On May 1, 8:39Â*am, wrote:

Quite a lot of research there! Love the etymologies, thanks! :-)

> > > I remember grea tgolubtsi (meat-stuffed cabbage) with pink sour cream
> > > sauce that I often had in Druskininkai, Lithuania.
>
> > Those would be balandëliai ('little doves'),
>
> Yes, that's what "golubtsi" also mean in Russian and Ukrainian:
> 'little doves', in Belarusan ("galubtsi"), in Polish (golabki).
>
> Maždaug tuo metu patiekalas prBalandėliai (ru: голубцы, ukr.:
> голубці�, blt: галубцы, ln.: gołąbki, jd.: holishkes, �ek.: holubky).
> Maždaug tuo metu patiekalas prasiskverbė į Ukrainą, Lenkiją, Rusiją.
> Lietuvoje paplito XX a. pr.

> "Golub" means dove in Slavic languages. I am sure it has the same
> ancient roots as "columba" (sp?) in Latin, "colombo" in Italian and
> "colombe" in French. I hear the Lithuianian word for "swan" is quite
> similar.

> Â*The Russian word for "light blue" is "goluboy", coming from the color
> of pigeon's head.

Great stuff. I'll have to check out the gulbe / golub (columba)
coonection.

In Lithuanian we have koulmbariumas, from the Latin columbarium (also
used in English). Fascinating etymology.

> > The pink in the sour cream is of course from
> > barðèiai (grated boiled beetroot).
>
> Not the ones I had in Druskininkai. They were not purplish-pink but
> orange-pink. I am pretty sure it was sour cream Â*tomatoes, not beets..
> In Russia and Ukraine too, tomatoes in the sauce for "golubtsi" seem
> more common than beets.

OK. Interesting. More on linguistics: "tomatas" has come into
Lithuanian with a very special meaning. It is not tomato, that is
exclusively still pomidoras. It is not ketchup either, that is
ke�upas (Lithuanians love it now, despite never having heard of it
before 1991). No, what 'tomatas' is, is tomato sauce (like you buy in
a jar to use with macaroni or to add to soup) or tomato paste, like
the stuff you put on pizza.

> Here are 90 recipes of "golubtsi" from Russia, Ukraine, Yugoslavias,
> France (!!!) and other countries:

> They are derivatives of Ottoman Empire's dolma, as the Azeri name
> "Yarpaq dolması" and Tatar name "tulma" confirm.

> KÃ¥ldolmar are Swedish cabbage rolls filled with minced pork meat, and
> in some cases rice. In Sweden, the dish is considered to be a variety
> of the dolma, common in Eastern Mediterranean countries. It is first
> mentioned in a Swedish cookbook by Cajsa Warg in 1755. At that time it
> was still made from grape leaves but they were later replaced by
> cabbage leaves, being more readily available in Sweden.

Never thought of that. Because of the cabbage I sort of assumed that
they were "indigenous". Just goes to show. Perhaps one of the last
culinary frontiers for Lithuanians now is ginger. They still seem to
be afraid of it and think it's weird.

> Sour cream is rumoured to come from Russia and Karelia and is called
> €œsmetana€� in Russia, Ukraine, Poland, Czechia/Slovakia, Finland,
> Sweden, in Yiddish, etc. Even in German, its Schmetten.

> http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smetana...(dairy_product)
> Smetana is a Russian loanword in English for a dairy product that is
> produced by souring heavy cream. Smetana is from Central and Eastern
> Europe, a soured cream product like crème fraîche (28%), but much
> heavier and thicker with usually 36% to 42 % milkfat or even higher,
> more sour in taste than crème fraîche. It will not curdle when cooked
> or added to hot dishes. Its cooking properties are different from
> crème fraîche and the lighter sour creams sold in the U.S., which
> contain 12 to 16 percent butterfat.

I buy a low fat version here (8% I think) and it makes a great dip,
even without anything at all added, but you can add horeseradish and/
or ketchup, or else just herbs and spices or maybe finely chopped
green onion (great on baked or boiled potatoes too).

> In general, since Poland, Lithuania and (unwillingly) Ukraine and
> Belarus were the same country, these 4 cuisines are almost identical.
> Of course, other Baltic, Russian and Scandinavian cuisines are also
> quite similar, although Russia has also had a large food influence
> from the Caucuses/Turkey/Persia/Afghanistan/Korea/Central Asia (and
> often vise versa).

Yeah, not all of it successful. I think �eburekai are a dead loss.
All fat and carbohydrate, not much flavour €“ so they over-salt them

> Yes, most Eastern European countries have a wonderful range of breads
> available, but several Lithuanian breads are loved in Russia too.

Interesting.

> Personally, I never liked rye breads. I prefer French and Italian
> wheat-based breads (including baguette) and Soviet/Russian wheat bread
> €œbaton€�. Â*But, to keep my weight down, I seldom eat it, unless I have
> salmon or beluga caviar (great with blini, baton and baguette) or
> soft, gooey French cheese (baguette, ciabatta or walnut bread).

Ah, camembert or brie on fresh baguette €“ exquisite. Sometimes I
grate just a touch of good pepper onto it. Great with a glass of fine
wine.

> I think Lithuanian dairy products are highly respected in Russia. In
> Moscow supermarkets I saw butter, cheese, flavoured melted cheeses
> (syrki), Â*tvorog (farmers cheese), definitely smetana
> €œSvalia€�/«СвалÑ�» (among Russo-Ukraino-Jewish emigrants too, as one of
> the best emigrant sour creams is called €œLithuanian€�).

Didn't know that either. Actually, I'm surprised how few Russian food
products one sees on the supernmarket shelves here. Most of it comes
from Poland. I suspect it's to do with the fact that now you can just
drive in from Poland unchecked, whereas the queues of trucks at the
Russian border are often a nightmare that lasts for days. That eats
away at the profit margins, even if the product is reasonably cheap to
start with

> German flavoured melted cheese €œHochland€� is my favourite.. Of course,
> if you transliterate €œHochland€� into Russian - €œHohlandia€� €“ it sounds
> as if it is a colloquial name for Ukraine. :-)

Had any Tilsit cheese lately? I like it. Tilsit was important in
Lithuanian history, particularly during the ban on Lithuanian printing
(1864-1904) when Lithuanian books were printed in Tilsit and smuggled
into the country by knygnešiai. Don't know if nostalgia has anything
to do with it, but several brannds of Tilsit cheese are made in
Lithuania and seem to be resonably popular. As one get further away
from Tilsit, cheese makers start doing strange things to the product
and it is just not the same. (Maybe the grass in the Baltic region is
special? :-) It's certainly always green.

> Â* It and many other Russian €œglazirovannyj syrok€� firms use equipment
> supplied by Lithuanias PAKMA:
>
> http://www.pakma.lt/en
> JSC PAKMA has been the leading manufacturer of complete production
> lines for glazed curd cheeses during the last 15 years. Within the
> past five years we have launched over 70 lines on three world
> continents.

Rather amazing, actually.

> BTW, I found this image and story:
>
> http://valentinostw.wordpress.com/20...-surelis-3.jpg
>
> They look amazingly enticing. Do you know them?

Yes, they are great. In general cottage cheese is wonderful,
especially the low fat variety.

> > Sacrilege. Â*People who say that usually haven't been to Spain and
> > tasted decent olives (dozens of varieties and ways to prepare them)
> > nor decent Spanish olive oil. Â*(Which is golden, not greenish like the
> > Italian stuff, because the Spaniards don't pick green olives for olive
> > oil - the way the Italians do - they wait until they are black and
> > really full of delicious golden oil.)
>
> Agree. I will buy some Spanish oil to try it. Thanks.

Fabulous on salads, of course, but I even think that fish fried in
good Spanish olive oil acquires an extra dimension of taste.

> As far as olives go, I suspect I have tried Spanish olives before, but
> liked only nicoises olives, if I recall correctly.

Try the fat little olives called 'gordas'. ('gordo' means 'fat').

On Apr 30, 11:22 pm, Tadas Blinda > wrote:
> On May 1, 8:39 am, wrote:
>
> Quite a lot of research there! Love the etymologies, thanks! :-)
>

My pleasure. Two of my favourite topics: cuisine and etymology.

>
> > > > I remember great golubtsi (meat-stuffed cabbage) with pink sour cream
> > > > sauce that I often had in Druskininkai, Lithuania.
>
> > > Those would be balandëliai ('littledoves'),
>
> > Yes, that's what "golubtsi" also mean in Russian and Ukrainian:
> > 'littledoves', in Belarusan ("galubtsi"), in Polish (golabki).
>
> > Maždaug tuo metu patiekalas prBalandėliai (ru: голубцы, ukr.:
> > голубці�, blt: галубцы, ln.: gołąbki, jd.: holishkes, �ek.: holubky).
> > Maždaug tuo metu patiekalas prasiskverbė į Ukrainą, Lenkiją, Rusiją.
> > Lietuvoje paplito XX a. pr.
> > "Golub" means dove in Slavic languages. I am sure it has the same
> > ancient roots as "columba" (sp?) in Latin, "colombo" in Italian and
> > "colombe" in French. I hear the Lithuianian word for "swan" is quite
> > similar.
> > The Russian word for "light blue" is "goluboy", coming from the color
> > of pigeon's head.
>
> Great stuff. I'll have to check out the gulbe / golub (columba)
> coonection.
>
> In Lithuanian we have koulmbariumas, from the Latin columbarium (also
> used in English). Fascinating etymology.
>
> > > The pink in the sour cream is of course from
> > > barðèiai (grated boiled beetroot).
>
> > Not the ones I had in Druskininkai. They were not purplish-pink but
> > orange-pink. I am pretty sure it was sour cream tomatoes, not beets.
> > In Russia and Ukraine too, tomatoes in the sauce for "golubtsi" seem
> > more common than beets.
>
> OK. Interesting. More on linguistics: "tomatas" has come into
> Lithuanian with a very special meaning. It is not tomato, that is
> exclusively still pomidoras. It is not ketchup either, that is
> ke�upas (Lithuanians love it now, despite never having heard of it
> before 1991). No, what 'tomatas' is, is tomato sauce (like you buy in
> a jar to use with macaroni or to add to soup) or tomato paste, like
> the stuff you put on pizza.
>

Same in Russian. The real tomato berries are called €œpomidori, while
the tomato juice and tomato paste are called €œtomatni sok€� and
€œtomatnaia pasta€�.

€œTomato€� is, afaik, a Native American word (I dont know which tribe),
while €œpomodoro€� is Italian for €œgolden apple€�.

>
> > Here are 90 recipes of "golubtsi" from Russia, Ukraine, Yugoslavias,
> > France (!!!) and other countries:
> > They are derivatives of Ottoman Empire's dolma, as the Azeri name
> > "Yarpaq dolması" and Tatar name "tulma" confirm.
> > KÃ¥ldolmar are Swedish cabbage rolls filled with minced pork meat, and
> > in some cases rice. In Sweden, the dish is considered to be a variety
> > of the dolma, common in Eastern Mediterranean countries. It is first
> > mentioned in a Swedish cookbook by Cajsa Warg in 1755. At that time it
> > was still made from grape leaves but they were later replaced by
> > cabbage leaves, being more readily available in Sweden.
>
> Never thought of that. Because of the cabbage I sort of assumed that
> they were "indigenous". Just goes to show. Perhaps one of the last
> culinary frontiers for Lithuanians now is ginger. They still seem to
> be afraid of it and think it's weird.
>

I think you are partially mistaken. Ginger (€œimbir€� in Russian) is an
ancient ingredient in traditional Russian foods like
€œprianiki€� (English Gingerbread, German €žPfefferkuchen (pepper
cookies), Pfeffernüssen (pepper nuts)€œ. Polish €žpiernik€�), which comes
from the word €žprianost€œ €“ spice. There are probably more than a
thousand €žprianik€œ recipes, most involving ginger and honey..

Ginger is also used in ancient Russian recipes for kvass, various
fruit drinks, mead, other alcoholic drinks, etc. The Russian Wiki says
that almost all cultures use ginger in baked foods and drinks. I am
sure Lithuanians are just as avid and ancient users of ginger as their
neighbours: Russians, Poles, and Germans. I bet Lithuanians have used
it both in kvass and in their own versions of €žprianiki€œ:

In fact, I just read in Russian Wiki, that the Czech city of Pardubice
is famous for its €žperniki€œ. So, I went the

http://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pern%C3%ADk

And it says:

€žTradice výroby pernÃ*ku do dneÅ¡nÃ*ch dnů pÅ™etrvala v Brémách, MnichovÄ›,
Norimberku, Amsterdamu, belgickém Liège, Klajpedě, Gdaňsku �i Toruni.
V ÄŒesku je nejznámÄ›jÅ¡Ã* pardubický pernÃ*k..€œ

Notice: €žKlajpeda€œ, in the venerable company of several other cities
from all over Europe.

Whats probably new for Europe is the use of ginger in savoury dishes,
which had previously been a Chinese/Indian tradition.

On May 26, 10:58Â*am, wrote:

> > More on linguistics: "tomatas" has come into
> > Lithuanian with a very special meaning. Â*It is not tomato, that is
> > exclusively still pomidoras. Â*It is not ketchup either, that is
> > ke�upas (Lithuanians love it now, despite never having heard of it
> > before 1991). Â*No, what 'tomatas' is, is tomato sauce (like you buy in
> > a jar to use with macaroni or to add to soup) or tomato paste, like
> > the stuff you put on pizza.

> Same in Russian. The real tomato berries are called €œpomidori, while
> the tomato juice and tomato paste are called €œtomatni sok€� and
> €œtomatnaia pasta€�.
>
> €œTomato€� is, afaik, a Native American word (I dont know which tribe),
> while €œpomodoro€� is Italian for €œgolden apple€�.

Good old Wikipedia:

The tomato (Solanum lycopersicum, syn. Lycopersicon lycopersicum &
Lycopersicon esculentum[1]) is an herbaceous, usually sprawling plant
in the Solanaceae or nightshade family, as are its close cousins
potatoes, chili peppers, tobacco, eggplant and the poisonous
belladonna. It is a perennial, often grown outdoors in temperate
climates as an annual. Typically reaching to 1€“3 metres (3€“10 ft) in
height, it has a weak, woody stem that often vines over other plants.
The leaves are 10€“25 centimetres (4€“10 in) long, odd pinnate, with 5€“9
leaflets on petioles,[2] each leaflet up to 8 centimetres (3 in) long,
with a serrated margin; both the stem and leaves are densely glandular-
hairy. The flowers are 1€“2 centimetres (0.4€“0.8 in) across, yellow,
with five pointed lobes on the corolla; they are borne in a cyme of 3€“
12 together.

The tomato is native to South America. Genetic evidence shows that the
progenitors of tomatoes were herbaceous green plants with small green
fruit with a center of diversity in the highlands of Peru. [3]These
early Solanums diversified into the dozen or so species of tomato
recognized today. One species, Solanum lycopersicum, was transported
to Mexico where it was grown and consumed by prehistoric humans. The
exact date of domestication is not known. Evidence supports the theory
the first domesticated tomato was a little yellow fruit, ancestor of
L. cerasiforme,[citation needed] grown by the Aztecs of Central Mexico
who called it "xitomatl (pronounced IPA: [ʃi�tomatɬ]), meaning plump
thing with a navel, and later called tomatl by other Mesoamerican
peoples. Aztec writings mention tomatoes were prepared with peppers,
corn and salt, likely to be the original salsa recipe.

Some people believe that the Spanish explorer Cortez may have been the
first to transfer the small yellow tomato to Europe after he captured
the Aztec city of TenochtÃ*tlan , now Mexico City in 1521. Yet others
believe Christopher Columbus, an Italian working for the Spanish
monarchy, discovered the tomato earlier in 1493. The earliest
discussion of the tomato in European literature appeared in an herbal
written in 1544 by Pietro Andrea Mattioli, an Italian physician and
botanist, who named it pomi doro, golden apple.

The word tomato comes from a word in the Nahuatl language, tomatl. The
specific name, lycopersicum, means "wolf-peach" (compare the related
species Solanum lycocarpum, whose scientific name means "wolf-fruit",
common name "wolf-apple"), as they are a major food of wild canids in
South America.[citation needed]

What would we do without the Solanaceae or nightshade family?

> > Never thought of that. Â*Because of the cabbage I sort of assumed that
> > they were "indigenous". Â*Just goes to show. Â*Perhaps one of the last
> > culinary frontiers for Lithuanians now is ginger. Â*They still seem to
> > be afraid of it and think it's weird.
>
> I think you are partially mistaken. Ginger (€œimbir€� in Russian) is an
> ancient ingredient in traditional Russian foods like
> €œprianiki€� (English Gingerbread, German €žPfefferkuchen (pepper
> cookies), Pfeffernüssen (pepper nuts)€œ. Polish €žpiernik€�), which comes
> from the word €žprianost€œ €“ spice. There are probably more than a
> thousand €žprianik€œ recipes, most involving ginger and honey.
>
> Ginger is also used in ancient Russian recipes for kvass, various
> fruit drinks, mead, other alcoholic drinks, etc. The Russian Wiki says
> that almost all cultures use ginger in baked foods and drinks. I am
> sure Lithuanians are just as avid and ancient users of ginger as their
> neighbours: Russians, Poles, and Germans. I bet Lithuanians have used
> it both in kvass and in their own versions of €žprianiki€œ:

Yes, that's true, but as you go on to say:

> Whats probably new for Europe is the use of ginger in savoury dishes,
> which had previously been a Chinese/Indian tradition.

I see ginger at the local supermarket in Kaunas but it moves very
slowly. I have yet to personally encounter anyone that uses it. I
just love the lift it gives to stir fry, stews and soups. I add it to
my own home made fish soup.

A curious thing he celery doesn't seem to exist. They import
mangos and papayas, but for some reason, no celery. No one has heard
of it. If you look up 'celery' in an EN <> LT dictionary, you get
'salieras', but the salieras that is sold in the shops is not the
green celery at all, but the white root celeriac (Apium graveolens
rapaceum). Grated celeriac is a good filler to give low-calory bulk
(and fibre) to salads.

Just for a laugh I took my dad (89 years old) to McDonalds in Kaunas
recently. Not cheap, seemed to be full of rich brats. Just in case
you ever need to know, in Lithuanian "burger, thickshake and fries" is
"mÄ—sainis, pieno kokteilis ir bulvÄ—s fri". The last bit is curious,
pronounced 'free'. Sort of used like an indeclinable adjective.
(BulvÄ—s is potatoes €“ related to the english 'bulb'.)