Got the PG&E bill today. Electric was $104 and Gas was under $3.
Huh, not even $3? The water heater and gas stove are used daily. We
did have a little heat wave, but the furnace was used. I need to call
them to see if they made a billing mistake, because I will *not*
appreciate it if they tack what they should have charged onto my next
bill.

I figure at least a third of that electricity was used by the kitchen
lights. What I really want to know is this: how do you keep the light
factor high and your electric bill low for kitchen use? I'm thinking
I won't use the "pot" lights as much and just use under counter
lighting to see if I can lower that charge next month.

Unfortunately, I think the biggest electric hog is the TV and that's
not getting turned off any more than it is already.

--

Never trust a dog to watch your food.

On Oct 29, 3:20*pm, sf > wrote:
> Got the PG&E bill today. *Electric was $104 and Gas was under $3.
> Huh, not even $3? *The water heater and gas stove are used daily. *We
> did have a little heat wave, but the furnace was used. *I need to call
> them to see if they made a billing mistake, because I will *not*
> appreciate it if they tack what they should have charged onto my next
> bill.
>
> I figure at least a third of that electricity was used by the kitchen
> lights. *What I really want to know is this: how do you keep the light
> factor high and your electric bill low for kitchen use? *I'm thinking
> I won't use the "pot" lights as much and just use under counter
> lighting to see if I can lower that charge next month. *
>
> Unfortunately, I think the biggest electric hog is the TV and that's
> not getting turned off any more than it is already.
>
> --
>
> Never trust a dog to watch your food.

Most household electricity is used moving heat from one place to
another. All refrigerators, air conditioners and heat pumps do this.

John Kuthe...

sf wrote:
> Got the PG&E bill today. Electric was $104 and Gas was under $3.
> Huh, not even $3? The water heater and gas stove are used daily. We
> did have a little heat wave, but the furnace was used. I need to call
> them to see if they made a billing mistake, because I will *not*
> appreciate it if they tack what they should have charged onto my next
> bill.

$3 wouldn't even cover those miscellaneous fees and taxes all
my utility bills have. Are you on a budget plan? I get free months
on my gas or electric when they overestimated my usage.

Also, I have recently gotten some kind of refund on my gas bill,
something about the gas being cheaper than they expected.

> I figure at least a third of that electricity was used by the kitchen
> lights. What I really want to know is this: how do you keep the light
> factor high and your electric bill low for kitchen use? I'm thinking
> I won't use the "pot" lights as much and just use under counter
> lighting to see if I can lower that charge next month.

LED lights cost almost nothing to use, perhaps you could put
some in as under counter lighting, it's very bright.

> Unfortunately, I think the biggest electric hog is the TV and that's
> not getting turned off any more than it is already.

That's why I'm thinking of getting LED/LCD when I replace my tv,
to lower electricity usage. Not that my bills are high, in my opinion.

nancy

On Oct 29, 1:20*pm, sf > wrote:

> Got the PG&E bill today. *Electric was $104 and Gas was under $3.
> Huh, not even $3? *

What's been your average bill in the last - say - two years? Have you
gotten the "smart meter?"

"sf" > wrote in message
...
>
> Got the PG&E bill today. Electric was $104 and Gas was under $3.
> Huh, not even $3? The water heater and gas stove are used daily. We
> did have a little heat wave, but the furnace was used. I need to call
> them to see if they made a billing mistake, because I will *not*
> appreciate it if they tack what they should have charged onto my next
> bill.
>
> I figure at least a third of that electricity was used by the kitchen
> lights. What I really want to know is this: how do you keep the light
> factor high and your electric bill low for kitchen use? I'm thinking
> I won't use the "pot" lights as much and just use under counter
> lighting to see if I can lower that charge next month.
>
> Unfortunately, I think the biggest electric hog is the TV and that's
> not getting turned off any more than it is already.

Wow that's cheap! How many months is that for?

I only have a gas water heater. Bills used to be around $35 a month until
we got the new water heater. Bills gradually went down and now are around
$17 a month.

We have electric heat. I am using it now but didn't use it during the time
period of my last bill, which was almost $110 for two months. It can reach
over $500 for 2 months.

What I do in the kitchen is try not to turn the lights on at all. I had
these idiotic can lights and the bulbs used to burn out like crazy. I could
not change most of them. I could not reach them. I bought a device on a
pole that worked occasionally, but mostly just pushed the fixture up into
the ceiling. I eventually had to call an electrician when I was down to
just two bulbs (flood lights) and was having to use a battery operated lamp
for light near the stove!

He replaced the cans with newer ones that allowed more air circulation
around the bulbs and also put in longer lasting bulbs. He said I should get
about 3 years use out of them. I think I am going on now 4 years. *knock
wood*

I try to do my cooking when it is still light out. We have plenty of
skylights in here so I don't really need lights then. And there is a garden
window in the kitchen.

I also have the lights in the kitchen put on a dimmer. To have them on full
boar is just overkill. Some idiot designed the lighting in this house,
that's for sure! The same sort of can lights are in the family room and the
living room. To have them on heats up the room quite quickly and they are
so bright I often get a migraine from them. Ugh! So the kitchen lights are
on pretty dim. Just enough for me to see. If I have to, I can turn them
up.

The dining room is open and at the end of the kitchen. The dining room is
also on a dimmer. Although the lights are dim now because my husband is
home (he hates light of any kind), I usually have the chandelier on. I use
soft pink, 60W bulbs. That is plenty enough light to see at the one end of
the kitchen. The only problem is when I am using the stove. If I want to
see what I am cooking, I really do need to have the lights on in there.

I am on everyone in this house like a fiend to keep those lights off! If
they have to use them, fine. But then they need to be turned off.

I am far less concerned about the other rooms in this house. In fact in the
family room I have a couple of lamps on all the time. One is a faux Tiffany
with a lead glass shade and the other is a 3-Way bulb on low. I keep those
on pretty much all the time plus the dining room light. Of course we do not
need them on during the day, but I am just lazy and leave them on.

I also have a tendency to leave the house and not return until after dark.
This is one reason why I leave them on. We have an elderly cat who is here
when we are not. I want her to be able to see. We do have night lights in
the other rooms for her.

On 29/10/2010 4:20 PM, sf wrote:
>
> Got the PG&E bill today. Electric was $104 and Gas was under $3.
> Huh, not even $3? The water heater and gas stove are used daily. We
> did have a little heat wave, but the furnace was used. I need to call
> them to see if they made a billing mistake, because I will *not*
> appreciate it if they tack what they should have charged onto my next
> bill.
>

The gas portion sounds low. Really low.

> I figure at least a third of that electricity was used by the kitchen
> lights. What I really want to know is this: how do you keep the light
> factor high and your electric bill low for kitchen use? I'm thinking
> I won't use the "pot" lights as much and just use under counter
> lighting to see if I can lower that charge next month.
>
> Unfortunately, I think the biggest electric hog is the TV and that's
> not getting turned off any more than it is already.

Check around the house and see how many things you have that are a
constant draw, like VCR, electric clock(Clock radio),
television,adapters and rechargers. Some things draw power even when
not in use.

My house usually looks dead at night,especially if I am home alone. I
have a light in in the room I am in. I use florescent and compact
florescent lights in most of my fixtures. I leave on one in the kitchen
in the evening, about 18watt draw. I plan laundry for days when I can
line dry.

I am having constant battles with the electrical supplier. We have a
rate for the first 600 KWH (used to be the first 1000 kwh) Then it
jumps. They do a reading once a quarter and on the months in between
the guesstimate. Their guesstimate always seems up over the cut off for
the lower rate and they charge the higher rate. Then when they do the
reading they adjust and you get credited for the extra kwh, but only at
the low rate. I started checking my meter reading and the current
reading, 3 weeks after their guesstimate, was always lower.

sf > wrote:


>Got the PG&E bill today. Electric was $104 and Gas was under $3.
>Huh, not even $3? The water heater and gas stove are used daily. We
>did have a little heat wave, but the furnace was used. I need to call
>them to see if they made a billing mistake, because I will *not*
>appreciate it if they tack what they should have charged onto my next
>bill.


Did they just switch you to a more modern meter on either gas or electric?
The switcheroo might throw off the billing.

Steve

On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 13:20:08 -0700, sf > wrote:

>
>Got the PG&E bill today. Electric was $104 and Gas was under $3.
>Huh, not even $3? The water heater and gas stove are used daily. We
>did have a little heat wave, but the furnace was used. I need to call
>them to see if they made a billing mistake, because I will *not*
>appreciate it if they tack what they should have charged onto my next
>bill.
>
>I figure at least a third of that electricity was used by the kitchen
>lights. What I really want to know is this: how do you keep the light
>factor high and your electric bill low for kitchen use? I'm thinking
>I won't use the "pot" lights as much and just use under counter
>lighting to see if I can lower that charge next month.
>
>Unfortunately, I think the biggest electric hog is the TV and that's
>not getting turned off any more than it is already.

What are "pot lights"?

Modern flat panel TVs don't consume very much electricity (no more
than your pc monitor-my 26" Vizio consumes 130W), not compared with
refrigerators, electric stoves, air conditioners, dishwashers, clothes
dryers, electric water heaters, vacuum cleaners, and incondescent
lamps-especially outdoor floods/spots. The only way to lower electric
bills is to lower electric consumption... most folks nowadays waste
more electric than they use, everytime you use your electric oven to
bake one potato you consume more electric than your TV consumes all
day... how old are you?

On 2010-10-29, sf > wrote:

> Unfortunately, I think the biggest electric hog is the TV and that's
> not getting turned off any more than it is already.

Nope. TVs do not comsume much. Motors (refrigerator) and
non-fluorescent lighting and electric heating are the big hogs.
Microwaves, too.

nb

On Oct 29, 1:55*pm, notbob > wrote:
> On 2010-10-29, sf > wrote:
>
> > Unfortunately, I think the biggest electric hog is the TV and that's
> > not getting turned off any more than it is already.
>
> Nope. *TVs do not comsume much. *Motors (refrigerator) and
> non-fluorescent lighting and electric heating are the big hogs.
> Microwaves, too.
>
> nb

So are computers and chlothes driers. Chlothes driers are the worst.

sf wrote:
>
> Got the PG&E bill today. Electric was $104 and Gas was under $3.
> Huh, not even $3? The water heater and gas stove are used daily. We
> did have a little heat wave, but the furnace was used. I need to call
> them to see if they made a billing mistake, because I will *not*
> appreciate it if they tack what they should have charged onto my next
> bill.

Your gas meter is probably defective. That happened
to my electric meter, so I was only charged minimum
payments for a few years. When I reported the problem
and PG&E replaced the meter, I was not charged for the
free electricity I received.

On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 16:46:36 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote:

>On 29/10/2010 4:20 PM, sf wrote:
>>
>> Got the PG&E bill today. Electric was $104 and Gas was under $3.
>> Huh, not even $3? The water heater and gas stove are used daily. We
>> did have a little heat wave, but the furnace was used. I need to call
>> them to see if they made a billing mistake, because I will *not*
>> appreciate it if they tack what they should have charged onto my next
>> bill.
>>
>
>The gas portion sounds low. Really low.

She produces her own.

On Oct 29, 3:20*pm, sf > wrote:
> Got the PG&E bill today. *Electric was $104 and Gas was under $3.
> Huh, not even $3? *The water heater and gas stove are used daily. *We
> did have a little heat wave, but the furnace was used. *I need to call
> them to see if they made a billing mistake, because I will *not*
> appreciate it if they tack what they should have charged onto my next
> bill.
>
> I figure at least a third of that electricity was used by the kitchen
> lights. *What I really want to know is this: how do you keep the light
> factor high and your electric bill low for kitchen use? *I'm thinking
> I won't use the "pot" lights as much and just use under counter
> lighting to see if I can lower that charge next month. *
>
> Unfortunately, I think the biggest electric hog is the TV and that's
> not getting turned off any more than it is already.
>
> --
>
> Never trust a dog to watch your food.

If you switch to compact fluorescents where you can, and LEDs where
you can, it will probably be lower. My total gas & electric this
month was $51. I didn't use much of anything except my iron and
sewing machine (and TV and VCR and DVD player of course).

Another thing you can do (which is really a nuisance) is to unplug all
those electronic things like phone chargers, transformers on audio-
visual equipment, etc. - anything with an indicator light that's on
all the time - because those things drain electric power.

N.

On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 16:31:29 -0400, "Nancy Young"
> wrote:

> sf wrote:
> > Got the PG&E bill today. Electric was $104 and Gas was under $3.
> > Huh, not even $3? The water heater and gas stove are used daily. We
> > did have a little heat wave, but the furnace was used. I need to call
> > them to see if they made a billing mistake, because I will *not*
> > appreciate it if they tack what they should have charged onto my next
> > bill.
>
> $3 wouldn't even cover those miscellaneous fees and taxes all
> my utility bills have.

Those fees are factored into the bill.

> Are you on a budget plan? I get free months
> on my gas or electric when they overestimated my usage.

Nope, it's pay as you go. We figure the four things that use the
most electrify in the house are the TV, kitchen lights, refrigerator
and dryer. The lights are what I'll focus on this month, because I
know those overhead lights throw off a lot of heat.
>
> Also, I have recently gotten some kind of refund on my gas bill,
> something about the gas being cheaper than they expected.
>
> > I figure at least a third of that electricity was used by the kitchen
> > lights. What I really want to know is this: how do you keep the light
> > factor high and your electric bill low for kitchen use? I'm thinking
> > I won't use the "pot" lights as much and just use under counter
> > lighting to see if I can lower that charge next month.
>
> LED lights cost almost nothing to use, perhaps you could put
> some in as under counter lighting, it's very bright.

I don't know what my under counter lights are, I haven't had to
replace a bulb yet. They aren't halogen, and I don't think they're
LED.
>
> > Unfortunately, I think the biggest electric hog is the TV and that's
> > not getting turned off any more than it is already.
>
> That's why I'm thinking of getting LED/LCD when I replace my tv,
> to lower electricity usage. Not that my bills are high, in my opinion.
>
This one is plasma. If we close the door, it heats the room in the
winter. I want to get an LED when the price drops to something
reasonable.


--

Never trust a dog to watch your food.

sf wrote:
>
> Got the PG&E bill today. Electric was $104 and Gas was under $3.
> Huh, not even $3? The water heater and gas stove are used daily. We
> did have a little heat wave, but the furnace was used. I need to call
> them to see if they made a billing mistake, because I will *not*
> appreciate it if they tack what they should have charged onto my next
> bill.
>
> I figure at least a third of that electricity was used by the kitchen
> lights. What I really want to know is this: how do you keep the light
> factor high and your electric bill low for kitchen use? I'm thinking
> I won't use the "pot" lights as much and just use under counter
> lighting to see if I can lower that charge next month.
>
> Unfortunately, I think the biggest electric hog is the TV and that's
> not getting turned off any more than it is already.
>
> --
>
> Never trust a dog to watch your food.

CFLs make a big difference in electric consumption, some 75% less than a
comparable incandescent. Use those in your "pots" which I presume are
recessed lights.

Your refrigerator will be one of your top energy users, so if it's not
relatively new you can probably save some energy with a newer model.

You should tell us how many KWH you used, not total price, since
electric rates vary a lot.

I have a nice new (though not the highest SEER/HSPF) heat pump here
heating and cooling my ~1,800 sq. ft., I have three computers on 24x365,
a couple UPSes, router, cable modem, network switch, an aquarium,
electric water heater, electric clothes dryer, electric ovens (LP
cooktop) and a dehumidifier out in my shop. Outside of the few cold
months here, my typical consumption is 900-1000 KWH/mo, last month was
832 since we had started into the "neutral" season with minimal cooling
or heating needs. That includes power consumption for projects in my
shop as well, including welding and plasma cutting. I use CFL lights
just about everywhere, except for a few spots that get little use.

You also need to watch out for the electric rate structure out there,
from what I've heard from my CA coworkers, there are some very strange
rate structures which can bite you if your power consumption lands on
the wrong side of certain thresholds. My rates here are probably lower
that yours to start ($0.135/KWH), and they get lower as I cross power
thresholds (1000KWH, 2000KWH, etc.).

I'd recommend you buy a Kill-a-Watt unit, a ~$25 power meter you plug in
between an appliance (like a refrigerator or TV) and the outlet and it
will measure and log the power consumption over time so you can see how
many KWH an item is using over the course of a day/week/month.

I can't imagine you still have meter readers out there vs. remote read
meters, but if you do, they have been known to typo a digit on the
reading which can have a big effect on the bill, though it self corrects
with the next correct reading.

I don't know what type of housing you live in, but with the economy
these days don't overlook the possibility of someone stealing power from
you if you are in any sort of multi-unit housing.

Nancy Young wrote:
>
> sf wrote:
> > Got the PG&E bill today. Electric was $104 and Gas was under $3.
> > Huh, not even $3? The water heater and gas stove are used daily. We
> > did have a little heat wave, but the furnace was used. I need to call
> > them to see if they made a billing mistake, because I will *not*
> > appreciate it if they tack what they should have charged onto my next
> > bill.
>
> $3 wouldn't even cover those miscellaneous fees and taxes all
> my utility bills have. Are you on a budget plan? I get free months
> on my gas or electric when they overestimated my usage.
>
> Also, I have recently gotten some kind of refund on my gas bill,
> something about the gas being cheaper than they expected.
>
> > I figure at least a third of that electricity was used by the kitchen
> > lights. What I really want to know is this: how do you keep the light
> > factor high and your electric bill low for kitchen use? I'm thinking
> > I won't use the "pot" lights as much and just use under counter
> > lighting to see if I can lower that charge next month.
>
> LED lights cost almost nothing to use, perhaps you could put
> some in as under counter lighting, it's very bright.
>
> > Unfortunately, I think the biggest electric hog is the TV and that's
> > not getting turned off any more than it is already.
>
> That's why I'm thinking of getting LED/LCD when I replace my tv,
> to lower electricity usage. Not that my bills are high, in my opinion.
>
> nancy

LED lighting has improved a lot, and I'm experimenting with some, but in
my opinion it is still not ready for color critical applications, and
this would include kitchens. CFL lighting is as efficient or more
efficient than most LED lighting at this point, and the color
temperatures are much more favorable. LED lights only use less apparent
power than CFLs due to their very directional light distribution, so
unless you are ok working in one spot of light in an otherwise quite
dark room, they aren't very good yet.

As for the TV, look at the power rating on the current one and compare
with the proposed new one. Chances are there isn't as much of a
difference as you might think. Also, consider using a Kill-a-Watt meter
to measure the real power consumption since the nameplate rating is max
and few items really draw that max for more than a second or two at turn
on. You will find that a CRT TV draws a small gulp of power on startup,
but then drops to a much lower value, while an LCD/LED TV has little
starting surge and will draw closer to it's full rating the whole time.

notbob wrote:
>
> On 2010-10-29, sf > wrote:
>
> > Unfortunately, I think the biggest electric hog is the TV and that's
> > not getting turned off any more than it is already.
>
> Nope. TVs do not comsume much. Motors (refrigerator) and
> non-fluorescent lighting and electric heating are the big hogs.
> Microwaves, too.
>
> nb
>
>

Not microwaves, the usage duty cycle on them is *way* too low for them
to have a significant impact. Rather like my welder, which while it will
suck nearly 20KW when I'm welding, runs such a small percentage of the
time that it never makes more than $1 difference on my bill.

Omelet wrote:
>
> In article >,
> sf > wrote:
>
> > Got the PG&E bill today. Electric was $104 and Gas was under $3.
> > Huh, not even $3? The water heater and gas stove are used daily. We
> > did have a little heat wave, but the furnace was used. I need to call
> > them to see if they made a billing mistake, because I will *not*
> > appreciate it if they tack what they should have charged onto my next
> > bill.
> >
> > I figure at least a third of that electricity was used by the kitchen
> > lights. What I really want to know is this: how do you keep the light
> > factor high and your electric bill low for kitchen use? I'm thinking
> > I won't use the "pot" lights as much and just use under counter
> > lighting to see if I can lower that charge next month.
> >
> > Unfortunately, I think the biggest electric hog is the TV and that's
> > not getting turned off any more than it is already.
>
> All 100% fluorescent bulbs, and a hidden thermostat so the house temp
> stays stable! Have to heat a cold house, or cool a hot house gets to be
> rather costly.
>
> I think flat screen TV's burn less power? Might be worth the
> investment....

That's the perception, but not the reality. Looking at the ratings on
them can be deceiving since the rating is max and CRT TVs have a
starting surge that accounts for the max, but a much lower running
power, while LCD/LED TVs draw near full power all the time they're on.

>
> I no longer run ANY incandescent bulbs unless I'm trying to keep an
> animal warm with a spot lamp, and it's been ages since we did any
> rehabbing.

I only have a few incandescents in rarely used locations.

On Oct 29, 3:45*pm, "Julie Bove" > wrote:
> "sf" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Got the PG&E bill today. *Electric was $104 and Gas was under $3.
> > Huh, not even $3? *The water heater and gas stove are used daily. *We
> > did have a little heat wave, but the furnace was used. *I need to call
> > them to see if they made a billing mistake, because I will *not*
> > appreciate it if they tack what they should have charged onto my next
> > bill.
>
> > I figure at least a third of that electricity was used by the kitchen
> > lights. *What I really want to know is this: how do you keep the light
> > factor high and your electric bill low for kitchen use? *I'm thinking
> > I won't use the "pot" lights as much and just use under counter
> > lighting to see if I can lower that charge next month.
>
> > Unfortunately, I think the biggest electric hog is the TV and that's
> > not getting turned off any more than it is already.
>
> Wow that's cheap! *How many months is that for?
>
> I only have a gas water heater. *Bills used to be around $35 a month until
> we got the new water heater. *Bills gradually went down and now are around
> $17 a month.
>
> We have electric heat. *I am using it now but didn't use it during the time
> period of my last bill, which was almost $110 for two months. *It can reach
> over $500 for 2 months.
>
Know this:
EVERY SINGLE BIT of electricity that you use gets converted into heat
exactly as efficiently as if it were used to power your electric
furnace--with the exception of the tiny amount of light that goes out
the windows. In the Winter, when you are running heat anyway, you
save zero electricity by turning off appliances such as TVs,
computers, radios, etc. or by using energy saving light bulbs.* In an
interior room where no light escapes to the exterior of the house, it
is exactly as energy efficient to heat with 10 100w light bulbs as
with a continuously operated 1000w space heater. The advantage of the
furnace or space heater over light bulbs and other appliances is that
the replacement cost for the light bulbs/ballasts/other units is
higher than for the furnace, which is optimized for producing heat.
Back when compact fluorescents were much more expensive, I used to
change back to cheap incandescent bulbs in the Fall, and put the CFs
back in in the Spring.

* If you heat with gas or oil, you will get some cost savings because
gas is cheaper per unit of energy than electricity, but typically not
a whole lot.

--Bryan

On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 13:32:34 -0700 (PDT), KevinS >
wrote:

> On Oct 29, 1:20*pm, sf > wrote:
>
> > Got the PG&E bill today. *Electric was $104 and Gas was under $3.
> > Huh, not even $3? *
>
> What's been your average bill in the last - say - two years? Have you
> gotten the "smart meter?"

It's hard to compare because we were on vacation last year for part of
the billing period, this year for at least part of the billing period.
There is definitely more electric usage for this year over last. How
do you keep the light factor high and the electric bill low?

--

Never trust a dog to watch your food.

On Oct 29, 4:40*pm, "Pete C." > wrote:
> Nancy Young wrote:
>
> > sf wrote:
> > > Got the PG&E bill today. *Electric was $104 and Gas was under $3.
> > > Huh, not even $3? *The water heater and gas stove are used daily. *We
> > > did have a little heat wave, but the furnace was used. *I need to call
> > > them to see if they made a billing mistake, because I will *not*
> > > appreciate it if they tack what they should have charged onto my next
> > > bill.
>
> > $3 wouldn't even cover those miscellaneous fees and taxes all
> > my utility bills have. *Are you on a budget plan? *I get free months
> > on my gas or electric when they overestimated my usage.
>
> > Also, I have recently gotten some kind of refund on my gas bill,
> > something about the gas being cheaper than they expected.
>
> > > I figure at least a third of that electricity was used by the kitchen
> > > lights. *What I really want to know is this: how do you keep the light
> > > factor high and your electric bill low for kitchen use? *I'm thinking
> > > I won't use the "pot" lights as much and just use under counter
> > > lighting to see if I can lower that charge next month.
>
> > LED lights cost almost nothing to use, perhaps you could put
> > some in as under counter lighting, it's very bright.
>
> > > Unfortunately, I think the biggest electric hog is the TV and that's
> > > not getting turned off any more than it is already.
>
> > That's why I'm thinking of getting LED/LCD when I replace my tv,
> > to lower electricity usage. *Not that my bills are high, in my opinion.

On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 16:33:37 -0400, Mr. Bill > wrote:

> On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 13:20:08 -0700, sf > wrote:
>
> >Unfortunately, I think the biggest electric hog is the TV and that's
> >not getting turned off any more than it is already.
>
> Gee...aren't you the luck one!! My last electric bill was $330!
>
I know it's not bad for some parts of the country, but I don't have an
air conditioner and we were on vacation part of the time.

--

Never trust a dog to watch your food.

On 2010-10-29, Omelet > wrote:

> All 100% fluorescent bulbs, and a hidden thermostat so the house temp
> stays stable!

A hidden thermostat? What? The house temperature stays more stable if the
thermostat hides from all those Fahrenheits?

nb

In article
>,
ImStillMags > wrote:

> On Oct 29, 1:55*pm, notbob > wrote:
> > On 2010-10-29, sf > wrote:
> >
> > > Unfortunately, I think the biggest electric hog is the TV and that's
> > > not getting turned off any more than it is already.
> >
> > Nope. *TVs do not comsume much.

That's what I thought. However, I did a Google, and some use quite a
bit. I couldn't get details, though.

> >*Motors (refrigerator) and
> > non-fluorescent lighting and electric heating are the big hogs.
> > Microwaves, too.

> So are computers and chlothes driers. Chlothes driers are the worst.

Some computers are pretty energy efficient. Our clothes drier uses very
little electricity. However, it heats using natural gas.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

On Oct 29, 5:00*pm, notbob > wrote:
> On 2010-10-29, Omelet > wrote:
>
> > All 100% fluorescent bulbs, and a hidden thermostat so the house temp
> > stays stable! *
>
> A hidden thermostat? *What? *The house temperature stays more stable if the
> thermostat hides from all those Fahrenheits?

She probably means hidden from her father, who might turn it way up or
way down for no good reason.
>
> nb

--Bryan

notbob wrote:
>sf wrote:
>
>> Unfortunately, I think the biggest electric hog is the TV and that's
>> not getting turned off any more than it is already.
>
>Nope. TVs do not comsume much. Motors (refrigerator) and
>non-fluorescent lighting and electric heating are the big hogs.
>Microwaves, too.

Microwaves save energy, one should use them as much as is practicable.

On Oct 29, 4:35*pm, "Pete C." > wrote:
> sf wrote:
>
> > Got the PG&E bill today. *Electric was $104 and Gas was under $3.
> > Huh, not even $3? *The water heater and gas stove are used daily. *We
> > did have a little heat wave, but the furnace was used. *I need to call
> > them to see if they made a billing mistake, because I will *not*
> > appreciate it if they tack what they should have charged onto my next
> > bill.
>
> > I figure at least a third of that electricity was used by the kitchen
> > lights. *What I really want to know is this: how do you keep the light
> > factor high and your electric bill low for kitchen use? *I'm thinking
> > I won't use the "pot" lights as much and just use under counter
> > lighting to see if I can lower that charge next month.
>
> > Unfortunately, I think the biggest electric hog is the TV and that's
> > not getting turned off any more than it is already.
>
> > --
>
> > Never trust a dog to watch your food.
>
> CFLs make a big difference in electric consumption, some 75% less than a
> comparable incandescent. Use those in your "pots" which I presume are
> recessed lights.
>
Unfortunately, some canned lights are bad at dissipating the heat,
especially since they're typically facing down, and a CFL's ballast
might roast in no time.

--Bryan

On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 16:40:45 -0500, "Pete C." >
wrote:

> Also, consider using a Kill-a-Watt meter
> to measure the real power consumption since the nameplate rating is max
> and few items really draw that max for more than a second or two at turn
> on.

KEWL! Thanks for the heads up on that.

--

Never trust a dog to watch your food.

sf wrote:
> On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 16:31:29 -0400, "Nancy Young"
> > wrote:
>
>> sf wrote:
>>> Got the PG&E bill today. Electric was $104 and Gas was under $3.
>>> Huh, not even $3?

>> $3 wouldn't even cover those miscellaneous fees and taxes all
>> my utility bills have.
>
> Those fees are factored into the bill.

Right, which is why a monthly bill wouldn't be lower than that, and
leads me to wonder if you haven't gotten a rebate on the gas bill.

>> Also, I have recently gotten some kind of refund on my gas bill,
>> something about the gas being cheaper than they expected.

>> That's why I'm thinking of getting LED/LCD when I replace my tv,
>> to lower electricity usage. Not that my bills are high, in my
>> opinion.
>>
> This one is plasma. If we close the door, it heats the room in the
> winter. I want to get an LED when the price drops to something
> reasonable.

I noticed they have come down in the last few months. I figure
it will pay for any higher price pretty quickly.

nancy

On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 20:50:10 +0000 (UTC),
(Steve Pope) wrote:

> sf > wrote:
>
>
> >Got the PG&E bill today. Electric was $104 and Gas was under $3.
> >Huh, not even $3? The water heater and gas stove are used daily. We
> >did have a little heat wave, but the furnace was used. I need to call
> >them to see if they made a billing mistake, because I will *not*
> >appreciate it if they tack what they should have charged onto my next
> >bill.
>
>
> Did they just switch you to a more modern meter on either gas or electric?
> The switcheroo might throw off the billing.
>
We've had a smart meter for a few months and although the gas shocked
me by how low it was, I'm okay with what they billed. However, I'd
like to try lowering my electric usage and kitchen the lights seem
like an obvious place to start. I can't work in the dark like I used
to which is why I said I wanted to keep the light factor high while
lowering the amount of energy they use. I think I'll use the under
counter lights more and the overhead lights less next month.


--

Never trust a dog to watch your food.

On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 13:20:08 -0700, sf wrote:

> Got the PG&E bill today. Electric was $104 and Gas was under $3.
> Huh, not even $3? The water heater and gas stove are used daily. We
> did have a little heat wave, but the furnace was used. I need to call
> them to see if they made a billing mistake, because I will *not*
> appreciate it if they tack what they should have charged onto my next
> bill.

Gas and electric bills are estimates between the actual meter
readings, which they ever do 3-4 months unless your neighborhood
has been converted to wireless meters (with antennaes on top of the
light poles). They probably just read your meter and made the
overpayment adjustment.

Next time you have an OT brain fart, take it to the chat room, eh?
notbob could have told you all this, too.

-sw

On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 16:52:52 -0400, Brooklyn1 <Gravesend1> wrote:

> What are "pot lights"?

Pot lights are recessed lighting. They're not pot lights, but I
didn't know what else to call them and I didn't think it mattered in
this discussion. Here they are. http://oi54.tinypic.com/2guy0kh.jpg
You figure out what they are called. I call them the "microphone
lights", but that would have really confused you.
>
> The only way to lower electric bills is to lower electric consumption...

Well, duh. Why didn't I think of that?

> most folks nowadays waste
> more electric than they use, everytime you use your electric oven to
> bake one potato you consume more electric than your TV consumes all
> day... how old are you?

Why are you lecturing me on how to use an oven?


--

Never trust a dog to watch your food.

sf wrote:
>
> On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 13:32:34 -0700 (PDT), KevinS >
> wrote:
>
> > On Oct 29, 1:20 pm, sf > wrote:
> >
> > > Got the PG&E bill today. Electric was $104 and Gas was under $3.
> > > Huh, not even $3?
> >
> > What's been your average bill in the last - say - two years? Have you
> > gotten the "smart meter?"
>
> It's hard to compare because we were on vacation last year for part of
> the billing period, this year for at least part of the billing period.
> There is definitely more electric usage for this year over last. How
> do you keep the light factor high and the electric bill low?

You start by not assuming that the lights are the cause of the higher
bill. What you need to do is to audit in as much detail as you can your
actual power usage to see where the power is really going. Carefully
review and not anything that is new or different from last year.

Simple things like a dirty evaporator coil on a refrigerator or a sticky
defrost timer can make a big difference in power consumption since the
refrigerator operates all the time.

You also need to compare KWH used last year to KWH used this year, *not*
the total bill, since rates have undoubtedly changed and 100 KWH this
year almost certainly costs more than 100 KWH last year.

On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 14:14:52 -0700 (PDT), Nancy2
> wrote:

> Another thing you can do (which is really a nuisance) is to unplug all
> those electronic things like phone chargers, transformers on audio-
> visual equipment, etc. - anything with an indicator light that's on
> all the time - because those things drain electric power.

I know! I tried unplugging the TV and all the things attached to it.
What a royal PITA getting restarted. I thought I'd lost my settings,
but the digital equipment just needed time to reset. I'm not going to
go through *that* on a daily basis!

--

Never trust a dog to watch your food.

On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 16:35:06 -0500, "Pete C." >
wrote:

> Your refrigerator will be one of your top energy users, so if it's not
> relatively new you can probably save some energy with a newer model.

It's probably 6-8 years old. A new one might be a little more energy
efficient, but not enough to justify spending a thousand dollars on a
newer model.

--

Never trust a dog to watch your food.

"sf" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 16:52:52 -0400, Brooklyn1 <Gravesend1> wrote:
>
>> What are "pot lights"?
>
> Pot lights are recessed lighting. They're not pot lights, but I
> didn't know what else to call them and I didn't think it mattered in
> this discussion. Here they are. http://oi54.tinypic.com/2guy0kh.jpg
> You figure out what they are called. I call them the "microphone
> lights", but that would have really confused you.

Looks like track lighting.



Brian
--
Day 632 of the "no grouchy usenet posts" project.
Current music playing: None

"Default User" > wrote in message
...
> "sf" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 16:52:52 -0400, Brooklyn1 <Gravesend1> wrote:
>>
>>> What are "pot lights"?
>>
>> Pot lights are recessed lighting. They're not pot lights, but I
>> didn't know what else to call them and I didn't think it mattered in
>> this discussion. Here they are. http://oi54.tinypic.com/2guy0kh.jpg
>> You figure out what they are called. I call them the "microphone
>> lights", but that would have really confused you.
>
> Looks like track lighting.

It is.

On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 18:32:55 -0400, "Nancy Young"
> wrote:

> sf wrote:
> > On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 16:31:29 -0400, "Nancy Young"
> > > wrote:
> >
> >> sf wrote:
> >>> Got the PG&E bill today. Electric was $104 and Gas was under $3.
> >>> Huh, not even $3?
>
> >> $3 wouldn't even cover those miscellaneous fees and taxes all
> >> my utility bills have.
> >
> > Those fees are factored into the bill.
>
> Right, which is why a monthly bill wouldn't be lower than that, and
> leads me to wonder if you haven't gotten a rebate on the gas bill.

I've looked and looked at that bill and don't see anything like that,
but that could be the answer.

--

Never trust a dog to watch your food.

On Oct 29, 4:20*pm, sf > wrote:
> Got the PG&E bill today. *Electric was $104 and Gas was under $3.
> Huh, not even $3? *The water heater and gas stove are used daily. *We
> did have a little heat wave, but the furnace was used. *I need to call
> them to see if they made a billing mistake, because I will *not*
> appreciate it if they tack what they should have charged onto my next
> bill.
>
> I figure at least a third of that electricity was used by the kitchen
> lights. *What I really want to know is this: how do you keep the light
> factor high and your electric bill low for kitchen use? *I'm thinking
> I won't use the "pot" lights as much and just use under counter
> lighting to see if I can lower that charge next month. *
>
> Unfortunately, I think the biggest electric hog is the TV and that's
> not getting turned off any more than it is already.
>
> --
>
> Never trust a dog to watch your food.

What is your usage? What is your rate? How many days did this bill
cover? How many in your household?
Hard to know if your bill is outrageous without knowing some facts.

On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 13:59:38 -0700 (PDT), ImStillMags
> wrote:

>On Oct 29, 1:55*pm, notbob > wrote:
>> On 2010-10-29, sf > wrote:
>>
>> > Unfortunately, I think the biggest electric hog is the TV and that's
>> > not getting turned off any more than it is already.
>>
>> Nope. *TVs do not comsume much. *Motors (refrigerator) and
>> non-fluorescent lighting and electric heating are the big hogs.
>> Microwaves, too.
>>
>> nb
>
>So are computers and chlothes driers. Chlothes driers are the worst.

Computerrs are mainly solid state, they use very little electricity.
With clothers dryers it depends how often they're used but generally
electic cooking is the biggest user.