cross.

On 10/13/2015 2:36 PM, sf wrote:
> On Tue, 13 Oct 2015 13:51:43 -0600, Qbert > wrote:
>
>> Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, October 13, 2015 at 11:22:41 AM UTC-4, Dave Smith wrote:
>>>> On 2015-10-13 10:56 AM, Helpful person wrote:
>>>>> On Monday, October 12, 2015 at 9:21:36 PM UTC-4, sf wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Agree! Guess he hasn't ever heard of Mongolian Lamb.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>> sf
>>>>>
>>>>> Mongolia isn't China.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> It used to be part of China.
>>>
>>> And vice versa.
>>>
>>> In any event, even though there's a national boundary between
>>> China and Mongolia, culture doesn't generally respect those
>>> artificial lines.
>>>
>>> Cindy Hamilton
>>>
>>
>> Define "artificial lines".
>>
>> Would you be happier if they were proscribed by a river or dividing range?
>
> She's talking about political boundaries.
>
>
I sort of got that...

;-)

Helpful person wrote:
sf wrote:
>
>> Agree! Guess he hasn't ever heard of Mongolian Lamb.
>>
>> sf
>
>Mongolia isn't China.

Figures big butt wouldn't know that, she doesn't know much about
anything. Mongolian cuisine is nothing like Chinese cuisine.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongolian_cuisine

On Tue, 13 Oct 2015 13:39:24 -0700 (PDT), Helpful person
> wrote:

> On Tuesday, October 13, 2015 at 2:59:21 PM UTC-4, sf wrote:
> > On Tue, 13 Oct 2015 07:56:31 -0700 (PDT), Helpful person:
> >
> > > On Monday, October 12, 2015 at 9:21:36 PM UTC-4, sf wrote:
> > >
> > > > Agree! Guess he hasn't ever heard of Mongolian Lamb.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > > sf
> > >
> > > Mongolia isn't China.
> > >
> >
> > Funny how the dish commonly shows up on Chinese restaurant menus
> > anyway.
> >
> > --
> >
> > sf
>
> Only in the last 5 or 10 years. Well, if it makes you happy you can believe that Mongolia is part of China.
>
I don't know what universe you live in but Mongolian lamb has been on
Chinese menu's (neighborhood takeout, no less - nothing fancy) the
last 30 years for sure. Maybe longer than that. You're just talking
nonsense.

--

sf

On Tue, 13 Oct 2015 14:26:23 -0700 (PDT), dsi1 >
wrote:

> I've never seen General Tso's Chicken on menus on the rock. My guess is that it originated in North America and hasn't moved towards the West yet.

I don't see it on menus either. It's a grocery store hot deli item
here. My Safeway sells it.

--

sf

On 10/13/2015 5:40 PM, sf wrote:
> On Tue, 13 Oct 2015 14:26:23 -0700 (PDT), dsi1 >
> wrote:
>
>> I've never seen General Tso's Chicken on menus on the rock. My guess is that it originated in North America and hasn't moved towards the West yet.
>
> I don't see it on menus either. It's a grocery store hot deli item
> here. My Safeway sells it.
>

It's ubiquitous 'round here.

It's over-fried chicken with a basic sauce.

"dsi1" > wrote in message
...
> On Monday, October 12, 2015 at 11:03:25 PM UTC-10, Ophelia wrote:
>> "dsi1" wrote in message
>> ...
>> > On Monday, October 12, 2015 at 5:49:10 AM UTC-10, Dave Smith wrote:
>> >> On 2015-10-12 11:31 AM, Janet wrote:
>> >> > In article >, gravesend10
>> >> > @verizon.net says...
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 15:27:08 -0400, Dave Smith
>> >> >
>> >> >>> It was Dong Bei Mama on Geary Blvd in San Francisco. We only had
>> >> >>> the
>> >> >>> two
>> >> >>> dishes and some rice. There was a lot of food and we put a big
>> >> >>> dent
>> >> >>> in
>> >> >>> it because it was so good.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Found their menu... not like any Chinese restaurant I've ever been
>> >> >> to... no egg rolls, no chow mein, no spare ribs, no wonton soup, no
>> >> >> egg drop soup, no lobster Cantonese, no duck... strange eatery,
>> >> >> eerielly strange, I'd have passed.
>> >> >
>> >> > Cantonese is south China food.
>> >> > Dong Bei, as the ad says, is in North east china, 2,000 miles
>> >> > away.
>> >> > China shares boundaries with so many wildly different countries
>> >> > and
>> >> > climates, its no wonder Chinese regional cuisines are so diverse
>> >>
>> >> I am guessing that since Hong Kong was an English colony it had more
>> >> international interaction and that is why Cantonese cooking spread
>> >> across the western world, as authentic as it may or may not have been.
>> >> I sort of lost interest in that kind of food. I don't dislike it. I
>> >> still eat it occasionally, but there are many other ethnic foods that
>> >> I
>> >> prefer. The kung pao was in small pieces, stir fried and served with
>> >> a
>> >> sauce and rice, but that it where the similarity ends. The lamb was
>> >> thin strips of what was probably lamb shoulder, dredged in spices and
>> >> corn starch and fried. It was amazing. It raised the bar for me when
>> >> it
>> >> comes to Chinese food.
>> >
>> > My guess is that it was the foods prepared by the immigrants that came
>> > to
>> > North America just after the end of the American Civil War. The
>> > plantation
>> > workers came to Hawaii around the same period and from the same
>> > providence: Canton, which is now called Guangdong.
>> >
>> > The pakes really shook up the local white populace on the mainland who
>> > responded against the yellow peril with miscegenation laws and laws
>> > against further immigration. Those guys had it tough - not enough
>> > females!
>> > Over here, the pake men took Hawaiian women as wives and the rest is
>> > Hawaiian history.
>>
>> Do you speak Cantonese, Mr D?
>>
>> --
>> http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/
>
> I do not speak Cantonese. The only people here that do are FOB Chinese. I
> used to go to Japanese school when I was a wee lad and probably learned
> some of the language but that's all gone now.
>
> The immigrant experience in Hawaii is pretty much the same as in other
> countries. The first generation typically won't learn the language of
> their new home. The second generation born in the new land will be
> bilingual. The third and later generations will probably not know a thing
> about their mother tongue.
>
> OTOH, the languages as spoken by the old-timers in Hawaii probably
> wouldn't be understood in the mother countries since it's the language of
> the poor, uneducated, plantation workers, typically in the dialect of one
> particular region. That "Japanese" of Hawaii was brought over mostly from
> Okinawa. It's the coarse, unrefined, language of farmers and laborers. It
> would be mostly gibberish to the man on the street on Tokyo.
>
> The Chinese here had a closer affiliation with the Hawaiians than the
> Japanese ever did. My guess is that the Chinese men had to adapt and
> modify their language to a high degree to be able to communicate with
> their Hawaiian wives. Of course, everyone on this rock had to be able to
> communicate on some rudimentary level with everybody else. That's why
> Hawaiian pidgin English (the linguists would call it creole English) came
> to be. It's a chop suey mix of the languages of the people that live here.
> OTOH, these days, most everybody speaks English so pidgin no longer serves
> a function except to express ties to social groups. My guess is that the
> future of Hawaii language is going to be standard youth-speak.
>
> Please excuse the long-winded response!

Not at all, it was most interesting and it made good sense, thank you Of
course it will change with each generation, especially when there has been a
mix of nationalities. I doubt if my grandparents could understand the
youth of today, without even having that mix

The reason I asked is because my granddaughter is studying Cantonese. We
had a wav file from her the other day in which she and her native Hong Kong
friend were having a conversation and it was fascinating. I am not too sure
how much use it will be to her when come comes home Order in a Chinese
restaurant maybe? ;-) Knowing her she will have plans all in hand and we
will be hearing all about them soon enough

What do you call a native of Hong Kong? ... Hong Kongese? .. although
actually she is in Macau now. Macauese?

)


--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/