When you think of osso buco...
 

"ViLco" > ha scritto nel messaggio
>>> Agreed, but of all the veal, the shank was cheaper than other parts.
>
>> This doesn't change the fact that it was still expensive also in the
>> past centuries. The only part which could end up on a worker's family
>> table were the
>
> Forgot that one: the innards.

Also in remote rural France. There were people who went to their graves
without once tasting meat. My neighbors don't revel in fruit, because their
ancestors grew it as a cash crop.

I only meant that compared to euro 18 for a meaty piece of veal the shank
used to be cheap, but now gram for gram it may be the most costly part.

When you think of osso buco...
 

i guess your definition is different than in the us, the calf doesn't have
to even be at term, and most of the veal in the us until the last few years
was calves taken from milk cows at a very early age. my mother and now
sister have seperate cows for milk. Lee
"ViLco" > wrote in message
...
> Storrmmee wrote:
>
>> as the daughter of a cattle farmer, veal was available when something
>> went wrong and there wasn't a ready buyer... better than wasting the
>> calf entirely, Lee
>
> Cattle farmer and owner, I'd say, and you obviously didn't need the work
> and milk from that animal. Here it was different from there, way
> different: Italy has never had the vaste pastures of north america, the
> land is small and was almost all exploited since more than one century
> ago, thus both vegetables and cattle have always been way more expensive
> than there in the US. A cow eats a lot of vegetables to grow up until veal
> age/status, one can not throw it all away if he could not get a lot of
> money back by selling it, and only rich families could buy it.
>
>

When you think of osso buco...
 

i am not sure about bread, we don't purchase it often, and something i find
odd is that cows in italy are fed vegetables? not grass/hay grain? Lee
"ViLco" > wrote in message
...
> Giusi wrote:
>
>>> Cattle farmer and owner, I'd say, and you obviously didn't need the
>>> work and milk from that animal. Here it was different from there, way
>>> different: Italy has never had the vaste pastures of north america,
>>> the land is small and was almost all exploited since more than one
>>> century ago, thus both vegetables and cattle have always been way
>>> more expensive than there in the US. A cow eats a lot of vegetables
>>> to grow up until veal age/status, one can not throw it all away if
>>> he could not get a lot of money back by selling it, and only rich
>>> families could buy it.
>
>> Agreed, but of all the veal, the shank was cheaper than other parts.
>
>
> This doesn't change the fact that it was still expensive also in the past
> centuries. The only part which could end up on a worker's family table
> were the
>
>> Also the breast or pancetta di vitello. I could buy that for ?9.95 4
>> years ago, but now they cut it in strips and call it scottadita and
>> charge as much as a roast.
>
> In the last ten years there's a strong perception of stores trying to
> mercilessly rip us out of our money, prices go up with almost no reason.
> Look at bread, for example, here it went from 3 to 4.5+ euro/kg in the
> last five years and this is a 50% price increase: almost 10% a year, which
> is plain ridiculous, more than 3 times the national inflation yearly rate.
>
>
>

When you think of osso buco...
 

An Italian contadino would never consider eating meat he could sell in those
days. He may not even have had the right5 unde3r the mezzadria. The system
was so different in every single way that you can never compare them. It's
like a sharecropper killing off a calf from the owner's cow.

"Storrmmee" > ha scritto nel messaggio
...
>i guess your definition is different than in the us, the calf doesn't have
>to even be at term, and most of the veal in the us until the last few years
>was calves taken from milk cows at a very early age. my mother and now
>sister have seperate cows for milk. Lee
> "ViLco" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Storrmmee wrote:
>>
>>> as the daughter of a cattle farmer, veal was available when something
>>> went wrong and there wasn't a ready buyer... better than wasting the
>>> calf entirely, Lee
>>
>> Cattle farmer and owner, I'd say, and you obviously didn't need the work
>> and milk from that animal. Here it was different from there, way
>> different: Italy has never had the vaste pastures of north america, the
>> land is small and was almost all exploited since more than one century
>> ago, thus both vegetables and cattle have always been way more expensive
>> than there in the US. A cow eats a lot of vegetables to grow up until
>> veal age/status, one can not throw it all away if he could not get a lot
>> of money back by selling it, and only rich families could buy it.
>>
>>
>
>

When you think of osso buco...
 

Vegetatation. Vilco speaks and write English very very well, but some
things translate hard.

"Storrmmee" > ha scritto nel messaggio
...
>i am not sure about bread, we don't purchase it often, and something i find
>odd is that cows in italy are fed vegetables? not grass/hay grain? Lee
> "ViLco" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Giusi wrote:
>>
>>>> Cattle farmer and owner, I'd say, and you obviously didn't need the
>>>> work and milk from that animal. Here it was different from there, way
>>>> different: Italy has never had the vaste pastures of north america,
>>>> the land is small and was almost all exploited since more than one
>>>> century ago, thus both vegetables and cattle have always been way
>>>> more expensive than there in the US. A cow eats a lot of vegetables
>>>> to grow up until veal age/status, one can not throw it all away if
>>>> he could not get a lot of money back by selling it, and only rich
>>>> families could buy it.
>>
>>> Agreed, but of all the veal, the shank was cheaper than other parts.
>>
>>
>> This doesn't change the fact that it was still expensive also in the past
>> centuries. The only part which could end up on a worker's family table
>> were the
>>
>>> Also the breast or pancetta di vitello. I could buy that for ?9.95 4
>>> years ago, but now they cut it in strips and call it scottadita and
>>> charge as much as a roast.
>>
>> In the last ten years there's a strong perception of stores trying to
>> mercilessly rip us out of our money, prices go up with almost no reason.
>> Look at bread, for example, here it went from 3 to 4.5+ euro/kg in the
>> last five years and this is a 50% price increase: almost 10% a year,
>> which is plain ridiculous, more than 3 times the national inflation
>> yearly rate.
>>
>>
>>
>
>

When you think of osso buco...
 

Storrmmee wrote:

> i am not sure about bread, we don't purchase it often, and something
> i find odd is that cows in italy are fed vegetables? not grass/hay
> grain?

I wrote vegetables thinking that word in the italian way "vegetale":
everything which is is organic and not animal. Grass, grains and everything
from fruit to trees. What's the english word, "vegetal"?

When you think of osso buco...
 

Giusi wrote:

> Vegetatation. Vilco speaks and write English very very well, but some
> things translate hard.

Expecially vegetable and vegetation. When an italians hears "Do you want
vegetables on the pizza?" it sounds to him as if he was getting asked "Do
you want vegetation on your pizza?".
Kind of hilarious

When you think of osso buco...
 

basic culteral difference then, most of the calves sold for veal were done
so to avoid the problem of feeding them, Lee
"Giusi" > wrote in message
...
> An Italian contadino would never consider eating meat he could sell in
> those days. He may not even have had the right5 unde3r the mezzadria.
> The system was so different in every single way that you can never compare
> them. It's like a sharecropper killing off a calf from the owner's cow.
>
> "Storrmmee" > ha scritto nel messaggio
> ...
>>i guess your definition is different than in the us, the calf doesn't have
>>to even be at term, and most of the veal in the us until the last few
>>years was calves taken from milk cows at a very early age. my mother and
>>now sister have seperate cows for milk. Lee
>> "ViLco" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Storrmmee wrote:
>>>
>>>> as the daughter of a cattle farmer, veal was available when something
>>>> went wrong and there wasn't a ready buyer... better than wasting the
>>>> calf entirely, Lee
>>>
>>> Cattle farmer and owner, I'd say, and you obviously didn't need the work
>>> and milk from that animal. Here it was different from there, way
>>> different: Italy has never had the vaste pastures of north america, the
>>> land is small and was almost all exploited since more than one century
>>> ago, thus both vegetables and cattle have always been way more expensive
>>> than there in the US. A cow eats a lot of vegetables to grow up until
>>> veal age/status, one can not throw it all away if he could not get a lot
>>> of money back by selling it, and only rich families could buy it.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

When you think of osso buco...
 

Giusi wrote:

> An Italian contadino would never consider eating meat he could sell
> in those days. He may not even have had the right5 unde3r the
> mezzadria. The system was so different in every single way that you
> can never compare them. It's like a sharecropper killing off a calf
> from the owner's cow.

Here mezzadria was the only way for the vast majority of people working in
the fields.
Something tells me it was not the case in North America.

When you think of osso buco...
 

oh ok makes sense Lee
"Giusi" > wrote in message
...
> Vegetatation. Vilco speaks and write English very very well, but some
> things translate hard.
>
> "Storrmmee" > ha scritto nel messaggio
> ...
>>i am not sure about bread, we don't purchase it often, and something i
>>find odd is that cows in italy are fed vegetables? not grass/hay grain?
>>Lee
>> "ViLco" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Giusi wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Cattle farmer and owner, I'd say, and you obviously didn't need the
>>>>> work and milk from that animal. Here it was different from there, way
>>>>> different: Italy has never had the vaste pastures of north america,
>>>>> the land is small and was almost all exploited since more than one
>>>>> century ago, thus both vegetables and cattle have always been way
>>>>> more expensive than there in the US. A cow eats a lot of vegetables
>>>>> to grow up until veal age/status, one can not throw it all away if
>>>>> he could not get a lot of money back by selling it, and only rich
>>>>> families could buy it.
>>>
>>>> Agreed, but of all the veal, the shank was cheaper than other parts.
>>>
>>>
>>> This doesn't change the fact that it was still expensive also in the
>>> past centuries. The only part which could end up on a worker's family
>>> table were the
>>>
>>>> Also the breast or pancetta di vitello. I could buy that for ?9.95 4
>>>> years ago, but now they cut it in strips and call it scottadita and
>>>> charge as much as a roast.
>>>
>>> In the last ten years there's a strong perception of stores trying to
>>> mercilessly rip us out of our money, prices go up with almost no reason.
>>> Look at bread, for example, here it went from 3 to 4.5+ euro/kg in the
>>> last five years and this is a 50% price increase: almost 10% a year,
>>> which is plain ridiculous, more than 3 times the national inflation
>>> yearly rate.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

When you think of osso buco...
 

ps i guess part of why it was drawing my attention is that i don't ever even
think of translation issues where he is concerned because he is so good at
it, Lee
"Giusi" > wrote in message
...
> Vegetatation. Vilco speaks and write English very very well, but some
> things translate hard.
>
> "Storrmmee" > ha scritto nel messaggio
> ...
>>i am not sure about bread, we don't purchase it often, and something i
>>find odd is that cows in italy are fed vegetables? not grass/hay grain?
>>Lee
>> "ViLco" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Giusi wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Cattle farmer and owner, I'd say, and you obviously didn't need the
>>>>> work and milk from that animal. Here it was different from there, way
>>>>> different: Italy has never had the vaste pastures of north america,
>>>>> the land is small and was almost all exploited since more than one
>>>>> century ago, thus both vegetables and cattle have always been way
>>>>> more expensive than there in the US. A cow eats a lot of vegetables
>>>>> to grow up until veal age/status, one can not throw it all away if
>>>>> he could not get a lot of money back by selling it, and only rich
>>>>> families could buy it.
>>>
>>>> Agreed, but of all the veal, the shank was cheaper than other parts.
>>>
>>>
>>> This doesn't change the fact that it was still expensive also in the
>>> past centuries. The only part which could end up on a worker's family
>>> table were the
>>>
>>>> Also the breast or pancetta di vitello. I could buy that for ?9.95 4
>>>> years ago, but now they cut it in strips and call it scottadita and
>>>> charge as much as a roast.
>>>
>>> In the last ten years there's a strong perception of stores trying to
>>> mercilessly rip us out of our money, prices go up with almost no reason.
>>> Look at bread, for example, here it went from 3 to 4.5+ euro/kg in the
>>> last five years and this is a 50% price increase: almost 10% a year,
>>> which is plain ridiculous, more than 3 times the national inflation
>>> yearly rate.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

When you think of osso buco...
 

vegitation sorry i never even think of your having to translate as you do it
so well, Lee
"ViLco" > wrote in message
...
> Storrmmee wrote:
>
>> i am not sure about bread, we don't purchase it often, and something
>> i find odd is that cows in italy are fed vegetables? not grass/hay
>> grain?
>
> I wrote vegetables thinking that word in the italian way "vegetale":
> everything which is is organic and not animal. Grass, grains and
> everything from fruit to trees. What's the english word, "vegetal"?
>
>

When you think of osso buco...
 

Storrmmee wrote:

> basic culteral difference then, most of the calves sold for veal were
> done so to avoid the problem of feeding them, Lee

Obvious: if land is cheap then grass and grains will be cheap then veal will
be cheap then you'll be able to find someone who will buy it. But if land is
expensive then grass and grains will be expensive then veal will be
expensive then you be able won't find someone who will buy it, apart some
very few rich households.

When you think of osso buco...
 

and along with all that i rather think that the amount of cattle in a herd
is probably smaller there than here, Lee
"ViLco" > wrote in message
...
> Storrmmee wrote:
>
>> basic culteral difference then, most of the calves sold for veal were
>> done so to avoid the problem of feeding them, Lee
>
> Obvious: if land is cheap then grass and grains will be cheap then veal
> will be cheap then you'll be able to find someone who will buy it. But if
> land is expensive then grass and grains will be expensive then veal will
> be expensive then you be able won't find someone who will buy it, apart
> some very few rich households.
>
>
>

When you think of osso buco...
 

"ViLco" > ha scritto nel messaggio
> Storrmmee wrote:
>
>> i am not sure about bread, we don't purchase it often, and something
>> i find odd is that cows in italy are fed vegetables? not grass/hay
>> grain?
>
> I wrote vegetables thinking that word in the italian way "vegetale":
> everything which is is organic and not animal. Grass, grains and
> everything from fruit to trees. What's the english word, "vegetal"?

Rings a bell. When playing twenty questyions the first question is usually
"Is it animal, mineral or vegetable?"

When you think of osso buco...
 

Storrmmee wrote:

> ps i guess part of why it was drawing my attention is that i don't
> ever even think of translation issues where he is concerned because
> he is so good at it, Lee

Thanks Lee! I still get confused by tricky words such as "vegetable"

When you think of osso buco...
 

Everything is re3lative. The population in the US is over 300 million, in
Italy just over 60 million. The territory is around the size of California.
It's densely populated here, but leave a city and within moments you are in
country. Suburban sprawl here is clusters of mid to high rises at transport
stops, not miles of small homes plopped on land. Saturday I drove to a
meeting in Cortona over the mountains. There were parts of the mountain
drive where there was no evidence of human life, just miles of colored trees
in mountains and valleys.
It is all different.
"Storrmmee" > ha scritto nel messaggio
...
> and along with all that i rather think that the amount of cattle in a herd
> is probably smaller there than here, Lee
> "ViLco" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Storrmmee wrote:
>>
>>> basic culteral difference then, most of the calves sold for veal were
>>> done so to avoid the problem of feeding them, Lee
>>
>> Obvious: if land is cheap then grass and grains will be cheap then veal
>> will be cheap then you'll be able to find someone who will buy it. But if
>> land is expensive then grass and grains will be expensive then veal will
>> be expensive then you be able won't find someone who will buy it, apart
>> some very few rich households.
>>
>>
>>
>
>

When you think of osso buco...
 

Storrmmee wrote:

> and along with all that i rather think that the amount of cattle in a
> herd is probably smaller there than here, Lee

Vert true, the average stable size here was about a dozen cows or alike. The
big stables with hundreds if not thousands of beast are a recent thing.

When you think of osso buco...
 

Steve Pope wrote:

>>> I was guessing it is on the regular menu at Buca Giovanni (SF)
>>> and I was right.

>> I've never eaten there, thanks for the pointer.

> They've been around forever. I have not been there for about
> a decade, but unless they have changed, they are are a pretty good,
> decidedly un-Californicated northern Italian place. Lots
> of venison, rabbit, heavy sauces, etc. Great if that's what you want.

And they serve bolognese sauce over the correct pasta format too: "ribbon
noodles", aka tagliatelle, instead of nonsensical spaghetti. Even the
puttanesca is as it should: tomato, olives, capers and anchovies. It's got
to be a good place.

When you think of osso buco...
 

On 11/7/2011 6:27 AM, ViLco wrote:
> Storrmmee wrote:
>
>> basic culteral difference then, most of the calves sold for veal were
>> done so to avoid the problem of feeding them, Lee
>
> Obvious: if land is cheap then grass and grains will be cheap then veal will
> be cheap then you'll be able to find someone who will buy it. But if land is
> expensive then grass and grains will be expensive then veal will be
> expensive then you be able won't find someone who will buy it, apart some
> very few rich households.

It doesn't follow, then, that beef is cheaper than veal. I think the
expense of veal has to do with the method by which it's raised, which
is also why many people will not eat veal.

nancy

When you think of osso buco...
 

"Nancy Young" <email@replyto> ha scritto nel messaggio
, ViLco wrote:
>> Storrmmee wrote:
>>
>>> basic culteral difference then, most of the calves sold for veal were
>>> done so to avoid the problem of feeding them, Lee
>>
>> Obvious: if land is cheap then grass and grains will be cheap then veal
>> will
>> be cheap then you'll be able to find someone who will buy it. But if land
>> is
>> expensive then grass and grains will be expensive then veal will be
>> expensive then you be able won't find someone who will buy it, apart some
>> very few rich households.
>
> It doesn't follow, then, that beef is cheaper than veal. I think the
> expense of veal has to do with the method by which it's raised, which
> is also why many people will not eat veal.

Not here, Nancy. White veal is against the law in all the EU. Beef almost
doesn't exist IMO, because the animals are under 30 months in age, so
they're really what you'd call baby beef. Here they call it vitellone. The
only mature beasts are within a family, an old milk cow maybe. You cannot
sell it because of mad cow disease possibilities.

When you think of osso buco...
 

that is part of the reason i read news groups, learning about different
cultures is a wonderful thing to me, just the difference in a small thing
like veal makes me know i am not the only lifestyle going, i mean it would
have never occurred to me that it might have always been expensive... when i
was a child in the late sixties i remember my grandfather going to the
auction to buy "milk calves" those calves that were taken away from the
milkers and sold so he could raise them he always bought five, he fed them
and in the fall he sold four to make back the feed money and auction money
and hopefully ad enough to pay for the butcher of the fifth, not the best
meat for eating but it kept them fed, Lee
"ViLco" > wrote in message
...
> Storrmmee wrote:
>
>> ps i guess part of why it was drawing my attention is that i don't
>> ever even think of translation issues where he is concerned because
>> he is so good at it, Lee
>
> Thanks Lee! I still get confused by tricky words such as "vegetable"
>
>

When you think of osso buco...
 

i bet that was a beautiful drive, one of the few things i miss seeing is the
leaves turning in fall, Lee
"Giusi" > wrote in message
...
> Everything is re3lative. The population in the US is over 300 million, in
> Italy just over 60 million. The territory is around the size of
> California. It's densely populated here, but leave a city and within
> moments you are in country. Suburban sprawl here is clusters of mid to
> high rises at transport stops, not miles of small homes plopped on land.
> Saturday I drove to a meeting in Cortona over the mountains. There were
> parts of the mountain drive where there was no evidence of human life,
> just miles of colored trees in mountains and valleys.
> It is all different.
> "Storrmmee" > ha scritto nel messaggio
> ...
>> and along with all that i rather think that the amount of cattle in a
>> herd is probably smaller there than here, Lee
>> "ViLco" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Storrmmee wrote:
>>>
>>>> basic culteral difference then, most of the calves sold for veal were
>>>> done so to avoid the problem of feeding them, Lee
>>>
>>> Obvious: if land is cheap then grass and grains will be cheap then veal
>>> will be cheap then you'll be able to find someone who will buy it. But
>>> if land is expensive then grass and grains will be expensive then veal
>>> will be expensive then you be able won't find someone who will buy it,
>>> apart some very few rich households.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

When you think of osso buco...
 

my father is a very small farmer, he has two/three bulls and eighty breeders
to a hundred breeders at any one time, he is into effeciency farming so its
all arranged so one/two people can do all the work, he has cows that are as
pampered as most people
's horses, his tiny farm supports him and my mom and largely feeds them with
the gardens, Lee
"ViLco" > wrote in message
...
> Storrmmee wrote:
>
>> and along with all that i rather think that the amount of cattle in a
>> herd is probably smaller there than here, Lee
>
> Vert true, the average stable size here was about a dozen cows or alike.
> The big stables with hundreds if not thousands of beast are a recent
> thing.
>
>

When you think of osso buco...
 

On Mon, 7 Nov 2011 14:50:51 +0100, "ViLco" > wrote:

> sf wrote:
>
> >> Here in Emilia we don't use gremolada but add
> >> tomato preserve and peas,
>
> > What is tomato preserve (home made or store bought)? I'm assuming
> > it's not tomato jam. I found something about tomato preserves in the
> > New York Times, but it's sweet - not something I'd consider adding to
> > a savory dish. If that's okay, then adding sweetened canned tomatoes
> > is too. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/24/ma.../24food-t.html
>
> It's made of just tomatoes, and optionally salt. In my area it's done like
> this: first one boils the tomatoes for about 15 minutes or when the skins
> start to break, not more otherwise they'd turni into mashed tomatoes. Then
> one passes them through a hand-crank operated separator which separates pulp
> and juice from skins and seeds. The resulting juice and pulp get then salted
> and jarred and the jars are boiled to make them airtight (using pickling
> caps). My mother and sister still make their one in summer and it usually
> lasts for a good part of the year, working about 200-250 pounds of tomatoes
> they grow near here. When it's over they buy the one in stores like
> Provvista Sugo by De Rica or many other brands. In these commercial versions
> the ingredient list is much longer than just "tomato".
>
Thanks, I could do that while making the dish - but I wouldn't bother
to can them because I don't grow tomatoes and don't buy them is large
enough quantities.


--
All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt.

When you think of osso buco...
 

Storrmmee wrote:

> something else i just noticed, it seems from what is written that in
> italy the beef is used for milk, meat and work, not so here in the
> us, differing breeds for these three tastks for the most part, Lee

There are many breeds which are multi-purpose, but then there are also
breeds which get used just for meat production, like limousine or chianina:
after they first give birth, they get butchered.

When you think of osso buco...
 

interesting, our breeds for this are very specific, even if like my father,
he has cross bred but all are the meat types, Lee
"ViLco" > wrote in message
...
> Storrmmee wrote:
>
>> something else i just noticed, it seems from what is written that in
>> italy the beef is used for milk, meat and work, not so here in the
>> us, differing breeds for these three tastks for the most part, Lee
>
> There are many breeds which are multi-purpose, but then there are also
> breeds which get used just for meat production, like limousine or
> chianina: after they first give birth, they get butchered.
>
>

When you think of osso buco...
 

Ranée at Arabian Knits wrote:
>
> Veal was cheap here. It was a by product of the milk industry. I
> have no idea if that was the case elsewhere, but that was the case here
> until fairly recently.

The idea - Female calves are bred because they start giving milk and
become dairy cows. Male calves are no longer castrated and used as oxen
beasts of burden so they are slaughtered while still veal. To keep the
herds from growing too large some of the older dairy cows each year are
replaced with young ones. The result is dairy farmers always have a
ready supply of tender veal and tough old beef.

I think the new system is to switch calves to grain as soon as possible
and then keep them until they are a year or more old. At some point
they get sold as beef instead of as veal and the grain feed is cheaper
than the milk feed. That switches the veal dairy farmers used to have
as a by product to a profitable additional product of their work. They
still get plenty of tough old cows retired from milk production to the
table.

When you think of osso buco...
 

Giusi wrote:

> Everything is re3lative. The population in the US is over 300 million, in
> Italy just over 60 million. The territory is around the size of
> California. It's densely populated here, but leave a city and within
> moments you are in country. Suburban sprawl here is clusters of mid to
> high rises at transport stops, not miles of small homes plopped on land.

I had thought Germany was much the same way but found out otherwise: On a
drive from Frankfurt to Rammstein Air Base I was surprised by the number of
suburban developments. In previous trips I'd seen much more of what you
describe.

Bob

When you think of osso buco...
 

Ranée at Arabian Knits wrote:

>> A cow eats a lot of vegetables to grow up until veal age/status, one
>> can not throw it all away if he could not get a lot of money back by
>> selling it, and only rich families could buy it.

> Does veal mean something different in Italy? Here it is a baby cow,
> not one that has eaten a long time. Depending on the breed, they can
> be butchered at six months or a year. I can see beef being expensive
> in a place where there isn't much pasture, and even veal being more
> expensive than it is here, but not veal being so expensive because of
> how long it took to raise.

It's more expensive because all the food it ate goes away without no other
revenue except for the meat: no milk, no newborns. This is what makes veal
expensive. Adult cows are less expensive because they had the time to give
birth to one or two veals before being slaughtered, thus giving more
revenue.

When you think of osso buco...
 

Ranée at Arabian Knits wrote:

>>>> Veal has always been expensive, so I can't picture a sudden trend.

>>> If always starts in the 60s or 70s.

>> 1) Plain wrong: the recipe which calls for veal appears in a book by
>> Pellegrino Artusi who dates back to the second half of XIX century.

> He said that veal has _always_ been expensive. I was countering
> that, by saying that is only true if you begin always relatively
> recently. So, what did you misunderstand?

I understood correctly: there where YOU live veal is expensive just since
the 60's - 70's while where I live it has always been expensive.

When you think of osso buco...
 

On Wed, 16 Nov 2011 15:42:06 +0100, "ViLco" > wrote:

> Ranée at Arabian Knits wrote:
>
> >>>> Veal has always been expensive, so I can't picture a sudden trend.
>
> >>> If always starts in the 60s or 70s.
>
> >> 1) Plain wrong: the recipe which calls for veal appears in a book by
> >> Pellegrino Artusi who dates back to the second half of XIX century.
>
> > He said that veal has _always_ been expensive. I was countering
> > that, by saying that is only true if you begin always relatively
> > recently. So, what did you misunderstand?
>
> I understood correctly: there where YOU live veal is expensive just since
> the 60's - 70's while where I live it has always been expensive.
>
Veal has always been expensive here too. It's all relative. Looking
back at the prices we considered expensive with today's perspective,
it wasn't so bad... but we tend to forget that we were paying for it
with the salary we earned back then, not our salary today.

--
All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt.

When you think of osso buco...
 

sf wrote:

>> I understood correctly: there where YOU live veal is expensive just
>> since the 60's - 70's while where I live it has always been
>> expensive.

> Veal has always been expensive here too.

For you, maybe, not for Stormmee.

> It's all relative.

This is the key

> Looking
> back at the prices we considered expensive with today's perspective,
> it wasn't so bad... but we tend to forget that we were paying for it
> with the salary we earned back then, not our salary today.

True

When you think of osso buco...
 

and since i come from a farming family getting them cheap at auction is
still done, you can buy a milk calf about a month old for about twenty to
fifty dollars depending on time of year/breed, then you can butcher or feed
then butcher as you like, Lee
"ViLco" > wrote in message
...
> sf wrote:
>
>>> I understood correctly: there where YOU live veal is expensive just
>>> since the 60's - 70's while where I live it has always been
>>> expensive.
>
>> Veal has always been expensive here too.
>
> For you, maybe, not for Stormmee.
>
>> It's all relative.
>
> This is the key
>
>> Looking
>> back at the prices we considered expensive with today's perspective,
>> it wasn't so bad... but we tend to forget that we were paying for it
>> with the salary we earned back then, not our salary today.
>
> True
>
>

When you think of osso buco...
 

On Wed, 16 Nov 2011 17:26:41 +0100, "ViLco" > wrote:

> sf wrote:
>
> >> I understood correctly: there where YOU live veal is expensive just
> >> since the 60's - 70's while where I live it has always been
> >> expensive.
>
> > Veal has always been expensive here too.
>
> For you, maybe, not for Stormmee.

Stormee's father raised cattle, so the price of veal was the cost of
feed and butchering.
>
> > It's all relative.
>
> This is the key
>
> > Looking
> > back at the prices we considered expensive with today's perspective,
> > it wasn't so bad... but we tend to forget that we were paying for it
> > with the salary we earned back then, not our salary today.
>
> True
>
>


--
All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt.