Hi all,

When I'm home in NY, I frequent Ben's Kosher Deli (one in L.I and one in
Manhattan) ... they serve two kinds of complimentary pickles when you sit at
your table. One is crunchy and brighter green; the other is a more muddy
green and very sour. I want to make the crunchy, brighter green kind - not
that sour and really fresh tasting. Have you eaten there and know what
they're called? I am guessing this is a half-sour pickle but before I invest
my pound of pickles in a recipe, I just want to make sure. If someone has a
family recipe, I'd love to hear that as well.

Thanks!
Mia

Mia wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> When I'm home in NY, I frequent Ben's Kosher Deli (one in L.I and one in
> Manhattan) ... they serve two kinds of complimentary pickles when you sit at
> your table. One is crunchy and brighter green; the other is a more muddy
> green and very sour. I want to make the crunchy, brighter green kind - not
> that sour and really fresh tasting. Have you eaten there and know what
> they're called? I am guessing this is a half-sour pickle but before I invest
> my pound of pickles in a recipe, I just want to make sure. If someone has a
> family recipe, I'd love to hear that as well.

I would maim someone for a good half sour pickle. You can find them
in the refrigerated section of your store, but I've never been
impressed. Maybe you have a pickle place near you? They are around,
but I don't know of one near me. Darn it.

nancy

"Nancy Young" > wrote in message
...
> Mia wrote:
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > When I'm home in NY, I frequent Ben's Kosher Deli (one in L.I and one in
> > Manhattan) ... they serve two kinds of complimentary pickles when you
sit at
> > your table. One is crunchy and brighter green; the other is a more muddy
> > green and very sour. I want to make the crunchy, brighter green kind -
not
> > that sour and really fresh tasting. Have you eaten there and know what
> > they're called? I am guessing this is a half-sour pickle but before I
invest
> > my pound of pickles in a recipe, I just want to make sure. If someone
has a
> > family recipe, I'd love to hear that as well.
>
> I would maim someone for a good half sour pickle. You can find them
> in the refrigerated section of your store, but I've never been
> impressed. Maybe you have a pickle place near you? They are around,
> but I don't know of one near me. Darn it.
>
> nancy

Hi nancy -- I was mostly looking for a recipe to make my own and wasn't sure
if I should be looking for a half-sour recipe. I guess I am!
Thanks,
Mia

"Nancy Young" > wrote in message
...
> Mia wrote:
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > When I'm home in NY, I frequent Ben's Kosher Deli (one in L.I and one in
> > Manhattan) ... they serve two kinds of complimentary pickles when you
sit at
> > your table. One is crunchy and brighter green; the other is a more muddy
> > green and very sour. I want to make the crunchy, brighter green kind -
not
> > that sour and really fresh tasting. Have you eaten there and know what
> > they're called? I am guessing this is a half-sour pickle but before I
invest
> > my pound of pickles in a recipe, I just want to make sure. If someone
has a
> > family recipe, I'd love to hear that as well.
>
> I would maim someone for a good half sour pickle. You can find them
> in the refrigerated section of your store, but I've never been
> impressed. Maybe you have a pickle place near you? They are around,
> but I don't know of one near me. Darn it.
>
> nancy

Hi nancy -- I was mostly looking for a recipe to make my own and wasn't sure
if I should be looking for a half-sour recipe. I guess I am!
Thanks,
Mia

"Mia" > wrote in message
...
> Hi all,
>
> When I'm home in NY, I frequent Ben's Kosher Deli (one in L.I and one in
> Manhattan) ... they serve two kinds of complimentary pickles when you sit
at
> your table. One is crunchy and brighter green; the other is a more muddy
> green and very sour. I want to make the crunchy, brighter green kind - not
> that sour and really fresh tasting. Have you eaten there and know what
> they're called? I am guessing this is a half-sour pickle but before I
invest
> my pound of pickles in a recipe, I just want to make sure. If someone has
a
> family recipe, I'd love to hear that as well.
>
> Thanks!
> Mia
>
>

I have had excellent results with this recipe. Cucumber quality is
important, of course. You can adjust the salt to your taste.

1/4 to 1/3c Morton kosher salt
1 c boiling water

Dissolve the salt in the water and let cool.

2 lb small whole cukes, preferably pickling cukes, washed.
5 or more cloves garlic, smashed.

1 large bunch fresh dill preferably with flowers
or
2 TB dried dill and 1 tsp dill seeds

1 TB whole coriander sends (optional)

Put cukes and spices in a large clean jar. Add brine and anough cold water
to cover. Weight down with a plastic bag filled with water to ensure all
cukes are submerged. Let sit at room temp for at least 24 hours and start
sampling. When they are to your liking move the jar to the fridge. They will
keep a week or so.


--
Peter Aitken

Remove the crap from my email address before using.

"Peter Aitken" > wrote in message
.com...
> "Mia" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Hi all,
> >
> > When I'm home in NY, I frequent Ben's Kosher Deli (one in L.I and one in
> > Manhattan) ... they serve two kinds of complimentary pickles when you
sit
> at
> > your table. One is crunchy and brighter green; the other is a more muddy
> > green and very sour. I want to make the crunchy, brighter green kind -
not
> > that sour and really fresh tasting. Have you eaten there and know what
> > they're called? I am guessing this is a half-sour pickle but before I
> invest
> > my pound of pickles in a recipe, I just want to make sure. If someone
has
> a
> > family recipe, I'd love to hear that as well.
> >
> > Thanks!
> > Mia
> >
> >
>
> I have had excellent results with this recipe. Cucumber quality is
> important, of course. You can adjust the salt to your taste.
>
> 1/4 to 1/3c Morton kosher salt
> 1 c boiling water
>
> Dissolve the salt in the water and let cool.
>
> 2 lb small whole cukes, preferably pickling cukes, washed.
> 5 or more cloves garlic, smashed.
>
> 1 large bunch fresh dill preferably with flowers
> or
> 2 TB dried dill and 1 tsp dill seeds
>
> 1 TB whole coriander sends (optional)
>
> Put cukes and spices in a large clean jar. Add brine and anough cold water
> to cover. Weight down with a plastic bag filled with water to ensure all
> cukes are submerged. Let sit at room temp for at least 24 hours and start
> sampling. When they are to your liking move the jar to the fridge. They
will
> keep a week or so.
>
>
> --
> Peter Aitken
>
> Remove the crap from my email address before using.
>
>

Hi Peter,

This recipe sounds great. Some recipes I've found have you pour boiling
water over the cukes and I think those pickles at Ben's don't taste cooked
at all. I'm heading to the kitchen to try your recipe right now!

Mia

"Mia" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Hi Peter,
>
> This recipe sounds great. Some recipes I've found have you pour boiling
> water over the cukes and I think those pickles at Ben's don't taste cooked
> at all. I'm heading to the kitchen to try your recipe right now!
>
> Mia
>
>

Good luck! If it doesn't come out right try again - it took me a couple of
tries to get the salt just right for my taste.
--
Peter Aitken

Remove the crap from my email address before using.

"Peter Aitken" > wrote in message
.com...
> "Mia" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> >
> > Hi Peter,
> >
> > This recipe sounds great. Some recipes I've found have you pour boiling
> > water over the cukes and I think those pickles at Ben's don't taste
cooked
> > at all. I'm heading to the kitchen to try your recipe right now!
> >
> > Mia
> >
> >
>
> Good luck! If it doesn't come out right try again - it took me a couple of
> tries to get the salt just right for my taste.
> --
> Peter Aitken
>
> Remove the crap from my email address before using.

I replied to Peter but wanted to follow up with the group -- his recipe
worked really well. He's right about experimenting with the amount of
salt -- at first, mine were a bit too salty. But after adjusting the liquid
in the jar and putting them in the fridge, the saltiness mellowed. The
pickles are garlicky, crunchy, fresh -- exactly like the Ben's Deli (on L.I)
pickles. This was a very quick (10 mins prep, 24 hour marinating time) and
easy way to get those half-sours you've been looking for (Nancy!).

Thanks Peter --

Mia



>
>

"Peter Aitken" > wrote in message
.com...
> "Mia" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> >
> > Hi Peter,
> >
> > This recipe sounds great. Some recipes I've found have you pour boiling
> > water over the cukes and I think those pickles at Ben's don't taste
cooked
> > at all. I'm heading to the kitchen to try your recipe right now!
> >
> > Mia
> >
> >
>
> Good luck! If it doesn't come out right try again - it took me a couple of
> tries to get the salt just right for my taste.
> --
> Peter Aitken
>
> Remove the crap from my email address before using.

I replied to Peter but wanted to follow up with the group -- his recipe
worked really well. He's right about experimenting with the amount of
salt -- at first, mine were a bit too salty. But after adjusting the liquid
in the jar and putting them in the fridge, the saltiness mellowed. The
pickles are garlicky, crunchy, fresh -- exactly like the Ben's Deli (on L.I)
pickles. This was a very quick (10 mins prep, 24 hour marinating time) and
easy way to get those half-sours you've been looking for (Nancy!).

Thanks Peter --

Mia



>
>

"Mia" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Hi Peter,
>
> This recipe sounds great. Some recipes I've found have you pour boiling
> water over the cukes and I think those pickles at Ben's don't taste cooked
> at all. I'm heading to the kitchen to try your recipe right now!
>
> Mia
>
>

Good luck! If it doesn't come out right try again - it took me a couple of
tries to get the salt just right for my taste.
--
Peter Aitken

Remove the crap from my email address before using.

"Peter Aitken" > wrote in message
.com...
> "Mia" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Hi all,
> >
> > When I'm home in NY, I frequent Ben's Kosher Deli (one in L.I and one in
> > Manhattan) ... they serve two kinds of complimentary pickles when you
sit
> at
> > your table. One is crunchy and brighter green; the other is a more muddy
> > green and very sour. I want to make the crunchy, brighter green kind -
not
> > that sour and really fresh tasting. Have you eaten there and know what
> > they're called? I am guessing this is a half-sour pickle but before I
> invest
> > my pound of pickles in a recipe, I just want to make sure. If someone
has
> a
> > family recipe, I'd love to hear that as well.
> >
> > Thanks!
> > Mia
> >
> >
>
> I have had excellent results with this recipe. Cucumber quality is
> important, of course. You can adjust the salt to your taste.
>
> 1/4 to 1/3c Morton kosher salt
> 1 c boiling water
>
> Dissolve the salt in the water and let cool.
>
> 2 lb small whole cukes, preferably pickling cukes, washed.
> 5 or more cloves garlic, smashed.
>
> 1 large bunch fresh dill preferably with flowers
> or
> 2 TB dried dill and 1 tsp dill seeds
>
> 1 TB whole coriander sends (optional)
>
> Put cukes and spices in a large clean jar. Add brine and anough cold water
> to cover. Weight down with a plastic bag filled with water to ensure all
> cukes are submerged. Let sit at room temp for at least 24 hours and start
> sampling. When they are to your liking move the jar to the fridge. They
will
> keep a week or so.
>
>
> --
> Peter Aitken
>
> Remove the crap from my email address before using.
>
>

Hi Peter,

This recipe sounds great. Some recipes I've found have you pour boiling
water over the cukes and I think those pickles at Ben's don't taste cooked
at all. I'm heading to the kitchen to try your recipe right now!

Mia

"Mia" > wrote in message
...
> Hi all,
>
> When I'm home in NY, I frequent Ben's Kosher Deli (one in L.I and one in
> Manhattan) ... they serve two kinds of complimentary pickles when you sit
at
> your table. One is crunchy and brighter green; the other is a more muddy
> green and very sour. I want to make the crunchy, brighter green kind - not
> that sour and really fresh tasting. Have you eaten there and know what
> they're called? I am guessing this is a half-sour pickle but before I
invest
> my pound of pickles in a recipe, I just want to make sure. If someone has
a
> family recipe, I'd love to hear that as well.
>
> Thanks!
> Mia
>
>

Also ask this question on rec.food.preserving. They also have a faq at :
http://www.gbronline.com/jacke/rfpfaq/rfpFAQ.htm

Look at section D. Pickling (Part 4) for pickle questions.


From that section :

D.4.5 A real New York deli Pickle?
From: Kurt Rieder (riederNOSPAMet.net)


a 5 gal crock layer the following among the cukes: 3 1/3 oz sugar, 3/4 lb
fresh dill, 3/4 oz allspice, 3/8 oz mustard seed, 3/8 oz black pepper corns,
1/8 oz bay leaf, 1 head garlic...broken into cloves.

Put the board on top and the rock on top of the board. Fill the crock with
8% cool salt brine. An 8% brine will contain 3/4 lb salt per gallon brine.
Store at 60 - 70 deg F. That's cooler than ambient this time of year in most
places. Consider the basement or some other cool place. Every few days use a
paper towel or cloth to clean any scum from the surface.

Sample a pickle when you have the urge... after a few days. At first they
will be half sours. A bit longer, 2-3 weeks, and they will become full
sours. Both are often sold in the deli. After they are done, lower the
temperature if you can but don't allow to freeze. Most pickles, even sweet
gherkins, that you buy in the store are made this way. They keep the brine
and recover lactic acid from it. The brined cukes are bottled and covered
with cheaper vinegar... and sugar, if sweet ones are wanted. This is why a
deli pickle has it over all others.

Dean G.

Mia > wrote:

> One is crunchy and brighter green; the other is a more muddy
> green and very sour.

Here is a recipe from The 2nd Ave Deli Cookbook. The pickles served at
the Deli are not the very best I have ever tasted but still very good.

Pickles

you can pickle firm green tomatoes or beets the same way.

20 small Kirby cucumbers (choose firm, fresh, unwaxed, bumpy-textured
cucumbers that are close to equal in size)
3/4 cup kosher salt
15 whole garlic cloves, unpeeled
1 bunch of fresh dill
2 tablespoons pickling spices or:
1 1/2 teaspoons mustard seeds
1 1/2 teaspoons whole black peppercorns
1 teaspoon coriander seeds
1 teaspoon dill seeds
6 bay leaves
1 hot dried red pepper

1. Scrub the cucumbers with a brush in clear water.
2. Pour 1 gallon of water into a large stockpot, add salt, and bring to
a boil. Turn off heat, and allow water to return to room temperature.
While water is cooling, wrap unpeeled garlic cloves in a cloth napkin,
and crush them lightly with the back of a large knife.
3. Pack the cucumber tightly into wide-mouthed jars, add all other
ingredients (distribute equally), and pour salted water over them. The
cucumbers must be covered completely. Put the lid on, shake jar to
distribute spices evenly, and store in a cool place (do not
refrigerate). Open the jar once a day to skim off foam. In 4 days, the
pickles will be half-sour, and can keep, refrigerated, for several
weeks. For sour pickles, do not refrigerate until 6 days have passed.

____
And here are a couple of recipes I use myself. One is for sour and
half-sour pickles as traditionally made in Russia. These are what
all those deli pickles are striving to be. The recipe calls for a lot
of cucumbers, but you can scale it. The other recipe is an accelerated
version, if you want to make them really fast.

Traditionally-made sour and half-sour pickles

Note: You get the best results by selecting very fresh cucumbers,
picked on the same day, if possible, or, failing that, the day before.
They shouldn't be kept dry for any length of time - put them in iced
water at once. That way, cucumbers won't be hollow. Also,
traditionally, cucumbers are pickled in oak barrels which, together with
various leaves and sometimes even tree bark, add some tannin to the
brine, making the cucumbers crisp and crunchy.

10 kg (22 pounds) cucumbers, 4-7 cm (1.6-2.8 inches) in length, cleaned
and washed
2 heads of garlic, divided in cloves and peeled, OR some shavings of
horseradish root
currant leaves, if you can find them
oak leaves, ditto
cherry leaves, ditto
(Some people add a couple of horseradish leaves, too)
fresh dill
coarse (kosher) non-iodised salt
2 teaspoons sugar

Find a suitable receptacle, such as a non-reactive bucket, a wooden
barrel or cask, or large glass jars. Layer the leaves on the bottom,
then the cucumbers in the upright position, packing them tightly, then
add some garlic cloves. Then put on the layer of leaves again, then
cucumbers, garlic and dill and repeat all of the above until the
receptacle is filled. The last layer should be leaves and dill.

Dissolve kosher salt in water (1 tablespoon per 1 litre (1.1 quart)),
and fill the receptacle to the top. It is easier to dissolve salt in
hot water, which has to be cooled afterwards. Cover the receptacle with
a wooden cover or with a plate, put a clean cloth on top and weigh it
down with a heavy stone or something. Keep in a cool place.

The cucumbers will be ready in 1-2 weeks and will keep for a long
time. After one week, they will be so-called malosolnyye (lightly
salted or half-sour) pickles - which many people love. After a month,
they will be completely salted (full sour). From time to time, check
the wooden cover or plate and the cloth for signs of mould and clean and
wash them accordingly.

In a town dwelling, it would perhaps be better to use sealed glass jars
of 1-2 quart capacity. In this case, pack the ingredients tightly in
jars, fill with the salty brine and seal. Put in a cool place for a
week. During this time the brine will ferment and some of it may
escape. This is not a problem - just pour off a bit of the brine, wipe
the jar dry and seal again. Afterwards just keep the jars in a cool
place.


Fast version

2 kg (4.4 pounds) small young cucumbers
optionally, 3-4 currant leaves, or 3-4 oak leaves, or both (then fewer
of each kind)
optionally, a couple of horseradish or cherry leaves
optionally, some freshly grated horseradish root
a large sprig or two of dill
7-8 garlic cloves
salt (80-120 g (2.8-4.2 oz) per 2 litres (2.1 quarts) of water)

Put cucumbers in ice-cold water and refrigerate for a few hours (this
step is optional).
Cut off both ends of cucumbers and place them into a non-reactive
container, layering the leaves and horseradish (if used), as well as the
dill and the garlic in between.
Dissolve the salt in boiling water and taste it to make sure it's
pleasantly salty. Pour the hot solution over cucumbers, making sure
they are fully covered (if they float, weigh them down with something).
The cucumbers will be ready to eat in 4 hours to 2 days, depending on
your preference. Once you deem them to be ready, refrigerate them to
slow down any further development. They will stay at that stage for a
week or so.

Victor

> "Mia"
>Newsgroups: rec.food.cooking
>Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 16:09:06 +0200
>Organization: T-Online
>Lines: 15
>Message-ID: >
>Mime-Version: 1.0
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>X-Priority: 3
>X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
>X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437
>X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441
>
>
>
>Hi all,
>
>When I'm home in NY, I frequent Ben's Kosher Deli (one in L.I and one in
>Manhattan) ... they serve two kinds of complimentary pickles when you sit at
>your table. One is crunchy and brighter green; the other is a more muddy
>green and very sour. I want to make the crunchy, brighter green kind - not
>that sour and really fresh tasting. Have you eaten there and know what
>they're called? I am guessing this is a half-sour pickle but before I invest
>my pound of pickles in a recipe, I just want to make sure. If someone has a
>family recipe, I'd love to hear that as well.


Half sours, full sours, easy to make... search <fermented pickle recipe>. And
what's with that measly pound... hardly pays to make less than 10 pounds. Btw,
I've eaten at Bens... their pickles are lousy, they're old, limp, and served
warm (blech). Make your own. Or go to any Lung Guyland stupidmarket and buy a
jar of Ba-Tampte or Schorr's pickles, look in the refrigerator case near the
kosher foods, usually between the bags of kraut and the Gold's horseradish...
while you're at it get a jar of "New Kraut" and "Sour Tomatoes" too.


---= BOYCOTT FRANCE (belgium) GERMANY--SPAIN =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
*********
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."
Sheldon
````````````

PENMART01 wrote:

> jar of Ba-Tampte

Yuck.

nancy

On Fri, 06 Aug 2004 18:46:34 -0400, Nancy Young >
wrote:

>PENMART01 wrote:
>
>> jar of Ba-Tampte
>
>Yuck.
>
>nancy

i agree. i was expecting something really good, and they were really
nasty.

your pal,
blake

On Fri, 06 Aug 2004 18:46:34 -0400, Nancy Young >
wrote:

>PENMART01 wrote:
>
>> jar of Ba-Tampte
>
>Yuck.
>
>nancy

i agree. i was expecting something really good, and they were really
nasty.

your pal,
blake

"PENMART01" > wrote in message
...
> > "Mia"
> >Newsgroups: rec.food.cooking
> >Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 16:09:06 +0200
> >Organization: T-Online
> >Lines: 15
> >Message-ID: >
> >Mime-Version: 1.0
> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
> >X-Trace: news.t-online.com 1091801502 00 3448 OAkBXyrO+gPFdOz 040806
14:11:42
> >X-Complaints-To:
> >X-ID: r2PHn6ZVYeOEdNhzj5P2TDnQvS8x+OfzJ21svMzyY2tgqHmyAV-4rr
> >X-Priority: 3
> >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
> >X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437
> >X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441
> >
> >
> >
> >Hi all,
> >
> >When I'm home in NY, I frequent Ben's Kosher Deli (one in L.I and one in
> >Manhattan) ... they serve two kinds of complimentary pickles when you sit
at
> >your table. One is crunchy and brighter green; the other is a more muddy
> >green and very sour. I want to make the crunchy, brighter green kind -
not
> >that sour and really fresh tasting. Have you eaten there and know what
> >they're called? I am guessing this is a half-sour pickle but before I
invest
> >my pound of pickles in a recipe, I just want to make sure. If someone has
a
> >family recipe, I'd love to hear that as well.
>
>
> Half sours, full sours, easy to make... search <fermented pickle recipe>.
And
> what's with that measly pound... hardly pays to make less than 10 pounds.
Btw,
> I've eaten at Bens... their pickles are lousy, they're old, limp, and
served
> warm (blech). Make your own. Or go to any Lung Guyland stupidmarket and
buy a
> jar of Ba-Tampte or Schorr's pickles, look in the refrigerator case near
the
> kosher foods, usually between the bags of kraut and the Gold's
horseradish...
> while you're at it get a jar of "New Kraut" and "Sour Tomatoes" too.
>
>
> ---= BOYCOTT FRANCE (belgium) GERMANY--SPAIN =---
> ---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
> *********
> "Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."
> Sheldon
> ````````````
The Great OZ has spoken
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain

PENMART01 wrote:

> jar of Ba-Tampte

Yuck.

nancy

"Mia" > wrote in message
...
> Hi all,
>
> When I'm home in NY, I frequent Ben's Kosher Deli (one in L.I and one in
> Manhattan) ... they serve two kinds of complimentary pickles when you sit
at
> your table. One is crunchy and brighter green; the other is a more muddy
> green and very sour. I want to make the crunchy, brighter green kind - not
> that sour and really fresh tasting. Have you eaten there and know what
> they're called? I am guessing this is a half-sour pickle but before I
invest
> my pound of pickles in a recipe, I just want to make sure. If someone has
a
> family recipe, I'd love to hear that as well.
>
> Thanks!
> Mia
>
>

I have had excellent results with this recipe. Cucumber quality is
important, of course. You can adjust the salt to your taste.

1/4 to 1/3c Morton kosher salt
1 c boiling water

Dissolve the salt in the water and let cool.

2 lb small whole cukes, preferably pickling cukes, washed.
5 or more cloves garlic, smashed.

1 large bunch fresh dill preferably with flowers
or
2 TB dried dill and 1 tsp dill seeds

1 TB whole coriander sends (optional)

Put cukes and spices in a large clean jar. Add brine and anough cold water
to cover. Weight down with a plastic bag filled with water to ensure all
cukes are submerged. Let sit at room temp for at least 24 hours and start
sampling. When they are to your liking move the jar to the fridge. They will
keep a week or so.


--
Peter Aitken

Remove the crap from my email address before using.

"Mia" > wrote in message
...
> Hi all,
>
> When I'm home in NY, I frequent Ben's Kosher Deli (one in L.I and one in
> Manhattan) ... they serve two kinds of complimentary pickles when you sit
at
> your table. One is crunchy and brighter green; the other is a more muddy
> green and very sour. I want to make the crunchy, brighter green kind - not
> that sour and really fresh tasting. Have you eaten there and know what
> they're called? I am guessing this is a half-sour pickle but before I
invest
> my pound of pickles in a recipe, I just want to make sure. If someone has
a
> family recipe, I'd love to hear that as well.
>
> Thanks!
> Mia
>
>

Also ask this question on rec.food.preserving. They also have a faq at :
http://www.gbronline.com/jacke/rfpfaq/rfpFAQ.htm

Look at section D. Pickling (Part 4) for pickle questions.


From that section :

D.4.5 A real New York deli Pickle?
From: Kurt Rieder (riederNOSPAMet.net)


a 5 gal crock layer the following among the cukes: 3 1/3 oz sugar, 3/4 lb
fresh dill, 3/4 oz allspice, 3/8 oz mustard seed, 3/8 oz black pepper corns,
1/8 oz bay leaf, 1 head garlic...broken into cloves.

Put the board on top and the rock on top of the board. Fill the crock with
8% cool salt brine. An 8% brine will contain 3/4 lb salt per gallon brine.
Store at 60 - 70 deg F. That's cooler than ambient this time of year in most
places. Consider the basement or some other cool place. Every few days use a
paper towel or cloth to clean any scum from the surface.

Sample a pickle when you have the urge... after a few days. At first they
will be half sours. A bit longer, 2-3 weeks, and they will become full
sours. Both are often sold in the deli. After they are done, lower the
temperature if you can but don't allow to freeze. Most pickles, even sweet
gherkins, that you buy in the store are made this way. They keep the brine
and recover lactic acid from it. The brined cukes are bottled and covered
with cheaper vinegar... and sugar, if sweet ones are wanted. This is why a
deli pickle has it over all others.

Dean G.

Mia wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> When I'm home in NY, I frequent Ben's Kosher Deli (one in L.I and one in
> Manhattan) ... they serve two kinds of complimentary pickles when you sit at
> your table. One is crunchy and brighter green; the other is a more muddy
> green and very sour. I want to make the crunchy, brighter green kind - not
> that sour and really fresh tasting. Have you eaten there and know what
> they're called? I am guessing this is a half-sour pickle but before I invest
> my pound of pickles in a recipe, I just want to make sure. If someone has a
> family recipe, I'd love to hear that as well.

I would maim someone for a good half sour pickle. You can find them
in the refrigerated section of your store, but I've never been
impressed. Maybe you have a pickle place near you? They are around,
but I don't know of one near me. Darn it.

nancy

Mia > wrote:

> One is crunchy and brighter green; the other is a more muddy
> green and very sour.

Here is a recipe from The 2nd Ave Deli Cookbook. The pickles served at
the Deli are not the very best I have ever tasted but still very good.

Pickles

you can pickle firm green tomatoes or beets the same way.

20 small Kirby cucumbers (choose firm, fresh, unwaxed, bumpy-textured
cucumbers that are close to equal in size)
3/4 cup kosher salt
15 whole garlic cloves, unpeeled
1 bunch of fresh dill
2 tablespoons pickling spices or:
1 1/2 teaspoons mustard seeds
1 1/2 teaspoons whole black peppercorns
1 teaspoon coriander seeds
1 teaspoon dill seeds
6 bay leaves
1 hot dried red pepper

1. Scrub the cucumbers with a brush in clear water.
2. Pour 1 gallon of water into a large stockpot, add salt, and bring to
a boil. Turn off heat, and allow water to return to room temperature.
While water is cooling, wrap unpeeled garlic cloves in a cloth napkin,
and crush them lightly with the back of a large knife.
3. Pack the cucumber tightly into wide-mouthed jars, add all other
ingredients (distribute equally), and pour salted water over them. The
cucumbers must be covered completely. Put the lid on, shake jar to
distribute spices evenly, and store in a cool place (do not
refrigerate). Open the jar once a day to skim off foam. In 4 days, the
pickles will be half-sour, and can keep, refrigerated, for several
weeks. For sour pickles, do not refrigerate until 6 days have passed.

____
And here are a couple of recipes I use myself. One is for sour and
half-sour pickles as traditionally made in Russia. These are what
all those deli pickles are striving to be. The recipe calls for a lot
of cucumbers, but you can scale it. The other recipe is an accelerated
version, if you want to make them really fast.

Traditionally-made sour and half-sour pickles

Note: You get the best results by selecting very fresh cucumbers,
picked on the same day, if possible, or, failing that, the day before.
They shouldn't be kept dry for any length of time - put them in iced
water at once. That way, cucumbers won't be hollow. Also,
traditionally, cucumbers are pickled in oak barrels which, together with
various leaves and sometimes even tree bark, add some tannin to the
brine, making the cucumbers crisp and crunchy.

10 kg (22 pounds) cucumbers, 4-7 cm (1.6-2.8 inches) in length, cleaned
and washed
2 heads of garlic, divided in cloves and peeled, OR some shavings of
horseradish root
currant leaves, if you can find them
oak leaves, ditto
cherry leaves, ditto
(Some people add a couple of horseradish leaves, too)
fresh dill
coarse (kosher) non-iodised salt
2 teaspoons sugar

Find a suitable receptacle, such as a non-reactive bucket, a wooden
barrel or cask, or large glass jars. Layer the leaves on the bottom,
then the cucumbers in the upright position, packing them tightly, then
add some garlic cloves. Then put on the layer of leaves again, then
cucumbers, garlic and dill and repeat all of the above until the
receptacle is filled. The last layer should be leaves and dill.

Dissolve kosher salt in water (1 tablespoon per 1 litre (1.1 quart)),
and fill the receptacle to the top. It is easier to dissolve salt in
hot water, which has to be cooled afterwards. Cover the receptacle with
a wooden cover or with a plate, put a clean cloth on top and weigh it
down with a heavy stone or something. Keep in a cool place.

The cucumbers will be ready in 1-2 weeks and will keep for a long
time. After one week, they will be so-called malosolnyye (lightly
salted or half-sour) pickles - which many people love. After a month,
they will be completely salted (full sour). From time to time, check
the wooden cover or plate and the cloth for signs of mould and clean and
wash them accordingly.

In a town dwelling, it would perhaps be better to use sealed glass jars
of 1-2 quart capacity. In this case, pack the ingredients tightly in
jars, fill with the salty brine and seal. Put in a cool place for a
week. During this time the brine will ferment and some of it may
escape. This is not a problem - just pour off a bit of the brine, wipe
the jar dry and seal again. Afterwards just keep the jars in a cool
place.


Fast version

2 kg (4.4 pounds) small young cucumbers
optionally, 3-4 currant leaves, or 3-4 oak leaves, or both (then fewer
of each kind)
optionally, a couple of horseradish or cherry leaves
optionally, some freshly grated horseradish root
a large sprig or two of dill
7-8 garlic cloves
salt (80-120 g (2.8-4.2 oz) per 2 litres (2.1 quarts) of water)

Put cucumbers in ice-cold water and refrigerate for a few hours (this
step is optional).
Cut off both ends of cucumbers and place them into a non-reactive
container, layering the leaves and horseradish (if used), as well as the
dill and the garlic in between.
Dissolve the salt in boiling water and taste it to make sure it's
pleasantly salty. Pour the hot solution over cucumbers, making sure
they are fully covered (if they float, weigh them down with something).
The cucumbers will be ready to eat in 4 hours to 2 days, depending on
your preference. Once you deem them to be ready, refrigerate them to
slow down any further development. They will stay at that stage for a
week or so.

Victor