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When you think of osso buco...
In article om>,
"Bob Terwilliger" > wrote: > What springs to mind when someone mentions osso buco? What kind of meat? > What cooking method? What kind of sauce? What kind of accompaniment? > > Bob Veal shanks. I think I've had it only once and remember nothing of the meal but the veal shanks. -- Barb, http://web.me.com/barbschaller September 5, 2011 |
When you think of osso buco...
Pico Rico wrote: > > When it comes to food, Italians are very picky. When I was visiting > my relatives, they wouldn't order a particular dish because if you > want that you have it when you are in Milano, because that is where > they do it right. That means they have a preference for one version of the dish, but it kind of proves the point that variations exist. -- Reply in group, but if emailing add one more zero, and remove the last word. |
When you think of osso buco...
Larry wrote:
> I guess I was fortunate to be introduced to risotto in Milan, and shortly > thereafter from a well-known chef in Boston's North End. When you put it that way, doesn't it seem obvious? Bob |
When you think of osso buco...
"Tom Del Rosso" > wrote in message ... > > Pico Rico wrote: >> >> When it comes to food, Italians are very picky. When I was visiting >> my relatives, they wouldn't order a particular dish because if you >> want that you have it when you are in Milano, because that is where >> they do it right. > > That means they have a preference for one version of the dish, but it kind > of proves the point that variations exist. > yes, perhaps, but not with anything other than veal shank, or it wouldn't be called osso buco. |
When you think of osso buco...
"Bob Terwilliger" > ha scritto nel messaggio > In what was was I not "up front and honest"? You are being a drama queen > playing the victim. Hahaha victim I am not and I don't play one on TV. How long should you wait for a response on the internet? Given that we are 9 hours difference in time zones, there really isn't an answer to that. Politeness, IMO, requires that you do wait however. |
When you think of osso buco...
you could do what i do write inspired somewhere in the recipe title and you
are covered, purists know its not traditional, others have a snes of what it will taste like, Lee "Bob Terwilliger" > wrote in message b.com... > pavane wrote: > >>>> What springs to mind when someone mentions osso buco? What kind of >>>> meat? >>>> What cooking method? What kind of sauce? What kind of accompaniment? >>> >>> I don't understand why there is any question here. Veal shank, braise, >>> risotto Milanese. It is pretty standard stuff (and fantastic). >> >> The term has been corrupted and is now sneaking into common >> usage to mean any tough chunk of meat on a bone, braised. >> I have seen pork shank osso buco, lamb shank osso buco, >> no beef yet although it will come, it will come. A chef friend >> attributes this change in usage to the increased expense of >> good veal, which has priced the dish off of many restaurants, >> and the apparent willingness of the Great Public to swallow >> (literally, in this case) a fraud-turned-common practice. > > That's why I brought it up here. I've eaten beef shanks braised into what > was called osso buco, and found myself loving it (even *more* than had the > dish been made with veal). I've also seen braised lamb shanks called "osso > buco" and served with polenta. > > My question about accompaniments stems from a discussion I had with Giusi > elsewhere; she stated that she didn't believe risotto *should* be paired > with osso buco. (Presumably, this is because risotto is a "primi" dish and > osso buco a "segundi" dish.) She went on to state that polenta was a > traditional accompaniment to that Roman dish osso buco. (She later > retracted > the assertion that osso buco is Roman rather than Milanese.) > > So if non-veal meats are not allowed to be called "osso buco", are you > then > forced to use a long description of the dish you're making or eating, > e.g., > "tied lamb shank braised with wine, garnished with mint-lemon-garlic > gremolata" rather than "lamb osso buco"? > > Bob > |
When you think of osso buco...
it has the dreaded"stir constantly" instruction, so for me not doable, Lee
"jmcquown" > wrote in message ... > > "Steve Pope" > wrote in message > ... >> spamtrap1888 > wrote: >> >>> I hate risotto, btw: so little reward for so much effort, IMHO. >> >> You are probably being fed false information about how much effort >> it is. >> >> Steve > > > I don't know about that, Steve. First you have to have arborio rice. > Then, according to recipes I've read, you do have to stir stir stir... > constantly. I've only ever had it twice in restaurants but I was not > impressed enough to care to make it at home. It's just a different kind > of rice with lots more effort. I'd rather just put short grain rice in a > pot, add some stock and seasonings, cover, and let it simmer on low for 20 > minutes. > > Jill |
When you think of osso buco...
i never eat veal, my father and grandfather before him raised/raise cattle,
so i have the misfortune of knowing the legal definition of veal, so unless i know who abutchred it and all the particulars i can't eat it, Lee "jmcquown" > wrote in message ... > > "Storrmmee" > wrote in message > ... >> i know nothing ab out it, maybe you can talk more about it? Lee >> "Bob Terwilliger" > wrote in message >> eb.com... >>> What springs to mind when someone mentions osso buco? What kind of meat? >>> What cooking method? What kind of sauce? What kind of accompaniment? >>> >>> Bob >>> >>> >> > I think of veal shanks. Not something I buy. > > I do buy lamb shanks occasionally (I should look for them) and make a > different kind of stew :) > > Jill > > |
When you think of osso buco...
Giusi wrote:
>> In what was was I not "up front and honest"? You are being a drama queen >> playing the victim. > > Hahaha victim I am not and I don't play one on TV. How long should you > wait for a response on the internet? Given that we are 9 hours difference > in time zones, there really isn't an answer to that. Politeness, IMO, > requires that you do wait however. You know as well as I do that my schedule is more aligned with Europe and the Middle East than it is with North America. Inasmuch as I was responding to something you had *just* posted on Facebook, I had every reason to believe that you were not only awake but online. So after asking in the same forum where you had just posted, I did wait what seemed to be a polite interval given those conditions. The only one spoiling for a fight here is you. Bob |
When you think of osso buco...
"Storrmmee" > wrote in message ... >i never eat veal, my father and grandfather before him raised/raise cattle, >so i have the misfortune of knowing the legal definition of veal, so unless >i know who abutchred it and all the particulars i can't eat it, Lee and exactly what do you think you know? |
When you think of osso buco...
On Sat, 05 Nov 2011 20:28:54 -0700, sf > wrote:
>On Sat, 05 Nov 2011 23:13:17 -0400, wrote: > >> I guess you haven't had proper risotto, then. There is a lot of crappy rice out >> there listed on menus as risotto. I seldom find restaurant risotto that can >> compare to my own. > >Where are you located (not address, general location)? I'm in Alexandria, VA (Washington DC). -- Larry |
When you think of osso buco...
On Sun, 6 Nov 2011 03:08:53 -0600, "Storrmmee"
> wrote: > you could do what i do write inspired somewhere in the recipe title and you > are covered, purists know its not traditional, others have a snes of what it > will taste like, Lee We never see veal osso buco, we only see osso bucco, so I don't see what's so hard to figure out about "lamb osso buco". We know it's lamb and We know it was cooked osso buco style. That said, I haven't ever seen lamb osso buco on a menu. -- All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt. |
When you think of osso buco...
On Sat, 5 Nov 2011 23:56:17 -0700, "Pico Rico" >
wrote: > > "Tom Del Rosso" > wrote in message > ... > > > > Pico Rico wrote: > >> > >> When it comes to food, Italians are very picky. When I was visiting > >> my relatives, they wouldn't order a particular dish because if you > >> want that you have it when you are in Milano, because that is where > >> they do it right. > > > > That means they have a preference for one version of the dish, but it kind > > of proves the point that variations exist. > > > > > yes, perhaps, but not with anything other than veal shank, or it wouldn't be > called osso buco. > What would lamb shank cooked in the same way with the same sauce be called by them? Does it even exist? Obviously Italians aren't used to thinking outside the box if variations aren't allowable. -- All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt. |
When you think of osso buco...
On Fri, 4 Nov 2011 20:38:14 -0700, "Bob Terwilliger"
> wrote: > So if non-veal meats are not allowed to be called "osso buco", are you then > forced to use a long description of the dish you're making or eating, e.g., > "tied lamb shank braised with wine, garnished with mint-lemon-garlic > gremolata" rather than "lamb osso buco"? We do both on a menu. We'd say "lamb osso buco" and then put the description below it. -- All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt. |
When you think of osso buco...
"sf" > wrote in message ... > On Sat, 5 Nov 2011 23:56:17 -0700, "Pico Rico" > > wrote: > >> >> "Tom Del Rosso" > wrote in message >> ... >> > >> > Pico Rico wrote: >> >> >> >> When it comes to food, Italians are very picky. When I was visiting >> >> my relatives, they wouldn't order a particular dish because if you >> >> want that you have it when you are in Milano, because that is where >> >> they do it right. >> > >> > That means they have a preference for one version of the dish, but it >> > kind >> > of proves the point that variations exist. >> > >> >> >> yes, perhaps, but not with anything other than veal shank, or it wouldn't >> be >> called osso buco. >> > What would lamb shank cooked in the same way with the same sauce be > called by them? Does it even exist? Obviously Italians aren't used > to thinking outside the box if variations aren't allowable. of course variations are allowed, but just call it what it is then. The Italians are very much into specific terms for specific things. Thus the D.O.C., for example. |
When you think of osso buco...
sf > wrote:
>On Sat, 5 Nov 2011 20:31:56 +0000 (UTC), (Steve >> You are probably being fed false information about how much effort >> it is. >I was very surprised the first time I made it. It just takes the >regular amount of time it takes to make rice. It's basically boiled >rice, except you add the stock a little at a time and let it boil down >before adding more. Yes, and it's important to make sure the liquid you're adding is already at boiling. This requires a second pot for heating the liquid in, so it is not a one-pot dish. Steve |
When you think of osso buco...
"Pico Rico" > ha scritto nel messaggio > "sf" > wrote in message >>> >> When it comes to food, Italians are very picky. When I was visiting >>> >> my relatives, they wouldn't order a particular dish because if you >>> >> want that you have it when you are in Milano, because that is where >>> >> they do it right. >>> >>> >>> yes, perhaps, but not with anything other than veal shank, or it >>> wouldn't >>> be >>> called osso buco. >>> >> What would lamb shank cooked in the same way with the same sauce be >> called by them? Does it even exist? Obviously Italians aren't used >> to thinking outside the box if variations aren't allowable. > > of course variations are allowed, but just call it what it is then. The > Italians are very much into specific terms for specific things. Thus the > D.O.C., for example. Lamb shanks are not sold here. Ssheep shanks might be, but lamb is killed so small there is no meat on what would be a shank. A whole leg is sometimes the size of a make turkey leg. Osso buco means holed bone which has marrow, a crucial part of the dish. I don't know that those tiny lamb bones have any, but I do know there is maybe one mouthful of meat toward the place where shanks are usually cut. They do sell turkey leg slices for it because it is affordable, whereas the veal isn't. |
When you think of osso buco...
On 06/11/2011 1:21 PM, Giusi wrote:
.., for example. > > Lamb shanks are not sold here. Ssheep shanks might be, but lamb is killed > so small there is no meat on what would be a shank. A whole leg is > sometimes the size of a make turkey leg. Most of the lamb shanks I have seen over the years have been about the size of a turkey drumstick. |
When you think of osso buco...
On 06/11/2011 12:53 PM, sf wrote:
> Thanks, I thought the East coast was littered with lots of really good > Italian restaurants... but I guess not. There are lot of Italians living in southern Ontario, especially Toronto and around the Niagara peninsula. There are a lot of Italian restaurants. There are very very that I would call good. Some of them have better pasta and tomato sauce dishes than others, but basically that is about all that has to be on the menu for it to be an Italian restaurant. There is the occasional "upscale" Italian restaurant. That means the have dishes like ravioli stuffed with crab and topped with a lobster sauce or some other variation of pasta with something other than tomato sauce. |
When you think of osso buco...
Somehow I rarely think of Osso Buco unless we are at our local Italian restaurant and I see it on the menu. Even then, I am more likely to order eggplant parm, eggplant rollatini, (Spellcheck just offered me "rollerskating or "violation" as correct spellings.) bracciole, or their lobster ravioli with white sauce. gloria p |
When you think of osso buco...
On Sun, 06 Nov 2011 12:21:12 -0700, "gloria.p" >
wrote: > Somehow I rarely think of Osso Buco unless we are at our local Italian > restaurant and I see it on the menu. Are you back East too? I just checked one place we go to from time to time and osso buco isn't on the dinner menu, but it's probably an occasional special. www.spiedo.com/pdf/dinner.pdf -- All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt. |
When you think of osso buco...
sf > wrote:
>On Sun, 06 Nov 2011 12:21:12 -0700, "gloria.p" > >wrote: > >> Somehow I rarely think of Osso Buco unless we are at our local Italian >> restaurant and I see it on the menu. > >Are you back East too? I just checked one place we go to from time to >time and osso buco isn't on the dinner menu, but it's probably an >occasional special. www.spiedo.com/pdf/dinner.pdf I was guessing it is on the regular menu at Buca Giovanni (SF) and I was right. http://www.themenupage.com/bucagiovannimenu.html Steve |
When you think of osso buco...
On Sun, 6 Nov 2011 20:48:45 +0000 (UTC), (Steve
Pope) wrote: > sf > wrote: > > >On Sun, 06 Nov 2011 12:21:12 -0700, "gloria.p" > > >wrote: > > > >> Somehow I rarely think of Osso Buco unless we are at our local Italian > >> restaurant and I see it on the menu. > > > >Are you back East too? I just checked one place we go to from time to > >time and osso buco isn't on the dinner menu, but it's probably an > >occasional special. www.spiedo.com/pdf/dinner.pdf > > I was guessing it is on the regular menu at Buca Giovanni (SF) > and I was right. > > http://www.themenupage.com/bucagiovannimenu.html > I've never eaten there, thanks for the pointer. -- All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt. |
When you think of osso buco...
sf > wrote:
>On Sun, 6 Nov 2011 20:48:45 +0000 (UTC), (Steve >> I was guessing it is on the regular menu at Buca Giovanni (SF) >> and I was right. >I've never eaten there, thanks for the pointer. They've been around forever. I have not been there for about a decade, but unless they have changed, they are are a pretty good, decidedly un-Californicated northern Italian place. Lots of venison, rabbit, heavy sauces, etc. Great if that's what you want. Steve |
When you think of osso buco...
On Sun, 6 Nov 2011 21:52:44 +0000 (UTC), (Steve
Pope) wrote: > sf > wrote: > > >On Sun, 6 Nov 2011 20:48:45 +0000 (UTC), (Steve > > >> I was guessing it is on the regular menu at Buca Giovanni (SF) > >> and I was right. > > >I've never eaten there, thanks for the pointer. > > They've been around forever. I have not been there for about > a decade, but unless they have changed, they are are a pretty good, > decidedly un-Californicated northern Italian place. Lots > of venison, rabbit, heavy sauces, etc. Great if that's what you want. > :) Not particularly, thanks for the warning. -- All you need is love. But a little chocolate now and then doesn't hurt. |
When you think of osso buco...
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When you think of osso buco...
Bob Terwilliger wrote:
> (She later retracted the assertion that osso buco is Roman > rather than Milanese.) Wrong point of view: ossibuchi (plural of osso buco, since in italy we call it plural) is both roman and nmilanese. And bolognese, and pugliese, and emiliano, and many many more areas of Italy since all of these areas have their versione of ossibuchi. Here in Emilia we don't use gremolada but add tomato preserve and peas, in southern italy they also add tomato and some spices, etcetere. I'd like to test the roman version since I don't know it and I'm sure they have one, and probably a hearthy one, because ossibuchi is definitely part of the Italian Cuisine. |
When you think of osso buco...
Ranée at Arabian Knits wrote:
>> Veal has always been expensive, so I can't picture a sudden trend. > If always starts in the 60s or 70s. 1) Plain wrong: the recipe which calls for veal appears in a book by Pellegrino Artusi who dates back to the second half of XIX century. 2) Now, will you be so kind to tell me who or what made you believe the *false* asserption that there hasn't been an Italian Cuisine until the 60's or 70's of the XX century? |
When you think of osso buco...
"ViLco" > ha scritto nel messaggio > Ranée at Arabian Knits wrote: > >>> Veal has always been expensive, so I can't picture a sudden trend. > >> If always starts in the 60s or 70s. > > 1) Plain wrong: the recipe which calls for veal appears in a book by > Pellegrino Artusi who dates back to the second half of XIX century. > 2) Now, will you be so kind to tell me who or what made you believe the > *false* asserption that there hasn't been an Italian Cuisine until the > 60's or 70's of the XX century? Perhaps she means more that the shortage begins then, when restaurants made dishes made of cheap cuts chic, and suddenly the cheap cuts became expensive. Lambshanks in the USA used to be almost free, and now they are a fortune if you divide the price by the amount of meat on them. |
When you think of osso buco...
i read renee's post to mean the sixties abou t veal, Lee
"ViLco" > wrote in message ... > Ranée at Arabian Knits wrote: > >>> Veal has always been expensive, so I can't picture a sudden trend. > >> If always starts in the 60s or 70s. > > 1) Plain wrong: the recipe which calls for veal appears in a book by > Pellegrino Artusi who dates back to the second half of XIX century. > 2) Now, will you be so kind to tell me who or what made you believe the > *false* asserption that there hasn't been an Italian Cuisine until the > 60's or 70's of the XX century? > > |
When you think of osso buco...
they aren't affordable for most people now, but i read renee's post to be
referring to veal, Lee "Giusi" > wrote in message ... > > "ViLco" > ha scritto nel messaggio >> Ranée at Arabian Knits wrote: >> >>>> Veal has always been expensive, so I can't picture a sudden trend. >> >>> If always starts in the 60s or 70s. >> >> 1) Plain wrong: the recipe which calls for veal appears in a book by >> Pellegrino Artusi who dates back to the second half of XIX century. >> 2) Now, will you be so kind to tell me who or what made you believe the >> *false* asserption that there hasn't been an Italian Cuisine until the >> 60's or 70's of the XX century? > > Perhaps she means more that the shortage begins then, when restaurants > made dishes made of cheap cuts chic, and suddenly the cheap cuts became > expensive. Lambshanks in the USA used to be almost free, and now they are > a fortune if you divide the price by the amount of meat on them. > > |
When you think of osso buco...
Giusi wrote:
>>> If always starts in the 60s or 70s. >> 1) Plain wrong: the recipe which calls for veal appears in a book by >> Pellegrino Artusi who dates back to the second half of XIX century. >> 2) Now, will you be so kind to tell me who or what made you believe >> the *false* asserption that there hasn't been an Italian Cuisine >> until the 60's or 70's of the XX century? > Perhaps she means more that the shortage begins then, when > restaurants made dishes made of cheap cuts chic, and suddenly the > cheap cuts became expensive. You can be sure that veal has never been a cheap cut in Italy. Before the XX century it was only on the tebles of wealthy families, i.e. the landowner's family and not the farmer workers' families. The latter could only afford the adult cows after those had worked and have been milked for years. |
When you think of osso buco...
Storrmmee wrote:
> i read renee's post to mean the sixties abou t veal, Lee Then it is still plain wrong since veal has always been expensive and has always been used in recipes for centuries before the period she specifies. |
When you think of osso buco...
as the daughter of a cattle farmer, veal was available when something went
wrong and there wasn't a ready buyer... better than wasting the calf entirely, Lee "ViLco" > wrote in message ... > Giusi wrote: > >>>> If always starts in the 60s or 70s. > >>> 1) Plain wrong: the recipe which calls for veal appears in a book by >>> Pellegrino Artusi who dates back to the second half of XIX century. >>> 2) Now, will you be so kind to tell me who or what made you believe >>> the *false* asserption that there hasn't been an Italian Cuisine >>> until the 60's or 70's of the XX century? > >> Perhaps she means more that the shortage begins then, when >> restaurants made dishes made of cheap cuts chic, and suddenly the >> cheap cuts became expensive. > > You can be sure that veal has never been a cheap cut in Italy. Before the > XX century it was only on the tebles of wealthy families, i.e. the > landowner's family and not the farmer workers' families. The latter could > only afford the adult cows after those had worked and have been milked for > years. > > |
When you think of osso buco...
it hasn't always been expensive here in the us, Lee
"ViLco" > wrote in message ... > Storrmmee wrote: > >> i read renee's post to mean the sixties abou t veal, Lee > > Then it is still plain wrong since veal has always been expensive and has > always been used in recipes for centuries before the period she specifies. > > |
When you think of osso buco...
Storrmmee wrote:
> as the daughter of a cattle farmer, veal was available when something > went wrong and there wasn't a ready buyer... better than wasting the > calf entirely, Lee Cattle farmer and owner, I'd say, and you obviously didn't need the work and milk from that animal. Here it was different from there, way different: Italy has never had the vaste pastures of north america, the land is small and was almost all exploited since more than one century ago, thus both vegetables and cattle have always been way more expensive than there in the US. A cow eats a lot of vegetables to grow up until veal age/status, one can not throw it all away if he could not get a lot of money back by selling it, and only rich families could buy it. |
When you think of osso buco...
"ViLco" > ha scritto nel messaggio ... > Storrmmee wrote: > >> as the daughter of a cattle farmer, veal was available when something >> went wrong and there wasn't a ready buyer... better than wasting the >> calf entirely, Lee > > Cattle farmer and owner, I'd say, and you obviously didn't need the work > and milk from that animal. Here it was different from there, way > different: Italy has never had the vaste pastures of north america, the > land is small and was almost all exploited since more than one century > ago, thus both vegetables and cattle have always been way more expensive > than there in the US. A cow eats a lot of vegetables to grow up until veal > age/status, one can not throw it all away if he could not get a lot of > money back by selling it, and only rich families could buy it. Agreed, but of all the veal, the shank was cheaper than other parts. Also the breast or pancetta di vitello. I could buy that for ?9.95 4 years ago, but now they cut it in strips and call it scottadita and charge as much as a roast. |
When you think of osso buco...
Giusi wrote:
>> Cattle farmer and owner, I'd say, and you obviously didn't need the >> work and milk from that animal. Here it was different from there, way >> different: Italy has never had the vaste pastures of north america, >> the land is small and was almost all exploited since more than one >> century ago, thus both vegetables and cattle have always been way >> more expensive than there in the US. A cow eats a lot of vegetables >> to grow up until veal age/status, one can not throw it all away if >> he could not get a lot of money back by selling it, and only rich >> families could buy it. > Agreed, but of all the veal, the shank was cheaper than other parts. This doesn't change the fact that it was still expensive also in the past centuries. The only part which could end up on a worker's family table were the > Also the breast or pancetta di vitello. I could buy that for ?9.95 4 > years ago, but now they cut it in strips and call it scottadita and > charge as much as a roast. In the last ten years there's a strong perception of stores trying to mercilessly rip us out of our money, prices go up with almost no reason. Look at bread, for example, here it went from 3 to 4.5+ euro/kg in the last five years and this is a 50% price increase: almost 10% a year, which is plain ridiculous, more than 3 times the national inflation yearly rate. |
When you think of osso buco...
ViLco wrote:
>> Agreed, but of all the veal, the shank was cheaper than other parts. > This doesn't change the fact that it was still expensive also in the > past centuries. The only part which could end up on a worker's family > table were the Forgot that one: the innards. |
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