Now THIS will make ya hurl, kids...:


http://www.suntimes.com/lifestyles/h...ice02.article#

Hold the ice: What's in your glass might surprise you

COLD TRUTH | 'Someone's not washing their hands properly': 1 in 5 samples
from restaurants, bars found to have high levels of bacteria

December 2, 2007

BY ART GOLAB AND LEONARD N. FLEMING

Chicago _Sun - Times_

Next time you go out to eat or to a bar, it might be a good idea to say,
"Hold the ice."

"In a test of ice cubes from 49 fast-food and casual-dining restaurants and
hotel bars in the city and suburbs, the Chicago Sun-Times found that more
than one of every five samples contained high levels of bacteria.

» Click to enlarge image In a test of ice cubes from 49 eateries in the city
and suburbs, more than one of every five samples contained high levels of
bacteria.

Samples taken at three of the restaurants contained an undetermined amount
of fecal coliform, according to the findings of a government-certified
laboratory that performed tests on the samples for the newspaper.

By comparison, a water sample taken from a toilet in a men's room at the
Sun-Times tested cleaner than the ice obtained at 21 of the restaurants and
bars.


11 score worst

Drinking-water standards set by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency
mandate average levels of less than one colony of coliform bacteria per
milliliter.

Still, bacteria -- even fecal coliform -- aren't necessarily dangerous for
most people. But they can lead to illness, experts say, especially among
those who are very old or young,

Some highlights of the newspaper's findings:

.. . Ice from 11 restaurants or bars had high levels of
"total coliform bacteria" -- more than 200 bacteria colonies per milliliter
tested. These included an Applebee's at 7519 S. Cicero, a Chipotle Mexican
Grill at 10 S. LaSalle, a Starbucks at 444 N. Michigan, Asiago Express at
176 N. Wells, an Outback Steakhouse at 216 E. Golf Rd. in Schaumburg, a
Burger King at 6950 S. Pulaski, a Caribou Coffee at 3025 N. Clark, Rock
Bottom Restaurant and Brewery at 1 W. Grand, and the bars at three high-end
hotels -- the Drake Hotel at 140 E. Walton, the Hyatt Regency Chicago at 151
E. Wacker and the Sheraton Chicago at 301 E. North Water.

.. . Representatives of most of those said they adhere to all
recommended sanitary practices, several said they had taken additional steps
in response to the Sun-Times' findings, and several noted they routinely
pass health inspections. Ice, though, usually isn't tested by the Chicago
Health Department. Few health departments test ice because of the expense.

.. . Ten establishments had lower levels of total coliform
bacteria -- fewer than 200 colonies per milliliter.

.. . Nearly all of the ice tested that came from self-serve
ice machines had low levels of bacteria or none at all.

.. . Hotel lobby bars, where ice is often transported by and
handled by multiple people, didn't test as well: Three of four bars tested
had ice with high levels of bacteria.

.. . Twenty-eight of the 49 samples showed no bacteria at
all.

The findings shouldn't alarm people, experts said.

"It's not like you'll see people dropping over dead or huge numbers getting
sick because it's going to take just the right bacteria and the right person
to make them ill," said Penn State University's Brian Swistock, co-author of
the university's publication "Water Tests: What Do the Numbers Mean?"


'Would be a problem'

But high bacteria levels such as those found in some of the ice cube samples
might help explain some of the stomach ills people get, according to
Swistock and others.

"The illnesses are very nondescript," he said. "They might just be a
flu-like symptom, a little bit of nausea, a slight fever -- something that a
lot of people would write off as just being a bug that they got."

In any amount, though, the presence of fecal coliform bacteria -- as the
tests found at three restaurants -- "would be a problem," according to
Frances Guichard, director of food protection at the Chicago Health
Department.

"It means that obviously someone's not washing their hands properly, and
there's fecal mater," Guichard said. "If there's enough, it can make someone
sick."

And the more the ice comes in contact with people, the more likely it is to
become contaminated with bacteria, according to Mary Troken, director of the
food service sanitation program at Harold Washington College, one of the
City Colleges of Chicago.

"Ice, whether we all realize it or not, is really food, and it's very
mishandled," said Troken, a registered dietitian.

"If you've got someone who did not wash their hands properly, they might
have touched raw foods or gone to the washroom, and now they're touching the
ice; those are opportunities for the bacteria to get transferred to the
ice."


A snapshot

In the Sun-Times' tests, reporters ordered drinks with ice on the side or
got the ice from self-serve machines. Taking care not to touch the ice and
potentially contaminate it, they then transferred the cubes to sterile
containers. The melted water from the ice cubes was tested the same day by
Suburban Laboratories of Hillside, which is certified by the EPA.

For each sample, the lab counted the number of bacterial colonies and
determined whether fecal coliform bacteria were present.

The tests offered a snapshot -- of the particular ice cubes that were tested
on the particular day the samples were taken.

The testing did not follow all EPA protocols, which would include repeat
testing. Still, experts said it would be highly unlikely to get bacteria
readings of "too numerous to count" by contamination introduced in the
testing process.

In response to the test results, representatives of the restaurants and bars
where the ice cubes showed high levels of bacteria said they were taking the
findings seriously, even as some questioned them.

"Although we question the methodology," a Rock Bottom spokesman said, "we
did take immediate -- voluntary and precautionary -- steps to address the
situation. All ice machines in the building were drained and thoroughly
sanitized, and we retrained our staff regarding the proper handling of ice."


Health, safety 'a priority'

An Applebee's spokesman said: "The health and safety of our guests is a
priority. We have taken the necessary steps to ensure our ice-making and
water-supply systems are clean and sanitized."

A Starbucks spokesman said: "Starbucks policy requires that each store
undertake regular, thorough cleanings of their ice machines and ice bins. On
a daily basis, ice machines and ice bins are thoroughly wiped down with
sanitization solutions that kill bacteria and viruses. On a monthly basis,
the machines and bins are completely disassembled and fully cleaned and
sanitized from top to bottom."

Additionally, the spokesman said that, though an inspection it commissioned
"found no evidence of issues associated with the ice or ice machine, we
worked closely with the store involved in the investigation to ensure that
they immediately conducted an additional, thorough, top-to-bottom cleaning
of their ice container."


</>

In article >,
"Gregory Morrow" > wrote:

> Now THIS will make ya hurl, kids...:

> . . Ice from 11 restaurants or bars had high levels of
> "total coliform bacteria" -- more than 200 bacteria colonies per milliliter

> "It means that obviously someone's not washing their hands properly, and
> there's fecal mater," Guichard said. "If there's enough, it can make someone
> sick."

My sister has 6 dogs. They all lick their butts and genitals. They
don't get sick. All cats do this also.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

Dan Abel wrote:

> In article >,
> "Gregory Morrow" > wrote:
>
> > Now THIS will make ya hurl, kids...:
> > . . Ice from 11 restaurants or bars had high levels of
> > "total coliform bacteria" -- more than 200 bacteria colonies per milliliter
> > "It means that obviously someone's not washing their hands properly, and
> > there's fecal mater," Guichard said. "If there's enough, it can make someone
> > sick."
>
> My sister has 6 dogs. They all lick their butts and genitals. They
> don't get sick. All cats do this also.


That's why I don't have any pets, Dan...


:-)


"A dog walks into a bar..."


--
Best
Greg

On Sun, 2 Dec 2007 15:13:11 -0800 (PST), Gregory Morrow
> wrote:

>Dan Abel wrote:
>
>> In article >,
>> "Gregory Morrow" > wrote:
>>
>> > Now THIS will make ya hurl, kids...:
>> > . . Ice from 11 restaurants or bars had high levels of
>> > "total coliform bacteria" -- more than 200 bacteria colonies per milliliter
>> > "It means that obviously someone's not washing their hands properly, and
>> > there's fecal mater," Guichard said. "If there's enough, it can make someone
>> > sick."
>>
>> My sister has 6 dogs. They all lick their butts and genitals. They
>> don't get sick. All cats do this also.
>
>
>That's why I don't have any pets, Dan...

And all this time I thought Sheldon was your pet.

Lou Decruss wrote:

> On Sun, 2 Dec 2007 15:13:11 -0800 (PST), Gregory Morrow
>
>
>
>
>
> > wrote:
> >Dan Abel wrote:
>
> >> In article >,
> >> "Gregory Morrow" > wrote:
>
> >> > Now THIS will make ya hurl, kids...:
> >> > . . Ice from 11 restaurants or bars had high levels of
> >> > "total coliform bacteria" -- more than 200 bacteria colonies per milliliter
> >> > "It means that obviously someone's not washing their hands properly, and
> >> > there's fecal mater," Guichard said. "If there's enough, it can make someone
> >> > sick."
>
> >> My sister has 6 dogs. They all lick their butts and genitals. They
> >> don't get sick. All cats do this also.
>
> >That's why I don't have any pets, Dan...
>
> And all this time I thought Sheldon was your pet.


Naw, that'd be "cybercat"...

Getting back to pets, cats are okay, but I really CANNOT abide dogs,
they are generally filthy animals. And they are generally filthy
because of the neglectful owners...

My nabe is AWASH in the beasts, I'm CONSTANTLY dodging dogshit on the
sidewalks, in danger of getting entangled in dog leashes, etc...

Despite the leash laws, many idjits let their dogs off the lease...

The WORST offenders are airheaded young wimmin and *** men, they have
a propensity for irritating lil' yip - yap dogs, not just one, but two
are three...I guess they consider them fashion accessories.

People should NOT be allowed to have dogs unless they have a yard to
let them run in, in fact I'd ban dogs from the city proper entirely...

Anyways, that's my rant 'o the day...my next one will be "Morons
riding bicycles on the sidewalk"...


:-)


--
Best
Greg

On Mon, 3 Dec 2007 17:28:42 -0800 (PST), Gregory Morrow
> wrote:

>Lou Decruss wrote:

>> And all this time I thought Sheldon was your pet.
>
>
>Naw, that'd be "cybercat"...

Oh

>Getting back to pets, cats are okay, but I really CANNOT abide dogs,
>they are generally filthy animals. And they are generally filthy
>because of the neglectful owners...

Cat's are ok as long as they're not living with me. I try to avoid
going places that have dogs. We had the one Louise had until last
July. He's with the oldest daughter now. She and her boyfriend got a
place in beautiful Berwyn. They actually do need a dog in the
neighborhood, but dog has known the boyfriend for 5 years but he bit
him the first week, along with one of the neighbors. Now that oldest
daughter is an adult she's not real happy about him scooting his ass
on the nice rugs she bought. I wanted to put him down and they all
thought I was horrible. I just laugh when I hear the weekly problems
she has with him.
>
>My nabe is AWASH in the beasts, I'm CONSTANTLY dodging dogshit on the
>sidewalks, in danger of getting entangled in dog leashes, etc...
>
>Despite the leash laws, many idjits let their dogs off the lease...
>
>The WORST offenders are airheaded young wimmin and *** men, they have
>a propensity for irritating lil' yip - yap dogs, not just one, but two
>are three...I guess they consider them fashion accessories.

And they expect everyone else to think they're as cute as they think
they are. Kinda like babies.

>People should NOT be allowed to have dogs unless they have a yard to
>let them run in, in fact I'd ban dogs from the city proper entirely...

We had a double lot so he had lots of room, but I still hated the
mess.

>Anyways, that's my rant 'o the day...my next one will be "Morons
>riding bicycles on the sidewalk"...

I saw a kid riding very fast hit a leash as a woman came out on to the
sidewalk. The force brought the lady, the dog and the kid all
together. She was hurt but she still beat the crap out of the
asshole. By the time she was done he was bleeding too.

Lou

Dan Abel wrote:
>> "Gregory Morrow" wrote:
>
> > Now THIS will make ya hurl, kids...:
> > . . Ice from 11 restaurants or bars had high levels of
> > "total coliform bacteria" -- more than 200 bacteria colonies per milliliter
> > "It means that obviously someone's not washing their hands properly, and
> > there's fecal mater," Guichard said. "If there's enough, it can make someone
> > sick."
>
> My sister has 6 dogs. They all lick their butts and genitals.

Your sister can lick her own butt and genitals... oboy... I assume you
must have seen this, some guys have all the luck! <g>


Sheldon

In chi.eats Gregory Morrow > wrote:

ice machines are just ****ing nasty to start with.

ever look inside one?



> Now THIS will make ya hurl, kids...:
>
>
> http://www.suntimes.com/lifestyles/h...ice02.article#
>
> Hold the ice: What's in your glass might surprise you
>
> COLD TRUTH | 'Someone's not washing their hands properly': 1 in 5 samples
> from restaurants, bars found to have high levels of bacteria
>
> December 2, 2007
>
> BY ART GOLAB AND LEONARD N. FLEMING
>
> Chicago _Sun - Times_
>
> Next time you go out to eat or to a bar, it might be a good idea to say,
> "Hold the ice."
>
> "In a test of ice cubes from 49 fast-food and casual-dining restaurants and
> hotel bars in the city and suburbs, the Chicago Sun-Times found that more
> than one of every five samples contained high levels of bacteria.
>
> ? Click to enlarge image In a test of ice cubes from 49 eateries in the city
> and suburbs, more than one of every five samples contained high levels of
> bacteria.
>
> Samples taken at three of the restaurants contained an undetermined amount
> of fecal coliform, according to the findings of a government-certified
> laboratory that performed tests on the samples for the newspaper.
>
> By comparison, a water sample taken from a toilet in a men's room at the
> Sun-Times tested cleaner than the ice obtained at 21 of the restaurants and
> bars.
>
>
> 11 score worst
>
> Drinking-water standards set by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency
> mandate average levels of less than one colony of coliform bacteria per
> milliliter.
>
> Still, bacteria -- even fecal coliform -- aren't necessarily dangerous for
> most people. But they can lead to illness, experts say, especially among
> those who are very old or young,
>
> Some highlights of the newspaper's findings:
>
> . . Ice from 11 restaurants or bars had high levels of
> "total coliform bacteria" -- more than 200 bacteria colonies per milliliter
> tested. These included an Applebee's at 7519 S. Cicero, a Chipotle Mexican
> Grill at 10 S. LaSalle, a Starbucks at 444 N. Michigan, Asiago Express at
> 176 N. Wells, an Outback Steakhouse at 216 E. Golf Rd. in Schaumburg, a
> Burger King at 6950 S. Pulaski, a Caribou Coffee at 3025 N. Clark, Rock
> Bottom Restaurant and Brewery at 1 W. Grand, and the bars at three high-end
> hotels -- the Drake Hotel at 140 E. Walton, the Hyatt Regency Chicago at 151
> E. Wacker and the Sheraton Chicago at 301 E. North Water.
>
> . . Representatives of most of those said they adhere to all
> recommended sanitary practices, several said they had taken additional steps
> in response to the Sun-Times' findings, and several noted they routinely
> pass health inspections. Ice, though, usually isn't tested by the Chicago
> Health Department. Few health departments test ice because of the expense.
>
> . . Ten establishments had lower levels of total coliform
> bacteria -- fewer than 200 colonies per milliliter.
>
> . . Nearly all of the ice tested that came from self-serve
> ice machines had low levels of bacteria or none at all.
>
> . . Hotel lobby bars, where ice is often transported by and
> handled by multiple people, didn't test as well: Three of four bars tested
> had ice with high levels of bacteria.
>
> . . Twenty-eight of the 49 samples showed no bacteria at
> all.
>
> The findings shouldn't alarm people, experts said.
>
> "It's not like you'll see people dropping over dead or huge numbers getting
> sick because it's going to take just the right bacteria and the right person
> to make them ill," said Penn State University's Brian Swistock, co-author of
> the university's publication "Water Tests: What Do the Numbers Mean?"
>
>
> 'Would be a problem'
>
> But high bacteria levels such as those found in some of the ice cube samples
> might help explain some of the stomach ills people get, according to
> Swistock and others.
>
> "The illnesses are very nondescript," he said. "They might just be a
> flu-like symptom, a little bit of nausea, a slight fever -- something that a
> lot of people would write off as just being a bug that they got."
>
> In any amount, though, the presence of fecal coliform bacteria -- as the
> tests found at three restaurants -- "would be a problem," according to
> Frances Guichard, director of food protection at the Chicago Health
> Department.
>
> "It means that obviously someone's not washing their hands properly, and
> there's fecal mater," Guichard said. "If there's enough, it can make someone
> sick."
>
> And the more the ice comes in contact with people, the more likely it is to
> become contaminated with bacteria, according to Mary Troken, director of the
> food service sanitation program at Harold Washington College, one of the
> City Colleges of Chicago.
>
> "Ice, whether we all realize it or not, is really food, and it's very
> mishandled," said Troken, a registered dietitian.
>
> "If you've got someone who did not wash their hands properly, they might
> have touched raw foods or gone to the washroom, and now they're touching the
> ice; those are opportunities for the bacteria to get transferred to the
> ice."
>
>
> A snapshot
>
> In the Sun-Times' tests, reporters ordered drinks with ice on the side or
> got the ice from self-serve machines. Taking care not to touch the ice and
> potentially contaminate it, they then transferred the cubes to sterile
> containers. The melted water from the ice cubes was tested the same day by
> Suburban Laboratories of Hillside, which is certified by the EPA.
>
> For each sample, the lab counted the number of bacterial colonies and
> determined whether fecal coliform bacteria were present.
>
> The tests offered a snapshot -- of the particular ice cubes that were tested
> on the particular day the samples were taken.
>
> The testing did not follow all EPA protocols, which would include repeat
> testing. Still, experts said it would be highly unlikely to get bacteria
> readings of "too numerous to count" by contamination introduced in the
> testing process.
>
> In response to the test results, representatives of the restaurants and bars
> where the ice cubes showed high levels of bacteria said they were taking the
> findings seriously, even as some questioned them.
>
> "Although we question the methodology," a Rock Bottom spokesman said, "we
> did take immediate -- voluntary and precautionary -- steps to address the
> situation. All ice machines in the building were drained and thoroughly
> sanitized, and we retrained our staff regarding the proper handling of ice."
>
>
> Health, safety 'a priority'
>
> An Applebee's spokesman said: "The health and safety of our guests is a
> priority. We have taken the necessary steps to ensure our ice-making and
> water-supply systems are clean and sanitized."
>
> A Starbucks spokesman said: "Starbucks policy requires that each store
> undertake regular, thorough cleanings of their ice machines and ice bins. On
> a daily basis, ice machines and ice bins are thoroughly wiped down with
> sanitization solutions that kill bacteria and viruses. On a monthly basis,
> the machines and bins are completely disassembled and fully cleaned and
> sanitized from top to bottom."
>
> Additionally, the spokesman said that, though an inspection it commissioned
> "found no evidence of issues associated with the ice or ice machine, we
> worked closely with the store involved in the investigation to ensure that
> they immediately conducted an additional, thorough, top-to-bottom cleaning
> of their ice container."
>
>
> </>
>
>

Oh pshaw, on Sun 02 Dec 2007 03:44:43p, Cydrome Leader meant to say...

> In chi.eats Gregory Morrow >
> wrote:
>
> ice machines are just ****ing nasty to start with.
>
> ever look inside one?

That certainly can be true. At the company I work for we have a semi-
comercial kitchen setting in each of the break rooms on our two floors.
Each has an ice machine in it. We have a service that comes out monthly
that thoroughly cleans and sanitizes the ice machines. Our ice machines,
coffee makers, and chilled and hot water dispensiers are all fed by water
from R/O filteres.

Wayne

"Wayne Boatwright" > wrote in message
3.184...
> Oh pshaw, on Sun 02 Dec 2007 03:44:43p, Cydrome Leader meant to say...
>
>> In chi.eats Gregory Morrow >
>> wrote:
>>
>> ice machines are just ****ing nasty to start with.
>>
>> ever look inside one?
>
> That certainly can be true. At the company I work for we have a semi-
> comercial kitchen setting in each of the break rooms on our two floors.
> Each has an ice machine in it. We have a service that comes out monthly
> that thoroughly cleans and sanitizes the ice machines. Our ice machines,
> coffee makers, and chilled and hot water dispensiers are all fed by water
> from R/O filteres.
>
> Wayne


Not even hinting that the R/O filters are not kept clean, especially on such
a large scale organization.
We've used them for them at least 10 years, and we have a schedule for
replacement. I've read that even the R/O filters can be suspect.

As for not ordering ice in restaurants, I always ask for 'no ice.' Have for
many years.
Wonder if they go to the men's room to grab that glass full ;-))
Dee Dee

Oh pshaw, on Sun 02 Dec 2007 07:11:18p, Dee.Dee meant to say...

>
> "Wayne Boatwright" > wrote in message
> 3.184...
>> Oh pshaw, on Sun 02 Dec 2007 03:44:43p, Cydrome Leader meant to say...
>>
>>> In chi.eats Gregory Morrow >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> ice machines are just ****ing nasty to start with.
>>>
>>> ever look inside one?
>>
>> That certainly can be true. At the company I work for we have a semi-
>> comercial kitchen setting in each of the break rooms on our two floors.
>> Each has an ice machine in it. We have a service that comes out
>> monthly that thoroughly cleans and sanitizes the ice machines. Our ice
>> machines, coffee makers, and chilled and hot water dispensiers are all
>> fed by water from R/O filteres.
>>
>> Wayne
>
>
> Not even hinting that the R/O filters are not kept clean, especially on
> such a large scale organization.
> We've used them for them at least 10 years, and we have a schedule for
> replacement. I've read that even the R/O filters can be suspect.

I don't know the mainenance schedule for the R/O filters, but if it's
anything like the maintenance that everything else receives, it's with
sufficient frequency to keep them from being suspect.

> As for not ordering ice in restaurants, I always ask for 'no ice.' Have
> for many years.
> Wonder if they go to the men's room to grab that glass full ;-))
> Dee Dee

Depends on whom they're serving. :-)



--
Wayne Boatwright

Date: Sun, 12(XII)/2(II)/2007(MMVII)

*******************************************
Today is: First Sunday of Advent
Countdown 'til Christmas
3wks 4hrs
*******************************************
We're lost but we're making good time.
*******************************************

"Wayne Boatwright" > wrote in message
>
>> As for not ordering ice in restaurants, I always ask for 'no ice.' Have
>> for many years.
>> Wonder if they go to the men's room to grab that glass full ;-))
>> Dee Dee
>
> Depends on whom they're serving. :-)
>
>
>
> --
> Wayne Boatwright

LOL!
dd

Cydrome Leader wrote:
>
> ice machines are just ****ing nasty to start with... ever look inside one?

Are you kidding... I was married to one.

Sheldon wrote:

> Cydrome Leader wrote:
>
> > ice machines are just ****ing nasty to start with... ever look inside one?
>
> Are you kidding... I was married to one.


Lol...


--
Best
Greg

Oh pshaw, on Sun 02 Dec 2007 09:43:30p, Gregory Morrow meant to say...

> Sheldon wrote:
>
>> Cydrome Leader wrote:
>>
>> > ice machines are just ****ing nasty to start with... ever look inside
>> > one?
>>
>> Are you kidding... I was married to one.
>
>
> Lol...
>
>
> --
> Best
> Greg
>

Priceless!

--
Wayne Boatwright

Date: Sunday, December 2nd,2007

*******************************************
Today is: First Sunday of Advent
Countdown 'til Christmas
3wks 2hrs 15mins
*******************************************
Buy a Pentium Pro 200 so you can
reboot faster.

Gregory Morrow wrote:
> Now THIS will make ya hurl, kids...:
>
>
> http://www.suntimes.com/lifestyles/h...ice02.article#
>
> Hold the ice: What's in your glass might surprise you
>
> COLD TRUTH | 'Someone's not washing their hands properly': 1 in 5
> samples from restaurants, bars found to have high levels of bacteria
>
I don't understand this. Ice in a restaurant is is made by a machine. Ice
is place into glasses via an ice scoop. While I certainly believe too many
people don't wash their hands, I sincerely doubt they are grabbing ice with
their bare hands to fill glasses.

jmcquown wrote:


> Gregory Morrow wrote:
> > Now THIS will make ya hurl, kids...:
>
> >http://www.suntimes.com/lifestyles/h...ice02.article#
>
> > Hold the ice: What's in your glass might surprise you
>
> > COLD TRUTH | 'Someone's not washing their hands properly': 1 in 5
> > samples from restaurants, bars found to have high levels of bacteria
>
> I don't understand this. Ice in a restaurant is is made by a machine. Ice
> is place into glasses via an ice scoop. While I certainly believe too many
> people don't wash their hands, I sincerely doubt they are grabbing ice with
> their bare hands to fill glasses.


Most of the grunt work in these establishments is done by uneducated
immigrants who (despite "training") remain fairly unaware of basic
hygiene practices...

The ice machines themselves can be dirty...

Anyways, when humans are involved in the process, there is bound to be
some sort of "slip - up" at times...how many times have I seen a
bartender or whoever grab a piece of ice and throw it in a glass? Too
many times to count...

Also, I've seen in many places that ice is made in a machine and then
hauled to the bar stations in buckets...that additional handling step
can be another vector for germs.


--
Best
Greg

On Dec 2, 3:55 pm, Gregory Morrow > wrote:
> jmcquown wrote:
> > Gregory Morrow wrote:
> > > Now THIS will make ya hurl, kids...:
>
> > >http://www.suntimes.com/lifestyles/h...ice02.article#
>
> > > Hold the ice: What's in your glass might surprise you
>
> > > COLD TRUTH | 'Someone's not washing their hands properly': 1 in 5
> > > samples from restaurants, bars found to have high levels of bacteria
>
> > I don't understand this. Ice in a restaurant is is made by a machine. Ice
> > is place into glasses via an ice scoop. While I certainly believe too many
> > people don't wash their hands, I sincerely doubt they are grabbing ice with
> > their bare hands to fill glasses.
>
> Most of the grunt work in these establishments is done by uneducated
> immigrants who (despite "training") remain fairly unaware of basic
> hygiene practices...
>
> The ice machines themselves can be dirty...
>
> Anyways, when humans are involved in the process, there is bound to be
> some sort of "slip - up" at times...how many times have I seen a
> bartender or whoever grab a piece of ice and throw it in a glass? Too
> many times to count...
>
> Also, I've seen in many places that ice is made in a machine and then
> hauled to the bar stations in buckets...that additional handling step
> can be another vector for germs.

I always boil my ice for five minutes to kill any bacteria.

Oh pshaw, on Sun 02 Dec 2007 05:03:12p, meant to say...

> On Dec 2, 3:55 pm, Gregory Morrow > wrote:
>> jmcquown wrote:
>> > Gregory Morrow wrote:
>> > > Now THIS will make ya hurl, kids...:
>>
>> > >http://www.suntimes.com/lifestyles/h...S-ice02.articl
>> > >e#
>>
>> > > Hold the ice: What's in your glass might surprise you
>>
>> > > COLD TRUTH | 'Someone's not washing their hands properly': 1 in 5
>> > > samples from restaurants, bars found to have high levels of
>> > > bacteria
>>
>> > I don't understand this. Ice in a restaurant is is made by a
>> > machine. Ice is place into glasses via an ice scoop. While I
>> > certainly believe too many people don't wash their hands, I sincerely
>> > doubt they are grabbing ice with their bare hands to fill glasses.
>>
>> Most of the grunt work in these establishments is done by uneducated
>> immigrants who (despite "training") remain fairly unaware of basic
>> hygiene practices...
>>
>> The ice machines themselves can be dirty...
>>
>> Anyways, when humans are involved in the process, there is bound to be
>> some sort of "slip - up" at times...how many times have I seen a
>> bartender or whoever grab a piece of ice and throw it in a glass? Too
>> many times to count...
>>
>> Also, I've seen in many places that ice is made in a machine and then
>> hauled to the bar stations in buckets...that additional handling step
>> can be another vector for germs.
>
> I always boil my ice for five minutes to kill any bacteria.
>

This is, indeed, a wise move.,,especially if you like hot toddies.

--
Wayne Boatwright

Date: Sun, 12(XII)/2(II)/2007(MMVII)

*******************************************
Today is: First Sunday of Advent
Countdown 'til Christmas
3wks 5hrs 30mins
*******************************************
Mars needs women.
*******************************************

Wayne Boatwright wrote:

> Oh pshaw, on Sun 02 Dec 2007 05:03:12p, meant to say...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Dec 2, 3:55 pm, Gregory Morrow > wrote:
> >> jmcquown wrote:
> >> > Gregory Morrow wrote:
> >> > > Now THIS will make ya hurl, kids...:
>
> >> > >http://www.suntimes.com/lifestyles/h...S-ice02.articl
> >> > >e#
>
> >> > > Hold the ice: What's in your glass might surprise you
>
> >> > > COLD TRUTH | 'Someone's not washing their hands properly': 1 in 5
> >> > > samples from restaurants, bars found to have high levels of
> >> > > bacteria
>
> >> > I don't understand this. Ice in a restaurant is is made by a
> >> > machine. Ice is place into glasses via an ice scoop. While I
> >> > certainly believe too many people don't wash their hands, I sincerely
> >> > doubt they are grabbing ice with their bare hands to fill glasses.
>
> >> Most of the grunt work in these establishments is done by uneducated
> >> immigrants who (despite "training") remain fairly unaware of basic
> >> hygiene practices...
>
> >> The ice machines themselves can be dirty...
>
> >> Anyways, when humans are involved in the process, there is bound to be
> >> some sort of "slip - up" at times...how many times have I seen a
> >> bartender or whoever grab a piece of ice and throw it in a glass? Too
> >> many times to count...
>
> >> Also, I've seen in many places that ice is made in a machine and then
> >> hauled to the bar stations in buckets...that additional handling step
> >> can be another vector for germs.
>
> > I always boil my ice for five minutes to kill any bacteria.
>
> This is, indeed, a wise move.,,especially if you like hot toddies.
>


Hmm...I see a new appliance: a sterile ice maker that incorporates a
microwave to boil the water and then freezing elements to make the
ice...

Don't laff, I bet it'd sell...people buy all sortsa stupid stuff.

There is a "Margarita Maker" at one of the home stores I visited
recently, it goes for around $379.00. I asked one of the workers if
they sell any: "More than you'd think", was the reply...


--
Best
Greg

spamtrap1 writes:
>
> I always boil my ice for five minutes to kill any bacteria.

That's just silly... I always soak my ice cubes in vodka.

On Dec 2, 6:55�pm, Gregory Morrow > wrote:
> jmcquown wrote:
> > Gregory Morrow wrote:
> > > Now THIS will make ya hurl, kids...:
>
> > >http://www.suntimes.com/lifestyles/h...ice02.article#
>
> > > Hold the ice: What's in your glass might surprise you
>
> > > COLD TRUTH | 'Someone's not washing their hands properly': 1 in 5
> > > samples from restaurants, bars found to have high levels of bacteria
>
> > I don't understand this. �Ice in a restaurant is is made by a machine. �Ice
> > is place into glasses via an ice scoop. �While I certainly believe too many
> > people don't wash their hands, I sincerely doubt they are grabbing ice with
> > their bare hands to fill glasses.
>
> Most of the grunt work in these establishments is done by uneducated
> immigrants who (despite "training") remain fairly unaware of basic
> hygiene practices...
>
> The ice machines themselves can be dirty...
>
> Anyways, when humans are involved in the process, there is bound to be
> some sort of "slip - up" at times...how many times have I seen a
> bartender or whoever grab a piece of ice and throw it in a glass? �Too
> many times to count...
>
> Also, I've seen in many places that ice is made in a machine and then
> hauled to the bar stations in buckets...that additional handling step
> can be another vector for germs.
>
> --
> Best
> Greg

These days ice dispensers are used to fill glasses... very few
businesses are still scooping drink ice. And there is nothing new
about the concept... cold drink vending machines have contained ice
dispensers for nigh on fifty years now... often the ice, the syrup,
and the carbonated water was dispensed perfectly but the machine would
forget the cup, so I suppose you can say it was so automated that it
drank it for you too.

And many of these machines now employ UV lamps... all food businesses
are more and more installing UV treatment equipment for water.
Everyone should install a UV treatment system for their home, the cost
is negligible, certainly less than a year's supply of bottled water...
and it continously treats all water used in the home at the same low
price, energy costs the price of using a 60w bulb, especially
important to treat is water used for bathing, hand washing, tooth
brushing, and of course drinking. I have no idea why intelligent folks
buy bottled water, it's ridiculously costly and isn't any better
quality than what comes from the corner gas station hose bib...
bottled water is not sterile water.. those chic name brands is
actually filthy water.... you're paying mostly for transporting, and
advertising, and of course the plastic bottles that also fercockt the
planet. Most people can install and maintain the UV water treatment
equipment themselves... the only costly part is replacing the UV lamp
once a year, costs about $40... all the water used in your house
treated for about 5 cents a day.

Sheldon

Sheldon > wrote:
> These days ice dispensers are used to fill glasses... very few
> businesses are still scooping drink ice. And there is nothing new
> about the concept... cold drink vending machines have contained ice
> dispensers for nigh on fifty years now... often the ice, the syrup,
> and the carbonated water was dispensed perfectly but the machine would
> forget the cup, so I suppose you can say it was so automated that it
> drank it for you too.

you live in the suburbs or in some place where everything is new.

On Mon, 3 Dec 2007 21:45:26 +0000 (UTC), Geoff Gass >
wrote:

>Sheldon > wrote:
>> These days ice dispensers are used to fill glasses... very few
>> businesses are still scooping drink ice. And there is nothing new
>> about the concept... cold drink vending machines have contained ice
>> dispensers for nigh on fifty years now... often the ice, the syrup,
>> and the carbonated water was dispensed perfectly but the machine would
>> forget the cup, so I suppose you can say it was so automated that it
>> drank it for you too.
>
>you live in the suburbs or in some place where everything is new.

Yep. He lives in Pleasantview.

On Dec 3, 1:45 pm, Geoff Gass > wrote:
> Sheldon > wrote:
> > These days ice dispensers are used to fill glasses... very few
> > businesses are still scooping drink ice. And there is nothing new
> > about the concept... cold drink vending machines have contained ice
> > dispensers for nigh on fifty years now... often the ice, the syrup,
> > and the carbonated water was dispensed perfectly but the machine would
> > forget the cup, so I suppose you can say it was so automated that it
> > drank it for you too.
>
> you live in the suburbs or in some place where everything is new.

The people who work at my suburban taqueria fill the coke dispenser
from a bucket full of ice.

On Mon, 3 Dec 2007 19:14:31 GMT, Janet Baraclough
> wrote:

>The message
>
>from Sheldon > contains these words:
>
>
>> Everyone should install a UV treatment system for their home, the cost
>> is negligible, certainly less than a year's supply of bottled water...
>> and it continously treats all water used in the home at the same low
>> price, energy costs the price of using a 60w bulb, especially
>> important to treat is water used for bathing, hand washing, tooth
>> brushing, and of course drinking.
>
>The message
>
>from Sheldon > contains these words:
>
>> It's a dirty world, everything contains germs... but normal healthy
>> beings have properly functioning immune systems. It's only the very
>> young, the very old, and those with compromised immune systems who
>> need to take extra precautions. If we made sure to live in a sterile
>> environment then we'd all have extremely compromised immune systems,
>> in fact we'd have no immunity whatsoever.
>
> Sheldon has got lost in his head, again.

You mean he found it for awhile?

Janet Baraclough wrote:

> The message
> >
> from Sheldon > contains these words:
>
>> It's a dirty world, everything contains germs... but normal healthy
>> beings have properly functioning immune systems. It's only the very
>> young, the very old, and those with compromised immune systems who
>> need to take extra precautions. If we made sure to live in a sterile
>> environment then we'd all have extremely compromised immune systems,
>> in fact we'd have no immunity whatsoever.
>
> Sheldon has got lost in his head, again.
>
> Janet
>
Except what you quote of his post above is absolutely correct.

Goomba38 wrote:

> Janet Baraclough wrote:
>
>> The message
>> >
>> from Sheldon > contains these words:
>>
>>> It's a dirty world, everything contains germs... but normal healthy
>>> beings have properly functioning immune systems. It's only the very
>>> young, the very old, and those with compromised immune systems who
>>> need to take extra precautions. If we made sure to live in a sterile
>>> environment then we'd all have extremely compromised immune systems,
>>> in fact we'd have no immunity whatsoever.
>>
>> Sheldon has got lost in his head, again.
>>
>> Janet
>>
> Except what you quote of his post above is absolutely correct.

I think I'll go eat worms.

--
Blinky
Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project - http://improve-usenet.org

Janet Baraclough wrote:
> The message >
> from Goomba38 > contains these words:
>
>> Janet Baraclough wrote:
>
>>> The message
>>> >
>>> from Sheldon > contains these words:
>>>
>>>> It's a dirty world, everything contains germs... but normal healthy
>>>> beings have properly functioning immune systems. It's only the very
>>>> young, the very old, and those with compromised immune systems who
>>>> need to take extra precautions. If we made sure to live in a sterile
>>>> environment then we'd all have extremely compromised immune systems,
>>>> in fact we'd have no immunity whatsoever.
>>> Sheldon has got lost in his head, again.
>>>
>>> Janet
>>>
>> Except what you quote of his post above is absolutely correct.
> Duh; the point was, in one thread he made two entirely contradictory
> posts; the one above, and the one you edited out, climing it's necessary
> to sterilise everything .
>
> Janet
>
> Janet

I didn't read that other comment, honestly. I'll have to check the
archives and see what you're talking about.

jmcquown wrote:

> I don't understand this. Ice in a restaurant is is made by a machine. Ice
> is place into glasses via an ice scoop. While I certainly believe too many
> people don't wash their hands, I sincerely doubt they are grabbing ice with
> their bare hands to fill glasses.

At my hospital we have a McDonald's (yeah, I know...) and I've watched
them load ice into the beverage dispenser by the bucket load. Some young
guy climbs up and dumps huge buckets of it into the top of the dispenser.

writes:
>jmcquown wrote:
>
>> I don't understand this. Ice in a restaurant is is made by a machine. Ice
>> is place into glasses via an ice scoop. While I certainly believe too many
>> people don't wash their hands, I sincerely doubt they are grabbing ice with
>> their bare hands to fill glasses.
>
>At my hospital we have a McDonald's (yeah, I know...) and I've watched
>them load ice into the beverage dispenser by the bucket load. Some young
>guy climbs up and dumps huge buckets of it into the top of the dispenser.

I worked one day at a restaurant where I observed the following
procedure. 1. Take two buckets, one stacked inside the other,
down to the ice machine. 2. Place both buckets on the floor and
fill each of them with ice. 3. Carry the buckets back upstairs
and dump the ice into the place where it goes under the counter.
4. Set buckets on the floor, one stacked inside the other. This
method of contaminating the ice is only slightly more elaborate
than dropping the ice on the floor directly.

In article >,
tert in seattle > wrote:

> I worked one day at a restaurant

quit or fired?

On Dec 3, 7:58 am, kenji > wrote:
> In article >,
> tert in seattle > wrote:
>
> > I worked one day at a restaurant
>
> quit or fired?

Could be Rent-a-Temp, too.

Goomba38 wrote:
> jmcquown wrote:
>
>> I don't understand this. Ice in a restaurant is is made by a
>> machine. Ice is place into glasses via an ice scoop. While I
>> certainly believe too many people don't wash their hands, I
>> sincerely doubt they are grabbing ice with their bare hands to fill
>> glasses.
>
> At my hospital we have a McDonald's (yeah, I know...) and I've watched
> them load ice into the beverage dispenser by the bucket load. Some
> young guy climbs up and dumps huge buckets of it into the top of the
> dispenser.

(Sorry I didn't notice this was cross-posted to begin with.) Anyway, I
guess I wasn't thinking about restaurants with beverage dispensers. I never
worked in a restaurant that required ice to be poured into such a
contraption. But then, I've never worked at McDonald's.

As for the comment from someone on the other ng about ice machines can be
dirty, that's true. But the establishments where I worked completely
drained the ice machines and scrubbed them out at least once a month.
They'd alternate cleaning the machines in order to ensure there was plenty
of ice when the restaurant opened the next day.

Jill

jmcquown wrote:

> I don't understand this. Ice in a restaurant is is made by a machine. Ice
> is place into glasses via an ice scoop. While I certainly believe too many
> people don't wash their hands, I sincerely doubt they are grabbing ice with
> their bare hands to fill glasses.

Sure, they could -- they might be using the glass itself as the scoop,
for instance, dragging their dirty hand through the ice in the process.

Note that the self-serve machines are not the problem. I assume that
means the machines which spit out ice cubes from a spout, which does not
allow the user to reach into the bin and fondle the ice cubes with his
hands.

This is all hand-to-mouth contamination going on here, and serves as a
reminder that some bad things are not killed by cold temps.

Quick refresher diagram:

any feces )
raw chicken ) ---> ( hand ) --> ( mouth )
other bad )

Cuthbert Thistlethwaite wrote:
> jmcquown wrote:
>
>> I don't understand this. Ice in a restaurant is is made by a
>> machine. Ice is place into glasses via an ice scoop. While I
>> certainly believe too many people don't wash their hands, I
>> sincerely doubt they are grabbing ice with their bare hands to fill
>> glasses.
>
> Sure, they could -- they might be using the glass itself as the scoop,
> for instance, dragging their dirty hand through the ice in the
> process.
>
If I had an employee in a restaurant (assuming I had a restaurant, which I
don't, but I've worked in a few) who was seen doing that they'd be out the
door, no excuses. If I *saw* an employee doing something like that I'd be
reporting them to the manager ASAP.

Jill

"jmcquown" > wrote in message
...
> Cuthbert Thistlethwaite wrote:
>> jmcquown wrote:
>>
>>> I don't understand this. Ice in a restaurant is is made by a
>>> machine. Ice is place into glasses via an ice scoop. While I
>>> certainly believe too many people don't wash their hands, I
>>> sincerely doubt they are grabbing ice with their bare hands to fill
>>> glasses.
>>
>> Sure, they could -- they might be using the glass itself as the scoop,
>> for instance, dragging their dirty hand through the ice in the
>> process.
>>
> If I had an employee in a restaurant (assuming I had a restaurant, which I
> don't, but I've worked in a few) who was seen doing that they'd be out the
> door, no excuses. If I *saw* an employee doing something like that I'd be
> reporting them to the manager ASAP.
>
> Jill
>

Unnoticeable poop on knuckles. Knuckles drags across the ice. Ice becomes
contaminated.

Or just plain unnoticeable dirty hands. One cannot see every hand.
I suppose this goes for all touched food in a restaurant.

I really go nuts when I see people working there putting their hands up to
their nose holes and mouths and scratching their scalp.

Another thing I go nuts about is seeing the wait person picking up someone
elses food with her thumb in the remaining scraps; running back to the
kitchen, coming out with your own food, thumb sticking on the side of the
plate.

One cannot police the world -- fix thy own food!
Dee Dee

Dee.Dee wrote:
> "jmcquown" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Cuthbert Thistlethwaite wrote:
>>> jmcquown wrote:
>>>
>>>> I don't understand this. Ice in a restaurant is is made by a
>>>> machine. Ice is place into glasses via an ice scoop. While I
>>>> certainly believe too many people don't wash their hands, I
>>>> sincerely doubt they are grabbing ice with their bare hands to fill
>>>> glasses.
>>> Sure, they could -- they might be using the glass itself as the scoop,
>>> for instance, dragging their dirty hand through the ice in the
>>> process.
>>>
>> If I had an employee in a restaurant (assuming I had a restaurant, which I
>> don't, but I've worked in a few) who was seen doing that they'd be out the
>> door, no excuses. If I *saw* an employee doing something like that I'd be
>> reporting them to the manager ASAP.
>>
>> Jill
>>
>
> Unnoticeable poop on knuckles. Knuckles drags across the ice. Ice becomes
> contaminated.
>
> Or just plain unnoticeable dirty hands. One cannot see every hand.
> I suppose this goes for all touched food in a restaurant.
>
> I really go nuts when I see people working there putting their hands up to
> their nose holes and mouths and scratching their scalp.
>
> Another thing I go nuts about is seeing the wait person picking up someone
> elses food with her thumb in the remaining scraps; running back to the
> kitchen, coming out with your own food, thumb sticking on the side of the
> plate.
>
> One cannot police the world -- fix thy own food!

Ahem, so I suppose "Doggy bags" are out?
--
Cheers
Chatty Cathy

Garlic: the element without which life as we know it would be impossible

jmcquown wrote:
> Gregory Morrow wrote:
>> Now THIS will make ya hurl, kids...:
>>
>>
>> http://www.suntimes.com/lifestyles/h...ice02.article#
>>
>> Hold the ice: What's in your glass might surprise you
>>
>> COLD TRUTH | 'Someone's not washing their hands properly': 1 in 5
>> samples from restaurants, bars found to have high levels of bacteria
>>
> I don't understand this. Ice in a restaurant is is made by a machine. Ice
> is place into glasses via an ice scoop. While I certainly believe too many
> people don't wash their hands, I sincerely doubt they are grabbing ice with
> their bare hands to fill glasses.
>
>
Municipal water contains an irreducible small number of bacteria.
Therefore, the water in the ice machine contains bacteria, but it stays
in the ice machine long enough for the chlorine to evaporate, so the
bacteria can begin to multiply.
The water in the toilet is flushed often, so the chlorine doesn't have
time to evaporate. The bacteria level stays fairly low.
There are bacteria growing on your teeth RIGHT NOW.

I added that last part just for fun...

none wrote:
>
>
> Municipal water contains an irreducible small number of bacteria.
> Therefore, the water in the ice machine contains bacteria, but it stays
> in the ice machine long enough for the chlorine to evaporate, so the
> bacteria can begin to multiply.
> The water in the toilet is flushed often, so the chlorine doesn't have
> time to evaporate. The bacteria level stays fairly low.
> There are bacteria growing on your teeth RIGHT NOW.


I suppose that you mean that the chlorine sublimates, but it can only do
that if it is at the surface area of the ice, which is so cold that it is
not conducive for the bacteria to reproduce.

The water in the flush reservoir tank has a large surface area for the
chlorine to escape. Best that you can hope is that the tank is flushed
often enough that there is a fairly downward flow of heavily chlorinated
water. I get my water from a well. It is not chlorinated except the odd
time that I toss some bleach into it. I don't see myself drinking from the
toilet tank. I don't assume that it is automatically full of shit just
because it is attached to the toilet bowl, which sometimes is, but you'll
have a hard time convincing me that it is not unsafe to drink.