On Wed, 4 Nov 2009 13:56:19 -0000
"john royce" > wrote:

>
> When making casseroles in the microwave combination oven, I try to
> fill the oven right up; so as to be frugal with electricity.
>
> Although some casserole dishes come with lids, I find that these
> fairly close fitting lids usually create a build up of pressure and
> some of the liquid then squirts out, all over the place.
>
> To utilise all available oven space it means stacking two casserole
> dishes one on top of the other. Using a normal oven this would be
> simple to do (bearing in mind I'm not using lids) by using a metal
> rack on the lower one to support the upper one.
>
> But when using the combination feature (which I find usefully lessons
> the cooking time) both normal heating and microwave are used
> "together". So when the microwave is on, a metal rack cannot be used.
>
> We have been trying to think of a means of supporting one casserole
> dish on top of another one ( the top one usually a smaller diameter )
> by means of something that will tolerate microwaves and the hotter
> temperatures using the normal oven heating element. Does such a
> thing exist anywhere for this purpose, or what might be some neat way
> to solve this problem? Thanks for advice.
>

Let's get this straight... you are trying to think of a creative way to
save about .0000000000002 pennies worth of electricity? C'mon, be
serious now... is this a troll? -Dave

When making casseroles in the microwave combination oven, I try to fill the
oven right up; so as to be frugal with electricity.

Although some casserole dishes come with lids, I find that these fairly
close fitting lids usually create a build up of pressure and some of the
liquid then squirts out, all over the place.

To utilise all available oven space it means stacking two casserole dishes
one on top of the other. Using a normal oven this would be simple to do
(bearing in mind I'm not using lids) by using a metal rack on the lower one
to support the upper one.

But when using the combination feature (which I find usefully lessons the
cooking time) both normal heating and microwave are used "together". So when
the microwave is on, a metal rack cannot be used.

We have been trying to think of a means of supporting one casserole dish on
top of another one ( the top one usually a smaller diameter ) by means of
something that will tolerate microwaves and the hotter temperatures using
the normal oven heating element. Does such a thing exist anywhere for this
purpose, or what might be some neat way to solve this problem? Thanks for
advice.

john royce wrote:
> When making casseroles in the microwave combination oven, I try to
> fill the oven right up; so as to be frugal with electricity.
>
> Although some casserole dishes come with lids, I find that these
> fairly close fitting lids usually create a build up of pressure and
> some of the liquid then squirts out, all over the place.
>
> To utilise all available oven space it means stacking two casserole
> dishes one on top of the other. Using a normal oven this would be
> simple to do (bearing in mind I'm not using lids) by using a metal
> rack on the lower one to support the upper one.
>
> But when using the combination feature (which I find usefully lessons
> the cooking time) both normal heating and microwave are used
> "together". So when the microwave is on, a metal rack cannot be used.
>
> We have been trying to think of a means of supporting one casserole
> dish on top of another one ( the top one usually a smaller diameter )
> by means of something that will tolerate microwaves and the hotter
> temperatures using the normal oven heating element. Does such a
> thing exist anywhere for this purpose, or what might be some neat way
> to solve this problem? Thanks for advice.

Would it be possible to use the casserole lid but upside down, so that it
doesn't create the seal? Stand the top dish on the lid. Hopefully it would
give more stability that something flat.

john royce wrote:
> When making casseroles in the microwave combination oven, I try to fill the
> oven right up; so as to be frugal with electricity.
>
I can't muster up much concern over a penny worth of electricity for a
microwave. I just don't use it that way. How long do you have it running
that you feel you need to pack it full to make it most cost effective?
Does the quality of cooking suffer from being packed full?

john royce wrote:
> When making casseroles in the microwave combination oven, I try to fill the
> oven right up; so as to be frugal with electricity.
[snip]
> We have been trying to think of a means of supporting one casserole dish on
> top of another one ( the top one usually a smaller diameter ) by means of
> something that will tolerate microwaves and the hotter temperatures using
> the normal oven heating element. Does such a thing exist anywhere for this
> purpose, or what might be some neat way to solve this problem?

If I had to support one pot on top of the other, I'd probably just take
a couple of chopsticks out of the drawer, lay them across the lower pot,
and sit the upper pot on top.

Have I missed something?

Pete

"Owain" > wrote in message
...
On 4 Nov, 13:56, "john royce" wrote:
> We have been trying to think of a means of supporting one casserole dish
> on
> top of another one ( the top one usually a smaller diameter ) by means of
> something that will tolerate microwaves and the hotter temperatures using
> the normal oven heating element. Does such a thing exist anywhere for this
> purpose, or what might be some neat way to solve this problem? Thanks for
> advice.

Could you make a rack out of chopsticks across the lower casserole?

You could also put the chopsticks across the casserole before putting
the lid on top.
Owain

Thanks to the sensible responses. The glass casserole dishes are so well
made that the lids are too closely fitting even when placed upside down.
Using the oven eating element easily brings the temperature up to where the
wood (chopsticks) cannot cope with it.

In article >,
"john royce" > wrote:

> When making casseroles in the microwave combination oven, I try to fill the
> oven right up; so as to be frugal with electricity.

How full are we talking here? You need some space in there for heat
circulation.

> Although some casserole dishes come with lids, I find that these fairly
> close fitting lids usually create a build up of pressure and some of the
> liquid then squirts out, all over the place.

A build-up of pressure? That's a new one to me. Are you sure it's just
not the contents of the casserole bubbling due to the cooking?
>
> To utilise all available oven space it means stacking two casserole dishes
> one on top of the other. Using a normal oven this would be simple to do
> (bearing in mind I'm not using lids) by using a metal rack on the lower one
> to support the upper one.
>
> But when using the combination feature (which I find usefully lessons the
> cooking time) both normal heating and microwave are used "together". So when
> the microwave is on, a metal rack cannot be used.

My microwave came with a metal rack. . . .

> We have been trying to think of a means of supporting one casserole dish on
> top of another one ( the top one usually a smaller diameter ) by means of
> something that will tolerate microwaves and the hotter temperatures using
> the normal oven heating element. Does such a thing exist anywhere for this
> purpose, or what might be some neat way to solve this problem? Thanks for
> advice.

Invert a pie place over the bottom one and don't fill the bottom
casserole so full that it will bubble over. Set your second casserole
on top of the inverted pie plate.

PS: I am not responsible for any burns you may incur, nor any mess, nor
any bad language.

Alternatively, get a pizza stone, the right drill bit, and drill holes
in it ‹ the DIY rack you seek.
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://web.me.com/barbschaller - Who Said Chickens Have Fingers?
10-30-2009

john royce wrote:
> "Owain" > wrote in message
> ...
> On 4 Nov, 13:56, "john royce" wrote:
>> We have been trying to think of a means of supporting one casserole dish
>> on
>> top of another one ( the top one usually a smaller diameter ) by means of
>> something that will tolerate microwaves and the hotter temperatures using
>> the normal oven heating element. Does such a thing exist anywhere for this
>> purpose, or what might be some neat way to solve this problem? Thanks for
>> advice.
>
> Could you make a rack out of chopsticks across the lower casserole?
>
> You could also put the chopsticks across the casserole before putting
> the lid on top.
> Owain
>
> Thanks to the sensible responses. The glass casserole dishes are so well
> made that the lids are too closely fitting even when placed upside down.
> Using the oven eating element easily brings the temperature up to where the
> wood (chopsticks) cannot cope with it.
>
>
what about the bottom of one of those chinese bamboo steamers which are
a grid of bamboo sticks?

These are pretty cheap, or you could use the lid of a microwave streamer
as sold by matalan.

dedics

"john royce" wrote in message
>
> We have been trying to think of a means of supporting one casserole dish
> on top of another one ( the top one usually a smaller diameter ) by means
> of something that will tolerate microwaves and the hotter temperatures
> using the normal oven heating element. Does such a thing exist anywhere
> for this purpose, or what might be some neat way to solve this problem?
>

It would need to be something which does not conduct electricity - non
metal. Maybe you could find something like a cookie sheet for a regular oven
which is non metal and cut it to size, then support it with glass supports
at each corner. Or maybe a "glass blower" person could design something for
you?

Maybe even "glass rods" made into a rack with supports like a metal rack?

As to saving pennies or fractions thereof, if people would learn to add,
they would know that pennies add up to dollars! That is why my electric bill
will be $28 U.S. this month. Many things I have done to my electric system
which save pennies!

Melba's Jammin' wrote:
> In article >,
> "john royce" > wrote:
>
>> But when using the combination feature (which I find usefully lessons the
>> cooking time) both normal heating and microwave are used "together". So when
>> the microwave is on, a metal rack cannot be used.
>
> My microwave came with a metal rack. . . .

Yeah, not sure what the whole deal is with metal and microwave ovens -
ours also came with two metal racks of different heights intended
(mainly) for combination-cooking of baked potatoes; ie micro first, then
direct heat to brown/crispen them.

I don't know whether the issue is that metal can become
disproportionately hot with microwaves only, thereby maybe melting a
plastic bowl or burning the unwary user?

Then again, the legs of our racks even have little rubber feet! so don't
ask me.

David

On Wed, 4 Nov 2009, Dave C. wrote:

> On Wed, 4 Nov 2009 13:56:19 -0000
> "john royce" > wrote:
>
>>
>> When making casseroles in the microwave combination oven, I try to
>> fill the oven right up; so as to be frugal with electricity.
>>
>> Although some casserole dishes come with lids, I find that these
>> fairly close fitting lids usually create a build up of pressure and
>> some of the liquid then squirts out, all over the place.
>>
>> To utilise all available oven space it means stacking two casserole
>> dishes one on top of the other. Using a normal oven this would be
>> simple to do (bearing in mind I'm not using lids) by using a metal
>> rack on the lower one to support the upper one.
>>
>> But when using the combination feature (which I find usefully lessons
>> the cooking time) both normal heating and microwave are used
>> "together". So when the microwave is on, a metal rack cannot be used.
>>
>> We have been trying to think of a means of supporting one casserole
>> dish on top of another one ( the top one usually a smaller diameter )
>> by means of something that will tolerate microwaves and the hotter
>> temperatures using the normal oven heating element. Does such a
>> thing exist anywhere for this purpose, or what might be some neat way
>> to solve this problem? Thanks for advice.
>>
>
> Let's get this straight... you are trying to think of a creative way to
> save about .0000000000002 pennies worth of electricity? C'mon, be
> serious now... is this a troll? -Dave
>
No, problem solving can be cheap.

But in the original question, there is the assumption that filling the
microwave saves money. I'm not so sure, since the more you put in, the
longer it takes to heat up, and hence electricity use increases. The
advantage of smaller portions at a time is that you can better control how
it cooks, and it's certainly easier to open the door, take the lid off one
package and stir (when stirring is needed) than to deal with a full oven.

So in order for the need for some sort of rack, one first has to see if
there really is a savings from filling up that microwave, or is it
basically the same electricity useage cooking things separately.

Michael

john royce wrote:
> When making casseroles in the microwave combination oven, I try to fill the
> oven right up; so as to be frugal with electricity.

You'd probabaly save more energy by cooking several small casseroles
separately... it's not energy efficient to over fill either type of
oven.

Depends on whether the oven is set to microwave, conventional, or a
combination of both. Not knowing your appliance you're asking in the
wrong place, call the manufacturer's help line. It is my
understanding of such ovens, that they don't require preheating, that
the conventional mode is more for browning than cooking. If your unit
also has a convection feature that can change the equation
drastically. It's best you read your owner's manual, and contact the
manufacturer with additional questions.

But the following holds true regardless:

The energy consumed for microwave cooking is dependant on the mass of
that which is being cooked regardless how little or how much food is
cooked at one time... the more mass the longer the cooking time
needed... with microwave cooking it's not possible to save energy by
cooking more food at one time because the more mass the longer the
cooking time needed... the same time is required per potato if one
potato is cooked at a time or six potatoes are cooked at one time, in
either case the cooking time is multiplied by the number of potatoes
and therefore the same amount of energy is consumed per potato whether
cooked all at once or one at a time. But over loading will cause all
the potatoes to cook inefficiently; some will over cook while others
undercook while others partially cook.

With conventional oven cooking the length of time needed is the same
regardless of mass, cooking time is the same for one potato or six
potatoes. A conventional oven can save energy by cooking more food at
the same time because the cooking time does not change. Microwave
ovens can only save energy when cooking small quantities... at some
point as the quantity of food increases a different method of cooking
is required to save energy, and time. There are other factors to
consider too, such as the composition of foods, fatty foods cook
quicker with microwaves... but all things being equal a microwave
cannot save energy by cramming it full because that simply increases
the cooking time... and lowers teh efficiency which can result in
improperly cooked foods.

Folks with an IQ should realize that appliance manufacturers know this
by comparing the volume of conventional ovens to microwave ovens... if
cramming a microwave saved energy than they would be made with at
least twice the volume of conventional ovens rather than the other way
around.

Microwave ovens waste energy by over filling the same way that
conventional ovens waste energy by underfilling... both circumstances
are equally inefficient.

On Wed, 4 Nov 2009 06:32:26 -0800, "Bill" > wrote:

>As to saving pennies or fractions thereof, if people would learn to add,
>they would know that pennies add up to dollars! That is why my electric bill
>will be $28 U.S. this month. Many things I have done to my electric system
>which save pennies!

And a KW costs what exactly ?

Andy C

On Wed, 4 Nov 2009 10:13:30 +0800, "Dave C." >
wrote:

>Let's get this straight... you are trying to think of a creative way to
>save about .0000000000002 pennies worth of electricity? C'mon, be
>serious now... is this a troll? -Dave

These nut cases appear every so often. To store all of those
casseroles, he needs a large freezer... when the freezer is empty,
he's wasting electricity. It's a cycle he hasn't give much thought
to. Being frugal doesn't mean being cheap, it just means don't waste.
However, he's taking the concept to the point of being a cheapskate.
I wonder if he reuses toilet paper?

--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

"john royce" > wrote in message
...
<snip>
> Could you make a rack out of chopsticks across the lower casserole?
>
> You could also put the chopsticks across the casserole before putting
> the lid on top.
> Owain
>
> Thanks to the sensible responses. The glass casserole dishes are so well
> made that the lids are too closely fitting even when placed upside down.
> Using the oven eating element easily brings the temperature up to where
> the wood (chopsticks) cannot cope with it.

From http://www.economy-point.org/i/ignit...mperature.html
"Ignition temperature of some solids:
Solid Ignition temperature in "°C
Fir wood 280
Wood 280-340
Cork 300-320"

A normal convection oven should not go above 250C so bamboo is unlikely to
catch fire - especially as it is over food which is cooking and therfore
giving off steam.

How do you expect the chopsticks not to cope?

If you are worried you could always soak them in water first.

On Wed, 4 Nov 2009 13:56:19 -0000, "john royce"
> wrote:

So after throwing a snotty fit and not thanking anyone in your sausage
query thread you now come back to RFC and ask more stupid questions?
GFY!

Lou

Michael Black wrote:
> On Wed, 4 Nov 2009, Dave C. wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 4 Nov 2009 13:56:19 -0000
>> "john royce" > wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> When making casseroles in the microwave combination oven, I try to
>>> fill the oven right up; so as to be frugal with electricity.
>>>
>>> Although some casserole dishes come with lids, I find that these
>>> fairly close fitting lids usually create a build up of pressure and
>>> some of the liquid then squirts out, all over the place.
>>>
>>> To utilise all available oven space it means stacking two casserole
>>> dishes one on top of the other. Using a normal oven this would be
>>> simple to do (bearing in mind I'm not using lids) by using a metal
>>> rack on the lower one to support the upper one.
>>>
>>> But when using the combination feature (which I find usefully
>>> lessons the cooking time) both normal heating and microwave are used
>>> "together". So when the microwave is on, a metal rack cannot be
>>> used. We have been trying to think of a means of supporting one casserole
>>> dish on top of another one ( the top one usually a smaller diameter
>>> ) by means of something that will tolerate microwaves and the hotter
>>> temperatures using the normal oven heating element. Does such a
>>> thing exist anywhere for this purpose, or what might be some neat
>>> way to solve this problem? Thanks for advice.
>>>
>>
>> Let's get this straight... you are trying to think of a creative way
>> to save about .0000000000002 pennies worth of electricity? C'mon, be
>> serious now... is this a troll? -Dave
>>
> No, problem solving can be cheap.
>
> But in the original question, there is the assumption that filling the
> microwave saves money. I'm not so sure, since the more you put in,
> the longer it takes to heat up, and hence electricity use increases.

Full does however reduce the inevitable losses, most obviously
heating the oven itself, particularly if he uses the convention
part at all, but even if he only uses it in microwave mode.

> The advantage of smaller portions at a time is that you can better
> control how it cooks, and it's certainly easier to open the door,
> take the lid off one package and stir (when stirring is needed) than
> to deal with a full oven.

Yes. But if you are into documenting the batches properly,
you should be able to get the detail right so you dont need
to inspect and adjust with the later batches with most food.

> So in order for the need for some sort of rack, one first has to see
> if there really is a savings from filling up that microwave, or is it
> basically the same electricity useage cooking things separately.

Thats unlikely.

sf wrote:
> On Wed, 4 Nov 2009 10:13:30 +0800, "Dave C." >
> wrote:
>
>> Let's get this straight... you are trying to think of a creative way
>> to save about .0000000000002 pennies worth of electricity? C'mon, be
>> serious now... is this a troll? -Dave
>
> These nut cases appear every so often. To store all of those
> casseroles, he needs a large freezer... when the freezer is empty,
> he's wasting electricity. It's a cycle he hasn't give much thought
> to. Being frugal doesn't mean being cheap, it just means don't waste.
> However, he's taking the concept to the point of being a cheapskate.
> I wonder if he reuses toilet paper?

I thought many things about his post, but I decided to answer the question
that was asked.

john royce wrote:
> When making casseroles in the microwave combination oven, I try to
> fill the oven right up; so as to be frugal with electricity.
>
> Although some casserole dishes come with lids, I find that these
> fairly close fitting lids usually create a build up of pressure and
> some of the liquid then squirts out, all over the place.
>
> To utilise all available oven space it means stacking two casserole
> dishes one on top of the other. Using a normal oven this would be
> simple to do (bearing in mind I'm not using lids) by using a metal
> rack on the lower one to support the upper one.
>
> But when using the combination feature (which I find usefully lessons
> the cooking time) both normal heating and microwave are used
> "together". So when the microwave is on, a metal rack cannot be used.
>
> We have been trying to think of a means of supporting one casserole
> dish on top of another one ( the top one usually a smaller diameter )
> by means of something that will tolerate microwaves and the hotter
> temperatures using the normal oven heating element. Does such a
> thing exist anywhere for this purpose, or what might be some neat way
> to solve this problem? Thanks for advice.

Go to a cheapo tile shop, or even hardware store, and get appropriate size large
ceramic floor tiles to separate/stack the dishes.

On Nov 4, 1:56*pm, "john royce" > wrote:
> When making casseroles in the microwave combination oven, I try to fill the
> oven right up; *so as to be frugal with electricity.
>
> Although some casserole dishes come with lids, I find that these fairly
> close fitting lids usually create a build up of pressure and some of the
> liquid then squirts out, all over the place.
>
> To utilise all available oven space it means stacking two casserole dishes
> one on top of the other. *Using a normal oven this would be simple to do
> (bearing in mind I'm not using lids) *by using a metal rack on the lower one
> to support the upper one.
>
> But when using the combination feature (which I find usefully lessons the
> cooking time) both normal heating and microwave are used "together". So when
> the microwave is on, *a metal rack cannot be used.
>
> We have been trying to think of a means of supporting one casserole dish on
> top of another one ( the top one usually a smaller diameter ) by means of
> something that will tolerate microwaves and the hotter temperatures using
> the normal oven heating element. *Does such a thing exist anywhere for this
> purpose, or what might be some neat way to solve this problem? * Thanks for
> advice.


Save far more money by tweaking recipes so very little of the
ingredietns even need heating, let alone cooking. Saves lots of time
too.


NT

"john royce" > wrote in message
...
>
> When making casseroles in the microwave combination oven, I try to fill
> the oven right up; so as to be frugal with electricity.
>
> Although some casserole dishes come with lids, I find that these fairly
> close fitting lids usually create a build up of pressure and some of the
> liquid then squirts out, all over the place.
>
> To utilise all available oven space it means stacking two casserole dishes
> one on top of the other. Using a normal oven this would be simple to do
> (bearing in mind I'm not using lids) by using a metal rack on the lower
> one
> to support the upper one.
>
> But when using the combination feature (which I find usefully lessons the
> cooking time) both normal heating and microwave are used "together". So
> when the microwave is on, a metal rack cannot be used.
>
> We have been trying to think of a means of supporting one casserole dish
> on top of another one ( the top one usually a smaller diameter ) by means
> of something that will tolerate microwaves and the hotter temperatures
> using the normal oven heating element. Does such a thing exist anywhere
> for this purpose, or what might be some neat way to solve this problem?
> Thanks for advice.
>
>
>

Wooden sticks might have to soak in water?

Robert

"Bob F" > wrote in message
...

> Go to a cheapo tile shop, or even hardware store, and get appropriate size
> large ceramic floor tiles to separate/stack the dishes.

This is **food** we're talking about here - whatever you use, if it has a
chance of coming into contact with food, should be food grade.

john royce wrote:
> When making casseroles in the microwave combination oven, I try to fill the
> oven right up; so as to be frugal with electricity.
>
> Although some casserole dishes come with lids, I find that these fairly
> close fitting lids usually create a build up of pressure and some of the
> liquid then squirts out, all over the place.
>
> To utilise all available oven space it means stacking two casserole dishes
> one on top of the other. Using a normal oven this would be simple to do
> (bearing in mind I'm not using lids) by using a metal rack on the lower one
> to support the upper one.
>
> But when using the combination feature (which I find usefully lessons the
> cooking time) both normal heating and microwave are used "together". So when
> the microwave is on, a metal rack cannot be used.
>
> We have been trying to think of a means of supporting one casserole dish on
> top of another one ( the top one usually a smaller diameter ) by means of
> something that will tolerate microwaves and the hotter temperatures using
> the normal oven heating element. Does such a thing exist anywhere for this
> purpose, or what might be some neat way to solve this problem? Thanks for
> advice.
>
>
>


Wooden dowels? Plastic replicas of wooden spoons?
Small wood strips set in a diagonal pattern (like a garden trellis)?

The only options are wood, plastic, or ceramic, no?


gloria p

On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 14:30:58 +0000, Ian & Hilda Dedic wrote:

> john royce wrote:
>> "Owain" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> On 4 Nov, 13:56, "john royce" wrote:
>>> We have been trying to think of a means of supporting one casserole dish
>>> on
>>> top of another one ( the top one usually a smaller diameter ) by means of
>>> something that will tolerate microwaves and the hotter temperatures using
>>> the normal oven heating element. Does such a thing exist anywhere for this
>>> purpose, or what might be some neat way to solve this problem? Thanks for
>>> advice.
>>
>> Could you make a rack out of chopsticks across the lower casserole?
>>
>> You could also put the chopsticks across the casserole before putting
>> the lid on top.
>> Owain
>>
>> Thanks to the sensible responses. The glass casserole dishes are so well
>> made that the lids are too closely fitting even when placed upside down.
>> Using the oven eating element easily brings the temperature up to where the
>> wood (chopsticks) cannot cope with it.
>>
>>
> what about the bottom of one of those chinese bamboo steamers which are
> a grid of bamboo sticks?
>
> These are pretty cheap, or you could use the lid of a microwave streamer
> as sold by matalan.
>
> dedics

You should actually be able to use metal skewers instead of chopsticks. As
long as the gap between them both and between them and the metal walls is
large enough, they will not spark and will have little effect on heating.

Oddly enough, our first microwave (a Tricity combination oven fifteen years
ago) had a metal rack and specifically mentioned that it was okay to use it
for combination cooking - I can only think that thanks to the glass
turntable, it was held far enough away from the metal casing.

SteveW

On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 14:41:33 +0000, Lobster wrote:

> Melba's Jammin' wrote:
>> In article >,
>> "john royce" > wrote:
>>
>>> But when using the combination feature (which I find usefully lessons the
>>> cooking time) both normal heating and microwave are used "together". So when
>>> the microwave is on, a metal rack cannot be used.
>>
>> My microwave came with a metal rack. . . .
>
> Yeah, not sure what the whole deal is with metal and microwave ovens -
> ours also came with two metal racks of different heights intended
> (mainly) for combination-cooking of baked potatoes; ie micro first, then
> direct heat to brown/crispen them.
>
> I don't know whether the issue is that metal can become
> disproportionately hot with microwaves only, thereby maybe melting a
> plastic bowl or burning the unwary user?
>
> Then again, the legs of our racks even have little rubber feet! so don't
> ask me.
>
> David

The metal racks do not become hot from the microwaves, but in early
microwaves that didn't use turntables or steer the microwaves, all the
microwaves would come from one direction and bounce around until absorbed
and the metal racks could shield the food preventing it cooking properly.
Also if any metal in the microwave comes close enough to any other metal,
the gap between them will spark madly.

SteveW

"gloria.p" > wrote in message
...
> john royce wrote:
>> When making casseroles in the microwave combination oven, I try to fill
>> the oven right up; so as to be frugal with electricity.
>>
>> Although some casserole dishes come with lids, I find that these fairly
>> close fitting lids usually create a build up of pressure and some of the
>> liquid then squirts out, all over the place.
>>
>> To utilise all available oven space it means stacking two casserole
>> dishes
>> one on top of the other. Using a normal oven this would be simple to do
>> (bearing in mind I'm not using lids) by using a metal rack on the lower
>> one
>> to support the upper one.
>>
>> But when using the combination feature (which I find usefully lessons the
>> cooking time) both normal heating and microwave are used "together". So
>> when the microwave is on, a metal rack cannot be used.
>>
>> We have been trying to think of a means of supporting one casserole dish
>> on top of another one ( the top one usually a smaller diameter ) by means
>> of something that will tolerate microwaves and the hotter temperatures
>> using the normal oven heating element. Does such a thing exist anywhere
>> for this purpose, or what might be some neat way to solve this problem?
>> Thanks for advice.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> Wooden dowels? Plastic replicas of wooden spoons?
> Small wood strips set in a diagonal pattern (like a garden trellis)?
>
> The only options are wood, plastic, or ceramic, no?
>
>
> gloria p

Glass!

Robert

john royce > wrote:


> We have been trying to think of a means of supporting one casserole dish on
> top of another one ( the top one usually a smaller diameter ) by means of
> something that will tolerate microwaves

We use one of these:

http://tinyurl.com/yzlet9o

It works fine with microwaveable/ceramic containers and fits neatly over
a plate so you can, for example reheat a meal and cook something else at
the same time. It wouldn't work if you used those microwave containers
designed to "brown" food because they get extremely hot.

> and the hotter temperatures using the normal oven heating element. Does
> such a thing exist anywhere for this purpose, or what might be some neat
> way to solve this problem? Thanks for advice.

Out microwave was supplied with two wire racks that permit food to be
stacked when using it as a combination oven. Although chrome plated wire
they don't "spark" in the microwave. So umm, I'd say check what comes
with the next microwave that you buy. Some of them are better for that
sort of stuff than others.

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "john royce"
> saying something like:

>We have been trying to think of a means of supporting one casserole dish on
>top of another one ( the top one usually a smaller diameter ) by means of
>something that will tolerate microwaves and the hotter temperatures using
>the normal oven heating element. Does such a thing exist anywhere for this
>purpose, or what might be some neat way to solve this problem? Thanks for
>advice.

Pyrex casserole dish lid, turned upside down, is just the thing.

On Nov 4, 8:56 am, "john royce" > wrote:
> When making casseroles in the microwave combination oven, I try to fill the
> oven right up; so as to be frugal with electricity.
>
> Although some casserole dishes come with lids, I find that these fairly
> close fitting lids usually create a build up of pressure and some of the
> liquid then squirts out, all over the place.
>
> To utilise all available oven space it means stacking two casserole dishes
> one on top of the other. Using a normal oven this would be simple to do
> (bearing in mind I'm not using lids) by using a metal rack on the lower one
> to support the upper one.
>
> But when using the combination feature (which I find usefully lessons the
> cooking time) both normal heating and microwave are used "together". So when
> the microwave is on, a metal rack cannot be used.
>
> We have been trying to think of a means of supporting one casserole dish on
> top of another one ( the top one usually a smaller diameter ) by means of
> something that will tolerate microwaves and the hotter temperatures using
> the normal oven heating element. Does such a thing exist anywhere for this
> purpose, or what might be some neat way to solve this problem? Thanks for
> advice.

You will save exactly nothing.
The MW puts out so many BTUs and that is absorbed by the food. Two
cups of water will take twice as long to boil because it takes twice
as many BTUs to raise the temperature the the boiling point. The same
principle applies to your plan to put piles of food in the oven. Two
equal piles will take twice as long to cook and it won't cook as
evenly either when the food is crowded together.
Time to rethink your cunning plan. I use two different microwaves on
two different circuits.

Al wrote:
<>
> You will save exactly nothing.
> The MW puts out so many BTUs and that is absorbed by the food. Two
> cups of water will take twice as long to boil because it takes twice
> as many BTUs to raise the temperature the the boiling point. The same
> principle applies to your plan to put piles of food in the oven. Two
> equal piles will take twice as long to cook and it won't cook as
> evenly either when the food is crowded together.
> Time to rethink your cunning plan. I use two different microwaves on
> two different circuits.

Agreed. But the OP later wrote:

"Using the oven eating element easily brings the temperature up to where
the wood (chopsticks) cannot cope with it."

Which seems to question just what the OP is doing. Using microwave
heating, using element heating, or both?

And if he really wants to minimise electricity usage perhaps a hay box
would help?

--
Rod

On Nov 4, 5:32 pm, Rod > wrote:
> Al wrote:
>
> <>
>
> > You will save exactly nothing.
> > The MW puts out so many BTUs and that is absorbed by the food. Two
> > cups of water will take twice as long to boil because it takes twice
> > as many BTUs to raise the temperature the the boiling point. The same
> > principle applies to your plan to put piles of food in the oven. Two
> > equal piles will take twice as long to cook and it won't cook as
> > evenly either when the food is crowded together.
> > Time to rethink your cunning plan. I use two different microwaves on
> > two different circuits.
>
> Agreed. But the OP later wrote:
>
> "Using the oven eating element easily brings the temperature up to where
> the wood (chopsticks) cannot cope with it."
>
> Which seems to question just what the OP is doing. Using microwave
> heating, using element heating, or both?
>
> And if he really wants to minimise electricity usage perhaps a hay box
> would help?
>
> --
> Rod

He could save electricity by cutting vent holes in the top and using
all those sticks for kindling under the food. In other words, use the
oven like a hibachi. There's plenty of sticks lying about in this
season. Do this outside though for safety reasons. Also, this may
void the warranty on your microwave.

"sf" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 4 Nov 2009 10:13:30 +0800, "Dave C." >
> wrote:
>
>>Let's get this straight... you are trying to think of a creative way to
>>save about .0000000000002 pennies worth of electricity? C'mon, be
>>serious now... is this a troll? -Dave
>
> These nut cases appear every so often. To store all of those
> casseroles, he needs a large freezer... when the freezer is empty,
> he's wasting electricity. It's a cycle he hasn't give much thought
> to. Being frugal doesn't mean being cheap, it just means don't waste.
> However, he's taking the concept to the point of being a cheapskate.
> I wonder if he reuses toilet paper?

Some people are so *opinionated* dont you think? The original question was
not 'just' about saving money, (which if you are not a merkin, might
actually have consequences) sometimes its just more convenient to cook as
much as a microwave will take; which often is not all that much anyway.

Our cooking rarely if ever gets frozen, so why introduce to others such
aspects as this that your over active mind uneccesarily produces? You
readily call someone else a nutcase for asking a valid food related
question, but empty vessals make the most noise, and you certainly qualify
wouldn't you say? Its always a big problem in (therapy) groups that the
shallow and opionated want to *hog* everything. when two or more empty
vessals start talking to each other they succeed and then spoil the
newsgroup for others. Why dont you look at yourself?

"Al" > wrote in message
...
> On Nov 4, 5:32 pm, Rod > wrote:
>> Al wrote:
>>
>> <>
>>
>> > You will save exactly nothing.
>> > The MW puts out so many BTUs and that is absorbed by the food. Two
>> > cups of water will take twice as long to boil because it takes twice
>> > as many BTUs to raise the temperature the the boiling point. The same
>> > principle applies to your plan to put piles of food in the oven. Two
>> > equal piles will take twice as long to cook and it won't cook as
>> > evenly either when the food is crowded together.
>> > Time to rethink your cunning plan. I use two different microwaves on
>> > two different circuits.
>>
>> Agreed. But the OP later wrote:
>>
>> "Using the oven eating element easily brings the temperature up to where
>> the wood (chopsticks) cannot cope with it."
>>
>> Which seems to question just what the OP is doing. Using microwave
>> heating, using element heating, or both?
>>
>> And if he really wants to minimise electricity usage perhaps a hay box
>> would help?
>> Rod

Thanks to all (except the couple of empty vessals who waste everyones time).
To answer some general points: this oven uses both microwave and heating
element both at the same time. Our instruction manual specifically say not
to use any metal. Once I put in a plate that had a gold glazed rim and it
started sparking like crazy. Its not just about economy, the microwave is
not so big; so to fill it up is more convenient. Upturned lids are so close
fitting that pressure builds up and liquid squirts out, so thats a no go.

Grateful especially for the information about the ignition temperatures of
wood. Mistakely I assumed that the higher temperatures produced by the
heating element would cause the wood to catch fire. This information has
now solved this issue since I can easily make something out of some strips
of hardwood. Thanks.

"john royce" > wrote in message
...
>
(snipped)
> Grateful especially for the information about the ignition temperatures of
> wood. Mistakely I assumed that the higher temperatures produced by the
> heating element would cause the wood to catch fire. This information has
> now solved this issue since I can easily make something out of some strips
> of hardwood. Thanks.

Just a note of (possibly excessive) caution here. Back in the 1970's energy
crisis, a lot of people tried home heating with wood burning stoves. At the
time, I read that the ignition temperature of wood can be drastically
lowered by long-term exposure to elevated temperatures - in extreme cases,
ignition temperature can be lower than the boiling point of water.

The article was in connection with placing a wood-burner an adequate
distance from walls and furniture for safety. I don't know how accurate
that information is, but if your wood rack will be exposed to elevated oven
temperatures over a period of years, this may apply to you as well.

On Thu, 5 Nov 2009 11:39:21 -0000, "john royce"
> wrote:

>Some people are so *opinionated* dont you think? The original question was
>not 'just' about saving money, (which if you are not a merkin, might
>actually have consequences) sometimes its just more convenient to cook as
>much as a microwave will take; which often is not all that much anyway.

John, your message was lost after "merkin". Lose that word and you'll
be listened to more closely.

--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

john royce wrote:

> Some people are so *opinionated* dont you think? The original question was
> not 'just' about saving money, (which if you are not a merkin, might
> actually have consequences) sometimes its just more convenient to cook as
> much as a microwave will take; which often is not all that much anyway.
>
> Our cooking rarely if ever gets frozen, so why introduce to others such
> aspects as this that your over active mind uneccesarily produces? You
> readily call someone else a nutcase for asking a valid food related
> question, but empty vessals make the most noise, and you certainly qualify
> wouldn't you say? Its always a big problem in (therapy) groups that the
> shallow and opionated want to *hog* everything. when two or more empty
> vessals start talking to each other they succeed and then spoil the
> newsgroup for others. Why dont you look at yourself?
>

oh you're gonna fit right in with AmandaF/Mandy Ruby. You both sound
like twits.

In article

>,
"john royce" >
wrote:

> "sf" > wrote in message
> ...
> > On Wed, 4 Nov 2009 10:13:30 +0800, "Dave C." >
> > wrote:
> >
> >>Let's get this straight... you are trying to think of a creative way to
> >>save about .0000000000002 pennies worth of electricity? C'mon, be
> >>serious now... is this a troll? -Dave
> >
> > These nut cases appear every so often. To store all of those
> > casseroles, he needs a large freezer... when the freezer is empty,
> > he's wasting electricity. It's a cycle he hasn't give much thought
> > to. Being frugal doesn't mean being cheap, it just means don't waste.
> > However, he's taking the concept to the point of being a cheapskate.
> > I wonder if he reuses toilet paper?
>
> Some people are so *opinionated* dont you think? The original question was
> not 'just' about saving money, (which if you are not a merkin, might
> actually have consequences) sometimes its just more convenient to cook as
> much as a microwave will take; which often is not all that much anyway.
>
> Our cooking rarely if ever gets frozen, so why introduce to others such
> aspects as this that your over active mind uneccesarily produces? You
> readily call someone else a nutcase for asking a valid food related
> question, but empty vessals make the most noise, and you certainly qualify
> wouldn't you say? Its always a big problem in (therapy) groups that the
> shallow and opionated want to *hog* everything. when two or more empty
> vessals start talking to each other they succeed and then spoil the
> newsgroup for others. Why dont you look at yourself?

I'd suggest you ask your question in

rec.food.cooking
rec.food.equipment

or if it's that important, try to find a
bigger microwave/combo unit

or why aren't you just using a
regular/convection unit

(btw I actually don't have a full sized
one but use a counter-top
convection/toaster unit for lots of my
meals. I also have an advantium
microwave/convection oven but I don't
really like it and am hoping to switch
it out for a full sized convection oven)

Lou wrote:
> "Bob F" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> Go to a cheapo tile shop, or even hardware store, and get
>> appropriate size large ceramic floor tiles to separate/stack the
>> dishes.
>
> This is **food** we're talking about here - whatever you use, if it
> has a chance of coming into contact with food, should be food grade.

Ceramic tile is used all the time for kitchen counters.

And it's just separating the dishes. Probably not even touching the food.

Bob F wrote:
> Lou wrote:
>> "Bob F" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>> Go to a cheapo tile shop, or even hardware store, and get
>>> appropriate size large ceramic floor tiles to separate/stack the
>>> dishes.
>>
>> This is **food** we're talking about here - whatever you use, if it
>> has a chance of coming into contact with food, should be food grade.
>
> Ceramic tile is used all the time for kitchen counters.
>
> And it's just separating the dishes. Probably not even touching the food.

Makes more sense to use ceramic plates etc instead of tiles.

I use those Corelle plates for that, works fine in both a combo oven and pure oven of either type.

On Nov 5, 3:47 pm, (spendwize.com)
wrote:
> Piling one dish upon another is going to alter the way the mocrowave heats
> both dishes! The waves are going through double densities. So whatever you
> think you are saving, you are probably spending in needing to heat longer.
> If you want to cover a dish withour the top "exploding" just don't civer
> it tightly; leave a little open space for the steam to escape.
> xxxxo

Please don't bother the OP with technical facts about how microwaves
work. HE/she would rather experiment with putting wood and other
objects into a device designed to cook food in certain reasonable
portions. I hope it works out for the OP. I would add in passing that
some of the off-gassing from putting objects not designed for
microwave cooking into such ovens can cause health problems, but what
the hell!