Leafy greens such as lettuce, spinach and kale accounted for the most
food-borne illnesses nationwide from 1998 through 2008, the Centers
for Disease Control and Prevention reports.

Dairy products accounted for the most hospitalizations. The most
deaths were linked to poultry.

Epidemiologists at the CDC found that leafy greens accounted for 23%
of illnesses and dairy products 14%. However, when they looked only at
hospitalizations, the lineup was different: Dairy products were
responsible for 16% of hospitalizations followed by leafy vegetables
at 14% and poultry 12%. For deaths, poultry accounted for 19%, then
dairy products at 10%.

....Griffin cautions that the dairy product numbers are misleading.
Many of the outbreaks linked to dairy products involve unpasteurized
milk and cream, but the vast majority of Americans drink and eat only
pasteurized dairy products.

"The weight of the raw milk outbreaks is making it look as if dairy is
a bigger source of illness than we actually think it is," she said.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...lness/1872557/

Moe DeLoughan > wrote in
:

> Many of the outbreaks linked to dairy products involve
> unpasteurized milk and cream

Outbreaks of what? Satisfaction?

You can buy unpasteurized cheese in Canada and there is no recorded
outbreak of anything but satisfaction. The federal government
dropped that nonsense after it was clearly demonstrated by Quebec
fromageries that cheese from unpasteurized milk is harmless.

--

Traditions are group efforts to keep the unexpected
from happening.

-- Barbara Tober

On Tue, 29 Jan 2013 13:09:09 -0600, Michel Boucher
> wrote:

>Moe DeLoughan > wrote in
:
>
>> Many of the outbreaks linked to dairy products involve
>> unpasteurized milk and cream
>
>Outbreaks of what? Satisfaction?

Well said

>You can buy unpasteurized cheese in Canada and there is no recorded
>outbreak of anything but satisfaction. The federal government
>dropped that nonsense after it was clearly demonstrated by Quebec
>fromageries that cheese from unpasteurized milk is harmless.

Shameful the way responsible raw milk producers are treated,
particularly in Australia and USA.

On 1/29/2013 1:09 PM, Michel Boucher wrote:
> Moe DeLoughan > wrote in
> :
>
>> Many of the outbreaks linked to dairy products involve
>> unpasteurized milk and cream
>
> Outbreaks of what? Satisfaction?
>
> You can buy unpasteurized cheese in Canada and there is no recorded
> outbreak of anything but satisfaction. The federal government
> dropped that nonsense after it was clearly demonstrated by Quebec
> fromageries that cheese from unpasteurized milk is harmless.
>

From the same article:

"A study published last year that looked at 13 years of outbreaks
linked to dairy products found that unpasteurized milk, cheese and
cream were 150 times more likely to cause food-borne illness outbreaks
than pasteurized dairy foods and that such outbreaks had a
hospitalization rate 13 times higher than those involving pasteurized
dairy products."

So, no. They're *not* safer than pasteurized dairy products - at least
not in the US. It's not at all surprising if you think about it - when
you consume raw dairy products, you're putting your health into the
hands of the individual running that particular farming operation.
That trust can and often is misplaced.

On Tue, 29 Jan 2013 14:04:06 -0600, Moe DeLoughan >
wrote:

>On 1/29/2013 1:09 PM, Michel Boucher wrote:
>> Moe DeLoughan > wrote in
>> :
>>
>>> Many of the outbreaks linked to dairy products involve
>>> unpasteurized milk and cream
>>
>> Outbreaks of what? Satisfaction?
>>
>> You can buy unpasteurized cheese in Canada and there is no recorded
>> outbreak of anything but satisfaction. The federal government
>> dropped that nonsense after it was clearly demonstrated by Quebec
>> fromageries that cheese from unpasteurized milk is harmless.
>>
>
> From the same article:
>
>"A study published last year that looked at 13 years of outbreaks
>linked to dairy products found that unpasteurized milk, cheese and
>cream were 150 times more likely to cause food-borne illness outbreaks
>than pasteurized dairy foods and that such outbreaks had a
>hospitalization rate 13 times higher than those involving pasteurized
>dairy products."
>
>So, no. They're *not* safer than pasteurized dairy products - at least
>not in the US. It's not at all surprising if you think about it - when
>you consume raw dairy products, you're putting your health into the
>hands of the individual running that particular farming operation.
>That trust can and often is misplaced.

Oh dear, where to start with what's wrong with this comment?

I suggest you do a LOT more research - and realise there are
vested/powerful interests that are against raw milk for their own
selfish reasons...

On 1/29/2013 2:50 PM, Jeßus wrote:
> On Tue, 29 Jan 2013 14:04:06 -0600, Moe DeLoughan >
> wrote:
>
>> On 1/29/2013 1:09 PM, Michel Boucher wrote:
>>> Moe DeLoughan > wrote in
>>> :
>>>
>>>> Many of the outbreaks linked to dairy products involve
>>>> unpasteurized milk and cream
>>>
>>> Outbreaks of what? Satisfaction?
>>>
>>> You can buy unpasteurized cheese in Canada and there is no recorded
>>> outbreak of anything but satisfaction. The federal government
>>> dropped that nonsense after it was clearly demonstrated by Quebec
>>> fromageries that cheese from unpasteurized milk is harmless.
>>>
>>
>> From the same article:
>>
>> "A study published last year that looked at 13 years of outbreaks
>> linked to dairy products found that unpasteurized milk, cheese and
>> cream were 150 times more likely to cause food-borne illness outbreaks
>> than pasteurized dairy foods and that such outbreaks had a
>> hospitalization rate 13 times higher than those involving pasteurized
>> dairy products."
>>
>> So, no. They're *not* safer than pasteurized dairy products - at least
>> not in the US. It's not at all surprising if you think about it - when
>> you consume raw dairy products, you're putting your health into the
>> hands of the individual running that particular farming operation.
>> That trust can and often is misplaced.
>
> Oh dear, where to start with what's wrong with this comment?
>
> I suggest you do a LOT more research - and realise there are
> vested/powerful interests that are against raw milk for their own
> selfish reasons...
>

Oh, I get it. You're another alt-med magical raw milk nut, aren't you?
You don't believe people are in it for the money, and don't give a
damn who they hurt. You think only Big Pharma and Big Farmers are
evil, and that Big Alt-Med is pure as the driven snow.

The truth is, the only motivation for farmers to provide raw milk is
money from gullible fools.

We settled the public health issue regarding raw milk over a hundred
years ago. Nothing has changed since then. Germs haven't magically
gone away. Neither has cowshit and dirty hands/teats.

Moe DeLoughan > wrote in
:

> So, no. They're *not* safer than pasteurized dairy products -
> at least not in the US. It's not at all surprising if you
> think about it - when you consume raw dairy products, you're
> putting your health into the hands of the individual running
> that particular farming operation. That trust can and often is
> misplaced.

Or it's a fear tactic used by the milk boards to keep you buying
their severely taste-depleted crap.

What is the actual number of this 150 times greater (assuming there
is any truth to this unsubstantiated claim)? 6? 8? 150,000,000?
Until you know that actual number, you know nothing.

You're obviously not adressing this in a critical fashion.

--

Traditions are group efforts to keep the unexpected
from happening.

-- Barbara Tober

Moe DeLoughan > wrote in
:

> We settled the public health issue regarding raw milk over a
> hundred years ago. Nothing has changed since then. Germs
> haven't magically gone away. Neither has cowshit and dirty
> hands/teats.

So you admit to having a persistently dirty milk supply?

--

Traditions are group efforts to keep the unexpected
from happening.

-- Barbara Tober

Susan > wrote in
:

> "If you eliminate the cheese and you look at the number of
> illnesses rather than outbreaks, there's no difference between
> states that do and do not allow raw milk sales."

You have to eliminate the cheese because cheese is cooked milk for
the most part (excluding very soft cheeses).

--

Traditions are group efforts to keep the unexpected
from happening.

-- Barbara Tober

On Tue, 29 Jan 2013 15:15:32 -0600, Moe DeLoughan >
wrote:

>On 1/29/2013 2:50 PM, Jeßus wrote:
>> On Tue, 29 Jan 2013 14:04:06 -0600, Moe DeLoughan >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 1/29/2013 1:09 PM, Michel Boucher wrote:
>>>> Moe DeLoughan > wrote in
>>>> :
>>>>
>>>>> Many of the outbreaks linked to dairy products involve
>>>>> unpasteurized milk and cream
>>>>
>>>> Outbreaks of what? Satisfaction?
>>>>
>>>> You can buy unpasteurized cheese in Canada and there is no recorded
>>>> outbreak of anything but satisfaction. The federal government
>>>> dropped that nonsense after it was clearly demonstrated by Quebec
>>>> fromageries that cheese from unpasteurized milk is harmless.
>>>>
>>>
>>> From the same article:
>>>
>>> "A study published last year that looked at 13 years of outbreaks
>>> linked to dairy products found that unpasteurized milk, cheese and
>>> cream were 150 times more likely to cause food-borne illness outbreaks
>>> than pasteurized dairy foods and that such outbreaks had a
>>> hospitalization rate 13 times higher than those involving pasteurized
>>> dairy products."
>>>
>>> So, no. They're *not* safer than pasteurized dairy products - at least
>>> not in the US. It's not at all surprising if you think about it - when
>>> you consume raw dairy products, you're putting your health into the
>>> hands of the individual running that particular farming operation.
>>> That trust can and often is misplaced.
>>
>> Oh dear, where to start with what's wrong with this comment?
>>
>> I suggest you do a LOT more research - and realise there are
>> vested/powerful interests that are against raw milk for their own
>> selfish reasons...
>>
>
>Oh, I get it. You're another alt-med magical raw milk nut, aren't you?
>You don't believe people are in it for the money, and don't give a
>damn who they hurt. You think only Big Pharma and Big Farmers are
>evil, and that Big Alt-Med is pure as the driven snow.

Wow, it's almost like you know me


>The truth is, the only motivation for farmers to provide raw milk is
>money from gullible fools.

Unlike the motivation of those who pasteurise? Just being
intentionally flippant here, as your comment makes little sense.

>We settled the public health issue regarding raw milk over a hundred
>years ago. Nothing has changed since then. Germs haven't magically
>gone away. Neither has cowshit and dirty hands/teats.

"We", as in you and some other people 'settled' the matter, did ya?
I've been drinking raw milk for nearly five years now and no problems
here. There hasn't been any real evidence that raw milk is any more
dangerous than pasteurised milk, in fact I'd say it's quite the
opposite.

Moe DeLoughan wrote:
> Leafy greens such as lettuce, spinach and kale accounted for the most
> food-borne illnesses nationwide from 1998 through 2008, the Centers
> for Disease Control and Prevention reports.

Well seeing as how we're into 2013 now, eat up!
>
> Dairy products accounted for the most hospitalizations. The most
> deaths were linked to poultry.

Since I can't eat those things, I'm safe too!
>
> Epidemiologists at the CDC found that leafy greens accounted for 23%
> of illnesses and dairy products 14%. However, when they looked only at
> hospitalizations, the lineup was different: Dairy products were
> responsible for 16% of hospitalizations followed by leafy vegetables
> at 14% and poultry 12%. For deaths, poultry accounted for 19%, then
> dairy products at 10%.
>
> ...Griffin cautions that the dairy product numbers are misleading.
> Many of the outbreaks linked to dairy products involve unpasteurized
> milk and cream, but the vast majority of Americans drink and eat only
> pasteurized dairy products.
>
> "The weight of the raw milk outbreaks is making it look as if dairy is
> a bigger source of illness than we actually think it is," she said.
>
> http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...lness/1872557/

Okay then.

Michel Boucher wrote:
> Moe DeLoughan > wrote in
> :
>
>> Many of the outbreaks linked to dairy products involve
>> unpasteurized milk and cream
>
> Outbreaks of what? Satisfaction?
>
Okay. Now please tell me how to clean the bean with bacon soup off of my
monitor?

> You can buy unpasteurized cheese in Canada and there is no recorded
> outbreak of anything but satisfaction. The federal government
> dropped that nonsense after it was clearly demonstrated by Quebec
> fromageries that cheese from unpasteurized milk is harmless.

You can buy it here in WA too if you know where to get it. But... Seeing
as how my dad's grandparents had a dairy farm and my mom was raised on a
farm, both of them advised me never to buy the raw stuff. They think it's
not safe. Then again, my dad thinks potato peels aren't safe. Dunno.

Jeßus wrote:
> On Tue, 29 Jan 2013 13:09:09 -0600, Michel Boucher
> > wrote:
>
>> Moe DeLoughan > wrote in
>> :
>>
>>> Many of the outbreaks linked to dairy products involve
>>> unpasteurized milk and cream
>>
>> Outbreaks of what? Satisfaction?
>
> Well said
>
>> You can buy unpasteurized cheese in Canada and there is no recorded
>> outbreak of anything but satisfaction. The federal government
>> dropped that nonsense after it was clearly demonstrated by Quebec
>> fromageries that cheese from unpasteurized milk is harmless.
>
> Shameful the way responsible raw milk producers are treated,
> particularly in Australia and USA.

My dad used to go to England on occasion for work. He would always bring me
back After Eights. And while you can get those here now, in no way shape or
form do they taste the same. The imported ones are sooo much better. He
said it is because of their milk there.

On Tue, 29 Jan 2013 20:59:02 -0800, "Julie Bove"
> wrote:

> Moe DeLoughan wrote:
> > Leafy greens such as lettuce, spinach and kale accounted for the most
> > food-borne illnesses nationwide from 1998 through 2008, the Centers
> > for Disease Control and Prevention reports.
>
> Well seeing as how we're into 2013 now, eat up!
> >
>
I have eaten bags of leafy greens in the last week and I'm still
standing. The latest mix that I totally love is spinach, bok choy,
red and green chard. I plan to buy another bag of it soon and add it
to soup next... maybe even tomorrow.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

sf wrote:
> On Tue, 29 Jan 2013 20:59:02 -0800, "Julie Bove"
> > wrote:
>
>> Moe DeLoughan wrote:
>>> Leafy greens such as lettuce, spinach and kale accounted for the
>>> most food-borne illnesses nationwide from 1998 through 2008, the
>>> Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reports.
>>
>> Well seeing as how we're into 2013 now, eat up!
>>>
>>
> I have eaten bags of leafy greens in the last week and I'm still
> standing. The latest mix that I totally love is spinach, bok choy,
> red and green chard. I plan to buy another bag of it soon and add it
> to soup next... maybe even tomorrow.

I must say that I am leery of the bagged stuff because there have been food
poisoning issues but... It's still the most economical way for me to get
the kind of salad that I want. I have not seenthe mix of which you speak.
May I ask what brand it is? Angela *loves* the baby Swiss chard and it's
hard to find any bags that have a lot in it. She doesn't like spinach
though so I would have to pick that out. Not sure she has ever had any raw
bok choy. I have tried a few times to put it in a stir fry but nobody in
this house is fond of stir fry so that never goes over well.

Seems almost every time I buy a whole head of lettuce or cabbage, some goes
to waste. We just can't eat it all before it goes bad. And really I prefer
a mix of greens.

On Tue, 29 Jan 2013 22:53:31 -0800, "Julie Bove"
> wrote:

> I must say that I am leery of the bagged stuff because there have been food
> poisoning issues but... It's still the most economical way for me to get
> the kind of salad that I want. I have not seenthe mix of which you speak.
> May I ask what brand it is?

I buy it at Safeway, but it's available elsewhere too. I think I saw
Walmart and Super Target listed. I've tossed the bag and don't
remember the name, but I've mentioned it in a couple of other threads
in the past few days. I'll post the name for you when I replenish my
stock.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On Tue, 29 Jan 2013 22:53:31 -0800, "Julie Bove"
> wrote:

> Seems almost every time I buy a whole head of lettuce or cabbage, some goes
> to waste. We just can't eat it all before it goes bad. And really I prefer
> a mix of greens.

PS: I'm not a cabbage eater either. I buy it for pulled pork
sandwiches and fish tacos. I would have leftovers even if I could buy
half a head (which is unheard of these days), so I roast the rest with
another meal - I actually enjoy roasted cabbage.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On Tuesday, January 29, 2013 1:47:49 PM UTC-6, Jeßus wrote:
> On Tue, 29 Jan 2013 13:09:09 -0600, Michel Boucher
>
> > wrote:
>
>
>
> >Moe DeLoughan > wrote in
>
> :
>
> >
>
> >> Many of the outbreaks linked to dairy products involve
>
> >> unpasteurized milk and cream
>
> >
>
> >Outbreaks of what? Satisfaction?
>
>
>
> Well said
>
>
>
> >You can buy unpasteurized cheese in Canada and there is no recorded
>
> >outbreak of anything but satisfaction. The federal government
>
> >dropped that nonsense after it was clearly demonstrated by Quebec
>
> >fromageries that cheese from unpasteurized milk is harmless.
>
>
>
> Shameful the way responsible raw milk producers are treated,
>
> particularly in Australia and USA.

Pasteurized milk is so delicious that it's hard to imagine just about anything being better, but raw milk tastes even better. The big danger to me is that I'd get fat because it is so delicious that I couldn't restrain myself.

--Bryan

On Tuesday, January 29, 2013 6:08:31 PM UTC-6, Jeßus wrote:
> On Tue, 29 Jan 2013 15:15:32 -0600, Moe DeLoughan >
>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> >On 1/29/2013 2:50 PM, Jeßus wrote:
>
> >> On Tue, 29 Jan 2013 14:04:06 -0600, Moe DeLoughan >
>
> >> wrote:
>
> >>
>
> >>> On 1/29/2013 1:09 PM, Michel Boucher wrote:
>
> >>>> Moe DeLoughan > wrote in
>
> >>>> :
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>>> Many of the outbreaks linked to dairy products involve
>
> >>>>> unpasteurized milk and cream
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>> Outbreaks of what? Satisfaction?
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>> You can buy unpasteurized cheese in Canada and there is no recorded
>
> >>>> outbreak of anything but satisfaction. The federal government
>
> >>>> dropped that nonsense after it was clearly demonstrated by Quebec
>
> >>>> fromageries that cheese from unpasteurized milk is harmless.
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>
>
> >>> From the same article:
>
> >>>
>
> >>> "A study published last year that looked at 13 years of outbreaks
>
> >>> linked to dairy products found that unpasteurized milk, cheese and
>
> >>> cream were 150 times more likely to cause food-borne illness outbreaks
>
> >>> than pasteurized dairy foods and that such outbreaks had a
>
> >>> hospitalization rate 13 times higher than those involving pasteurized
>
> >>> dairy products."
>
> >>>
>
> >>> So, no. They're *not* safer than pasteurized dairy products - at least
>
> >>> not in the US. It's not at all surprising if you think about it - when
>
> >>> you consume raw dairy products, you're putting your health into the
>
> >>> hands of the individual running that particular farming operation.
>
> >>> That trust can and often is misplaced.
>
> >>
>
> >> Oh dear, where to start with what's wrong with this comment?
>
> >>
>
> >> I suggest you do a LOT more research - and realise there are
>
> >> vested/powerful interests that are against raw milk for their own
>
> >> selfish reasons...
>
> >>
>
> >
>
> >Oh, I get it. You're another alt-med magical raw milk nut, aren't you?
>
> >You don't believe people are in it for the money, and don't give a
>
> >damn who they hurt. You think only Big Pharma and Big Farmers are
>
> >evil, and that Big Alt-Med is pure as the driven snow.
>
>
>
> Wow, it's almost like you know me
>
>
>
>
>
> >The truth is, the only motivation for farmers to provide raw milk is
>
> >money from gullible fools.
>
>
>
> Unlike the motivation of those who pasteurise? Just being
>
> intentionally flippant here, as your comment makes little sense.
>
>
>
> >We settled the public health issue regarding raw milk over a hundred
>
> >years ago. Nothing has changed since then. Germs haven't magically
>
> >gone away. Neither has cowshit and dirty hands/teats.
>
>
>
> "We", as in you and some other people 'settled' the matter, did ya?
>
> I've been drinking raw milk for nearly five years now and no problems
>
> here. There hasn't been any real evidence that raw milk is any more
>
> dangerous than pasteurised milk, in fact I'd say it's quite the
>
> opposite.

Heck, I believe that Pasteurization does kill stuff that might make one sick, but the reason that I don't seek out raw milk is the cost, $7-$9/gallon as opposed to $2.68.

--Bryan

On Wed, 30 Jan 2013 10:24:25 -0800 (PST), Bryan
> wrote:

>On Tuesday, January 29, 2013 6:08:31 PM UTC-6, Jeßus wrote:
>> On Tue, 29 Jan 2013 15:15:32 -0600, Moe DeLoughan >
>>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> >On 1/29/2013 2:50 PM, Jeßus wrote:
>>
>> >> On Tue, 29 Jan 2013 14:04:06 -0600, Moe DeLoughan >
>>
>> >> wrote:
>>
>> >>
>>
>> >>> On 1/29/2013 1:09 PM, Michel Boucher wrote:
>>
>> >>>> Moe DeLoughan > wrote in
>>
>> >>>> :
>>
>> >>>>
>>
>> >>>>> Many of the outbreaks linked to dairy products involve
>>
>> >>>>> unpasteurized milk and cream
>>
>> >>>>
>>
>> >>>> Outbreaks of what? Satisfaction?
>>
>> >>>>
>>
>> >>>> You can buy unpasteurized cheese in Canada and there is no recorded
>>
>> >>>> outbreak of anything but satisfaction. The federal government
>>
>> >>>> dropped that nonsense after it was clearly demonstrated by Quebec
>>
>> >>>> fromageries that cheese from unpasteurized milk is harmless.
>>
>> >>>>
>>
>> >>>
>>
>> >>> From the same article:
>>
>> >>>
>>
>> >>> "A study published last year that looked at 13 years of outbreaks
>>
>> >>> linked to dairy products found that unpasteurized milk, cheese and
>>
>> >>> cream were 150 times more likely to cause food-borne illness outbreaks
>>
>> >>> than pasteurized dairy foods and that such outbreaks had a
>>
>> >>> hospitalization rate 13 times higher than those involving pasteurized
>>
>> >>> dairy products."
>>
>> >>>
>>
>> >>> So, no. They're *not* safer than pasteurized dairy products - at least
>>
>> >>> not in the US. It's not at all surprising if you think about it - when
>>
>> >>> you consume raw dairy products, you're putting your health into the
>>
>> >>> hands of the individual running that particular farming operation.
>>
>> >>> That trust can and often is misplaced.
>>
>> >>
>>
>> >> Oh dear, where to start with what's wrong with this comment?
>>
>> >>
>>
>> >> I suggest you do a LOT more research - and realise there are
>>
>> >> vested/powerful interests that are against raw milk for their own
>>
>> >> selfish reasons...
>>
>> >>
>>
>> >
>>
>> >Oh, I get it. You're another alt-med magical raw milk nut, aren't you?
>>
>> >You don't believe people are in it for the money, and don't give a
>>
>> >damn who they hurt. You think only Big Pharma and Big Farmers are
>>
>> >evil, and that Big Alt-Med is pure as the driven snow.
>>
>>
>>
>> Wow, it's almost like you know me
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >The truth is, the only motivation for farmers to provide raw milk is
>>
>> >money from gullible fools.
>>
>>
>>
>> Unlike the motivation of those who pasteurise? Just being
>>
>> intentionally flippant here, as your comment makes little sense.
>>
>>
>>
>> >We settled the public health issue regarding raw milk over a hundred
>>
>> >years ago. Nothing has changed since then. Germs haven't magically
>>
>> >gone away. Neither has cowshit and dirty hands/teats.
>>
>>
>>
>> "We", as in you and some other people 'settled' the matter, did ya?
>>
>> I've been drinking raw milk for nearly five years now and no problems
>>
>> here. There hasn't been any real evidence that raw milk is any more
>>
>> dangerous than pasteurised milk, in fact I'd say it's quite the
>>
>> opposite.
>
>Heck, I believe that Pasteurization does kill stuff that might make one sick, but the reason that I don't seek out raw milk is the cost, $7-$9/gallon as opposed to $2.68.

Pasteurisation does do that - but it also kills the milk's own inbuilt
natural ability to do the same job (I'd argue a better job of it).

Yes, it can be quite expensive to buy, luckily for me I don't have to
buy it... incidentally, sale of raw milk is illegal here in Australia.
In Aus, that's gotten around by selling raw milk as 'bath milk' -
about $8 for a 2L bottle.

On Tue, 29 Jan 2013 21:02:15 -0800, "Julie Bove"
> wrote:

>Jeßus wrote:
>> On Tue, 29 Jan 2013 13:09:09 -0600, Michel Boucher
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> Moe DeLoughan > wrote in
>>> :
>>>
>>>> Many of the outbreaks linked to dairy products involve
>>>> unpasteurized milk and cream
>>>
>>> Outbreaks of what? Satisfaction?
>>
>> Well said
>>
>>> You can buy unpasteurized cheese in Canada and there is no recorded
>>> outbreak of anything but satisfaction. The federal government
>>> dropped that nonsense after it was clearly demonstrated by Quebec
>>> fromageries that cheese from unpasteurized milk is harmless.
>>
>> Shameful the way responsible raw milk producers are treated,
>> particularly in Australia and USA.
>
>My dad used to go to England on occasion for work. He would always bring me
>back After Eights. And while you can get those here now, in no way shape or
>form do they taste the same. The imported ones are sooo much better. He
>said it is because of their milk there.

Could be. Could also be the type of sweetener used too?

On Tue, 29 Jan 2013 17:34:32 -0600, Michel Boucher
> wrote:

>Moe DeLoughan > wrote in
:
>
>> So, no. They're *not* safer than pasteurized dairy products -
>> at least not in the US. It's not at all surprising if you
>> think about it - when you consume raw dairy products, you're
>> putting your health into the hands of the individual running
>> that particular farming operation. That trust can and often is
>> misplaced.
>
>Or it's a fear tactic used by the milk boards to keep you buying
>their severely taste-depleted crap.
>
>What is the actual number of this 150 times greater (assuming there
>is any truth to this unsubstantiated claim)? 6? 8? 150,000,000?
>Until you know that actual number, you know nothing.
>
>You're obviously not adressing this in a critical fashion.

Between 1993 and 2006 60% (73 out of 121) dairy related outbreaks were
linked to raw milk products. The 73 raw milk related outbreaks resulted
in 1,571 cases, 202 hospitalizations, and 2 deaths.


http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/18/3/pdfs/11-1370.pdf

Robert Klute > wrote in
:

>>You're obviously not adressing this in a critical fashion.
>
> Between 1993 and 2006 60% (73 out of 121) dairy related
> outbreaks were linked to raw milk products. The 73 raw milk
> related outbreaks resulted in 1,571 cases, 202
> hospitalizations, and 2 deaths.
>
> http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/18/3/pdfs/11-1370.pdf

I'm no closer to knowing what the nature of these outbreaks is, but
I'm guessing e. coli.

And pasteurization will not protect you from everything, Viz the
following article from the Journal of Food Protection, 2012:

Widespread listeriosis outbreak attributable to pasteurized cheese,
which led to extensive cross-contamination affecting cheese
retailers, Quebec, Canada, 2008.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22221357

The problem is that pasteurization kills the good as well as the
bad bacteria, and the good bacteria never come back.

--

Traditions are group efforts to keep the unexpected
from happening.

-- Barbara Tober

On Thu, 31 Jan 2013 17:04:09 -0600, Michel Boucher
> wrote:

>Robert Klute > wrote in
:
>
>>>You're obviously not adressing this in a critical fashion.
>>
>> Between 1993 and 2006 60% (73 out of 121) dairy related
>> outbreaks were linked to raw milk products. The 73 raw milk
>> related outbreaks resulted in 1,571 cases, 202
>> hospitalizations, and 2 deaths.
>>
>> http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/18/3/pdfs/11-1370.pdf
>
>I'm no closer to knowing what the nature of these outbreaks is, but
>I'm guessing e. coli.

Non-pasteurized outbreak cause
54% Campylocbacter
22% Salmonella
13% E. coli
4% Brucella
4% Listeria
3% Shigella

Pasteurized outbreak cause (incomplete reporting)
44% norovirus
20% Salmonella
13% Campylobacter
10% Staphylococcus aureus
3% Listeria, Clostridium p., Bacillus c, or Shigella

My newspaper said Poultry was the main culprit in current food borne illness. Rabbit food (fresh salad fixings) come in number two. Dont think most folks have enough access to raw milk to make it a factor.