jj > wrote:

> I'm curious how many of you regularly shop at a small(er)/non-chain
> grocery store for "staple" food items?

I do.

> Could you also mention where in the world you live?

Germany, where this is still normal enough, especially in smaller towns.

> Alas, I am stuck with chain stores here in Las Vegas, NV.

This might well be what we all will end up with, at some time in the
future, unfortunately...

> The butcher shop was actually cheaper than the chains, the quality
> about the same and the variety better. I'm not sure if the owner was
> onsite.

Very generally speaking, good-quality butcher shops are more expensive
than supermarkets, but they do tend to offer better quality and an
option of placing an order for something that is not available at the
moment (some food halls in department stores offer this option, too).
Some particular butcher shops are quite a bit more expensive, but they
offer really superior quality and rare types of meat (from animals
specially raised or from certain locations), as well as game. Bakeries
and greengrocers tend to be only marginally more expensive than
supermarkets (I am talking only about supermarkets that have a bakery
outlet, usually sublet to some actual bakery).

Specialised fishmongers have become very rare, even in large cities.
This is a pity.

Also, there are markets - real markets - with stalls that sometimes
offer very good quality stuff. The prices tend to be higher, on the
whole, than supermarket ones.

Then there are farms selling their own produce etc., but they are
generally practical only for those who live within striking distance. I
rarely buy at the farms, none being close, but I did buy some sour
cherries (my very favourite berries) at a farm when I was visiting
friends who live nearby.

Victor

I'm curious how many of you regularly shop at a small(er)/non-chain
grocery store for "staple" food items?

By small, how about we say this means the grocery business only has
locations in your city/town. (so no regional chains)

Could you also mention where in the world you live?

Alas, I am stuck with chain stores here in Las Vegas, NV. About 2
decades ago when I lived in Davis Sq, Somerville, MA there was a
produce shop and a butcher shop just a few blocks away. The produce
shop was slightly more expensive than the chains but the quality was
also better. The owner often ran the register and knew his regulars.

The butcher shop was actually cheaper than the chains, the quality
about the same and the variety better. I'm not sure if the owner was
onsite.

I miss them both.

Jay

jj wrote:
> I'm curious how many of you regularly shop at a small(er)/non-chain
> grocery store for "staple" food items?

We do.

>
> By small, how about we say this means the grocery business only has
> locations in your city/town. (so no regional chains)

Up until this year, my store had only one location, period. Now it's got
two, both in Berkeley.

> Could you also mention where in the world you live?

I live a few blocks south of Berkeley, California, in Oakland.

>
> The butcher shop was actually cheaper than the chains, the quality
> about the same and the variety better. I'm not sure if the owner was
> onsite.

The butcher shop at the Berkeley Bowl isn't cheaper than, say, Safeway,
but I find their quality MUCH better, and I can do butcher-shop stuff,
like buy a whole beef femur and have them cut it into three-inch pieces,
or ask for just three slices of bacon, or take home a pound of chicken
feet. None of those things are possible at my Safeway.

Serene

jj > wrote in message
...
> I'm curious how many of you regularly shop at a small(er)/non-chain
> grocery store for "staple" food items?
>
> By small, how about we say this means the grocery business only has
> locations in your city/town. (so no regional chains)

Yes; I shop at a few local-only grocery stores, a few ethnic grocers, and
one halal butcher because I like that I can get exotic meats there. My
grocery bill has dramatically decreased at the likes of Safeway and Costco.
I wish others would watch-and-compare but LARGE-and-national seem to be
built in to Joe Dontcare & Jane Complain Consumers; it's all about the
marketing budget.

I recently visited a SaveMart -- Where the smart consumer shops -- because
it was the only place open on a Sunday in a small town. I was stunned to see
EVERYTHING US$1.00 to US$2.00 higher than 7-11*, let alone Safeway!

* The West Coast convenience chain which is the equivalent of Circle K in
other parts of the country.

The Ranger

On Oct 13, 4:03 pm, (jj) wrote:
> I'm curious how many of you regularly shop at a small(er)/non-chain
> grocery store for "staple" food items?
>
Depends on what "staples" are, I guess. I buy fish and seafood at an
independent store/fishmonger. Not cheap but superior high quality. I
buy all manner of Asian things at both chain Asian markets (Ranch 99,
which you also have in Vegas) and at an independent Asian market. I
buy certain cuts of meat and in-house made tortillas and bakery
products at an independent Hispanic market. In general the produce
selection and prices are best at the Asian places.
>
> Could you also mention where in the world you live?
>
Greater Los Angeles area.

> Alas, I am stuck with chain stores here in Las Vegas, NV. [snip]

Can't give you specific help but I suggest you look for markets that
cater to the Hispanic population and also the Ranch 99, which is in
that Chinatown area of Spring Mountain Road. -aem

On Oct 13, 4:19*pm, "The Ranger" > wrote:
> jj > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > I'm curious how many of you regularly shop at a small(er)/non-chain
> > grocery store for "staple" food items?
>
> > By small, how about we say this means the grocery business only has
> > locations in your city/town. *(so no regional chains)
>
> Yes; I shop at a few local-only grocery stores, a few ethnic grocers, and
> one halal butcher because I like that I can get exotic meats there. My
> grocery bill has dramatically decreased at the likes of Safeway and Costco.
> I wish others would watch-and-compare but LARGE-and-national seem to be
> built in to Joe Dontcare & Jane Complain Consumers; it's all about the
> marketing budget.
>
> I recently visited a SaveMart -- Where the smart consumer shops -- because
> it was the only place open on a Sunday in a small town. I was stunned to see
> EVERYTHING US$1.00 to US$2.00 higher than 7-11*, let alone Safeway!
>
> * The West Coast convenience chain which is the equivalent of Circle K in
> other parts of the country.
>
> The Ranger

here in the san gabriel vallley we have the usual big chains, ralphs
food 4 less (kroger), vons & pavillions (safeway) albertson's, lots of
tj's, adn stater brothers; but we also have asian markets and
hispanic markets, plus the "new guy" on the block, fresh & easy. f&e
stores are about 1/2 the size of a regular super market, but not as
small as tj's, with good prices. i don't shop small places because
there just arn't that many of them left. i compare the flyers of the
national chains along with the ethnic stores (all of which are within
2 miles of where i live) and look for the best prices.

harriet & critters in rainy socal

jj > wrote:
>
> I'm curious how many of you regularly shop at a small(er)/non-chain
> grocery store for "staple" food items?
>

Why?

On Oct 13, 4:03*pm, (jj) wrote:
> I'm curious how many of you regularly shop at a small(er)/non-chain
> grocery store for "staple" food items?
I'm in the So Cal High Desert about an hour North of Palm Springs. I
do most shopping in town at Stater Bros. (chain), two or three times a
year I buy special things in the PS area TJ's, and only frequent the
local small store if Stater's is out of something the small store
gives no spoilage or shelf life worry over. <--They converted a
closed down "dime store" into a grocer, and you can smell the refer
system must be less than cold enough...ugh!
....Picky

In article >,
(jj) wrote:

> I'm curious how many of you regularly shop at a small(er)/non-chain
> grocery store for "staple" food items?
>
>
I do more of my shopping at the local SaveMart, a regional chain with
the best prices in town, but not for everything. Number 2 would be our
local co-op which is quirky but large enough to have good departments
such as wine and beer, cheese, produce, and bread. Number 3 is the
Nugget, a local chain, which has pretensions and is overpriced but is
good for a few items such as locally grown almonds. We also have Safeway
but I have found no reason to shop there. We have a twice weekly farmers
market but it's too boutique-ish. I live in Davis, CA.

D.M.

jj wrote:
> I'm curious how many of you regularly shop at a small(er)/non-chain
> grocery store for "staple" food items?
>
> By small, how about we say this means the grocery business only has
> locations in your city/town. (so no regional chains)
>
> Could you also mention where in the world you live?
>


Aurora, Colorado.

I shop occasionally at a small Italian deli very nearby, but
mostly for their delicious Italian sausage, pizzelle, prosciutto,
and imported canned or bottled specialties. They do have beef
and pork cut to order or precut and marinating, but his prices
are very high.

Other than that and some ethnic markets in Denver (Indian, Asian
HMart, Iranian, Mexican, Thai and Japanese) there aren't any
independent grocery stores in the 'burbs.

The closest we come are smallish chains like Sunflower and
Sprouts and I shop both of them often. Very nice selection of
produce and good prices.

gloria p

On 2009-10-14, Gloria P > wrote:

> Aurora, Colorado.

> Other than that and some ethnic markets in Denver (Indian, Asian
> HMart, Iranian, Mexican, Thai and Japanese) there aren't any
> independent grocery stores in the 'burbs.

You are blessed.

Where I am, there are no independents. We've got City Market (Kroger)
and that's it and we're glad to have it.

nb

Gloria P wrote:
> jj wrote:
>> I'm curious how many of you regularly shop at a small(er)/non-chain
>> grocery store for "staple" food items?
>>
>> By small, how about we say this means the grocery business only has
>> locations in your city/town. (so no regional chains)
>>
>> Could you also mention where in the world you live?

> Aurora, Colorado.
>
> I shop occasionally at a small Italian deli very nearby, but
> mostly for their delicious Italian sausage, pizzelle, prosciutto,
> and imported canned or bottled specialties. They do have beef
> and pork cut to order or precut and marinating, but his prices
> are very high.

I've only recently been shopping at this Italian deli that opened
nearby. (central jersey) They have great sandwiches, bread,
cookies, cheeses etc etc. Being tailgate season, they have what
I need. Not especially cheap, but a great selection.

They are located, conveniently, across the street from the
Sunday farmer's market.

> The closest we come are smallish chains like Sunflower and
> Sprouts and I shop both of them often. Very nice selection of
> produce and good prices.

I also visit the produce/bakery market near me, more often in
summer.

nancy

"jj" > wrote in message
...
> I'm curious how many of you regularly shop at a small(er)/non-chain
> grocery store for "staple" food items?
>
> By small, how about we say this means the grocery business only has
> locations in your city/town. (so no regional chains)
>
> Could you also mention where in the world you live?
>
> Alas, I am stuck with chain stores here in Las Vegas, NV. About 2
> decades ago when I lived in Davis Sq, Somerville, MA there was a
> produce shop and a butcher shop just a few blocks away. The produce
> shop was slightly more expensive than the chains but the quality was
> also better. The owner often ran the register and knew his regulars.
>
> The butcher shop was actually cheaper than the chains, the quality
> about the same and the variety better. I'm not sure if the owner was
> onsite.
>
> I miss them both.

They've been driven out of most of SoCal. We used to have 2 really great
ones but they closed years ago. Awesome meats, fresh produce and even a
lunch counter that made their own pickles and many other things. So far
we've had good success keeping out the Super Squal(id)-Marts at least.

Paul

Paul M. Cook wrote:
> "jj" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>I'm curious how many of you regularly shop at a small(er)/non-chain
>>grocery store for "staple" food items?
>>
>>By small, how about we say this means the grocery business only has
>>locations in your city/town. (so no regional chains)
>>
>>Could you also mention where in the world you live?
>>
>>Alas, I am stuck with chain stores here in Las Vegas, NV. About 2
>>decades ago when I lived in Davis Sq, Somerville, MA there was a
>>produce shop and a butcher shop just a few blocks away. The produce
>>shop was slightly more expensive than the chains but the quality was
>>also better. The owner often ran the register and knew his regulars.
>>
>>The butcher shop was actually cheaper than the chains, the quality
>>about the same and the variety better. I'm not sure if the owner was
>>onsite.
>>
>>I miss them both.
>
>
> They've been driven out of most of SoCal. We used to have 2 really great
> ones but they closed years ago. Awesome meats, fresh produce and even a
> lunch counter that made their own pickles and many other things. So far
> we've had good success keeping out the Super Squal(id)-Marts at least.
>
> Paul
>
>

I almost hesitate to bring up the San Francisco bay area, i patronize a
"mom & pop" store for meats and fruits and veggies. I patronize mainly
one of several possible 'full service' mom & pop's.

However i shop at several other for various things the primary location
don't carry.

And you don't have to go far in the bay area to find such diversity of
option.

The only 'chain' i patronize is a 'smart & final' in the neighborhood,
for milk and butter and they often have specials on pastries and fruits.

I can only get the bread i want in Chinatown, the Vietnamese stores have
baguette's

--

Mr. Joseph Littleshoes Esq.

Domine, dirige nos.
Let the games begin!
http://fredeeky.typepad.com/fredeeky.../sf_anthem.mp3

In article >,
(jj) wrote:

> I'm curious how many of you regularly shop at a small(er)/non-chain
> grocery store for "staple" food items?
>


I am in San Jose. I shop about equally at Whole Foods and two small
Italian grocery stores (3-5 stores each) Lunardi's and Cosentino's. I
also hit up the TJs. I have been in a Safeway/Alberson's etc like twice
in 10 years and those were like 'need ice on a holiday' sort of
emergencies.

Gloria wrote on Tue, 13 Oct 2009 19:55:35 -0600:

> jj wrote:
>> I'm curious how many of you regularly shop at a
>> small(er)/non-chain grocery store for "staple" food items?
>>
>> By small, how about we say this means the grocery business
>> only has locations in your city/town. (so no regional
>> chains)
>>
>> Could you also mention where in the world you live?
>>
> Aurora, Colorado.

> I shop occasionally at a small Italian deli very nearby, but mostly
> for their delicious Italian sausage, pizzelle,
> prosciutto, and imported canned or bottled specialties. They do have
> beef and pork cut to order or precut and marinating,
> but his prices are very high.

> Other than that and some ethnic markets in Denver (Indian,
> Asian HMart, Iranian, Mexican, Thai and Japanese) there aren't
> any independent grocery stores in the 'burbs.

> The closest we come are smallish chains like Sunflower and Sprouts and
> I shop both of them often. Very nice selection of
> produce and good prices.

In the DC area there is a small chain called McGruder's (Macgruder is
possible) and I do my once a week major shopping there. However, I use a
number of different places, including the fairly large Giant chain and
the expensive Whole Foods and Balducci's, for day to day purchases.
There are two small supermarkets, one Indian and one Chinese, that I use
for most ethnic goods. There are some other ethnic places that I use
once in a while.

--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

On Oct 13, 7:03*pm, (jj) wrote:
> I'm curious how many of you regularly shop at a small(er)/non-chain
> grocery store for "staple" food items?
>
> By small, how about we say this means the grocery business only has
> locations in your city/town. *(so no regional chains)
>
> Could you also mention where in the world you live?
>
> Alas, I am stuck with chain stores here in Las Vegas, NV. *About 2
> decades ago when I lived in Davis Sq, Somerville, MA there was a
> produce shop and a butcher shop just a few blocks away. *The produce
> shop was slightly more expensive than the chains but the quality was
> also better. *The owner often ran the register and knew his regulars.
>
> The butcher shop was actually cheaper than the chains, the quality
> about the same and the variety better. *I'm not sure if the owner was
> onsite.
>
> I miss them both.
>
> Jay

There ARE no independents in my area. Just the three tribes are
present.

When I was a kid in the Dark Ages, there was an indep. grocer it
seemed every other block - and they all survived. It was great - you
could drop off a list in the am, a pull cart, and the thing was loaded
for pickup in the afternoon for the kid to schlep home after school.
(No perishables of course, but then again, we had a milkman delivering
right to the back door, same with eggs.) Those were the days when food
gathering was no hassle.

On Oct 13, 7:03*pm, (jj) wrote:
> I'm curious how many of you regularly shop at a small(er)/non-chain
> grocery store for "staple" food items?
>
> By small, how about we say this means the grocery business only has
> locations in your city/town. *(so no regional chains)
>
> Could you also mention where in the world you live?
>
> Alas, I am stuck with chain stores here in Las Vegas, NV. *About 2
> decades ago when I lived in Davis Sq, Somerville, MA there was a
> produce shop and a butcher shop just a few blocks away. *The produce
> shop was slightly more expensive than the chains but the quality was
> also better. *The owner often ran the register and knew his regulars.
>
> The butcher shop was actually cheaper than the chains, the quality
> about the same and the variety better. *I'm not sure if the owner was
> onsite.
>
> I miss them both.
>
> Jay

Do you recall the names of the stores in Somerville? I'm up that way
moderately often, and can tell you if they still exist<g>

In RI, there are gazillions of small stores, some with two or more
sites, that usually started off selling produce and grew to include
deli, meat, dairy, fish, and then shelf goods. They are my main
source for shopping, altho I do hit a couple of the chains for
specialty items. I got into the habit when my daughter was small and
liked to roam. In a small store, there wasn't too far she could go,
and I didn't have to worry that some stranger hidden 3 aisles over
would walk off with her if she did disappear. Once she had learned to
stick with me, we hit the bigger stores.

maxine in ri

"jj" > wrote in message
...
> I'm curious how many of you regularly shop at a small(er)/non-chain
> grocery store for "staple" food items?
>
> By small, how about we say this means the grocery business only has
> locations in your city/town. (so no regional chains)
>
> Could you also mention where in the world you live?
>
I'm in South Carolina. It depends on what you call "staples". I buy
vegetables at local farm stands, when they happen to be open. I buy eggs
and cheese and milk at Walgreen's. Sorry, but you cannot beat the price and
yes it's a chain. I'm all for supporting local businesses but if I can get
it for less money why should I pay more?

Jill

jj wrote:
> I'm curious how many of you regularly shop at a small(er)/non-chain
> grocery store for "staple" food items?
>
> By small, how about we say this means the grocery business only has
> locations in your city/town. (so no regional chains)
>
> Could you also mention where in the world you live?
>
> Alas, I am stuck with chain stores here in Las Vegas, NV. About 2
> decades ago when I lived in Davis Sq, Somerville, MA there was a
> produce shop and a butcher shop just a few blocks away. The produce
> shop was slightly more expensive than the chains but the quality was
> also better. The owner often ran the register and knew his regulars.
>
> The butcher shop was actually cheaper than the chains, the quality
> about the same and the variety better. I'm not sure if the owner was
> onsite.
>
> I miss them both.
>
I frequently shop at a local family run grocery store. They don't carry
a lot of the things that I like to buy, but their prices are good and
their meat is excellent. They always have the best price around for
chicken. Better yet,they usually have small chickens, the type that are
nice done on the rotisserie and just enough for two. I can't find those
anywhere else. I buy my beef and pork from a family run butcher shop.
They have excellent meat and they are cheap.

On Tue, 13 Oct 2009 23:03:08 GMT,
(jj) wrote:

>I'm curious how many of you regularly shop at a small(er)/non-chain
>grocery store for "staple" food items?

Everyone will have a different idea of what a staple is.

>By small, how about we say this means the grocery business only has
>locations in your city/town. (so no regional chains)

I've got a least a half dozen places like that. But things like
flour, eggs, milk etc are not on my list when I shop there. I also go
to Wisconsin a few times a year for cheese. There's a few farms that
have cheese outlets or you can go to Monroe or a few other small
cities in Green County for an impressive variety.

>Could you also mention where in the world you live?

Chicago.

>Alas, I am stuck with chain stores here in Las Vegas, NV. About 2
>decades ago when I lived in Davis Sq, Somerville, MA there was a
>produce shop and a butcher shop just a few blocks away. The produce
>shop was slightly more expensive than the chains but the quality was
>also better. The owner often ran the register and knew his regulars.

Many people here complain about their food shopping choices. But in
most cases there is a reason they live were they do and they've made a
choice to be there. There must be something about LV you like.

>The butcher shop was actually cheaper than the chains, the quality
>about the same and the variety better. I'm not sure if the owner was
>onsite.
>
>I miss them both.

I'd miss my food choices too if I moved.

My favorite stores Is Valli Produce.

http://www.valliproduce.com/do/viewAd?id=4

It's just one of many we shop at but if I were limited to one it would
the first choice both for quality and produce pricing.

Lou

jj wrote:
> I'm curious how many of you regularly shop at a small(er)/non-chain
> grocery store for "staple" food items?
>
> By small, how about we say this means the grocery business only has
> locations in your city/town. (so no regional chains)
>
> Could you also mention where in the world you live?
>
> Alas, I am stuck with chain stores here in Las Vegas, NV. About 2
> decades ago when I lived in Davis Sq, Somerville, MA there was a
> produce shop and a butcher shop just a few blocks away. The produce
> shop was slightly more expensive than the chains but the quality was
> also better. The owner often ran the register and knew his regulars.
>
> The butcher shop was actually cheaper than the chains, the quality
> about the same and the variety better. I'm not sure if the owner was
> onsite.
>
> I miss them both.
>
> Jay

I used to before I moved back to this town. The little store that
I shopped at was so good--stocked with really fine items, and some
unusual ones. I go back there occasionally when I am in the area,
even though the owner died shortly after I left the area. (He
came down with pancreatic cancer shortly after my mother did.)

Unfortunately, there is no such thing right here. Maybe after I
move again...

--
Jean B.

jmcquown wrote:
> "jj" > wrote in message
> ...
>> I'm curious how many of you regularly shop at a small(er)/non-chain
>> grocery store for "staple" food items?
>>
>> By small, how about we say this means the grocery business only has
>> locations in your city/town. (so no regional chains)
>>
>> Could you also mention where in the world you live?
>>
> I'm in South Carolina. It depends on what you call "staples". I buy
> vegetables at local farm stands, when they happen to be open. I buy
> eggs and cheese and milk at Walgreen's. Sorry, but you cannot beat the
> price and yes it's a chain. I'm all for supporting local businesses but
> if I can get it for less money why should I pay more?
>
> Jill

Oh, thanks for reminding me. I do buy some things at small
stores: produce at local farmstands, eggs at an egg farm, lard
(yes, real lard) and pork at another tiny farm.

--
Jean B.

jj > wrote:
> I'm curious how many of you regularly shop at a small(er)/non-chain
> grocery store for "staple" food items?

> By small, how about we say this means the grocery business only has
> locations in your city/town. (so no regional chains)

Well, there is a place in town called "Eats" that is one of
2 local "health food" stores. I shop there for bulk spices
and oatmeal, and some other odd items I can't find in the
regular chain stores.

We have what you might call a regional chain, but it's only
3 stores. http://www.wades-foods.com/
At one point they had at least 6 stores, 2 of them in Blacksburg,
but they've closed both Blacksburg stores. I really liked shopping
there, but it's inconvenient to go to one of the remaining stores.
I still do on occasion when I want to stock up on meat.

> Could you also mention where in the world you live?

It's in my sig lines.

> Alas, I am stuck with chain stores here in Las Vegas, NV. About 2

For more commodity items like milk and eggs I usually go to
the Food Lion because it's closer to my house than anything else.
There are 2 Krogers in town and those are good for more vareity
than Food Lion. Curiously, Food Lion seems to have better
produce for less cost.

There is an Asian market that I go to on occasion. He has halal
lamb that he butchers himself on Thursdays, and some more exotic
spices and things that I can't find elsewhere. I get rice from
him or the other Asian store in town. Both are locally owned.

Bill Ranck
Blacksburg, Va.

jmcquown wrote:
> "jj" > wrote in message
> ...
>> I'm curious how many of you regularly shop at a small(er)/non-chain
>> grocery store for "staple" food items?
>>
>> By small, how about we say this means the grocery business only has
>> locations in your city/town. (so no regional chains)
>>
>> Could you also mention where in the world you live?
>>
> I'm in South Carolina. It depends on what you call "staples". I buy
> vegetables at local farm stands, when they happen to be open. I buy
> eggs and cheese and milk at Walgreen's. Sorry, but you cannot beat the
> price and yes it's a chain. I'm all for supporting local businesses but
> if I can get it for less money why should I pay more?
>
> Jill

To support a local business?

(jj) wrote in news:4ad5045e.246489937
@news.flex.com:

> I'm curious how many of you regularly shop at a small(er)/non-chain
> grocery store for "staple" food items?

Before I start, really should point out that "to grocery shop" is not an
appropriate verb form in English.

Yes, I do. I buy most of my food from local butchers, organic
greengrocers and bakeries.

Cleaning products we buy from the large chain hereabouts. They have
started selling organically grown and raised food because there is money
in it, but the choice is limited. If I want a 3 kg organically raised
capon, I need to go to a butcher shop.

I even buy kitchenware from smaller (one of a kind) stores. I only
recently purchased a starter set of knives for my daughter from the big
chain because they are selling some that mimic Wusthof/Henckels but for a
quarter of the price or less. I bought them at various stores as I only
buy these things one by one and not all were in stock. I'll be taking
these with me to Vancouver in a few weeks.

> By small, how about we say this means the grocery business only has
> locations in your city/town. (so no regional chains)
>
> Could you also mention where in the world you live?

Ottawa, capital of Canada.

> The butcher shop was actually cheaper than the chains, the quality
> about the same and the variety better. I'm not sure if the owner was
> onsite.

Organic butchers tend to be more expensive. In Québec, the organic food
growers (les producteurs d'aliments biologiques) did a poll some years
back and as a result, there is a more widespread acceptance of the need
to bring organic food prices within the range of the "plastic" stuff.

--

Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest
of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest
good of everyone. - John Maynard Keynes

Roger1 > wrote in
:

>> I'm all for supporting local
>> businesses but if I can get it for less money why should I pay more?
>>
>> Jill
>
> To support a local business?

Odd how that simple thought eludes some people.

--

Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest
of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest
good of everyone. - John Maynard Keynes

"Victor Sack" > wrote in message
.. .
> jj > wrote:
>
>> I'm curious how many of you regularly shop at a small(er)/non-chain
>> grocery store for "staple" food items?
>
> I do.
>
>> Could you also mention where in the world you live?
>
> Germany, where this is still normal enough, especially in smaller towns.
>
>> Alas, I am stuck with chain stores here in Las Vegas, NV.
>
> This might well be what we all will end up with, at some time in the
> future, unfortunately...
>
>> The butcher shop was actually cheaper than the chains, the quality
>> about the same and the variety better. I'm not sure if the owner was
>> onsite.
>
> Very generally speaking, good-quality butcher shops are more expensive
> than supermarkets, but they do tend to offer better quality and an
> option of placing an order for something that is not available at the
> moment (some food halls in department stores offer this option, too).
> Some particular butcher shops are quite a bit more expensive, but they
> offer really superior quality and rare types of meat (from animals
> specially raised or from certain locations), as well as game. Bakeries
> and greengrocers tend to be only marginally more expensive than
> supermarkets (I am talking only about supermarkets that have a bakery
> outlet, usually sublet to some actual bakery).
>
> Specialised fishmongers have become very rare, even in large cities.
> This is a pity.
>
> Also, there are markets - real markets - with stalls that sometimes
> offer very good quality stuff. The prices tend to be higher, on the
> whole, than supermarket ones.
>
> Then there are farms selling their own produce etc., but they are
> generally practical only for those who live within striking distance. I
> rarely buy at the farms, none being close, but I did buy some sour
> cherries (my very favourite berries) at a farm when I was visiting
> friends who live nearby.
>
> Victor

Were it not for farmers and butchers I would not have rediscovered real
pork. When I was growing up, Pork flesh was a light to medium brown color.
Now it's touted as the "other white meat." Dry and tough, but low in fat,
brining has become de rigueur.

About two years ago I happened to come across butcher farmer at a local
street market. The man behind the stall was Heath Putnam, owner of Wooly
Pigs ( http://www.woolypigs.com/_about.html). He was waxing poetic about
pork bellies and roasts. I met several of his customers who told me stories
of the best tasting piggies in the world. At about $25/lb, I said I would
pass. He then showed me some Berkshire pork that he also raises. Intrigued,
I bought a pork roast and a lb. of bacon. While more expensive than "normal"
pork, I found it to be fragrant, tasty, tender and about the best pork I
ever tasted. With that in mind, I went back the next week and bought two
mangalitsa chops. Unbelievable!!!

To bring the story full circle, a brand new butcher shop opened up about 9
miles from me. And he sells Berkshire pork. And if he does not have what I
want, he will order it for me. He buys organic pork from farmers in Oregon
and Idaho.

Victor, you are so right about the best places to buy. When the SBF and I
decided to meet the MIL at a Spa for Christmas, again this year, we chose
one in Budapest. And I have been scouring restaurant sites for those that
serve Mangalicsa.

Alan

"Michel Boucher" > wrote in message
...
> Roger1 > wrote in
> :
>
>>> I'm all for supporting local
>>> businesses but if I can get it for less money why should I pay more?
>>>
>>> Jill
>>
>> To support a local business?
>
> Odd how that simple thought eludes some people.
>
>
Why so snide? I buy vegetables from local farm stands. If there was a
chicken farm nearby I'd buy eggs and chicken from a local farmer.
Unfortunately there aren't any.

People on rfc are always going on and on about their wonderful farmer's
markets. I've never lived anywhere where one was nearly as nice nor as
convenient as I've heard described here. (Open four hours only on
Wednesday, 30 miles away isn't exactly convenient.) And they don't sell
eggs, cheese, meat or artisan breads. So sorry!

If I have to buy my sourdough bread at a chain grocery store; that's just
the way it is. I'd support local business if there WERE any local
businesses. I live near a tourist town, not a farming community. Some of
us don't have many choices. Get over it.

Jill

There's a small health food co-op on main street in town. No meats, just two
aisles of veggies, nuts and flours/cereals, etc.

It's so small I don't think the neighbors know they're there.

Andy

On Wed, 14 Oct 2009 20:25:03 -0700, "Motzarella" >
wrote:

>
>
>"Victor Sack" > wrote in message
. ..
>> jj > wrote:
>>
>>> I'm curious how many of you regularly shop at a small(er)/non-chain
>>> grocery store for "staple" food items?
>>
>> I do.
>>
>>> Could you also mention where in the world you live?
>>
>> Germany, where this is still normal enough, especially in smaller towns.
>>
>>> Alas, I am stuck with chain stores here in Las Vegas, NV.
>>
>> This might well be what we all will end up with, at some time in the
>> future, unfortunately...
>>
>>> The butcher shop was actually cheaper than the chains, the quality
>>> about the same and the variety better. I'm not sure if the owner was
>>> onsite.
>>
>> Very generally speaking, good-quality butcher shops are more expensive
>> than supermarkets, but they do tend to offer better quality and an
>> option of placing an order for something that is not available at the
>> moment (some food halls in department stores offer this option, too).
>> Some particular butcher shops are quite a bit more expensive, but they
>> offer really superior quality and rare types of meat (from animals
>> specially raised or from certain locations), as well as game. Bakeries
>> and greengrocers tend to be only marginally more expensive than
>> supermarkets (I am talking only about supermarkets that have a bakery
>> outlet, usually sublet to some actual bakery).
>>
>> Specialised fishmongers have become very rare, even in large cities.
>> This is a pity.
>>
>> Also, there are markets - real markets - with stalls that sometimes
>> offer very good quality stuff. The prices tend to be higher, on the
>> whole, than supermarket ones.
>>
>> Then there are farms selling their own produce etc., but they are
>> generally practical only for those who live within striking distance. I
>> rarely buy at the farms, none being close, but I did buy some sour
>> cherries (my very favourite berries) at a farm when I was visiting
>> friends who live nearby.
>>
>> Victor
>
>Were it not for farmers and butchers I would not have rediscovered real
>pork. When I was growing up, Pork flesh was a light to medium brown color.
>Now it's touted as the "other white meat." Dry and tough, but low in fat,
>brining has become de rigueur.
>
>About two years ago I happened to come across butcher farmer at a local
>street market. The man behind the stall was Heath Putnam, owner of Wooly
>Pigs ( http://www.woolypigs.com/_about.html). He was waxing poetic about
>pork bellies and roasts. I met several of his customers who told me stories
>of the best tasting piggies in the world. At about $25/lb, I said I would
>pass. He then showed me some Berkshire pork that he also raises. Intrigued,
>I bought a pork roast and a lb. of bacon. While more expensive than "normal"
>pork, I found it to be fragrant, tasty, tender and about the best pork I
>ever tasted. With that in mind, I went back the next week and bought two
>mangalitsa chops. Unbelievable!!!
>
>To bring the story full circle, a brand new butcher shop opened up about 9
>miles from me. And he sells Berkshire pork. And if he does not have what I
>want, he will order it for me. He buys organic pork from farmers in Oregon
>and Idaho.
>
>Victor, you are so right about the best places to buy. When the SBF and I
>decided to meet the MIL at a Spa for Christmas, again this year, we chose
>one in Budapest. And I have been scouring restaurant sites for those that
>serve Mangalicsa.
>
>Alan

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mangalitsa

This breed is used primarily for sausage making... were its meat so
desirous it would not be in such short supply. With sausage the
composition/texture is more important than meat flavor... with all the
spices applied and smoking no one can taste the pork anyway. Even
with cured/smoked ham, marinated ribs, and other thusly treated cuts
the flavor of the meat itself is secondary, even terciary when used as
a flavoring medium. For most people this breed contains too much fat
for the cuts most often roasted/grilled *fresh*... I would not want a
fresh ham from that breed.

I don't find today's "other white meat" too lean, too many simply
haven't a clue about how to properly cook the various pork cuts... if
one desires a fattier pork chop it's pretty silly to choose those from
the center cut loin... for more fat content choose blade or sirloin
chops... I mean yoose gotta be real pinheads to buy those so-called
boneless 'chops' and then claim they're too lean... they're well
trimmed de-boned center cut loin medallions, they're supposed to be
lean like Canadian bacon is supposed to be lean the same way American
bacon is supposed to be fatty.
Learn yer piggy:
http://www.askthemeatman.com/pork_loin_cuts.htm

jmcquown wrote:
> "Michel Boucher" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Roger1 > wrote in
>> :
>>
>>>> I'm all for supporting local
>>>> businesses but if I can get it for less money why should I pay more?
>>>>
>>>> Jill
>>>
>>> To support a local business?
>>
>> Odd how that simple thought eludes some people.
>>
>>
> Why so snide? I buy vegetables from local farm stands. If there was a
> chicken farm nearby I'd buy eggs and chicken from a local farmer.
> Unfortunately there aren't any.
>
> People on rfc are always going on and on about their wonderful farmer's
> markets. I've never lived anywhere where one was nearly as nice nor as
> convenient as I've heard described here. (Open four hours only on
> Wednesday, 30 miles away isn't exactly convenient.) And they don't sell
> eggs, cheese, meat or artisan breads. So sorry!
>
> If I have to buy my sourdough bread at a chain grocery store; that's
> just the way it is. I'd support local business if there WERE any local
> businesses. I live near a tourist town, not a farming community. Some
> of us don't have many choices. Get over it.
>
> Jill

Sometimes there are local businesses and people don't patronize them for
various reasons such as those places don't have the money to buy
mindshare like big box which has told everyone they are the best so
often people believe it.

We have a great large, clean ,reasonable locally owned market here. They
have an in house meat department and never have the walmart style
adulterated meats which have become a big box standard. Prices are
reasonable and they also make their own sausage both fresh and smoked
(which also sells for less than that hillsure junk). They have a huge
reasonably priced produce department.

I mention the place as often as I can and usually get responses like "I
never heard of it so it must be dirty". Or "I went there and the deli
meat looked really old" (they have 6 slicing stations and usually 3 are
going full bore-how "old" could the deli meat be?)

On Thu, 15 Oct 2009 03:56:44 -0500, Andy > wrote:

>There's a small health food co-op on main street in town. No meats, just two
>aisles of veggies, nuts and flours/cereals, etc.
>
>It's so small I don't think the neighbors know they're there.
>
>Andy


"Health Food", what idiotic nomenclature... labeling anything health
food is just a scammer's concept for charging double for half the
quality.

Motzarella wrote:
>
>
> "Victor Sack" > wrote in message
> .. .
>> jj > wrote:
>>
>>> I'm curious how many of you regularly shop at a small(er)/non-chain
>>> grocery store for "staple" food items?
>>
>> I do.
>>
>>> Could you also mention where in the world you live?
>>
>> Germany, where this is still normal enough, especially in smaller towns.
>>
>>> Alas, I am stuck with chain stores here in Las Vegas, NV.
>>
>> This might well be what we all will end up with, at some time in the
>> future, unfortunately...
>>
>>> The butcher shop was actually cheaper than the chains, the quality
>>> about the same and the variety better. I'm not sure if the owner was
>>> onsite.
>>
>> Very generally speaking, good-quality butcher shops are more expensive
>> than supermarkets, but they do tend to offer better quality and an
>> option of placing an order for something that is not available at the
>> moment (some food halls in department stores offer this option, too).
>> Some particular butcher shops are quite a bit more expensive, but they
>> offer really superior quality and rare types of meat (from animals
>> specially raised or from certain locations), as well as game. Bakeries
>> and greengrocers tend to be only marginally more expensive than
>> supermarkets (I am talking only about supermarkets that have a bakery
>> outlet, usually sublet to some actual bakery).
>>
>> Specialised fishmongers have become very rare, even in large cities.
>> This is a pity.
>>
>> Also, there are markets - real markets - with stalls that sometimes
>> offer very good quality stuff. The prices tend to be higher, on the
>> whole, than supermarket ones.
>>
>> Then there are farms selling their own produce etc., but they are
>> generally practical only for those who live within striking distance. I
>> rarely buy at the farms, none being close, but I did buy some sour
>> cherries (my very favourite berries) at a farm when I was visiting
>> friends who live nearby.
>>
>> Victor
>
> Were it not for farmers and butchers I would not have rediscovered real
> pork. When I was growing up, Pork flesh was a light to medium brown
> color. Now it's touted as the "other white meat." Dry and tough, but low
> in fat, brining has become de rigueur.


Th local evil family owned market we buy from only sells real pork. We
just enjoyed a porketta I roasted last night made from "real" pork.

>
> About two years ago I happened to come across butcher farmer at a local
> street market. The man behind the stall was Heath Putnam, owner of Wooly
> Pigs ( http://www.woolypigs.com/_about.html). He was waxing poetic about
> pork bellies and roasts. I met several of his customers who told me
> stories of the best tasting piggies in the world. At about $25/lb, I
> said I would pass. He then showed me some Berkshire pork that he also
> raises. Intrigued, I bought a pork roast and a lb. of bacon. While more
> expensive than "normal" pork, I found it to be fragrant, tasty, tender
> and about the best pork I ever tasted. With that in mind, I went back
> the next week and bought two mangalitsa chops. Unbelievable!!!
>
> To bring the story full circle, a brand new butcher shop opened up about
> 9 miles from me. And he sells Berkshire pork. And if he does not have
> what I want, he will order it for me. He buys organic pork from farmers
> in Oregon and Idaho.
>
> Victor, you are so right about the best places to buy. When the SBF and
> I decided to meet the MIL at a Spa for Christmas, again this year, we
> chose one in Budapest. And I have been scouring restaurant sites for
> those that serve Mangalicsa.
>
> Alan

"jmcquown" > wrote in news:7jo396F36ginjU1
@mid.individual.net:

> I live near a tourist town, not a farming community. Some of
> us don't have many choices. Get over it.

Unless I misunderstood, you were saying that less cost was your prime
directive, not your lack of choices. You quite specifically said:

> I'm all for supporting local
> businesses but if I can get it for less money why should I pay more?

In other words, you'll only support local businesses if they charge less
than the big box places, or that is what it sounds like. So you can hardly
find it odd that we see there what is written there.

--

Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest
of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest
good of everyone. - John Maynard Keynes

Michel wrote on Thu, 15 Oct 2009 08:08:11 -0500:

>> I live near a tourist town, not a farming community. Some of
>> us don't have many choices. Get over it.

> Unless I misunderstood, you were saying that less cost was
> your prime directive, not your lack of choices. You quite
> specifically said:

>> I'm all for supporting local
>> businesses but if I can get it for less money why should I
>> pay more?

> In other words, you'll only support local businesses if they
> charge less than the big box places, or that is what it sounds
> like. So you can hardly find it odd that we see there what is
> written there.

We used to buy most staples from the relatively inexpensive small local
chain that I mentioned and never had problems, AFAIK. However, price is
not the *only* determinant. Quality and selection are important and I
hope that there will always be places where I can get those, not just
the lowest price. On the other, tho' we used to buy meat and fish at the
small chain, the odors I have noticed from the fish counter have
discouraged me recently.

Stores concentrating mainly on price can have a bad effect on selection.
It's not food I know but a company called Crown Books outsold and bought
out a very large number of small bookstores. After a ferocious family
fight, Crown closed and now we have very few small local bookstores.


--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

> I'm curious how many of you regularly shop at a small(er)/non-chain
> grocery store for "staple" food items?
>
> By small, how about we say this means the grocery business only has
> locations in your city/town. (so no regional chains)

We have one independent store in town. I shop there on occasion and it is
a good place to pick up the in between items. Prices are often better than
the big chains. They cater to the walking locals and the nearby elderly
housing. Smaller that the chains, the selection is limited, but all the
basics are there.

Every couple of months we also go to the ethnic stores in other places. One
month may be Italian in Providence, RI, another Polish and Mediterranean in
Worcester, MA. We get all the specialty stuff then.

Major shopping is still BJ's once a month, Stop & Shop second.

On Oct 15, 7:25*am, brooklyn1 > wrote:
> On Wed, 14 Oct 2009 20:25:03 -0700, "Motzarella" >
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >"Victor Sack" > wrote in message
> . ..
> >> jj > wrote:
>
> >>> I'm curious how many of you regularly shop at a small(er)/non-chain
> >>> grocery store for "staple" food items?
>
> >> I do.
>
> >>> Could you also mention where in the world you live?
>
> >> Germany, where this is still normal enough, especially in smaller towns.
>
> >>> Alas, I am stuck with chain stores here in Las Vegas, NV.
>
> >> This might well be what we all will end up with, at some time in the
> >> future, unfortunately...
>
> >>> The butcher shop was actually cheaper than the chains, the quality
> >>> about the same and the variety better. *I'm not sure if the owner was
> >>> onsite.
>
> >> Very generally speaking, good-quality butcher shops are more expensive
> >> than supermarkets, but they do tend to offer better quality and an
> >> option of placing an order for something that is not available at the
> >> moment (some food halls in department stores offer this option, too).
> >> Some particular butcher shops are quite a bit more expensive, but they
> >> offer really superior quality and rare types of meat (from animals
> >> specially raised or from certain locations), as well as game. *Bakeries
> >> and greengrocers tend to be only marginally more expensive than
> >> supermarkets (I am talking only about supermarkets that have a bakery
> >> outlet, usually sublet to some actual bakery).
>
> >> Specialised fishmongers have become very rare, even in large cities.
> >> This is a pity.
>
> >> Also, there are markets - real markets - with stalls that sometimes
> >> offer very good quality stuff. *The prices tend to be higher, on the
> >> whole, than supermarket ones.
>
> >> Then there are farms selling their own produce etc., but they are
> >> generally practical only for those who live within striking distance. *I
> >> rarely buy at the farms, none being close, but I did buy some sour
> >> cherries (my very favourite berries) at a farm when I was visiting
> >> friends who live nearby.
>
> >> Victor
>
> >Were it not for farmers and butchers I would not have rediscovered real
> >pork. When I was growing up, Pork flesh was a light to medium brown color.

Motzarella > wrote:

> About two years ago I happened to come across butcher farmer at a local
> street market. The man behind the stall was Heath Putnam, owner of Wooly
> Pigs ( http://www.woolypigs.com/_about.html).

Very interesting! I've looked it up and the pigs are called exactly
that in German: Wollschweine. I have never seen such pork here, though.

> Victor, you are so right about the best places to buy. When the SBF and I
> decided to meet the MIL at a Spa for Christmas, again this year, we chose
> one in Budapest. And I have been scouring restaurant sites for those that
> serve Mangalicsa.

Hungarian food is great. Check out this site: <http://www.caboodle.hu/>
and enter your search terms. e.g. Budapest and Hungarian. Some of the
listed restaurants have a Web site with a menu.

Gundel, perhaps the best known and probably the most expensive
restaurant in Hungary, serves "Rack of Mangalica with Porcini-Pearl
Barley Soufflé and Paprika Ragout" at 8.900 HUF (about US$50 at the
current rate of exchange.
<http://www.gundel.hu/etterem/index.php?lang=en&mid=275>

Városfal Vendéglö serves "Roasted mangalica joint with fried potato" at
2.390 HUF, certainly more affordable.

Zsolt Udvar is said to serve Mangalica, too.
<http://www.budapesthotelstart.com/budapestinfo/zsoltudvar.en.html>

Victor

Michel Boucher > wrote:

> Before I start, really should point out that "to grocery shop" is
> not an appropriate verb form in English.

Disagree.

Steve