<http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/13/science/13dino.html?
pagewanted=print>

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

April 13, 2007
In Startling Advance, Study Identifies Dinosaur Protein
By JOHN NOBLE WILFORD
In a retrieval once thought unattainable, scientists have recovered
and identified proteins in a bone of a well-preserved Tyrannosaurus
rex that lived and died and was fossilized 68 million years ago.

The scientists say the success, with advanced research techniques,
opens the door for the first time to the exploration of molecular-
level relationships of ancient, extinct animals, instead of just
relying on their skeletal remains.

Dinosaur fossil hunters are planning nine expeditions this summer to
search wide and deep for more specimens as promising candidates for
similar tests. A few large dinosaur bones already in laboratories may
be examined for surviving traces of organic matter.

The earliest previously identified ancient proteins were from mammoths
that died about 300,000 years ago. The oldest confirmed samples of
DNA, a more direct bearer of information of molecular evolution, but
more degradable, have come from Neanderthals that lived 30,000 to
50,000 years ago. The extraction of DNA would be necessary for studies
in dinosaur genetics and for cloning experiments.

Repeated analysis of the T-rex proteins, the researchers said,
uncovered new evidence of a link between dinosaurs and birds, a widely
held but contentious hypothesis. Three of the seven reconstructed
protein sequences were closely related to chickens. The scientists
resisted being drawn into speculation on the likely taste of a T-rex
drumstick.

Two research teams are reporting the findings in today's issue of the
journal Science. The principal investigators discussed the results
with reporters in a teleconference on Wednesday.

Speaking of the doubts she had had going into the work, Mary Higby
Schweitzer of North Carolina State University, leader of one of the
groups, said, "We had always assumed that preservation does not extend
to the cellular level" in ancient fossils.

Dr. Schweitzer described several tests conducted on soft tissues found
deep inside the tyrannosaur's femur, or thighbone, excavated in
eastern Montana. She reported the surprising tissue discovery two
years ago.

Though barely detectable, proteins of collagen 1, the main organic
component of bone, were separated and examined. Fragments, or
peptides, of the protein were pieced together into strands of the
seven sequences. Three of these reacted with antibodies to chicken
collagen. Two others appeared possibly related to living creatures: a
frog and a newt.

The findings, Dr. Schweitzer and her colleagues wrote, "suggested
that, under certain conditions, remnant organic constituents may
persist across geological time."

The second team, headed by John M. Asara of the Harvard Medical School
and Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center in Boston, said its
independent tests had confirmed the presence of proteins in the
tissue.

The researchers subjected samples of the material extracted by Dr.
Schweitzer to an examination by mass spectroscopy, which breaks down
material to its component parts to determine its mass and chemical
makeup. The technology is applied in medical research to analyzing
more precisely the nature of disease-causing agents.

Dr. Asara said the most difficult part of the research had been making
sure that all the "brown gritty contaminants" were separated out of
the specimen. After several steps in the purification process, the
protein fragments were separated from one another, measured for mass
and joined in seven separate strings of amino acid.

Lewis C. Cantley, a Harvard biology professor on the team, said he was
satisfied that the findings were "unlikely due to contamination."

In a press release from Harvard, Dr. Cantley said, "Basically, this is
the breakthrough that says it's possible to get sequences beyond one
million years," which had been thought of as the absolute time barrier
for the preservation of organic matter in animal remains. In the
fossilization process, minerals replace the constituents of bones,
turning them to stone.

Similar tests by Dr. Asara's team also isolated and pieced together
more than 70 protein fragments from a mastodon estimated to be 160,000
to 600,000 years old. The researchers said this provided further
evidence of the staying power of ancient protein.

"We can now start to create relationships between extinct and living
organisms," Dr. Asara said, adding that the T-rex tests supported the
idea "that birds are derived from dinosaurs or are closely related."

Mark A. Norell, a dinosaur expert at the American Museum of Natural
History who was not involved in the research, said the importance of
the findings was in showing that "biomolecules could be stable over
this long period of time." The evidence for a dinosaur connection with
chickens is less significant, he said, contending that "all the data
already confirm the dinosaur-bird relationship."

The huge tyrannosaur thigh was discovered in 2003 by Jack Horner of
Montana State University, a longtime dinosaur paleontologist. It was
excavated at a depth of 60 feet in the Hell Creek Formation, a
dinosaur-rich bed of sedimentary rock underlying much of Montana and
Wyoming.

Dr. Schweitzer, a biologist affiliated with Montana State as well as
North Carolina State, cut into the thick bone and recovered the soft
tissues, including blood vessels and possibly cells that, she said at
the time, "retain some of their original flexibility, elasticity and
resilience." This had never been found in a dinosaur before and
prompted the investigations into the nature of the organic matter.

Mr. Horner suggested that the size of the bone and the depth of its
entombment accounted for the unusual preservation of the tissues.
Thick bones, he said, afford interior matter more protection from
environmental degradation. Another factor was that this particular
dinosaur was buried in a virtually oxygen-free setting very soon after
death. The depth may also have insulated it over time.

Mr. Horner said paleontologists should look for other candidates for
soft tissue retrieval among remains of the largest dinosaurs resting
under tens of feet of rock. Such excavations, he conceded, will not be
easy. But this will be the quest of more than 100 fossil hunters
fanning out this summer in the American West and as far away as the
Gobi Desert of Mongolia.



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On Apr 13, 9:56�am, "-bwg" > wrote:
> <http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/13/science/13dino.html?
> pagewanted=print>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------*-----
>
> April 13, 2007
> In Startling Advance, Study Identifies Dinosaur Protein
> By JOHN NOBLE WILFORD
> In a retrieval once thought unattainable, scientists have recovered
> and identified proteins in a bone of a well-preserved Tyrannosaurus
> rex that lived and died and was fossilized 68 million years ago.


A lot of creatures taste like chicken, especially lizards... many of
the world's people eat lizard. I've eaten iguana in Central
America... had no one told me that the meat in my rice and beans was
lizard I'd swear it was chicken. In fact the chicken, and all birds,
evolved from lizards (reptiles).

Sheldon

On 13 Apr 2007 08:20:54 -0700, "Sheldon" > wrote:

>On Apr 13, 9:56?am, "-bwg" > wrote:
>> <http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/13/science/13dino.html?
>> pagewanted=print>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------?----
>>
>> April 13, 2007
>> In Startling Advance, Study Identifies Dinosaur Protein
>> By JOHN NOBLE WILFORD
>> In a retrieval once thought unattainable, scientists have recovered
>> and identified proteins in a bone of a well-preserved Tyrannosaurus
>> rex that lived and died and was fossilized 68 million years ago.
>
>
>A lot of creatures taste like chicken, especially lizards... many of
>the world's people eat lizard. I've eaten iguana in Central
>America... had no one told me that the meat in my rice and beans was
>lizard I'd swear it was chicken. In fact the chicken, and all birds,
>evolved from lizards (reptiles).
>
>Sheldon
Yeah but if everything tastes like chicken, what does chicken taste
like?

What did one ******* frog say to the other?

Sheldon wrote:

<http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/13/science/13dino.html?
> pagewanted=print>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
>
> April 13, 2007
> In Startling Advance, Study Identifies Dinosaur Protein
>> By JOHN NOBLE WILFORD
> In a retrieval once thought unattainable, scientists have recovered
>> and identified proteins in a bone of a well-preserved Tyrannosaurus
>> rex that lived and died and was fossilized 68 million years ago.


A lot of creatures taste like chicken, especially lizards... >many of
the world's people eat lizard. I've eaten iguana in Central
>America... had no one told me that the meat in my rice and beans was
>lizard I'd swear it was chicken. In fact the chicken, and all birds,
>evolved from lizards (reptiles).


And don't forget that the French, being the chickens that they are, have
apparently evolved from the ancient saurians too...

--
Best
Greg

"-bwg" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> <http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/13/science/13dino.html?
> pagewanted=print>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> April 13, 2007
> In Startling Advance, Study Identifies Dinosaur Protein
> By JOHN NOBLE WILFORD
> In a retrieval once thought unattainable, scientists have recovered
> and identified proteins in a bone of a well-preserved Tyrannosaurus
> rex that lived and died and was fossilized 68 million years ago.
>
> The scientists say the success, with advanced research techniques,
> opens the door for the first time to the exploration of molecular-
> level relationships of ancient, extinct animals, instead of just
> relying on their skeletal remains.
>
> Dinosaur fossil hunters are planning nine expeditions this summer to
> search wide and deep for more specimens as promising candidates for
> similar tests. A few large dinosaur bones already in laboratories may
> be examined for surviving traces of organic matter.
>
> The earliest previously identified ancient proteins were from mammoths
> that died about 300,000 years ago. The oldest confirmed samples of
> DNA, a more direct bearer of information of molecular evolution, but
> more degradable, have come from Neanderthals that lived 30,000 to
> 50,000 years ago. The extraction of DNA would be necessary for studies
> in dinosaur genetics and for cloning experiments.
>
> Repeated analysis of the T-rex proteins, the researchers said,
> uncovered new evidence of a link between dinosaurs and birds, a widely
> held but contentious hypothesis. Three of the seven reconstructed
> protein sequences were closely related to chickens. The scientists
> resisted being drawn into speculation on the likely taste of a T-rex
> drumstick.
>
> Two research teams are reporting the findings in today's issue of the
> journal Science. The principal investigators discussed the results
> with reporters in a teleconference on Wednesday.
>
> Speaking of the doubts she had had going into the work, Mary Higby
> Schweitzer of North Carolina State University, leader of one of the
> groups, said, "We had always assumed that preservation does not extend
> to the cellular level" in ancient fossils.
>
> Dr. Schweitzer described several tests conducted on soft tissues found
> deep inside the tyrannosaur's femur, or thighbone, excavated in
> eastern Montana. She reported the surprising tissue discovery two
> years ago.
>
> Though barely detectable, proteins of collagen 1, the main organic
> component of bone, were separated and examined. Fragments, or
> peptides, of the protein were pieced together into strands of the
> seven sequences. Three of these reacted with antibodies to chicken
> collagen. Two others appeared possibly related to living creatures: a
> frog and a newt.
>
> The findings, Dr. Schweitzer and her colleagues wrote, "suggested
> that, under certain conditions, remnant organic constituents may
> persist across geological time."
>
> The second team, headed by John M. Asara of the Harvard Medical School
> and Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center in Boston, said its
> independent tests had confirmed the presence of proteins in the
> tissue.
>
> The researchers subjected samples of the material extracted by Dr.
> Schweitzer to an examination by mass spectroscopy, which breaks down
> material to its component parts to determine its mass and chemical
> makeup. The technology is applied in medical research to analyzing
> more precisely the nature of disease-causing agents.
>
> Dr. Asara said the most difficult part of the research had been making
> sure that all the "brown gritty contaminants" were separated out of
> the specimen. After several steps in the purification process, the
> protein fragments were separated from one another, measured for mass
> and joined in seven separate strings of amino acid.
>
> Lewis C. Cantley, a Harvard biology professor on the team, said he was
> satisfied that the findings were "unlikely due to contamination."
>
> In a press release from Harvard, Dr. Cantley said, "Basically, this is
> the breakthrough that says it's possible to get sequences beyond one
> million years," which had been thought of as the absolute time barrier
> for the preservation of organic matter in animal remains. In the
> fossilization process, minerals replace the constituents of bones,
> turning them to stone.
>
> Similar tests by Dr. Asara's team also isolated and pieced together
> more than 70 protein fragments from a mastodon estimated to be 160,000
> to 600,000 years old. The researchers said this provided further
> evidence of the staying power of ancient protein.
>
> "We can now start to create relationships between extinct and living
> organisms," Dr. Asara said, adding that the T-rex tests supported the
> idea "that birds are derived from dinosaurs or are closely related."
>
> Mark A. Norell, a dinosaur expert at the American Museum of Natural
> History who was not involved in the research, said the importance of
> the findings was in showing that "biomolecules could be stable over
> this long period of time." The evidence for a dinosaur connection with
> chickens is less significant, he said, contending that "all the data
> already confirm the dinosaur-bird relationship."
>
> The huge tyrannosaur thigh was discovered in 2003 by Jack Horner of
> Montana State University, a longtime dinosaur paleontologist. It was
> excavated at a depth of 60 feet in the Hell Creek Formation, a
> dinosaur-rich bed of sedimentary rock underlying much of Montana and
> Wyoming.
>
> Dr. Schweitzer, a biologist affiliated with Montana State as well as
> North Carolina State, cut into the thick bone and recovered the soft
> tissues, including blood vessels and possibly cells that, she said at
> the time, "retain some of their original flexibility, elasticity and
> resilience." This had never been found in a dinosaur before and
> prompted the investigations into the nature of the organic matter.
>
> Mr. Horner suggested that the size of the bone and the depth of its
> entombment accounted for the unusual preservation of the tissues.
> Thick bones, he said, afford interior matter more protection from
> environmental degradation. Another factor was that this particular
> dinosaur was buried in a virtually oxygen-free setting very soon after
> death. The depth may also have insulated it over time.
>
> Mr. Horner said paleontologists should look for other candidates for
> soft tissue retrieval among remains of the largest dinosaurs resting
> under tens of feet of rock. Such excavations, he conceded, will not be
> easy. But this will be the quest of more than 100 fossil hunters
> fanning out this summer in the American West and as far away as the
> Gobi Desert of Mongolia.
>
>
>
> Home
> World U.S. N.Y. / Region Business Technology Science Health Sports
> Opinion Arts Style Travel Jobs Real Estate Automobiles Back to Top
> Copyright 2007 The New York Times Company
> Privacy Policy Search Corrections RSS First Look Help Contact Us Work
> for Us Site Map
>

Question: Wasn't there a report somewhere that frozen mastadons and wooly
mammoths had been found whole, and were eaten?
-ginny

Virginia Tadrzynski wrote on 13 Apr 2007 in rec.food.cooking

> Question: Wasn't there a report somewhere that frozen mastadons and
> wooly mammoths had been found whole, and were eaten?
> -ginny
>
>

Yes there was a report...and apparently in Siberia still today whole frozen
mastadons are found and eaten. Well found as late as the 1960's and eaten
due to ignorance, poverty and hunger. Like that fish (Isacanth?) caught off
India that has been unchanged for millons of years the odd one still turns
up.

Virginia Tadrzynski wrote:
> "-bwg" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
>> <http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/13/science/13dino.html?
>> pagewanted=print>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> April 13, 2007
>> In Startling Advance, Study Identifies Dinosaur Protein
>> By JOHN NOBLE WILFORD
>> In a retrieval once thought unattainable, scientists have recovered
>> and identified proteins in a bone of a well-preserved Tyrannosaurus
>> rex that lived and died and was fossilized 68 million years ago.
>>
>> The scientists say the success, with advanced research techniques,
>> opens the door for the first time to the exploration of molecular-
>> level relationships of ancient, extinct animals, instead of just
>> relying on their skeletal remains.
>>
>> Dinosaur fossil hunters are planning nine expeditions this summer to
>> search wide and deep for more specimens as promising candidates for
>> similar tests. A few large dinosaur bones already in laboratories may
>> be examined for surviving traces of organic matter.
>>
>> The earliest previously identified ancient proteins were from mammoths
>> that died about 300,000 years ago. The oldest confirmed samples of
>> DNA, a more direct bearer of information of molecular evolution, but
>> more degradable, have come from Neanderthals that lived 30,000 to
>> 50,000 years ago. The extraction of DNA would be necessary for studies
>> in dinosaur genetics and for cloning experiments.
>>
>> Repeated analysis of the T-rex proteins, the researchers said,
>> uncovered new evidence of a link between dinosaurs and birds, a widely
>> held but contentious hypothesis. Three of the seven reconstructed
>> protein sequences were closely related to chickens. The scientists
>> resisted being drawn into speculation on the likely taste of a T-rex
>> drumstick.
>>
>> Two research teams are reporting the findings in today's issue of the
>> journal Science. The principal investigators discussed the results
>> with reporters in a teleconference on Wednesday.
>>
>> Speaking of the doubts she had had going into the work, Mary Higby
>> Schweitzer of North Carolina State University, leader of one of the
>> groups, said, "We had always assumed that preservation does not extend
>> to the cellular level" in ancient fossils.
>>
>> Dr. Schweitzer described several tests conducted on soft tissues found
>> deep inside the tyrannosaur's femur, or thighbone, excavated in
>> eastern Montana. She reported the surprising tissue discovery two
>> years ago.
>>
>> Though barely detectable, proteins of collagen 1, the main organic
>> component of bone, were separated and examined. Fragments, or
>> peptides, of the protein were pieced together into strands of the
>> seven sequences. Three of these reacted with antibodies to chicken
>> collagen. Two others appeared possibly related to living creatures: a
>> frog and a newt.
>>
>> The findings, Dr. Schweitzer and her colleagues wrote, "suggested
>> that, under certain conditions, remnant organic constituents may
>> persist across geological time."
>>
>> The second team, headed by John M. Asara of the Harvard Medical School
>> and Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center in Boston, said its
>> independent tests had confirmed the presence of proteins in the
>> tissue.
>>
>> The researchers subjected samples of the material extracted by Dr.
>> Schweitzer to an examination by mass spectroscopy, which breaks down
>> material to its component parts to determine its mass and chemical
>> makeup. The technology is applied in medical research to analyzing
>> more precisely the nature of disease-causing agents.
>>
>> Dr. Asara said the most difficult part of the research had been making
>> sure that all the "brown gritty contaminants" were separated out of
>> the specimen. After several steps in the purification process, the
>> protein fragments were separated from one another, measured for mass
>> and joined in seven separate strings of amino acid.
>>
>> Lewis C. Cantley, a Harvard biology professor on the team, said he was
>> satisfied that the findings were "unlikely due to contamination."
>>
>> In a press release from Harvard, Dr. Cantley said, "Basically, this is
>> the breakthrough that says it's possible to get sequences beyond one
>> million years," which had been thought of as the absolute time barrier
>> for the preservation of organic matter in animal remains. In the
>> fossilization process, minerals replace the constituents of bones,
>> turning them to stone.
>>
>> Similar tests by Dr. Asara's team also isolated and pieced together
>> more than 70 protein fragments from a mastodon estimated to be 160,000
>> to 600,000 years old. The researchers said this provided further
>> evidence of the staying power of ancient protein.
>>
>> "We can now start to create relationships between extinct and living
>> organisms," Dr. Asara said, adding that the T-rex tests supported the
>> idea "that birds are derived from dinosaurs or are closely related."
>>
>> Mark A. Norell, a dinosaur expert at the American Museum of Natural
>> History who was not involved in the research, said the importance of
>> the findings was in showing that "biomolecules could be stable over
>> this long period of time." The evidence for a dinosaur connection with
>> chickens is less significant, he said, contending that "all the data
>> already confirm the dinosaur-bird relationship."
>>
>> The huge tyrannosaur thigh was discovered in 2003 by Jack Horner of
>> Montana State University, a longtime dinosaur paleontologist. It was
>> excavated at a depth of 60 feet in the Hell Creek Formation, a
>> dinosaur-rich bed of sedimentary rock underlying much of Montana and
>> Wyoming.
>>
>> Dr. Schweitzer, a biologist affiliated with Montana State as well as
>> North Carolina State, cut into the thick bone and recovered the soft
>> tissues, including blood vessels and possibly cells that, she said at
>> the time, "retain some of their original flexibility, elasticity and
>> resilience." This had never been found in a dinosaur before and
>> prompted the investigations into the nature of the organic matter.
>>
>> Mr. Horner suggested that the size of the bone and the depth of its
>> entombment accounted for the unusual preservation of the tissues.
>> Thick bones, he said, afford interior matter more protection from
>> environmental degradation. Another factor was that this particular
>> dinosaur was buried in a virtually oxygen-free setting very soon after
>> death. The depth may also have insulated it over time.
>>
>> Mr. Horner said paleontologists should look for other candidates for
>> soft tissue retrieval among remains of the largest dinosaurs resting
>> under tens of feet of rock. Such excavations, he conceded, will not be
>> easy. But this will be the quest of more than 100 fossil hunters
>> fanning out this summer in the American West and as far away as the
>> Gobi Desert of Mongolia.
>>
>>
>>
>> Home
>> World U.S. N.Y. / Region Business Technology Science Health Sports
>> Opinion Arts Style Travel Jobs Real Estate Automobiles Back to Top
>> Copyright 2007 The New York Times Company
>> Privacy Policy Search Corrections RSS First Look Help Contact Us Work
>> for Us Site Map
>>
>
> Question: Wasn't there a report somewhere that frozen mastadons and wooly
> mammoths had been found whole, and were eaten?
> -ginny
>
>


I remember those, many years ago. And they said it was almost like
they had been flash frozen. Pretty tasty from what I remember. But they
didn't taste like chicken.

Melondy

Virginia Tadrzynski > wrote:

> Question: Wasn't there a report somewhere that frozen mastadons and wooly
> mammoths had been found whole, and were eaten?

I don't think there ever was such a definite report, but here is a
repost of mine of some seven or eight years ago:

It is a known fact that starving inmates of Soviet labour camps did eat
fossilized animals they found in permafrost on occasion. Newspapers of
the time even reported this, without, of course, mentioning that it was
the inmates they were talking about. Some of those animals might well
have been mammoths.

Victor