On Thu, 30 May 2013 14:06:17 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:

> Anyway, I have no idea what the percentage is, but 99% is nuts.

It might be nuts for *some* industries; but read this quote
from the New York Times regarding the Long Island Railroad:

"Virtually every career employee €” as many as 97 percent in
one recent year €” applies for and gets disability payments
soon after retirement,".

REFERENCE:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/21/ny...anted=all&_r=0

Danny D > writes:

> On Thu, 30 May 2013 14:06:17 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:
>
>> Anyway, I have no idea what the percentage is, but 99% is nuts.
>
> It might be nuts for *some* industries; but read this quote
> from the New York Times regarding the Long Island Railroad:
>
> "Virtually every career employee €” as many as 97 percent in
> one recent year €” applies for and gets disability payments
> soon after retirement,".
>
> REFERENCE:
> http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/21/ny...anted=all&_r=0

That's 2008. The article mentions an investigation.
Here's one from 2012:

http://tinyurl.com/la8vfjo

where some of them are caught.

--
Dan Espen

On Thu, 30 May 2013 21:33:17 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:

> http://tinyurl.com/la8vfjo
> where some of them are caught.

Let's hope that this 97% number does not span
industries ... otherwise we're doomed.

Danny D > writes:

> On Thu, 30 May 2013 21:33:17 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:
>
>> http://tinyurl.com/la8vfjo
>> where some of them are caught.
>
> Let's hope that this 97% number does not span
> industries ... otherwise we're doomed.

The article is pretty clear isn't it?

It's the LIRR. (Long Island Rail Road.)
Rode it many times, BTW.

There's nothing there to suggest the problem goes beyond the LIRR,
in fact they cited other rail roads with much lower rates as evidence
something was wrong.

No need to invoke the doom monster.

--
Dan Espen

On Thu, 30 May 2013 23:25:51 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:

> No need to invoke the doom monster.

I know. Personally, I suspect 90% or so of disability claims are
bogus, but I have no facts to back that up.

All I know is that I worked with broken legs, and I never
took a day of disability in my life.

I can see if you're in a horrible car accident, with brain
damage, etc., or you're paralyzed, but, from my somewhat
naive experience with people, they're (mostly) faking it.

Again, I have no data (well, I *do* have the LIRR data, but we
must assume that almost 100% disability figure is an anomaly).

I *do* watch everyone who parks in the handicap spots though,
and I probably see 2% to 5% of them actually disabled, although
I fully realize they may simply be violating the spirit of the
agreement when other people use the plates who aren't the
officially disabled person.

For someone to suggest I'm on disability defies reason.

"Danny D" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 30 May 2013 23:25:51 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:
>
>> No need to invoke the doom monster.
>
> I know. Personally, I suspect 90% or so of disability claims are
> bogus, but I have no facts to back that up.
>
> All I know is that I worked with broken legs, and I never
> took a day of disability in my life.
>
> I can see if you're in a horrible car accident, with brain
> damage, etc., or you're paralyzed, but, from my somewhat
> naive experience with people, they're (mostly) faking it.
>
> Again, I have no data (well, I *do* have the LIRR data, but we
> must assume that almost 100% disability figure is an anomaly).
>
> I *do* watch everyone who parks in the handicap spots though,
> and I probably see 2% to 5% of them actually disabled, although
> I fully realize they may simply be violating the spirit of the
> agreement when other people use the plates who aren't the
> officially disabled person.
>
> For someone to suggest I'm on disability defies reason.

Aargh! People like you make my blood boil! There are plenty of
disabilities that aren't obvious. Some people have a heart problem or
something like that which means that they can't walk very far or very fast.
People don't have to *look* disabled to be so.

There are also mental illnesses that render people disabled. Those people
wouldn't likely need the handicapped parking spot unless there are other
issues there. I do know of several people who fall into this category.
Their minds just don't work in such a way that allow them to do a job on a
consistent basis.

"Julie Bove" > writes:

> "Danny D" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Thu, 30 May 2013 23:25:51 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:
>>
>>> No need to invoke the doom monster.
>>
>> I know. Personally, I suspect 90% or so of disability claims are
>> bogus, but I have no facts to back that up.
>>
>> All I know is that I worked with broken legs, and I never
>> took a day of disability in my life.

Broken legs heal. That's not a disability.

>> I can see if you're in a horrible car accident, with brain
>> damage, etc., or you're paralyzed, but, from my somewhat
>> naive experience with people, they're (mostly) faking it.
>>
>> Again, I have no data (well, I *do* have the LIRR data, but we
>> must assume that almost 100% disability figure is an anomaly).
>>
>> I *do* watch everyone who parks in the handicap spots though,
>> and I probably see 2% to 5% of them actually disabled, although
>> I fully realize they may simply be violating the spirit of the
>> agreement when other people use the plates who aren't the
>> officially disabled person.

Anecdotes are not data.
When you have a disabled person in the family you can get
disabled plates. You don't need to have a disabled person in the car
to use the plates.

>> For someone to suggest I'm on disability defies reason.
>
> Aargh! People like you make my blood boil! There are plenty of
> disabilities that aren't obvious. Some people have a heart problem or
> something like that which means that they can't walk very far or very fast.
> People don't have to *look* disabled to be so.
>
> There are also mental illnesses that render people disabled. Those people
> wouldn't likely need the handicapped parking spot unless there are other
> issues there. I do know of several people who fall into this category.
> Their minds just don't work in such a way that allow them to do a job on a
> consistent basis.

Yep.

Despite DD's other attempts to find out how things work,
in this case he just want's to believe the worst about people he doesn't
know.

Makes me wonder why despite his quirks, I've been trying to give him the
benefit of the doubt.

--
Dan Espen

On Thu, 30 May 2013 21:00:12 -0700, Julie Bove wrote:

>> For someone to suggest I'm on disability defies reason.
> Aargh! People like you make my blood boil!

My responses were all regarding this JoeBro statement:
> Let me guess. You are "retired" on disability.

On Fri, 31 May 2013 09:20:49 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:

> Broken legs heal. That's not a disability.

Agreed.

However, when I went to DMV, they said I could move to the front
of the line simply because I was on crutches. I refused, saying
I could wait in line just as long as anyone else, as it was only
fair to the people ahead of me.

> Anecdotes are not data.

I agreed with that and was very clear that my only statistics
(since I haven't researched the subject) are that almost 100%
of the retirees from a certain railroad for a certain year
were (and many still are) obtaining disability benefits.

I have (and said I had) very little experience with disabled
people, perhaps because my profession wasn't one which required
anything more than a working brain and fingers that can type.

> You don't need to have a disabled person in the car
> to use the plates.

I don't disagree one bit.

I had stated that, in other words; so I fully agree with you.

Plus, not all disabilities are overtly visible.

In addition, the drivers can be picking up disabled people who
are not yet in the vehicle, and for that, it's helpful to have
a convenient parking spot.

I just think there is fraud & corruption in government, and the
LIRR statistics show me that, in some instances, it's immense;
so for someone to intimate that I'm fraudulently retired on
disability is to cause an affront to my very soul.

I apologize for reacting to that comment; it was in a moment of
weakness where I felt I needed to defend myself. Mea culpa.

Danny D > writes:

> On Fri, 31 May 2013 09:20:49 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:
>
>> Broken legs heal. That's not a disability.
>
> Agreed.
>
> However, when I went to DMV, they said I could move to the front
> of the line simply because I was on crutches. I refused, saying
> I could wait in line just as long as anyone else, as it was only
> fair to the people ahead of me.
>
>> Anecdotes are not data.
>
> I agreed with that and was very clear that my only statistics
> (since I haven't researched the subject) are that almost 100%
> of the retirees from a certain railroad for a certain year
> were (and many still are) obtaining disability benefits.
>
> I have (and said I had) very little experience with disabled
> people, perhaps because my profession wasn't one which required
> anything more than a working brain and fingers that can type.
>
>> You don't need to have a disabled person in the car
>> to use the plates.
>
> I don't disagree one bit.
>
> I had stated that, in other words; so I fully agree with you.
>
> Plus, not all disabilities are overtly visible.
>
> In addition, the drivers can be picking up disabled people who
> are not yet in the vehicle, and for that, it's helpful to have
> a convenient parking spot.
>
> I just think there is fraud & corruption in government, and the
> LIRR statistics show me that, in some instances, it's immense;
> so for someone to intimate that I'm fraudulently retired on
> disability is to cause an affront to my very soul.

Sort of quasi-government. Originally private, then "bailed out"
by New York State.

> I apologize for reacting to that comment; it was in a moment of
> weakness where I felt I needed to defend myself. Mea culpa.

Thanks for showing some class.
You've restored my faith in you.

--
Dan Espen

On May 30, 8:51*pm, Danny D > wrote:
> On Thu, 30 May 2013 23:25:51 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:
> > No need to invoke the doom monster.
>
> I know. Personally, I suspect 90% or so of disability claims are
> bogus, but I have no facts to back that up.
>
> All I know is that I worked with broken legs, and I never
> took a day of disability in my life.
>
> I can see if you're in a horrible car accident, with brain
> damage, etc., or you're paralyzed, but, from my somewhat
> naive experience with people, they're (mostly) faking it.
>
> Again, I have no data (well, I *do* have the LIRR data, but we
> must assume that almost 100% disability figure is an anomaly).
>
> I *do* watch everyone who parks in the handicap spots though,
> and I probably see 2% to 5% of them actually disabled, although
> I fully realize they may simply be violating the spirit of the
> agreement when other people use the plates who aren't the
> officially disabled person.
>
> For someone to suggest I'm on disability defies reason.

>>>>For someone to suggest I'm on disability defies reason. <<<<

Well, actually, no...

I figure they're thinking a "disability of a different sort",

On May 31, 6:20*am, Dan Espen > wrote:
> "Julie Bove" > writes:
> > "Danny D" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> On Thu, 30 May 2013 23:25:51 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:
>
> >>> No need to invoke the doom monster.
>
> >> I know. Personally, I suspect 90% or so of disability claims are
> >> bogus, but I have no facts to back that up.
>
> >> All I know is that I worked with broken legs, and I never
> >> took a day of disability in my life.
>
> Broken legs heal. *That's not a disability.
>
> >> I can see if you're in a horrible car accident, with brain
> >> damage, etc., or you're paralyzed, but, from my somewhat
> >> naive experience with people, they're (mostly) faking it.
>
> >> Again, I have no data (well, I *do* have the LIRR data, but we
> >> must assume that almost 100% disability figure is an anomaly).
>
> >> I *do* watch everyone who parks in the handicap spots though,
> >> and I probably see 2% to 5% of them actually disabled, although
> >> I fully realize they may simply be violating the spirit of the
> >> agreement when other people use the plates who aren't the
> >> officially disabled person.
>
> Anecdotes are not data.
> When you have a disabled person in the family you can get
> disabled plates. *You don't need to have a disabled person in the car
> to use the plates.
>
> >> For someone to suggest I'm on disability defies reason.
>
> > Aargh! *People like you make my blood boil! *There are plenty of
> > disabilities that aren't obvious. *Some people have a heart problem or
> > something like that which means that they can't walk very far or very fast.
> > People don't have to *look* disabled to be so.
>
> > There are also mental illnesses that render people disabled. *Those people
> > wouldn't likely need the handicapped parking spot unless there are other
> > issues there. *I do know of several people who fall into this category.
> > Their minds just don't work in such a way that allow them to do a job on a
> > consistent basis.
>
> Yep.
>
> Despite DD's other attempts to find out how things work,
> in this case he just want's to believe the worst about people he doesn't
> know.
>
> Makes me wonder why despite his quirks, I've been trying to give him the
> benefit of the doubt.
>
> --
> Dan Espen

>>>>Broken legs heal. That's not a disability. <<<

But thinking that a broken leg is a disability seems more like a real
disability.
That & thinking that a huge % of the population is faking disability.

On Fri, 31 May 2013 10:45:50 -0700, DD_BobK wrote:

> they're thinking a "disability of a different sort",

On Fri, 31 May 2013 09:20:49 -0400, Dan Espen >
wrote:

> > "Danny D" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >>
> >> All I know is that I worked with broken legs, and I never
> >> took a day of disability in my life.
>
> Broken legs heal. That's not a disability.

They are called a temporary disability.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On Fri, 31 May 2013 14:33:27 +0000 (UTC), Danny D >
wrote:

> On Fri, 31 May 2013 09:20:49 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:
>
> > Broken legs heal. That's not a disability.
>
> Agreed.

Wrong. Why are you still crossposting?

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

DD_BobK wrote, On 5/31/2013 1:47 PM:

> But thinking that a broken leg is a disability seems more like a real
> disability.


> That & thinking that a huge % of the population is faking disability.

Seems reasonable to me. Although "faking it" may be a bit strong
considering how dedicated government is to giving it away.

As an example, my older brother (now 88) picked up some shrapnel from a
Japanese grenade in the Philippines It wasn't a major deal, he walked
to the aid station and most of it was picked out; however, it got him a
small - 10%? - disability. Well, 3-4 years ago he got a letter out of
the blue informing him that it was being increased to 100%.

And a large percentage of the population IS receiving some sort of
unearned government money. By "unearned" I mean something for which the
recipient was not taxed.

There is also all that income that is off the books.

And, of course, that old favorite: the inflated insurance claim. Which
pales into insignificance in the face of the inflated medical bill (to
the insurance company or medicare). I remember when you could get a doc
for a house call for about eight bucks; I had a stress test a few years
ago, took about three hours (mostly waiting), administered by a tech,
saw the doc for 10 minutes for results. The bill to the insurance
company was a smidge under $10,000, no idea how much they actually paid.

We are all familiar with the proliferation of the "I'm going to get it
while the getting is good" politicians (see "Detroit" for a shining
example). Not to mention those (all) from local to federal that receive
ridiculously high wages and benefits.

Basically, we - the entire world? - have turned into a nation of grifters.


--
dadiOH

"Dan Espen" > wrote in message
...
> "Julie Bove" > writes:
>
>> "Danny D" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> On Thu, 30 May 2013 23:25:51 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:
>>>
>>>> No need to invoke the doom monster.
>>>
>>> I know. Personally, I suspect 90% or so of disability claims are
>>> bogus, but I have no facts to back that up.
>>>
>>> All I know is that I worked with broken legs, and I never
>>> took a day of disability in my life.
>
> Broken legs heal. That's not a disability.
>
>>> I can see if you're in a horrible car accident, with brain
>>> damage, etc., or you're paralyzed, but, from my somewhat
>>> naive experience with people, they're (mostly) faking it.
>>>
>>> Again, I have no data (well, I *do* have the LIRR data, but we
>>> must assume that almost 100% disability figure is an anomaly).
>>>
>>> I *do* watch everyone who parks in the handicap spots though,
>>> and I probably see 2% to 5% of them actually disabled, although
>>> I fully realize they may simply be violating the spirit of the
>>> agreement when other people use the plates who aren't the
>>> officially disabled person.
>
> Anecdotes are not data.
> When you have a disabled person in the family you can get
> disabled plates. You don't need to have a disabled person in the car
> to use the plates.

My mom qualified for Handicap Plates
She had a total of 4 hip replacement surgeries throughout her life.
Once I drove the van to go pick her up, and used the handicapped slot so she
would have to walk far.
Some idiot started ranting at me about my not being handicapped
Meanwhile she walked to the van on her own using 2 canes at the time.
She asked the idiot if there was a problem.
The idiot went "oh" and slunk away.

"Attila Iskander" > wrote in message
...
> My mom qualified for Handicap Plates
> She had a total of 4 hip replacement surgeries throughout her life.
> Once I drove the van to go pick her up, and used the handicapped slot so
> she would have to walk far.
> Some idiot started ranting at me about my not being handicapped
> Meanwhile she walked to the van on her own using 2 canes at the time.
> She asked the idiot if there was a problem.
> The idiot went "oh" and slunk away.

Yes. We use the placards for my MIL and dad when we have to transport them.