In article >,
"Nancy Young" > wrote:

> Gloria P wrote:
> > Omelet wrote:
> >> In article >,
> >> Gloria P > wrote:
> >>
> >>> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
> >>>> On Thu 11 Dec 2008 06:49:51p, Janet Wilder told us...
> >>>>> This is a bit out of context, but isn't it shameful that we
> >>>>> readily ease the suffering of our pets and make humans suffer
> >>>>> horribly?
> >>>>>
> >>>> I totally agree.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> Not so sure. It's one thing to put Boots out of her misery,
> >>> but Grandma??? Not so sure. AFAIAC she can decide for herself, but
> >>> no one else should be able or willing to decide for her.
> >>>
> >>> gloria p
> >>
> >> But she should be ALLOWED to decide that for herself.
> >
> >
> > That's what I said.
> >
> >> Suicide is not legal.
> >
> > So how are they gonna punish you for it, kill you?
> > Irony intended.
>
> They'd certainly punish any doctor they knew helped end
> your misery. Hell, they punish doctors for giving people
> enough pain medication.
>
> nancy

Isn't Kevorkian in jail?
--
Peace! Om

"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them humanity cannot survive." -- Dalai Lama

Omelet > wrote:

> "Nancy Young" > wrote:

>> They'd certainly punish any doctor they knew helped end
>> your misery. Hell, they punish doctors for giving people
>> enough pain medication.

>Isn't Kevorkian in jail?

My belief is medical euthanasia was common in the U.S. until about 20
years ago. It just wasn't official.

Steve

In article >,
(Steve Pope) wrote:

> Omelet > wrote:
>
> > "Nancy Young" > wrote:
>
> >> They'd certainly punish any doctor they knew helped end
> >> your misery. Hell, they punish doctors for giving people
> >> enough pain medication.
>
> >Isn't Kevorkian in jail?
>
> My belief is medical euthanasia was common in the U.S. until about 20
> years ago. It just wasn't official.
>
> Steve

I think it still is.
It's just gone underground...
--
Peace! Om

"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them humanity cannot survive." -- Dalai Lama

Wayne Boatwright wrote:
> On Fri 12 Dec 2008 12:08:30p, Gloria P told us...
>
>> Damsel in dis Dress wrote:
>>> On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 12:20:08 -0600, Omelet >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Suicide is not legal.
>>> I'd love to see the cops show up at a mortuary to arrest a successful
>>> suicide. I attempted once and wasn't arrested. I know lots of people
>>> who have attempted and no legal action was ever taken against them. I
>>> wonder why that law even exists?
>>>
>>> Carol
>>
>> To deter the wimps.
>>
>> OB Food: I don't know what my last meal would be, but I think I'd
>> want either bacon or lobster to play a big part.
>>
>> gloria p
>
> I would think that would depend on what state of health and what state of
> mind you were in at the time.



If you were about to commit suicide would you really worry about your
cholesterol? Work with me here!

gloria p

On Fri 12 Dec 2008 01:20:38p, Gloria P told us...

> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>> On Fri 12 Dec 2008 12:08:30p, Gloria P told us...
>>
>>> Damsel in dis Dress wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 12:20:08 -0600, Omelet >
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Suicide is not legal.
>>>> I'd love to see the cops show up at a mortuary to arrest a successful
>>>> suicide. I attempted once and wasn't arrested. I know lots of people
>>>> who have attempted and no legal action was ever taken against them. I
>>>> wonder why that law even exists?
>>>>
>>>> Carol
>>>
>>> To deter the wimps.
>>>
>>> OB Food: I don't know what my last meal would be, but I think I'd
>>> want either bacon or lobster to play a big part.
>>>
>>> gloria p
>>
>> I would think that would depend on what state of health and what state
of
>> mind you were in at the time.
>
>
>
> If you were about to commit suicide would you really worry about your
> cholesterol? Work with me here!
>
> gloria p
>

I was thinking more in terms of what if your health issues prevented you
from swallowing.

--
Wayne Boatwright
(correct the spelling of "geemail" to reply)
************************************************** **********************
Date: Friday, 12(XII)/12(XII)/08(MMVIII)
************************************************** **********************
Countdown till Christmas Day
1wks 5dys 10hrs 22mins
************************************************** **********************
A guru is somone who knows more jargon than you.
************************************************** **********************

Omelet wrote:
> In article >,
> Damsel in dis Dress > wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 12:20:08 -0600, Omelet >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Suicide is not legal.
>> I'd love to see the cops show up at a mortuary to arrest a successful
>> suicide. I attempted once and wasn't arrested. I know lots of people
>> who have attempted and no legal action was ever taken against them. I
>> wonder why that law even exists?
>>
>> Carol
>
> They are not arrested, but if they make it to the ER, they are most
> often "committed" if they survive.

More accurately they get a psych eval.

Goomba wrote:

>>
>> They are not arrested, but if they make it to the ER, they are most
>> often "committed" if they survive.
>
> More accurately they get a psych eval.


One of my previous neighbours was a denturist and he told me about one
of his patients who had to get dentures because his front teeth had been
shot out. He asked the guy about the "accident" and the guy said "Hey, I
was going through a rough time and wanted to end it but I screwed up."
This summer I was helping my neighbour and one of the other guys helping
had a friend drop by. This guy was quite a character, former biker,
former speed freak, ongoing alcoholic and Jesus freak. I hadn't known
the guy more than a half hour when his incessant chatter led to him
telling about how he shot his front teeth out in a botched suicide attempt.

Dave Smith wrote:

> One of my previous neighbours was a denturist and he told me about one
> of his patients who had to get dentures because his front teeth had
> been shot out. He asked the guy about the "accident" and the guy said
> "Hey, I was going through a rough time and wanted to end it but I
> screwed up." This summer I was helping my neighbour and one of the
> other guys helping had a friend drop by. This guy was quite a
> character, former biker, former speed freak, ongoing alcoholic and
> Jesus freak. I hadn't known
> the guy more than a half hour when his incessant chatter led to him
> telling about how he shot his front teeth out in a botched suicide
> attempt.

Wow, I wonder if he ever met your denturist's patient.

nancy

Nancy Young wrote:
> Dave Smith wrote:
>
>> One of my previous neighbours was a denturist and he told me about one
>> of his patients who had to get dentures because his front teeth had
>> been shot out. He asked the guy about the "accident" and the guy said
>> "Hey, I was going through a rough time and wanted to end it but I
>> screwed up." This summer I was helping my neighbour and one of the
>> other guys helping had a friend drop by. This guy was quite a
>> character, former biker, former speed freak, ongoing alcoholic and
>> Jesus freak. I hadn't known the guy more than a half hour when his
>> incessant chatter led to him
>> telling about how he shot his front teeth out in a botched suicide
>> attempt.
>
> Wow, I wonder if he ever met your denturist's patient.
> nancy


Only when he looked in a mirror. It was the same guy.

In article >,
blake murphy > wrote:

> On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 21:37:54 -0500, Nancy Young wrote:

> even so, some people keep their pets too long to assuage guilty feelings
> about putting them down.
>
> it's true, though, that you can't ask them how they feel about it.

I think you've put your finger on part of the problem, here. By the
time many people need to make a decision, they are no longer capable of
making decisions, and sometimes are unable to communicate.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

Dave Smith wrote:
> Nancy Young wrote:
>> Dave Smith wrote:
>>
>>> One of my previous neighbours was a denturist and he told me about
>>> one of his patients who had to get dentures because his front teeth
>>> had been shot out. He asked the guy about the "accident" and the
>>> guy said "Hey, I was going through a rough time and wanted to end
>>> it but I screwed up." This summer I was helping my neighbour and
>>> one of the other guys helping had a friend drop by. This guy was
>>> quite a character, former biker, former speed freak, ongoing
>>> alcoholic and Jesus freak. I hadn't known the guy more than a half
>>> hour when his incessant chatter led to him
>>> telling about how he shot his front teeth out in a botched suicide
>>> attempt.
>>
>> Wow, I wonder if he ever met your denturist's patient.
>> nancy
>
>
> Only when he looked in a mirror. It was the same guy.

(laugh) I know, I was joshing you.

nancy

"Giusi" > wrote in message
...
> "Gloria P" -060.
>>
>> OB Food: I don't know what my last meal would be, but I think I'd
>> want either bacon or lobster to play a big part.
>>
>> gloria p
>
> Then off to Gaithersburg, MD, where Roy's serves "Loves's Sweet Dream"
> which is chunky lobster salad with faintly garlicky mayonnaise, strips of
> bacon, tomato, lettuce on half a French baguette.
>

Roy's?

On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 17:00:09 -0500, Goomba >
wrote:

>Omelet wrote:
>> In article >,
>> Damsel in dis Dress > wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 12:20:08 -0600, Omelet >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Suicide is not legal.
>>> I'd love to see the cops show up at a mortuary to arrest a successful
>>> suicide. I attempted once and wasn't arrested. I know lots of people
>>> who have attempted and no legal action was ever taken against them. I
>>> wonder why that law even exists?
>>>
>>> Carol
>>
>> They are not arrested, but if they make it to the ER, they are most
>> often "committed" if they survive.
>
>More accurately they get a psych eval.

72 hour hold is the norm here in Minnesota.

Orlando Enrique Fiol wrote:
> wrote:>
>> I underwent horrid radiation treatments and had unpredicted nightmare
>> side-effects including a ruptured colon because my family felt I should
>> have the treatment. I was not really willing to undergo it, but I could
>> not let them down. I love them and care about them. Talk to most cancer
>> patients and they will tell you that they are undergoing or have
>> undergone treatment because their loved ones expected it of them.
>
> Undergoing finite treatments can feel very different from making permanent
> lifestyle changes that deny people certain pleasures.

Head and neck radiation results in permanent life-style changes. Walk a
few steps in the moccasins of someone who has gone through it before you
make such a comment.
>
>> BTW,many, many people live happy productive lives with congestive heart
>> failure and Diabetes. My husband has both and we just got back from a
>> trip to Europe that he promised me as a get well present.
>
>
> What about people who don't have enough money to buy their spouses trips to
> Europe as "get well" presents? Especially for poor people who can't afford many
> luxuries, cigarettes, alcohol or favorite foods are the only pleasures some
> people come to know.

Have you looked at the price of cigarettes lately? It's a pretty costly
habit.
--
Janet Wilder
Bad spelling. Bad punctuation
Good Friends. Good Life

Dan Abel wrote:
> In article >,
> blake murphy > wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 21:37:54 -0500, Nancy Young wrote:
>
>> even so, some people keep their pets too long to assuage guilty feelings
>> about putting them down.
>>
>> it's true, though, that you can't ask them how they feel about it.
>
> I think you've put your finger on part of the problem, here. By the
> time many people need to make a decision, they are no longer capable of
> making decisions, and sometimes are unable to communicate.
>

Then they should be able to say so in their durable power of
attorney/living will. It shouldn't be all about feeding tubes and plugs.
The person executing the document should be able to define the quality
of life that they would want to end it on.

--
Janet Wilder
Bad spelling. Bad punctuation
Good Friends. Good Life

In article >,
Janet Wilder > wrote:

> Dan Abel wrote:
> > In article >,
> > blake murphy > wrote:
> >
> >> On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 21:37:54 -0500, Nancy Young wrote:
> >
> >> even so, some people keep their pets too long to assuage guilty feelings
> >> about putting them down.
> >>
> >> it's true, though, that you can't ask them how they feel about it.
> >
> > I think you've put your finger on part of the problem, here. By the
> > time many people need to make a decision, they are no longer capable of
> > making decisions, and sometimes are unable to communicate.
> >
>
> Then they should be able to say so in their durable power of
> attorney/living will. It shouldn't be all about feeding tubes and plugs.
> The person executing the document should be able to define the quality
> of life that they would want to end it on.

That's most often left up to the personal physician...
--
Peace! Om

"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them humanity cannot survive." -- Dalai Lama

Janet Wilder wrote:
> Dan Abel wrote:

>> I think you've put your finger on part of the problem, here. By the
>> time many people need to make a decision, they are no longer capable
>> of making decisions, and sometimes are unable to communicate.
>>
>
> Then they should be able to say so in their durable power of
> attorney/living will. It shouldn't be all about feeding tubes and plugs.
> The person executing the document should be able to define the quality
> of life that they would want to end it on.
>
I've said it before and I'll say it again. It is imperative that the
person drawing up this document also has expressed these wishes to the
family and they discuss (read:agree) to respect the wishes of the
patient. All too often I've seen families (or probably more often, just
a fragment of the family) disagree and get all emotional/guilt ridden
and demand everything be done! "Whose going to end up suing me if I
do/don't act?" the physician may ask himself? Most physicians I know
have no problem respecting the patient's wishes, especially when the
quality of life will never be there again, but just as families
sometimes have a hard time letting go, physicians too can have problems
feeling like they've failed if they just give up. At other times staff
may feel the patient has exhausted all options and to continue to
"treat" is more like "torture" and they can request impartial input from
an Ethics Committee.
It is complicated stuff and if just the patient and family discussed it
before it was ever a need, I think so much of the problem could be avoided.

Janet Wilder wrote:

> Dan Abel wrote:
>
>> In article >,
>> blake murphy > wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 21:37:54 -0500, Nancy Young wrote:
>>
>>
>>> even so, some people keep their pets too long to assuage guilty feelings
>>> about putting them down.
>>>
>>> it's true, though, that you can't ask them how they feel about it.
>>
>>
>> I think you've put your finger on part of the problem, here. By the
>> time many people need to make a decision, they are no longer capable
>> of making decisions, and sometimes are unable to communicate.
>>
>
> Then they should be able to say so in their durable power of
> attorney/living will. It shouldn't be all about feeding tubes and plugs.
> The person executing the document should be able to define the quality
> of life that they would want to end it on.
>

I have made this abundantly clear to not only my next of kin, but those
further on down the line, should the nearest and dearest show signs of
chickening out.

I would be willing to accept a certain level of diminishment of
capacity, down to, say, the level of your average house cat. No, maybe
I wouldn't be doing any algebra, but if I could feed myself, use the
litterbox (aka toilet), and enjoy lying in the sun, that would be okay
(destroying furniture would be a bonus).

But I don't want to be a potted plant.

On Fri 12 Dec 2008 09:28:10p, Kathleen told us...

> Janet Wilder wrote:
>
>> Dan Abel wrote:
>>
>>> In article >,
>>> blake murphy > wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 21:37:54 -0500, Nancy Young wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> even so, some people keep their pets too long to assuage guilty
feelings
>>>> about putting them down.
>>>>
>>>> it's true, though, that you can't ask them how they feel about it.
>>>
>>>
>>> I think you've put your finger on part of the problem, here. By the
>>> time many people need to make a decision, they are no longer capable
>>> of making decisions, and sometimes are unable to communicate.
>>>
>>
>> Then they should be able to say so in their durable power of
>> attorney/living will. It shouldn't be all about feeding tubes and plugs.
>> The person executing the document should be able to define the quality
>> of life that they would want to end it on.
>>
>
> I have made this abundantly clear to not only my next of kin, but those
> further on down the line, should the nearest and dearest show signs of
> chickening out.
>
> I would be willing to accept a certain level of diminishment of
> capacity, down to, say, the level of your average house cat. No, maybe
> I wouldn't be doing any algebra, but if I could feed myself, use the
> litterbox (aka toilet), and enjoy lying in the sun, that would be okay
> (destroying furniture would be a bonus).
>
> But I don't want to be a potted plant.
>
>

Plant, no. But it might be fun to be potted!

--
Wayne Boatwright
(correct the spelling of "geemail" to reply)
************************************************** **********************
Date: Friday, 12(XII)/12(XII)/08(MMVIII)
************************************************** **********************
Countdown till Christmas Day
1wks 5dys 2hrs 24mins
************************************************** **********************
'The fog comes on little cat feet . . .' --Carl Sandburg
(Obviously, Mr. Sandburg never heard a cat walk across a linoleum
floor.)

In article >,
Goomba > wrote:

> Omelet wrote:
> > In article >,
> > Damsel in dis Dress > wrote:
> >
> >> On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 12:20:08 -0600, Omelet >
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Suicide is not legal.
> >> I'd love to see the cops show up at a mortuary to arrest a successful
> >> suicide. I attempted once and wasn't arrested. I know lots of people
> >> who have attempted and no legal action was ever taken against them. I
> >> wonder why that law even exists?
> >>
> >> Carol
> >
> > They are not arrested, but if they make it to the ER, they are most
> > often "committed" if they survive.
>
> More accurately they get a psych eval.

I stand corrected... All I know is that they end up at Laurel Ridge.
They run ETOH levels until they are under 100mg/dl. LR won't take them
if they are still drunk.

Many of them are when they come in.

BTW Goomba, you might like this one. We've recently switched over to the
"Meditech" computer system, so the basic admitting diagnosis/complaint
is printed on the patient orders. We saw a very interesting one the
other day "Patient can't feel their body".

They were positive for Opiates.
--
Peace! Om

"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them humanity cannot survive." -- Dalai Lama

On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 03:47:04 GMT, "smiley" >
wrote:

>
>"Nathalie Chiva" <Nathaliedotchivaatgmail.remove.com> wrote in message
.. .
>> On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 12:44:09 -0600, Omelet >
>> wrote:
>> My mother must be lucky, she never mentioned nauseas. My best friend,
>> who has just been diagnosed diabetic (3 weeks ago, and a hopping high
>> sugar count too, 8 months after a perfectly normal one) says it
>> affects her eyesight. I'm uncertain whether it's not actually the
>> diabetes which does that, but she insists that her eyesight started
>> failing after she started taking Glucophage.
>>
>> Nathalie in Switzerland
>
>As Glucophageyes does not usually cause vision problems I suggest that your
>mother see her doctor ASAP.
>
>Regards
>S
>

I was actually talking about my friend, and she is seeing her doctor
every Friday these days, as the onset of her diabetes was so sudden
that he wants to her follow closely till she has it under control.

Nathalie in Switzerland

On Sat, 13 Dec 2008 04:37:17 GMT, Wayne Boatwright wrote:

> On Fri 12 Dec 2008 09:28:10p, Kathleen told us...
>
>>
>> I have made this abundantly clear to not only my next of kin, but those
>> further on down the line, should the nearest and dearest show signs of
>> chickening out.
>>
>> I would be willing to accept a certain level of diminishment of
>> capacity, down to, say, the level of your average house cat. No, maybe
>> I wouldn't be doing any algebra, but if I could feed myself, use the
>> litterbox (aka toilet), and enjoy lying in the sun, that would be okay
>> (destroying furniture would be a bonus).
>>
>> But I don't want to be a potted plant.
>>
>
> Plant, no. But it might be fun to be potted!

you certainly don't have to wait until you're almost dead to do that.

your pal,
blake

I read in here that some doctor had "DNR" tattooed to his chest in case
he was ever in a position for "Heroic measures" to be taken to "sustain
life". I have thought, since then, of doing the same! I emailed my
young doctor (I call him Doogey, because although he's 39, he looks
about 17, to me) that IF I should ever be brought in to the emergency
room and IF they called him and IF I was pronounced "dead", they BETTER
NOT "brring me back".

I have no fear of BEING dead...I have a BIG fear of the dying process.
If I ever MAKE IT to "dead", for crissake, LEAVE ME THERE. I will be
one ****ed off mofo IF I "wake up" alive AFTER I have seen the White
Light.....grumble cuss, mutherjumper....

Now, if I were 30, I'fd feel differently, Im sure. But at almost 60,
frankly, I feel like any kind of sudden Death NOW beats being "revived"
and looking foreward to....what? Dying ANYWAY five-to -ten years from
now of some kind of gawd-awful cancer or something?

Screw that...Once Im officially "Dead", Puhleeeeeeeze, LEAVE me that
way.

LassChance

On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 12:28:18 -0600, Damsel in dis Dress wrote:

> On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 12:20:08 -0600, Omelet >
> wrote:
>
>>Suicide is not legal.
>
> I'd love to see the cops show up at a mortuary to arrest a successful
> suicide. I attempted once and wasn't arrested. I know lots of people
> who have attempted and no legal action was ever taken against them. I
> wonder why that law even exists?
>
> Carol

it's bad form for the joint to be cluttered up with despondent corpses.

your pal,
blake

On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 20:12:37 +0100, Giusi wrote:

> "Gloria P" -060.
>>
>> OB Food: I don't know what my last meal would be, but I think I'd
>> want either bacon or lobster to play a big part.
>>
>> gloria p
>
> Then off to Gaithersburg, MD, where Roy's serves "Loves's Sweet Dream" which
> is chunky lobster salad with faintly garlicky mayonnaise, strips of bacon,
> tomato, lettuce on half a French baguette.

i've never been to roy's, but my dad swore by it when it was in rockville
(md).

your pal,
blake

On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 19:57:26 -0500, Cheryl wrote:

> "Giusi" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Gloria P" -060.
>>>
>>> OB Food: I don't know what my last meal would be, but I think I'd
>>> want either bacon or lobster to play a big part.
>>>
>>> gloria p
>>
>> Then off to Gaithersburg, MD, where Roy's serves "Loves's Sweet Dream"
>> which is chunky lobster salad with faintly garlicky mayonnaise, strips of
>> bacon, tomato, lettuce on half a French baguette.
>>
>
> Roy's?

an institution in montgomery county, known for an outlandish array of
sandwiches:

<http://www.roysplacerestaurant.com/menu.html>

your pal,
blake

On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 20:40:17 GMT, Wayne Boatwright wrote:

> On Fri 12 Dec 2008 01:20:38p, Gloria P told us...
>
>> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>>> On Fri 12 Dec 2008 12:08:30p, Gloria P told us...
>>>
>>>>
>>>> OB Food: I don't know what my last meal would be, but I think I'd
>>>> want either bacon or lobster to play a big part.
>>>>
>>>> gloria p
>>>
>>> I would think that would depend on what state of health and what state
> of
>>> mind you were in at the time.
>>
>> If you were about to commit suicide would you really worry about your
>> cholesterol? Work with me here!
>>
>> gloria p
>>
>
> I was thinking more in terms of what if your health issues prevented you
> from swallowing.

blender and i.v. line to the rescue!

your pal,
blake

On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 14:11:22 -0500, Nancy Young wrote:

> Gloria P wrote:
>> Omelet wrote:
>>>
>>> But she should be ALLOWED to decide that for herself.
>>
>> That's what I said.
>>
>>> Suicide is not legal.
>>
>> So how are they gonna punish you for it, kill you?
>> Irony intended.
>
> They'd certainly punish any doctor they knew helped end
> your misery. Hell, they punish doctors for giving people
> enough pain medication.
>
> nancy

it's a disgrace, isn't it? the d.e.a. should butt out unless the doctor is
obviously a pill-pusher (i.e., writing dozens of prescriptions a day).

your pal,
blake

On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 13:57:14 -0600, Omelet wrote:

> In article >,
> (Steve Pope) wrote:
>
>> Omelet > wrote:
>>
>>> "Nancy Young" > wrote:
>>
>>>> They'd certainly punish any doctor they knew helped end
>>>> your misery. Hell, they punish doctors for giving people
>>>> enough pain medication.
>>
>>>Isn't Kevorkian in jail?
>>
>> My belief is medical euthanasia was common in the U.S. until about 20
>> years ago. It just wasn't official.
>>
>> Steve
>
> I think it still is.
> It's just gone underground...

i suppose you have to 'know someone,' the way abortions used to be.

your pal,
blake

"blake murphy" > wrote
>
> blender and i.v. line to the rescue!
>

If I had to take my lobster in liquid form I believe I'd rather let the old
boy live out his fishy little life.

blake murphy wrote:
> On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 14:11:22 -0500, Nancy Young wrote:

>> They'd certainly punish any doctor they knew helped end
>> your misery. Hell, they punish doctors for giving people
>> enough pain medication.

> it's a disgrace, isn't it? the d.e.a. should butt out unless the
> doctor is obviously a pill-pusher (i.e., writing dozens of
> prescriptions a day).

It's ridiculous, and so many people suffer for it.

nancy

In article >, LassChance_
says...
> I read in here that some doctor had "DNR" tattooed to his chest in case
> he was ever in a position for "Heroic measures" to be taken to "sustain
> life". I have thought, since then, of doing the same! I emailed my
> young doctor (I call him Doogey, because although he's 39, he looks
> about 17, to me) that IF I should ever be brought in to the emergency
> room and IF they called him and IF I was pronounced "dead", they BETTER
> NOT "brring me back".
>
> I have no fear of BEING dead...I have a BIG fear of the dying process.
> If I ever MAKE IT to "dead", for crissake, LEAVE ME THERE. I will be
> one ****ed off mofo IF I "wake up" alive AFTER I have seen the White
> Light.....grumble cuss, mutherjumper....
>
> Now, if I were 30, I'fd feel differently, Im sure. But at almost 60,
> frankly, I feel like any kind of sudden Death NOW beats being "revived"
> and looking foreward to....what? Dying ANYWAY five-to -ten years from
> now of some kind of gawd-awful cancer or something?
>
> Screw that...Once Im officially "Dead", Puhleeeeeeeze, LEAVE me that
> way.
>
> LassChance
>
>

Interesting take on life. I don't know, if I'm having a heart attack I
most certainly would want to be brought back. But cancer, especially
cancers of the digestive, pulmonary or neurological you may as well
shoot yourself.

As I've said before I got to watch several people ultimately be killed
by metastatic cancers. One started with breast cancer, the other colon
cancer.

Both were dead within 2 years of diagnosis.

The first six to eight months was ok, then it was all down hill from
there.

On Sat, 13 Dec 2008 14:24:06 -0500, T >
wrote:

>As I've said before I got to watch several people ultimately be killed
>by metastatic cancers. One started with breast cancer, the other colon
>cancer.

I lost my mom to breast cancer that matatacized into her shoulder.
She always thought it would be her Type 1 Diabetes that would get her.
(Bringing it back on-topic)

Carol

In article >,
blake murphy > wrote:

> On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 12:28:18 -0600, Damsel in dis Dress wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 12:20:08 -0600, Omelet >
> > wrote:
> >
> >>Suicide is not legal.
> >
> > I'd love to see the cops show up at a mortuary to arrest a successful
> > suicide. I attempted once and wasn't arrested. I know lots of people
> > who have attempted and no legal action was ever taken against them. I
> > wonder why that law even exists?
> >
> > Carol
>
> it's bad form for the joint to be cluttered up with despondent corpses.
>
> your pal,
> blake

Okay, that was funny. ;-)
--
Peace! Om

"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them humanity cannot survive." -- Dalai Lama

In article >,
blake murphy > wrote:

> On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 20:40:17 GMT, Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>
> > On Fri 12 Dec 2008 01:20:38p, Gloria P told us...
> >
> >> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
> >>> On Fri 12 Dec 2008 12:08:30p, Gloria P told us...
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> OB Food: I don't know what my last meal would be, but I think I'd
> >>>> want either bacon or lobster to play a big part.
> >>>>
> >>>> gloria p
> >>>
> >>> I would think that would depend on what state of health and what state
> > of
> >>> mind you were in at the time.
> >>
> >> If you were about to commit suicide would you really worry about your
> >> cholesterol? Work with me here!
> >>
> >> gloria p
> >>
> >
> > I was thinking more in terms of what if your health issues prevented you
> > from swallowing.
>
> blender and i.v. line to the rescue!
>
> your pal,
> blake

No, stomach tube installed thru the navel.

I knew a male nurse (really nice guy too!) that had tongue cancer. They
cut out about 1/2 of his tongue and quite a bit of other mouth tissue,
then gave him radiation treatments that messed up his esophagus so he
could not swallow.

A stomach tube and a blender kept him alive....

For awhile.

He finally died after about 2 years of misery. :-(

I miss him still. He was an excellent nurse and actually worked during a
lot of his treatment.
--
Peace! Om

"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them humanity cannot survive." -- Dalai Lama

In article >,
blake murphy > wrote:

> On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 13:57:14 -0600, Omelet wrote:
>
> > In article >,
> > (Steve Pope) wrote:
> >
> >> Omelet > wrote:
> >>
> >>> "Nancy Young" > wrote:
> >>
> >>>> They'd certainly punish any doctor they knew helped end
> >>>> your misery. Hell, they punish doctors for giving people
> >>>> enough pain medication.
> >>
> >>>Isn't Kevorkian in jail?
> >>
> >> My belief is medical euthanasia was common in the U.S. until about 20
> >> years ago. It just wasn't official.
> >>
> >> Steve
> >
> > I think it still is.
> > It's just gone underground...
>
> i suppose you have to 'know someone,' the way abortions used to be.
>
> your pal,
> blake

No one specifically, I've just heard rumors about Morphine overdoses.

Mis-placed decimal points are rather deadly...
--
Peace! Om

"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them humanity cannot survive." -- Dalai Lama

In article >,
"Nancy Young" > wrote:

> blake murphy wrote:
> > On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 14:11:22 -0500, Nancy Young wrote:
>
> >> They'd certainly punish any doctor they knew helped end
> >> your misery. Hell, they punish doctors for giving people
> >> enough pain medication.
>
> > it's a disgrace, isn't it? the d.e.a. should butt out unless the
> > doctor is obviously a pill-pusher (i.e., writing dozens of
> > prescriptions a day).
>
> It's ridiculous, and so many people suffer for it.
>
> nancy

People need to learn to say "no".

My internist has offered me many more 'scripts than I actually take. I
research them first and decide if they will hurt me more than they will
help me.

It's why I only take 3. (Thyroid Armour, Propranolol and Torsemide).

I quite taking the amphetamines she prescribed for weight loss months
ago as they were doing more harm than good, and turned down the
Benzodiazepines she wanted me to take to help me sleep outright. I
never picked up the prescription for those.

If I was ever to get addicted to anything, it'd be Benzo's. <g>

I also turned down a prescription for Codeine to help me with the
chronic pain I've had to deal with since that f-ing bad fall back in
April. The LAST damned thing I want to get addicted to is Opiates!

I've even given up Ibuprofen for the most part. It can do renal damage
if abused.
--
Peace! Om

"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them humanity cannot survive." -- Dalai Lama

Omelet wrote:

>>> I was thinking more in terms of what if your health issues prevented you
>>> from swallowing.
>> blender and i.v. line to the rescue!
>>
>> your pal,
>> blake
>
> No, stomach tube installed thru the navel.
>
>
actually it is never placed through the navel itself. It is placed in
the abdominal wall into either the stomach or lower down into the jejunum.
It would make me miserable to have to have one of those when I love food
so. I can imagine how depressing it is? I know of someone who lost his
sense of smell and I wonder how much he enjoys food now?

In article >,
Goomba > wrote:

> Omelet wrote:
>
> >>> I was thinking more in terms of what if your health issues prevented you
> >>> from swallowing.
> >> blender and i.v. line to the rescue!
> >>
> >> your pal,
> >> blake
> >
> > No, stomach tube installed thru the navel.
> >
> >
> actually it is never placed through the navel itself. It is placed in
> the abdominal wall into either the stomach or lower down into the jejunum.

Ok, Alex showed me his and that's what it looked like...

> It would make me miserable to have to have one of those when I love food
> so. I can imagine how depressing it is?

He did ok. The thing that made him the most miserable indeed was being
unable to swallow. I really felt for him.

He'd come to me (knowing I was ok with doing some stuff) with a slide
with a tongue scraping asking if I could look for fungus as he thought
that is what he had. It was negative. He told me later that it turned
out to be cancer. <sigh> I was sad.

> I know of someone who lost his
> sense of smell and I wonder how much he enjoys food now?

Older people tend to have that happen to them. I wonder how much of
that can be attributed to vitamin deficiencies? Dad seems to be able to
taste ok, but I know he does not smell as well as he used to, by his own
admission.
--
Peace! Om

"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them humanity cannot survive." -- Dalai Lama

blake murphy wrote:

> On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 13:57:14 -0600, Omelet wrote:
>
>
>>In article >,
>> (Steve Pope) wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Omelet > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>"Nancy Young" > wrote:
>>>
>>>>>They'd certainly punish any doctor they knew helped end
>>>>>your misery. Hell, they punish doctors for giving people
>>>>>enough pain medication.
>>>
>>>>Isn't Kevorkian in jail?
>>>
>>>My belief is medical euthanasia was common in the U.S. until about 20
>>>years ago. It just wasn't official.
>>>
>>>Steve
>>
>>I think it still is.
>>It's just gone underground...
>
>
> i suppose you have to 'know someone,' the way abortions used to be.


My dad's youngest brother (YB) had always been sort of the family
screw-up. So one fine summer day he goes out on the river with the
middle brother (MB), on MB's very fine cabin cruiser. YB brings his
large, ill-mannered dog along, uninvited. MB is visibly irritated but
allows the dog onboard since taking him back home would cost another
couple hours.

A while later, MB parks the boat near a sandbar where several other
boats are beached and the occupants are swimming and picnicking. Large,
ill-mannered dog takes a large, ill-mannered dump on the teak deck of
the boat. YB spots the pile, knows there will be hell to pay if MB sees
it and promptly scoops it up in the only available receptacle, his own hand.

"So now what", thinks YB. "Dispose of the evidence, that's what!"
Only, instead of just flinging the poop overboard, he decides to dive
off the side of the boat. Into about two feet of water.

So he lands on his head on the sandy, mucky bottom. The force traveling
down his spine broke two of his ribs and knocked the wind out of him, so
he was gasping for breath, unable to move when MB got to him. His scalp
was abraded augering into the sandy bottom, so that the top of his head
scabbed over and when the scabs finally peeled off his hair went with
them (it grew back).

On hearing the story, my dad told YB that it was lucky for him that he'd
been with MB and not himself, 'cause if he'd thought YB had managed to
break his neck and paralyze himself doing something so stupid he'd have
pushed him under and sat on his chest for a while to finish the job.