Greetings, all.

I had a strange experience yesterday.

I had a large plastic bottle about half full of low-sodium tomato juice
in the refrigerator that had been there for perhaps a month. It was
leftover from a large can that was perhaps a month past its "use by"
date at the time. I used it for something then and it was fine.

Yesterday, I opened the bottle, fortunately over the sink. It was like
opening a shaken soda bottle, but in slow motion. The juice came slowly
roiling up the bottle then overflowed it, probably tripling its volume
over the course of 10 seconds, then "melted" away down the drain.

It smelled OK, but I wasn't about to taste/drink it.

What happened here? Fermented? Does that happen with tomato juice?
Perhaps because it was a low-sodium version where there was less salt to
preserve it? Maybe someone snuck some vinegar and soda into the bottle
when I wasn't looking? :-)

--
Mr. Civility

"Mr. Civility" > wrote in message
...
> Greetings, all.
>
> I had a strange experience yesterday.
>
> I had a large plastic bottle about half full of low-sodium tomato juice
> in the refrigerator that had been there for perhaps a month. It was
> leftover from a large can that was perhaps a month past its "use by"
> date at the time. I used it for something then and it was fine.
>
> Yesterday, I opened the bottle, fortunately over the sink. It was like
> opening a shaken soda bottle, but in slow motion. The juice came slowly
> roiling up the bottle then overflowed it, probably tripling its volume
> over the course of 10 seconds, then "melted" away down the drain.
>
> It smelled OK, but I wasn't about to taste/drink it.
>
> What happened here? Fermented? Does that happen with tomato juice?
> Perhaps because it was a low-sodium version where there was less salt to
> preserve it? Maybe someone snuck some vinegar and soda into the bottle
> when I wasn't looking? :-)
>

I think it is a restless tomato thing. I had exactly the same thing
happen to me with a bottle of tomato ketchup that apparently had
become antsy in the bottle. Except this was at a lunch counter
during a business day and it bubbled out rather quickly over my
clothing. Bad ketchup, bad.

pavane

"Mr. Civility" > wrote in message
...
> Greetings, all.
>
> I had a strange experience yesterday.
>
> I had a large plastic bottle about half full of low-sodium tomato juice
> in the refrigerator that had been there for perhaps a month. It was
> leftover from a large can that was perhaps a month past its "use by"
> date at the time. I used it for something then and it was fine.
>
> Yesterday, I opened the bottle, fortunately over the sink. It was like
> opening a shaken soda bottle, but in slow motion. The juice came slowly
> roiling up the bottle then overflowed it, probably tripling its volume
> over the course of 10 seconds, then "melted" away down the drain.
>
> It smelled OK, but I wasn't about to taste/drink it.
>
> What happened here? Fermented? Does that happen with tomato juice?
> Perhaps because it was a low-sodium version where there was less salt to
> preserve it? Maybe someone snuck some vinegar and soda into the bottle
> when I wasn't looking? :-)
>

I think it is a restless tomato thing. I had exactly the same thing
happen to me with a bottle of tomato ketchup that apparently had
become antsy in the bottle. Except this was at a lunch counter
during a business day and it bubbled out rather quickly over my
clothing. Bad ketchup, bad.

pavane

In article >, "pavane" > wrote:
>
>"Mr. Civility" > wrote in message
...
>> Greetings, all. I had a strange experience yesterday.
>>
>> I had a large plastic bottle about half full of low-sodium tomato juice
>> in the refrigerator that had been there for perhaps a month. It was
>> leftover from a large can that was perhaps a month past its "use by"
>> date at the time. I used it for something then and it was fine.
>>
>> Yesterday, I opened the bottle, fortunately over the sink. It was like
>> opening a shaken soda bottle, but in slow motion. The juice came slowly
>> roiling up the bottle then overflowed it, probably tripling its volume
>> over the course of 10 seconds, then "melted" away down the drain.
>>
>> It smelled OK, but I wasn't about to taste/drink it.
>>
>> What happened here? Fermented? Does that happen with tomato juice?
>> Perhaps because it was a low-sodium version where there was less salt to
>> preserve it? Maybe someone snuck some vinegar and soda into the bottle
>> when I wasn't looking? :-)
>
>I think it is a restless tomato thing. I had exactly the same thing
>happen to me with a bottle of tomato ketchup that apparently had
>become antsy in the bottle. Except this was at a lunch counter
>during a business day and it bubbled out rather quickly over my
>clothing. Bad ketchup, bad.

Years ago I came home one day to find a can of tomato paste had
exploded in the kitchen cupboard. Concerned that it might have been
from a comtaminated batch, I sent the residue off for testing.
Subsequently, I heard back from the company that the can was actually
rather old (just part of the friendly service from the local corner
store ;-) so it was to be expected that this might happen due to gas
production (allegedly H2 IIRC) from the reaction between the acidic
juice and the can plating over a period of time.

To assuage my concern and inconvenience, the manufacturer arranged for
me to receive a free *carton* of the product through the local
supermarket. Seeing no logic in putting the whole house at risk of
demolition, I donated the lot to Meals On Wheels.

Cheers, Phred.

--
LID

In article >, "pavane" > wrote:
>
>"Mr. Civility" > wrote in message
...
>> Greetings, all. I had a strange experience yesterday.
>>
>> I had a large plastic bottle about half full of low-sodium tomato juice
>> in the refrigerator that had been there for perhaps a month. It was
>> leftover from a large can that was perhaps a month past its "use by"
>> date at the time. I used it for something then and it was fine.
>>
>> Yesterday, I opened the bottle, fortunately over the sink. It was like
>> opening a shaken soda bottle, but in slow motion. The juice came slowly
>> roiling up the bottle then overflowed it, probably tripling its volume
>> over the course of 10 seconds, then "melted" away down the drain.
>>
>> It smelled OK, but I wasn't about to taste/drink it.
>>
>> What happened here? Fermented? Does that happen with tomato juice?
>> Perhaps because it was a low-sodium version where there was less salt to
>> preserve it? Maybe someone snuck some vinegar and soda into the bottle
>> when I wasn't looking? :-)
>
>I think it is a restless tomato thing. I had exactly the same thing
>happen to me with a bottle of tomato ketchup that apparently had
>become antsy in the bottle. Except this was at a lunch counter
>during a business day and it bubbled out rather quickly over my
>clothing. Bad ketchup, bad.

Years ago I came home one day to find a can of tomato paste had
exploded in the kitchen cupboard. Concerned that it might have been
from a comtaminated batch, I sent the residue off for testing.
Subsequently, I heard back from the company that the can was actually
rather old (just part of the friendly service from the local corner
store ;-) so it was to be expected that this might happen due to gas
production (allegedly H2 IIRC) from the reaction between the acidic
juice and the can plating over a period of time.

To assuage my concern and inconvenience, the manufacturer arranged for
me to receive a free *carton* of the product through the local
supermarket. Seeing no logic in putting the whole house at risk of
demolition, I donated the lot to Meals On Wheels.

Cheers, Phred.

--
LID

Phred wrote:

> Years ago I came home one day to find a can of tomato paste had
> exploded in the kitchen cupboard. Concerned that it might have been
> from a comtaminated batch, I sent the residue off for testing.
> Subsequently, I heard back from the company that the can was actually
> rather old (just part of the friendly service from the local corner
> store ;-) so it was to be expected that this might happen due to gas
> production (allegedly H2 IIRC) from the reaction between the acidic
> juice and the can plating over a period of time.


Interesting. This might explain something I stopped wondering about a
long time ago. I opened a can of tomato paste, and the paste inside did
a little squirt where the can opener first pierced the can. It wasn't a
full explosion, just a bit of a pop. I decided that something must be
wrong and bought a new can. Not a big deal except that I didn't drive
at the time so the 5 block walk to the supermarket was inconvenient.
I've wondered if I was being overly fussy or if the paste was fine to
eat or if I was throwing away strong poison with which I could carry out
the perfect murder.

--Lia

Phred wrote:

> Years ago I came home one day to find a can of tomato paste had
> exploded in the kitchen cupboard. Concerned that it might have been
> from a comtaminated batch, I sent the residue off for testing.
> Subsequently, I heard back from the company that the can was actually
> rather old (just part of the friendly service from the local corner
> store ;-) so it was to be expected that this might happen due to gas
> production (allegedly H2 IIRC) from the reaction between the acidic
> juice and the can plating over a period of time.


Interesting. This might explain something I stopped wondering about a
long time ago. I opened a can of tomato paste, and the paste inside did
a little squirt where the can opener first pierced the can. It wasn't a
full explosion, just a bit of a pop. I decided that something must be
wrong and bought a new can. Not a big deal except that I didn't drive
at the time so the 5 block walk to the supermarket was inconvenient.
I've wondered if I was being overly fussy or if the paste was fine to
eat or if I was throwing away strong poison with which I could carry out
the perfect murder.

--Lia

On 2004-09-02, Julia Altshuler > wrote:

> full explosion, just a bit of a pop. I decided that something must be
> wrong and bought a new can.

You did the right thing. Canned tomato anything is a potential source of
botulism. Any bulged canned or noticeable pressure when opening one is a
bad sign and should be discarded.

nb

On 2004-09-02, Julia Altshuler > wrote:

> full explosion, just a bit of a pop. I decided that something must be
> wrong and bought a new can.

You did the right thing. Canned tomato anything is a potential source of
botulism. Any bulged canned or noticeable pressure when opening one is a
bad sign and should be discarded.

nb

On 2004-09-02, Julia Altshuler > wrote:

> full explosion, just a bit of a pop. I decided that something must be
> wrong and bought a new can.

You did the right thing. Canned tomato anything is a potential source of
botulism. Any bulged canned or noticeable pressure when opening one is a
bad sign and should be discarded.

nb

notbob wrote:
> On 2004-09-02, Julia Altshuler > wrote:
>
>
>>full explosion, just a bit of a pop. I decided that something must be
>>wrong and bought a new can.
>
>
> You did the right thing. Canned tomato anything is a potential source of
> botulism. Any bulged canned or noticeable pressure when opening one is a
> bad sign and should be discarded.


Thanks. Nice to know. I've so often wondered if I'm foolishly
over-cautious.

--Lia

notbob wrote:
> On 2004-09-02, Julia Altshuler > wrote:
>
>
>>full explosion, just a bit of a pop. I decided that something must be
>>wrong and bought a new can.
>
>
> You did the right thing. Canned tomato anything is a potential source of
> botulism. Any bulged canned or noticeable pressure when opening one is a
> bad sign and should be discarded.


Thanks. Nice to know. I've so often wondered if I'm foolishly
over-cautious.

--Lia

Julia Altshuler wrote:
>
> notbob wrote:

> > You did the right thing. Canned tomato anything is a potential source of
> > botulism. Any bulged canned or noticeable pressure when opening one is a
> > bad sign and should be discarded.
>
> Thanks. Nice to know. I've so often wondered if I'm foolishly
> over-cautious.

Why play around. Most canned goods are cheap as dirt. I am
overly cautious, I think, but I've loosened up on that subject
over the years. But, no, tomato whatever exploding or expanding
out of the can? Not this chick.

nancy

Julia Altshuler wrote:
>
> notbob wrote:

> > You did the right thing. Canned tomato anything is a potential source of
> > botulism. Any bulged canned or noticeable pressure when opening one is a
> > bad sign and should be discarded.
>
> Thanks. Nice to know. I've so often wondered if I'm foolishly
> over-cautious.

Why play around. Most canned goods are cheap as dirt. I am
overly cautious, I think, but I've loosened up on that subject
over the years. But, no, tomato whatever exploding or expanding
out of the can? Not this chick.

nancy

notbob wrote:
> On 2004-09-02, Julia Altshuler > wrote:
>
>
>>full explosion, just a bit of a pop. I decided that something must be
>>wrong and bought a new can.
>
>
> You did the right thing. Canned tomato anything is a potential source of
> botulism. Any bulged canned or noticeable pressure when opening one is a
> bad sign and should be discarded.
>
> nb


I'm curious why you think canned tomatoes are a source of botulism.
Tomatoes are acid (especially the commercial packing varieties), plus
they always have a little citric acid added. There's very little risk
of botulism.

I agree that swollen or bulged cans are a bad sign.

Bob

notbob wrote:
> On 2004-09-02, Julia Altshuler > wrote:
>
>
>>full explosion, just a bit of a pop. I decided that something must be
>>wrong and bought a new can.
>
>
> You did the right thing. Canned tomato anything is a potential source of
> botulism. Any bulged canned or noticeable pressure when opening one is a
> bad sign and should be discarded.
>
> nb


I'm curious why you think canned tomatoes are a source of botulism.
Tomatoes are acid (especially the commercial packing varieties), plus
they always have a little citric acid added. There's very little risk
of botulism.

I agree that swollen or bulged cans are a bad sign.

Bob

On 2004-09-03, zxcvbob > wrote:

> I'm curious why you think canned tomatoes are a source of botulism.
> Tomatoes are acid....

"Molds can grow on the surface of improperly processed tomato products and
may eventually reduce the acidity to a point where botulism-producing spores
can grow and produce a deadly toxin."

http://www.ext.colostate.edu/pubs/foodnut/09341.html

I've personally tossed at least 3 bulging tomato products over the years.
One, a small can of Contadina tomato paste, was so bulged both lid ends were
domed shaped and it looked like it was ready to blow! There's always the
possibility it was something other than botulism, but I darn sure wasn't
going to find out.

nb

On 2004-09-03, zxcvbob > wrote:

> I'm curious why you think canned tomatoes are a source of botulism.
> Tomatoes are acid....

"Molds can grow on the surface of improperly processed tomato products and
may eventually reduce the acidity to a point where botulism-producing spores
can grow and produce a deadly toxin."

http://www.ext.colostate.edu/pubs/foodnut/09341.html

I've personally tossed at least 3 bulging tomato products over the years.
One, a small can of Contadina tomato paste, was so bulged both lid ends were
domed shaped and it looked like it was ready to blow! There's always the
possibility it was something other than botulism, but I darn sure wasn't
going to find out.

nb

On 2004-09-03, zxcvbob > wrote:

> I'm curious why you think canned tomatoes are a source of botulism.
> Tomatoes are acid....

"Molds can grow on the surface of improperly processed tomato products and
may eventually reduce the acidity to a point where botulism-producing spores
can grow and produce a deadly toxin."

http://www.ext.colostate.edu/pubs/foodnut/09341.html

I've personally tossed at least 3 bulging tomato products over the years.
One, a small can of Contadina tomato paste, was so bulged both lid ends were
domed shaped and it looked like it was ready to blow! There's always the
possibility it was something other than botulism, but I darn sure wasn't
going to find out.

nb