In article >,
"K" > wrote:

> That may be correct. Nuoc mam is made from fermented fish heads, smells to
> high heaven, but might be the most sensational flavor you'll ever taste.
>
> Keith

I've tried it a few times, and ruined more than one dish with it. :-(
Fish sauce sucks... at least in my opinion. Tastes like fermented
(rotten) fish. Must be an aquired taste.

I've been using the rest of the bottle as bait in fly traps. Works great
for that!
--
Peace! Om

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
*Only Irish *coffee provides in a single glass all four *essential food groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar *and fat. --Alex Levine

On Sun, 16 May 2010 22:28:47 -0500, Omelet wrote:

> I've tried it a few times, and ruined more than one dish with it. :-(
> Fish sauce sucks... at least in my opinion. Tastes like fermented
> (rotten) fish. Must be an aquired taste.

You need to use it sparingly. It's what makes Worcestershire taste
so good.

It's used in practically all Vietnamese cooking either in the dish,
or as a dip. Great stuff, as others will agree.

Most recipes I see call for too much.

-sw

In article >,
Sqwertz > wrote:

> On Sun, 16 May 2010 22:28:47 -0500, Omelet wrote:
>
> > I've tried it a few times, and ruined more than one dish with it. :-(
> > Fish sauce sucks... at least in my opinion. Tastes like fermented
> > (rotten) fish. Must be an aquired taste.
>
> You need to use it sparingly. It's what makes Worcestershire taste
> so good.
>
> It's used in practically all Vietnamese cooking either in the dish,
> or as a dip. Great stuff, as others will agree.
>
> Most recipes I see call for too much.
>
> -sw

Guess I'll have to use it drop-wise, like I do Sesame oil...
Ok, I'll try it one more time!
--
Peace! Om

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
Only Irish coffee provides in a single glass all four essential food groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar and fat. --Alex Levine

Omelet wrote on Mon, 17 May 2010 05:32:57 -0500:

>> On Sun, 16 May 2010 22:28:47 -0500, Omelet wrote:
>>
> >> I've tried it a few times, and ruined more than one dish
> >> with it. :-( Fish sauce sucks... at least in my opinion.
> >> Tastes like fermented (rotten) fish. Must be an aquired
> >> taste.
>>
>> You need to use it sparingly. It's what makes Worcestershire
>> taste so good.
>>
>> It's used in practically all Vietnamese cooking either in the
>> dish, or as a dip. Great stuff, as others will agree.
>>
>> Most recipes I see call for too much.
>>
>> -sw

> Guess I'll have to use it drop-wise, like I do Sesame oil...
> Ok, I'll try it one more time!

Incorporated into various dishes, marinades and sauces in the correct
(small) quantities,*Thai* fish sauce adds a great flavor to various
dishes. However, for "scientific" interest, I once drank about 1/4
teaspoon and spent the next 5 minutes cleaning my teeth and using
mouthwash: never again! Incidentally, I find the appearance of most
Asian fish sauces rather disgusting. I only use the clear light brown or
yellow Thai version; the brand I stick to is Golden Boy.

--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

On 5/17/2010 6:32 AM, Omelet wrote:
> In >,
> > wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 16 May 2010 22:28:47 -0500, Omelet wrote:
>>
>>> I've tried it a few times, and ruined more than one dish with it. :-(
>>> Fish sauce sucks... at least in my opinion. Tastes like fermented
>>> (rotten) fish. Must be an aquired taste.
>>
>> You need to use it sparingly. It's what makes Worcestershire taste
>> so good.
>>
>> It's used in practically all Vietnamese cooking either in the dish,
>> or as a dip. Great stuff, as others will agree.
>>
>> Most recipes I see call for too much.
>>
>> -sw
>
> Guess I'll have to use it drop-wise, like I do Sesame oil...
> Ok, I'll try it one more time!

That is a good comparison. It is definitely easy to overwhelm a dish but
a little adds great taste.

On Sun, 16 May 2010 22:28:47 -0500, Omelet >
wrote:

> I've tried it a few times, and ruined more than one dish with it. :-(
> Fish sauce sucks... at least in my opinion. Tastes like fermented
> (rotten) fish. Must be an aquired taste.

You used too much. I don't cook with it, but I don't hesitate to eat
dishes that have it because used properly it's like Worcestershire
sauce - it adds (I can't believe I'm using this word) umami.

--
Forget the health food. I need all the preservatives I can get.

On 17/05/2010 11:01 PM, George wrote:
> On 5/17/2010 6:32 AM, Omelet wrote:
>> In >,
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 16 May 2010 22:28:47 -0500, Omelet wrote:
>>>
>>>> I've tried it a few times, and ruined more than one dish with it. :-(
>>>> Fish sauce sucks... at least in my opinion. Tastes like fermented
>>>> (rotten) fish. Must be an aquired taste.
>>>
>>> You need to use it sparingly. It's what makes Worcestershire taste
>>> so good.
>>>
>>> It's used in practically all Vietnamese cooking either in the dish,
>>> or as a dip. Great stuff, as others will agree.
>>>
>>> Most recipes I see call for too much.
>>>
>>> -sw
>>
>> Guess I'll have to use it drop-wise, like I do Sesame oil...
>> Ok, I'll try it one more time!
>
> That is a good comparison. It is definitely easy to overwhelm a dish but
> a little adds great taste.

With Vietnamese dishes, it is far more preferable to use too little than
too much, especially if you are not Asian. You can always add later at
the table if you find it too bland but, if you've overdone it, there's
no way to neutralise or weaken the taste.

I'd give the same advice when adding chillis or chilli sauces. Asians,
especially Thais, can tolerate the heat better than nearly all
westerners. I tend to prefer my dishes hotter than even my wife can
handle them and she is Vietnamese.

Krypsis

On 2010-05-17 06:27:40 -0700, sf said:

> On Sun, 16 May 2010 22:28:47 -0500, Omelet >
> wrote:
>
>> I've tried it a few times, and ruined more than one dish with it. :-(
>> Fish sauce sucks... at least in my opinion. Tastes like fermented
>> (rotten) fish. Must be an aquired taste.
>
> You used too much. I don't cook with it, but I don't hesitate to eat
> dishes that have it because used properly it's like Worcestershire
> sauce - it adds (I can't believe I'm using this word) umami.

I eat in Vietnamese restaurants every week. There are at least 6 in
rotation, and another new one every few weeks that we check out. Nuoc
cham and nuac mam come with most meals, in a little bowl next to your
noodles or spring rolls or whatever. You dunk things in or pour things
on.

It's simply an acquired taste. When I first began easting Vietnamese
food regularly, about 15 years ago, I found the fish sauce somewhat
"demanding". And on single occasions found the taste vacillating
between compelling and rupulsive. The same thing happened 15 years
before that, when I began eating sushi. I'd switch in an instant from
delight to disgust back to delight again. I was just acclimating, more
psychological than anything.

I forget that not everybody has acclimated to the fish sauce though.
When we take friends to Vietnamese places I'm always surprised at how
fearful they are about the fish sauce.

On Saturday night we ate a Vietnamese place that serves 8 course of
fish, and there were four small bowls of fish sauce; regular nuac mam,
another version which was more spicy version, nuoc cham which is
peanuty and used for spring rolls, and then a thick greyish one with a
cheesy smell/taste to it. We find the latter in joints that serve food
from Hue, in central Vietnam, more often than those with South
Vietnamese fare. The first thing the non-Asian floor manager did after
chatting with us briefly, was to take that bowl away. We stopped him
and he was genuinely shocked that non-Asians would touch it. But we do
use it very judiciously.

The horror of drinking a 1/4 tsp of nuoc mam is really pretty funny. I
don't find any use in it, but could chug a 1/2 cup I suppose. Once
while touring Mexico with a musical group we were eating in a
restaurant with our interpreter. One musician who found jalapeños
equivalent to fire-eating, offered our Mexican friend 40 bucks to eat a
whole jalapeno. The guy popped one his mouth and stuck out his hand. My
buddy got very little entertainment for his money. The interpreter said
something to another person near by, and that guy offered to eat two
for $50. My buddy declined.

It seems I've read that it is made by putting a few bushels of
anchovies, and likely other small fish, sardines and smelt and such
into a big barrel perhaps in some vinegar, and letting them
disintegrate.

My wife, who's cooks some Vietnamese dishes yells from the next room:

Nuoc mam as we find it in the restaurants is actually nuac mam lac, or
a lighter version of fish sauce used for dipping. It has a significant
amount of sugar and some chili's added. The peanutty sauce is nuoc
leo, and we're still arguing over whether it has any actual fish sauce
in it (as nuoc cham dau phung).

On Mon, 17 May 2010 08:55:43 -0400, James Silverton wrote:

> Incorporated into various dishes, marinades and sauces in the correct
> (small) quantities,*Thai* fish sauce adds a great flavor to various
> dishes.

Thai fish sauce is the same as Vietnamese. Most Thai brands are
made in Vietnam (Phu Quoc to be exact). Golden Boy is an exception.

-sw

On Mon, 17 May 2010 11:54:52 -0700, gtr wrote:

> On Saturday night we ate a Vietnamese place that serves 8 course of
> fish, and there were four small bowls of fish sauce; regular nuac mam,
> another version which was more spicy version, nuoc cham which is
> peanuty and used for spring rolls, and then a thick greyish one with a
> cheesy smell/taste to it. We find the latter in joints that serve food
> from Hue, in central Vietnam, more often than those with South
> Vietnamese fare. The first thing the non-Asian floor manager did after
> chatting with us briefly, was to take that bowl away. We stopped him
> and he was genuinely shocked that non-Asians would touch it. But we do
> use it very judiciously.

"Nuoc mam" is the straight fish sauce.

"Nuoc cham" is the dip made from nuoc mam with vinegar, sugar,
water, lime, chili, shredeed carrot and/or daikonetc... The most
common sauce at American vietnamese restaurants.

The last sounds like mam nem - made from the whole fish that was
used to make nuoc mam. It contains crushed pineapple. I eat this
all the time. We just had a conversatiuon about it in AFA. It's
usually served with 7 courses of beef (never heard of 7 courses of
fish). Mam nem is the name of the fish [paste] and the dipping
sauce.

And the peanut version is ... I'm, drawing a blank on th vietnamese
term for that.

-sw

In article >,
"James Silverton" > wrote:

> Omelet wrote on Mon, 17 May 2010 05:32:57 -0500:
>
> >> On Sun, 16 May 2010 22:28:47 -0500, Omelet wrote:
> >>
> > >> I've tried it a few times, and ruined more than one dish
> > >> with it. :-( Fish sauce sucks... at least in my opinion.
> > >> Tastes like fermented (rotten) fish. Must be an aquired
> > >> taste.
> >>
> >> You need to use it sparingly. It's what makes Worcestershire
> >> taste so good.
> >>
> >> It's used in practically all Vietnamese cooking either in the
> >> dish, or as a dip. Great stuff, as others will agree.
> >>
> >> Most recipes I see call for too much.
> >>
> >> -sw
>
> > Guess I'll have to use it drop-wise, like I do Sesame oil...
> > Ok, I'll try it one more time!
>
> Incorporated into various dishes, marinades and sauces in the correct
> (small) quantities,*Thai* fish sauce adds a great flavor to various
> dishes. However, for "scientific" interest, I once drank about 1/4
> teaspoon and spent the next 5 minutes cleaning my teeth and using
> mouthwash: never again! Incidentally, I find the appearance of most
> Asian fish sauces rather disgusting. I only use the clear light brown or
> yellow Thai version; the brand I stick to is Golden Boy.

I can't recall my brand at the moment, but it is clear and golden, but
still reeks of fermented fish.

It works great for drowning fly trap bait. <g>
--
Peace! Om

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
*Only Irish *coffee provides in a single glass all four *essential food groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar *and fat. --Alex Levine

In article >,
George > wrote:

> On 5/17/2010 6:32 AM, Omelet wrote:
> > In >,
> > > wrote:
> >
> >> On Sun, 16 May 2010 22:28:47 -0500, Omelet wrote:
> >>
> >>> I've tried it a few times, and ruined more than one dish with it. :-(
> >>> Fish sauce sucks... at least in my opinion. Tastes like fermented
> >>> (rotten) fish. Must be an aquired taste.
> >>
> >> You need to use it sparingly. It's what makes Worcestershire taste
> >> so good.
> >>
> >> It's used in practically all Vietnamese cooking either in the dish,
> >> or as a dip. Great stuff, as others will agree.
> >>
> >> Most recipes I see call for too much.
> >>
> >> -sw
> >
> > Guess I'll have to use it drop-wise, like I do Sesame oil...
> > Ok, I'll try it one more time!
>
> That is a good comparison. It is definitely easy to overwhelm a dish but
> a little adds great taste.

Thanks.

I am brave and have plenty left!
--
Peace! Om

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
*Only Irish *coffee provides in a single glass all four *essential food groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar *and fat. --Alex Levine

In article >,
sf > wrote:

> On Sun, 16 May 2010 22:28:47 -0500, Omelet >
> wrote:
>
> > I've tried it a few times, and ruined more than one dish with it. :-(
> > Fish sauce sucks... at least in my opinion. Tastes like fermented
> > (rotten) fish. Must be an aquired taste.
>
> You used too much. I don't cook with it, but I don't hesitate to eat
> dishes that have it because used properly it's like Worcestershire
> sauce - it adds (I can't believe I'm using this word) umami.

For umami, I use Accent. <g>
But, I've not totally given up fish sauce yet. Too many have
recommended it.

I LOVE oyster sauce!
--
Peace! Om

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
Only Irish coffee provides in a single glass all four essential food groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar and fat. --Alex Levine

In article <2010051711545226020-xxx@yyyzzz>, gtr > wrote:

> The horror of drinking a 1/4 tsp of nuoc mam is really pretty funny. I
> don't find any use in it, but could chug a 1/2 cup I suppose. Once
> while touring Mexico with a musical group we were eating in a
> restaurant with our interpreter. One musician who found jalapeños
> equivalent to fire-eating, offered our Mexican friend 40 bucks to eat a
> whole jalapeno. The guy popped one his mouth and stuck out his hand. My
> buddy got very little entertainment for his money. The interpreter said
> something to another person near by, and that guy offered to eat two
> for $50. My buddy declined.
>
> It seems I've read that it is made by putting a few bushels of
> anchovies, and likely other small fish, sardines and smelt and such
> into a big barrel perhaps in some vinegar, and letting them
> disintegrate.
>
> My wife, who's cooks some Vietnamese dishes yells from the next room:
>
> Nuoc mam as we find it in the restaurants is actually nuac mam lac, or
> a lighter version of fish sauce used for dipping. It has a significant
> amount of sugar and some chili's added. The peanutty sauce is nuoc
> leo, and we're still arguing over whether it has any actual fish sauce
> in it (as nuoc cham dau phung).

<lol> Thanks for the perspective! :-)
--
Peace! Om

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
*Only Irish *coffee provides in a single glass all four *essential food groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar *and fat. --Alex Levine

In article >,
Omelet > wrote:

> In article >,
> sf > wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 16 May 2010 22:28:47 -0500, Omelet >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > I've tried it a few times, and ruined more than one dish with it. :-(
> > > Fish sauce sucks... at least in my opinion. Tastes like fermented
> > > (rotten) fish. Must be an aquired taste.
> >
> > You used too much. I don't cook with it, but I don't hesitate to eat
> > dishes that have it because used properly it's like Worcestershire
> > sauce - it adds (I can't believe I'm using this word) umami.
>
> For umami, I use Accent. <g>
> But, I've not totally given up fish sauce yet. Too many have
> recommended it.
>
> I LOVE oyster sauce!

There are different grades of fish sauce. The nuoc mam nhi or the Phu
Quoc style fish sauces are more delicate than others. Avoid, at all
costs, the Tips or Tiparos fish sauces. They are way too strong.

Cindy

--
C.J. Fuller

Delete the obvious to email me

In article >,
Cindy Fuller > wrote:

> In article >,
> Omelet > wrote:
>
> > In article >,
> > sf > wrote:
> >
> > > On Sun, 16 May 2010 22:28:47 -0500, Omelet >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > I've tried it a few times, and ruined more than one dish with it. :-(
> > > > Fish sauce sucks... at least in my opinion. Tastes like fermented
> > > > (rotten) fish. Must be an aquired taste.
> > >
> > > You used too much. I don't cook with it, but I don't hesitate to eat
> > > dishes that have it because used properly it's like Worcestershire
> > > sauce - it adds (I can't believe I'm using this word) umami.
> >
> > For umami, I use Accent. <g>
> > But, I've not totally given up fish sauce yet. Too many have
> > recommended it.
> >
> > I LOVE oyster sauce!
>
> There are different grades of fish sauce. The nuoc mam nhi or the Phu
> Quoc style fish sauces are more delicate than others. Avoid, at all
> costs, the Tips or Tiparos fish sauces. They are way too strong.
>
> Cindy

I'll keep that in mind, thanks!
--
Peace! Om

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
*Only Irish *coffee provides in a single glass all four *essential food groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar *and fat. --Alex Levine

Om wrote:

>>>>> I've tried it a few times, and ruined more than one dish with it. :-(
>>>>> Fish sauce sucks... at least in my opinion. Tastes like fermented
>>>>> (rotten) fish. Must be an aquired taste.
>>>>
>>>> You need to use it sparingly. It's what makes Worcestershire taste
>>>> so good.
>>>>
>>>> It's used in practically all Vietnamese cooking either in the dish,
>>>> or as a dip. Great stuff, as others will agree.
>>>>
>>>> Most recipes I see call for too much.
>>>>
>>>> -sw
>>>
>>> Guess I'll have to use it drop-wise, like I do Sesame oil...
>>> Ok, I'll try it one more time!
>>
>> That is a good comparison. It is definitely easy to overwhelm a dish but
>> a little adds great taste.
>
> Thanks.
>
> I am brave and have plenty left!


You make rice paper wrappers all the time; you really should try nuoc cham
as a dipping sauce with them. Here's a recipe:

2/3 cup hot water
3 tablespoons sugar
3 serrano chiles, sliced very thinly
1/3 cup fresh lime juice
4-6 tablespoons fish sauce (see instructions)

Combine the sugar, chiles, and water. Stir to dissolve the sugar. (The fact
that the water is hot makes this pretty easy. The hotter the water, the
easier the sugar dissolves. The hot water also slightly cooks the chiles,
which softens them slightly and extracts some of their flavor into the
sauce.) Cool for 15 minutes. Add the lime juice and stir to combine.

Add the fish sauce, starting out with 4 tablespoons. Taste and add more fish
sauce, one or two drops at a time, until you have balanced the sweet, sour,
and salty flavor notes in the sauce to your liking.

If you want a somewhat-different sour note, you can add a tablespoon of
unsweetened rice vinegar.

This sauce is not something you'll consume by itself, so when you're tasting
it, keep your final use in mind. If that final use could benefit from
garlic, add minced garlic. (If you do, just remember that the garlic flavor
will become stronger as the sauce sits.)

Although I don't think it's authentically Vietnamese, you could use other
sour ingredients:

A. Mash a tablespoon of tamarind pulp in a quarter-cup of boiling water and
use that in place of the lime juice.

B. If you can find sour green apples, use their juice in place of the lime
juice. (This would be especially good if your rice paper wrappers contained
red bell pepper and leftover roast pork.)

C. Use white grapefruit juice in place of the lime juice, and add a teaspoon
of grapefruit zest. (This is particularly good with grilled fish.)

Bob

Bob wrote on Wed, 19 May 2010 09:25:44 -0700:

>>>>>> I've tried it a few times, and ruined more than one dish with it.
>>>>>> :-( Fish sauce sucks... at least in my opinion. Tastes like
>>>>>> fermented (rotten) fish. Must be an aquired
>>>>>> taste.
>>>>>
>>>>> You need to use it sparingly. It's what makes
>>>>> Worcestershire taste so good.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's used in practically all Vietnamese cooking either in the
>>>>> dish, or as a dip. Great stuff, as others will agree.
>>>>>
>>>>> Most recipes I see call for too much.
>>>>>
>>>>> -sw
>>>>
>>>> Guess I'll have to use it drop-wise, like I do Sesame
>>>> oil... Ok, I'll try it one more time!
>>>
>>> That is a good comparison. It is definitely easy to
>>> overwhelm a dish but a little adds great taste.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> I am brave and have plenty left!

> You make rice paper wrappers all the time; you really should
> try nuoc cham as a dipping sauce with them. Here's a recipe:

> 2/3 cup hot water
> 3 tablespoons sugar
> 3 serrano chiles, sliced very thinly
> 1/3 cup fresh lime juice
> 4-6 tablespoons fish sauce (see instructions)

This recipe gives the essentials pretty well. You need acid, chiles and
sugar. Rice vinegar and different chiles can be used. The red pepper
flakes that people sprinkle on pizza actually work quite well, IMHO.


--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

"Bob Terwilliger" wrote
> Om wrote:

>>>>>> I've tried it a few times, and ruined more than one dish with it. :-(
>>>>>> Fish sauce sucks... at least in my opinion. Tastes like fermented
>>>>>> (rotten) fish. Must be an aquired taste.

>>>>> Most recipes I see call for too much.

> You make rice paper wrappers all the time; you really should try nuoc cham
> as a dipping sauce with them. Here's a recipe:

> 4-6 tablespoons fish sauce (see instructions)

Bob, this is likely the confusion. There are many types of 'fish sauce'
all labeled that when they try to put something in english on there. This
recipe for example definately doesnt use Thailand Tiparos 'fish sauce' (a
true Patis which I think is what Om has). A true 'patis' (Filipeno for
this) is used in small 'squizzles' as I call it. Thats 1/8 or so TS for
American tastes, 1/2 TS for asian in most recipes. The lighter versions may
be used by the TB.

"Omelet" wrote
> sf wrote:

>> > I've tried it a few times, and ruined more than one dish with it. :-(
>> > Fish sauce sucks... at least in my opinion. Tastes like fermented
>> > (rotten) fish. Must be an aquired taste.
>>
>> You used too much. I don't cook with it, but I don't hesitate to eat
>> dishes that have it because used properly it's like Worcestershire
>> sauce - it adds (I can't believe I'm using this word) umami.
>
> For umami, I use Accent. <g>
> But, I've not totally given up fish sauce yet. Too many have
> recommended it.

Hehe it adds a depth of umami you've yet to experience. It's also very
brand/country specific to how much you'd use. Think of it like this. Some
of them are more concentrated and others are watery by comparison. Some
labels of 'fish sauce' mean 'sauce to be used with fish' and contain no fish
(nor do they taste fishy).

It sounds like you have one as concentrated as the Thai Tiparos. The
squared plastic bottle has a nipple that you push a pin through then
'squizzle' it out (or you can nip it but you are apt to get too much too
fast). Start with 1/8 ts added to recipe of choice then see if you want to
up it.

cshenk wrote:

>> 4-6 tablespoons fish sauce (see instructions)
>
> Bob, this is likely the confusion. There are many types of 'fish sauce'
> all labeled that when they try to put something in english on there. This
> recipe for example definately doesnt use Thailand Tiparos 'fish sauce' (a
> true Patis which I think is what Om has). A true 'patis' (Filipeno for
> this) is used in small 'squizzles' as I call it. Thats 1/8 or so TS for
> American tastes, 1/2 TS for asian in most recipes. The lighter versions
> may be used by the TB.

Actually, when I make nuoc cham, I use Tiparos brand fish sauce. Did you not
notice the relatively large amount of WATER in the recipe?

Bob

What is the significant difference between Thai and Vietnamese bottled
fish sauces?

There are also variations of quality between brands. Cindy and I are
currently using Three Crabs brand. It was recommended in several of her
southeast Asian cookbooks.

I'll repeat the advice given in another post. If you are working from
an Asian recipe, start with less fish sauce than the recipe specifies.
Maybe half. As you get accustomed to (or addicted to) the flavor of the
stuff, you can add more.

--
Julian Vrieslander

In article >,
"Bob Terwilliger" > wrote:

> You make rice paper wrappers all the time; you really should try nuoc cham
> as a dipping sauce with them. Here's a recipe:

Not all the time, but I do make them a lot. <g>
Thanks for the recipe. I'll have to sub Splenda for the sugar, but
that's ok! I'll also probably sub canned green chiles for the Serrano.
They are easier to mash (and I can trust them to be mild) to make a dip.

Thanks!

>
> 2/3 cup hot water
> 3 tablespoons sugar
> 3 serrano chiles, sliced very thinly
> 1/3 cup fresh lime juice
> 4-6 tablespoons fish sauce (see instructions)
>
> Combine the sugar, chiles, and water. Stir to dissolve the sugar. (The fact
> that the water is hot makes this pretty easy. The hotter the water, the
> easier the sugar dissolves. The hot water also slightly cooks the chiles,
> which softens them slightly and extracts some of their flavor into the
> sauce.) Cool for 15 minutes. Add the lime juice and stir to combine.
>
> Add the fish sauce, starting out with 4 tablespoons. Taste and add more fish
> sauce, one or two drops at a time, until you have balanced the sweet, sour,
> and salty flavor notes in the sauce to your liking.
>
> If you want a somewhat-different sour note, you can add a tablespoon of
> unsweetened rice vinegar.
>
> This sauce is not something you'll consume by itself, so when you're tasting
> it, keep your final use in mind. If that final use could benefit from
> garlic, add minced garlic. (If you do, just remember that the garlic flavor
> will become stronger as the sauce sits.)
>
> Although I don't think it's authentically Vietnamese, you could use other
> sour ingredients:
>
> A. Mash a tablespoon of tamarind pulp in a quarter-cup of boiling water and
> use that in place of the lime juice.
>
> B. If you can find sour green apples, use their juice in place of the lime
> juice. (This would be especially good if your rice paper wrappers contained
> red bell pepper and leftover roast pork.)
>
> C. Use white grapefruit juice in place of the lime juice, and add a teaspoon
> of grapefruit zest. (This is particularly good with grilled fish.)
>
> Bob
--
Peace! Om

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
*Only Irish *coffee provides in a single glass all four *essential food groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar *and fat. --Alex Levine

In article >,
"cshenk" > wrote:

> "Omelet" wrote
> > sf wrote:
>
> >> > I've tried it a few times, and ruined more than one dish with it. :-(
> >> > Fish sauce sucks... at least in my opinion. Tastes like fermented
> >> > (rotten) fish. Must be an aquired taste.
> >>
> >> You used too much. I don't cook with it, but I don't hesitate to eat
> >> dishes that have it because used properly it's like Worcestershire
> >> sauce - it adds (I can't believe I'm using this word) umami.
> >
> > For umami, I use Accent. <g>
> > But, I've not totally given up fish sauce yet. Too many have
> > recommended it.
>
> Hehe it adds a depth of umami you've yet to experience. It's also very
> brand/country specific to how much you'd use. Think of it like this. Some
> of them are more concentrated and others are watery by comparison. Some
> labels of 'fish sauce' mean 'sauce to be used with fish' and contain no fish
> (nor do they taste fishy).
>
> It sounds like you have one as concentrated as the Thai Tiparos. The
> squared plastic bottle has a nipple that you push a pin through then
> 'squizzle' it out (or you can nip it but you are apt to get too much too
> fast). Start with 1/8 ts added to recipe of choice then see if you want to
> up it.

I just need to get off my ass and go to the refrigerator and post the
brand: Tiparos. Ok, so it's what my local grocer carries... ;-)

So I need to go lightly.
--
Peace! Om

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
*Only Irish *coffee provides in a single glass all four *essential food groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar *and fat. --Alex Levine

On Wed, 19 May 2010 15:20:48 -0700, Bob Terwilliger wrote:

> cshenk wrote:
>
>>> 4-6 tablespoons fish sauce (see instructions)
>>
>> Bob, this is likely the confusion. There are many types of 'fish sauce'
>> all labeled that when they try to put something in english on there. This
>> recipe for example definately doesnt use Thailand Tiparos 'fish sauce' (a
>> true Patis which I think is what Om has). A true 'patis' (Filipeno for
>> this) is used in small 'squizzles' as I call it. Thats 1/8 or so TS for
>> American tastes, 1/2 TS for asian in most recipes. The lighter versions
>> may be used by the TB.
>
> Actually, when I make nuoc cham, I use Tiparos brand fish sauce. Did you not
> notice the relatively large amount of WATER in the recipe?
>
> Bob

i did. i thought it was a lot, frankly, but i don't know how strong
tiparos is. i usually have squid brand on hand.

your pal,
blake

"Omelet" wrote
> "cshenk" wrote:

>> Hehe it adds a depth of umami you've yet to experience. It's also very
>> brand/country specific to how much you'd use. Think of it like this.
>> Some
>> of them are more concentrated and others are watery by comparison. Some
>> labels of 'fish sauce' mean 'sauce to be used with fish' and contain no
>> fish
>> (nor do they taste fishy).
>>
>> It sounds like you have one as concentrated as the Thai Tiparos. The
>> squared plastic bottle has a nipple that you push a pin through then
>> 'squizzle' it out (or you can nip it but you are apt to get too much too
>> fast). Start with 1/8 ts added to recipe of choice then see if you want
>> to
>> up it.
>
> I just need to get off my ass and go to the refrigerator and post the
> brand: Tiparos. Ok, so it's what my local grocer carries... ;-)

> So I need to go lightly.

There ya go! Same one I love. It's real stuff, not fake brewed. A bottle
lasts even this asiatic cook, about 3 years. True asians, last near a year.
I suspected something was up when one person added 4-6 TB in a recipe and
yours didnt match at all.

You are correct. Start using it in what I call small squizzles of about 1/4
ts to recipes. If a recipe doesnt seem tp adapt right, use 1 part soy
sauce, 3 parts chicken broth and 'squizzle' until it tastes right to you.
This will replicate those weaker versions relatively well and fit the
american palate pretty close.

You can utterly wreak a dish with too much of it. The right touch though is
sublime. Tiparos alone is not a 'dipping sauce' normally though it may be
added to other things to make it part of the component.

"gtr" wrote

> What is the significant difference between Thai and Vietnamese bottled
> fish sauces?

Significant. Mostly a vietnamese can be used alone but the thai is mixed
with other things and is much stronger. Neither is better or worse than the
other as they are for different uses in culinary skills. You can however
use Thai versions with additions to water them down and make viet dishes of
it. You can not reverse engineer this well to make a concentrate of a
watery viet version.

"blake murphy" wrote
> Bob Terwilliger wrote:
>> cshenk wrote:

>>>> 4-6 tablespoons fish sauce (see instructions)

>>> Bob, this is likely the confusion. There are many types of 'fish sauce'

>> notice the relatively large amount of WATER in the recipe?

> i did. i thought it was a lot, frankly, but i don't know how strong
> tiparos is. i usually have squid brand on hand.

I didnt notice his water use but 4-6 TB would need a 1/4 liter of water at
least if tiparos? I dont have any of the other versions handy to check this
but there's a serious difference in brands going on.

If it helps any, OM checked and she has Tiparos. Recipes made for less
fishy (watery) 'fish sauces' will not work for that.

In article >,
"cshenk" > wrote:

> > I just need to get off my ass and go to the refrigerator and post the
> > brand: Tiparos. Ok, so it's what my local grocer carries... ;-)
>
> > So I need to go lightly.
>
> There ya go! Same one I love. It's real stuff, not fake brewed. A bottle
> lasts even this asiatic cook, about 3 years. True asians, last near a year.
> I suspected something was up when one person added 4-6 TB in a recipe and
> yours didnt match at all.
>
> You are correct. Start using it in what I call small squizzles of about 1/4
> ts to recipes. If a recipe doesnt seem tp adapt right, use 1 part soy
> sauce, 3 parts chicken broth and 'squizzle' until it tastes right to you.
> This will replicate those weaker versions relatively well and fit the
> american palate pretty close.
>
> You can utterly wreak a dish with too much of it. The right touch though is
> sublime. Tiparos alone is not a 'dipping sauce' normally though it may be
> added to other things to make it part of the component.

Thanks. I'll give it another shot then, but not in shot sized portions.
<g>
--
Peace! Om

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
*Only Irish *coffee provides in a single glass all four *essential food groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar *and fat. --Alex Levine

On 2010-05-17, Sqwertz > wrote:
> On Mon, 17 May 2010 08:55:43 -0400, James Silverton wrote:

>> Incorporated into various dishes, marinades and sauces in the correct
>> (small) quantities,*Thai* fish sauce adds a great flavor to various
>> dishes.
>
> Thai fish sauce is the same as Vietnamese. Most Thai brands are
> made in Vietnam (Phu Quoc to be exact). Golden Boy is an exception.

I don't know about "most Thai brands are made in Vietnam" -- I don't know
any Thais who use Vietnamese fish sauce! At home, we use Squid Brand which
is made in Thailand (http://www.squidbrand.com/squideng/).

- Rayong is known for its production of fish sauce
(http://www.rayongfishsauce.com/home.html).

- Tiparos is made in Thailand.

- Golden Boy is made in Thailand.

- Tra Chang is made in Thailand.

Fish sauce is made from anchovies, not from fish heads or fish nailed to a
board -- This is how they make fish sauce:

http://importfood.com/how_fish_sauce_is_made.html

Here's a Food Network video:

http://www.eatmedaily.com/2009/02/ma...-corwin-video/

--
Clay Irving >
(Never thought I'd be telling Malcolm and Ilya the same thing... :-)
-- Larry Wall in >

On 2010-05-19 21:52:55 -0700, Julian Vrieslander said:

> There are also variations of quality between brands. Cindy and I are
> currently using Three Crabs brand. It was recommended in several of her
> southeast Asian cookbooks.

I've had Vietnamese folks in supermarkets pipe up, unrequested, and
recommend Three Crabs when I've been mulling over the fish sauce. Twice.

On Sun, 23 May 2010 08:02:17 -0700, gtr wrote:

> On 2010-05-19 21:52:55 -0700, Julian Vrieslander said:
>
>> There are also variations of quality between brands. Cindy and I are
>> currently using Three Crabs brand. It was recommended in several of her
>> southeast Asian cookbooks.
>
> I've had Vietnamese folks in supermarkets pipe up, unrequested, and
> recommend Three Crabs when I've been mulling over the fish sauce. Twice.

don't trust them. they're still harboring resentment over winning the war.

your pal,
blake

On Fri, 21 May 2010 20:28:25 +0000 (UTC), Clay Irving wrote:

> On 2010-05-17, Sqwertz > wrote:
>> On Mon, 17 May 2010 08:55:43 -0400, James Silverton wrote:
>
>>> Incorporated into various dishes, marinades and sauces in the correct
>>> (small) quantities,*Thai* fish sauce adds a great flavor to various
>>> dishes.
>>
>> Thai fish sauce is the same as Vietnamese. Most Thai brands are
>> made in Vietnam (Phu Quoc to be exact). Golden Boy is an exception.
>
> I don't know about "most Thai brands are made in Vietnam" -- I don't know
> any Thais who use Vietnamese fish sauce! At home, we use Squid Brand which
> is made in Thailand (http://www.squidbrand.com/squideng/).

I don't know many Thai's but I've seen them being used at many Thai
restaurant in San Jose and Austin. I also think they're superior.
many Thai ingredients and sauces are made in Vietnam (somebody was
posting about their thai fish paste the other day, it was made in
Vietnam as well)

> - Rayong is known for its production of fish sauce
> (http://www.rayongfishsauce.com/home.html).
>
> - Tiparos is made in Thailand.
>
> - Golden Boy is made in Thailand.
>
> - Tra Chang is made in Thailand.

But all the good ones are made in Phu Quoc :-) And that's been an
accepted opinion amongst many for quite a while.

Now I'm hungry for some bo la lot with mam nem.

-sw

On Fri, 21 May 2010 16:05:17 -0500, jay wrote:

> You have made an excellent point! i.e. -sWartzO is a deep South Austin
> loose lipped bumpkin.. living in his empty pointed head.
>
> ahahahaha

Jay! It's not Christmas yet! To what do we owe the pleasure?

-sw

On Wed, 19 May 2010 17:58:20 -0400, cshenk wrote:

> "Bob Terwilliger" wrote
>> Om wrote:
>
>>>>>>> I've tried it a few times, and ruined more than one dish with it. :-(
>>>>>>> Fish sauce sucks... at least in my opinion. Tastes like fermented
>>>>>>> (rotten) fish. Must be an aquired taste.
>
>>>>>> Most recipes I see call for too much.
>
>> You make rice paper wrappers all the time; you really should try nuoc cham
>> as a dipping sauce with them. Here's a recipe:
>
>> 4-6 tablespoons fish sauce (see instructions)
>
> Bob, this is likely the confusion. There are many types of 'fish sauce'
> all labeled that when they try to put something in english on there. This
> recipe for example definately doesnt use Thailand Tiparos 'fish sauce' (a
> true Patis which I think is what Om has). A true 'patis' (Filipeno for
> this) is used in small 'squizzles' as I call it. Thats 1/8 or so TS for
> American tastes, 1/2 TS for asian in most recipes. The lighter versions may
> be used by the TB.

I would have used 2-3 TB is Bob's recipe with those other
ingredients. I would use a full cup of water with that much juice.

-sw

On Thu, 20 May 2010 20:12:54 -0400, cshenk wrote:

> If it helps any, OM checked and she has Tiparos. Recipes made for less
> fishy (watery) 'fish sauces' will not work for that.

A fish sauce that is too fishy is not preferred for dipping sauces,
only cooking. As a rule, the first pressing of the fish (yes, the
virgin pressing) is the best quality and is used as a table/dipping
sauce. Subsequent pressings of the fish are stronger and only to be
used for cooking. Squid and Tiparos are examples of cooking sauces.
But Tiparos has many inconsistent varieties - some even sold in
plastic bottles - which is a real no-no.

-sw

On Sun, 23 May 2010 15:48:39 -0500, Sqwertz >
wrote:

>Now I'm hungry for some bo la lot with mam nem.

Okay, what is it?

Christine

On Sun, 23 May 2010 15:10:44 -0600, Christine Dabney wrote:

> On Sun, 23 May 2010 15:48:39 -0500, Sqwertz >
> wrote:
>
>>Now I'm hungry for some bo la lot with mam nem.
>
> Okay, what is it?

Marinated sliced beef wrapped in ti, tea, perilla, grape, or la lot
leaves (preferred) - grilled and served with a table salad (mung
sprouts, cilantro, jalapeno, green lettuce leaves, basil), soaked
rice papers, and mam nem dipping sauce. The salad is used for the
wraps, not for shoveling into your face like an American "salad".

Mam nem are the whole fish fillets left over after the first
pressing of nouc mam. They look like mud. The dip of the same name
is mud mixed with pineapple, chiles, and rice vinegar (hot, sour,
sweet, salty - nobody does it better than the Vietnamese).

-sw

On Sun, 23 May 2010 17:05:25 -0500, Sqwertz >
wrote:


>Marinated sliced beef wrapped in ti, tea, perilla, grape, or la lot
>leaves (preferred) - grilled and served with a table salad (mung
>sprouts, cilantro, jalapeno, green lettuce leaves, basil), soaked
>rice papers, and mam nem dipping sauce. The salad is used for the
>wraps, not for shoveling into your face like an American "salad".
>
>Mam nem are the whole fish fillets left over after the first
>pressing of nouc mam. They look like mud. The dip of the same name
>is mud mixed with pineapple, chiles, and rice vinegar (hot, sour,
>sweet, salty - nobody does it better than the Vietnamese).
>
>-sw

Is this something you only get in a restaurant, or do you fix it
yourself?

Christine