My wife and I plan to buy this chest freezer:
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...rs&sName=Chest

The reason is because we plan to join BJ's Wholesale club and start
buying in bulk. And start freezing more so we can buy/use wisely. And
our current regular fridge's freezer just can't handle.

So just wondering if anyone here owns one and has any advice to share?

Can you plug this into a 3 prong outlet just like any appliance that
requires 3 prongs?

Do these freezer add a lot to the electric bill?

Thanks!

"Declan's Dad" > wrote in message
...
> My wife and I plan to buy this chest freezer:
> http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...rs&sName=Chest
>
> The reason is because we plan to join BJ's Wholesale club and start
> buying in bulk. And start freezing more so we can buy/use wisely. And
> our current regular fridge's freezer just can't handle.
>
> So just wondering if anyone here owns one and has any advice to share?
>
> Can you plug this into a 3 prong outlet just like any appliance that
> requires 3 prongs?
>
> Do these freezer add a lot to the electric bill?
>
> Thanks!
>
We bought this one a few months ago and haven't noticed a huge change in our
electric bill. It's plugged into a standard (20A) grounded circuit.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....=1140394319328

In article
>,
"Declan's Dad" > wrote:

> My wife and I plan to buy this chest freezer:
> http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...nces&cName= F
> reezers+%26+Ice+Makers&sName=Chest
>
> The reason is because we plan to join BJ's Wholesale club and start
> buying in bulk. And start freezing more so we can buy/use wisely. And
> our current regular fridge's freezer just can't handle.
>
> So just wondering if anyone here owns one and has any advice to share?
>
> Can you plug this into a 3 prong outlet just like any appliance that
> requires 3 prongs?

Yes.

>
> Do these freezer add a lot to the electric bill?
>
> Thanks!

No.

I did have to add an extra circuit to the house finally tho' to handle
the load. All kitchen appliances were on one wall.

The microwave and coffemaker were the biggest issues. They pull a LOT of
current! Make sure that whatever circuit you plug it into has those two
items separate.
--
Peace! Om

"He who has the gold makes the rules"
--Om

"He who has the guns can get the gold."
-- Steve Rothstein

In article >,
Nina > wrote:

> On Mon, 29 Sep 2008 07:31:14 -0700 (PDT), "Declan's Dad"
> > wrote:
>
> >My wife and I plan to buy this chest freezer:
> >http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...liances&cName=
> >Freezers+%26+Ice+Makers&sName=Chest
> >
> >The reason is because we plan to join BJ's Wholesale club and start
> >buying in bulk. And start freezing more so we can buy/use wisely. And
> >our current regular fridge's freezer just can't handle.
> >
> >So just wondering if anyone here owns one and has any advice to share?
> >
> >Can you plug this into a 3 prong outlet just like any appliance that
> >requires 3 prongs?
> >
> >Do these freezer add a lot to the electric bill?
>
> Most freezers plug into a standard outlet, and a full freezer that is
> operating properly adds little to the electric bll.
>
> But having had both chest freezers and upright freezers, if space
> permits, I would seriously consider an upright freezer. They are
> much, much easier to find things in. Unless you're careful, a chest
> freezer can easily just become a graveyard for frozen thing, because
> it's hard to see (and hard on your back) to discover what's actually
> IN the bottom, and so it doesn't get taken out until it's
> freezer-burned and inedible.
>
> My experience anyway, although it could just be my lack of
> organizational skills!
>
> Nina

No, yours is a common thing with chest freezers. <g>

I do date everything I put in there now which has helped, but the bottom
layer does need tossing here soon. There is still some ancient venison
and emu down there, and probably some turkey. I hate wasting food and
may make pet food out of some of it. Fortunately, a lot of it is dry
goods so those are ok. (Rice, beans and other Legumes).

Next time I clean it out, I plan to hang a dry erase board above it and
keep a WRITTEN inventory for meal planning. :-)

I second the motion for an upright...

I've gotten a LOT better about it over time. It's only about 1/2 full
right now. I'm trying to reserve space for when I finally get to go
feral hog hunting. I'll be making mucho sausage.
--
Peace! Om

"He who has the gold makes the rules"
--Om

"He who has the guns can get the gold."
-- Steve Rothstein

Declan's Dad wrote:
> My wife and I plan to buy this chest freezer:
> http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...rs&sName=Chest
>
> The reason is because we plan to join BJ's Wholesale club and start
> buying in bulk. And start freezing more so we can buy/use wisely. And
> our current regular fridge's freezer just can't handle.
>
> So just wondering if anyone here owns one and has any advice to share?

Like most things like this I would look at the bottom line cost assuming
there were no other circumstances. If you buy in bulk you need to break
things down into smaller sizes. So that involves extra wrapping or
containers you need to buy and your time to do it. Then you need to
track what you have or things will get lost which will be ruined and
need to be discarded negating your savings. Then you need to figure in
the cost to buy the freezer plus the cost to operate it.

We used to have a separate freezer and we decided to stop using it about
ten years ago mainly because it made little sense for us. Sometime after
that my brother mentioned that they were gone away during the summer and
lost a bunch of stuff they had in the freezer when it failed. I offered
to give him ours for free but they also decided it wasn't worth it.

>
> Can you plug this into a 3 prong outlet just like any appliance that
> requires 3 prongs?
>
> Do these freezer add a lot to the electric bill?
>
> Thanks!
>

Nina wrote:
>
> But having had both chest freezers and upright freezers, if space
> permits, I would seriously consider an upright freezer. They are
> much, much easier to find things in. Unless you're careful, a chest
> freezer can easily just become a graveyard for frozen thing, because
> it's hard to see (and hard on your back) to discover what's actually
> IN the bottom, and so it doesn't get taken out until it's
> freezer-burned and inedible.
>
> My experience anyway, although it could just be my lack of
> organizational skills!
>


My organization skills are probably worse than yours, but I must wrap
things better because exploring the bottom of the chest freezer is like
finding buried treasure. Stuff that's 10 years old is still in great
shape, and I think there's a small flock of frozen chickens breeding in
there.

I also have an upright freezer. It's more convenient, but the chest
freezer seems more energy efficient and less susceptible to freezer
burning. *However* if the freezer ever loses power and thaws out, then
freezes again, you'll know about it with the upright (cuz it will leak)
but you might not find out with the chest freezer until you thaw
something out and it's spoiled. I've read that you can put a plastic
bowl or bag of ice cubes in the freezer on top of everything, and the
ice cubes will melt if the freezer thaws out; when they refreeze they
will no longer be cubes. Seems like a good idea.

Bob

George > wrote:
> Declan's Dad wrote:
> > My wife and I plan to buy this chest freezer:
> >http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...Name=Appliance...
>
> > The reason is because we plan to join BJ's Wholesale club and start
> > buying in bulk. And start freezing more so we can buy/use wisely. And
> > our current regular fridge's freezer just can't handle.
>
> > So just wondering if anyone here owns one and has any advice to share?
>
> Like most things like this I would look at the bottom line cost assuming
> there were no other circumstances. If you buy in bulk you need to break
> things down into smaller sizes. So that involves extra wrapping or
> containers you need to buy and your time to do it. Then you need to
> track what you have or things will get lost which will be ruined and
> need to be discarded negating your savings. Then you need to figure in
> the cost to buy the freezer plus the cost to operate it.
>
> We used to have a separate freezer and we decided to stop using it about
> ten years ago mainly because it made little sense for us. Sometime after
> that my brother mentioned that they were gone away during the summer and
> lost a bunch of stuff they had in the freezer when it failed. I offered
> to give him ours for free but they also decided it wasn't worth it.


I once owned a chest freezer, just not any advantage... agreed on all
your points... plus I'd much rather put my pesos into an interest
bearing savings account than stash mucho dinero worth of food in a
freezer... it's easy to amass over a thousand dollars worth of food in
a chest freezer, a good deal of which will be discarded due to
spoilage... just one major power outage and you won't live long enough
to catch up. In the US there is no shortage of food and there are
sales every day, there is no valid reason to stock up on perishables,
not unless you live like over a hundred miles from a stupidmarket.
Folks who stock up huge freezers were deprived of food as a child and
so have a phobia about starving, there is no other logical
explanation. Aside from all the other associated expenses of bulk
freezing you'll never amortize the cost of the freezer.

And with the high price of electricity today don't kid yourself,
running a freezer is not cheap, a large chest freezer (12-15 cu ft)
costs at least a dollar a day to run... $365 still buys a lot of meat.

It makes a lot more sense for a family to have a second refrigerator
freezer. I have a small fridge freezer in my basement, I make more
use of the fridge portion than the freezer. Right now that fridge is
chock full with fresh veggies from my garden. And that few cu ft of
extra freezer space is more than enough for the times when I need it
for bulky items. A second fridge freezer is far more versatile than a
big ol freezer.

And before buying either consider where you'll keep it. you cannot
keep a fridge or freezer in an unheated space that goes below 60F, or
a space that gets overly warm without it costing a lot more energy and/
or damaging the unit... out in a garage or porch that goes below 60F
and/or above 80F is not a good idea.

http://www.geappliances.com/search/f...e/10000320.htm

> Most freezers plug into a standard outlet, and a full freezer that is
> operating properly adds little to the electric bll.

(An auto defrost will add quite a bit to an electric bill, and in my
opinion, isn't worth it for a chest type freezer. I didn't follow the
original link, so the one he picked is probably not an auto-defrost.)

>
> But having had both chest freezers and upright freezers, if space
> permits, I would seriously consider an upright freezer. *They are
> much, much easier to find things in. *Unless you're careful, a chest
> freezer can easily just become a graveyard for frozen thing, because
> it's hard to see (and hard on your back) to discover what's actually
> IN the bottom, and so it doesn't get taken out until it's
> freezer-burned and inedible. *

I would absolutely not recommend an upright because every time you
open the door, you have the entire exposed surface just waiting to
pump out the cold air. A chest type is much more efficient because
the air doesn't come up and out so fast. If you don't need to worry
about a bad back, go for the chest type.

In addition, with an upright you almost have to get an auto-defrost
because they frost up so fast, relatively. These are just my
opinions, and not necessarily anyone else's.

N.

"tom" wrote
> "Declan's Dad" wrote

>> My wife and I plan to buy this chest freezer:
>> http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...rs&sName=Chest

Not a bad unit.

>> The reason is because we plan to join BJ's Wholesale club and start
>> buying in bulk. And start freezing more so we can buy/use wisely. And
>> our current regular fridge's freezer just can't handle.

It works if you plan well and double wrap things.

>> So just wondering if anyone here owns one and has any advice to share?

Yes, had them for years. Chest freezers are more efficient. Ignore Sheldon
who's still thinking 1960s units and a dollar a day. The one you are
looking at would be about 40$ a year to operate (has energy guide of 2005
for 25$).

I have a much larger unit here which is nice as I can get several turkeys
etc on sale and hold them for later use. Others have a point that if you
have a bad back, this unit shape isnt great as you have to lift out a heavy
basket to get at the bottom.

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...ame=Appliances

This one costs 2$ more a year and as long as you have space for it, will be
more useful because of the double basket construction. I actually have a
larger unit than that with 3 baskets at the middle and 2 on top (grin).
Sliding the baskets is no problem with my bad back.

>> Can you plug this into a 3 prong outlet just like any appliance that
>> requires 3 prongs?

Yes.

>> Do these freezer add a lot to the electric bill?

You will see the energystar marker on the page. Click on it and you can get
a rough idea of cost to operate under normal usage. Your prices may be a
little higher or lower, but won't be too far off.

> We bought this one a few months ago and haven't noticed a huge change in
> our electric bill. It's plugged into a standard (20A) grounded circuit.
>
> http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....=1140394319328

Not bad! Mines a 19sqft (and change, 19.7?)

"Sheldon" wrote

> I once owned a chest freezer, just not any advantage... agreed on all
> your points... plus I'd much rather put my pesos into an interest
> bearing savings account than stash mucho dinero worth of food in a
> freezer... it's easy to amass over a thousand dollars worth of food in

Good grief Sheldon! Get real!

> Folks who stock up huge freezers were deprived of food as a child and

???? You do have odd ideas and a thing about freezers???

> And with the high price of electricity today don't kid yourself,
> running a freezer is not cheap, a large chest freezer (12-15 cu ft)
> costs at least a dollar a day to run... $365 still buys a lot of meat.

No, the one he's looking at is 25$ a year. That was 2005 though so lets say
40$ maybe now.

> And before buying either consider where you'll keep it. you cannot
> keep a fridge or freezer in an unheated space that goes below 60F, or
> a space that gets overly warm without it costing a lot more energy and/
> or damaging the unit... out in a garage or porch that goes below 60F
> and/or above 80F is not a good idea.

Again, wrong. They work fine in a garage. Just not optimal under a certain
level or over it.

On Sep 29, 9:50*am, Nina > wrote:
>
>
> Most freezers plug into a standard outlet, and a full freezer that is
> operating properly adds little to the electric bll.
>
> But having had both chest freezers and upright freezers, if space
> permits, I would seriously consider an upright freezer. *They are
> much, much easier to find things in. *Unless you're careful, a chest
> freezer can easily just become a graveyard for frozen thing, because
> it's hard to see (and hard on your back) to discover what's actually
> IN the bottom, and so it doesn't get taken out until it's
> freezer-burned and inedible. *
>
> My experience anyway, although it could just be my lack of
> organizational skills!
>
> Nina
>
>
I'm going to have to go with the vote for the upright freezer, too. I
bought a 14 cu. ft. one last November and I really have enjoyed
filling it up with meat and frozen vegetable sales. Also, the marked
down meats were a great help in getting it stocked.

Several people had strongly recommended I get a small chest freezer.
I knew that was a route I wasn't going to consider. The thought of
standing on my head and re-arranging food every time I wanted
something was not a pretty picture. And as some have already said, it
would be just a matter of time before I had a pile in the bottom to
never be used.

I opted for a frost-free model and it has added about $54 to my total
yearly electric bill. It's just so nice to find what I want
immediately and not think about unloading that box and doing a big
defrost job as my used to do with her 20 cu.ft. one. It would be an
all day job and not one I wanted to repeat.

Also, I purchased a Food Saver vacuum sealer this year and it has done
wonders in packaging food for the freezer! When the item thaws, it
looks just like the day I sealed it even if it has been many months
ago.

"Declan's Dad" > wrote in message
...
> My wife and I plan to buy this chest freezer:
> http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...rs&sName=Chest
>
> The reason is because we plan to join BJ's Wholesale club and start
> buying in bulk. And start freezing more so we can buy/use wisely. And
> our current regular fridge's freezer just can't handle.
>
> So just wondering if anyone here owns one and has any advice to share?
>
> Can you plug this into a 3 prong outlet just like any appliance that
> requires 3 prongs?
>
> Do these freezer add a lot to the electric bill?
>
> Thanks!
>
>
We've used a non frost free chest freezer for years and wouldn't be without
anything else. Any frost free freezer dries out what is being frozen. The
non frost free doesn't dry out and you can freeze most anything much longer
without any problems. The chest freezer is much cheaper to operate. Cold air
is heavier than warm air. When you open the freezer door the cold air stays
inside. The chest is better insulated than the upright freezer. Most
important, they are much cheaper.We paid about $200 for ours at Sears years
ago when upright freezers were three times as much.
Hope this helps,

lg

"Declan's Dad" > wrote in message
...
> My wife and I plan to buy this chest freezer:
> http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...rs&sName=Chest
>
> The reason is because we plan to join BJ's Wholesale club and start
> buying in bulk. And start freezing more so we can buy/use wisely. And
> our current regular fridge's freezer just can't handle.

Nice - are you feeding quite a few people?

> So just wondering if anyone here owns one and has any advice to share?

Consider the added cost to re-wrap all the food.
Don't buy food you don't use regrlarly just because its a good deal
Be sure to rotate your stock. & keep a running inventory so you don't
overload on 1 or 2 items
BJ's is not necessairly less expensive - it is less expensive for Higher
quality meat/food ergo sometimes a higher cost than the stores, but better
quality.


> Can you plug this into a 3 prong outlet just like any appliance that
> requires 3 prongs?

No problem



> Do these freezer add a lot to the electric bill?

The energy guide suggests $25.00 per year - based upon AVErage energy costs.
Based upon 279 KWh per year ar 2005 prices probably double by now or at
least + 50%.

Remember the more you open the freezer the more air/moisture you let in
although a chest is much more efficient than an upright, unless you are
constantly pulling out the upper basket to see what;'s below..

If there is a power failure DO NOT OPEN THE FREEZER - normally food will
stay frozen for several days.

Good Luck

Dimitri

Sheldon wrote:
> George > wrote:
>> Declan's Dad wrote:
>>> My wife and I plan to buy this chest freezer:
>>> http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...Name=Appliance...
>>> The reason is because we plan to join BJ's Wholesale club and start
>>> buying in bulk. And start freezing more so we can buy/use wisely. And
>>> our current regular fridge's freezer just can't handle.
>>> So just wondering if anyone here owns one and has any advice to share?
>> Like most things like this I would look at the bottom line cost assuming
>> there were no other circumstances. If you buy in bulk you need to break
>> things down into smaller sizes. So that involves extra wrapping or
>> containers you need to buy and your time to do it. Then you need to
>> track what you have or things will get lost which will be ruined and
>> need to be discarded negating your savings. Then you need to figure in
>> the cost to buy the freezer plus the cost to operate it.
>>
>> We used to have a separate freezer and we decided to stop using it about
>> ten years ago mainly because it made little sense for us. Sometime after
>> that my brother mentioned that they were gone away during the summer and
>> lost a bunch of stuff they had in the freezer when it failed. I offered
>> to give him ours for free but they also decided it wasn't worth it.
>
>
> I once owned a chest freezer, just not any advantage... agreed on all
> your points... plus I'd much rather put my pesos into an interest
> bearing savings account than stash mucho dinero worth of food in a
> freezer... it's easy to amass over a thousand dollars worth of food in
> a chest freezer, a good deal of which will be discarded due to
> spoilage... just one major power outage and you won't live long enough
> to catch up. In the US there is no shortage of food and there are
> sales every day, there is no valid reason to stock up on perishables,
> not unless you live like over a hundred miles from a stupidmarket.
> Folks who stock up huge freezers were deprived of food as a child and
> so have a phobia about starving, there is no other logical
> explanation. Aside from all the other associated expenses of bulk
> freezing you'll never amortize the cost of the freezer.
>
> And with the high price of electricity today don't kid yourself,
> running a freezer is not cheap, a large chest freezer (12-15 cu ft)
> costs at least a dollar a day to run... $365 still buys a lot of meat.
>
> It makes a lot more sense for a family to have a second refrigerator
> freezer. I have a small fridge freezer in my basement, I make more
> use of the fridge portion than the freezer. Right now that fridge is
> chock full with fresh veggies from my garden. And that few cu ft of
> extra freezer space is more than enough for the times when I need it
> for bulky items. A second fridge freezer is far more versatile than a
> big ol freezer.
>
> And before buying either consider where you'll keep it. you cannot
> keep a fridge or freezer in an unheated space that goes below 60F, or
> a space that gets overly warm without it costing a lot more energy and/
> or damaging the unit... out in a garage or porch that goes below 60F
> and/or above 80F is not a good idea.
>
> http://www.geappliances.com/search/f...e/10000320.htm
>
>

Shelly, you live with...six cats! Why do you need another refrigerator?

On Sep 29, 7:31*am, "Declan's Dad" > wrote:
> [snip]
> So just wondering if anyone here owns one and has any advice to share?
>
We had a chest freezer when I grew up in Alaska. We thought we needed
it because the stores in our small town were quite spotty in their
offerings, especially in the winter, so when there was something good
my mom stocked in extras. Plus friends gave us frozen venison and
moose and fish.

What no one has mentioned yet is that excellent results from very
careful wrapping and containerizing and very careful slow thawing
still inevitably results in something that is not as good as fresh.
Sometimes it's more than good enough, sometimes it's discernibly
inferior. If you buy flash frozen fish and transfer it promptly to
the freezer, fine. If you buy fresh fish and freeze it, sometimes
it'll be okay, sometimes not. Chuck roast that will become stew,
fine. High quality steak, you're throwing money away. It all depends
on what the item is, and there's nothing you can do about it. If you
don't wrap well, or if there's a power outage, results will be poor.

Nowadays in the lower 48 I have had no interest in a freezer. There
are plenty of markets and they always are well stocked. Freezers can
be convenient if you're willing to do the extra work involved. I
don't know if cost savings warrant the purchase and operating cost.
For us what matters most is that fresh food is almost always better.
-aem

On Sep 29, 8:22�pm, DK > wrote:
> Sheldon wrote:
> > George > wrote:
> >> Declan's Dad wrote:
> >>> My wife and I plan to buy this chest freezer:
> >>>http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...Name=Appliance...
> >>> The reason is because we plan to join BJ's Wholesale club and start
> >>> buying in bulk. And start freezing more so we can buy/use wisely. And
> >>> our current regular fridge's freezer just can't handle.
> >>> So just wondering if anyone here owns one and has any advice to share?
> >> Like most things like this I would look at the bottom line cost assuming
> >> there were no other circumstances. If you buy in bulk you need to break
> >> things down into smaller sizes. So that involves extra wrapping or
> >> containers you need to buy and your time to do it. Then you need to
> >> track what you have or things will get lost which will be ruined and
> >> need to be discarded negating your savings. Then you need to figure in
> >> the cost to buy the freezer plus the cost to operate it.
>
> >> We used to have a separate freezer and we decided to stop using it about
> >> ten years ago mainly because it made little sense for us. Sometime after
> >> that my brother mentioned that they were gone away during the summer and
> >> lost a bunch of stuff they had in the freezer when it failed. I offered
> >> to give him ours for free but they also decided it wasn't worth it.
>
> > I once owned a chest freezer, just not any advantage... agreed on all
> > your points... plus I'd much rather put my pesos into an interest
> > bearing savings account than stash mucho dinero worth of food in a
> > freezer... it's easy to amass over a thousand dollars worth of food in
> > a chest freezer, a good deal of which will be discarded due to
> > spoilage... just one major power outage and you won't live long enough
> > to catch up. �In the US there is no shortage of food and there are
> > sales every day, there is no valid reason to stock up on perishables,
> > not unless you live like over a hundred miles from a stupidmarket.
> > Folks who stock up huge freezers were deprived of food as a child and
> > so have a phobia about starving, there is no other logical
> > explanation. �Aside from all the other associated expenses of bulk
> > freezing you'll never amortize the cost of the freezer.
>
> > And with the high price of electricity today don't kid yourself,
> > running a freezer is not cheap, a large chest freezer (12-15 cu ft)
> > costs at least a dollar a day to run... $365 still buys a lot of meat.
>
> > It makes a lot more sense for a family to have a second refrigerator
> > freezer. �I have a small fridge freezer in my basement, I make more
> > use of the fridge portion than the freezer. �Right now that fridge is
> > chock full with fresh veggies from my garden. �And that few cu ft of
> > extra freezer space is more than enough for the times when I need it
> > for bulky items. �A second fridge freezer is far more versatile than a
> > big ol freezer.
>
> > And before buying either consider where you'll keep it. you cannot
> > keep a fridge or freezer in an unheated space that goes below 60F, or
> > a space that gets overly warm without it costing a lot more energy and/
> > or damaging the unit... out in a garage or porch that goes below 60F
> > and/or above 80F is not a good idea.
>
> >http://www.geappliances.com/search/f...e/10000320.htm
>
> Shelly, you live with...six cats! �Why do you need another refrigerator

I have a huge vegetable garden. Right now the fridge portion is
stuffed with cabbages, winter squash, peppers, and other home grown
produce. Soon that freezer will be full of veggie laden soups. It's
a rather small fridge freezer (15 cu ft), so costs little to operate
but comes in very handy all year.

On Sep 29, 8:50�pm, aem > wrote:
> On Sep 29, 7:31�am, "Declan's Dad" > wrote:> [snip]
> > So just wondering if anyone here owns one and has any advice to share?
>
> We had a chest freezer when I grew up in Alaska. �We thought we needed
> it because the stores in our small town were quite spotty in their
> offerings, especially in the winter, so when there was something good
> my mom stocked in extras. �Plus friends gave us frozen venison and
> moose and fish.
>
> What no one has mentioned yet is that excellent results from very
> careful wrapping and containerizing and very careful slow thawing
> still inevitably results in something that is not as good as fresh.
> Sometimes it's more than good enough, sometimes it's discernibly
> inferior. �If you buy flash frozen fish and transfer it promptly to
> the freezer, fine. �If you buy fresh fish and freeze it, sometimes
> it'll be okay, sometimes not. �Chuck roast that will become stew,
> fine. �High quality steak, you're throwing money away. �It all depends
> on what the item is, and there's nothing you can do about it. �If you
> don't wrap well, or if there's a power outage, results will be poor.
>
> Nowadays in the lower 48 I have had no interest in a freezer. �There
> are plenty of markets and they always are well stocked. �Freezers can
> be convenient if you're willing to do the extra work involved. �I
> don't know if cost savings warrant the purchase and operating cost.
> For us what matters most is that fresh food is almost always better.
> -aem

Eggsactly!

I have a second fridge freezer because I vegetable garden as a
*hobby*... there is definitely no monetary savings in growing ones own
veggies, I do it only because I enjoy gardening. Growing my own costs
at least *ten* times as much at buying at the stupidmarket... anyone
says they save money growing their own is either lying, a pinhead, or
both. I've been growing veggies too long to think I'm saving money...
when I first started some 55 years ago I truly believed I was gonna
save money. I spend more on gardening supplies each season than any
ten of yoose spend on produce all year.

"Nancy2" > wrote in message

I would absolutely not recommend an upright because every time you
open the door, you have the entire exposed surface just waiting to
pump out the cold air. A chest type is much more efficient because
the air doesn't come up and out so fast. If you don't need to worry
about a bad back, go for the chest type.

In addition, with an upright you almost have to get an auto-defrost
because they frost up so fast, relatively. These are just my
opinions, and not necessarily anyone else's.

N.
************************************************** *******

Certainly not my recommendation. It only gets opened maybe once a day so
how much air is lost in the course of a year? I can be in and out in
seconds as opposed to digging into the bottom of the chest freezer.

I defrost it about one every 15 to 18 months. It is also easier to defrost
than a chest.

I've had both and I'd never get a chest model again. Upright is just
sooooo much easier to deal with.

Sheldon wrote:

>
> I have a second fridge freezer because I vegetable garden as a
> *hobby*... there is definitely no monetary savings in growing ones own
> veggies, I do it only because I enjoy gardening. Growing my own costs
> at least *ten* times as much at buying at the stupidmarket... anyone
> says they save money growing their own is either lying, a pinhead, or
> both. I've been growing veggies too long to think I'm saving money...
> when I first started some 55 years ago I truly believed I was gonna
> save money. I spend more on gardening supplies each season than any
> ten of yoose spend on produce all year.


If you have the land to spare for a garden and good soil and a few hand
tools that you would need anyway, seed is relatively cheap, especially
if you buy it in bulk. However..... most people would rather buy a
rototiller than dig up a garden by hand and hoe it. I haven't seen
vegetable seed in bulk in years. My new neigbour decided to put in a
garden this year. He paid $850 for a used rototiller for his tractor, a
good deal, but like you say, a lot more than he would pay for fresh
vegetables.

My parents always had a vegetable garden. My father used to dig it up
by hand and my brothers and I weeded it by hand. We always had enough
fresh vegetables to keep us going for the year and my mother froze
enough beans that we had them several meals each week all winter. It was
a lot of work, but those fresh vegetables were really tasty.

It is a lot of expense for most people and it is a worthwhile hobby that
gets people outside. The big reward is the freshness and flavour.

On Sep 29, 10:50�pm, "Edwin Pawlowski" > wrote:
> "Nancy2" > wrote in message
>
> I would absolutely not recommend an upright because every time you
> open the door, you have the entire exposed surface just waiting to
> pump out the cold air. �A chest type is much more efficient because
> the air doesn't come up and out so fast. �If you don't need to worry
> about a bad back, go for the chest type.
>
> In addition, with an upright you almost have to get an auto-defrost
> because they frost up so fast, relatively. �These are just my
> opinions, and not necessarily anyone else's.
>
> N.
>
> Certainly not my recommendation. �It only gets opened maybe once a day so
> how much air is lost in the course of a year? �I can be in and out in
> seconds as opposed to digging into the bottom of the chest freezer.
>
> I defrost it about one every 15 to 18 months. � It is also easier to defrost
> than a chest.
>
> I've had both and I'd never get a chest model again. � Upright is just
> sooooo much easier to deal with.

If I were to get a freezer (not) it would definitely be an upright...
law of physics says losing cold air is no biggie, air has little
mass... so long as the freezer is properly filled with high mass
foods, (not a lot of bread, pizza, TV dinners, and the like) it
doesn't really matter much whether the door is opened once a day or
ten times a day... if your freezer usually has a lot of empty space
it's much better to stock it with half gallon cartons of fruit juice
than tube steak buns. Folks open their fridge umpteen times a day,
never giving much thought to how many times or for how long and their
energy use change is imperceptible, 'cause the darn things cycle
continuously whether the door is opened or not. Modern refrigeration
is far, far more forgiving than ye olde ice-a-box. The trick is to
keep the fridge properly filled with high mass foods too... if your
fridge is typically running on near empty then always keep it loaded
with a case of brewskis... large bottles of Colt 45 are much more
efficient than 12 oz cans (won't need to open the fridge so often for
refills either, hehe). All kidding aside, keeping half gallon jugs of
plain water in your fridge (and freezer) will save significant
energy... will also maintain cold longer during power outages... and
of course will keep your unit from working so hard so it will last
longer... spread the jugs of liquid around to maintain more even
temperature. I happen to like grapefruit juice so I keep a few half
gallons in my freezer and fridge. Thinking a chest freezer is more
efficient is just not true... when a chest freezer is kept properly
filled it will be open longer while rooting about to find stuff too...
it's far easier to operate an upright efficiently. And non frost free
freezers are not very efficient, for one they can't get as cold as
frost free units, secondly once there is even the slightest frost
accumulation efficiency goes way down (even eskimos know frost is an
excellent insulator against cold, and defrosting several times a year
(is what should be done) is more wasteful of energy, and what does one
do with all the food those few days. And non frost units don't keep
freezer burn at bay. When foods are properly wrapped freezer burn
cannot occur... so you are sealing with expensive packaging or you're
not, which is it?

Remember, the "cold" is stored/maintained best in the greatest mass,
not in the air. Once folks realize that refrigeration does not
produce cold... only then will they comprehend true efficiency...
refrigeration only removes heat. The scientific definition of cold is
the absence of heat... anyone with a room air conditioner can plainly
tell that's heat being pumped out, there is no cold pumped in.

Dave Smith wrote:
> Sheldon wrote:
>
> > I have a second fridge freezer because I vegetable garden as a
> > *hobby*... there is definitely no monetary savings in growing ones own
> > veggies, I do it only because I enjoy gardening. �Growing my own costs
> > at least *ten* times as much at buying at the stupidmarket... anyone
> > says they save money growing their own is either lying, a pinhead, or
> > both. �I've been growing veggies too long to think I'm saving money...
> > when I first started some 55 years ago I truly believed I was gonna
> > save money. �I spend more on gardening supplies each season than any
> > ten of yoose spend on produce all year.
>
> If you have the land to spare for a garden and good soil and a few hand
> tools that you would need anyway, seed is relatively cheap, especially
> if you buy it in bulk. However..... most people would rather buy a
> rototiller than dig up a garden by hand and hoe it. �I haven't seen
> vegetable seed in bulk in years.

Places like Agway sell vegetable seed in bulk, even mail order like
Burpee sells bulk seed. But for home gardening buying bulk seed is
wasteful, seed doesn't store well.


My new neigbour decided to put in a
> garden this year. He paid $850 for a used rototiller for his tractor, a
> good deal, but like you say, a lot more than he would pay for fresh
> vegetables.

That's a lot of money for a used rototiller for a home garden. When I
first moved here and ordered my tractors (I won't even mention the
price of tractors) I ordered a 5' rototiller too. I soon realized it
way too big for my garden... my tractor won't fit in my garden... so
there that $2,400 tiller sits in my barn, never used. So then I
bought a 7 horsepower Simplicity rototiller, $700. It's fine for
busting virgin soil but is way overkill for secondary tilling... don't
you believe those TV ads where you see some 70 year old 90 pound
granny operating a tiller with one hand... that 7 horse monster drags
me around, gives me a real work out. I used it two seasons and then
got wise, I bought one of those little Mantis tillers... don't let
it's size fool you, that thing works beautifully, and only $300. So,
I have $3,500 worth of tillers... how much salad will that buy at the
market? And tillers are only the tip of the iceberg. There's no end
to what gets spent on gardening... all those trips to the nursery just
to buy soil ammendments... bags of top soil, peat moss, etc, ain't
cheap.

> My parents always had a vegetable garden. �My father used to dig it up
> by hand and my brothers and I weeded it by hand. �We always had enough
> fresh vegetables to keep us going for the year and my mother froze
> enough beans that we had them several meals each week all winter. It was
> a lot of work, but those fresh vegetables were really tasty.
>
> It is a lot of expense for most people and it is a worthwhile hobby that
> gets people outside. The big reward is the freshness and flavour.

For me most of the benefit is in doing something rewarding outdoors.
Just remember that home gardening is a hobby like any other, it's not
to save money... golf is a hobby too, gardening costs as much. I
think of the cost of gardening as the price of my gym membership, but
I get a much better workout in far nicer suroundings, and no nekid
preditor Duh'Waynes ogling my Jolly Green Giant zuchinni in the
shower.

On Mon, 29 Sep 2008 11:02:09 -0500, zxcvbob wrote:

> *However* if the freezer ever loses power and thaws out, then
> freezes again, you'll know about it with the upright (cuz it will leak)
> but you might not find out with the chest freezer until you thaw
> something out and it's spoiled. I've read that you can put a plastic
> bowl or bag of ice cubes in the freezer on top of everything, and the
> ice cubes will melt if the freezer thaws out; when they refreeze they
> will no longer be cubes. Seems like a good idea.
>
> Bob

very clever idea on someone's part.

your pal,
blake

On Sep 30, 1:09�pm, blake murphy > wrote:
> On Mon, 29 Sep 2008 11:02:09 -0500, zxcvbob wrote:
> > *However* if the freezer ever loses power and thaws out, then
> > freezes again, you'll know about it with the upright (cuz it will leak)
> > but you might not find out with the chest freezer until you thaw
> > something out and it's spoiled. �I've read that you can put a plastic
> > bowl or bag of ice cubes in the freezer on top of everything, and the
> > ice cubes will melt if the freezer thaws out; when they refreeze they
> > will no longer be cubes. �Seems like a good idea.
>
> > Bob

Won't warn in time, what if no one opens the freezer for days...

>
> very clever idea on someone's part.

Yeah, some moron mick-vulva puss who never heard of electronic
temperature alarms.

http://www.cutleryandmore.com/details.asp?SKU=11391

On Sep 30, 2:53�pm, Sheldon > wrote:
> On Sep 30, 1:09 pm, blake murphy > wrote:
>
> > On Mon, 29 Sep 2008 11:02:09 -0500, zxcvbob wrote:
> > > *However* if the freezer ever loses power and thaws out, then
> > > freezes again, you'll know about it with the upright (cuz it will leak)
> > > but you might not find out with the chest freezer until you thaw
> > > something out and it's spoiled. I've read that you can put a plastic
> > > bowl or bag of ice cubes in the freezer on top of everything, and the
> > > ice cubes will melt if the freezer thaws out; when they refreeze they
> > > will no longer be cubes. Seems like a good idea.
>
> > > Bob
>
> Won't warn in time, what if no one opens the freezer for days...
>
>
>
> > very clever idea on someone's part.
>
> Yeah, some moron mick-vulva puss who never heard of electronic
> temperature alarms.
>
> http://www.cutleryandmore.com/details.asp?SKU=11391

Here's a model for freezer only, $10/free shipping:

http://www.kitchenkaboodle.com/produ...sku=TA10%21316

Sheldon wrote:

>
> My new neigbour decided to put in a
>> garden this year. He paid $850 for a used rototiller for his tractor, a
>> good deal, but like you say, a lot more than he would pay for fresh
>> vegetables.
>
> That's a lot of money for a used rototiller for a home garden.

It was a rototiller to fit on his tractor. He tilled a very large patch
of garden in a matter of minutes. He will get many years of use of out
that attachment.


> So then I
> bought a 7 horsepower Simplicity rototiller, $700. It's fine for
> busting virgin soil but is way overkill for secondary tilling... don't
> you believe those TV ads where you see some 70 year old 90 pound
> granny operating a tiller with one hand... that 7 horse monster drags
> me around, gives me a real work out.

They are not the easiest machines to use. That is for sure.


I used it two seasons and then
> got wise, I bought one of those little Mantis tillers... don't let
> it's size fool you, that thing works beautifully, and only $300. So,
> I have $3,500 worth of tillers... how much salad will that buy at the
> market? And tillers are only the tip of the iceberg. There's no end
> to what gets spent on gardening... all those trips to the nursery just
> to buy soil ammendments... bags of top soil, peat moss, etc, ain't
> cheap.

My neighbour did not need to add anything to his soil. The soil here is
good to start with. He put his garden where the old neighbour used to
have his pigs and chickens about a decade before. Everything came up
beautifully. The only trouble was they they went on vacation just about
the time that everything was ready to harvest. He enjoyed several meals
of fresh veggies from their garden.

Sheldon wrote:
> On Sep 29, 8:22�pm, DK > wrote:
>> Sheldon wrote:
>>> George > wrote:
>>>> Declan's Dad wrote:
>>>>> My wife and I plan to buy this chest freezer:
>>>>> http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...Name=Appliance...
>>>>> The reason is because we plan to join BJ's Wholesale club and start
>>>>> buying in bulk. And start freezing more so we can buy/use wisely. And
>>>>> our current regular fridge's freezer just can't handle.
>>>>> So just wondering if anyone here owns one and has any advice to share?
>>>> Like most things like this I would look at the bottom line cost assuming
>>>> there were no other circumstances. If you buy in bulk you need to break
>>>> things down into smaller sizes. So that involves extra wrapping or
>>>> containers you need to buy and your time to do it. Then you need to
>>>> track what you have or things will get lost which will be ruined and
>>>> need to be discarded negating your savings. Then you need to figure in
>>>> the cost to buy the freezer plus the cost to operate it.
>>>> We used to have a separate freezer and we decided to stop using it about
>>>> ten years ago mainly because it made little sense for us. Sometime after
>>>> that my brother mentioned that they were gone away during the summer and
>>>> lost a bunch of stuff they had in the freezer when it failed. I offered
>>>> to give him ours for free but they also decided it wasn't worth it.
>>> I once owned a chest freezer, just not any advantage... agreed on all
>>> your points... plus I'd much rather put my pesos into an interest
>>> bearing savings account than stash mucho dinero worth of food in a
>>> freezer... it's easy to amass over a thousand dollars worth of food in
>>> a chest freezer, a good deal of which will be discarded due to
>>> spoilage... just one major power outage and you won't live long enough
>>> to catch up. �In the US there is no shortage of food and there are
>>> sales every day, there is no valid reason to stock up on perishables,
>>> not unless you live like over a hundred miles from a stupidmarket.
>>> Folks who stock up huge freezers were deprived of food as a child and
>>> so have a phobia about starving, there is no other logical
>>> explanation. �Aside from all the other associated expenses of bulk
>>> freezing you'll never amortize the cost of the freezer.
>>> And with the high price of electricity today don't kid yourself,
>>> running a freezer is not cheap, a large chest freezer (12-15 cu ft)
>>> costs at least a dollar a day to run... $365 still buys a lot of meat.
>>> It makes a lot more sense for a family to have a second refrigerator
>>> freezer. �I have a small fridge freezer in my basement, I make more
>>> use of the fridge portion than the freezer. �Right now that fridge is
>>> chock full with fresh veggies from my garden. �And that few cu ft of
>>> extra freezer space is more than enough for the times when I need it
>>> for bulky items. �A second fridge freezer is far more versatile than a
>>> big ol freezer.
>>> And before buying either consider where you'll keep it. you cannot
>>> keep a fridge or freezer in an unheated space that goes below 60F, or
>>> a space that gets overly warm without it costing a lot more energy and/
>>> or damaging the unit... out in a garage or porch that goes below 60F
>>> and/or above 80F is not a good idea.
>>> http://www.geappliances.com/search/f...e/10000320.htm
>> Shelly, you live with...six cats! �Why do you need another refrigerator
>
> I have a huge vegetable garden. Right now the fridge portion is
> stuffed with cabbages, winter squash, peppers, and other home grown
> produce. Soon that freezer will be full of veggie laden soups. It's
> a rather small fridge freezer (15 cu ft), so costs little to operate
> but comes in very handy all year.

How many people are you feeding from that garden? If you found a way to
get a cat to eat vegetables, let me know!

-dk