Mark Thorson wrote:

> That's like a knife which has lost both its blade
> and its handle.

LOL! Yeah, I thought the double-speak was pretty good.

>> Comparing it to their regular Balsamic, it's half the calories (5) but
>> the same amount of carbs (2) per tablespoon.
>
> Huh? All of the calories in vinegar are carbs,
> either sugar or acetic acid. There's no significant
> amount of protein or fat in vinegar, so what's left?

Just comparing the two labels of the same brand. I did notice that the
dark vinegar had caramel added (for coloring it claimed).

*TJ's "regular" Balsamic Vinegar (in a jug)*
INGREDIENTS: Wine vinegar, concentrated grape must, caramel (color).
Contains natural sulfites.

*TJ'S "White" Balsamic Vinegar (tall, thin bottle)*
INGREDIENTS: White wine vinegar (contains sulfites) concentrated grape must.

Yes, the 2g carbs are sugars.

*TJ's Gold Quality Balsamic Vinegar (premium aged, in small bottle)*
INGREDIENTS: Wine vinegar, cooked grape must. Contains sulfites.
This one has 20 calories per tablespoon and 5g carbs, all sugars.

--Lin

"Lin" > wrote
>
> *TJ's "regular" Balsamic Vinegar (in a jug)*
> INGREDIENTS: Wine vinegar, concentrated grape must, caramel (color).
> Contains natural sulfites.
>
> *TJ'S "White" Balsamic Vinegar (tall, thin bottle)*
> INGREDIENTS: White wine vinegar (contains sulfites) concentrated grape
> must.

> *TJ's Gold Quality Balsamic Vinegar (premium aged, in small bottle)*
> INGREDIENTS: Wine vinegar, cooked grape must. Contains sulfites.

> --Lin

Right there, both are fakes. Real Balsamic vinegar is made from grape
pressings that have never fermented into wine. At best, it may be Trebbiano
grape wine vinegar, but they are marketing the stuff to unsuspecting people
that think they are getting something that does not even exist. The real
deal contains no caramel coloring either. Just a fraud to mark up the price
using the word "balsamic"

Ed Pawlowski wrote:

> Right there, both are fakes. Real Balsamic vinegar is made from grape
> pressings that have never fermented into wine. At best, it may be
> Trebbiano grape wine vinegar, but they are marketing the stuff to
> unsuspecting people that think they are getting something that does not
> even exist. The real deal contains no caramel coloring either. Just a
> fraud to mark up the price using the word "balsamic"

I'm sure Bob has plenty of the "real" in the cupboard. He's got some
realllllly old stuff for special occasions and recipes. A couple drops
'ill do ya. I was just pointing out what TJ's has out. Product of
Modena, Italy in any case. And I like it fine for "everyday" use. Tastes
okay to me, "fake" or not.

--Lin

In article >,
Lin > wrote:

> Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
> > Right there, both are fakes. Real Balsamic vinegar is made from grape
> > pressings that have never fermented into wine. At best, it may be
> > Trebbiano grape wine vinegar, but they are marketing the stuff to
> > unsuspecting people that think they are getting something that does not
> > even exist. The real deal contains no caramel coloring either. Just a
> > fraud to mark up the price using the word "balsamic"
>
> I'm sure Bob has plenty of the "real" in the cupboard. He's got some
> realllllly old stuff for special occasions and recipes. A couple drops
> 'ill do ya. I was just pointing out what TJ's has out. Product of
> Modena, Italy in any case. And I like it fine for "everyday" use. Tastes
> okay to me, "fake" or not.
>
> --Lin

Lin, ever tried combining Balsamic vinegar with soy sauce?
It is so very, very good. About 50/50. Kinda sweet and sour.
--
Peace! Om

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
"We're all adults here, except for those of us who aren't." --Blake Murphy

Omelet wrote:

> Lin, ever tried combining Balsamic vinegar with soy sauce?
> It is so very, very good. About 50/50. Kinda sweet and sour.

I can't say that I have. I'll give it a try sometime!

--Lin

In article >,
Lin > wrote:

> Omelet wrote:
>
> > Lin, ever tried combining Balsamic vinegar with soy sauce?
> > It is so very, very good. About 50/50. Kinda sweet and sour.
>
> I can't say that I have. I'll give it a try sometime!
>
> --Lin

Cheers! :-)
I don't know if you saw my sauce recipe I've been using lately for my
spring rolls (made with rice/tapioca wrappers). Rough proportions a

4 tbs. Balsamic Vinegar
4 tbs. Soy Sauce
2 tbs. yellow mustard
1 tbs. Oyster sauce
Light drizzle of dark sesame oil (roughly 1 tsp.)

It are really really good shtuff! ;-d

I keep my spring rolls light. Main filling is romaine or sprouts with a
little meat. I've also been playing with strips of canned green chilis
lately. No pasta, no rice. Maybe some egg, but rarely.
--
Peace! Om

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
"We're all adults here, except for those of us who aren't." --Blake Murphy

Omelet wrote:

> I don't know if you saw my sauce recipe I've been using lately for my
> spring rolls (made with rice/tapioca wrappers). Rough proportions a
>
> 4 tbs. Balsamic Vinegar
> 4 tbs. Soy Sauce
> 2 tbs. yellow mustard
> 1 tbs. Oyster sauce
> Light drizzle of dark sesame oil (roughly 1 tsp.)
>
> It are really really good shtuff! ;-d
>
> I keep my spring rolls light. Main filling is romaine or sprouts with a
> little meat. I've also been playing with strips of canned green chilis
> lately. No pasta, no rice. Maybe some egg, but rarely.

I read off and on. A little bit more the last few days but most of the
time I see the sheer bulk of posts and mark them as read.

Your recipe looks great! Out here "spring" rolls are deep fried, whereas
"summer" rolls are in the rice paper wrappers. We have an excellent
Vietnamese restaurant close by that does Summer rolls to die for with a
special peanut sauce. However, on their menu they refer to summer rolls
as just "rolls" ... Spring are classic deep fried and they have "spring"
in the menu name.

Bob has made me summer rolls before that were excellent. Now I'm craving
them!

--Lin (should head off to bed now)

Ed wrote:

> Real Balsamic vinegar is made from grape pressings that have never
> fermented into wine.

99% (and probably at least a couple nines after the decimal point) of what
is sold as balsamic vinegar is actually "de Modena," which is to say they
are made of wine vinegar which has been treated to (shabbily) imitate real
balsamic vinegar. It's a HUGE corruption of the system which takes advantage
of ignorant shoppers.

Genuine balsamic vinegar is a rare and precious commodity. I have two
bottles of the stuff; one is 50-year-old balsamico tradizionale (with the
consortium's seal of approval), the other is a 25-year-old vinegar which was
aged exclusively in cherrywood casks. (As traditional balsamic vinegar ages
and reduces in volume, it's moved to smaller and smaller casks. Most of the
time, each cask is made of a different type of wood. I don't remember the
exact woods used -- it's in a book I have at home -- but I do remember that
mulberry wood was the final one.)

Bob

"Bob Terwilliger" > wrote in message
...
> Ed wrote:
>
>> Real Balsamic vinegar is made from grape pressings that have never
>> fermented into wine.
>
> 99% (and probably at least a couple nines after the decimal point) of what
> is sold as balsamic vinegar is actually "de Modena," which is to say they
> are made of wine vinegar which has been treated to (shabbily) imitate real
> balsamic vinegar. It's a HUGE corruption of the system which takes
> advantage of ignorant shoppers.
>
> Genuine balsamic vinegar is a rare and precious commodity. I have two
> bottles of the stuff; one is 50-year-old balsamico tradizionale (with the
> consortium's seal of approval), the other is a 25-year-old vinegar which
> was aged exclusively in cherrywood casks.

I have a bottle of the 50 year old. I was in a store in Providence on
Friday and they had some 75 year old that was selling for $250.

The "balsamic" name has been *******ized and overused both in the US and in
Modena for the sake of money that it has become meaningless. Thee are some
vinegars that are young and have a similar background that carry the
"balsamic" name and are actually pretty good for what they are. But don't
ship me a Fiat with a Lamborghini emblem on it and expect me to pay a
premium for it.

Bob Terwilliger wrote:
> Ed wrote:
>
>> Real Balsamic vinegar is made from grape pressings that have never
>> fermented into wine.
>
> 99% (and probably at least a couple nines after the decimal point) of
> what is sold as balsamic vinegar is actually "de Modena," which is to
> say they are made of wine vinegar which has been treated to (shabbily)
> imitate real balsamic vinegar. It's a HUGE corruption of the system
> which takes advantage of ignorant shoppers.
>
> Genuine balsamic vinegar is a rare and precious commodity. I have two
> bottles of the stuff; one is 50-year-old balsamico tradizionale (with
> the consortium's seal of approval), the other is a 25-year-old vinegar
> which was aged exclusively in cherrywood casks. (As traditional balsamic
> vinegar ages and reduces in volume, it's moved to smaller and smaller
> casks. Most of the time, each cask is made of a different type of wood.
> I don't remember the exact woods used -- it's in a book I have at home
> -- but I do remember that mulberry wood was the final one.)
>
> Bob


Really? I always assumed "balsamic" was aged in some kind of
coniferous wood to get that piney flavor.

gloria p

"gloria.p" > wrote
>> Genuine balsamic vinegar is a rare and precious commodity. I have two
>> bottles of the stuff; one is 50-year-old balsamico tradizionale (with the
>> consortium's seal of approval), the other is a 25-year-old vinegar which
>> was aged exclusively in cherrywood casks. (As traditional balsamic
>> vinegar ages and reduces in volume, it's moved to smaller and smaller
>> casks. Most of the time, each cask is made of a different type of wood. I
>> don't remember the exact woods used -- it's in a book I have at home --
>> but I do remember that mulberry wood was the final one.)
>>
>> Bob
>
>
> Really? I always assumed "balsamic" was aged in some kind of
> coniferous wood to get that piney flavor.
>
> gloria p

That could be Christmas Vinegar.

From Wikipedia:
True balsamic vinegar is made from a reduction of pressed Trebbiano and
Lambrusco grapes. The resulting thick syrup, called mosto cotto in Italian,
is subsequently aged for a minimum of 12 years in a battery of seven barrels
of successively smaller sizes. The casks are made of different woods like
chestnut, acacia, cherry, oak, mulberry, ash, and, in the past, juniper.
True balsamic vinegar is rich, glossy, deep brown in color and has a complex
flavour that balances the natural sweet and sour elements of the cooked
grape juice with hints of wood from the casks.

Bob Terwilliger wrote:

> 99% (and probably at least a couple nines after the decimal point) of
> what is sold as balsamic vinegar is actually "de Modena," which is to
> say they are made of wine vinegar which has been treated to
> (shabbily) imitate real balsamic vinegar. It's a HUGE corruption of
> the system which takes advantage of ignorant shoppers.

Exactly. In Modena The real deal is "aceto balsamico tradizionale di Modena"
and in Reggio Emilia it is "aceto balsamico tradizionale di reggio emilia".
Then there is the cheap version, made with caramel and thickeners: in Modena
it's "aceto balsamico", in Reggio Emilia it is "condimento balsamico". In
Reggio Emilia we use the word "condiment" just to avoid confusing shoppers.
In Modena they mark it all as "aceto balsamico" and that's really lame.
--
Vilco
Don't think pink: drink rosè

ViLco wrote on Tue, 30 Mar 2010 17:13:32 +0200:

>> 99% (and probably at least a couple nines after the decimal
>> point) of what is sold as balsamic vinegar is actually "de
>> Modena," which is to say they are made of wine vinegar which has been
>> treated to (shabbily) imitate real balsamic vinegar.
>> It's a HUGE corruption of the system which takes advantage of
>> ignorant shoppers.

>quoting
Exactly. In Modena The real deal is "aceto balsamico tradizionale di
Modena"
and in Reggio Emilia it is "aceto balsamico tradizionale di reggio
emilia".
Then there is the cheap version, made with caramel and thickeners: in
Modena
it's "aceto balsamico", in Reggio Emilia it is "condimento balsamico".
In
Reggio Emilia we use the word "condiment" just to avoid confusing
shoppers.
In Modena they mark it all as "aceto balsamico" and that's really lame.
> end quote

The Washington Post is much exercised about "fake" imported foods this
morning. I wonder if anyone can recommend *real* balsamic vinegar that
can be bought in the US? I also wonder how much, say 250cc, should cost?

--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

"James Silverton" > wrote
>>quoting
> Exactly. In Modena The real deal is "aceto balsamico tradizionale di
> Modena"
> and in Reggio Emilia it is "aceto balsamico tradizionale di reggio
> emilia".
> Then there is the cheap version, made with caramel and thickeners: in
> Modena
> it's "aceto balsamico", in Reggio Emilia it is "condimento balsamico". In
> Reggio Emilia we use the word "condiment" just to avoid confusing
> shoppers.
> In Modena they mark it all as "aceto balsamico" and that's really lame.
>> end quote
>
> The Washington Post is much exercised about "fake" imported foods this
> morning. I wonder if anyone can recommend *real* balsamic vinegar that
> can be bought in the US? I also wonder how much, say 250cc, should cost?
>
> --
>
> James Silverton
> Potomac, Maryland
>
> Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

I go to this place every month or two, but there are others, of course.
They have good imported meats and cheeses.

The tradizionale come sin 100 gram bottles (3.4 oz)
A 50 year old bottle 3.4 oz is $145. The 75 year is $195
http://tonyscolonial.com/tonysonline...19420541192405
What I have was much less, but I bought it in Italy so the airfare minimizes
the savings.

There are some others, like the Manicardi that are a good condiment at much
lower price, then there is some real junk for a few dollars. You'd do
better mixing sugar and wine vinegar.

Ed wrote on Tue, 30 Mar 2010 17:51:22 -0400:


> "James Silverton" > wrote
>>> quoting
>> Exactly. In Modena The real deal is "aceto balsamico
>> tradizionale di Modena" and in Reggio Emilia it is "aceto
>> balsamico tradizionale di reggio emilia". Then there is the
>> cheap version, made with caramel and thickeners: in Modena it's
>> "aceto balsamico", in Reggio Emilia it is "condimento balsamico". In
>> Reggio Emilia we use the word "condiment" just to avoid
>> confusing shoppers. In Modena they mark it all as "aceto
>> balsamico" and that's really lame.
>>> end quote
>>
>> The Washington Post is much exercised about "fake" imported
>> foods this morning. I wonder if anyone can recommend *real* balsamic
>> vinegar that can be bought in the US? I also wonder how much, say
>> 250cc, should cost?
>>
>> --
>>
>> James Silverton
>> Potomac, Maryland
>>
>> Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

> I go to this place every month or two, but there are others,
> of course. They have good imported meats and cheeses.

> The tradizionale come sin 100 gram bottles (3.4 oz)
> A 50 year old bottle 3.4 oz is $145. The 75 year is $195
> http://tonyscolonial.com/tonysonline...19420541192405
> What I have was much less, but I bought it in Italy so the
> airfare minimizes the savings.

$10 to $20 for 250 ml I might manage but I like to buy things in person
rather than online. Permit me to doubt that I could tell the difference
with 100 year old vinegar. Older wines are something else but vinegar is
a *condiment*.

--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not