Julia Altshuler wrote:
> So many people took it seriously to call it a troll? I thought it was
> cleverly written and funny enough to laugh out loud and read to my
> boyfriend. Put it in the humor thread, and we'd all be applauding. It
> had me going at first, but then I got to the description of the fight
> and calling to apologize at 3:00 in the morning!
>
> Is alcoholics anonymous such hallowed ground that we can't joke about
> it? Was no one suspicious from the first mention of an AA member
> lecturing to the assembled guests that it couldn't be serious? I only
> know about AA from what I read and a few friends I've spoken to, but
> even I know that the last thing you'd find is an AA member being
> sanctimonious to the point of violence.
>
> --Lia
>
I laughed too....You've got a good handle on it Julia.

--

"There's more to life than Underwear" - Inspector 34 |

> wrote in message
...
> I am a recovering alcoholic, and yesterday I was unfairly Kicked Out
> of Thanksgiving Dinner
>

Troll

Your first mistake was bringing it to their attention in the manner in which
you did.

You second mistake was rubbing it in their faces.

Your third mistake was not just getting up from the table and walking out of
the house retaining what little dignity you might have been able to retain.

If you truly are a recovering alcoholic, you would know that the only time
someone will admit they have a problem is when they are ready to admit it.
At a family gathering such as this was is not that time.

Be glad you weren't arrested for assault and battery.


> wrote in message
...
> I am a recovering alcoholic, and yesterday I was unfairly Kicked Out
> of Thanksgiving Dinner
>
> I was invited by some of my relatives yesterday for Thanksgiving.
> During dinner they kept sipping their wine and I sipped some coffee
> instead. After they finished the first bottle of wine, they opened
> another. That's when I started telling them how they were turning
> into alcoholics. Everytime they poured another glass of the poison, I
> would say "Hi, my name is Greg and I am an alcoholic. Would any of
> you like to admit you are an alcoholic and address the table with your
> reason for drinking"? None of them would admit to their addiction,
> and I became upset. I told them that they would soon be in recovery
> or their drinking would destroy their lives. Everytime they poured
> another glass, I repeated this message to them. When they brought out
> the third bottle, and sat it on my side of the table, I became
> furious. I said "hi, my name is Greg, I am an alcoholic, and I am not
> going to tolerate your abusive alcoholic behavior any longer." That's
> when I grabbed that bottle and smashed it on the floor. I thought I
> was doing a good job of helping them maintain whatever was left of
> their sobriety. But NO, my brother hauled off and hit me in the
> stomach with his fist. I quickly told him to admit he is an
> alcoholic, or he would regret what he just did. He refused and told
> me to "**** off". Thats when I got off my chair, lifted the chair and
> busted it across his head. Somehow the table collapsed at the same
> time and all the turkey and food went on to the floor. My brother was
> bleeding badly, when I told him that since this is Thanksgiving, he
> would someday thank me for stopping his drinking on this day. But
> instead of accepting my assistance, he smashed his fist in my face. I
> proceeded to beat the living shit out of him on floor on top of all
> the food. Thats when my sisterinlaw (his wife) came up to me and
> tossed a glass of wine in my face. That did it. I threw her into the
> wall, and busted both her glasses and the wall. Instead of listening
> to my advice, dad, who is 87 years old, walks over to the liquor
> cabinet, grabs a bottle of whiskey, and takes a swallow. Then he
> walks over to me, throws me against the wall, and shoves the bottle in
> my mouth, breaking my tooth. He pours half the bottle down my throat
> and tells me it's time I learn to drink like a man. Then everyone
> there grabbed me, threw me to the floor, on top of the smashed turkey.
> Then dad poured the rest of that bottle down my throat. I could not
> fight all 15 or 20 people, and I swallowed at least half of that
> bottle. I got up and said "Hi, my name is Greg and I am an
> alcoholic".Uncle Roy steps over to me, grabs me around the throat and
> tells me if I say that one more time, I will regret it. I started to
> say "hi my name is......". Thats when they all grabbed me, drug me
> out to my car and told me to leave and not come back. I dont
> know how I got home because I was too drunk and injured to remember
> what I was doing. Somehow I got home, and I have been sitting here
> ever since wondering what I did that was so wrong to deserve that
> treatment. Worse yet, I think I relapsed, even though I did not drink
> the alcohol by choice, and almost drowned from it.
>
> It's 3am and I just called them later a little while ago to apologise.
> They told me they were sleeping, and not to call again. I told them I
> called to ralk, and must talk now. They also told me both my brother
> and his wife were taken to the hospital in an ambulance, and both had
> broken bones from my beating on them. I wanted to say I was sorry and
> explain that I was only trying to save them from their alcoholism.
> Instead I started to say "hi my name is......" when they hung
> up one me. This upset me even more. Now I am not sure what to do.
> Should I go back to detox or what? Should I call the police and tell
> them that my relatives are drunk? I just dont know what to do.
>
> Happy ****ing Thanksgiving
>

You have some serious issues and you need to address them - preferably with
a counselor.


> wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 28 Nov 2003 19:39:37 -0800, "Sam D."
> > wrote:
>
> >
> > wrote in message
> .. .
> >> I am a recovering alcoholic, and yesterday I was unfairly Kicked Out
> >> of Thanksgiving Dinner
> >>
> >
> >Troll
> >
>
> You'll regret saying that !!!!!!!!
> Hope your life insurance is paid up !
>

Sam D. wrote:
> > wrote in message
> ...
>> I am a recovering alcoholic, and yesterday I was unfairly Kicked Out
>> of Thanksgiving Dinner
>>
>
> Troll
Worse!
plonk!
Ken.

wrote:

> I just dont know what to do.
>

One drink at a time!
--
"A Sound Mind. A Healthy Body. Pick One" Mr. Hedge

If this was a joke, this will go in my pile of pre-tnxgiving humour
to send out every year. If not, you have some serious problems and they
should be the ones who call the police and drag your ass back into
detox/rehab.


In article >,
> wrote:
>
>
>I am a recovering alcoholic, and yesterday I was unfairly Kicked Out
>of Thanksgiving Dinner
>
>I was invited by some of my relatives yesterday for Thanksgiving.
>During dinner they kept sipping their wine and I sipped some coffee
>instead. After they finished the first bottle of wine, they opened
>another. That's when I started telling them how they were turning
>into alcoholics. Everytime they poured another glass of the poison, I
>would say "Hi, my name is Greg and I am an alcoholic. Would any of
>you like to admit you are an alcoholic and address the table with your
>reason for drinking"? None of them would admit to their addiction,
>and I became upset. I told them that they would soon be in recovery
>or their drinking would destroy their lives. Everytime they poured
>another glass, I repeated this message to them. When they brought out
>the third bottle, and sat it on my side of the table, I became
>furious. I said "hi, my name is Greg, I am an alcoholic, and I am not
>going to tolerate your abusive alcoholic behavior any longer." That's
>when I grabbed that bottle and smashed it on the floor. I thought I
>was doing a good job of helping them maintain whatever was left of
>their sobriety. But NO, my brother hauled off and hit me in the
>stomach with his fist. I quickly told him to admit he is an
>alcoholic, or he would regret what he just did. He refused and told
>me to "**** off". Thats when I got off my chair, lifted the chair and
>busted it across his head. Somehow the table collapsed at the same
>time and all the turkey and food went on to the floor. My brother was
>bleeding badly, when I told him that since this is Thanksgiving, he
>would someday thank me for stopping his drinking on this day. But
>instead of accepting my assistance, he smashed his fist in my face. I
>proceeded to beat the living shit out of him on floor on top of all
>the food. Thats when my sisterinlaw (his wife) came up to me and
>tossed a glass of wine in my face. That did it. I threw her into the
>wall, and busted both her glasses and the wall. Instead of listening
>to my advice, dad, who is 87 years old, walks over to the liquor
>cabinet, grabs a bottle of whiskey, and takes a swallow. Then he
>walks over to me, throws me against the wall, and shoves the bottle in
>my mouth, breaking my tooth. He pours half the bottle down my throat
>and tells me it's time I learn to drink like a man. Then everyone
>there grabbed me, threw me to the floor, on top of the smashed turkey.
>Then dad poured the rest of that bottle down my throat. I could not
>fight all 15 or 20 people, and I swallowed at least half of that
>bottle. I got up and said "Hi, my name is Greg and I am an
>alcoholic".Uncle Roy steps over to me, grabs me around the throat and
>tells me if I say that one more time, I will regret it. I started to
>say "hi my name is......". Thats when they all grabbed me, drug me
>out to my car and told me to leave and not come back. I dont
>know how I got home because I was too drunk and injured to remember
>what I was doing. Somehow I got home, and I have been sitting here
>ever since wondering what I did that was so wrong to deserve that
>treatment. Worse yet, I think I relapsed, even though I did not drink
>the alcohol by choice, and almost drowned from it.
>
>It's 3am and I just called them later a little while ago to apologise.
>They told me they were sleeping, and not to call again. I told them I
>called to ralk, and must talk now. They also told me both my brother
>and his wife were taken to the hospital in an ambulance, and both had
>broken bones from my beating on them. I wanted to say I was sorry and
>explain that I was only trying to save them from their alcoholism.
>Instead I started to say "hi my name is......" when they hung
>up one me. This upset me even more. Now I am not sure what to do.
>Should I go back to detox or what? Should I call the police and tell
>them that my relatives are drunk? I just dont know what to do.
>
>Happy ****ing Thanksgiving
>


--
Deepak Saxena - - http://www.plexity.net

A trolling story intended to do just what it has!

wrote:
>
> I am a recovering alcoholic, and yesterday I was unfairly Kicked Out
> of Thanksgiving Dinner
>
> I was invited by some of my relatives yesterday for Thanksgiving.
> During dinner they kept sipping their wine and I sipped some coffee
> instead. After they finished the first bottle of wine, they opened
> another. That's when I started telling them how they were turning
> into alcoholics. Everytime they poured another glass of the poison, I
> would say "Hi, my name is Greg and I am an alcoholic. Would any of
> you like to admit you are an alcoholic and address the table with your
> reason for drinking"? None of them would admit to their addiction,
> and I became upset. I told them that they would soon be in recovery
> or their drinking would destroy their lives. Everytime they poured
> another glass, I repeated this message to them. When they brought out
> the third bottle, and sat it on my side of the table, I became
> furious. I said "hi, my name is Greg, I am an alcoholic, and I am not
> going to tolerate your abusive alcoholic behavior any longer." That's
> when I grabbed that bottle and smashed it on the floor. I thought I
> was doing a good job of helping them maintain whatever was left of
> their sobriety. But NO, my brother hauled off and hit me in the
> stomach with his fist. I quickly told him to admit he is an
> alcoholic, or he would regret what he just did. He refused and told
> me to "**** off". Thats when I got off my chair, lifted the chair and
> busted it across his head. Somehow the table collapsed at the same
> time and all the turkey and food went on to the floor. My brother was
> bleeding badly, when I told him that since this is Thanksgiving, he
> would someday thank me for stopping his drinking on this day. But
> instead of accepting my assistance, he smashed his fist in my face. I
> proceeded to beat the living shit out of him on floor on top of all
> the food. Thats when my sisterinlaw (his wife) came up to me and
> tossed a glass of wine in my face. That did it. I threw her into the
> wall, and busted both her glasses and the wall. Instead of listening
> to my advice, dad, who is 87 years old, walks over to the liquor
> cabinet, grabs a bottle of whiskey, and takes a swallow. Then he
> walks over to me, throws me against the wall, and shoves the bottle in
> my mouth, breaking my tooth. He pours half the bottle down my throat
> and tells me it's time I learn to drink like a man. Then everyone
> there grabbed me, threw me to the floor, on top of the smashed turkey.
> Then dad poured the rest of that bottle down my throat. I could not
> fight all 15 or 20 people, and I swallowed at least half of that
> bottle. I got up and said "Hi, my name is Greg and I am an
> alcoholic".Uncle Roy steps over to me, grabs me around the throat and
> tells me if I say that one more time, I will regret it. I started to
> say "hi my name is......". Thats when they all grabbed me, drug me
> out to my car and told me to leave and not come back. I dont
> know how I got home because I was too drunk and injured to remember
> what I was doing. Somehow I got home, and I have been sitting here
> ever since wondering what I did that was so wrong to deserve that
> treatment. Worse yet, I think I relapsed, even though I did not drink
> the alcohol by choice, and almost drowned from it.
>
> It's 3am and I just called them later a little while ago to apologise.
> They told me they were sleeping, and not to call again. I told them I
> called to ralk, and must talk now. They also told me both my brother
> and his wife were taken to the hospital in an ambulance, and both had
> broken bones from my beating on them. I wanted to say I was sorry and
> explain that I was only trying to save them from their alcoholism.
> Instead I started to say "hi my name is......" when they hung
> up one me. This upset me even more. Now I am not sure what to do.
> Should I go back to detox or what? Should I call the police and tell
> them that my relatives are drunk? I just dont know what to do.
>
> Happy ****ing Thanksgiving

This was an obvious troll...

Why are you responding seriously? :-)

Anyone who was truly a recovering alky usually respects other people's
right to drink.... :-P

K.



L Beck wrote:
>
> Your first mistake was bringing it to their attention in the manner in which
> you did.
>
> You second mistake was rubbing it in their faces.
>
> Your third mistake was not just getting up from the table and walking out of
> the house retaining what little dignity you might have been able to retain.
>
> If you truly are a recovering alcoholic, you would know that the only time
> someone will admit they have a problem is when they are ready to admit it.
> At a family gathering such as this was is not that time.
>
> Be glad you weren't arrested for assault and battery.
>
> > wrote in message
> ...
> > I am a recovering alcoholic, and yesterday I was unfairly Kicked Out
> > of Thanksgiving Dinner
> >
> > I was invited by some of my relatives yesterday for Thanksgiving.
> > During dinner they kept sipping their wine and I sipped some coffee
> > instead. After they finished the first bottle of wine, they opened
> > another. That's when I started telling them how they were turning
> > into alcoholics. Everytime they poured another glass of the poison, I
> > would say "Hi, my name is Greg and I am an alcoholic. Would any of
> > you like to admit you are an alcoholic and address the table with your
> > reason for drinking"? None of them would admit to their addiction,
> > and I became upset. I told them that they would soon be in recovery
> > or their drinking would destroy their lives. Everytime they poured
> > another glass, I repeated this message to them. When they brought out
> > the third bottle, and sat it on my side of the table, I became
> > furious. I said "hi, my name is Greg, I am an alcoholic, and I am not
> > going to tolerate your abusive alcoholic behavior any longer." That's
> > when I grabbed that bottle and smashed it on the floor. I thought I
> > was doing a good job of helping them maintain whatever was left of
> > their sobriety. But NO, my brother hauled off and hit me in the
> > stomach with his fist. I quickly told him to admit he is an
> > alcoholic, or he would regret what he just did. He refused and told
> > me to "**** off". Thats when I got off my chair, lifted the chair and
> > busted it across his head. Somehow the table collapsed at the same
> > time and all the turkey and food went on to the floor. My brother was
> > bleeding badly, when I told him that since this is Thanksgiving, he
> > would someday thank me for stopping his drinking on this day. But
> > instead of accepting my assistance, he smashed his fist in my face. I
> > proceeded to beat the living shit out of him on floor on top of all
> > the food. Thats when my sisterinlaw (his wife) came up to me and
> > tossed a glass of wine in my face. That did it. I threw her into the
> > wall, and busted both her glasses and the wall. Instead of listening
> > to my advice, dad, who is 87 years old, walks over to the liquor
> > cabinet, grabs a bottle of whiskey, and takes a swallow. Then he
> > walks over to me, throws me against the wall, and shoves the bottle in
> > my mouth, breaking my tooth. He pours half the bottle down my throat
> > and tells me it's time I learn to drink like a man. Then everyone
> > there grabbed me, threw me to the floor, on top of the smashed turkey.
> > Then dad poured the rest of that bottle down my throat. I could not
> > fight all 15 or 20 people, and I swallowed at least half of that
> > bottle. I got up and said "Hi, my name is Greg and I am an
> > alcoholic".Uncle Roy steps over to me, grabs me around the throat and
> > tells me if I say that one more time, I will regret it. I started to
> > say "hi my name is......". Thats when they all grabbed me, drug me
> > out to my car and told me to leave and not come back. I dont
> > know how I got home because I was too drunk and injured to remember
> > what I was doing. Somehow I got home, and I have been sitting here
> > ever since wondering what I did that was so wrong to deserve that
> > treatment. Worse yet, I think I relapsed, even though I did not drink
> > the alcohol by choice, and almost drowned from it.
> >
> > It's 3am and I just called them later a little while ago to apologise.
> > They told me they were sleeping, and not to call again. I told them I
> > called to ralk, and must talk now. They also told me both my brother
> > and his wife were taken to the hospital in an ambulance, and both had
> > broken bones from my beating on them. I wanted to say I was sorry and
> > explain that I was only trying to save them from their alcoholism.
> > Instead I started to say "hi my name is......" when they hung
> > up one me. This upset me even more. Now I am not sure what to do.
> > Should I go back to detox or what? Should I call the police and tell
> > them that my relatives are drunk? I just dont know what to do.
> >
> > Happy ****ing Thanksgiving
> >

--
>^,,^< Cats-haven Hobby Farm >^,,^< >^,,^<

"There are millions of intelligent species in the universe, and they are
all owned by cats" -- Asimov

Custom handcrafts, Sterling silver beaded jewelry
http://cgi3.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAP...s&userid=katra

wrote:

> I am a recovering alcoholic, and yesterday I was unfairly Kicked Out
> of Thanksgiving Dinner
>
> I was invited by some of my relatives yesterday for Thanksgiving.
> During dinner they kept sipping their wine and I sipped some coffee
> instead. After they finished the first bottle of wine, they opened
> another. That's when I started telling them how they were turning
> into alcoholics. Everytime they poured another glass of the poison, I
> would say "Hi, my name is Greg and I am an alcoholic.


Your also an asshole.

Unless this is a troll. In which case your an asshole.


--

Mark

N.E. Ohio


Never argue with a fool, a bystander can't tell you apart. (S. Clemens,
A.K.A. Mark Twain)

When in doubt hit the throttle. It may not help but it sure ends the
suspense. (Gaz, r.moto)

wrote:
>
> On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 01:37:05 -0600, Katra >
> wrote:
>
> >This was an obvious troll...
> >
> >Why are you responding seriously? :-)
> >
> >Anyone who was truly a recovering alky usually respects other people's
> >right to drink.... :-P
>
> Not when they are part of my own family, and are drinking just to ****
> me off.
>
> If they were strangers, you'd be correct about their rights..
>
> But after having plenty time to think about this, my relatives
> hopefully learned from this experience. They were so busy drinking
> that they had hardly eaten anything. Once the table was smashed and
> all the food was destroyed, they were the losers since they missed the
> thanksgiving dinner. I had eaten a whole plate of food before the
> table went down. Most of them had eaten little or nothing because
> they were too busy drinking. They were the losers in the end, and
> deserve it. They will lose even more and more while they continue
> using alcohol. My brother is in the hospital with broken bones, but
> had I not smashed the bottle, he might be in the morgue from the car
> wreck I prevented. We all need to take care of our blood relatives,
> and sometimes the lessons are harsh.
>
> And by the way, take your troll shit and shove it before I have to
> teach you a harsh lesson.

Get back into therapy...
You need it. ;-)

K.

So many people took it seriously to call it a troll? I thought it was
cleverly written and funny enough to laugh out loud and read to my
boyfriend. Put it in the humor thread, and we'd all be applauding. It
had me going at first, but then I got to the description of the fight
and calling to apologize at 3:00 in the morning!

Is alcoholics anonymous such hallowed ground that we can't joke about
it? Was no one suspicious from the first mention of an AA member
lecturing to the assembled guests that it couldn't be serious? I only
know about AA from what I read and a few friends I've spoken to, but
even I know that the last thing you'd find is an AA member being
sanctimonious to the point of violence.

--Lia

Where is Sheldon the one rare time we need him?

wrote:
>
> I am a recovering alcoholic, and yesterday I was unfairly Kicked Out
> of Thanksgiving Dinner
>
> I was invited by some of my relatives yesterday for Thanksgiving.
> During dinner they kept sipping their wine and I sipped some coffee
> instead. After they finished the first bottle of wine, they opened
> another. That's when I started telling them how they were turning
> into alcoholics. Everytime they poured another glass of the poison, I
> would say "Hi, my name is Greg and I am an alcoholic. Would any of
> you like to admit you are an alcoholic and address the table with your
> reason for drinking"? None of them would admit to their addiction,
> and I became upset. I told them that they would soon be in recovery
> or their drinking would destroy their lives. Everytime they poured
> another glass, I repeated this message to them. When they brought out
> the third bottle, and sat it on my side of the table, I became
> furious. I said "hi, my name is Greg, I am an alcoholic, and I am not
> going to tolerate your abusive alcoholic behavior any longer." That's
> when I grabbed that bottle and smashed it on the floor. I thought I
> was doing a good job of helping them maintain whatever was left of
> their sobriety. But NO, my brother hauled off and hit me in the
> stomach with his fist. I quickly told him to admit he is an
> alcoholic, or he would regret what he just did. He refused and told
> me to "**** off". Thats when I got off my chair, lifted the chair and
> busted it across his head. Somehow the table collapsed at the same
> time and all the turkey and food went on to the floor. My brother was
> bleeding badly, when I told him that since this is Thanksgiving, he
> would someday thank me for stopping his drinking on this day. But
> instead of accepting my assistance, he smashed his fist in my face. I
> proceeded to beat the living shit out of him on floor on top of all
> the food. Thats when my sisterinlaw (his wife) came up to me and
> tossed a glass of wine in my face. That did it. I threw her into the
> wall, and busted both her glasses and the wall. Instead of listening
> to my advice, dad, who is 87 years old, walks over to the liquor
> cabinet, grabs a bottle of whiskey, and takes a swallow. Then he
> walks over to me, throws me against the wall, and shoves the bottle in
> my mouth, breaking my tooth. He pours half the bottle down my throat
> and tells me it's time I learn to drink like a man. Then everyone
> there grabbed me, threw me to the floor, on top of the smashed turkey.
> Then dad poured the rest of that bottle down my throat. I could not
> fight all 15 or 20 people, and I swallowed at least half of that
> bottle. I got up and said "Hi, my name is Greg and I am an
> alcoholic".Uncle Roy steps over to me, grabs me around the throat and
> tells me if I say that one more time, I will regret it. I started to
> say "hi my name is......". Thats when they all grabbed me, drug me
> out to my car and told me to leave and not come back. I dont
> know how I got home because I was too drunk and injured to remember
> what I was doing. Somehow I got home, and I have been sitting here
> ever since wondering what I did that was so wrong to deserve that
> treatment. Worse yet, I think I relapsed, even though I did not drink
> the alcohol by choice, and almost drowned from it.
>
> It's 3am and I just called them later a little while ago to apologise.
> They told me they were sleeping, and not to call again. I told them I
> called to ralk, and must talk now. They also told me both my brother
> and his wife were taken to the hospital in an ambulance, and both had
> broken bones from my beating on them. I wanted to say I was sorry and
> explain that I was only trying to save them from their alcoholism.
> Instead I started to say "hi my name is......" when they hung
> up one me. This upset me even more. Now I am not sure what to do.
> Should I go back to detox or what? Should I call the police and tell
> them that my relatives are drunk? I just dont know what to do.
>
> Happy ****ing Thanksgiving

I've noted that Sheldong tends to ignore deliberate trolls... ;-)

K.

"Kent H." wrote:
>
> Where is Sheldon the one rare time we need him?
>
> wrote:
> >
> > I am a recovering alcoholic, and yesterday I was unfairly Kicked Out
> > of Thanksgiving Dinner
> >
> > I was invited by some of my relatives yesterday for Thanksgiving.
> > During dinner they kept sipping their wine and I sipped some coffee
> > instead. After they finished the first bottle of wine, they opened
> > another. That's when I started telling them how they were turning
> > into alcoholics. Everytime they poured another glass of the poison, I
> > would say "Hi, my name is Greg and I am an alcoholic. Would any of
> > you like to admit you are an alcoholic and address the table with your
> > reason for drinking"? None of them would admit to their addiction,
> > and I became upset. I told them that they would soon be in recovery
> > or their drinking would destroy their lives. Everytime they poured
> > another glass, I repeated this message to them. When they brought out
> > the third bottle, and sat it on my side of the table, I became
> > furious. I said "hi, my name is Greg, I am an alcoholic, and I am not
> > going to tolerate your abusive alcoholic behavior any longer." That's
> > when I grabbed that bottle and smashed it on the floor. I thought I
> > was doing a good job of helping them maintain whatever was left of
> > their sobriety. But NO, my brother hauled off and hit me in the
> > stomach with his fist. I quickly told him to admit he is an
> > alcoholic, or he would regret what he just did. He refused and told
> > me to "**** off". Thats when I got off my chair, lifted the chair and
> > busted it across his head. Somehow the table collapsed at the same
> > time and all the turkey and food went on to the floor. My brother was
> > bleeding badly, when I told him that since this is Thanksgiving, he
> > would someday thank me for stopping his drinking on this day. But
> > instead of accepting my assistance, he smashed his fist in my face. I
> > proceeded to beat the living shit out of him on floor on top of all
> > the food. Thats when my sisterinlaw (his wife) came up to me and
> > tossed a glass of wine in my face. That did it. I threw her into the
> > wall, and busted both her glasses and the wall. Instead of listening
> > to my advice, dad, who is 87 years old, walks over to the liquor
> > cabinet, grabs a bottle of whiskey, and takes a swallow. Then he
> > walks over to me, throws me against the wall, and shoves the bottle in
> > my mouth, breaking my tooth. He pours half the bottle down my throat
> > and tells me it's time I learn to drink like a man. Then everyone
> > there grabbed me, threw me to the floor, on top of the smashed turkey.
> > Then dad poured the rest of that bottle down my throat. I could not
> > fight all 15 or 20 people, and I swallowed at least half of that
> > bottle. I got up and said "Hi, my name is Greg and I am an
> > alcoholic".Uncle Roy steps over to me, grabs me around the throat and
> > tells me if I say that one more time, I will regret it. I started to
> > say "hi my name is......". Thats when they all grabbed me, drug me
> > out to my car and told me to leave and not come back. I dont
> > know how I got home because I was too drunk and injured to remember
> > what I was doing. Somehow I got home, and I have been sitting here
> > ever since wondering what I did that was so wrong to deserve that
> > treatment. Worse yet, I think I relapsed, even though I did not drink
> > the alcohol by choice, and almost drowned from it.
> >
> > It's 3am and I just called them later a little while ago to apologise.
> > They told me they were sleeping, and not to call again. I told them I
> > called to ralk, and must talk now. They also told me both my brother
> > and his wife were taken to the hospital in an ambulance, and both had
> > broken bones from my beating on them. I wanted to say I was sorry and
> > explain that I was only trying to save them from their alcoholism.
> > Instead I started to say "hi my name is......" when they hung
> > up one me. This upset me even more. Now I am not sure what to do.
> > Should I go back to detox or what? Should I call the police and tell
> > them that my relatives are drunk? I just dont know what to do.
> >
> > Happy ****ing Thanksgiving

--
>^,,^< Cats-haven Hobby Farm >^,,^< >^,,^<

"There are millions of intelligent species in the universe, and they are
all owned by cats" -- Asimov

Custom handcrafts, Sterling silver beaded jewelry
http://cgi3.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAP...s&userid=katra

threatened in message
...
> On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 07:20:03 GMT, "Kent H." > wrote:
>
> >A trolling story intended to do just what it has!
> >
> For that comment, you will be drinking more than a fifth of whiskey.
> You'll have a fifth of rat poison shoved down your throat. As soon as
> my brother recovers, we'll be looking for you!

Just tape it.

The Ranger

wrote:
> Hello - My name is Greg and I am an alcoholic.
> I have my AA sponsor for support. Who do you have?

Hello - My name is John and I am a sexaholic.
I have my boyfriend's mouth for support. Who do you have?



Sorry, I just couldn't resist trolling the troll :-)

--
John Gaughan
http://www.johngaughan.net/

On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 02:16:39 -0600,
wrote:

> On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 01:37:05 -0600, Katra >
> wrote:
> >
> >Anyone who was truly a recovering alky usually respects other people's
> >right to drink.... :-P
>
> Not when they are part of my own family, and are drinking just to ****
> me off.
>

Reformed drinkers and smokers are obnoxious when they on a
crusade. I doubt your family was trying to **** you off,
but you certainly were rude to them. If you're that much of
a jerk w/o booze, you must have been extremely unpleasant to
be around when you were a drinker.

OTOH: Some people ruin get-togethers with or without booze
and you sound like one of them. Look at what you're doing
to deserve that sort of treatment and change it or get a
clue and spend your holidays elsewhere.

>From:

>Hello - My name is Greg and I am an alcoholic.
>I have my AA sponsor for support. Who do you have?
>

My friends and family because I haven't alienated them.

Cheers!
Ellen

>From: Julia Altshuler

>I only
>know about AA from what I read and a few friends I've spoken to, but
>even I know that the last thing you'd find is an AA member being
>sanctimonious to the point of violence.

You haven't met my SIL!

Ellen

what a maroon!

Katra wrote:
>
> I've noted that Sheldong tends to ignore deliberate trolls... ;-)

What does ShelDONG mean. You've hit onto something?
>
> K.
>
> "Kent H." wrote:
> >
> > Where is Sheldon the one rare time we need him?
> >
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > I am a recovering alcoholic, and yesterday I was unfairly Kicked Out
> > > of Thanksgiving Dinner
> > >
> > > I was invited by some of my relatives yesterday for Thanksgiving.
> > > During dinner they kept sipping their wine and I sipped some coffee
> > > instead. After they finished the first bottle of wine, they opened
> > > another. That's when I started telling them how they were turning
> > > into alcoholics. Everytime they poured another glass of the poison, I
> > > would say "Hi, my name is Greg and I am an alcoholic. Would any of
> > > you like to admit you are an alcoholic and address the table with your
> > > reason for drinking"? None of them would admit to their addiction,
> > > and I became upset. I told them that they would soon be in recovery
> > > or their drinking would destroy their lives. Everytime they poured
> > > another glass, I repeated this message to them. When they brought out
> > > the third bottle, and sat it on my side of the table, I became
> > > furious. I said "hi, my name is Greg, I am an alcoholic, and I am not
> > > going to tolerate your abusive alcoholic behavior any longer." That's
> > > when I grabbed that bottle and smashed it on the floor. I thought I
> > > was doing a good job of helping them maintain whatever was left of
> > > their sobriety. But NO, my brother hauled off and hit me in the
> > > stomach with his fist. I quickly told him to admit he is an
> > > alcoholic, or he would regret what he just did. He refused and told
> > > me to "**** off". Thats when I got off my chair, lifted the chair and
> > > busted it across his head. Somehow the table collapsed at the same
> > > time and all the turkey and food went on to the floor. My brother was
> > > bleeding badly, when I told him that since this is Thanksgiving, he
> > > would someday thank me for stopping his drinking on this day. But
> > > instead of accepting my assistance, he smashed his fist in my face. I
> > > proceeded to beat the living shit out of him on floor on top of all
> > > the food. Thats when my sisterinlaw (his wife) came up to me and
> > > tossed a glass of wine in my face. That did it. I threw her into the
> > > wall, and busted both her glasses and the wall. Instead of listening
> > > to my advice, dad, who is 87 years old, walks over to the liquor
> > > cabinet, grabs a bottle of whiskey, and takes a swallow. Then he
> > > walks over to me, throws me against the wall, and shoves the bottle in
> > > my mouth, breaking my tooth. He pours half the bottle down my throat
> > > and tells me it's time I learn to drink like a man. Then everyone
> > > there grabbed me, threw me to the floor, on top of the smashed turkey.
> > > Then dad poured the rest of that bottle down my throat. I could not
> > > fight all 15 or 20 people, and I swallowed at least half of that
> > > bottle. I got up and said "Hi, my name is Greg and I am an
> > > alcoholic".Uncle Roy steps over to me, grabs me around the throat and
> > > tells me if I say that one more time, I will regret it. I started to
> > > say "hi my name is......". Thats when they all grabbed me, drug me
> > > out to my car and told me to leave and not come back. I dont
> > > know how I got home because I was too drunk and injured to remember
> > > what I was doing. Somehow I got home, and I have been sitting here
> > > ever since wondering what I did that was so wrong to deserve that
> > > treatment. Worse yet, I think I relapsed, even though I did not drink
> > > the alcohol by choice, and almost drowned from it.
> > >
> > > It's 3am and I just called them later a little while ago to apologise.
> > > They told me they were sleeping, and not to call again. I told them I
> > > called to ralk, and must talk now. They also told me both my brother
> > > and his wife were taken to the hospital in an ambulance, and both had
> > > broken bones from my beating on them. I wanted to say I was sorry and
> > > explain that I was only trying to save them from their alcoholism.
> > > Instead I started to say "hi my name is......" when they hung
> > > up one me. This upset me even more. Now I am not sure what to do.
> > > Should I go back to detox or what? Should I call the police and tell
> > > them that my relatives are drunk? I just dont know what to do.
> > >
> > > Happy ****ing Thanksgiving
>
> --
> >^,,^< Cats-haven Hobby Farm >^,,^< >^,,^<
>
> "There are millions of intelligent species in the universe, and they are
> all owned by cats" -- Asimov
>
> Custom handcrafts, Sterling silver beaded jewelry
> http://cgi3.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAP...s&userid=katra

wrote:
> I am a recovering alcoholic, and yesterday I was unfairly Kicked Out
> of Thanksgiving Dinner
>
> I was invited by some of my relatives yesterday for Thanksgiving.
> During dinner they kept sipping their wine and I sipped some coffee
> instead. After they finished the first bottle of wine, they opened
> another. That's when I started telling them how they were turning
> into alcoholics. Everytime they poured another glass of the poison, I
> would say "Hi, my name is Greg and I am an alcoholic. Would any of
> you like to admit you are an alcoholic and address the table with your
> reason for drinking"? None of them would admit to their addiction,
> and I became upset. I told them that they would soon be in recovery
> or their drinking would destroy their lives. Everytime they poured
> another glass, I repeated this message to them. When they brought out
> the third bottle, and sat it on my side of the table, I became
> furious. I said "hi, my name is Greg, I am an alcoholic, and I am not
> going to tolerate your abusive alcoholic behavior any longer." That's
> when I grabbed that bottle and smashed it on the floor. I thought I
> was doing a good job of helping them maintain whatever was left of
> their sobriety. But NO, my brother hauled off and hit me in the
> stomach with his fist. I quickly told him to admit he is an
> alcoholic, or he would regret what he just did. He refused and told
> me to "**** off". Thats when I got off my chair, lifted the chair and
> busted it across his head. Somehow the table collapsed at the same
> time and all the turkey and food went on to the floor. My brother was
> bleeding badly, when I told him that since this is Thanksgiving, he
> would someday thank me for stopping his drinking on this day. But
> instead of accepting my assistance, he smashed his fist in my face. I
> proceeded to beat the living shit out of him on floor on top of all
> the food. Thats when my sisterinlaw (his wife) came up to me and
> tossed a glass of wine in my face. That did it. I threw her into the
> wall, and busted both her glasses and the wall. Instead of listening
> to my advice, dad, who is 87 years old, walks over to the liquor
> cabinet, grabs a bottle of whiskey, and takes a swallow. Then he
> walks over to me, throws me against the wall, and shoves the bottle in
> my mouth, breaking my tooth. He pours half the bottle down my throat
> and tells me it's time I learn to drink like a man. Then everyone
> there grabbed me, threw me to the floor, on top of the smashed turkey.
> Then dad poured the rest of that bottle down my throat. I could not
> fight all 15 or 20 people, and I swallowed at least half of that
> bottle. I got up and said "Hi, my name is Greg and I am an
> alcoholic".Uncle Roy steps over to me, grabs me around the throat and
> tells me if I say that one more time, I will regret it. I started to
> say "hi my name is......". Thats when they all grabbed me, drug me
> out to my car and told me to leave and not come back. I dont
> know how I got home because I was too drunk and injured to remember
> what I was doing. Somehow I got home, and I have been sitting here
> ever since wondering what I did that was so wrong to deserve that
> treatment. Worse yet, I think I relapsed, even though I did not drink
> the alcohol by choice, and almost drowned from it.
>
> It's 3am and I just called them later a little while ago to apologise.
> They told me they were sleeping, and not to call again. I told them I
> called to ralk, and must talk now. They also told me both my brother
> and his wife were taken to the hospital in an ambulance, and both had
> broken bones from my beating on them. I wanted to say I was sorry and
> explain that I was only trying to save them from their alcoholism.
> Instead I started to say "hi my name is......" when they hung
> up one me. This upset me even more. Now I am not sure what to do.
> Should I go back to detox or what? Should I call the police and tell
> them that my relatives are drunk? I just dont know what to do.
>
> Happy ****ing Thanksgiving
>

Based on your story, in which I have no way of proving its validity, you
seem to come from a dysfunctional family; you being one of the end
products. Alas, ignorance propagates more ignorance; and your
procreation will probably be the same.

Your whole approach was wrong, and IMHO, you behaved worse than the
stupidest bum I've known, even while you were "sober" or did you smoke
or snort something?

AA is a friggin cult. It's helped many people, but it's a known cult.
There are people who make $$ running said cults. It's clear by their
code of conduct, that they want to make people, who already are
vulnerable to deriding attacks, feel worthless and powerless unless they
have AA.

People have to make the decision to stop a chemical dependence on their
own. They know they have a problem, and when they do, they start to
experience social, family, et cetera, issues.

Also, there are people who abuse alcohol (the guy that rarely drinks,
but when he does, he behaves childish, combative, whatever,) and those
that are dependent on it (the alcoholic.) I suspect your family is a
combination of these.

You are lucky that no one there had a firearm, because from the details
you gave (tossed wine, broken bottles, fist fights, smashing furniture,)
things were getting very ugly.

I only hope that there were no children to witness this fandango.

Get a friggin life and get some help with your
temper/frustrations/ignorance.

Richard



--
"..A census taker once tried to test me. I ate his liver with some fava
beans and a nice chianti..."

Hannibal "The Cannibal"

Silence Of The Lambs 1991

> wrote:
>>
>> I am a recovering alcoholic, and yesterday I was unfairly Kicked Out
>> of Thanksgiving Dinner


This is friggen hilarious, whoever wrote this has comedic genius!

and i'll add that, if there's any truth to this, the meal should've been washed
down by all with jim jones kool-aid.

wrote:
> On Sun, 30 Nov 2003 02:52:36 GMT, Richard Periut >
> wrote:
>
>
> The 12 steps below.
>
>
>
> I'll be working the 8th step this week......
> (not easy with my ****ed up family)
>
> The 12 Steps
>
> 1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol -- that our lives had
> become unmanageable.
>
> 2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore
> us to sanity.
>
> 3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of
> God as we understood Him.
>
> 4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
>
> 5. Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact
> nature of our wrongs.
>
> 6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of
> character.
>
> 7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.
>
> 8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to
> make amends to them all.
>
> 9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to
> do so would injure them or others.
>
> 10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong
> promptly admitted it.
>
> 11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious
> contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of
> His will for us and the power to carry that out.
>
> 12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these Steps, we
> tried to carry this message to others, and to practice these
> principles in all our affairs.
>
>
>
> http://www.aa.org
>
If all you are saying is true; I recommend yo apologize to your family,
for starting the whole fiasco, and don't show up for a long time. Just
keep phone contact with them. Let the "coals" burn down. And I would
avoid holidays with them all together, unless they abide by your
request. If you show up and they are drinking alcohol, simply leave.
BTW, if you are in recovery, it should bother you to be amongst people
that drink. Get used to it. Most of society drinks wine/beer witht their
meals, and it's something you are going to have to adapt to.

If you are making this up; you need to start producing works of
literature, dramatic arts, et cetera.

Anyway, go to this site and take a good look at what AA really is:

http://www.rational.org/Cult.html




--
"..A census taker once tried to test me. I ate his liver with some fava
beans and a nice chianti..."

Hannibal "The Cannibal"

Silence Of The Lambs 1991

---Elk's anecdote snipped---
Elk, I say this with kindness. You sound very new in your program since
you are doing the two-step: taking step one and going straight to step
twelve.
This I ask as a professional: what are the mood disorders in your
family? There is a temporal rage associated with men whose paternal
line is plagued with depressions. There are meds, usually an
anti-convuslsent, a doctor can decide upon.
This I say as a professional: What you did is not OK. Many AA-ers also
participate in Al-Anon because someone else's drinking makes them crazy.
You are lucky the family didn't call the law on you. If in fact the
family was drinking and becoming drunk, I guess you couldn't have
handled it. It is a slippery situation , and you could've made excuses
and left. If you are in a large city no doubt the AA clubs have
continuous meetings on the major holidays.
This I say merely as an rfc-er: Thanks for posting. Your family
out-jerry springers my family by many many orders of magntiude. Even if
you are a troll, this story pulled me outta a family drama that has
gotten on my last nerve.

~~~Gina~~~

Kai wrote:
> Richard Periut wrote:
>
>>
>> Anyway, go to this site and take a good look at what AA really is:
>>
>> http://www.rational.org/Cult.html
>
>
> It's a good thing there's a website telling everyone just what AA really
> is. How could one know, otherwise?
>
> Kai
>

Thank God for the communication age we live ine!

Richard

--
"..A census taker once tried to test me. I ate his liver with some fava
beans and a nice chianti..."

Hannibal "The Cannibal"

Silence Of The Lambs 1991

Richard Periut wrote:
>
> Anyway, go to this site and take a good look at what AA really is:
>
> http://www.rational.org/Cult.html

It's a good thing there's a website telling everyone just what AA
really is. How could one know, otherwise?

Kai

"Kai" <
| Richard Periut wrote:
| >
| > Anyway, go to this site and take a good look at what AA really is:
| >
| > http://www.rational.org/Cult.html
|
| It's a good thing there's a website telling everyone just what AA
| really is. How could one know, otherwise?

Read the book, read the steps, listen to AA's trying to fool everyone that
what's in the book and what's in the steps isn't really in the book or in
the steps.

"Richard Periut" <
| Kai wrote:
| > Richard Periut wrote:
| >
| >>
| >> Anyway, go to this site and take a good look at what AA really is:
| >>
| >> http://www.rational.org/Cult.html
| >
| >
| > It's a good thing there's a website telling everyone just what AA really
| > is. How could one know, otherwise?
| >
| > Kai
| >
|
| Thank God for the communication age we live ine!
|
| Richard

Yes it's hastening the demise of both coercion and AA.

wrote:
>
>
> The 12 steps below.
>
> I'll be working the 8th step this week......
> (not easy with my ****ed up family)
>
> The 12 Steps
>
> 1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol -- that our lives had
> become unmanageable.
>
> 2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore
> us to sanity.
>
> 3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of
> God as we understood Him.
>
> 4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
>
> 5. Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact
> nature of our wrongs.
>
> 6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of
> character.
>
> 7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.
>
> 8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to
> make amends to them all.
>
> 9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to
> do so would injure them or others.
>
> 10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong
> promptly admitted it.
>
> 11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious
> contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of
> His will for us and the power to carry that out.
>
> 12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these Steps, we
> tried to carry this message to others, and to practice these
> principles in all our affairs.
>
>
>
> http://www.aa.org


12 steps work ok... if you believe in god.
What if you are an athiest? ;-)

Personally, I cannot stand "holier than thou" ass holes.
You SHOULD be able to be in the presence of other people
drinking and not respond to it!

Get over yourself already!

K.

This is hilarious! Reminds me of a classical music story (see below)
about just this kind of loser.

> wrote:
>
> I am a recovering alcoholic, and yesterday I was unfairly Kicked Out
> of Thanksgiving Dinner
>
> I was invited by some of my relatives yesterday for Thanksgiving.
> During dinner they kept sipping their wine and I sipped some coffee
> instead. After they finished the first bottle of wine, they opened
> another. That's when I started telling them how they were turning
> into alcoholics. Everytime they poured another glass of the poison, I
> would say "Hi, my name is Greg and I am an alcoholic. Would any of
> you like to admit you are an alcoholic and address the table with your
> reason for drinking"? None of them would admit to their addiction,
> and I became upset. I told them that they would soon be in recovery
> or their drinking would destroy their lives. Everytime they poured
> another glass, I repeated this message to them. When they brought out
> the third bottle, and sat it on my side of the table, I became
> furious. I said "hi, my name is Greg, I am an alcoholic, and I am not
> going to tolerate your abusive alcoholic behavior any longer." That's
> when I grabbed that bottle and smashed it on the floor. I thought I
> was doing a good job of helping them maintain whatever was left of
> their sobriety. But NO, my brother hauled off and hit me in the
> stomach with his fist. I quickly told him to admit he is an
> alcoholic, or he would regret what he just did. He refused and told
> me to "**** off". Thats when I got off my chair, lifted the chair and
> busted it across his head. Somehow the table collapsed at the same
> time and all the turkey and food went on to the floor. My brother was
> bleeding badly, when I told him that since this is Thanksgiving, he
> would someday thank me for stopping his drinking on this day. But
> instead of accepting my assistance, he smashed his fist in my face. I
> proceeded to beat the living shit out of him on floor on top of all
> the food. Thats when my sisterinlaw (his wife) came up to me and
> tossed a glass of wine in my face. That did it. I threw her into the
> wall, and busted both her glasses and the wall. Instead of listening
> to my advice, dad, who is 87 years old, walks over to the liquor
> cabinet, grabs a bottle of whiskey, and takes a swallow. Then he
> walks over to me, throws me against the wall, and shoves the bottle in
> my mouth, breaking my tooth. He pours half the bottle down my throat
> and tells me it's time I learn to drink like a man. Then everyone
> there grabbed me, threw me to the floor, on top of the smashed turkey.
> Then dad poured the rest of that bottle down my throat. I could not
> fight all 15 or 20 people, and I swallowed at least half of that
> bottle. I got up and said "Hi, my name is Greg and I am an
> alcoholic".Uncle Roy steps over to me, grabs me around the throat and
> tells me if I say that one more time, I will regret it. I started to
> say "hi my name is......". Thats when they all grabbed me, drug me
> out to my car and told me to leave and not come back. I dont
> know how I got home because I was too drunk and injured to remember
> what I was doing. Somehow I got home, and I have been sitting here
> ever since wondering what I did that was so wrong to deserve that
> treatment. Worse yet, I think I relapsed, even though I did not drink
> the alcohol by choice, and almost drowned from it.
>
> It's 3am and I just called them later a little while ago to apologise.
> They told me they were sleeping, and not to call again. I told them I
> called to ralk, and must talk now. They also told me both my brother
> and his wife were taken to the hospital in an ambulance, and both had
> broken bones from my beating on them. I wanted to say I was sorry and
> explain that I was only trying to save them from their alcoholism.
> Instead I started to say "hi my name is......" when they hung
> up one me. This upset me even more. Now I am not sure what to do.
> Should I go back to detox or what? Should I call the police and tell
> them that my relatives are drunk? I just dont know what to do.

In 1978 or '79, my father offered us the use of a box at the Hollywood
Bowl which he had access to through his employer, the Lloyd
Corporation. So four of us planned to go to hear this concert --
myself, my wife, a guy named Amos who was renting a room from us (fellow
grad composition student), and his girfriend at the time, whose name I
forget (some redhead pianist, something like "Kim"). I also forget what
was on the concert. maybe Mahler. Amos had what you could politely call
"personal problems," one being that his girlfriend was throwing herself
physically at him. For some reason he found this very upsetting -- on
the way home from the concert later that night, with them in the back
seat, she lay down ansd wrapped her legs around him, and this noticeably
shook him up -- "Oh GOD!" he called out, and put his hands to his face.

Because he was so easily upset, especially when it involved this girl,
he proceeded to drink six beers in 30 minutes while getting dressed. By
the time we left, fifteen minutes after he finished his sixth beer, he
was very drunk. We picked up his girlfriend, and also a bottle of wine,
which they proceeded to drink up at the Bowl just before the concert.
My wife and I were seated in front of them. I wasn't very optimistic
about the situation, so I did my best to ignore them and pay attention
to the music. They talked incessantly during all the music. The people
to my right told them to shut up, but they kept on talking. During the
second half, the Manager of the Bowl (!) came up to us and told them to
shut up. And they kept right on talking.

After the concert was over, Amos went up to the Bowl Manager and started
to get belligerant. Suddenly he was at my side, saying, "We have to get
out of here, NOW!!" I asked him what the hell was wrong with him. He
said that he had threatened the Bowl Manager, and the guy had told him
back that he could have him (Amos) killed any time he wantewd to. I'm
thinking, "Amos you jerk, you got us in trouble with the goddamn Bowl
staff!" Naturally we were never given the use of the box again.

Absolutley a true story.

Amos's drinking got worse, and he was a real sniveller when he was
polluted. He also "borrowed" a couple of my albums (like my David
Munrow set) and then denied he had them, and they never turned up
again. We eventually asked him to move out, and he was crying the night
he left for his folks' house (and my nephew came for a visit) -- he said
his father would be mean to him or something (this guy was someting like
28 at the time). I had the tape running -- he was saying things like,
"It's my party and I'll cry if I want to." And, "Oh God, can't I stay
here a little longer??" No, we told him, he should go to his folks'
house as he had planned to do. (He showed up uninvited a week later,
still crying about how he had had to go to his folks' house that week,
and demanding that my nephew sleep on the couch so he could have his old
bed for the night.)

Over the next few years he became a born-again Christian. Some ten
years after he moved out of our place, he called us up and started
beratng us because 9he said) we were alcoholics and out of control
boozers and we had to to find Jesus and give up drinking like he had.
My wife hung upon him and that was the last we heard from him.

Musically, he wasn't very good. He came to insist that music had to be
"justifiable," using things such as invertible counterpoint and regular
harmonies, or it was no good. Hre dismissed the harmonies of Ives's 3rd
Symphony as "being a blur" and had little to say that was good about my
music. He has never taught music or had any job in music since college
that we ever heard of.

Well, here is a confession: Before he moved out, I looked for and made a
xerox copy of a piece he had composed called "Grasshopper Concentration
Moon," which involved a guy in a grassshopper suit playing an organ, and
a leather-clad dominatrix torturing a guy bound in a chair, while Zappa
music played over a radio. I had a feelng at the time that this piece
of his was something I would want to archive. I still have it --
somewhere. It had instructions, drawings, music, something he had
seriously worked on and took seriously, but which he would he horrified
for anyone to see today, because he's "born-again" and all.

I think it's time for the world to see "Grasshopper Concentration Moon"
in print....

--

Add "dg" to username to reply.

On Sun, 30 Nov 2003 wrote:

> >AA is a friggin cult. It's helped many people, but it's a known cult.
> >There are people who make $$ running said cults. It's clear by their
> >code of conduct, that they want to make people, who already are
> >vulnerable to deriding attacks, feel worthless and powerless unless they
> >have AA.
>
> Have you read the 12 steps. I will post them at the end.
>
> 1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol -- that our lives had
> become unmanageable.

Sounds like they're trying to make people useless and powerless to me, and
wow! That's right at step 1! From there, it just goes downhill.

> You cant stop by yourself, especially when your friends and family are
> all drunk all the time. You need other people for support and they
> cant be drunks. AA is that support because there is no where else to
> find sober people who care.

Of course you can quit on your own, you just choose not to. If you need
help quitting, check out the Internet Crash Course on the Addictive Voice
Recognition Technique - "http://rational.org/Crash.html". L8r.

In article c.ca>, Tim
Browne > wrote:

> Of course you can quit on your own, you just choose not to. If you need
> help quitting, check out the Internet Crash Course on the Addictive Voice
> Recognition Technique - "http://rational.org/Crash.html". L8r.

Why recommend psychologically harmful amateur mind-control methods that
push creating delusional paganistic "beasts" that are fighting you in
your own brain?

Tim Browne wrote:
>
> On Sun, 30 Nov 2003 wrote:
>
> > >AA is a friggin cult. It's helped many people, but it's a known cult.
> > >There are people who make $$ running said cults. It's clear by their
> > >code of conduct, that they want to make people, who already are
> > >vulnerable to deriding attacks, feel worthless and powerless unless they
> > >have AA.
> >
> > Have you read the 12 steps. I will post them at the end.
> >
> > 1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol -- that our lives had
> > become unmanageable.
>
> Sounds like they're trying to make people useless and powerless to me, and
> wow! That's right at step 1! From there, it just goes downhill.
>
> > You cant stop by yourself, especially when your friends and family are
> > all drunk all the time. You need other people for support and they
> > cant be drunks. AA is that support because there is no where else to
> > find sober people who care.
>
> Of course you can quit on your own, you just choose not to. If you need
> help quitting, check out the Internet Crash Course on the Addictive Voice
> Recognition Technique - "http://rational.org/Crash.html". L8r.

Great link, thanks! :-)
I will pass this on as needed to friends and family.... <G>

I've always hated AA! They take you and strip you of your self esteem
and make you feel like a worthless person, then try to build you up
again. They propagate the myth that alcohol controls your life! So
wrong... It is YOU that controls your life and makes those kinds of
decisions. Quitting harmful habits does not take strength or willpower,
just a choice of taking back control of your life. :-)

It is similar for food addictions...

Just my opinion.

K.

D.G. Porter wrote:
> This is hilarious! Reminds me of a classical music story (see below)
> about just this kind of loser.
>
>
wrote:
>>
>>I am a recovering alcoholic, and yesterday I was unfairly Kicked Out
>>of Thanksgiving Dinner
>>
>>I was invited by some of my relatives yesterday for Thanksgiving.
>>During dinner they kept sipping their wine and I sipped some coffee
>>instead. After they finished the first bottle of wine, they opened
>>another. That's when I started telling them how they were turning
>>into alcoholics. Everytime they poured another glass of the poison, I
>>would say "Hi, my name is Greg and I am an alcoholic. Would any of
>>you like to admit you are an alcoholic and address the table with your
>>reason for drinking"? None of them would admit to their addiction,
>>and I became upset. I told them that they would soon be in recovery
>>or their drinking would destroy their lives. Everytime they poured
>>another glass, I repeated this message to them. When they brought out
>>the third bottle, and sat it on my side of the table, I became
>>furious. I said "hi, my name is Greg, I am an alcoholic, and I am not
>>going to tolerate your abusive alcoholic behavior any longer." That's
>>when I grabbed that bottle and smashed it on the floor. I thought I
>>was doing a good job of helping them maintain whatever was left of
>>their sobriety. But NO, my brother hauled off and hit me in the
>>stomach with his fist. I quickly told him to admit he is an
>>alcoholic, or he would regret what he just did. He refused and told
>>me to "**** off". Thats when I got off my chair, lifted the chair and
>>busted it across his head. Somehow the table collapsed at the same
>>time and all the turkey and food went on to the floor. My brother was
>>bleeding badly, when I told him that since this is Thanksgiving, he
>>would someday thank me for stopping his drinking on this day. But
>>instead of accepting my assistance, he smashed his fist in my face. I
>>proceeded to beat the living shit out of him on floor on top of all
>>the food. Thats when my sisterinlaw (his wife) came up to me and
>>tossed a glass of wine in my face. That did it. I threw her into the
>>wall, and busted both her glasses and the wall. Instead of listening
>>to my advice, dad, who is 87 years old, walks over to the liquor
>>cabinet, grabs a bottle of whiskey, and takes a swallow. Then he
>>walks over to me, throws me against the wall, and shoves the bottle in
>>my mouth, breaking my tooth. He pours half the bottle down my throat
>>and tells me it's time I learn to drink like a man. Then everyone
>>there grabbed me, threw me to the floor, on top of the smashed turkey.
>>Then dad poured the rest of that bottle down my throat. I could not
>>fight all 15 or 20 people, and I swallowed at least half of that
>>bottle. I got up and said "Hi, my name is Greg and I am an
>>alcoholic".Uncle Roy steps over to me, grabs me around the throat and
>>tells me if I say that one more time, I will regret it. I started to
>>say "hi my name is......". Thats when they all grabbed me, drug me
>>out to my car and told me to leave and not come back. I dont
>>know how I got home because I was too drunk and injured to remember
>>what I was doing. Somehow I got home, and I have been sitting here
>>ever since wondering what I did that was so wrong to deserve that
>>treatment. Worse yet, I think I relapsed, even though I did not drink
>>the alcohol by choice, and almost drowned from it.
>>
>>It's 3am and I just called them later a little while ago to apologise.
>>They told me they were sleeping, and not to call again. I told them I
>>called to ralk, and must talk now. They also told me both my brother
>>and his wife were taken to the hospital in an ambulance, and both had
>>broken bones from my beating on them. I wanted to say I was sorry and
>>explain that I was only trying to save them from their alcoholism.
>>Instead I started to say "hi my name is......" when they hung
>>up one me. This upset me even more. Now I am not sure what to do.
>>Should I go back to detox or what? Should I call the police and tell
>>them that my relatives are drunk? I just dont know what to do.
>
>
> In 1978 or '79, my father offered us the use of a box at the Hollywood
> Bowl which he had access to through his employer, the Lloyd
> Corporation. So four of us planned to go to hear this concert --
> myself, my wife, a guy named Amos who was renting a room from us (fellow
> grad composition student), and his girfriend at the time, whose name I
> forget (some redhead pianist, something like "Kim"). I also forget what
> was on the concert. maybe Mahler. Amos had what you could politely call
> "personal problems," one being that his girlfriend was throwing herself
> physically at him. For some reason he found this very upsetting -- on
> the way home from the concert later that night, with them in the back
> seat, she lay down ansd wrapped her legs around him, and this noticeably
> shook him up -- "Oh GOD!" he called out, and put his hands to his face.
>
> Because he was so easily upset, especially when it involved this girl,
> he proceeded to drink six beers in 30 minutes while getting dressed. By
> the time we left, fifteen minutes after he finished his sixth beer, he
> was very drunk. We picked up his girlfriend, and also a bottle of wine,
> which they proceeded to drink up at the Bowl just before the concert.
> My wife and I were seated in front of them. I wasn't very optimistic
> about the situation, so I did my best to ignore them and pay attention
> to the music. They talked incessantly during all the music. The people
> to my right told them to shut up, but they kept on talking. During the
> second half, the Manager of the Bowl (!) came up to us and told them to
> shut up. And they kept right on talking.
>
> After the concert was over, Amos went up to the Bowl Manager and started
> to get belligerant. Suddenly he was at my side, saying, "We have to get
> out of here, NOW!!" I asked him what the hell was wrong with him. He
> said that he had threatened the Bowl Manager, and the guy had told him
> back that he could have him (Amos) killed any time he wantewd to. I'm
> thinking, "Amos you jerk, you got us in trouble with the goddamn Bowl
> staff!" Naturally we were never given the use of the box again.
>
> Absolutley a true story.
>
> Amos's drinking got worse, and he was a real sniveller when he was
> polluted. He also "borrowed" a couple of my albums (like my David
> Munrow set) and then denied he had them, and they never turned up
> again. We eventually asked him to move out, and he was crying the night
> he left for his folks' house (and my nephew came for a visit) -- he said
> his father would be mean to him or something (this guy was someting like
> 28 at the time). I had the tape running -- he was saying things like,
> "It's my party and I'll cry if I want to." And, "Oh God, can't I stay
> here a little longer??" No, we told him, he should go to his folks'
> house as he had planned to do. (He showed up uninvited a week later,
> still crying about how he had had to go to his folks' house that week,
> and demanding that my nephew sleep on the couch so he could have his old
> bed for the night.)
>
> Over the next few years he became a born-again Christian. Some ten
> years after he moved out of our place, he called us up and started
> beratng us because 9he said) we were alcoholics and out of control
> boozers and we had to to find Jesus and give up drinking like he had.
> My wife hung upon him and that was the last we heard from him.
>
> Musically, he wasn't very good. He came to insist that music had to be
> "justifiable," using things such as invertible counterpoint and regular
> harmonies, or it was no good. Hre dismissed the harmonies of Ives's 3rd
> Symphony as "being a blur" and had little to say that was good about my
> music. He has never taught music or had any job in music since college
> that we ever heard of.


I wonder what he thought / thinks about the counterpoint in Bach's
music; especially The Well Tempered Klavier.

Richard





>
> Well, here is a confession: Before he moved out, I looked for and made a
> xerox copy of a piece he had composed called "Grasshopper Concentration
> Moon," which involved a guy in a grassshopper suit playing an organ, and
> a leather-clad dominatrix torturing a guy bound in a chair, while Zappa
> music played over a radio. I had a feelng at the time that this piece
> of his was something I would want to archive. I still have it --
> somewhere. It had instructions, drawings, music, something he had
> seriously worked on and took seriously, but which he would he horrified
> for anyone to see today, because he's "born-again" and all.
>
> I think it's time for the world to see "Grasshopper Concentration Moon"
> in print....
>



--
"..A census taker once tried to test me. I ate his liver with some fava
beans and a nice chianti..."

Hannibal "The Cannibal"

Silence Of The Lambs 1991

why is anyone treating this seriously?! this is as crapful as AA.

On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 11:00:29 -0600, Katra >
wrote:

>I've always hated AA! They take you and strip you of your self esteem
>and make you feel like a worthless person, then try to build you up
>again. They propagate the myth that alcohol controls your life!

Ya know, I don't doubt that AA is helpful for some folks. Not everyone
is mature enough to make those tough decisions and stick to them long
enough to get over it.

Once upon a time, in my youth, I imbibed much more than would be
considered wise, appropriate, or healthy. Following those self-help
things, I would've tipped closer to alcholic than "ok". One night, had
a bender. Don't remember much of the evening, but the next day was
beyond nightmarish. Didn't touch another drop for a year or two...cuz
I didn't want to (I drink because I'm thirsty...bad idea when it's
alchohol, since that doesn't help matters there). Now? I'll have a
beer or two if I'm out, or some wine. Sometimes even some "real"
liquor. No biggie, and no 12-step stuff either.

Had a patient once, maybe 70ish. Forget why, but in history-taking,
asked about cigarettes and alcohol use. His answer? I haven't had
either in 35 years. I commented nicely about his healthy choice. His
answer? "I smoked like a chimney, easily 4 packs a day. I drank a
quart of vodka and a dozen beers a day. I did this for years. One day,
I was at work, and fell off a ladder 20 feet. Shattered my legs and
broke my pelvis. I was bedridden for 3 months. Well I had one strict
rule, all my life. No drinking in the bedroom, and no smoking in bed,
as a neighbor of mine had died in a fire under such circumstances. So,
for 3 months I couldn't have a smoke or a drink. People offered, but
it was against my rules. Now I have a beer on 4th of July. and a glass
of wine at Christmas and New Years...that's it. Just didn't have an
interest in them after I got back on my feet."

So, while AA may certainly be helpful for some, it's not a "magic
bullet" that works for all, or that even everyone "should" use.

The only real key thing with AA is the same with everything else. You
won't quit until you decide to.

Bob

In article >,
Katra > wrote:
>12 steps work ok... if you believe in god.
>What if you are an athiest? ;-)

The people who publish the Skeptical Enquirer (secular-humanist
activists; can't recall their organization's name right now)
used to offer a similar program that didn't proselytize.

Goggling for "Skeptical Enquirer" or "James Randi" might be a
good way to start looking, if anyone's interested. Me, I'm
going to have another cocktail.

[note followups]

--
Mark Shaw contact info at homepage --> http://www.panix.com/~mshaw
================================================== ======================
"The longer you go, the more the music gets into the walls."
-Muddy Waters

D.G. Porter wrote:

> It had instructions, drawings, music, something he had
> seriously worked on and took seriously, but which he would he horrified
> for anyone to see today, because he's "born-again" and all.
>
> I think it's time for the world to see "Grasshopper Concentration Moon"
> in print....
>


LOL!! Still upset about the David Munrow? What an evil idea - go for it :-)



--
Blessed Cecilia, appear in visions
To all musicians, appear and inspi
Translated Daughter, come down and startle
Composing mortals with immortal fire.