I'm an American who is visiting Serbia, and though it may seem a bit
backwards at times, the food is excellent.

All food seems to be locally grown, and Serbian farms are small
independent operations, unlike the corporate megafarms in America.

As a result, the food is extremely fresh and so much flavorful than
the genetically-engineered, chemically-fertilized, hormone-injected
stuff we eat in the United States.

At first I thought the prices seemed a bit high, but that is because
small farms lack the 'efficiency' of megafarms. The higher (actually
still lower than U.S.) price includes QUALITY, something that American
megafarms have lost in the race for maximum production.

Unfortunately, Serbia is trying to 'modernize,' and this means that
soon its agricultural industry will be destroyed as Mosanto, ADM, and
Wal-Mart take over the country.

Serbia might join the EU eventually, but EU regulations impose strict
regulations on agricultural operations. For example, the EU requires
that all dairy farms have a minimum of 40 cows, which conflicts with
Serbian herd sizes of about a dozen.

I suspect that in about ten years all Serbian food will be produced by
Mosanto, and become as tasteless and unhealthy as U.S. 'food.'

"Dänk 1010011010" ha scritto nel messaggio

> I'm an American who is visiting Serbia, and though it >may seem a bit
> backwards at times, the food is >excellent.

Well, yeah, they are only a decade or so from genetic cleansing and the US
is 150 years past hers.

> All food seems to be locally grown, and Serbian farms >are small>
> independent operations, unlike the corporate >megafarms in America.
>

You are having an emotional response to something you only partially
understand. If you want to eat locally, without chemicals and no genetic
alteration, you can. You just have to pay for it. Cheap food means super
efficiency and underpaid seasonal workers. In other words it means the
panoply of companies you hate.

I don't even know the population of Serbia. The US is over 300 million and
the US also sells grains etc. to other countries. It's one of the few
things left we have to sell.

That leaves it your decision. Fifty nine cents a pound for chicken or three
dollars plus? Put your money where your mouth is.

On Oct 22, 6:58*pm, Dänk 1010011010 > wrote:
> I'm an American who is visiting Serbia, and though it may seem a bit
> backwards at times, the food is excellent.
>
> All food seems to be locally grown, and Serbian farms are small
> independent operations, unlike the corporate megafarms in America.
>
> As a result, the food is extremely fresh and so much flavorful than
> the genetically-engineered, chemically-fertilized, hormone-injected
> stuff we eat in the United States.
>
> At first I thought the prices seemed a bit high, but that is because
> small farms lack the 'efficiency' of megafarms. *The higher (actually
> still lower than U.S.) price includes QUALITY, something that American
> megafarms have lost in the race for maximum production.
>
> Unfortunately, Serbia is trying to 'modernize,' and this means that
> soon its agricultural industry will be destroyed as Mosanto, ADM, and
> Wal-Mart take over the country.
>
> Serbia might join the EU eventually, but EU regulations impose strict
> regulations on agricultural operations. *For example, the EU requires
> that all dairy farms have a minimum of 40 cows, which conflicts with
> Serbian herd sizes of about a dozen.
>
> I suspect that in about ten years all Serbian food will be produced by
> Mosanto, and become as tasteless and unhealthy as U.S. 'food.'

As long as the BEES are not fed Monsanto chemicals
this may help that sad place

see
http://www.sandia.gov/media/minebees.htm

On Oct 22, 6:58*am, Dänk 1010011010 > wrote:
> I'm an American who is visiting Serbia, and though it may seem a bit
> backwards at times, the food is excellent.
>
> All food seems to be locally grown, and Serbian farms are small
> independent operations, unlike the corporate megafarms in America.
>
> As a result, the food is extremely fresh and so much flavorful than
> the genetically-engineered, chemically-fertilized, hormone-injected
> stuff we eat in the United States.
>
> At first I thought the prices seemed a bit high, but that is because
> small farms lack the 'efficiency' of megafarms. *The higher (actually
> still lower than U.S.) price includes QUALITY, something that American
> megafarms have lost in the race for maximum production.
>
> Unfortunately, Serbia is trying to 'modernize,' and this means that
> soon its agricultural industry will be destroyed as Mosanto, ADM, and
> Wal-Mart take over the country.
>
> Serbia might join the EU eventually, but EU regulations impose strict
> regulations on agricultural operations. *For example, the EU requires
> that all dairy farms have a minimum of 40 cows, which conflicts with
> Serbian herd sizes of about a dozen.
>
> I suspect that in about ten years all Serbian food will be produced by
> Mosanto, and become as tasteless and unhealthy as U.S. 'food.'

The Serbs have always been a people who are not worth considering. I
wouldn't fly there on your broom.

On Oct 22, 6:49*am, "Giusi" > wrote:
> "Dänk 1010011010" *ha scritto nel messaggio
>
> > I'm an American who is visiting Serbia, and though it >may seem a bit
> > backwards at times, the food is >excellent.
>
> Well, yeah, they are only a decade or so from genetic cleansing and the US
> is 150 years past hers.
>
> > All food seems to be locally grown, and Serbian farms >are small>
> > independent operations, unlike the corporate >megafarms in America.
>
> You are having an emotional response to something you only partially
> understand. *If you want to eat locally, without chemicals and no genetic
> alteration, you can. *You just have to pay for it. *Cheap food means super
> efficiency and underpaid seasonal workers. *In other words it means the
> panoply of companies you hate.
>
> I don't even know the population of Serbia. *The US is over 300 million and
> the US also sells grains etc. to other countries. *It's one of the few
> things left we have to sell.
>
> That leaves it your decision. *Fifty nine cents a pound for chicken or three
> dollars plus? *Put your money where your mouth is.

IAWTP. The market determines what gets sold in the U.S. If enough
people - like you, apparently - buy only fresh, organic, local
products, then the corporate farms would eventually fade away. Go for
it.

N.

"Giusi" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Dänk 1010011010" ha scritto nel messaggio
>
>> I'm an American who is visiting Serbia, and though it >may seem a bit
>> backwards at times, the food is >excellent.
>
> Well, yeah, they are only a decade or so from genetic cleansing and the US
> is 150 years past hers.
>
>> All food seems to be locally grown, and Serbian farms >are small>
>> independent operations, unlike the corporate >megafarms in America.
>>
>
> You are having an emotional response to something you only partially
> understand. If you want to eat locally, without chemicals and no genetic
> alteration, you can. You just have to pay for it. Cheap food means super
> efficiency and underpaid seasonal workers. In other words it means the
> panoply of companies you hate.
>
> I don't even know the population of Serbia. The US is over 300 million
> and the US also sells grains etc. to other countries. It's one of the few
> things left we have to sell.
>
> That leaves it your decision. Fifty nine cents a pound for chicken or
> three dollars plus? Put your money where your mouth is.
>
Guisi,
You're living in Italy, right? Is mega-farming evident there? Other than the
hazards of dumping toxic waste in agricultural areas is the quality of the
produce pretty good across the board?

We thought the produce at the market was excellent when there a couple of
years ago though kind of pricey. We really didn't shop any supermarkets to
compare. It's hard to get a macro view as a tourist.

Jon

On Thu, 22 Oct 2009 06:50:57 -0700 (PDT), Pits09
> wrote:


>
>As long as the BEES are not fed Monsanto chemicals
>this may help that sad place
>
>see
>http://www.sandia.gov/media/minebees.htm

Actually the real problem with Monsanto is not its chemicals but its
GMO seeds. Monsanto *genetically modifies the organism/seed* so it is
resistant to Round-Up or the corn worm etc.- in the case of corn. So
in America large corn acreage is planted in Monsanto seed corn. (They
grow these GMO seeds in research in places like Hawaii because of the
climate.) Then the Large American Farmer (Mr. Agribusiness) has got
to go back and buy them again from Monsanto. But the crop is easy to
grow, and these kind of farmers get the US *Aid to Farmer* money and
the whole thing is sickening except---the US now uses lots of corn
from animal food, to table food to sweetening.

I believe there was even a suit by Monsanto against a smaller corn
farmer whose corn was pollinated by this particular Monsanto seed.
Inadvertently. The idea was crazy and I don't know how it turned out.

Monsanto funds lots of research to Universities to do this work and
many Universities do not turn these research dollars, from Monsanto,
away. In our County of Hawaii, researchers wanted to study a GMO
coffee to purportedly make it caffeine free, or more disease
resistant. Well we coffee farmers said no way and our County was the
first in the US to ban the GMO as far as coffee and taro goes.

Monsanto is big bucks. Make no mistake about that.

aloha,
Cea

Dänk 1010011010 wrote:

> I'm an American who is visiting Serbia, and though it may seem a bit
> backwards at times, the food is excellent.
>
> All food seems to be locally grown, and Serbian farms are small
> independent operations, unlike the corporate megafarms in America.
>
> As a result, the food is extremely fresh and so much flavorful than
> the genetically-engineered, chemically-fertilized, hormone-injected
> stuff we eat in the United States.
>
> At first I thought the prices seemed a bit high, but that is because
> small farms lack the 'efficiency' of megafarms. The higher (actually
> still lower than U.S.) price includes QUALITY, something that American
> megafarms have lost in the race for maximum production.
>
> Unfortunately, Serbia is trying to 'modernize,' and this means that
> soon its agricultural industry will be destroyed as Mosanto, ADM, and
> Wal-Mart take over the country.
>
> Serbia might join the EU eventually, but EU regulations impose strict
> regulations on agricultural operations. For example, the EU requires
> that all dairy farms have a minimum of 40 cows, which conflicts with
> Serbian herd sizes of about a dozen.


Serbs are peasants who live in caves...the EU wants them even less than it
does the Turks...

Here in Chicago Serbs are universally derided, they are referred to as
"squareheads", "off-the-boats", and "low-rents". The higher-class ones are
referred to as "Eurotrash". In fact we had one here in Illannnoy until last
year as a governor, now he's on trial...

Serbs are about as big a bunch of trash as gypsies, quite frankly...can be
correctly described as a "criminal class", like their comrades-in-arms the
Russians, another group that no would miss if they were exterminated...


> I suspect that in about ten years all Serbian food will be produced by
> Mosanto, and become as tasteless and unhealthy as U.S. 'food.'


Serbia, what a ********...

You writing about Serbia's "healthy" food is like someone visiting the 1936
Berlin Olympics and praising the place because Hitler is a vegetarian...

What does Karadzic eat up there in his prison cell in the Netherlands,
awaiting his trial for war crimes and crimes against humanity...???


--
Best
Greg

On Oct 23, 6:46*am, pure kona > wrote:
> On Thu, 22 Oct 2009 06:50:57 -0700 (PDT), Pits09
>
> > wrote:
>
> >As long as the BEES are not fed Monsanto chemicals
> >this may help that sad place
>
> >see
> >http://www.sandia.gov/media/minebees.htm
>
> Actually the real problem with Monsanto is not its chemicals but its
> GMO seeds. Monsanto *genetically modifies the organism/seed* so it is
> resistant to Round-Up or the corn worm etc.- in the case of corn. So
> in America large corn acreage is planted in Monsanto seed corn. (They
> grow these GMO seeds in research in places like Hawaii because of the
> climate.) * Then the Large American Farmer (Mr. Agribusiness) has *got
> to go back and buy them again from Monsanto. But the crop is easy to
> grow, and these kind of farmers get the US *Aid to Farmer* money and
> the whole thing is sickening except---the US now uses lots of corn
> from animal food, to table food to sweetening.
>
> I believe there was even a suit by Monsanto against a smaller corn
> farmer whose corn was pollinated by this particular Monsanto seed.
> Inadvertently. The idea was crazy and I don't know how it turned out.
>
> Monsanto funds lots of research to Universities to do this work and
> many Universities do not turn these research dollars, from Monsanto,
> away. In our County of Hawaii, researchers wanted to study a GMO
> coffee to purportedly make it caffeine free, or more disease
> resistant. *Well we coffee farmers said no way and our County was the
> first in the US to ban the GMO as far as coffee and taro goes.
>
> Monsanto is big bucks. *Make no mistake about that.
>
> aloha,
> Cea

Hi Pure Kona ,
Personally I am not all against Monsanto just because they area
Multi national giant
You make very valid points on the millions of MUCH NEEDED research
dollars going to various institutions and organisations
who are always scrabbling over ever diminishing funding streams
Same goes for Pharmaceutical companies .

However,in some cases it has been proven that Large multinationals
tend to litigate before being bought to the negotiation table .
The case you may be referring to is probably the best publicised one
against a chap known as Percy Schmeiser I recall a doco or film about
this bloke

Another resource for those interested in this behaviour is below .
http://www.keepmainefree.org/suesuesue.html

Until recently My home state here in Aus has been GM free
but know trials up north on GM Canola and cotton are underway .
It has certainly polarised the agricultural community and is a bit
like windows versus Linux or Mac
debates and the occasional discussions have degenerated into blows
actually being struck between the various advocates ./neighbours .

The Jury here is still out on the LONG term benefits of GM some
soil tests already indicate that one has to use ever increasing and
costly inputs
to obtain the published claims on yield benefits .Especially Canola
which in a soil sense is rightly called rape . It certainly rapes the
soil of certain nutrients
no matter what cropping rotation is used . The Bio fuel industry has
not helped much either . Especially when looking at the TRUE carbon
footprint
involved in the manufacture and logistics chain of the inputs .

As the other poster states a simple taste test on certain foods
tells one where it comes from and what method was used in production.
Farmers are between a rock & a hard place fighting climate ,fickle
consumers , and at times greedy opportunistic price gouging
distribution chains.
Add to that despite FTA's Free Trade agreements other countries
habit of dumping heavily subsidised product into our markets .
We have hardly any subsidies here and are at the beginning of VERY
long distribution /logistics chains for world export .
Thus is why we really hammer high quality produce .

Thus as other posters have said if one can afford it in ever
tightening fiscal environment people will pay and have to to get
good quality produce
Co -ops and local farmers markets just can not compete with cartels
and the sheer buying power of the giants .

But market forces also are a needed two edged sword .

Thus many agri folk spread the risk by a combination or organic and
more cheaper to produce options .Often in different states or
localities.

If people are that hung up on organic or gm free produce they should
start either their own garden or start/join a community garden
group .
Happily this is an emerging trend not only for health and cost
considerations but the food *does* taste better when you can just
step outside and pick fresh what you want in season

But like politicians (who lie also ) Multinationals are part of the
rich fabric of life.

The Canada case, where Monsanto sued a non-GMO farmer
for infringement because his non-GMO crops exhibited
"round up ready" genes that had come in via accidental lateral
gene transfer from the next farm over, has got to be one
of the more egregious prosecutions...

S.

On Oct 23, 11:26*am, "Gregory Morrow" > wrote:
> Dänk 1010011010 wrote:
> > I'm an American who is visiting Serbia, and though it may seem a bit
> > backwards at times, the food is excellent.
>
> > All food seems to be locally grown, and Serbian farms are small
> > independent operations, unlike the corporate megafarms in America.
>
> > As a result, the food is extremely fresh and so much flavorful than
> > the genetically-engineered, chemically-fertilized, hormone-injected
> > stuff we eat in the United States.
>
> > At first I thought the prices seemed a bit high, but that is because
> > small farms lack the 'efficiency' of megafarms. *The higher (actually
> > still lower than U.S.) price includes QUALITY, something that American
> > megafarms have lost in the race for maximum production.
>
> > Unfortunately, Serbia is trying to 'modernize,' and this means that
> > soon its agricultural industry will be destroyed as Mosanto, ADM, and
> > Wal-Mart take over the country.
>
> > Serbia might join the EU eventually, but EU regulations impose strict
> > regulations on agricultural operations. *For example, the EU requires
> > that all dairy farms have a minimum of 40 cows, which conflicts with
> > Serbian herd sizes of about a dozen.
>
> Serbs are peasants who live in caves...the EU wants them even less than it
> does the Turks...
>
> Here in Chicago Serbs are universally derided, they are referred to as
> "squareheads", "off-the-boats", and "low-rents". *The higher-class ones are
> referred to as "Eurotrash". *In fact we had one here in Illannnoy until last
> year as a governor, now he's on trial...
>
> Serbs are about as big a bunch of trash as gypsies, quite frankly...can be
> correctly described as a "criminal class", like their comrades-in-arms the
> Russians, another group that no would miss if they were exterminated...
>
> > I suspect that in about ten years all Serbian food will be produced by
> > Mosanto, and become as tasteless and unhealthy as U.S. 'food.'
>
> Serbia, what a ********...
>
> You writing about Serbia's "healthy" food is like someone visiting the 1936
> Berlin Olympics and praising the place because Hitler is a vegetarian...
>
> What does Karadzic eat up there in his prison cell in the Netherlands,
> awaiting his trial for war crimes and crimes against humanity...???
>
> --
> Best
> Greg

perhaps

" nonfat yogurt and macrobiotics, he remained the serious drinker he
had always been, quaffing glass after glass of Bear's Blood wine"

"Zeppo" ha scritto nel messaggio
> "Giusi" wrote in message
>> "Dänk 1010011010" ha scritto nel messaggio

>>> All food seems to be locally grown, and Serbian farms >are small>
>>> independent operations, unlike the corporate >megafarms in America.
>>>
>>
>> That leaves it your decision. Fifty nine cents a pound for chicken or
>> three dollars plus? Put your money where your mouth is.
>>
> Guisi,
> You're living in Italy, right? Is mega-farming evident there? Other than
> the > hazards of dumping toxic waste in agricultural areas is the quality
> of the > produce pretty good across the board?
>
We have choice. The big supermarkets and some of the street vendors sell
produce from all the world, BUT it must be marked as to where it originated.
All the towns worthy of the name have green grocers "bio" which means
organic.

Food isn't very cheap no matter where it comes from, because fuel prices are
much higher so carting it around or even plowing costs more. I bought
special red potatoes directly from the farmer last weekend. They were one
euro ($1.50) per kilo in 5 or 10 kilo bags. That was pretty cheap.
Yesterday supermarket chicken on sale was euro 3.20 per kilo, or about $2.20
per pound. Local free range chicken at the butcher costs more-- which is
why you can buy just a little piece of it if you want to. A different
supermarket had capocollo of pork, a sort of shoulder/butt cut, for euro
3.99 a kilo. I stocked up, because here that's a good price! That's about
$3 per pound.
So I don't buy exclusively the highest end, highest quality organic because
I can't afford it, but I know what those savings cost the atmosphere and
workers, and I don't make the mistake of thinking all we have to do is kill
off Monsanto and we'll live happily everafter.

pure kona > wrote:

>I believe there was even a suit by Monsanto against a smaller corn
>farmer whose corn was pollinated by this particular Monsanto seed.
>Inadvertently. The idea was crazy and I don't know how it turned out.

He was sued because he was growing corn derived from Monsanto plants.
He was found guilty because, though he claimed his field was
pollinated accidentally, they found evidence that he was deliberately
growing plants descended from those accidentally pollinated.

D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.

http://derekl1963.livejournal.com/

-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL

Pits09 > wrote:

>However,in some cases it has been proven that Large multinationals
>tend to litigate before being bought to the negotiation table .

Which is only a problem to those who mistakenly believe that the world
is a nice fluffy place and that negotiations prior to litigation are a
requirement, or at least should be to preserve their illusion of the
world being a nice fluffy place.

D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.

http://derekl1963.livejournal.com/

-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL

On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 19:04:12 GMT, (Derek Lyons)
wrote:

>pure kona > wrote:
>
>>I believe there was even a suit by Monsanto against a smaller corn
>>farmer whose corn was pollinated by this particular Monsanto seed.
>>Inadvertently. The idea was crazy and I don't know how it turned out.
>
>He was sued because he was growing corn derived from Monsanto plants.
>He was found guilty because, though he claimed his field was
>pollinated accidentally, they found evidence that he was deliberately
>growing plants descended from those accidentally pollinated.
>
>D.

My intention in mentioning Monsanto and its GMO seeds is that they
have a tight hold on the market. The corn I mentioned is only one
crop, so each year you must go buy your corn seeds from Monsanto. If
it's worth it, they'll buy it, but I am speaking of huge farm lands.
We're talking agribusiness here- millions of dollars for corn or
soybeans. Not the small farmer, taking pride in his crop and trying to
do his best

As a small farmer, against GMO for many reasons, I think Monsanto
represents a large chemical company making tons of money and we small
farmers don't relay like the intrusion of modified organisms ---even
the suggestion of intrusion, to come near our prized heritage plants.
Keep that pollen far away. I guess it is simply the farmer versus the
research scientists in our case.

We're doing great and we don't anyone trying to "Improve" something
that doesn't need improving -just for $cientific sake.

aloha,
Cea

On Sat, 24 Oct 2009 13:38:37 -0700, Feranija <feranija@net...> wrote:

>Ranée at Arabian Knits wrote:
>> In article >,
>> Feranija <feranija@net...> wrote:
>>
>>> Derek Lyons wrote:
>>>> pure kona > wrote:
>>>>

>
>This prompts for updating or modifying laws on intellectual patents
>in agriculture in regard for farmers who grow generic corn (or
>anything else).
>
>Without new laws, so far it seems the only way to avoid being fined
>or being jailed, is to abandon generic crops, and obediently
>purchase GMO seeds.

That sounds interesting but apparently the modifications don't grow
true for several human generations (I'm talking just Kona Coffee) and
how would you ever test it and who would be at fault? Not being an
attorney, it seems odd to have to protect what's out the door and has
been for 125 years (very same happy plants) - from interloping pollen.
aloha,
Cea

Feranija <feranija@net...> wrote:

>Derek Lyons wrote:
>> pure kona > wrote:
>>
>>> I believe there was even a suit by Monsanto against a smaller corn
>>> farmer whose corn was pollinated by this particular Monsanto seed.
>>> Inadvertently. The idea was crazy and I don't know how it turned out.
>>
>> He was sued because he was growing corn derived from Monsanto plants.
>> He was found guilty because, though he claimed his field was
>> pollinated accidentally, they found evidence that he was deliberately
>> growing plants descended from those accidentally pollinated.
>>
>> D.
>
>Farmers save their seeds for the next season, of course. He was
>found guilty of that, although he never purchased Monsanto's GMO seeds.

No, he was found guily because he was _deliberately growing_ plants
descended from those accidentally pollinated, a very different matter
from saving seed. (IIRC he was growing them in his barn under grow
lamps.)

D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.

http://derekl1963.livejournal.com/

-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL

On Sat, 24 Oct 2009 22:33:49 -0700 in rec.food.cooking, Ranee at Arabian
Knits > wrote,
>In article >,
> (Derek Lyons) wrote:
>
>> No, he was found guily because he was _deliberately growing_ plants
>> descended from those accidentally pollinated, a very different matter
>> from saving seed. (IIRC he was growing them in his barn under grow
>> lamps.)
>
> As in starting seeds? We grew our plants under grow lights to give
>them a head start. There wasn't anything nefarious in our actions. We
>deliberately planted them, we deliberately grew them, we deliberately
>used grow lights.

I don't remember anything about grow lights. I do remember that the
court agreed that he was deliberately selecting for roundup-resistant
seeds.

Ranee at Arabian Knits > wrote:

>In article >,
> (Derek Lyons) wrote:
>
>> No, he was found guily because he was _deliberately growing_ plants
>> descended from those accidentally pollinated, a very different matter
>> from saving seed. (IIRC he was growing them in his barn under grow
>> lamps.)
>
> As in starting seeds? We grew our plants under grow lights to give
>them a head start. There wasn't anything nefarious in our actions. We
>deliberately planted them, we deliberately grew them, we deliberately
>used grow lights.

Either you are really stupid, or monumentally obtuse. Either way,
it's clear that you have no interest in anything resembling the facts.

D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.

http://derekl1963.livejournal.com/

-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL