A chowhounder offered this up for thought and it brought an
immediate visceral reaction from me. (I know you're all
thinking, "Ranger? Visceral? No way!")

The poster wrote:
"Over the years they were your 'go to' place for a good meal in
the neighborhood, to pick up a pizza, get your bagel & coffee
or to carry out your favorite ethnic food. The
owner/chef/manager/staff knew you by sight if not by name. You
were a loyal customer and used to sing their praises. They were
independent and local, not part of a dreaded chain.

"At some point, you had to break-up with them. Not for economic
reasons, but because something else wasn't working for you
anymore. It was a conscious decision, almost as hard as
breaking it off with your hairdresser or a decent boyfriend or
girlfriend. For your own good, the relationship had to end! You'll
still miss the old favorite restaurant or at least you'll miss
their glory days, the convenience, the comfortable feeling you
got & finding their replacement won't be easy, but it has to be
done.

"[..] What was it that made you decide to break-up with an old
favorite restaurant?"

The restaurant that I will no longer visit was a pancake house.
I frequented it daily (morning, lunch, sometimes both meals)
for eight years. I loved spackling the 49er pancakes with
butter, wolfing down the gi-normous! apple pancake solo,
getting the jitters from two cups of coffee, and treating
family and friends to this 3-diamond eatery.

Then the day came when the owners came by my table and sat down
with another fellow. They introduced him as the new owner and
explained how they were leaving to spend more time with their
families. I wished them well and hoped to see them open another
restaurant; they were very good restaurateurs.

The next day, two servers that had been there from the first
day of operation were missing from the staff. The following day
everyone from the front of house were gone. The service went
from highly competent to comedically incompetent. I was willing
to cut them some slack, though, because even monkeys can
eventually be taught.

I was wrong.

I talked to the owner about the changes I'd noticed and found
him uncaring. I reduced my visits from daily to monthly, to
yearly, to almost nothing for years. I wrote A Letter after one
particularly unsatisfactory visit, ccing the corporate
headquarters. I received a nice form letter telling me how
important my feedback was and how Mr. Soandso was glad to have
me as a customer.

I took Daughter-unit Beta in because she's a budding foodie and
willing to try many different foods.

We were terribly unimpressed. Remember those monkeys I
mentioned earlier? They were still there and still untrained.

In a virtually empty restaurant, we waited to be seated. I
finally went in search of the hostess. She was in the "office"
talking on her cell. She did at least hang up and seat us.

We waited for our tea and coffee, promised by said hostess.
Beta went in search of her at that point. Again she was on the
phone in the office, only very put out that she was expected to
do anything beyond yakking.

We waited for our order to be taken -- the waitress was taking
her break -- but did scramble to take our order.

When our food did finally arrived, I knew at once that it'd set
up under the heat lamps for a long time. The manager decided to
walk around the room at that point, so I call him over and
pointed at our dishes. At that point the two of us got up and
walked out.

That was the last chance for this place. The relationship is
closed.

The Ranger

The Ranger wrote:
> A chowhounder offered this up for thought and it brought an
> immediate visceral reaction from me. (I know you're all
> thinking, "Ranger? Visceral? No way!")
>
> The poster wrote:
> "Over the years they were your 'go to' place for a good meal in
> the neighborhood, to pick up a pizza, get your bagel & coffee
> or to carry out your favorite ethnic food. The
> owner/chef/manager/staff knew you by sight if not by name. You
> were a loyal customer and used to sing their praises. They were
> independent and local, not part of a dreaded chain.
>
> "At some point, you had to break-up with them. Not for economic
> reasons, but because something else wasn't working for you
> anymore. It was a conscious decision, almost as hard as
> breaking it off with your hairdresser or a decent boyfriend or
> girlfriend. For your own good, the relationship had to end! You'll
> still miss the old favorite restaurant or at least you'll miss
> their glory days, the convenience, the comfortable feeling you
> got & finding their replacement won't be easy, but it has to be
> done.
>
> "[..] What was it that made you decide to break-up with an old
> favorite restaurant?"
>
> The restaurant that I will no longer visit was a pancake house.
> I frequented it daily (morning, lunch, sometimes both meals)
> for eight years. I loved spackling the 49er pancakes with
> butter, wolfing down the gi-normous! apple pancake solo,
> getting the jitters from two cups of coffee, and treating
> family and friends to this 3-diamond eatery.
>
> Then the day came when the owners came by my table and sat down
> with another fellow. They introduced him as the new owner and
> explained how they were leaving to spend more time with their
> families. I wished them well and hoped to see them open another
> restaurant; they were very good restaurateurs.
>
> The next day, two servers that had been there from the first
> day of operation were missing from the staff. The following day
> everyone from the front of house were gone. The service went
> from highly competent to comedically incompetent. I was willing
> to cut them some slack, though, because even monkeys can
> eventually be taught.
>
> I was wrong.
>
> I talked to the owner about the changes I'd noticed and found
> him uncaring. I reduced my visits from daily to monthly, to
> yearly, to almost nothing for years. I wrote A Letter after one
> particularly unsatisfactory visit, ccing the corporate
> headquarters. I received a nice form letter telling me how
> important my feedback was and how Mr. Soandso was glad to have
> me as a customer.
>
> I took Daughter-unit Beta in because she's a budding foodie and
> willing to try many different foods.
>
> We were terribly unimpressed. Remember those monkeys I
> mentioned earlier? They were still there and still untrained.
>
> In a virtually empty restaurant, we waited to be seated. I
> finally went in search of the hostess. She was in the "office"
> talking on her cell. She did at least hang up and seat us.
>
> We waited for our tea and coffee, promised by said hostess.
> Beta went in search of her at that point. Again she was on the
> phone in the office, only very put out that she was expected to
> do anything beyond yakking.
>
> We waited for our order to be taken -- the waitress was taking
> her break -- but did scramble to take our order.
>
> When our food did finally arrived, I knew at once that it'd set
> up under the heat lamps for a long time. The manager decided to
> walk around the room at that point, so I call him over and
> pointed at our dishes. At that point the two of us got up and
> walked out.
>
> That was the last chance for this place. The relationship is
> closed.
>
> The Ranger
>
>
You just described every restaurant in our city that isn't run by
Asians. The good old folks who ran the local restaurants for years
either retired, sold out for lots of bucks, or just got tired. The
recent emigres, mostly ethnic Chinese, are running clean, good food,
restaurants with family servers, cooks, and grandpa/grandma greeter. One
Cajun-style restaurant that went from good to bad has been bought by a
Vietnamese family that kept the Cajun cooking and recipes and cleaned
the place up. We still eat there at least weekly after scorning it for
the two-years some round eye outfit had it.

Alas, our favorite pizza joint is now owned by a chain and has gone to
hell in a handbasket, we no longer go there. You're exactly right
Ranger, sometimes a relationship must end.

George Shirley > wrote in message
. ..
[snip]
> You just described every restaurant in our city
> that isn't run by Asians. [..]

There are a couple Asian-owned eateries that I won't step foot
into because they lost their back of house staff. Sad days,
those experiences.

The Ranger

The Ranger wrote:
> George Shirley > wrote in message
> . ..
> [snip]
>> You just described every restaurant in our city
>> that isn't run by Asians. [..]
>
> There are a couple Asian-owned eateries that I won't step foot
> into because they lost their back of house staff. Sad days,
> those experiences.
>
> The Ranger
>
>
I imagine we will get to that stage one day as the latest immigrants
assimilate and get greedy.

The Ranger > wrote:

> A chowhounder offered this up for thought and it brought an
> immediate visceral reaction from me. (I know you're all
> thinking, "Ranger? Visceral? No way!")

What goes on in Chowhound, should stay in Chowhound.

Especially when it's this long and boring.

-sw

Sqwertz > wrote in message
...
> Especially when it's this long and boring.

Hope you choke on those soggy flour tortillas.

Really.

Love and kisses,

The Ranger

On Sun, 26 Oct 2008 12:45:02 -0500, George Shirley
> wrote:

>Alas, our favorite pizza joint is now owned by a chain and has gone to
>hell in a handbasket, we no longer go there. You're exactly right
>Ranger, sometimes a relationship must end.

Views differ. I don't call that ending a relationship with a
restaurant. The restaurant ended the relationship with you.

On a happier note, our favorite pizza restaurant was bought by a long
time customer over 25 years ago. The old owner mentored/trained the
new owner for a year and visited the restaurant at least once a month
up to his death. The new owner changed the name of the restaurant to
his name, but didn't touch the decor or the menu for over a year.
First thing to go was my favorite lasagne. I've never had one like it
before or since. It was probably a cook's secret type of recipe that
left with either the old owner or a long time cook. The new lasagna
is fine, it's just different. Another big change was they took our
favorite pizza off the menu, but they still have all the ingredients
(which includes ground chicken) so we order off the menu now.

We watched the new owner's kids grow up (they started off bussing
tables, now one manages their second restaurant), he watched our kids
grow up and now our grandson. He warmly greets us as long time
customers whether we come in as an entire family or individual
families now. Best of all, his business is very good.


--
I never worry about diets. The only carrots that
interest me are the number of carats in a diamond.

Mae West

This morning I had an urge for chicken fried steak and eggs so (against my
better judgment) I drove over to a Denny's in town, placed my order with a
cup of coffee and went to the men's room to wash my hands and found that
the hand soap dispenser was empty. Not just empty but there wasn't even a
plastic bottle of empty soap inside it.

Back at my seat a waitress from behind the counter across the room asked if
I'd like a coffee refill. I said no thank you but there's no hand soap in
the men's room. She then blurts to another employee "that guy says there's
no hand soap in the men's room."

I let that pass but a minute later the other employee stands next to my
table and as if it was my fault, says "there's soap there now!"

Rather than challenge the jerk, I just got up and walked out.

I can imagine the cooks filthy hands. Where's the dept. of health when you
need 'em?

Denny's is, once again, proof positive why dining out is such a disgusting
practice.

YMMV.

Andy

The Ranger > wrote:

> Sqwertz > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> Especially when it's this long and boring.
>
> Hope you choke on those soggy flour tortillas.

I love you too, Lone Ranger.

Did you ever get resolve all those complaints brought on by Child
Protective Services? You never told us how that turned out.

-sw

Sqwertz > wrote in message
...
[snip]
> Did you ever get resolve all those complaints [..]

The same resolution you had regarding your wife-beating and
child molestation charges...

The Ranger

Andy > wrote:

> I let that pass but a minute later the other employee stands next to my
> table and as if it was my fault, says "there's soap there now!"
>
> Rather than challenge the jerk, I just got up and walked out.

Talk about thin-skinnned. Didn't want to let them see you cry in
public, eh?

-sw

Andy wrote:
> This morning I had an urge for chicken fried steak and eggs so
> (against my better judgment) I drove over to a Denny's in town,
> placed my order with a cup of coffee and went to the men's room to
> wash my hands and found that the hand soap dispenser was empty. Not
> just empty but there wasn't even a plastic bottle of empty soap
> inside it.
>
> Back at my seat a waitress from behind the counter across the room
> asked if I'd like a coffee refill. I said no thank you but there's no
> hand soap in the men's room. She then blurts to another employee
> "that guy says there's no hand soap in the men's room."
>
> I let that pass but a minute later the other employee stands next to
> my table and as if it was my fault, says "there's soap there now!"
>Rather than challenge the jerk, I just got up and walked out.

It sounds to me like what happened was that your complaint was promptly
noted and dealt with. What's wrong with that?

> > I can imagine the cooks filthy hands. Where's the dept. of health
> when you need 'em?

Well yeah. Unless the staff has a different bathroom.

"Janet" > wrote in message
>
> It sounds to me like what happened was that your complaint was promptly
> noted and dealt with. What's wrong with that?
>
>> > I can imagine the cooks filthy hands. Where's the dept. of health
>> when you need 'em?
>
> Well yeah. Unless the staff has a different bathroom.
>


If the restaurant does not keep the restrooms clean, you can be pretty sure
the kitchen and staff are about the same degree of filthy. I've walked from
a couple of places for the same reason. Yes, it is possible the person just
before you made a mess, but you can usually tell if it has not been cleaned
for days.

Janet > wrote:

> Well yeah. Unless the staff has a different bathroom.

All kitchens are required to have a dedicated hand-washing sink with
110F+ water under pressure and hand soap in the kitchen.

-sw

"The Ranger" > wrote in news:EpudnX_
andwidth:

> "[..] What was it that made you decide to break-up with an old
> favorite restaurant?"

This happened to a very popular restaurant in my town. Mornings, it was
hard to get a seat in there. The owners were aging, and sold it to some
Chinese guy. It only took him 6 months to run it into the ground.

A group of former employees who had worked there for years got up the funds
to buy it, and return it to it's former glory. Too late - the reputation
had been ruined. Even though they went back to doing things exactly like
they had been done there for decades, nobody would give it a chance. The
restaurant is right next to a freeway exit, but can't compete for the
travel business with the McDonald's, Burger King and Taco Bell that are
right there as well. They depended on the local business, and that had been
ruined.

In article >,
"Ed Pawlowski" > wrote:


> Yes, it is possible the person just
> before you made a mess, but you can usually tell if it has not been cleaned
> for days.

Many years ago, I was a starving student. Jobs were hard to get, and
although I don't like cleaning, I took a job as a custodian at the
university I attended. It started out as a summer job. One of my first
assignments was the architectural building. I walked in the first
bathroom, and it obviously hadn't been cleaned in a week. The toilet
seats were literally covered in shit. I got it all cleaned up, no small
job when you don't like to clean. Well, as a student, I didn't get
regular assignments, even though I was working full time for the summer.
I filled in for people who had called in sick, were on vacation or
sometimes I was a helper for special jobs. I was never told what was
going on. So, for five days I was assigned to that same building, must
have been somebody on vacation. The second day, I expected a clean
bathroom. No, it obviously hadn't been cleaned for a week. Except, I
left it spotless the night before! I suspect that people were living
there, and had some problem (drugs?) so they didn't even realize they
were shitting all over the toilet seats. One whole week of this.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

elaich wrote:
>
> A group of former employees who had worked there for years got up the funds
> to buy it, and return it to it's former glory. Too late - the reputation
> had been ruined. Even though they went back to doing things exactly like
> they had been done there for decades, nobody would give it a chance. The
> restaurant is right next to a freeway exit, but can't compete for the
> travel business with the McDonald's, Burger King and Taco Bell that are
> right there as well. They depended on the local business, and that had been
> ruined.

Sort of the reverse happened near me. An unbelievably
bad Chinese restaurant -- I think the proprietors must
have been from rural China or someplace where it is
considered perfectly normal to serve a chicken dish
in which the chicken has been hacked up with a cleaver,
no attempt has been made at deboning, and it's left to
the customer to pick out the meat -- went out of business
and was replaced by another Chinese restaurant which
was actually quite good. They also completely remodeled
the place so it looked great. They went out of business
in less than a year, I guess because he couldn't overcome
the bad reputation of their predecessor.

Just goes to show that planning a restaurant business
requires considerable thought and research. And even
then, you might fail. The new Chinese restaurant had
great food at reasonable prices. The remodeled
restaurant was lovely. But all of that wasn't enough.

Mark Thorson said...

> Just goes to show that planning a restaurant business
> requires considerable thought and research. And even
> then, you might fail. The new Chinese restaurant had
> great food at reasonable prices. The remodeled
> restaurant was lovely. But all of that wasn't enough.


There's a great Mom & Pop restaurant that's been in town for years and they
decided to branch out to the neighboring town. Well their new restaurant was
a mere shadow of the original in quality and ambience.

The sad thing is that any customers who first dine at the new place, should
they ever see the original in town would probably not give it a second
chance. And if the original's diners dine at the new establishment they'd
probably wonder if both places are headed downhill.

Andy

Sqwertz wrote:
> Janet > wrote:
>
>> Well yeah. Unless the staff has a different bathroom.
>
> All kitchens are required to have a dedicated hand-washing sink with
> 110F+ water under pressure and hand soap in the kitchen.

Correct, but all employees are also expected to wash their hands before
leaving the bathroom. The handwashing area in a kitchen is predominantly
for washing up after handling raw food, after cleaning the work area,
before starting work and before leaving work.

In article >, Andy >
wrote:

> This morning I had an urge for chicken fried steak and eggs so (against my
> better judgment) I drove over to a Denny's in town, placed my order with a
> cup of coffee and went to the men's room to wash my hands and found that
> the hand soap dispenser was empty. Not just empty but there wasn't even a
> plastic bottle of empty soap inside it.
>
> Back at my seat a waitress from behind the counter across the room asked if
> I'd like a coffee refill. I said no thank you but there's no hand soap in
> the men's room. She then blurts to another employee "that guy says there's
> no hand soap in the men's room."
>
> I let that pass but a minute later the other employee stands next to my
> table and as if it was my fault, says "there's soap there now!"
>
> Rather than challenge the jerk, I just got up and walked out.
>
> I can imagine the cooks filthy hands. Where's the dept. of health when you
> need 'em?

Must have been how they said it, because the words themselves don't
sound that bad.

I've read boasts from RV owners that they never buy toilet paper. First
place they hit at the campground is the bathroom, not to use it but to
score refills on toilet paper. Maybe people do that at Denny's? Why
would the bottle be gone? I can understand empty, but gone? I wonder
if somebody needed hand soap at their house. Could be it was a full
bottle a few minutes ago?

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

Pennyaline > wrote:

> Sqwertz wrote:
>> Janet > wrote:
>>
>>> Well yeah. Unless the staff has a different bathroom.
>>
>> All kitchens are required to have a dedicated hand-washing sink with
>> 110F+ water under pressure and hand soap in the kitchen.
>
> Correct, but all employees are also expected to wash their hands before
> leaving the bathroom.

There is no such law. The health codes all read that they must wash
hands before returning to work(*) - not before leaving the bathroom.
But sure - we'd all like to see them wash their hands rather than
trusting that they'll be doing it back in the kitchen.

Personally, I'd rather them use the sinks in the kitchen as they
would be far more sanitary than the ones in many public bathrooms.

(*) Maybe there is a law in some podunk county somewhere, but this
would veer from the accepted standards.

-sw

Dan Abel said...

> In article >, Andy >
> wrote:
>
>> This morning I had an urge for chicken fried steak and eggs so (against
>> my better judgment) I drove over to a Denny's in town, placed my order
>> with a cup of coffee and went to the men's room to wash my hands and
>> found that the hand soap dispenser was empty. Not just empty but there
>> wasn't even a plastic bottle of empty soap inside it.
>>
>> Back at my seat a waitress from behind the counter across the room
>> asked if I'd like a coffee refill. I said no thank you but there's no
>> hand soap in the men's room. She then blurts to another employee "that
>> guy says there's no hand soap in the men's room."
>>
>> I let that pass but a minute later the other employee stands next to my
>> table and as if it was my fault, says "there's soap there now!"
>>
>> Rather than challenge the jerk, I just got up and walked out.
>>
>> I can imagine the cooks filthy hands. Where's the dept. of health when
>> you need 'em?
>
> Must have been how they said it, because the words themselves don't
> sound that bad.

Well, you had to be there to witness the poor communication skills among
the staff that permiated the entire restaurant, then the goon standing over
me with a bottle of soap in his hand. As I stood up he took a few steps
backwards.

One never knows who one ****s with when they've never met. He got off easy.


> I've read boasts from RV owners that they never buy toilet paper. First
> place they hit at the campground is the bathroom, not to use it but to
> score refills on toilet paper. Maybe people do that at Denny's? Why
> would the bottle be gone? I can understand empty, but gone? I wonder
> if somebody needed hand soap at their house. Could be it was a full
> bottle a few minutes ago?

Heh heh heh!

Perhaps?

Andy

Andy > wrote:

> Well, you had to be there to witness the poor communication skills among
> the staff that permiated the entire restaurant, then the goon standing over
> me with a bottle of soap in his hand.

What was he doing with a bottle of soap in his hands? You said that
he said that he just replaced it, and there was no empty container
to be discarded.

> One never knows who one ****s with when they've never met. He got off easy.

Sound like you were drunk and they noticed it. Then you got
embarrassed and left. Then you come in here and exaggerate the
story.

-sw

Sqwertz said...

> Andy > wrote:
>
>> Well, you had to be there to witness the poor communication skills
>> among the staff that permiated the entire restaurant, then the goon
>> standing over me with a bottle of soap in his hand.
>
> What was he doing with a bottle of soap in his hands? You said that
> he said that he just replaced it, and there was no empty container
> to be discarded.
>
>> One never knows who one ****s with when they've never met. He got off
>> easy.
>
> Sound like you were drunk and they noticed it. Then you got
> embarrassed and left. Then you come in here and exaggerate the
> story.
>
> -sw
>

Nope.

Mark Thorson > wrote in :

> I think the proprietors must
> have been from rural China or someplace where it is
> considered perfectly normal to serve a chicken dish
> in which the chicken has been hacked up with a cleaver,
> no attempt has been made at deboning, and it's left to
> the customer to pick out the meat --

I used to eat at a place like that in Isleton, CA back in the 80s. They had
the best food I have ever eaten. Elderly Chinese couple ran the place.

There was a more glitzy place up the street where the food wasn't nearly as
good. Once, the proprietor of that place ran out into the street to tell me
"I saw her getting food out of our garbage!" Okay.

These people understood how to use black beans in Chinese cooking.
Everything they served was smoky with the black beans. The best Chinese
food I ever ate.

Hell, when I eat at home, I may have to extract the chicken from the bone
myself. It's home cooking.

elaich wrote:
>
> These people understood how to use black beans in Chinese cooking.
> Everything they served was smoky with the black beans. The best Chinese
> food I ever ate.

Ugh. There's a Chinese restaurant in Palo Alto
who puts black beans in nearly everything they
make. The only times I've eaten there was when
somebody else was paying. Black beans are like
sage, more often noticed when over-used.

They also wash their bamboo chopsticks and re-use
them. Double ugh.

The Ranger wrote:
> A chowhounder offered this up for thought and it brought an
> immediate visceral reaction from me. (I know you're all
> thinking, "Ranger? Visceral? No way!")
>
> The poster wrote:
> "Over the years they were your 'go to' place for a good meal in
> the neighborhood, to pick up a pizza, get your bagel & coffee
> or to carry out your favorite ethnic food. The
> owner/chef/manager/staff knew you by sight if not by name. You
> were a loyal customer and used to sing their praises. They were
> independent and local, not part of a dreaded chain.
>
> "At some point, you had to break-up with them.

(snippage)

The only restaurants I ever felt I had to break up with were former
employers when I gave my notice. Honestly, who cares that much about a
restaurant?!

Jill

On Sun 26 Oct 2008 08:32:06p, jmcquown told us...

> The Ranger wrote:
>> A chowhounder offered this up for thought and it brought an
>> immediate visceral reaction from me. (I know you're all
>> thinking, "Ranger? Visceral? No way!")
>>
>> The poster wrote:
>> "Over the years they were your 'go to' place for a good meal in
>> the neighborhood, to pick up a pizza, get your bagel & coffee
>> or to carry out your favorite ethnic food. The
>> owner/chef/manager/staff knew you by sight if not by name. You
>> were a loyal customer and used to sing their praises. They were
>> independent and local, not part of a dreaded chain.
>>
>> "At some point, you had to break-up with them.
>
> (snippage)
>
> The only restaurants I ever felt I had to break up with were former
> employers when I gave my notice. Honestly, who cares that much about a
> restaurant?!
>
> Jill
>
>

As usual, he's over the top with this as with most things.

--
Wayne Boatwright
(correct the spelling of "geemail" to reply)

*******************************************
Date: Sunday, 10(X)/26(XXVI)/08(MMVIII)
*******************************************
Today is: Daylight Saving time ends
Countdown till Veteran's Day
2wks 1dys 3hrs 23mins
*******************************************
A large dog will have a surprising

In article dth>,
"The Ranger" > wrote:

> "[..] What was it that made you decide to break-up with an old
> favorite restaurant?"

There was this little Cambodian place we'd go to that was just off the
main drag, "mum and dad" operation, teenaged kids helped out in the
kitchen. Great food for outrageously low prices, cheerful ambience,
friendly people.

Then it got less friendly.

Then they put a TV in the kitchen so they could watch when things were
slow, and you could hear it blaring from the front of house.

Then the food started to go downhill. And they were almost always out
of pork for my favourite dish (pad thai with pork).

The final straw was when I got a dish that was finished with a cornflour
(cornstarch) based sauce that had been reheated, but not all the way
through.

Sorry dudes, I can cook better than that in my own kitchen.

Miche

--
Electricians do it in three phases

jmcquown > wrote in message
...
[snip]
> Honestly, who cares that much about a restaurant?!

More's the pity for you if you never had a favorite place where
everyone knew your name...

The Ranger

"The Ranger" > wrote in message
news
> jmcquown > wrote in message
> ...
> [snip]
>> Honestly, who cares that much about a restaurant?!
>
> More's the pity for you if you never had a favorite place where everyone
> knew your name...
>
You've been watching too many Cheers reruns, dude.

Sqwertz wrote:
> Pennyaline > wrote:
>
>> Sqwertz wrote:
>>> Janet > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Well yeah. Unless the staff has a different bathroom.
>>> All kitchens are required to have a dedicated hand-washing sink with
>>> 110F+ water under pressure and hand soap in the kitchen.
>> Correct, but all employees are also expected to wash their hands before
>> leaving the bathroom.
>
> There is no such law. The health codes all read that they must wash
> hands before returning to work(*) - not before leaving the bathroom.
> But sure - we'd all like to see them wash their hands rather than
> trusting that they'll be doing it back in the kitchen.
>
> Personally, I'd rather them use the sinks in the kitchen as they
> would be far more sanitary than the ones in many public bathrooms.
>
> (*) Maybe there is a law in some podunk county somewhere, but this
> would veer from the accepted standards.

Pull your head out of your podunk, dear and show me where I said there
is a LAW.

As far as the comparative sanitation of a bathroom and kitchen
handwashing sink, all things considered they're probably equal. Kitchen
handwashing sinks are mandated because they're closer to the work area
and theoretically untouched by gross* kitchen contaminants. In reality,
since water is the culprit, they are actually no less contaminated that
any other sink.

(*: For the uninitiated, "gross" means visible with the naked eye.)

The Ranger wrote:
> jmcquown > wrote in message
> ...
> [snip]
>> Honestly, who cares that much about a restaurant?!
>
> More's the pity for you if you never had a favorite place where
> everyone knew your name...
>
> The Ranger


That was a bar, not a restaurant Actually, there was a great restaurant
where I knew the chef personally and he'd come sit at the table when he
wasn't busy. His wife was the hostess. But like most new restaurants it
fell by the wayside. That was in the 1980's. I just don't get that excited
about dining out. Once in a while it's a treat. There are some old
established places in Memphis that shut down but I'm not going to bitch
about it on Chowhound.

Jill

In article >,
Pennyaline > wrote:

> Sqwertz wrote:
> > Pennyaline > wrote:
> >
> >> Sqwertz wrote:
> >>> Janet > wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Well yeah. Unless the staff has a different bathroom.
> >>> All kitchens are required to have a dedicated hand-washing sink with
> >>> 110F+ water under pressure and hand soap in the kitchen.
> >> Correct, but all employees are also expected to wash their hands before
> >> leaving the bathroom.
> >
> > There is no such law. The health codes all read that they must wash
> > hands before returning to work(*) - not before leaving the bathroom.
> > But sure - we'd all like to see them wash their hands rather than
> > trusting that they'll be doing it back in the kitchen.
> >
> > Personally, I'd rather them use the sinks in the kitchen as they
> > would be far more sanitary than the ones in many public bathrooms.
> >
> > (*) Maybe there is a law in some podunk county somewhere, but this
> > would veer from the accepted standards.
>
> Pull your head out of your podunk, dear and show me where I said there
> is a LAW.
>
> As far as the comparative sanitation of a bathroom and kitchen
> handwashing sink, all things considered they're probably equal. Kitchen
> handwashing sinks are mandated because they're closer to the work area
> and theoretically untouched by gross* kitchen contaminants. In reality,
> since water is the culprit, they are actually no less contaminated that
> any other sink.
>
> (*: For the uninitiated, "gross" means visible with the naked eye.)

Yep! We use that term to describe/report microbiology and pathology
specimens... altho' the other definition often applies. <g>
--
Peace! Om

"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them humanity cannot survive." -- Dalai Lama

On Mon 27 Oct 2008 06:15:34a, The Ranger told us...

> jmcquown > wrote in message
> ...
> [snip]
>> Honestly, who cares that much about a restaurant?!
>
> More's the pity for you if you never had a favorite place where
> everyone knew your name...
>
> The Ranger

Things, people, and place come and go. One must adapt and get on with life
and find a new favorite place. This has probably happened to most
people.

--
Wayne Boatwright
(correct the spelling of "geemail" to reply)

*******************************************
Date: Monday, 10(X)/27(XXVII)/08(MMVIII)
*******************************************
Countdown till Veteran's Day
2wks 15hrs 41mins
*******************************************
As long as I can remember, I've had
amnesia.

Wayne Boatwright wrote:
> On Mon 27 Oct 2008 06:15:34a, The Ranger told us...
>
>> jmcquown > wrote in message
>> ...
>> [snip]
>>> Honestly, who cares that much about a restaurant?!
>>
>> More's the pity for you if you never had a favorite place where
>> everyone knew your name...
>>
>> The Ranger
>
> Things, people, and place come and go. One must adapt and get on
> with life and find a new favorite place. This has probably
> happened to most people.


Going out to eat just isn't one of my hobbies. Summit Place in Clarke Tower
in Memphis shut down, as did my fav Italian place, Art Pieroni's, as did the
Knickerbocker on Poplar and and Buntyn's on Southern. I didn't cry about it


Jill

On 27 Oct 2008 01:59:25 GMT, elaich wrote:

> Mark Thorson > wrote in :
>
>> I think the proprietors must
>> have been from rural China or someplace where it is
>> considered perfectly normal to serve a chicken dish
>> in which the chicken has been hacked up with a cleaver,
>> no attempt has been made at deboning, and it's left to
>> the customer to pick out the meat --
>
> I used to eat at a place like that in Isleton, CA back in the 80s. They had
> the best food I have ever eaten. Elderly Chinese couple ran the place.
>
> There was a more glitzy place up the street where the food wasn't nearly as
> good. Once, the proprietor of that place ran out into the street to tell me
> "I saw her getting food out of our garbage!" Okay.
>
> These people understood how to use black beans in Chinese cooking.
> Everything they served was smoky with the black beans. The best Chinese
> food I ever ate.
>
> Hell, when I eat at home, I may have to extract the chicken from the bone
> myself. It's home cooking.

this was my reaction, too, elaich. i'm not sure i would want to eat the
chicken with bones, but it's probably authentic.

your pal,
blake

On Mon 27 Oct 2008 09:07:24a, jmcquown told us...

> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>> On Mon 27 Oct 2008 06:15:34a, The Ranger told us...
>>
>>> jmcquown > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>> [snip]
>>>> Honestly, who cares that much about a restaurant?!
>>>
>>> More's the pity for you if you never had a favorite place where
>>> everyone knew your name...
>>>
>>> The Ranger
>>
>> Things, people, and place come and go. One must adapt and get on
>> with life and find a new favorite place. This has probably
>> happened to most people.
>
>
> Going out to eat just isn't one of my hobbies. Summit Place in Clarke
> Tower in Memphis shut down, as did my fav Italian place, Art Pieroni's,
> as did the Knickerbocker on Poplar and and Buntyn's on Southern. I
> didn't cry about it
>
>
> Jill

Going out to eat just to be one of my hobbies, but still, there are many
favorite places I've "lost" over the years for one reason or another. Fond
memories of them are enough for me. I didn't cry about them, either, I
just moved on.

--
Wayne Boatwright
(correct the spelling of "geemail" to reply)

*******************************************
Date: Monday, 10(X)/27(XXVII)/08(MMVIII)
*******************************************
Countdown till Veteran's Day
2wks 14hrs 32mins
*******************************************
Nobody can be just like me. Even I
have trouble.

In article >,
"jmcquown" > wrote:

> The only restaurants I ever felt I had to break up with were former
> employers when I gave my notice. Honestly, who cares that much about a
> restaurant?!
>
> Jill

I do.

I like for small, independent, locally-owned places to succeed. We
patronized a local Vietnamese place for years. We were initially
attracted to it because it was near us, the food was reasonably priced
and tasty, and the staff (an immigrant family) was cheerful and
friendly. There are five children in the family and, over time as we
patronized the business, we watched them grow up, go to school, get
jobs, marry, and start their own families, usually while still helping
operate the restaurant.

They knew our names and our regular orders; we knew their names and what
they were doing outside the restaurant business (college majors,
full-time jobs) by virtue of being regular customers. They noticed if
we'd not been in for a few weeks. We had a relationship with them and a
good part of the relationship was based on service and the quality of
the food they served. The food was excellent and the service was
cheerful, friendly, and efficient.

I'll tolerate mediocre food if the rest of the experience is pleasant‹a
pleasant experience eating out, for me, includes more than just tasty
food on a plate. Sometimes tasty food isn't even the most important
part of the experience.

Their family situation and dynamics changed. The woman who was the
heart and soul of the front of the house left the business after her
brother-in-law (Michael) became manager of the new store, a position she
felt she had earned. I don't know that the business suffered right away
but I believe it eventually did‹I figure if we reduced the frequency
with which we ate their, maybe others did, too.

The owner sold the place to her cousin and things were never the same.
Employee response to customers was different‹cooler, more impersonal.
The food was still okay but not as good as it had been.

I don't require being fawned over (don't much like it, in fact), but it
is nice, as a regular customer, to be recognized with a greeting like,
"Hello, it's nice to see you again." That kind of familiarity makes
me, as customer, feel that my regular patronage is valued and important
to their business. Who doesn't like that feeling? We no longer felt
valued and rarely go there now. I think a smart business owner
recognizes that and acts accordingly. Heck, in order to stay in
business in a competitive industry, you need to set yourself apart from
the rest of the competition, no?

The brother-in-law opened at least one other Asian restaurant in the
area after leaving the state for a while and returning to the area; it
was open for about 10 months before closing.

I understand that the seller of a restaurant has no say about how the
new owner will operate the business and if part of the deal was the
purchase of the name of the business and the new owner harms a good
reputation ‹ well, that's got to be a sad thing for the former owner *
to see something you worked hard to achieve be spoiled.

Some restaurants' success I do care about, others * not so much.
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://web.mac.com/barbschaller, Thelma and Louise
On the Road Again - It is Finished

jmcquown wrote:
> The Ranger wrote:
>> A chowhounder offered this up for thought and it brought an
>> immediate visceral reaction from me. (I know you're all
>> thinking, "Ranger? Visceral? No way!")
>>
>> The poster wrote:
>> "Over the years they were your 'go to' place for a good meal in
>> the neighborhood, to pick up a pizza, get your bagel & coffee
>> or to carry out your favorite ethnic food. The
>> owner/chef/manager/staff knew you by sight if not by name. You
>> were a loyal customer and used to sing their praises. They were
>> independent and local, not part of a dreaded chain.
>>
>> "At some point, you had to break-up with them.
>
> (snippage)
>
> The only restaurants I ever felt I had to break up with were former
> employers when I gave my notice. Honestly, who cares that much about a
> restaurant?!
>
> Jill

How many restaurant did you work at before you became unemployable?