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Old 01-02-2008, 02:59 AM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default Is this a knife sharpener?

Hi all,

I have a new Cuisinart knife set, but tossed the box before checking
on one crucial fact. I *think* my set includes a knife sharpener, but
never having used one like this, I want to be sure before I go tearing
up my knives. I also have no idea how to use said knife sharpener, so
please advise.

It looks like a long rounded skewer with a handle, with ridges running
all along the metal part. It has a rather dull point, so I don't think
it could possibly be anything else but please do let me know if you
know any other purpose for it.

How does one sharpen with this? Do I wet it first or use it dry?

Thanks in advance,
Jen

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Old 01-02-2008, 03:06 AM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default Is this a knife sharpener?

Jennyanniedots wrote:
Hi all,

I have a new Cuisinart knife set, but tossed the box before checking
on one crucial fact. I *think* my set includes a knife sharpener, but
never having used one like this, I want to be sure before I go tearing
up my knives. I also have no idea how to use said knife sharpener, so
please advise.

It looks like a long rounded skewer with a handle, with ridges running
all along the metal part. It has a rather dull point, so I don't think
it could possibly be anything else but please do let me know if you
know any other purpose for it.

How does one sharpen with this? Do I wet it first or use it dry?

Thanks in advance,
Jen


It's a "steel". It *is* used to freshen up the edge of (non-serrated!)
knives. Not really a sharpener, exactly, but it will give you a better
edge when you need it. Just run your blades at a very shallow angle down
the length of the steel, as if shaving bark off a stick. A couple
strokes on each side is all it takes.
A die-hard knife person would use the steel as the final touch after
actual sharpening of a blade, I believe...
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Old 01-02-2008, 03:45 AM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default Is this a knife sharpener?

Jennyanniedots wrote:
:It looks like a long rounded skewer with a handle, with ridges running
:all along the metal part. It has a rather dull point, so I don't think
:it could possibly be anything else but please do let me know if you
:know any other purpose for it.

:How does one sharpen with this? Do I wet it first or use it dry?


You don't. You put it in the trash can, and forget you ever saw it.
It's striated steel. The grooves cut serrations at the edge of the knife,
as it's realigning the edge. That gives it an edge that acts sharp --
it slices well, even though it won't cut -- briefly, and then quickly
dulls. It also very quickly eats up the knife. If you want a steel, get
a smooth one. That will actually work the way people say steels do, by
realigning the edge. If you do that regularly, you can extend the time
before the knife needs to be sharpened. Use a steel only on
straight-edged knives, not serrated.
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Old 01-02-2008, 05:01 AM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default Is this a knife sharpener?


It's a "steel". It *is* used to freshen up the edge of (non-serrated!)
knives. Not really a sharpener, exactly, but it will give you a better
edge when you need it. Just run your blades at a very shallow angle down
the length of the steel, as if shaving bark off a stick. A couple
strokes on each side is all it takes.
A die-hard knife person would use the steel as the final touch after
actual sharpening of a blade, I believe...- Hide quoted text -


THANK YOU, Dave!! I am SO tired of people who incorrectly advise
others to use a steel to "sharpen" their knives. I worked in a knife
shop for several years, and learned early that a steel merely re-
aligns the "burr" on the edge of knife -- it DOES NOT SHARPEN. I
can't tell you how many people we had come into the store and raise
hell because their "sharpener" never worked. Sometimes, even after
we'd explain it to them, they still wouldn't get it.

Ah, well....

~Eri in TX
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Old 01-02-2008, 05:53 AM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default Is this a knife sharpener?

Sqwertz wrote:
:On Fri, 1 Feb 2008 03:45:30 +0000 (UTC), David Scheidt wrote:

: It's striated steel. The grooves cut serrations at the edge of the knife,
: as it's realigning the edge. That gives it an edge that acts sharp --
: it slices well, even though it won't cut -- briefly, and then quickly
: dulls.

:I've steeled my knives every 8-10 uses and I have never had to
:have them sharpened.

You probably also have dull knives. Most people do, even those who
think they don't.

: It also very quickly eats up the knife.

:Maybe you're using aluminum knives, but they don't eat up the
:knives at all. Certainly not more than than even the slightest
:sharpening.

They do. Examine the edge before and after use, under a 10 or 20
power scope. A striated steel leaves very distinct, and quite
visible grooves at the edge. That's metal that's been removed from
the edge. A smooth steel won't remove metal from the edge, it merely
realigns the very edge.

: If you want a steel, get a smooth one. That will actually work the way
: people say steels do, by realigning the edge.

:All my steels have very shallow, practically microscopic
:striations. If you run your fingers down the shaft it feels
:smooth, but if you rub your fingers around the circumference of
:the rod you can tell its striated as there's some friction to it.

:This is probably what the OP has as well. Is this the kind
:you're referring to, or one that is completely smooth?

Smooth means smooth. What you're describing is a striated steel.
They come in different grades of fineness.


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Old 01-02-2008, 06:45 AM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default Is this a knife sharpener?

Sqwertz wrote:

:I really don't think you know what you're talking about, again.

You can think what you'd like. Your magical thinking, however,
doesn't change reality.

A couple random references:

http://web.archive.org/web/200412162.../artsteel.html

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=369532
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Old 01-02-2008, 05:25 PM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default Is this a knife sharpener?

"Felines&Fuzzbutts" wrote in message
...

It's a "steel". It *is* used to freshen up the edge of (non-serrated!)
knives. Not really a sharpener, exactly, but it will give you a better
edge when you need it. Just run your blades at a very shallow angle down
the length of the steel, as if shaving bark off a stick. A couple
strokes on each side is all it takes.
A die-hard knife person would use the steel as the final touch after
actual sharpening of a blade, I believe...- Hide quoted text -


THANK YOU, Dave!! I am SO tired of people who incorrectly advise
others to use a steel to "sharpen" their knives. I worked in a knife
shop for several years, and learned early that a steel merely re-
aligns the "burr" on the edge of knife -- it DOES NOT SHARPEN. I
can't tell you how many people we had come into the store and raise
hell because their "sharpener" never worked. Sometimes, even after
we'd explain it to them, they still wouldn't get it.

Ah, well....

~Eri in TX



Umm...you worked in a knife shop, and you knew those things about the
purpose of a steel, but you did not recognize a steel that was right in
front of your face?

Something about this scenario is wrong.


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Old 01-02-2008, 06:38 PM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default Is this a knife sharpener?

All my steels have very shallow, practically microscopic
striations. *If you run your fingers down the shaft it feels
smooth, but if you rub your fingers around the circumference of
the rod you can tell its striated as there's some friction to it.

This is probably what the OP has as well. *Is this the kind
you're referring to, or one that is completely smooth?


The striations run the long way and are very visible, even with the
naked eye. I'm confused about the difference between sharpening the
blade and realigning the edge. Is that what causes the blade to dull -
misalignment? I'm envisioning the edge of the blade getting bent over
slightly in one direction or the other. Am I visualizing this
correctly? It sounds like I should buy a better knife sharpener.
Recommendations?

Thanks!
-Jen


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Old 01-02-2008, 06:45 PM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default Is this a knife sharpener?

"Sqwertz" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 01 Feb 2008 17:25:37 GMT, JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

"Felines&Fuzzbutts" wrote in message
...

It's a "steel". It *is* used to freshen up the edge of (non-serrated!)
knives. Not really a sharpener, exactly, but it will give you a better
edge when you need it. Just run your blades at a very shallow angle
down
the length of the steel, as if shaving bark off a stick. A couple
strokes on each side is all it takes.
A die-hard knife person would use the steel as the final touch after
actual sharpening of a blade, I believe...- Hide quoted text -

THANK YOU, Dave!! I am SO tired of people who incorrectly advise
others to use a steel to "sharpen" their knives. I worked in a knife
shop for several years, and learned early that a steel merely re-
aligns the "burr" on the edge of knife -- it DOES NOT SHARPEN. I
can't tell you how many people we had come into the store and raise
hell because their "sharpener" never worked. Sometimes, even after
we'd explain it to them, they still wouldn't get it.

Ah, well....

~Eri in TX


Umm...you worked in a knife shop, and you knew those things about the
purpose of a steel, but you did not recognize a steel that was right in
front of your face?

Something about this scenario is wrong.


She's not the OP.


Oops. You're right. Never mind.


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Old 01-02-2008, 06:55 PM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default Is this a knife sharpener?

On Jan 31, 10:26 pm, Sqwertz wrote:
On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 18:59:26 -0800 (PST), Jennyanniedots wrote:
Hi all,


I have a new Cuisinart knife set, but tossed the box before checking
on one crucial fact. I *think* my set includes a knife sharpener, but
never having used one like this, I want to be sure before I go tearing
up my knives. I also have no idea how to use said knife sharpener, so
please advise.


It looks like a long rounded skewer with a handle, with ridges running
all along the metal part. It has a rather dull point, so I don't think
it could possibly be anything else but please do let me know if you
know any other purpose for it.


How does one sharpen with this? Do I wet it first or use it dry?


It's called a honing steel. Better let the web pages dfo the
explaining, with diagrams:

http://www.cutlery.com/honing.shtml


Person obvously was trained as a butcher !

John Kane, Kingston ON Canada


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Old 01-02-2008, 07:01 PM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default Is this a knife sharpener?

On Feb 1, 1:38 pm, Jennyanniedots wrote:
All my steels have very shallow, practically microscopic
striations. If you run your fingers down the shaft it feels
smooth, but if you rub your fingers around the circumference of
the rod you can tell its striated as there's some friction to it.


This is probably what the OP has as well. Is this the kind
you're referring to, or one that is completely smooth?


The striations run the long way and are very visible, even with the
naked eye. I'm confused about the difference between sharpening the
blade and realigning the edge. Is that what causes the blade to dull -
misalignment? I'm envisioning the edge of the blade getting bent over
slightly in one direction or the other. Am I visualizing this
correctly? It sounds like I should buy a better knife sharpener.
Recommendations?

Thanks!
-Jen


Think of it more like the blade looks like a comb and the teeth get a
bit bent.
Sharp blade
||||||||||

Dull blade
/\||//||\\/\|

The steel realigns the teeth so it works again.

A smooth steel applied regularly makes a great difference in how well
the knife cuts. I don't think I've ever seen a striated one.

You probably should have a knife sharpener too but as Dave Bell points
out they are two different things. You probaly should use the steel
every time you use the knife. You probably need to sharpen the knife
once or twice a year at most.

John Kane, Kingston ON Canada
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Old 01-02-2008, 07:39 PM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default Is this a knife sharpener?

Sqwertz wrote:
On Fri, 1 Feb 2008 06:45:34 +0000 (UTC), David Scheidt wrote:

Sqwertz wrote:

I really don't think you know what you're talking about, again.


You can think what you'd like. Your magical thinking, however,
doesn't change reality.

A couple random references:

http://web.archive.org/web/200412162.../artsteel.html

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=369532


You found a few obscure references. Want to see how many I can
dig up for the striated steels?

Like I said, my knives are in perfect condition after not having
been sharpened for years by using the striated steels. And at
the rate they're going, they'll last another 200+ years without
grinding down of the blade.

And yes, they're sharp. I do a lot of precise cutting and
dissection of tough foods.


I agree with you mate!
I was shown how to sharpen meat knives by a butcher in the '50s and have
been sharpening them with stones and steels for fifty years.
I have been sharpening knives, shears, scissors, guillotines, planes, saws,
chisels (metal and wood), drill bits, punches and cutters (Side and edge)
for friends and professionally for work mates for fortyfive years.
OK if a steel has been used badly one has to use a stone but once the knack
is learned a steel can be used on a kitchen knife almost forever (In the
long term they tend to remove the centre). You will rarely see a stone in a
butchers shop!
Stones are usually reserved for higher temper steels than used in kitchen or
meat knives.

So Jenny - ignor him and learn to use your steel - try asking your local
butcher how to do it :-)


Slatts

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Old 01-02-2008, 08:06 PM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default Is this a knife sharpener?

Jennyanniedots wrote:

:The striations run the long way and are very visible, even with the
:naked eye. I'm confused about the difference between sharpening the
:blade and realigning the edge. Is that what causes the blade to dull -
:misalignment? I'm envisioning the edge of the blade getting bent over
:slightly in one direction or the other. Am I visualizing this
:correctly? It sounds like I should buy a better knife sharpener.
:Recommendations?

A knife edge is formed by the intersection of the two two edges of the
knife. In general, the thinner edge, the sharper the knife. The
metal at and just behind the ege is very thin, and so it can be bent
over fairly easily. If you put the fingers of your hand together so
they form a fairly acute angle, you can visualize the edge. You can
visualize what happens when the edge gets misaligned by pushing your
fingers to one side. When the knife actually dulls, the metal at the
edge wears away, as well as be pushed out of the way. Yo ucan
visualize that by bending your first knuckles a bit so that finger
tips don't meet in good sharp angle, but in an edge that's a tad
blunt.

A misaligned edge can bent back into shape using a harder steel rod.
A dull edge needs to have metal ground away to reform the edge.
(Unless it's really dull, the amount removed is very small.) The steel
that came with your set is basically a file. It will, if it's hard
enough, realign the edge. It'll also remove metal from the edge.




--
sig 34
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Old 01-02-2008, 10:48 PM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default Is this a knife sharpener?

Sqwertz wrote:
Jennyanniedots wrote:

I have a new Cuisinart knife set, but tossed the box before checking
on one crucial fact. I *think* my set includes a knife sharpener, but
never having used one like this, I want to be sure before I go tearing
up my knives. I also have no idea how to use said knife sharpener, so
please advise.


It looks like a long rounded skewer with a handle, with ridges running
all along the metal part. It has a rather dull point, so I don't think
it could possibly be anything else but please do let me know if you
know any other purpose for it.


How does one sharpen with this? Do I wet it first or use it dry?


It's called a honing steel. �Better let the web pages dfo the
explaining, with diagrams:

http://www.cutlery.com/honing.shtml


I don't care what they call it, it doesn't hone (hones remove metal by
abrading), instead it burnishes... regardless, the correct
nomenclature is "knife steel".

M-W

bur�nish
transitive verb

: to rub (a material) with a tool for compacting or smoothing or for
turning an edge
---

hone
transitive verb

1 : to sharpen or smooth with a whetstone
---
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Old 01-02-2008, 11:28 PM posted to rec.food.cooking
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Default Is this a knife sharpener?

On Feb 1, 1:45�am, David Scheidt wrote:
Sqwertz wrote:

:I really don't think you know what you're talking about, again.

You can think what you'd like. �Your magical thinking, however,
doesn't change reality. �

A couple random references:

http://web.archive.org/web/200412162...ndamerican.com...

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=369532


Those hard smooth burnishing rods are not used for kitchen knives,
those are used to polish the edge of blades made of very hard steels,
typically fancy schmancy knives made more for show than go. Kitchen
knives are made of relatively soft steels, the softer the steel the
coarser the striations one should choose. Carbon steel blades are
best treated with a steel with coarser striations applying very light
pressure and used frequently... you know you are steeling properly by
the sound emited, the blade will actually sing. There are numerous
types of knife steels, not only with different striations but with
cross sections of various configurations, butchers tend to use oval
knife steels... some steels have helical striations rather than
linear, these maintain more striation surface in contact with the
blade edge with each stroke.

http://www.alliedkenco.com/catalog/i...ath/823_132_98








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