You know those inexpensive seedless green grapes that you buy at the
grocery store. What kind of grapes are they and will they make a halfway
decent wine?

Scott wrote on Wed, 27 Jun 2007 10:04:43 -0500:

S> You know those inexpensive seedless green grapes that you
S> buy at the grocery store. What kind of grapes are they and
S> will they make a halfway decent wine?

Aren't they Thomson Seedless?

I don't think wine from them would be all that great but, as my
grandfather demonstrated frequently, you can make wine from the
right yeast and any sweetened fruit juice or even dandelion
flowers and elder berries. I've read that an uninteresting wine
can be made from plain sugar solution and grape yeasts.


James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

E-mail, with obvious alterations:
not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

"Scott" > wrote in message
...
> You know those inexpensive seedless green grapes that you buy at the
> grocery store. What kind of grapes are they and will they make a halfway
> decent wine?

Scott,

Yes you could make wine, now whether it meets the halfway decent category is
beyond my knowledge. Try the folks at rec.crafts.winemaking.

KW

Scott said...

> You know those inexpensive seedless green grapes that you buy at the
> grocery store. What kind of grapes are they and will they make a halfway
> decent wine?


They probably wouldn't be inexpensive if you wanted to make any decent amount
of wine.

Good luck,

Andy

On Jun 27, 11:35?am, Andy <g> wrote:
> Scott said...
>
> > You know those inexpensive seedless green grapes that you buy at the
> > grocery store. What kind of grapes are they and will they make a halfway
> > decent wine?
>
> They probably wouldn't be inexpensive if you wanted to make any decent amount
> of wine.

This is true... you'd need like 10 pounds per gallon. For home
winemaking I suggest dried fruit. You can obtain excellent quality
raisins in bulk for relatively cheap, from the Sunmaid site.

These are far superior quality than what you buy at the stupidmarket.
http://altapacific.com/secure/sunmai...pt_id=5&flag=1

I buy various of their products, all excellent... if you're a prune
lover their pit-in prunes are to die for, never seen more perfect
prunes. Their figs are excellent too... all their products are
wonderful

Sheldon

James Silverton wrote:
> Scott wrote on Wed, 27 Jun 2007 10:04:43 -0500:
>
> S> You know those inexpensive seedless green grapes that you
> S> buy at the grocery store. What kind of grapes are they and
> S> will they make a halfway decent wine?
>
> Aren't they Thomson Seedless?
>
> I don't think wine from them would be all that great but, as my
> grandfather demonstrated frequently, you can make wine from the right
> yeast and any sweetened fruit juice or even dandelion flowers and elder
> berries. I've read that an uninteresting wine can be made from plain
> sugar solution and grape yeasts.


Thanks for pointing me in the right direction. Thomson seedless uses the
sultana grape. I found this recipe for sultana wine:
http://home.btconnect.com/ntruman/wine/sultanawine2.htm

In article >, Andy <g> wrote:

> Scott said...
>
> > You know those inexpensive seedless green grapes that you buy at the
> > grocery store. What kind of grapes are they and will they make a halfway
> > decent wine?
>
>
> They probably wouldn't be inexpensive if you wanted to make any decent amount
> of wine.


They are Thompson Seedless, and are a table grape rather than a wine
grape. Some less expensive white wines from California use Thompson
Seedless grapes from the Central Valley, because they are very high
yielding when irrigated.

Some winemaking stores sell wine grapes. These are generally ordered in
advance, and come in "when it's time". The stores often rent wine
presses.

>
> They are Thompson Seedless, and are a table grape rather than a wine
> grape. Some less expensive white wines from California use Thompson
> Seedless grapes from the Central Valley, because they are very high
> yielding when irrigated.
>

I wonder if some wineries use this grape as a blend grape.

In article >,
Scott > wrote:

> James Silverton wrote:
> > Scott wrote on Wed, 27 Jun 2007 10:04:43 -0500:
> >
> > S> You know those inexpensive seedless green grapes that you
> > S> buy at the grocery store. What kind of grapes are they and
> > S> will they make a halfway decent wine?
> >
> > Aren't they Thomson Seedless?
> >
> > I don't think wine from them would be all that great but, as my
> > grandfather demonstrated frequently, you can make wine from the right
> > yeast and any sweetened fruit juice or even dandelion flowers and elder
> > berries. I've read that an uninteresting wine can be made from plain
> > sugar solution and grape yeasts.
>
>
> Thanks for pointing me in the right direction. Thomson seedless uses the
> sultana grape. I found this recipe for sultana wine:

> http://home.btconnect.com/ntruman/wine/sultanawine2.htm

The recipe looks good, but think you have things backwards. Sultanas
are raisins, and raisins in California are often made with Thompson
Seedless grapes. People don't want their raisins with seeds any more
than they want their table grapes with seeds.

On Jun 27, 2:28?pm, Scott > wrote:
> > They are Thompson Seedless, and are a table grape rather than a wine
> > grape. Some less expensive white wines from California use Thompson
> > Seedless grapes from the Central Valley, because they are very high
> > yielding when irrigated.
>
> I wonder if some wineries use this grape as a blend grape.

Probably not... table grapes bring more money than wine grapes... wine
grapes are generally not very palatable eaten out of hand.

>
> The recipe looks good, but think you have things backwards. Sultanas
> are raisins, and raisins in California are often made with Thompson
> Seedless grapes. People don't want their raisins with seeds any more
> than they want their table grapes with seeds.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sultana_(grape)

In article .com>,
Sheldon > wrote:

> On Jun 27, 2:28?pm, Scott > wrote:
> > > They are Thompson Seedless, and are a table grape rather than a wine
> > > grape. Some less expensive white wines from California use Thompson
> > > Seedless grapes from the Central Valley, because they are very high
> > > yielding when irrigated.
> >
> > I wonder if some wineries use this grape as a blend grape.
>
> Probably not... table grapes bring more money than wine grapes... wine
> grapes are generally not very palatable eaten out of hand.

Gallo was offering US$125 a ton for Thompson Seedless grapes:

http://www.avenuevine.com/movabletyp...es/001700.html

Quality wine grapes were running US$1800 to US$4800:

http://www.napagrowers.org/prices_06.htm

On Jun 27, 6:34?pm, Dan Abel > wrote:
> In article .com>,
>
> Sheldon > wrote:
> > On Jun 27, 2:28?pm, Scott > wrote:
> > > > They are Thompson Seedless, and are a table grape rather than a wine
> > > > grape. Some less expensive white wines from California use Thompson
> > > > Seedless grapes from the Central Valley, because they are very high
> > > > yielding when irrigated.
>
> > > I wonder if some wineries use this grape as a blend grape.
>
> > Probably not... table grapes bring more money than wine grapes... wine
> > grapes are generally not very palatable eaten out of hand.
>
> Gallo was offering US$125 a ton for Thompson Seedless grapes:
>
> http://www.avenuevine.com/movabletyp...es/001700.html
>
> Quality wine grapes were running US$1800 to US$4800:
>
> http://www.napagrowers.org/prices_06.htm

I didn't take the time to explain with minutia, didn't think I'd need
too... only winerys will pay that kind of money for wine grapes... and
certainly you can figure out that a ton of table grapes would bring a
lot more than $125 at the stupidmarket. Thompson seedless go for at
minimum $1.99/lb on sale at my stupidmarkets... that would bring
nearly $4,000.00/ton.... more than double that if turned into
raisins. People aren't going to buy wine grapes for table grapes no
matter how low the price, they're just not very edible. Folks simply
don't eat wine grapes, which is why you don't see them at your local
produce stand. Wine grapes and table grapes are very different
beasts... wine grapes are not suitable as table grapes and table
grapes are not suitable for wine making.

Sheldon

On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 15:56:37 -0500, Scott > wrote:

>
>>
>> The recipe looks good, but think you have things backwards. Sultanas
>> are raisins, and raisins in California are often made with Thompson
>> Seedless grapes. People don't want their raisins with seeds any more
>> than they want their table grapes with seeds.
>
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sultana_(grape)

Wikipedia is NOT an authoritative source of information.

- Mark

In article . com>,
Sheldon > wrote:

> On Jun 27, 6:34?pm, Dan Abel > wrote:
> > In article .com>,
> >
> > Sheldon > wrote:

> > > Probably not... table grapes bring more money than wine grapes... wine
> > > grapes are generally not very palatable eaten out of hand.
> >
> > Gallo was offering US$125 a ton for Thompson Seedless grapes:
> >
> > http://www.avenuevine.com/movabletyp...es/001700.html
> >
> > Quality wine grapes were running US$1800 to US$4800:
> >
> > http://www.napagrowers.org/prices_06.htm


> certainly you can figure out that a ton of table grapes would bring a
> lot more than $125 at the stupidmarket. Thompson seedless go for at
> minimum $1.99/lb on sale at my stupidmarkets...

Yes.


> People aren't going to buy wine grapes for table grapes no
> matter how low the price, they're just not very edible.

Also true.


> produce stand. Wine grapes and table grapes are very different
> beasts... wine grapes are not suitable as table grapes

Also true.


> and table
> grapes are not suitable for wine making.


They don't make fine quality wine, but do you honestly think that Gallo
buys tons of Thompson Seedless grapes to put in the employee lunchroom?

"Scott" > wrote in message
...
> You know those inexpensive seedless green grapes that you buy at the
> grocery store. What kind of grapes are they and will they make a halfway
> decent wine?

Thompson seedless and it won't make a very good wine, but it can be done.
Any fruit can be fermented.

If you want to make wine, you can buy various grapes, you can buy grape
juice, or you can make a fairly decent casual wine from apple juice. In a
carboy, put five pounds of sugar and six gallons of store bought apple
juice. Add one packet of champagne yeast. Let it ferment for six weeks.
Rack to another carboy, the age it a bit more or start drinking it. Now
what you'd call "fine wine" but very drinkable when chilled. Quality in the
range of the boxed wines.

Dan Abel > wrote:
>Gallo was offering US$125 a ton for Thompson Seedless grapes:
>
>http://www.avenuevine.com/movabletyp...es/001700.html

Says it was a lowball offer, too.

Then goes on to say that it takes $1500/acre in marginal
expense to grow the grapes.

I call shenanigans. Unless they've hired a PhD to massage
the grapes daily.

>Quality wine grapes were running US$1800 to US$4800:
>
>http://www.napagrowers.org/prices_06.htm

More about wine grapes:

http://www.cellarnotes.net/key_grape_varieties.html

--Blair

In article >,
Blair P. Houghton > wrote:

> Dan Abel > wrote:
> >Gallo was offering US$125 a ton for Thompson Seedless grapes:
> >
> >http://www.avenuevine.com/movabletyp...es/001700.html
>
> Says it was a lowball offer, too.
>
> Then goes on to say that it takes $1500/acre in marginal
> expense to grow the grapes.
>
> I call shenanigans. Unless they've hired a PhD to massage
> the grapes daily.

I call shenanigans also. The article was clear that an acre produces
7.5 to 8 tons. That's still a loss, but comparing tons and acres isn't
comparable.


> >Quality wine grapes were running US$1800 to US$4800:
> >
> >http://www.napagrowers.org/prices_06.htm
>
> More about wine grapes:
>
> http://www.cellarnotes.net/key_grape_varieties.html
>
> --Blair

On Jun 27, 10:17?pm, Dan Abel > wrote:
> In article . com>,
>
>
>
>
>
> Sheldon > wrote:
> > On Jun 27, 6:34?pm, Dan Abel > wrote:
> > > In article .com>,
>
> > > Sheldon > wrote:
> > > > Probably not... table grapes bring more money than wine grapes... wine
> > > > grapes are generally not very palatable eaten out of hand.
>
> > > Gallo was offering US$125 a ton for Thompson Seedless grapes:
>
> > >http://www.avenuevine.com/movabletyp...es/001700.html
>
> > > Quality wine grapes were running US$1800 to US$4800:
>
> > >http://www.napagrowers.org/prices_06.htm
> > certainly you can figure out that a ton of table grapes would bring a
> > lot more than $125 at the stupidmarket. Thompson seedless go for at
> > minimum $1.99/lb on sale at my stupidmarkets...
>
> Yes.
>
> > People aren't going to buy wine grapes for table grapes no
> > matter how low the price, they're just not very edible.
>
> Also true.
>
> > produce stand. Wine grapes and table grapes are very different
> > beasts... wine grapes are not suitable as table grapes
>
> Also true.
>
> > and table
> > grapes are not suitable for wine making.
>
> They don't make fine quality wine, but do you honestly think that Gallo
> buys tons of Thompson Seedless grapes to put in the employee lunchroom

Heck, I'd buy table grapes at $125/ton too... if they're decent
quality I'd set up a stand at roadside in my front yard and by the end
of the day I'd have a whole ton sold at $1/lb.

But Gallo is only making an offer of $125. Perhaps some local raisin
growers have an over abundance that is already begining to ferment, so
any price is better than nothing. Gallo makes mostly inexpensive
wines, I'm sure they buy up all the grapes of any kind they can. Yes,
you can make wine from table grapes, I've done it for years (it's
better to use raisins though for the quantities the home wine maker
produces). You can make wine form any produce or combination
thereof. Now that I'm into growing berries I often think I should
start making wine again. A really good table wine can be produced
from bushels of apple drops with a few quarts of over ripe berries.
Grapes don't really make the best wines, grapes make the least
expensive wines... berries produce much superiour wine but it would be
costly. And there are many types of berries, elderberries, goose
berries, mulberries, all make excellent wine. I've made wine from
sour cheries with concord grapes, grew both myself, impressive.

Sheldon

Dan wrote on Wed, 27 Jun 2007 19:17:54 -0700:

??>> On Jun 27, 6:34?pm, Dan Abel > wrote:
??>> People aren't going to buy wine grapes for table grapes
no
??>> matter how low the price, they're just not very edible.

DA> Also true.

??>> produce stand. Wine grapes and table grapes are very
??>> different beasts... wine grapes are not suitable as table
??>> grapes

DA> Also true.

??>> and table
??>> grapes are not suitable for wine making.

Some years ago, Kendall-Jackson had a wine center near San
Francisco (maybe they still do ?) It included a vineyard with
most wine grapes growing. I was surprised how pleasant they were
even if I might prefer seedless grapes for normal eating.

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

E-mail, with obvious alterations:
not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

In article >,
Scott > wrote:

> You know those inexpensive seedless green grapes that you buy at the
> grocery store. What kind of grapes are they and will they make a halfway
> decent wine?

Making wine can be a fun hobby, but it's hard to compete in price with
the commercial stuff. Here in California, we have "two buck chuck",
from the Charles Shaw company. It is mostly sold at Trader Joes. It is
sold in other TJs through the united states, but it's hard to call it
two buck chuck, since it's US$2.99 versus the US$1.99 here.

There was a front page article in this morning's paper:

http://www1.pressdemocrat.com/articl...37/1033/NEWS01

Their chardonnay scored number one, out of 350 entries in the state fair
wine competition. This was a blind tasting, with no price categories.

Hey- you must be in the Santa Rosa area- I was born in Sebastopol! My
sister & I are planning on going down there at the end of July. Going
to the fair for horseracing, tacos & beer! Can you recommend any good
restaurants in the vicinity? TIA

wrote:

>>> Sultanas are raisins, and raisins in California are often made with
>>> Thompson Seedless grapes. People don't want their raisins with
>>> seeds any more than they want their table grapes with seeds.

>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sultana_(grape)

> Wikipedia is NOT an authoritative source of information.

Sultana is anyway a variety of grape, typical of the south mediterranean.
--
Vilco
Think pink, drink rose'