friend George wrote:
>
> "Genus"?

No.

Demons (satan's sockpuppets) are infinitely less than a subspecies.

May GOD bless you.

Prayerfully in Jesus' ever-lasting love,

Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
http://EmoryCardiology.com

May HIS immortal brethren pray for our dying mortal friends and
neighbors:
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts

In memory of our dearly departed Bob(this one) Pastorio:
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts/Bob

As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the
unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies
(Matthew 5:44-45, 1 Corinthians 13:3, James 2:14-17).
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Love

The Official SMC FAQ List:
http://HeartMDPhD.com/TheTruth/FAQ

"Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> friend George wrote:
>>
>> "Genus"?
>
> No.
>
> Demons (satan's sockpuppets) are infinitely less than a subspecies.
>
> May GOD bless you.
>
> Prayerfully in Jesus' ever-lasting love,
>
> Andrew <><
> --
> Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD

Don't do me any favors. Just the thought of someone believing in some sky
pixie (other than the God Tinkerbelle) makes me PUKE!

I wasn't responding to you, anyway.


--

"The number one reason people turn away from Christ is Christians!"


Pious Paul

"Man of Sin"


Ordained Minister-Universal Life Church
AFJC Photo Archivist
DOD#144,000 (the LAST one in)

"AFJC...We Care"

"Pious Paul" > wrote in message link.net...
>
> "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" > wrote in message oups.com...
>> friend George wrote:
>>>
>>> "Genus"?
>>
>> No.
>>
>> Demons (satan's sockpuppets) are infinitely less than a subspecies.
>>
>> May GOD bless you.
>>
>> Prayerfully in Jesus' ever-lasting love,
>>
>> Andrew <><
>> --
>> Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
>
> Don't do me any favors. Just the thought of someone believing in some sky pixie (other than the God Tinkerbelle) makes me PUKE!
>
> I wasn't responding to you, anyway.
>
>
> --
>
> "The number one reason people turn away from Christ is Christians!"
>
>
> Pious Paul
>
> "Man of Sin"
>
>
> Ordained Minister-Universal Life Church <== by whom!
> AFJC Photo Archivist <== smut folder
> DOD#144,000 (the LAST one in) <== I doubt you'll ever get in!
>
> "AFJC...We Care" <== about me, mtsel, and Ionly

Unbelief and Its Consequences

(Romans 1:18-32 NASB) Unbelief and Its Consequences

18 For ?a?the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all
ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who ?b?suppress the truth
?1?in unrighteousness,

19 because ?a?that which is known about God is evident
?1?within them; for God made it evident to them.

20 For ?a?since the creation of the world His invisible
attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly
seen, ?b?being understood through what has been made, so that they
are without excuse.

21 For even though they knew God, they did not ?1?honor Him as
God or give thanks, but they became ?a?futile in their
speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

22 ?a?Professing to be wise, they became fools,

23 and ?a?exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an
image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed
animals and ?1?crawling creatures.

24 Therefore ?a?God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts
to impurity, so that their bodies would be ?b?dishonored among
them.

25 For they exchanged the truth of God for ?1?a ?a?lie, and
worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, ?b?who
is blessed ?2?forever. Amen.

26 For this reason ?a?God gave them over to ?b?degrading
passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that
which is ?1?unnatural,

27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural
function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one
another, ?a?men with men committing ?1?indecent acts and receiving
in ?2?their own persons the due penalty of their error.

28 And just as they did not see fit ?1?to acknowledge God any
longer, ?a?God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those
things which are not proper,

29 being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed,
evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are
?a?gossips,

30 slanderers, ?1??a?haters of God, insolent, arrogant,
boastful, inventors of evil, ?b?disobedient to parents,

31 without understanding, untrustworthy, ?a?unloving,
unmerciful;

32 and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who
practice such things are worthy of ?a?death, they not only do the
same, but also ?b?give hearty approval to those who practice them.

[1]

1:20

1:20 invisible attributes. This refers specifically to the two mentioned
in this verse. by the things that are made. The creation delivers a
clear, unmistakable message about God's person (cf. Pss. 19:1-8; 94:9;
Acts 14:15-17; 17:23-28). His eternal power. The Creator, who made all
that we see around us and constantly sustains it, must be a being of
awesome power. Godhead. That is, His divine nature, particularly His
faithfulness (Gen. 8:21, 22), kindness, and graciousness (Acts 14:17).
they are without excuse. God holds all men responsible for their refusal
to acknowledge what He has shown them of Himself in His creation. Even
those who have never had an opportunity to hear the gospel have received
a clear witness about the existence and character of God-and have
suppressed it. If a person will respond to the revelation he has, even
if it is solely natural revelation, God will provide some means for that
person to hear the gospel (cf. Acts 8:26-39; 10:1-48; 17:27).[2]

1:21-1:23

Every man knows there's a God, but men choose to suppress the
truth and deny God exists because they don't want to give glory
to Him as God. You see, if there is a God, then I am required to
submit to Him. But my flesh doesn't want to do that, so I'll
suppress the truth I see all around me. I'll say God doesn't
exist-even though the heavens and stars scream at me, "Yes He
does!"

We can fall into this same error as believers. Knowing God, we can fail
to glorify Him as God. How? By insisting on our own way, by saying,
"God, I believe in You, and now I'm telling You what I want You to do.
You better solve this situation, take care of this problem, grant this
request, or heal this sickness. I'm naming it. I'm claiming it."

He's God. We're not. He knows things we can't know and sees things we
can't see. Therefore, for me to rub the lamp of faith and expect God to
become my genie is, in a sense, blasphemous. Father knows best.
Therefore, my part is to talk things over with Him, cast my cares upon
Him, and have faith that He will do what's right-even though I might not
initially agree or understand.[3]

There is no such thing as man moving upward. These verses contradict the
hypothesis of evolution. Man is not improving physically, morally,
intellectually, or spiritually. The pull is downward. Of course this
contradicts all the anthologies of religion that start with man in a
very primitive condition as a caveman with very little intellectual
qualities and move him up intellectually and begin moving him toward
God. This is absolute error. Man is moving away from God, and right now
the world is probably farther from God than at any time in its history.
The fact of the matter is that every primitive tribe has a tradition
that way back in the beginning their ancestors knew God. Dr. Vincent in
Word Studies in the New Testament says, "I think it may be proved from
facts that any given people, down to the lowest savages, has at any
period of its life known far more than it has done: known quite enough
to have enabled it to have got on comfortably, thriven and developed, if
it had only done what no man does, all that it knew it ought to do and
could do." No people have ever lived up to the light that they have had.
Although they had a knowledge of God, they moved away from Him.

"They glorified him not as God." They did not give Him His rightful
place, and man became self-sufficient. In our day man has made the
announcement that God is dead. In the beginning the human family did not
suggest that God was dead, they simply turned their backs upon Him and
made man their god.

"Neither were thankful." Ingratitude is one of the worst sins there is.
You recall that the Lord Jesus healed ten lepers, but only one returned
to thank Him. Only ten percent were thankful, and I believe it is less
than that today.

"Became vain in their imaginations"-they even concocted a theory of
evolution.

"Their foolish heart was darkened." They moved into the darkness of
paganism. You see living proof of this as you walk down the streets of
Cairo in Egypt or of Istanbul in Turkey. In fact, all you have to do is
walk down the streets of Los Angeles to know that man's foolish heart is
darkened.

"Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools." The wisdom of man
is foolishness with God. Man searches for truth through logical
reasoning but arrives at a philosophy that is foolish in God's sight.[4]

1:19-1:27

The ungodliness of mankind 1:19-27

1:19-20 These verses begin a discussion of "natural revelation." Natural
revelation describes what everyone knows about God because of what God
has revealed concerning Himself in nature. What He has revealed about
Himself in Scripture is "special revelation." The creation bears
testimony to its Maker, and every human being "hears" this witness (cf.
Ps. 19).43

"Napoleon, on a warship in the Mediterranean on a star-lit night, passed
a group of his officers who were mocking at the idea of a God. He
stopped, and sweeping his hand toward the stars, said, 'Gentlemen, you
must get rid of those first!'"44

Four things characterize this revelation. First, it is a clear
testimony; everyone is aware of it ("it is evident [plain]"). Second,
everyone can understand it. We can draw conclusions about the Creator
from His creation.45 Third, it has gone out since the creation of the
world in every generation. Fourth, it is a limited revelation in that it
does not reveal everything about God (e.g., His love and grace) but only
some things (i.e., His power and deity). Natural revelation makes man
responsible to respond to his Creator in worship and submission. However
it does not give sufficient information for him to experience salvation.
That is why everyone needs to hear the gospel.

"Utter uncompromising, abandonment of hope in man is the first
preliminary to understanding or preaching the gospel."46

1:20 Ever since the creation of the world, two invisible characteristics
of God have been on display for all to see: His eternal power and His
divinity or Godhead. The word Paul uses here means divinity or godhood.
It suggests the character of God rather than His essential being, His
glorious attributes rather than His inherent deity. His deity is
assumed.

The argument here is clear: Creation demands a Creator. Design demands a
Designer. By looking up at the sun, moon, and stars, anyone can know
there is a God.

The answer to the question "What about the heathen?" is this: they are
without excuse. God has revealed Himself to them in creation, but they
have not responded to this revelation. So people are not condemned for
rejecting a Savior they have never heard of, but for being unfaithful to
what they could know about God. [5]

1:21-23 Honoring God as God and giving Him thanks (v. 21) are our
primary duties to God in view of who He is. Mythology and idolatry
have resulted from man's need to identify some power greater than
himself and his refusal to acknowledge God as that power. Men and
women have elevated themselves to God's position (cf. Dan. 2:38;
3:1; 5:23). In our day, humanism has replaced the worship of
individual human leaders in most western countries. Man has
descended to the worship of animals as well (cf. Ps. 106:20). This
is perhaps more characteristic of third world countries.

"This tragic process of human 'god-making' continues apace in our own
day, and Paul's words have as much relevance for people who have made
money or sex or fame their gods as for those who carved idols out of
wood and stone."47

Note the allusions to the creation story in the threefold division of
the animal kingdom in verse 23.

1:24-25 The false religions that man has devised and to which Paul just
referred constitute some of God's judgment on mankind for turning from
Him. False religion is not in any sense good for mankind. It is a
judgment from God, and it tends to keep people so distracted that they
rarely deal with the true God.

"God's wrath mentioned in Romans 1 is not an active outpouring of divine
displeasure but the removal of restraint that allows sinners to reap the
just fruits of their rebellion."48

It is active in another sense, however. God gave man over (v. 24; cf.
vv. 26, 28) by turning him over to the punishment his crime earned, as a
judge does a prisoner. The third characteristic of man in rebellion
against God that Paul identified after ignorance (v. 21) and idolatry
(v. 23) is impurity (v. 24). Here Paul evidently had natural forms of
moral uncleanness in view such as adultery and harlotry. He went on in
verses 26-27 to describe even worse immorality, namely unnatural acts
such as homosexuality.49

Mankind exchanged the truth of God (v. 25; cf. v. 18) for "the lie"
(literally). The lie in view is the contention that we should venerate
someone or something in place of the true God (cf. Gen. 3:1-5; Matt.
4:3-10). Paul's concluding doxology underlined this folly.

1:26-27 Because mankind "exchanged" the truth for the lie God allowed
him to degrade himself through his passions. The result was that he
"exchanged" natural human functions for what is unnatural. In the Greek
text the words translated "women" (thelus; v. 26) and "men" (arsen, v.
27) mean "females" and "males." Ironically the homosexuality described
in these verses does not characterize females and males of other animal
species, only human beings. Homosexuality is a perversion because it
uses sex for a purpose contrary to those for which God created and
intended it (Gen. 1:28).

"This need not demand the conclusion that every homosexual follows the
practice in deliberate rebellion against God's prescribed order. What is
true historically and theologically is in measure true, however,
experientially."50

AIDS, for example, is probably the consequence of man's rebellion
against God rather than a special judgment from God. The "due penalty"
is what man experiences as a result of God giving him over and letting
him indulge his sinful desires (cf. 6:23).51

"Sin comes from the mind, which perverts the judgment. The effect of
retribution is to abandon the mind to that depravity."52

"A contextual and exegetical examination of Romans 1:26-27 reveals that
attempts by some contemporary writers to do away with Paul's
prohibitions against present-day same-sex relations are false Paul did
not impose Jewish customs and rules on his readers; instead he addressed
same-sex relations from the trans-cultural perspective of God's created
order. God's punishment for sin is rooted in a sinful reversal of the
created order. Nor was homosexuality simply a sin practiced by idolaters
in Paul's day; it was a distorting consequence of the fall of the human
race in the Garden of Eden. Neither did Paul describe homosexual acts by
heterosexuals. Instead he wrote that homosexual activity was an exchange
of the created order (heterosexuality) for a talionic perversion
(homosexuality), which is never presented in Scripture as an acceptable
norm for sexuality. Also Hellenistic pederasty does not fully account
for the terms and logic of Romans 1:26-27 which refers to adult-adult
mutuality. Therefore it is clear that in Romans 1:26-27 Paul condemned
homosexuality as a perversion of God's design for human sexual
relations."53 [6]

The God of the Bible, in contrast to some pagan religions, is in
sovereign control of everything, including evil, which he uses to
accomplish his good purposes (cf. Job 1-3).

Third, the Bible sometimes speaks of God "hardening" people's hearts
(see Rom. 9:17-18) or even sending them strong delusions (2 Thess.
2:11). However, on closer examination, we discover that God did this to
those who had hardened their own hearts (Exod. 8:15) and who "did not
believe the truth" (2 Thess. 2:12). God uses even their depravity to
accomplish his purposes. God permits lying as a judgment on evil.

God, for his own purposes of justice, allowed Ahab to be deceived by
evil spirits to accomplish his sovereign and good will.

John 7:3-10. Bible critics have sometimes appealed to this text to show
that Jesus lied. This is a serious charge, since it would not only be a
divinely approved lie, but one told by God himself in the person of his
Son. Jesus' unbelieving brothers challenged him to go up to Jerusalem
and show himself openly to be the Messiah (7:3-4). Jesus refused,
saying, "I am not yet going up to this feast, because for me the right
time has not yet come" (vs. 8). But later Jesus did go (vs. 10). Jesus
did not go openly, as the brothers had suggested, nor at the immediate
time they suggested. Further, John 7:8 relates that Jesus said he was
not yet going. "He remained in Galilee" before he went up. [7]

Man has a revelation from God, but he flagrantly flaunts it by defying
the judgment of God against such sins. He continues to practice them and
applauds and approves those who do the same. [8]

---------------------------------------------------------------------


a Rom 5:9; Eph 5:6; Col 3:6 b 2 Thess 2:6f 1 Or by a Acts 14:17; 17:24ff
1 Or among a Mark 10:6 b Job 12:7-9; Ps 19:1-6; Jer 5:21f 1 Lit glorify
a 2 Kin 17:15; Jer 2:5; Eph 4:17f a Jer 10:14; 1 Cor 1:20 a Deut
4:16-18; Ps 106:20; Jer 2:11; Acts 17:29 1 Or reptiles a Rom 1:26, 28;
Eph 4:19 b Eph 2:3 1 Lit the lie a Is 44:20; Jer 10:14; 13:25; 16:19 b
Rom 9:5; 2 Cor 11:31 2 Lit unto the ages a Rom 1:24 b 1 Thess 4:5 1 Lit
against nature a Lev 18:22; 20:13; 1 Cor 6:9 1 Lit the shameless deed 2
Lit themselves 1 Lit to have God in knowledge a Rom 1:24 a 2 Cor 12:20 1
Or hateful to God a Ps 5:5 b 2 Tim 3:2 a 2 Tim 3:3 a Rom 6:21 b Luke
11:48; Acts 8:1; 22:20

[1]New American Standard Bible : 1995 update. 1995 (Ro 1:18). LaHabra,
CA: The Lockman Foundation.

[2]MacArthur, J. J. (1997, c1997). The MacArthur Study Bible (electronic
ed.) (Ro 1:20). Nashville: Word Pub.

[3]Courson, J. (2003). Jon Courson's Application Commentary (870).
Nashville, TN: Thomas Nelson.

[4]McGee, J. V. (1997, c1981). Thru the Bible commentary. Based on the
Thru the Bible radio program. (electronic ed.) (4:653). Nashville:
Thomas Nelson. 43 43. See Bruce A. Baker, "Romans 1:18-21 and
Presuppositional Apologetics," Bibliotheca Sacra 155:619 (July-September
1998):280-98. 44 44. Newell, p. 29. 45 45. "His invisible attributes . .
.. have been clearly seen" is an oxymoron. 46 46. Newell, p. 27.

[5]MacDonald, W., & Farstad, A. (1997, c1995). Believer's Bible
Commentary : Old and New Testaments (Ro 1:20). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.

47 47. Moo, p. 110. For a relevant exposition of verses 21-22, see
Francis A. Schaeffer, Death in the City, pp. 79-123. 48 48. Mounce, p.
80. 49 49. Natural here means in keeping with how God has designed
people, and unnatural refers to behavior that is contrary to how God has
made us. 50 50. Harrison, p. 25. 51 51. See P. Michael Ukleja,
"Homosexuality in the New Testament," Bibliotheca Sacra 140:560
(October-December 1983):350-58. 52 52. Henri Maurier, The Other
Covenant, p. 185. 53 53. David E. Malick, "The Condemnation of
Homosexuality in Romans 1:26-27, " Bibliotheca Sacra 150:599
(July-September 1993):340. Pederasty is a form of sodomy between males,
especially as practiced by a man with a boy. See also Sherwood A. Cole,
"Biology, Homosexuality, and Moral Culpability," Bibliotheca Sacra
154:615 (July-September 1997):355-66.

[6]Tom Constable. (2003; 2003). Tom Constable's Expository Notes on the
Bible (Ro 1:18). Galaxie Software.

[7]Geisler, N. L. (1999). Baker encyclopedia of Christian apologetics.
Baker reference library (434). Grand Rapids, Mich.: Baker Books.

[8]McGee, J. V. (1997, c1981). Thru the Bible commentary. Based on the
Thru the Bible radio program. (electronic ed.) (4:655). Nashville:
Thomas Nelson.

"lambert.uk" > wrote in message news:lq2dnVrx4OVF-


>
> 22 ?a?Professing to be wise, they became fools,
>

Yes, the whole shrieking mess is filled with question marks, which is more
polite than just coming out and saying it is a bunch of low class bullshit.

Of course, if there really was a god, he would have utter disdain for
groveling brainless "worshippers" and will make them the slaves in the
afterlife of those who were intelligent enough to question and be atheists.

In article >, lambertbj231
@yahoo.uk.com says...
> Unbelief and Its Consequences
>
none of which you can prove, except for quoting some medieval pamphlet
collection written by sadists.

FR
--
Earthquack reminds me of a drowning man, alone at sea. Clutching at
pieces of driftwood and declaring that they are "Proof of Boat"

"Kurt Gavin" > wrote in message ink.net...
>
> "lambert.uk" > wrote in message news:lq2dnVrx4OVF-
>
>
>>
>> 22 ?a?Professing to be wise, they ?unbelievers? became fools,
>>
>
> Yes, the whole shrieking mess is filled with question marks, which is more polite than just coming out and saying it is a bunch of
> low class bullshit.
>
> Of course, if there really was a god, he would have utter disdain for groveling brainless "worshippers" and will make them the
> slaves in the afterlife of those who were intelligent enough to question and be atheists. <=== hehehaha (-: ;-)
>


The Excellence of Love


(1 Corinthians 13 NASB)

The Excellence of Love

1 If I speak with the ?a?tongues of men and of ?b?angels, but do not have
love, I have become a noisy gong or a ?c?clanging cymbal.

2 If I have the gift of ?a?prophecy, and know all ?b?mysteries and all
?c?knowledge; and if I have ?d?all faith, so as to ?e?remove mountains, but do
not have love, I am nothing.

3 And if I ?a?give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I ?b?surrender
my body ?1?to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing.

4 Love ?a?is patient, love is kind and ?b?is not jealous; love does not brag and
is not ?c?arrogant,

5 does not act unbecomingly; it ?a?does not seek its own, is not provoked,
?b?does not take into account a wrong suffered,

6 ?a?does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but ?b?rejoices with the truth;

7 ?1??a?bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

8 Love never fails; but if there are gifts of ?1??a?prophecy, they will be done
away; if there are ?b?tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be
done away.

9 For we ?a?know in part and we prophesy in part;

10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away.

11 When I was a child, I used to speak like a child, think like a child, reason
like a child; when I ?1?became a man, I did away with childish things.

12 For now we ?a?see in a mirror ?1?dimly, but then ?b?face to face; now I
know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also ?c?have been fully known.

13 But now faith, hope, love, abide these three; but the ?1?greatest of these is
?a?love.

[1]


I love my wife. I love my kids. I love Big Macs. I love walks in the park on summer
evenings. We use the word "love" so freely that we diminish its meaning. The Greeks
circumvented this problem by using four words for love..

.. Storgi means affection. Storgi is the kind of love one feels toward his cat or dog.

.. Eros refers to sexual, physical love.

.. Phileo, from which we get the name "Philadelphia," speaks of brotherly love.
Phileo says, "If you're nice to me, I'll be nice to you."

It wasn't until the New Testament apostles introduced the concept of unconditional
love that the Greeks added agape to their vocabulary. Agape is a love that gives
simply for the sake of giving, never expecting anything in return. People who don't
know the Lord can experience all of the other kinds of love. But for them, agape is
impossible because it is found only in God. Agape is the love of which Paul speaks
when he says, "If I don't have love, I'm just making noise even if I speak in tongues
fluently."

In the year 1647, during England's Civil War, a deserter in Cromwell's army was
captured and brought before him.

"When the curfew bell sounds tonight, you shall be executed," said the general.

But that night, the curfew bell was not heard. Upon investigation, it was discovered
that, receiving news of her fianci's sentence, his betrothed made her way quickly to
the camp and hid in the bell tower. As curfew neared, she positioned herself within
the bell in such a way that when the rope was pulled, the clapper hit her body rather
than the inside of the bell. Seeing the bruised and battered lady standing before him,
Cromwell was so deeply touched by her love that the soldier's life was spared.

Jesus Christ climbed not a bell tower, but the hill of Calvary in order that you and I
would be spared the execution we so rightfully deserve. Whether the word is charity,
love, or agape, the love Jesus showed us, the love we are to extend to one another is

spelled one way: S-a-c-r-i-f-i-c-e.

[2]


A Topical Study of 1 Corinthians 13:4

The description of agape seen in 1 Corinthians 13 is glorious indeed. But, to the
believer, this passage can be very frustrating as well. You see, in 1 Corinthians 13,
we read that love is longsuffering and kind, that it neither envies nor seeks its own,
that it bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, and endures all things, that
it never fails.

"What a beautiful description of love," we say with one breath, but, "too bad I'm so
far from it," with the next.

Today, however, I want you to look at the chapter before us from a slightly different
perspective. The apostle John tells us that God is love-literally that God is agape (1
John 4:16). Paul tells us that this Fountainhead of agape, the Essence of love, God
Himself demonstrated His love for us in that while we were yet sinners He died in
place of us (Romans 5:8). Seen in this light, 1 Corinthians 13 becomes not only an
exhortation to love others, but, more importantly, a description of God's love for
us..

Love suffereth long. 1 Corinthians 13:4 (a)

God suffers long. He suffers long toward me. Think of Jesus on the Cross. As men
cursed Him and spit on Him, what did He do? He suffered long. He said, "Father
forgive them. They don't know what they're doing" (see Luke 23:34). My tendency
is to think I've blown it so badly that surely God has given up on me. But the Cross
shows me otherwise.

..and is kind. 1 Corinthians 13:4 (b)

If you think God is vengeful, angry, and mean-spirited, you have the wrong image of
God. So kind, so gentle, so big-hearted is He that He does more for us than we
could ever ask or even think (Ephesians 3:20).

The psalmist tells us that the Lord will withhold no good thing from those that love
Him (Psalm 84:11). Therefore, if I'm not getting something for which I'm asking, it's
because what I'm asking for would not be good for me. If the timing isn't right, if the
request is wrong, He'll withhold it not because He's mean, but because He is love.

..love envieth not. 1 Corinthians 13:4 (c)

Bound together in the Trinity, Father, Son, and Spirit are completely self-sufficient
and totally happy. God says, "I want to walk with you; I'll never give up on you; I
avail Myself to you-but I'm not dependent on you." God's love is mature.

..love vaunteth not itself. 1 Corinthians 13:4 (d)

God doesn't have to hype Himself. What He says, He does. Who He claims to be,
He really is.

..is not puffed up. 1 Corinthians 13:4 (e)

God doesn't say, "I'm God and you're dust." No, He came to dwell among us, to
walk with us, to die for us. And He's the same today. He's always available to me,
always ready to hear my prayers, always ready to share with me truths from His
Word.

When I read 1 Corinthians 13 in this light, what does it do?

The apostle John tells us exactly what it does when he literally says, "We love
because He first loved us" (see 1 John 4:19). The person who understands that 1
Corinthians 13 is most fundamentally talking about the nature and character of God's
love toward him personally will be one who inevitably overflows with love to the
people around him.

We looked at only one verse in Paul's perfectly placed pomegranate of love. As you
make your way through the rest of the chapter, you will see God's love for you in
every verse. Marvel at it. Bask in it. Then let it overflow from your life to everyone
around you.

[3]



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

a 1 Cor 12:10
b 2 Cor 12:4; Rev 14:2
c Ps 150:5
a Matt 7:22; Acts 13:1; 1 Cor 11:4; 13:8; 14:1, 39
b 1 Cor 14:2; 15:51
c Rom 15:14
d 1 Cor 12:9
e Matt 17:20; 21:21; Mark 11:23
a Matt 6:2
b Dan 3:28
1 Early mss read that I may boast
a Prov 10:12; 17:9; 1 Thess 5:14; 1 Pet 4:8
b Acts 7:9
c 1 Cor 4:6
a 1 Cor 10:24; Phil 2:21
b 2 Cor 5:19
a 2 Thess 2:12
b 2 John 4; 3 John 3f
1 Or covers
a 1 Cor 9:12
1 Lit prophecies
a 1 Cor 13:2
b 1 Cor 13:1
a 1 Cor 8:2; 13:12
1 Lit have become...have done away with
a 2 Cor 5:7; Phil 3:12; James 1:23
1 Lit in a riddle
b Gen 32:30; Num 12:8; 1 John 3:2
c 1 Cor 8:3
1 Lit greater
a Gal 5:6

[1]New American Standard Bible : 1995 update. 1995 (1 Co 13:1). LaHabra, CA:
The Lockman Foundation.

[2]Courson, J. (2003). Jon Courson's Application Commentary (1074). Nashville,
TN: Thomas Nelson.

[3]Courson, J. (2003). Jon Courson's Application Commentary (1078). Nashville,
TN: Thomas Nelson.



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"lambert.uk" > blew me away with
:

>
> "Pious Paul" > wrote in message
> link.net...
>>
>> "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" > wrote in message
>> oups.com...
>>> friend George wrote:
>>>>
>>>> "Genus"?
>>>
>>> No.
>>>
>>> Demons (satan's sockpuppets) are infinitely less than a subspecies.
>>>
>>> May GOD bless you.
>>>
>>> Prayerfully in Jesus' ever-lasting love,
>>>
>>> Andrew <><
>>> --
>>> Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
>>
>> Don't do me any favors. Just the thought of someone believing in some
>> sky pixie (other than the God Tinkerbelle) makes me PUKE!
>>
>> I wasn't responding to you, anyway.
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> "The number one reason people turn away from Christ is Christians!"
>>
>>
>> Pious Paul
>>
>> "Man of Sin"
>>
>>
>> Ordained Minister-Universal Life Church <== by whom!
>> AFJC Photo Archivist <== smut folder
>> DOD#144,000 (the LAST one in) <== I doubt you'll ever
>> get in!
>>
>> "AFJC...We Care" <== about me,
>> mtsel, and Ionly
>
> Unbelief and Its Consequences

Many lines of cut & paste drivel snipped...

There won't be any consequences. Your god is as inconsequential as Zeus
or Odin (to name but two).

--
Phÿltêr

Alt.Atheism #1938

Plonked by Fred Stone 03/17/2006

Denizen of Darkness #44

'72 Fender Telecaster Thinline...

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com

"Phÿltêr" > wrote in message .. .
>>> "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" > wrote in message
>>> oups.com...
>>>> friend George wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> "Genus"?
>>>>
>>>> No.
>>>>
>>>> Demons (satan's sockpuppets) are infinitely less than a subspecies.
>>>>
>>>> May GOD bless you.
>>>>
>>>> Prayerfully in Jesus' ever-lasting love,
>>>>
>>>> Andrew <><
>>>> --
>>>> Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
>>>
>>> Don't do me any favors. Just the thought of someone believing in some
>>> sky pixie (other than the God Tinkerbelle) makes me PUKE!
>>>
>>> I wasn't responding to you, anyway.
>>>
>>>
>>> Ordained Minister-Universal Life Church <== by whom!
>>> AFJC Photo Archivist <== smut folder
>>> DOD#144,000 (the LAST one in) <== I doubt you'll ever
>>> get in!
>>>
>>> "AFJC...We Care" <== about me,
>>> mtsel, and Ionly
>>
>> Unbelief and Its Consequences
>
> Many lines of cut & paste drivel snipped...
>
> There won't be any consequences. Your god is as inconsequential as Zeus
> or Odin (to name but two).
>

Phÿltêr - (PHAP) aka "She's So Fat ..." I see U got outta jail for that female
impersonation in the park a week ago, huh. (-:

UR still looking fer meaning urine life?

The Search for Meaning

One might well ask what those pursuits are that bridge the existential and
the rigorously intellectual? At the center of life lie four questions of origin,
meaning, morality, and destiny. How did I come to be? What brings life
meaning? How do I determine right from wrong? What happens to a
person when he or she dies? These are the questions that dig deep into
our thinking, the answers to which we must find if life is to be defined
correctly.

But there is a caution. First and foremost, the answer to each of these
four
questions must be established as true by its correspondence to reality.
Further, all the answers when put together must cohere without
contradiction. For example, the naturalist tries to explain our origin by
saying that life evolved purely by accident and that we are here due to the
cumulative effect of time plus matter plus chance. If that is true, there is no
way to establish any point of reference for either meaning or morality. In
other words, in a naturalistic framework, any constructed meaning is as
equally valid as any other espoused meaning. The words of G. K.
Chesterton ring true: The tragedy of disbelieving in God, he said, is not
that a person ends up believing in nothing. It is much worse. He may end
up believing in anything. There is no way within naturalism to arrive at an
objective moral law or an ontic referent for meaning. Anything goes!
Therefore, it does not suffice to offer just a view on origins. The
entailments must be justified as well.

Another example is pantheism. If all is one and all is God, how can
pantheism explain either origin or morality? And what about Buddha, who
said that every birth is a rebirth and a payment for the previous birth?
Was
there ever a first birth? And if so, what was it paying for? It is not
sufficient
to explain merely origin or destiny. The questions of meaning and morality
must also have equally coherent answers because they stand in
interdependence to each other.

For me personally, the only one whose answers correspond to reality and
cohere in their sum and substance is Jesus Christ. His gospel tells me that
I
am a moral being made for his purpose. My meaning is found in knowing
and loving him. My moral choices are based on his character. My destiny
is to live in eternity with him. In this chapter, I will address only one of
these questions-what meaning means in the Christian context. In that
meaning I find both a rational and an existential defense of Jesus' unique
claims.

The search for meaning is as old as humanity. Even those who have
dabbled lightly in the vast corpus of Greek mythology know the story of
Sisyphus. Poor Sisyphus suffered the wrath of the gods when he revealed
to mere mortals secrets that were known only within the Greek pantheon.
He was sentenced to roll a massive stone to the top of a hill, watch it roll
down again, and then repeat the process endlessly. His was a life
consigned to futility.

Many intriguing suggestions have been made by philosophers in their
attempts to rescue Sisyphus from this futility. "If only Sisyphus could have
changed the way he viewed his task, so that he enjoyed rolling the stone,"
opined one. "Could he not have rolled up a different stone each time, so
that someone else could have built a monument with it?" "Could he not
have found some distraction that would take away the monotony?" It
does
not take a genius to grasp the reason behind the futility that holds
Sisyphus
in its grasp.

As times have changed and possibilities abound, one would think we
should have come a long way from Sisyphus's malady. Instead, we deal
with the same problem, only now it is the busyness of life. No amount of
distraction has cured boredom. No variety changes the question of
ultimate futility.

Not long ago, Life published a book on how individuals cope with this
quest for meaning. The publication is a fascinating cross section of words
and pictures-from philosophers to drug addicts, from painters to
plumbers. José Martinez, a taxi driver in New York, provided this
gripping sound bite of despair:

We're here to die, just live and die. I live driving a cab. I do some fishing,
take my girl out, pay taxes, do a little reading, then get ready to drop
dead. Life is a big fake. . . . You're rich or you're poor. You're here,
you're gone. You're like the wind. After you're gone, other people will
come. It's too late to make it better. Everyone's fed up, can't believe in
nothing no more. People have no pride. People have no fear. . . . People
only care about one thing and that's money. We're gonna destroy
ourselves, nothing we can do about it. The only cure for the world's
illness
is nuclear war-wipe everything out and start over. We've become like a
cornered animal, fighting for survival. Life is nothing.?1?

There is a disturbing candor behind his admission. But we are quick to
rationalize his predicament, fearful of seeing ourselves reflected in his
portrait. "Of course a man struggling to make a living and stressed by an
unrewarding job is bound to seem hopeless. If he were given limitless
freedom and a limitless bank account, his meaninglessness would vanish."
The errant assumption that meaning can be found by merely changing
one's circumstances is endemic to our human condition.

Credited to the pen of King Solomon, no piece of ancient literature is
more forthright and more penetrating in its treatment of this struggle than
the Book of Ecclesiastes. The opening lines claim, "Meaningless,
meaningless! All is meaningless!" Then Solomon takes a regressive
journey, cataloguing his path to that cynicism-wisdom, pleasure, work,
material gain, and much else. He came away empty.

I denied myself nothing my eyes desired;

I refused my heart no pleasure.

My heart took delight in all my work,

and this was the reward for all my labor.

Yet when I surveyed all that my hands had done

and what I had toiled to achieve,

everything was meaningless, a chasing after the wind;

nothing was gained under the sun.

2:10-11

This was no Sisyphus or taxi driver speaking. At Solomon's command,
others rolled stones up steep hills so that he could build his stables,
palaces, and temples. He was a man who boasted unparalleled intellect
and imagination that made him the envy of many and who presided over
the most pompous court of his time. In the end, he groaned that "under
the
sun" there was a monotony, a circularity, and a fatality to all human
endeavor.

Solomon's assessment presents a startling even fearsome reality: The
worst kind of meaninglessness does not come from being weary of pain
or
poverty but from being weary of pleasure amid plenty. Solomon is not the
only one, surrounded by wealth and success, who talked of such
disappointment at the end of the road. The refrain is repeated constantly
yet often seems to fall on deaf ears. A modern-day writer, Jack Higgins,
was asked at the pinnacle of his success what he now knows that he
wished he had known as a younger man: "I wish I had known that when
you get to the top, there is nothing there."?2?

Many scientists have recently entered the fray. Some have castigated
philosophers and theologians for raising the problem in the first place and
creating a need that ought never to have been manufactured. Their
solution
staggers the imagination. Here, for example, is the suggestion of Harvard
paleontologist Stephen Jay Gould.

The human species has inhabited this planet for only 250,000 years or
so-roughly .0015 percent of the history of life, the last inch of the
cosmic
mile. The world fared perfectly well without us for all but the last moment
of earthly time-and this fact makes our appearance look more like an
accidental afterthought than the culmination of a prefigured plan.

Moreover, and more important, the pathways that have led to our
evolution are quirky, improbable, unrepeatable and utterly unpredictable.
Human evolution is not random; it makes sense and can be explained
after
the fact. But wind back life's tape to the dawn of time and let it play
again-and you will never get humans a second time. We are here
because one odd group of fishes had a peculiar fin anatomy that could
transform into legs for terrestrial creatures; because comets struck the
earth and wiped out dinosaurs, thereby giving mammals a chance not
otherwise available . . . because the earth never froze entirely during an
ice
age; because a small and tenuous species, arising in Africa a quarter of a
million years ago, has managed so far by hook and by crook. We may
yearn for a higher answer-but none exists. . . . We cannot read the
meaning of life passively in the facts of nature. We must construct these
answers ourselves-from our own wisdom and ethical sense. There is no
other way.?3?

The naturalist's contribution is to assert that the search for higher meaning
is itself a pointless one because it creates the need for objective
metaphysical certainty, when in truth the empirical world does not offer us
such assurances. If nature and matter are all that exist, higher meaning
simply cannot be found and should not be sought.

To his credit, Gould correctly recognizes that the "what" of life and the
"why" of life are inextricably connected. In a philosophy that defines life
apart from God there is a plethora of options, each in one way or another
forfeiting the right to judge anyone else's choice. But as we move from
infancy to maturity, the "whys" of life proliferate, and we seek coherent
answers that rise above mere speculation. By contrast, when God is in
the
picture, life gains an intrinsically sacred nature-based on who he is and
why he has made us in the first place.

Stephen Hawking reinforces this impact at the end of his book, A Brief
History of Time. After discussing the "what" of life, he says, "If we knew
the why, then we will have the mind of God."?4? There it is again: More
consequences follow from the reality of God than we are often willing to
admit. It is the mind of God to which we turn in seeking an answer to
meaning. The gospel of Jesus Christ deals precisely with the question
why.
Jesus says, have come that they may have life, and have it to the full"
(John
10:10). He tells his disciples that he wanted their joy to be full. The
wealthy and the poor, the young and the old came and drew life and joy
from him. How did he give life meaning?

[1]

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

1 Quoted in David Friend, The Meaning of Life (Boston: Little, Brown,
1991), 90.

2 Quoted in Alister McGrath, Intellectuals Don't Need God and Other
Modern Myths (Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1993), 15.

3 Stephen Jay Gould, quoted in The Meaning of Life, 33.

4 Stephen Hawking, A Brief History of Time (London: Bantam Books,
1988), 175.

[1]Geisler, N. L., & Hoffman, P. K. (2001). Why I am a Christian :
Leading thinkers explain why they believe (268). Grand Rapids, Mich.:
Baker Books.


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In article >,
says...
> 13 But now faith, hope, love, abide these three; but the ?1?greatest of these is
> ?a?love.
>
That's Earthquack knackered then, seeing as his wife fled to California
and got a restraining order out on him.

The only love he has is for the sound of his own shrieking voice

FR

--
Earthquack reminds me of a drowning man, alone at sea. Clutching at
pieces of driftwood and declaring that they are "Proof of Boat"

"lambert.uk" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Pious Paul" > wrote in message
> link.net...
>>
>> "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" > wrote in message
>> oups.com...
>>> friend George wrote:
>>>>
>>>> "Genus"?
>>>
>>> No.
>>>
>>> Demons (satan's sockpuppets) are infinitely less than a subspecies.
>>>
>>> May GOD bless you.
>>>
>>> Prayerfully in Jesus' ever-lasting love,
>>>
>>> Andrew <><
>>> --
>>> Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
>>
>> Don't do me any favors. Just the thought of someone believing in some sky
>> pixie (other than the God Tinkerbelle) makes me PUKE!
>>
>> I wasn't responding to you, anyway.
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> "The number one reason people turn away from Christ is Christians!"
>>
>>
>> Pious Paul
>>
>> "Man of Sin"
>>
>>
>> Ordained Minister-Universal Life Church <== by whom!

http://www.jesusseesus.ws/revpious.jpg

>> AFJC Photo Archivist <== smut folder
>> DOD#144,000 (the LAST one in) <== I doubt you'll ever get
>> in!
>>
>> "AFJC...We Care" <== about me, mtsel,
>> and Ionly

Of course, we all care about the misguided at AFJC.

<snip>

BAAAAAAAARF!

Damn it. Now I'll have to plonk you.



--

"The number one reason people turn away from Christ is Christians!"


Pious Paul

"Man of Sin"


Ordained Minister-Universal Life Church
AFJC Photo Archivist
DOD#144,000 (the LAST one in)

"AFJC...We Care"

Personally, I don't care much for all this "love" talk, coming from the myth
book of an institution that has a history of ignorance, murder and terror.

If the gods yahweh and jesus are real, then let them appear, prove their
existences and powers, and let man know what they want.

If they can't do that, then forget it - it's not real.





"St. Jockofgrapes" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Kurt Gavin" > wrote in message
> ink.net...
>>
>> "lambert.uk" > wrote in message
>> news:lq2dnVrx4OVF-
>>
>>
>>>
>>> 22 ?a?Professing to be wise, they ?unbelievers? became fools,
>>>
>>
>> Yes, the whole shrieking mess is filled with question marks, which is
>> more polite than just coming out and saying it is a bunch of low class
>> bullshit.
>>
>> Of course, if there really was a god, he would have utter disdain for
>> groveling brainless "worshippers" and will make them the slaves in the
>> afterlife of those who were intelligent enough to question and be
>> atheists. <=== hehehaha (-: ;-)
>>
>
>
> The Excellence of Love
>
>
> (1 Corinthians 13 NASB)
>
> The Excellence of Love
>
> 1 If I speak with the ?a?tongues of men and of ?b?angels, but do
> not have
> love, I have become a noisy gong or a ?c?clanging cymbal.
>
> 2 If I have the gift of ?a?prophecy, and know all ?b?mysteries and
> all
> ?c?knowledge; and if I have ?d?all faith, so as to ?e?remove
> mountains, but do
> not have love, I am nothing.
>
> 3 And if I ?a?give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I
> ?b?surrender
> my body ?1?to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing.
>
> 4 Love ?a?is patient, love is kind and ?b?is not jealous; love
> does not brag and
> is not ?c?arrogant,
>
> 5 does not act unbecomingly; it ?a?does not seek its own, is not
> provoked,
> ?b?does not take into account a wrong suffered,
>
> 6 ?a?does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but ?b?rejoices with the
> truth;
>
> 7 ?1??a?bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things,
> endures all things.
>
> 8 Love never fails; but if there are gifts of ?1??a?prophecy, they
> will be done
> away; if there are ?b?tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge,
> it will be
> done away.
>
> 9 For we ?a?know in part and we prophesy in part;
>
> 10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away.
>
> 11 When I was a child, I used to speak like a child, think like a
> child, reason
> like a child; when I ?1?became a man, I did away with childish things.
>
> 12 For now we ?a?see in a mirror ?1?dimly, but then ?b?face to
> face; now I
> know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also ?c?have been
> fully known.
>
> 13 But now faith, hope, love, abide these three; but the
> ?1?greatest of these is
> ?a?love.
>
> [1]
>
>
> I love my wife. I love my kids. I love Big Macs. I love walks in the park
> on summer
> evenings. We use the word "love" so freely that we diminish its meaning.
> The Greeks
> circumvented this problem by using four words for love..
>
> . Storgi means affection. Storgi is the kind of love one feels toward
> his cat or dog.
>
> . Eros refers to sexual, physical love.
>
> . Phileo, from which we get the name "Philadelphia," speaks of
> brotherly love.
> Phileo says, "If you're nice to me, I'll be nice to you."
>
> It wasn't until the New Testament apostles introduced the concept of
> unconditional
> love that the Greeks added agape to their vocabulary. Agape is a love that
> gives
> simply for the sake of giving, never expecting anything in return. People
> who don't
> know the Lord can experience all of the other kinds of love. But for them,
> agape is
> impossible because it is found only in God. Agape is the love of which
> Paul speaks
> when he says, "If I don't have love, I'm just making noise even if I speak
> in tongues
> fluently."
>
> In the year 1647, during England's Civil War, a deserter in Cromwell's
> army was
> captured and brought before him.
>
> "When the curfew bell sounds tonight, you shall be executed," said the
> general.
>
> But that night, the curfew bell was not heard. Upon investigation, it was
> discovered
> that, receiving news of her fianci's sentence, his betrothed made her way
> quickly to
> the camp and hid in the bell tower. As curfew neared, she positioned
> herself within
> the bell in such a way that when the rope was pulled, the clapper hit her
> body rather
> than the inside of the bell. Seeing the bruised and battered lady standing
> before him,
> Cromwell was so deeply touched by her love that the soldier's life was
> spared.
>
> Jesus Christ climbed not a bell tower, but the hill of Calvary in order
> that you and I
> would be spared the execution we so rightfully deserve. Whether the word
> is charity,
> love, or agape, the love Jesus showed us, the love we are to extend to one
> another is
>
> spelled one way: S-a-c-r-i-f-i-c-e.
>
> [2]
>
>
> A Topical Study of 1 Corinthians 13:4
>
> The description of agape seen in 1 Corinthians 13 is glorious indeed. But,
> to the
> believer, this passage can be very frustrating as well. You see, in 1
> Corinthians 13,
> we read that love is longsuffering and kind, that it neither envies nor
> seeks its own,
> that it bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, and
> endures all things, that
> it never fails.
>
> "What a beautiful description of love," we say with one breath, but, "too
> bad I'm so
> far from it," with the next.
>
> Today, however, I want you to look at the chapter before us from a
> slightly different
> perspective. The apostle John tells us that God is love-literally that God
> is agape (1
> John 4:16). Paul tells us that this Fountainhead of agape, the Essence of
> love, God
> Himself demonstrated His love for us in that while we were yet sinners He
> died in
> place of us (Romans 5:8). Seen in this light, 1 Corinthians 13 becomes not
> only an
> exhortation to love others, but, more importantly, a description of God's
> love for
> us..
>
> Love suffereth long. 1 Corinthians 13:4 (a)
>
> God suffers long. He suffers long toward me. Think of Jesus on the Cross.
> As men
> cursed Him and spit on Him, what did He do? He suffered long. He said,
> "Father
> forgive them. They don't know what they're doing" (see Luke 23:34). My
> tendency
> is to think I've blown it so badly that surely God has given up on me. But
> the Cross
> shows me otherwise.
>
> .and is kind. 1 Corinthians 13:4 (b)
>
> If you think God is vengeful, angry, and mean-spirited, you have the wrong
> image of
> God. So kind, so gentle, so big-hearted is He that He does more for us
> than we
> could ever ask or even think (Ephesians 3:20).
>
> The psalmist tells us that the Lord will withhold no good thing from those
> that love
> Him (Psalm 84:11). Therefore, if I'm not getting something for which I'm
> asking, it's
> because what I'm asking for would not be good for me. If the timing isn't
> right, if the
> request is wrong, He'll withhold it not because He's mean, but because He
> is love.
>
> .love envieth not. 1 Corinthians 13:4 (c)
>
> Bound together in the Trinity, Father, Son, and Spirit are completely
> self-sufficient
> and totally happy. God says, "I want to walk with you; I'll never give up
> on you; I
> avail Myself to you-but I'm not dependent on you." God's love is mature.
>
> .love vaunteth not itself. 1 Corinthians 13:4 (d)
>
> God doesn't have to hype Himself. What He says, He does. Who He claims to
> be,
> He really is.
>
> .is not puffed up. 1 Corinthians 13:4 (e)
>
> God doesn't say, "I'm God and you're dust." No, He came to dwell among us,
> to
> walk with us, to die for us. And He's the same today. He's always
> available to me,
> always ready to hear my prayers, always ready to share with me truths from
> His
> Word.
>
> When I read 1 Corinthians 13 in this light, what does it do?
>
> The apostle John tells us exactly what it does when he literally says, "We
> love
> because He first loved us" (see 1 John 4:19). The person who understands
> that 1
> Corinthians 13 is most fundamentally talking about the nature and
> character of God's
> love toward him personally will be one who inevitably overflows with love
> to the
> people around him.
>
> We looked at only one verse in Paul's perfectly placed pomegranate of
> love. As you
> make your way through the rest of the chapter, you will see God's love for
> you in
> every verse. Marvel at it. Bask in it. Then let it overflow from your life
> to everyone
> around you.
>
> [3]
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> a 1 Cor 12:10
> b 2 Cor 12:4; Rev 14:2
> c Ps 150:5
> a Matt 7:22; Acts 13:1; 1 Cor 11:4; 13:8; 14:1, 39
> b 1 Cor 14:2; 15:51
> c Rom 15:14
> d 1 Cor 12:9
> e Matt 17:20; 21:21; Mark 11:23
> a Matt 6:2
> b Dan 3:28
> 1 Early mss read that I may boast
> a Prov 10:12; 17:9; 1 Thess 5:14; 1 Pet 4:8
> b Acts 7:9
> c 1 Cor 4:6
> a 1 Cor 10:24; Phil 2:21
> b 2 Cor 5:19
> a 2 Thess 2:12
> b 2 John 4; 3 John 3f
> 1 Or covers
> a 1 Cor 9:12
> 1 Lit prophecies
> a 1 Cor 13:2
> b 1 Cor 13:1
> a 1 Cor 8:2; 13:12
> 1 Lit have become...have done away with
> a 2 Cor 5:7; Phil 3:12; James 1:23
> 1 Lit in a riddle
> b Gen 32:30; Num 12:8; 1 John 3:2
> c 1 Cor 8:3
> 1 Lit greater
> a Gal 5:6
>
> [1]New American Standard Bible : 1995 update. 1995 (1 Co 13:1). LaHabra,
> CA:
> The Lockman Foundation.
>
> [2]Courson, J. (2003). Jon Courson's Application Commentary (1074).
> Nashville,
> TN: Thomas Nelson.
>
> [3]Courson, J. (2003). Jon Courson's Application Commentary (1078).
> Nashville,
> TN: Thomas Nelson.
>
>
>
> -----------------
> www.Newsgroup-Binaries.com - *Completion*Retention*Speed*
> Access your favorite newsgroups from home or on the road
> -----------------

"Thumper" > wrote in message
thlink.net...
>
> "lambert.uk" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Pious Paul" > wrote in message
>> link.net...
>>>
>>> "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" > wrote in message
>>> oups.com...
>>>> friend George wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> "Genus"?
>>>>
>>>> No.
>>>>
>>>> Demons (satan's sockpuppets) are infinitely less than a subspecies.
>>>>
>>>> May GOD bless you.
>>>>
>>>> Prayerfully in Jesus' ever-lasting love,
>>>>
>>>> Andrew <><
>>>> --
>>>> Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
>>>
>>> Don't do me any favors. Just the thought of someone believing in some
>>> sky pixie (other than the God Tinkerbelle) makes me PUKE!
>>>
>>> I wasn't responding to you, anyway.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> "The number one reason people turn away from Christ is Christians!"
>>>
>>>
>>> Pious Paul
>>>
>>> "Man of Sin"
>>>
>>>
>>> Ordained Minister-Universal Life Church <== by whom!
>
> http://www.jesusseesus.ws/revpious.jpg
>
>>> AFJC Photo Archivist <== smut folder
>>> DOD#144,000 (the LAST one in) <== I doubt you'll ever get
>>> in!
>>>
>>> "AFJC...We Care" <== about me, mtsel,
>>> and Ionly
>
> Of course, we all care about the misguided at AFJC.
>
> <snip>
>
> BAAAAAAAARF!
>
> Damn it. Now I'll have to plonk you.
He'll be right back with a diff nym

> "The number one reason people turn away from Christ is Christians!"
>
>
> Pious Paul
>
> "Man of Sin"
>
>
> Ordained Minister-Universal Life Church
> AFJC Photo Archivist
> DOD#144,000 (the LAST one in)
>
> "AFJC...We Care"

We most certainly do!
>
>
>
>
>
>

"Thumper" > wrote in message thlink.net...
>
> "lambert.uk" > wrote in message ...
>>
>> "Pious Paul" > wrote in message link.net...
>>>
>>> "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" > wrote in message oups.com...
>>>> friend George wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> "Genus"?
>>>>
>>>> No.
>>>>
>>>> Demons (satan's sockpuppets) are infinitely less than a subspecies.
>>>>
>>>> May GOD bless you.
>>>>
>>>> Prayerfully in Jesus' ever-lasting love,
>>>>
>>>> Andrew <><
>>>> --
>>>> Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
>>>
>>> Don't do me any favors. Just the thought of someone believing in some sky pixie (other than the God Tinkerbelle) makes me PUKE!
>>>
>>> I wasn't responding to you, anyway.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> "The number one reason people turn away from Christ is Christians!"
>>>
>>>
>>> Pious Paul
>>>
>>> "Man of Sin"
>>>
>>>
>>> Ordained Minister-Universal Life Church <== by whom!
>
> http://www.jesusseesus.ws/revpious.jpg
>
>>> AFJC Photo Archivist <== smut folder
>>> DOD#144,000 (the LAST one in) <== I doubt you'll ever get in!
>>>
>>> "AFJC...We Care" <== about me, mtsel, and Ionly
>
> Of course, we all care about the misguided at AFJC.
>
> <snip>

> BAAAAAAAARF! <== The atheist bellow, like a frustrated goat:
BAAWAAAAAAAAA, etc.




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-----------------

"Kurt Gavin" > wrote in message nk.net...
> Personally, I don't care much for all this "love" talk, coming from the myth book of an institution that has a history of
> ignorance, murder and terror.
>
> If the gods yahweh and jesus are real, then let them appear, prove their existences and powers, and let man know what they want.
>
> If they can't do that, then forget it - it's not real. <== ALREADY HAVE!

>>
>> The Excellence of Love
>>
>>
>> (1 Corinthians 13 NASB)
>>
>> The Excellence of Love
>>
>> 1 If I speak with the ?a?tongues of men and of ?b?angels, but do not have
>> love, I have become a noisy gong or a ?c?clanging cymbal.
>>
>> 2 If I have the gift of ?a?prophecy, and know all ?b?mysteries and all
>> ?c?knowledge; and if I have ?d?all faith, so as to ?e?remove mountains, but do
>> not have love, I am nothing.
>>
>> 3 And if I ?a?give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I ?b?surrender
>> my body ?1?to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing.
>>
>> 4 Love ?a?is patient, love is kind and ?b?is not jealous; love does not brag and
>> is not ?c?arrogant,
>>
>> 5 does not act unbecomingly; it ?a?does not seek its own, is not provoked,
>> ?b?does not take into account a wrong suffered,
>>
>> 6 ?a?does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but ?b?rejoices with the truth;
>>
>> 7 ?1??a?bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
>>
>> 8 Love never fails; but if there are gifts of ?1??a?prophecy, they will be done
>> away; if there are ?b?tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be
>> done away.
>>
>> 9 For we ?a?know in part and we prophesy in part;
>>
>> 10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away.
>>
>> 11 When I was a child, I used to speak like a child, think like a child, reason
>> like a child; when I ?1?became a man, I did away with childish things.
>>
>> 12 For now we ?a?see in a mirror ?1?dimly, but then ?b?face to face; now I
>> know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also ?c?have been fully known.
>>
>> 13 But now faith, hope, love, abide these three; but the ?1?greatest of these is
>> ?a?love.
>>
>> [1]
>>
>>
>> I love my wife. I love my kids. I love Big Macs. I love walks in the park on summer
>> evenings. We use the word "love" so freely that we diminish its meaning. The Greeks
>> circumvented this problem by using four words for love..
>>
>> . Storgi means affection. Storgi is the kind of love one feels toward his cat or dog.
>>
>> . Eros refers to sexual, physical love.
>>
>> . Phileo, from which we get the name "Philadelphia," speaks of brotherly love.
>> Phileo says, "If you're nice to me, I'll be nice to you."
>>
>> It wasn't until the New Testament apostles introduced the concept of unconditional
>> love that the Greeks added agape to their vocabulary. Agape is a love that gives
>> simply for the sake of giving, never expecting anything in return. People who don't
>> know the Lord can experience all of the other kinds of love. But for them, agape is
>> impossible because it is found only in God. Agape is the love of which Paul speaks
>> when he says, "If I don't have love, I'm just making noise even if I speak in tongues
>> fluently."
>>
>> In the year 1647, during England's Civil War, a deserter in Cromwell's army was
>> captured and brought before him.
>>
>> "When the curfew bell sounds tonight, you shall be executed," said the general.
>>
>> But that night, the curfew bell was not heard. Upon investigation, it was discovered
>> that, receiving news of her fianci's sentence, his betrothed made her way quickly to
>> the camp and hid in the bell tower. As curfew neared, she positioned herself within
>> the bell in such a way that when the rope was pulled, the clapper hit her body rather
>> than the inside of the bell. Seeing the bruised and battered lady standing before him,
>> Cromwell was so deeply touched by her love that the soldier's life was spared.
>>
>> Jesus Christ climbed not a bell tower, but the hill of Calvary in order that you and I
>> would be spared the execution we so rightfully deserve. Whether the word is charity,
>> love, or agape, the love Jesus showed us, the love we are to extend to one another is
>>
>> spelled one way: S-a-c-r-i-f-i-c-e.
>>
>> [2]
>>
>>
>> A Topical Study of 1 Corinthians 13:4
>>
>> The description of agape seen in 1 Corinthians 13 is glorious indeed. But, to the
>> believer, this passage can be very frustrating as well. You see, in 1 Corinthians 13,
>> we read that love is longsuffering and kind, that it neither envies nor seeks its own,
>> that it bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, and endures all things, that
>> it never fails.
>>
>> "What a beautiful description of love," we say with one breath, but, "too bad I'm so
>> far from it," with the next.
>>
>> Today, however, I want you to look at the chapter before us from a slightly different
>> perspective. The apostle John tells us that God is love-literally that God is agape (1
>> John 4:16). Paul tells us that this Fountainhead of agape, the Essence of love, God
>> Himself demonstrated His love for us in that while we were yet sinners He died in
>> place of us (Romans 5:8). Seen in this light, 1 Corinthians 13 becomes not only an
>> exhortation to love others, but, more importantly, a description of God's love for
>> us..
>>
>> Love suffereth long. 1 Corinthians 13:4 (a)
>>
>> God suffers long. He suffers long toward me. Think of Jesus on the Cross. As men
>> cursed Him and spit on Him, what did He do? He suffered long. He said, "Father
>> forgive them. They don't know what they're doing" (see Luke 23:34). My tendency
>> is to think I've blown it so badly that surely God has given up on me. But the Cross
>> shows me otherwise.
>>
>> .and is kind. 1 Corinthians 13:4 (b)
>>
>> If you think God is vengeful, angry, and mean-spirited, you have the wrong image of
>> God. So kind, so gentle, so big-hearted is He that He does more for us than we
>> could ever ask or even think (Ephesians 3:20).
>>
>> The psalmist tells us that the Lord will withhold no good thing from those that love
>> Him (Psalm 84:11). Therefore, if I'm not getting something for which I'm asking, it's
>> because what I'm asking for would not be good for me. If the timing isn't right, if the
>> request is wrong, He'll withhold it not because He's mean, but because He is love.
>>
>> .love envieth not. 1 Corinthians 13:4 (c)
>>
>> Bound together in the Trinity, Father, Son, and Spirit are completely self-sufficient
>> and totally happy. God says, "I want to walk with you; I'll never give up on you; I
>> avail Myself to you-but I'm not dependent on you." God's love is mature.
>>
>> .love vaunteth not itself. 1 Corinthians 13:4 (d)
>>
>> God doesn't have to hype Himself. What He says, He does. Who He claims to be,
>> He really is.
>>
>> .is not puffed up. 1 Corinthians 13:4 (e)
>>
>> God doesn't say, "I'm God and you're dust." No, He came to dwell among us, to
>> walk with us, to die for us. And He's the same today. He's always available to me,
>> always ready to hear my prayers, always ready to share with me truths from His
>> Word.
>>
>> When I read 1 Corinthians 13 in this light, what does it do?
>>
>> The apostle John tells us exactly what it does when he literally says, "We love
>> because He first loved us" (see 1 John 4:19). The person who understands that 1
>> Corinthians 13 is most fundamentally talking about the nature and character of God's
>> love toward him personally will be one who inevitably overflows with love to the
>> people around him.
>>
>> We looked at only one verse in Paul's perfectly placed pomegranate of love. As you
>> make your way through the rest of the chapter, you will see God's love for you in
>> every verse. Marvel at it. Bask in it. Then let it overflow from your life to everyone
>> around you.
>>
>> [3]
>>
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> a 1 Cor 12:10
>> b 2 Cor 12:4; Rev 14:2
>> c Ps 150:5
>> a Matt 7:22; Acts 13:1; 1 Cor 11:4; 13:8; 14:1, 39
>> b 1 Cor 14:2; 15:51
>> c Rom 15:14
>> d 1 Cor 12:9
>> e Matt 17:20; 21:21; Mark 11:23
>> a Matt 6:2
>> b Dan 3:28
>> 1 Early mss read that I may boast
>> a Prov 10:12; 17:9; 1 Thess 5:14; 1 Pet 4:8
>> b Acts 7:9
>> c 1 Cor 4:6
>> a 1 Cor 10:24; Phil 2:21
>> b 2 Cor 5:19
>> a 2 Thess 2:12
>> b 2 John 4; 3 John 3f
>> 1 Or covers
>> a 1 Cor 9:12
>> 1 Lit prophecies
>> a 1 Cor 13:2
>> b 1 Cor 13:1
>> a 1 Cor 8:2; 13:12
>> 1 Lit have become...have done away with
>> a 2 Cor 5:7; Phil 3:12; James 1:23
>> 1 Lit in a riddle
>> b Gen 32:30; Num 12:8; 1 John 3:2
>> c 1 Cor 8:3
>> 1 Lit greater
>> a Gal 5:6
>>
>> [1]New American Standard Bible : 1995 update. 1995 (1 Co 13:1). LaHabra, CA:
>> The Lockman Foundation.
>>
>> [2]Courson, J. (2003). Jon Courson's Application Commentary (1074). Nashville,
>> TN: Thomas Nelson.
>>
>> [3]Courson, J. (2003). Jon Courson's Application Commentary (1078). Nashville,
>> TN: Thomas Nelson.
>>
>>
>>
>> -----------------
>> www.Newsgroup-Binaries.com - *Completion*Retention*Speed*
>> Access your favorite newsgroups from home or on the road
>> -----------------
>
>


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"Irv 'Cottonmouth' Hyatt" > wrote in message ...
>
>>>> "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" > wrote in message oups.com...
>>>>> friend George wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Genus"?
>>>>>
>>>>> No.
>>>>>
>>>>> Demons (satan's sockpuppets) are infinitely less than a subspecies.
>>>>>
>>>>> May GOD bless you.
>>>>>
>>>>> Prayerfully in Jesus' ever-lasting love,
>>>>>
>>>>> Andrew <><
>>>>> --
>>>>> Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
>>>>
>>>> Don't do me any favors. Just the thought of someone believing in some sky pixie (other than the God Tinkerbelle) makes me PUKE!
>>>>
>>>> I wasn't responding to you, anyway.
>>>>
>>>>
>> Of course, we all care about the misguided at AFJC.
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>> BAAAAAAAARF! <=== The atheist bellow, like a frustrated goat:

BAAWAAAAAAAAA, etc.

>> Damn it. Now I'll have to plonk you.
> He'll be right back with a diff nym


-- Sig
"Do not give dogs what is holy; and do not throw your
pearls before swine, lest they trample them under foot and
turn to attack you. "(Matthew 7:6 RSV)
"Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's
clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves." (Matthew 7:15 RSV)
Overview the Bible
http://76.162.173.93/bible-study/=CD-R=ltb-24/
There's no hurry?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrmDWn6awMA
"The best way to drive out the devil, if he will
not yield to texts of Scripture, is to jeer and
flout him, for he cannot bear scorn."
Heaven & Hell
http://76.162.173.93/prophecy/=CD-R=heaven-and-hell/
The Gospel of Matthew
http://76.162.173.93/bible-study/=CD-R=matthew-rv/
A Primer on Prophecy
http://76.162.173.93//prophecy/=CD-R...-101-small-wmv
Born once, die twice. Born twice, die once.
Wisdom of a Lifetime - Audio MP3 Collection -
http://bibleweb.info/ftp/ftp-members-0002.html
The Last (5th) Horseman
http://bibleweb.info/ftp/ftp-members-0003.html
The Facts About Jesus, the Bible & the Afterlife
http://bibleweb.info/ftp/ftp-members-0004.html
The Way - http://john-14-6.com/john-14-6.pdf
A Tribute to THE KING
http://bibleweb.info/public-a-tribute-to-the-king.pdf
How to Spot a Counterfeit
http://76.162.173.93/guest/ar-mp3/ar...ounterfeit.mp3
But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be
false teachers among you. They will secretly bring in destructive heresies,
even denying the Master who bought them, and will bring swift destruction
on themselves (2 Peter 2:1).
Scriptural Christianity
http://76.162.173.93/guest/=CD-R=scr...-christianity/
My Main Collection - http://Bibleweb.Info/
Maranatha!





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St. Jockofgrapes > wrote:

>"Phÿltêr" > wrote in message
. ..
>>>> "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" > wrote in message
>>>> oups.com...
>>>>> friend George wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Genus"?
>>>>>
>>>>> No.
>>>>>
>>>>> Demons (satan's sockpuppets) are infinitely less than a subspecies.
>>>>>
>>>>> May GOD bless you.
>>>>>
>>>>> Prayerfully in Jesus' ever-lasting love,
>>>>>
>>>>> Andrew <><
>>>>> --
>>>>> Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
>>>>
>>>> Don't do me any favors. Just the thought of someone believing in some
>>>> sky pixie (other than the God Tinkerbelle) makes me PUKE!
>>>>
>>>> I wasn't responding to you, anyway.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ordained Minister-Universal Life Church <== by whom!
>>>> AFJC Photo Archivist <== smut folder
>>>> DOD#144,000 (the LAST one in) <== I doubt you'll ever
>>>> get in!
>>>>
>>>> "AFJC...We Care" <== about me,
>>>> mtsel, and Ionly
>>>
>>> Unbelief and Its Consequences
>>
>> Many lines of cut & paste drivel snipped...
>>
>> There won't be any consequences. Your god is as inconsequential as Zeus
>> or Odin (to name but two).
>>
>
> Phÿltêr - (PHAP) aka "She's So Fat ..." I see U got outta jail for that
>female
> impersonation in the park a week ago, huh. (-:
>
> UR still looking fer meaning urine life?

Wow, a urine lame. How profound.
>
> The Search for Meaning
>
> One might well ask what those pursuits are that bridge the existential and
> the rigorously intellectual? At the center of life lie four questions of
>origin,
> meaning, morality, and destiny. How did I come to be? What brings life

Oh lookie, a screedmonkey. Haven't seen one of these for, say, 3 hours.

[screed dumped]

--
Supreme Leader of the Brainwashed Followers of Art Deco

"Still suffering from reading comprehension problems, Deco?
The section is clearly attributed to Art Deco, not to you, Deco."
-- Dr. David Tholen

"Who is "David Tholen", Daedalus? Still suffering from
attribution problems?"
-- Dr. David Tholen

"St. Jockofgrapes" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Kurt Gavin" > wrote in message
> nk.net...
>> Personally, I don't care much for all this "love" talk, coming from the
>> myth book of an institution that has a history of ignorance, murder and
>> terror.
>>
>> If the gods yahweh and jesus are real, then let them appear, prove their
>> existences and powers, and let man know what they want.
>>
>> If they can't do that, then forget it - it's not real. <== ALREADY
>> HAVE!

No they haven't - the yarns about yahweh and jesus appearing are very
phoney. The book of judas describes how jesus had to ORDER judas to pretend
to betray him to the priests, so he could be victimized and APPEAR to
fulfill some sort of prophecy.

Not very godlike behavior.

In any case, unless they lived once, but are dead now, let these "gods"
appear to all of mankind and prove their existences and powers, and let man
know what they want.


If they can't do that, then forget it - it's not real.

"Kurt Gavin" > wrote in message thlink.net...
>
> "St. Jockofgrapes" > wrote in message ...
>>
>> "Kurt Gavin" > wrote in message nk.net...
>>> Personally, I don't care much for all this "love" talk, coming from the myth book of an institution that has a history of
>>> ignorance, murder and terror.
>>>
>>> If the gods yahweh and jesus are real, then let them appear, prove their existences and powers, and let man know what they want.
>>>
>>> If they can't do that, then forget it - it's not real. <== ALREADY HAVE!
>
> No they haven't - the yarns about yahweh and jesus appearing are very phoney. The book of judas <== False book.

>describes how jesus had to ORDER judas to pretend to betray him to the priests, so he could be victimized and APPEAR to fulfill
>some sort of prophecy.
>
> Not very godlike behavior.
>
> In any case, unless they lived once, but are dead now, let these "gods" appear to all of mankind and prove their existences and
> powers, and let man know what they want.
>
>
> If they can't do that, then forget it - it's not real.
>
>



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

"Kurt Gavin" > wrote in message thlink.net...
>
> "St. Jockofgrapes" > wrote in message ...
>>
>> "Kurt Gavin" > wrote in message nk.net...
>>> Personally, I don't care much for all this "love" talk, coming from the myth book of an institution that has a history of
>>> ignorance, murder and terror.
>>>
>>> If the gods yahweh and jesus are real, then let them appear, prove their existences and powers, and let man know what they want.
>>>
>>> If they can't do that, then forget it - it's not real. <== ALREADY HAVE!
>
> No they haven't - the yarns about yahweh and jesus appearing are very phoney. The book of judas <== false book. (-:

==
Archaeology and the New Testament Written by Patrick Zukeran

There is an ongoing debate among scholars regarding the historical accuracy
of the Bible. Some feel that the Bible is a fictitious work and should be
read as a work of literary fiction. Others feel it is an accurate
historical work divinely inspired by God. Archaeology has played a major
role in determining the trustworthiness of the Bible. In a previous
article, we discussed archaeological confirmations of the Old Testament. In
this one, we will look at the archaeological discoveries that have
confirmed the historical accuracy of the New Testament. There is a great
deal of evidence outside of the Bible that confirms the account of Jesus as
written in the Gospels.

It is important to realize, however, that it is unrealistic to expect
archaeology to back up every event and place in the New Testament. Our
perspective is to look for what evidence exists and see whether or not it
corresponds with the New Testament.

Historical Confirmation of Jesus The first evidence comes from the four
Gospels which, themselves, are proven to be accurate.{1} Outside the
biblical text are several witnesses as well. Jewish historian Josephus (37
A.D.-100 A.D.) recorded the history of the Jewish people in Palestine from
70 A.D. to 100 A.D. In his work Antiquities, he states: Now there was about
this time, Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was
a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with
pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the
gentiles. He was the Christ and when Pilate, at the suggestion of the
principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved
him at the first did not forsake him. For he appeared alive again the third
day, as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other
wonderful things concerning him; and the tribe of Christians, so named from
him, are not extinct to this day.{2}

Although he mentions Jesus in a sarcastic way, Josephus confirms the facts
that Jesus did do many great miracles, drew a following, was crucified, and
was proclaimed alive on the third day.

Pliny the Younger, Emperor of Bythynia in northwestern Turkey, writing to
Emperor Trajan in 112 A.D. writes:

They were in the habit of meeting on a certain fixed day before it was
light, when they sang an anthem to Christ as God, and bound themselves by a
solemn oath not to commit any wicked deed, but to abstain from all fraud,
theft and adultery, never to break their word, or deny a trust when called
upon to honor it; after which it was their custom to separate, and then
meet again to partake of food, but ordinary and innocent kind.

One of the most important Romans historians is Tacitus. In 115 A.D. he
recorded Nero's persecution of the Christians, in the process of which he
wrote the following:

Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty
during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators,
Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the
moment, again broke out not only in Judea, . . . but even in Rome.{3}

There are over 39 extra-biblical sources that attest to over one hundred
facts regarding the life and teachings of Jesus.

Accuracy of the Gospels The accuracy of the Gospels has been supported by
archaeology. The names of many of the Israelite cities, events, and people
described in them have now been located. Here are a few examples.

The Gospels mention four neighboring and well-populated coastal cities
along the Sea of Galilee: Capernaum, Bethsaida, Chorazin, and Tiberias.
Jesus performed many miracles in the first three cities. Despite this
testimony, these cities rejected Jesus and therefore were cursed by Him
(Matt. 11:20-24; Luke 10:12-16). These cities eventually disappeared from
history and their locations remained missing for centuries. Their demise
fulfills the prophetic condemnation of Jesus.

Only recently has archaeology recovered their possible locations. Tell Hum
is believed to be Capernaum. (A "tell" is a mound or elevated land that has
arisen by repeated and long-term rebuilding of the same site. Layers of
civilizations can be found at different strata). The locations of Bethsaida
and Chorazin still remain unconfirmed, but the present site at a tell 1.5
miles north of the Galilean shoreline is believed to be Bethsaida, while
Tell Khirbet Kerezah, 2.5 miles northwest of Capernaum, is thought to be
Chorazin.

Matthew 2 states that Jesus was born during the reign of Herod. Upon
hearing that a king had been born, the frightened Herod ordered all
children under the age of two to be killed. His slaughter of innocents is
consistent with the historical facts that describe his character. Herod was
suspicious of anyone whom he thought may take his throne. His list of
victims included one of his ten wives, who was his favorite, three of his
own sons, a high priest, an ex-king, and two of his sister's husbands.
Thus, his brutality portrayed in Matthew is consistent with his description
in ancient history.

John's accuracy has also been attested to by recent discoveries. In John
5:1-15 Jesus heals a man at the Pool of Bethesda. John describes the pool
as having five porticoes. This site had long been in dispute until
recently. Forty feet underground, archaeologists discovered a pool with
five porticoes, and the description of the surrounding area matches John's
description. In 9:7 John mentions another long disputed site, the Pool of
Siloam. However, this pool was also discovered in 1897, upholding the
accuracy of John.

Evidence for Pontius Pilate, the governor who presided over the trial of
Jesus, was discovered in Caesarea Maritama. In 1961, an Italian
archaeologist named Antonio Frova uncovered a fragment of a plaque that was
used as a section of steps leading to the Caesarea Theater. The
inscription, written in Latin, contained the phrase, "Pontius Pilatus,
Prefect of Judea has dedicated to the people of Caesarea a temple in honor
of Tiberius." This temple is dedicated to the Emperor Tiberius who reigned
from 14-37 A.D. This fits well chronologically with the New Testament which
records that Pilot ruled as procurator from 26-36 A.D. Tacitus, a Roman
historian of the first century, also confirms the New Testament designation
of Pilate. He writes, "Christus, from whom the name had its origin,
suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of
one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus. . . ."

Confirmation Regarding the Crucifixion All four Gospels give details of the
crucifixion of Christ. Their accurate portrayal of this Roman practice has
been confirmed by archaeology. In 1968, a gravesite in the city of
Jerusalem was uncovered containing thirty- five bodies. Each of the men had
died a brutal death which historians believe was the result of their
involvement in the Jewish revolt against Rome in 70 A.D.

The inscription identified one individual as Yohan Ben Ha'galgol. Studies
of the bones performed by osteologists and doctors from the Hadassah
Medical School determined the man was twenty-eight years old, stood five
feet six inches, and had some slight facial defects due to a cleft right
palate.

What intrigued archaeologists were the evidences that this man had been
crucified in a manner resembling the crucifixion of Christ. A seven-inch
nail had been driven through both feet, which were turned outward so the
nail could be hammered inside the Achilles tendon.

Archaeologists also discovered that nails had been driven through his lower
forearms. A victim of a crucifixion would have to raise and lower his body
in order to breathe. To do this, he needed to push up on his pierced feet
and pull up with his arms. Yohan's upper arms were smoothly worn,
indicating this movement.

John records that in order to expedite the death of a prisoner,
executioners broke the legs of the victim so that he could not lift himself
up by pushing with his feet (19:31-33). Yohan's legs were found crushed by
a blow, breaking them below the knee. The Dead Sea Scrolls tell that both
Jews and Romans abhorred crucifixion due to its cruelty and humiliation.
The scrolls also state it was a punishment reserved for slaves and any who
challenged the ruling powers of Rome. This explains why Pilate chose
crucifixion as the penalty for Jesus.

Relating to the crucifixion, in 1878 a stone slab was found in Nazareth
with a decree from Emperor Claudius who reigned from 41-54 A.D. It stated
that graves must not be disturbed nor bodies to be removed. The punishment
on other decrees is a fine but this one threatens death and comes very
close to the time of the resurrection. This was probably due to Claudius
investigating the riots of 49 A.D. He had certainly heard of the
resurrection and did not want any similar incidents. This decree was
probably made in connection with the Apostles' preaching of Jesus'
resurrection and the Jewish argument that the body had been stolen.

Historian Thallus wrote in 52 A.D. Although none of his texts remain, his
work is cited by Julius Africanus' work, Chronography. Quoting Thallus on
the crucifixion of Christ, Africanus states, "On the whole world, there
pressed a most fearful darkness, and the rocks were rent by an earthquake,
and many places in Judea and other districts were thrown down."{4} Thallus
calls this darkness, "as appears to me without reason, an eclipse of the
sun."{5}

All the discoveries made are consistent with the details in the crucifixion
account given by the writers of the Gospels. These facts lend indirect
support for the biblical accounts of Jesus' crucifixion and that the tomb
was empty.

Historical Accuracy of Luke At one time, scholars did not view Luke's
historical accounts in his Gospel and Acts as accurate. There appeared to
be no evidence for several cities, persons, and locations that he named in
his works. However, archaeological advances have revealed that Luke was a
very accurate historian and the two books he has authored remain accurate
documents of history.

One of the greatest archaeologists is the late Sir William Ramsay. He
studied under the famous liberal German historical schools in the
mid-nineteenth century. Known for its scholarship, this school taught that
the New Testament was not a historical document. With this premise, Ramsay
investigated biblical claims as he searched through Asia Minor. What he
discovered caused him to reverse his initial view. He wrote:

I began with a mind unfavorable to it [Acts], for the ingenuity and
apparent completeness of the Tubingen theory had at one time quite
convinced me. It did not then in my line of life to investigate the subject
minutely; but more recently I found myself often brought into contact with
the Book of Acts as an authority for the topography, antiquities, and
society of Asia Minor. It was gradually borne in upon me that in various
details the narrative showed marvelous truth.{6}

Luke's accuracy is demonstrated by the fact that he names key historical
figures in the correct time sequence as well as correct titles to
government officials in various areas: Thessalonica, politarchs; Ephesus,
temple wardens; Cyprus, proconsul; and Malta, the first man of the island.

In Luke's announcement of Jesus' public ministry (Luke 3:1), he mentions,
"Lysanius tetrarch of Abilene." Scholars questioned Luke's credibility
since the only Lysanius known for centuries was a ruler of Chalcis who
ruled from 40-36 B.C. However an inscription dating to be in the time of
Tiberius, who ruled from 14-37 A.D., was found recording a temple
dedication which names Lysanius as the "tetrarch of Abila" near Damascus.
This matches well with Luke's account.

In Acts 18:12-17, Paul was brought before Gallio, the proconsul of Achaea.
Once again archaeology confirms this account. At Delphi an inscription of a
letter from Emperor Claudius was discovered. In it he states, "Lucius
Junios Gallio, my friend, and the proconsul of Achaia . . ."{7} Historians
date the inscription to 52 A.D. which corresponds to the time of the
apostle's stay in 51.

In Acts 19:22 and Romans 16:23, Erastus, a coworker of Paul, is named the
Corinthian city treasurer. Archaeologists excavating a Corinthian theatre
in 1928 discovered an inscription. It reads, "Erastus in return for his
aedilship laid the pavement at his own expense." The pavement was laid in
50 A.D. The designation of treasurer describes the work of a Corinthian
aedile.

In Acts 28:7, Luke gives Publius, the chief man on the island of Malta, the
title, "first man of the island." Scholars questioned this strange title
and deemed it unhistorical. Inscriptions have recently been discovered on
the island that indeed gives Publius the title of "first man."

"In all, Luke names thirty-two countries, fifty-four cities, and nine
islands without error."{8} A. N. Sherwin-White states, "For Acts the
confirmation of historicity is overwhelming. . . . Any attempt to reject
its basic historicity must now appear absurd. Roman historians have long
taken it for granted."{9}

The Shroud of Turin The Gospels record that after His crucifixion Jesus was
wrapped in a long linen cloth and placed in the tomb (Matt. 27:59). John
records that when Peter investigated the empty tomb, he found the burial
cloth folded neatly next to where Christ once laid (20:6-7).

A linen shroud called the Shroud of Turin, on display at the Vatican, has
been claimed to be that burial cloth. It is 14.25 feet long and 3.5 feet
wide. On it is an image with pierced wrists and ankles believed to be that
of Christ.

The shroud first appeared for public display sometime after 1357 in Lirey,
France. A knight named Geoffrey de Charny brought the shroud to France. In
1453 de Charny's granddaughter gave the shroud to the Duke of Savoy who
then in 1578 brought it to Turin, Italy. In 1983, it was willed to the
Vatican.

In 1898, Secondo Pia photographed the shroud and believed the image was a
negative image like that of a photograph. This added to the mystery of the
shroud since photography had not been invented during medieval times. In
1973 a group of experts confirmed the fact that no pigment of paint was
found even under magnification. For many, this was proof of the shroud's
authenticity.

The most extensive study was undertaken in 1977. An international team of
Swiss, American, and Italian scientist studied the shroud for five days at
the Savoy Royal Palace at Turin. They used six tons of equipment and 2.5
million dollars for their research. It has been one of the most intensely
studied artifacts of all time.

The study could not determine the authenticity of the fabric. Experiments
that followed proved the image contained blood as well as aragonite, a
particular calcium carbonate that is found in Jerusalem's first century
tombs. Swiss criminologist Max Frei found forty-eight samples of pollen, of
which seven could have come from plants in Palestine. The weave of the
cloth was herringbone twill, a style that existed in ancient times.

Although these findings supported the authenticity of the shroud, other
findings testified otherwise. In 1987, the shroud was carbon 14 tested to
verify its date. Laboratories in Oxford, Zurich, and the University of
Arizona tested the cloth. The result indicated a fourteenth century date
for the shroud. This conclusion continues to be challenged and future tests
are sure to follow. Another problem is that coins minted by Pontius Pilate
were placed over the eyes of the figure. This was not a Jewish custom, nor
does it seem likely that Joseph of Arimathea or Nicodemus would have placed
on Jesus' eyes a coin with the image of the leader who condemned him.

Despite the fourteenth century date, scientists are still unable to explain
how the negative image was created. The shroud remains a mystery as well as
a lesson for us as believers that we should not put our faith in mysterious
articles.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Notes

1. See "Authority of the Bible".

2. Josephus, Book 18, Chapter 3:3

3. Tacitus, Annals, 15.44

4. Julius Africanus, Chronography, 18:1.

5. Ibid.

6. William Ramsay, St. Paul the Traveler and the Roman Citizen (Grand
Rapids, MI: Baker Books, 1982), 8.

7. John McRay, Archaeology and the New Testament (Grand Rapids, MI.: Baker
Books, 1991), 227.

8. Norman Geisler, Baker Encyclopedia of Apologetics (Grand Rapids, MI.:
Baker Books, 1999), 47.

9. A. N. Sherwin-White, Roman Society and Roman Law in the New Testament
(Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1963), 189.

©2000 Probe Ministries.


==

>describes how jesus had to ORDER judas to pretend to betray him to the priests, so he could be victimized and APPEAR to fulfill
>some sort of prophecy.
>
> Not very godlike behavior.
>
> In any case, unless they lived once, but are dead now, let these "gods" appear to all of mankind and prove their existences and
> powers, and let man know what they want.
>
>
> If they can't do that, then forget it - it's not real.
>
>


-----------------
www.Newsgroup-Binaries.com - *Completion*Retention*Speed*
Access your favorite newsgroups from home or on the road
-----------------

"St. Jockofgrapes" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Kurt Gavin" > wrote in message
> thlink.net...
>>
>> "St. Jockofgrapes" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "Kurt Gavin" > wrote in message
>>> nk.net...
>>>> Personally, I don't care much for all this "love" talk, coming from the
>>>> myth book of an institution that has a history of ignorance, murder and
>>>> terror.
>>>>
>>>> If the gods yahweh and jesus are real, then let them appear, prove
>>>> their existences and powers, and let man know what they want.
>>>>
>>>> If they can't do that, then forget it - it's not real. <== ALREADY
>>>> HAVE!
>>
>> No they haven't - the yarns about yahweh and jesus appearing are very
>> phoney. The book of judas <== false book. (-:
>
> ==
> Archaeology and the New Testament Written by Patrick Zukeran
>
> There is an ongoing debate among scholars regarding the historical
> accuracy
> of the Bible. Some feel that the Bible is a fictitious work and should be
> read as a work of literary fiction. Others feel it is an accurate
> historical work divinely inspired by God. Archaeology has played a major
> role in determining the trustworthiness of the Bible. In a previous
> article, we discussed archaeological confirmations of the Old Testament.
> In
> this one, we will look at the archaeological discoveries that have
> confirmed the historical accuracy of the New Testament. There is a great
> deal of evidence outside of the Bible that confirms the account of Jesus
> as
> written in the Gospels.
>
> It is important to realize, however, that it is unrealistic to expect
> archaeology to back up every event and place in the New Testament. Our
> perspective is to look for what evidence exists and see whether or not it
> corresponds with the New Testament.
>
> Historical Confirmation of Jesus The first evidence comes from the four
> Gospels which, themselves, are proven to be accurate.{1} Outside the
> biblical text are several witnesses as well. Jewish historian Josephus (37
> A.D.-100 A.D.) recorded the history of the Jewish people in Palestine from
> 70 A.D. to 100 A.D. In his work Antiquities, he states: Now there was
> about
> this time, Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he
> was
> a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with
> pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the
> gentiles. He was the Christ and when Pilate, at the suggestion of the
> principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved
> him at the first did not forsake him. For he appeared alive again the
> third
> day, as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other
> wonderful things concerning him; and the tribe of Christians, so named
> from
> him, are not extinct to this day.{2}
>
> Although he mentions Jesus in a sarcastic way, Josephus confirms the facts
> that Jesus did do many great miracles, drew a following, was crucified,
> and
> was proclaimed alive on the third day.
>
> Pliny the Younger, Emperor of Bythynia in northwestern Turkey, writing to
> Emperor Trajan in 112 A.D. writes:
>
> They were in the habit of meeting on a certain fixed day before it was
> light, when they sang an anthem to Christ as God, and bound themselves by
> a
> solemn oath not to commit any wicked deed, but to abstain from all fraud,
> theft and adultery, never to break their word, or deny a trust when called
> upon to honor it; after which it was their custom to separate, and then
> meet again to partake of food, but ordinary and innocent kind.
>
> One of the most important Romans historians is Tacitus. In 115 A.D. he
> recorded Nero's persecution of the Christians, in the process of which he
> wrote the following:
>
> Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty
> during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators,
> Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the
> moment, again broke out not only in Judea, . . . but even in Rome.{3}
>
> There are over 39 extra-biblical sources that attest to over one hundred
> facts regarding the life and teachings of Jesus.
>
> Accuracy of the Gospels The accuracy of the Gospels has been supported by
> archaeology. The names of many of the Israelite cities, events, and people
> described in them have now been located. Here are a few examples.
>
> The Gospels mention four neighboring and well-populated coastal cities
> along the Sea of Galilee: Capernaum, Bethsaida, Chorazin, and Tiberias.
> Jesus performed many miracles in the first three cities. Despite this
> testimony, these cities rejected Jesus and therefore were cursed by Him
> (Matt. 11:20-24; Luke 10:12-16). These cities eventually disappeared from
> history and their locations remained missing for centuries. Their demise
> fulfills the prophetic condemnation of Jesus.
>
> Only recently has archaeology recovered their possible locations. Tell Hum
> is believed to be Capernaum. (A "tell" is a mound or elevated land that
> has
> arisen by repeated and long-term rebuilding of the same site. Layers of
> civilizations can be found at different strata). The locations of
> Bethsaida
> and Chorazin still remain unconfirmed, but the present site at a tell 1.5
> miles north of the Galilean shoreline is believed to be Bethsaida, while
> Tell Khirbet Kerezah, 2.5 miles northwest of Capernaum, is thought to be
> Chorazin.
>
> Matthew 2 states that Jesus was born during the reign of Herod. Upon
> hearing that a king had been born, the frightened Herod ordered all
> children under the age of two to be killed. His slaughter of innocents is
> consistent with the historical facts that describe his character. Herod
> was
> suspicious of anyone whom he thought may take his throne. His list of
> victims included one of his ten wives, who was his favorite, three of his
> own sons, a high priest, an ex-king, and two of his sister's husbands.
> Thus, his brutality portrayed in Matthew is consistent with his
> description
> in ancient history.
>
> John's accuracy has also been attested to by recent discoveries. In John
> 5:1-15 Jesus heals a man at the Pool of Bethesda. John describes the pool
> as having five porticoes. This site had long been in dispute until
> recently. Forty feet underground, archaeologists discovered a pool with
> five porticoes, and the description of the surrounding area matches John's
> description. In 9:7 John mentions another long disputed site, the Pool of
> Siloam. However, this pool was also discovered in 1897, upholding the
> accuracy of John.
>
> Evidence for Pontius Pilate, the governor who presided over the trial of
> Jesus, was discovered in Caesarea Maritama. In 1961, an Italian
> archaeologist named Antonio Frova uncovered a fragment of a plaque that
> was
> used as a section of steps leading to the Caesarea Theater. The
> inscription, written in Latin, contained the phrase, "Pontius Pilatus,
> Prefect of Judea has dedicated to the people of Caesarea a temple in honor
> of Tiberius." This temple is dedicated to the Emperor Tiberius who reigned
> from 14-37 A.D. This fits well chronologically with the New Testament
> which
> records that Pilot ruled as procurator from 26-36 A.D. Tacitus, a Roman
> historian of the first century, also confirms the New Testament
> designation
> of Pilate. He writes, "Christus, from whom the name had its origin,
> suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of
> one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus. . . ."
>
> Confirmation Regarding the Crucifixion All four Gospels give details of
> the
> crucifixion of Christ. Their accurate portrayal of this Roman practice has
> been confirmed by archaeology. In 1968, a gravesite in the city of
> Jerusalem was uncovered containing thirty- five bodies. Each of the men
> had
> died a brutal death which historians believe was the result of their
> involvement in the Jewish revolt against Rome in 70 A.D.
>
> The inscription identified one individual as Yohan Ben Ha'galgol. Studies
> of the bones performed by osteologists and doctors from the Hadassah
> Medical School determined the man was twenty-eight years old, stood five
>feet six inches, and had some slight facial defects due to a cleft right
> palate.
>
> What intrigued archaeologists were the evidences that this man had been
> crucified in a manner resembling the crucifixion of Christ. A seven-inch
> nail had been driven through both feet, which were turned outward so the
> nail could be hammered inside the Achilles tendon.
>
> Archaeologists also discovered that nails had been driven through his
> lower
> forearms. A victim of a crucifixion would have to raise and lower his body
> in order to breathe. To do this, he needed to push up on his pierced feet
> and pull up with his arms. Yohan's upper arms were smoothly worn,
> indicating this movement.
>
> John records that in order to expedite the death of a prisoner,
> executioners broke the legs of the victim so that he could not lift
> himself
> up by pushing with his feet (19:31-33). Yohan's legs were found crushed by
> a blow, breaking them below the knee. The Dead Sea Scrolls tell that both
> Jews and Romans abhorred crucifixion due to its cruelty and humiliation.
> The scrolls also state it was a punishment reserved for slaves and any who
> challenged the ruling powers of Rome. This explains why Pilate chose
> crucifixion as the penalty for Jesus.
>
> Relating to the crucifixion, in 1878 a stone slab was found in Nazareth
> with a decree from Emperor Claudius who reigned from 41-54 A.D. It stated
> that graves must not be disturbed nor bodies to be removed. The punishment
> on other decrees is a fine but this one threatens death and comes very
> close to the time of the resurrection. This was probably due to Claudius
> investigating the riots of 49 A.D. He had certainly heard of the
> resurrection and did not want any similar incidents. This decree was
> probably made in connection with the Apostles' preaching of Jesus'
> resurrection and the Jewish argument that the body had been stolen.
>
> Historian Thallus wrote in 52 A.D. Although none of his texts remain, his
> work is cited by Julius Africanus' work, Chronography. Quoting Thallus on
> the crucifixion of Christ, Africanus states, "On the whole world, there
> pressed a most fearful darkness, and the rocks were rent by an earthquake,
> and many places in Judea and other districts were thrown down."{4} Thallus
> calls this darkness, "as appears to me without reason, an eclipse of the
> sun."{5}
>
> All the discoveries made are consistent with the details in the
> crucifixion
> account given by the writers of the Gospels. These facts lend indirect
> support for the biblical accounts of Jesus' crucifixion and that the tomb
> was empty.
>
> Historical Accuracy of Luke At one time, scholars did not view Luke's
> historical accounts in his Gospel and Acts as accurate. There appeared to
> be no evidence for several cities, persons, and locations that he named in
> his works. However, archaeological advances have revealed that Luke was a
> very accurate historian and the two books he has authored remain accurate
> documents of history.
>
> One of the greatest archaeologists is the late Sir William Ramsay. He
> studied under the famous liberal German historical schools in the
> mid-nineteenth century. Known for its scholarship, this school taught that
> the New Testament was not a historical document. With this premise, Ramsay
> investigated biblical claims as he searched through Asia Minor. What he
> discovered caused him to reverse his initial view. He wrote:
>
> I began with a mind unfavorable to it [Acts], for the ingenuity and
> apparent completeness of the Tubingen theory had at one time quite
> convinced me. It did not then in my line of life to investigate the
> subject
> minutely; but more recently I found myself often brought into contact with
> the Book of Acts as an authority for the topography, antiquities, and
> society of Asia Minor. It was gradually borne in upon me that in various
> details the narrative showed marvelous truth.{6}
>
> Luke's accuracy is demonstrated by the fact that he names key historical
> figures in the correct time sequence as well as correct titles to
> government officials in various areas: Thessalonica, politarchs; Ephesus,
> temple wardens; Cyprus, proconsul; and Malta, the first man of the island.
>
> In Luke's announcement of Jesus' public ministry (Luke 3:1), he mentions,
> "Lysanius tetrarch of Abilene." Scholars questioned Luke's credibility
> since the only Lysanius known for centuries was a ruler of Chalcis who
> ruled from 40-36 B.C. However an inscription dating to be in the time of
> Tiberius, who ruled from 14-37 A.D., was found recording a temple
> dedication which names Lysanius as the "tetrarch of Abila" near Damascus.
> This matches well with Luke's account.
>
> In Acts 18:12-17, Paul was brought before Gallio, the proconsul of Achaea.
> Once again archaeology confirms this account. At Delphi an inscription of
> a
> letter from Emperor Claudius was discovered. In it he states, "Lucius
> Junios Gallio, my friend, and the proconsul of Achaia . . ."{7} Historians
> date the inscription to 52 A.D. which corresponds to the time of the
> apostle's stay in 51.
>
> In Acts 19:22 and Romans 16:23, Erastus, a coworker of Paul, is named the
> Corinthian city treasurer. Archaeologists excavating a Corinthian theatre
> in 1928 discovered an inscription. It reads, "Erastus in return for his
> aedilship laid the pavement at his own expense." The pavement was laid in
> 50 A.D. The designation of treasurer describes the work of a Corinthian
> aedile.
>
> In Acts 28:7, Luke gives Publius, the chief man on the island of Malta,
> the
> title, "first man of the island." Scholars questioned this strange title
> and deemed it unhistorical. Inscriptions have recently been discovered on
> the island that indeed gives Publius the title of "first man."
>
> "In all, Luke names thirty-two countries, fifty-four cities, and nine
> islands without error."{8} A. N. Sherwin-White states, "For Acts the
> confirmation of historicity is overwhelming. . . . Any attempt to reject
> its basic historicity must now appear absurd. Roman historians have long
> taken it for granted."{9}
>
> The Shroud of Turin The Gospels record that after His crucifixion Jesus
> was
> wrapped in a long linen cloth and placed in the tomb (Matt. 27:59). John
> records that when Peter investigated the empty tomb, he found the burial
> cloth folded neatly next to where Christ once laid (20:6-7).
>
> A linen shroud called the Shroud of Turin, on display at the Vatican, has
> been claimed to be that burial cloth. It is 14.25 feet long and 3.5 feet
> wide. On it is an image with pierced wrists and ankles believed to be that
> of Christ.
>
> The shroud first appeared for public display sometime after 1357 in Lirey,
> France. A knight named Geoffrey de Charny brought the shroud to France. In
> 1453 de Charny's granddaughter gave the shroud to the Duke of Savoy who
> then in 1578 brought it to Turin, Italy. In 1983, it was willed to the
> Vatican.
>
> In 1898, Secondo Pia photographed the shroud and believed the image was a
> negative image like that of a photograph. This added to the mystery of the
> shroud since photography had not been invented during medieval times. In
> 1973 a group of experts confirmed the fact that no pigment of paint was
> found even under magnification. For many, this was proof of the shroud's
> authenticity.
>
> The most extensive study was undertaken in 1977. An international team of
> Swiss, American, and Italian scientist studied the shroud for five days at
> the Savoy Royal Palace at Turin. They used six tons of equipment and 2.5
> million dollars for their research. It has been one of the most intensely
> studied artifacts of all time.
>
> The study could not determine the authenticity of the fabric. Experiments
> that followed proved the image contained blood as well as aragonite, a
> particular calcium carbonate that is found in Jerusalem's first century
> tombs. Swiss criminologist Max Frei found forty-eight samples of pollen,
> of
> which seven could have come from plants in Palestine. The weave of the
> cloth was herringbone twill, a style that existed in ancient times.
>
> Although these findings supported the authenticity of the shroud, other
> findings testified otherwise. In 1987, the shroud was carbon 14 tested to
> verify its date. Laboratories in Oxford, Zurich, and the University of
> Arizona tested the cloth. The result indicated a fourteenth century date
> for the shroud. This conclusion continues to be challenged and future
> tests
> are sure to follow. Another problem is that coins minted by Pontius Pilate
> were placed over the eyes of the figure. This was not a Jewish custom, nor
> does it seem likely that Joseph of Arimathea or Nicodemus would have
> placed
> on Jesus' eyes a coin with the image of the leader who condemned him.
>
> Despite the fourteenth century date, scientists are still unable to
> explain
> how the negative image was created. The shroud remains a mystery as well
> as
> a lesson for us as believers that we should not put our faith in
> mysterious
> articles.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Notes
>
> 1. See "Authority of the Bible".
>
> 2. Josephus, Book 18, Chapter 3:3
>
> 3. Tacitus, Annals, 15.44
>
> 4. Julius Africanus, Chronography, 18:1.
>
> 5. Ibid.
>
> 6. William Ramsay, St. Paul the Traveler and the Roman Citizen (Grand
> Rapids, MI: Baker Books, 1982), 8.
>
> 7. John McRay, Archaeology and the New Testament (Grand Rapids, MI.: Baker
> Books, 1991), 227.
>
> 8. Norman Geisler, Baker Encyclopedia of Apologetics (Grand Rapids, MI.:
> Baker Books, 1999), 47.
>
> 9. A. N. Sherwin-White, Roman Society and Roman Law in the New Testament
> (Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1963), 189.
>
> ©2000 Probe Ministries.
>
>
> ==
>
>>describes how jesus had to ORDER judas to pretend to betray him to the
>>priests, so he could be victimized and APPEAR to fulfill some sort of
>>prophecy.
>>
>> Not very godlike behavior.
>>
>> In any case, unless they lived once, but are dead now, let these "gods"
>> appear to all of mankind and prove their existences and powers, and let
>> man know what they want.
>>
>>
>> If they can't do that, then forget it - it's not real.


<snip nonsense>

Here's a better source: http://www.evilbible.com/

In any case, unless they lived once, but are dead now, let these "gods"
appear to all of mankind and prove their existences and
powers, and let man know what they want.


If they can't do that, then forget it - it's not real.

Here's an example of your "god's" law pertaining to selling your daughter
into sexual slavery.

(Exodus 21:7-11 NLT) When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will
not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please
the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is
not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the
contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry
his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her
as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he
may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife.
If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman
without making any payment.

In article >,
says...
> "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's
> clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves." (Matthew 7:15 RSV)
>

Chung and his two pound diet again...

St. Jockofgrapes > wrote:

>"Kurt Gavin" > wrote in message
rthlink.net...
>>
>> "St. Jockofgrapes" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "Kurt Gavin" > wrote in message
>>> nk.net...
>>>> Personally, I don't care much for all this "love" talk, coming from the
>>>> myth book of an institution that has a history of
>>>> ignorance, murder and terror.
>>>>
>>>> If the gods yahweh and jesus are real, then let them appear, prove their
>>>> existences and powers, and let man know what they want.
>>>>
>>>> If they can't do that, then forget it - it's not real. <== ALREADY HAVE!
>>
>> No they haven't - the yarns about yahweh and jesus appearing are very
>> phoney. The book of judas <== false book. (-:
>
> ==
>Archaeology and the New Testament Written by Patrick Zukeran
>
>There is an ongoing debate among scholars regarding the historical accuracy
>of the Bible. Some feel that the Bible is a fictitious work and should be
>read as a work of literary fiction. Others feel it is an accurate
>h

More screed, how boring.

--
Supreme Leader of the Brainwashed Followers of Art Deco

"Still suffering from reading comprehension problems, Deco?
The section is clearly attributed to Art Deco, not to you, Deco."
-- Dr. David Tholen

"Who is "David Tholen", Daedalus? Still suffering from
attribution problems?"
-- Dr. David Tholen

Flying Rat, board-certified Earthquack trainer > wrote:

>In article >,
says...
>> "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's
>> clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves." (Matthew 7:15 RSV)
>>
>
>Chung and his two pound diet again...

Chung and his SLICBM attack on Teheran...

--
Supreme Leader of the Brainwashed Followers of Art Deco

"Still suffering from reading comprehension problems, Deco?
The section is clearly attributed to Art Deco, not to you, Deco."
-- Dr. David Tholen

"Who is "David Tholen", Daedalus? Still suffering from
attribution problems?"
-- Dr. David Tholen

On Mon, 09 Apr 2007 15:43:35 -0600, Art Deco > wrote:

>St. Jockofgrapes > wrote:
>
>>"Kurt Gavin" > wrote in message
arthlink.net...
>>>
>>> "St. Jockofgrapes" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> "Kurt Gavin" > wrote in message
>>>> nk.net...
>>>>> Personally, I don't care much for all this "love" talk, coming from the
>>>>> myth book of an institution that has a history of
>>>>> ignorance, murder and terror.
>>>>>
>>>>> If the gods yahweh and jesus are real, then let them appear, prove their
>>>>> existences and powers, and let man know what they want.
>>>>>
>>>>> If they can't do that, then forget it - it's not real. <== ALREADY HAVE!
>>>
>>> No they haven't - the yarns about yahweh and jesus appearing are very
>>> phoney. The book of judas <== false book. (-:
>>
>> ==
>>Archaeology and the New Testament Written by Patrick Zukeran
>>
>>There is an ongoing debate among scholars regarding the historical accuracy
>>of the Bible. Some feel that the Bible is a fictitious work and should be
>>read as a work of literary fiction. Others feel it is an accurate
>>h
>
>More screed, how boring.

It's all he has to offer.

--
-------------------------
Nothing fails like prayer

"She's So Fat ..." > wrote in message
.. .

>>
>> No they haven't - the yarns about yahweh and jesus appearing are very
>> phoney. The book of judas <== False book.

No, fathead, you're lying.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...toryId=5327692

April 6, 2006 · Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John make up the four accepted
Gospels of the Christian New Testament. Now a new gospel has been unveiled
by the National Geographic Society -- one that focuses on the story of Judas
Iscariot.
To most Christians, Judas is seen as a traitor, the disciple who betrayed
Jesus to the Romans for 30 pieces of silver. But a newly restored papyrus
document dating to the 2nd century AD portrays a very different man. Judas
is shown as Jesus' best friend, asked by Jesus himself to betray his
identity to fulfill the prophecy and liberate his soul to ascend to heaven.

The story of how this gospel was found, and the international effort to
authenticate, conserve, and translate it, has been chronicled in the new
book by Herb Krosney called The Lost Gospel.

The leather-bound papyrus codex, believed to have been translated from the
original ancient Greek to the Coptic language around 300 AD, was found in
the 1970s in a cave in the desert near El Minya, Egypt. It then circulated
among antiquities traders, moving from Egypt to Europe to the United States.
The codex languished in a safe deposit box on Long Island, N.Y., for 16
years before being bought in 2000 by Zurich-based antiquities dealer Frieda
Nussberger-Tchacos.

When attempts to resell the manuscript fell through, Tchacos -- alarmed by
the codex’s rapidly deteriorating state -- transferred it to the Maecenas
Foundation for Ancient Art in Basel, Switzerland, in February 2001 for
conservation and translation.

Rodolphe Kasser, one of the world’s leading Coptic scholars, was recruited
to reconstruct the manuscript and to transcribe and translate the text. The
66-page manuscript contains not only the Gospel of Judas but also a text
titled James (also known as First Apocalypse of James), a letter of Peter to
Philip and a fragment of a fourth text scholars for now are calling the Book
of Allogenes.

The National Geographic Society unveiled the only known copy of the Gospel
of Judas on Thursday. The full story of the discovery and restoration of the
Gospel of Judas can be seen on the National Geographic Channel. The first
showing is Sunday, April 9, at 8 PM ET.

Additionally, the Gospel of Judas is featured on the May cover of National
Geographic magazine. Pages of the codex will be on display at the National
Geographic Society, and will eventually reside at the Coptic Museum in
Cairo, Egypt.

http://shop.nationalgeographic.com/p.../3051/114.html
The Gospel of Judas Book (from National Geographic)

Published for the first time since it was condemned as heresy by early
church leaders, the Gospel of Judas is told from the perspective of Judas
Iscariot, history's ultimate traitor. However, the Judas that emerges in
this volume is a hero, not a villain. The gospel has been translated from
its original Coptic into clear prose and is accompanied by commentary that
explains its fascinating history in the context of the early church,
offering a whole new way of understanding the message of Jesus Christ.

Editorial Reviews

Newsday
"The long journey of the codex that ended up…at the Citibank…began in caves
along the Nile, according to…The Lost Gospel."

Review
“The story of the gospel’s rediscovery and salvation [The Lost Gospel by
Herbert Krosney] reads like a Hollywood mystery.” –The Boston Globe

“The long journey of the codex that ended up in box No. 395 at the
Citibank…began in the caves along the Nile…when peasants discovered
leather-bound papyrus written in an indecipherable language, according to
Herbert Krosney, author of The Lost Gospel.” –Newsday

Jesus says to Judas: “Lift up your eyes and look at the cloud and the light
within it and the stars surrounding it. The star that leads the way is your
star.” –from The Gospel of Judas

“(The Gospel of Judas) is one of the greatest historical discoveries of the
twentieth century. It rivals the finding of the Dead Sea Scrolls or the
Gnostic Gospels of Nag Hammadi.” –Bart D. Ehrman, author of Lost
Christianities

“The discovery of the Gospel of Judas is astonishing.” –Elaine Pagels

“The secret account of the revelation that Jesus spoke in conversation with
Judas Iscariot…” –The Gospel of Judas

Book Description
For 1,600 years its message lay hidden. When the bound papyrus pages of this
lost gospel finally reached scholars who could unlock its meaning, they were
astounded. Here was a gospel that had not been seen since the early days of
Christianity, and which few experts had even thought existed–a gospel told
from the perspective of Judas Iscariot, history’s ultimate traitor. And far
from being a villain, the Judas that emerges in its pages is a hero.

In this radical reinterpretation, Jesus asks Judas to betray him. In
contrast to the New Testament Gospels, Judas Iscariot is presented as a role
model for all those who wish to be disciples of Jesus. He is the one apostle
who truly understands Jesus.

This volume is the first publication of the remarkable gospel since it was
condemned as heresy by early Church leaders, most notably by St. Irenaeus,
in 180. Hidden away in a cavern in Middle Egypt, the codex (or book)
containing the gospel was discovered by farmers in the 1970s. In the
intervening years the papyrus codex was bought and sold by antiquities
traders, hidden away, and carried across three continents, all the while
suffering damage that reduced much of it to fragments. In 2001, it finally
found its way into the hands of a team of experts who would painstakingly
reassemble and restore it.

The Gospel of Judas has been translated from its original Coptic in clear
prose, and is accompanied by commentary that explains its fascinating
history in the context of the early Church, offering a whole new way of
understanding the message of Jesus Christ.

About the Author
Rodolphe Kasser, Ph.D., a professor emeritus on the Faculty of Arts at the
University of Geneva, is one of the world’s leading Coptologists. He has
organized the restoration and prepared the editio princeps of Codex Tchacos,
containing the Gospel of Judas and three other Coptic Gnostic texts.

Marvin Meyer, Ph.D., Griset Professor of Bible and Christian Studies at
Chapman University and Director of the Chapman University Albert Schweitzer
Institute, is one of the foremost scholars on Gnosticism, the Nag Hammadi
Library and texts about Jesus outside the New Testament.

Gregor Wurst, Ph.D., is professor of Ecclesiastical History and Patristics
at the University of Augsburg, Germany.

Bart D. Ehrman, Ph.D., is the James A. Gray Distinguished Professor and
Chair of the Department of Religious Studies, University of North Carolina
at Chapel Hill, and an expert on early Christianity.



>>describes how jesus had to ORDER judas to pretend to betray him to the
>>priests, so he could be victimized and APPEAR to fulfill
>>some sort of prophecy.
>>
>> Not very godlike behavior.
>>
>> In any case, unless they lived once, but are dead now, let these "gods"
>> appear to all of mankind and prove their existences and
>> powers, and let man know what they want.
>>
>>
>> If they can't do that, then forget it - it's not real.
>>

St. Jockofgrapes wrote:

> Archaeology and the New Testament Written by Patrick Zukeran

> Thallus
> calls this darkness, "as appears to me without reason, an eclipse of the
> sun."{5}
>
> All the discoveries made are consistent with the details in the crucifixion
> account given by the writers of the Gospels.

Your boy Zukeran is either stupid, or you're stupid, or you think
everyone else is stupid.

Thallus, whoever he was, whenever he wrote -- the 52 AD business is
another Zukeran lie - if he said anything, said the darkness was an
eclipse. The magic fable does not have it's darkness be an eclipse.

So, if Thallus is evidence of anything, he's evidence that the magic
Jesus fable is a lie.


Dirk Hartog
---------------------
This is the view I have held up to now, though I can modify it if you
disagree; only please give me your reasons if you do. I know I should
bow to your authority, but on an important question like this I would
rather yield to a reasoned argument than to authority alone.
[Pliny the Younger, Letters, 1.20 ]

"Kurt Gavin" > wrote in message hlink.net...
>
> "St. Jockofgrapes" > wrote in message ...
>>
>> "Kurt Gavin" > wrote in message thlink.net...
>>>
>>> "St. Jockofgrapes" > wrote in message ...
>>>>
>>>> "Kurt Gavin" > wrote in message nk.net...
>>>>> Personally, I don't care much for all this "love" talk, coming from the myth book of an institution that has a history of
>>>>> ignorance, murder and terror.
>>>>>
>>>>> If the gods yahweh and jesus are real, then let them appear, prove their existences and powers, and let man know what they
>>>>> want.
>>>>>
>>>>> If they can't do that, then forget it - it's not real. <== ALREADY HAVE!
>>>
>>> No they haven't - the yarns about yahweh and jesus appearing are very phoney. The book of judas <== false book. (-:
>>
>> ==
>> Archaeology and the New Testament Written by Patrick Zukeran
>>
>> There is an ongoing debate among scholars regarding the historical accuracy
>> of the Bible. Some feel that the Bible is a fictitious work and should be
>> read as a work of literary fiction. Others feel it is an accurate
>> historical work divinely inspired by God. Archaeology has played a major
>> role in determining the trustworthiness of the Bible. In a previous
>> article, we discussed archaeological confirmations of the Old Testament. In
>> this one, we will look at the archaeological discoveries that have
>> confirmed the historical accuracy of the New Testament. There is a great
>> deal of evidence outside of the Bible that confirms the account of Jesus as
>> written in the Gospels.
>>
>> It is important to realize, however, that it is unrealistic to expect
>> archaeology to back up every event and place in the New Testament. Our
>> perspective is to look for what evidence exists and see whether or not it
>> corresponds with the New Testament.
>>
>> Historical Confirmation of Jesus The first evidence comes from the four
>> Gospels which, themselves, are proven to be accurate.{1} Outside the
>> biblical text are several witnesses as well. Jewish historian Josephus (37
>> A.D.-100 A.D.) recorded the history of the Jewish people in Palestine from
>> 70 A.D. to 100 A.D. In his work Antiquities, he states: Now there was about
>> this time, Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was
>> a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with
>> pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the
>> gentiles. He was the Christ and when Pilate, at the suggestion of the
>> principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved
>> him at the first did not forsake him. For he appeared alive again the third
>> day, as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other
>> wonderful things concerning him; and the tribe of Christians, so named from
>> him, are not extinct to this day.{2}
>>
>> Although he mentions Jesus in a sarcastic way, Josephus confirms the facts
>> that Jesus did do many great miracles, drew a following, was crucified, and
>> was proclaimed alive on the third day.
>>
>> Pliny the Younger, Emperor of Bythynia in northwestern Turkey, writing to
>> Emperor Trajan in 112 A.D. writes:
>>
>> They were in the habit of meeting on a certain fixed day before it was
>> light, when they sang an anthem to Christ as God, and bound themselves by a
>> solemn oath not to commit any wicked deed, but to abstain from all fraud,
>> theft and adultery, never to break their word, or deny a trust when called
>> upon to honor it; after which it was their custom to separate, and then
>> meet again to partake of food, but ordinary and innocent kind.
>>
>> One of the most important Romans historians is Tacitus. In 115 A.D. he
>> recorded Nero's persecution of the Christians, in the process of which he
>> wrote the following:
>>
>> Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty
>> during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators,
>> Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the
>> moment, again broke out not only in Judea, . . . but even in Rome.{3}
>>
>> There are over 39 extra-biblical sources that attest to over one hundred
>> facts regarding the life and teachings of Jesus.
>>
>> Accuracy of the Gospels The accuracy of the Gospels has been supported by
>> archaeology. The names of many of the Israelite cities, events, and people
>> described in them have now been located. Here are a few examples.
>>
>> The Gospels mention four neighboring and well-populated coastal cities
>> along the Sea of Galilee: Capernaum, Bethsaida, Chorazin, and Tiberias.
>> Jesus performed many miracles in the first three cities. Despite this
>> testimony, these cities rejected Jesus and therefore were cursed by Him
>> (Matt. 11:20-24; Luke 10:12-16). These cities eventually disappeared from
>> history and their locations remained missing for centuries. Their demise
>> fulfills the prophetic condemnation of Jesus.
>>
>> Only recently has archaeology recovered their possible locations. Tell Hum
>> is believed to be Capernaum. (A "tell" is a mound or elevated land that has
>> arisen by repeated and long-term rebuilding of the same site. Layers of
>> civilizations can be found at different strata). The locations of Bethsaida
>> and Chorazin still remain unconfirmed, but the present site at a tell 1.5
>> miles north of the Galilean shoreline is believed to be Bethsaida, while
>> Tell Khirbet Kerezah, 2.5 miles northwest of Capernaum, is thought to be
>> Chorazin.
>>
>> Matthew 2 states that Jesus was born during the reign of Herod. Upon
>> hearing that a king had been born, the frightened Herod ordered all
>> children under the age of two to be killed. His slaughter of innocents is
>> consistent with the historical facts that describe his character. Herod was
>> suspicious of anyone whom he thought may take his throne. His list of
>> victims included one of his ten wives, who was his favorite, three of his
>> own sons, a high priest, an ex-king, and two of his sister's husbands.
>> Thus, his brutality portrayed in Matthew is consistent with his description
>> in ancient history.
>>
>> John's accuracy has also been attested to by recent discoveries. In John
>> 5:1-15 Jesus heals a man at the Pool of Bethesda. John describes the pool
>> as having five porticoes. This site had long been in dispute until
>> recently. Forty feet underground, archaeologists discovered a pool with
>> five porticoes, and the description of the surrounding area matches John's
>> description. In 9:7 John mentions another long disputed site, the Pool of
>> Siloam. However, this pool was also discovered in 1897, upholding the
>> accuracy of John.
>>
>> Evidence for Pontius Pilate, the governor who presided over the trial of
>> Jesus, was discovered in Caesarea Maritama. In 1961, an Italian
>> archaeologist named Antonio Frova uncovered a fragment of a plaque that was
>> used as a section of steps leading to the Caesarea Theater. The
>> inscription, written in Latin, contained the phrase, "Pontius Pilatus,
>> Prefect of Judea has dedicated to the people of Caesarea a temple in honor
>> of Tiberius." This temple is dedicated to the Emperor Tiberius who reigned
>> from 14-37 A.D. This fits well chronologically with the New Testament which
>> records that Pilot ruled as procurator from 26-36 A.D. Tacitus, a Roman
>> historian of the first century, also confirms the New Testament designation
>> of Pilate. He writes, "Christus, from whom the name had its origin,
>> suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of
>> one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus. . . ."
>>
>> Confirmation Regarding the Crucifixion All four Gospels give details of the
>> crucifixion of Christ. Their accurate portrayal of this Roman practice has
>> been confirmed by archaeology. In 1968, a gravesite in the city of
>> Jerusalem was uncovered containing thirty- five bodies. Each of the men had
>> died a brutal death which historians believe was the result of their
>> involvement in the Jewish revolt against Rome in 70 A.D.
>>
>> The inscription identified one individual as Yohan Ben Ha'galgol. Studies
>> of the bones performed by osteologists and doctors from the Hadassah
>> Medical School determined the man was twenty-eight years old, stood five
>>feet six inches, and had some slight facial defects due to a cleft right
>> palate.
>>
>> What intrigued archaeologists were the evidences that this man had been
>> crucified in a manner resembling the crucifixion of Christ. A seven-inch
>> nail had been driven through both feet, which were turned outward so the
>> nail could be hammered inside the Achilles tendon.
>>
>> Archaeologists also discovered that nails had been driven through his lower
>> forearms. A victim of a crucifixion would have to raise and lower his body
>> in order to breathe. To do this, he needed to push up on his pierced feet
>> and pull up with his arms. Yohan's upper arms were smoothly worn,
>> indicating this movement.
>>
>> John records that in order to expedite the death of a prisoner,
>> executioners broke the legs of the victim so that he could not lift himself
>> up by pushing with his feet (19:31-33). Yohan's legs were found crushed by
>> a blow, breaking them below the knee. The Dead Sea Scrolls tell that both
>> Jews and Romans abhorred crucifixion due to its cruelty and humiliation.
>> The scrolls also state it was a punishment reserved for slaves and any who
>> challenged the ruling powers of Rome. This explains why Pilate chose
>> crucifixion as the penalty for Jesus.
>>
>> Relating to the crucifixion, in 1878 a stone slab was found in Nazareth
>> with a decree from Emperor Claudius who reigned from 41-54 A.D. It stated
>> that graves must not be disturbed nor bodies to be removed. The punishment
>> on other decrees is a fine but this one threatens death and comes very
>> close to the time of the resurrection. This was probably due to Claudius
>> investigating the riots of 49 A.D. He had certainly heard of the
>> resurrection and did not want any similar incidents. This decree was
>> probably made in connection with the Apostles' preaching of Jesus'
>> resurrection and the Jewish argument that the body had been stolen.
>>
>> Historian Thallus wrote in 52 A.D. Although none of his texts remain, his
>> work is cited by Julius Africanus' work, Chronography. Quoting Thallus on
>> the crucifixion of Christ, Africanus states, "On the whole world, there
>> pressed a most fearful darkness, and the rocks were rent by an earthquake,
>> and many places in Judea and other districts were thrown down."{4} Thallus
>> calls this darkness, "as appears to me without reason, an eclipse of the
>> sun."{5}
>>
>> All the discoveries made are consistent with the details in the crucifixion
>> account given by the writers of the Gospels. These facts lend indirect
>> support for the biblical accounts of Jesus' crucifixion and that the tomb
>> was empty.
>>
>> Historical Accuracy of Luke At one time, scholars did not view Luke's
>> historical accounts in his Gospel and Acts as accurate. There appeared to
>> be no evidence for several cities, persons, and locations that he named in
>> his works. However, archaeological advances have revealed that Luke was a
>> very accurate historian and the two books he has authored remain accurate
>> documents of history.
>>
>> One of the greatest archaeologists is the late Sir William Ramsay. He
>> studied under the famous liberal German historical schools in the
>> mid-nineteenth century. Known for its scholarship, this school taught that
>> the New Testament was not a historical document. With this premise, Ramsay
>> investigated biblical claims as he searched through Asia Minor. What he
>> discovered caused him to reverse his initial view. He wrote:
>>
>> I began with a mind unfavorable to it [Acts], for the ingenuity and
>> apparent completeness of the Tubingen theory had at one time quite
>> convinced me. It did not then in my line of life to investigate the subject
>> minutely; but more recently I found myself often brought into contact with
>> the Book of Acts as an authority for the topography, antiquities, and
>> society of Asia Minor. It was gradually borne in upon me that in various
>> details the narrative showed marvelous truth.{6}
>>
>> Luke's accuracy is demonstrated by the fact that he names key historical
>> figures in the correct time sequence as well as correct titles to
>> government officials in various areas: Thessalonica, politarchs; Ephesus,
>> temple wardens; Cyprus, proconsul; and Malta, the first man of the island.
>>
>> In Luke's announcement of Jesus' public ministry (Luke 3:1), he mentions,
>> "Lysanius tetrarch of Abilene." Scholars questioned Luke's credibility
>> since the only Lysanius known for centuries was a ruler of Chalcis who
>> ruled from 40-36 B.C. However an inscription dating to be in the time of
>> Tiberius, who ruled from 14-37 A.D., was found recording a temple
>> dedication which names Lysanius as the "tetrarch of Abila" near Damascus.
>> This matches well with Luke's account.
>>
>> In Acts 18:12-17, Paul was brought before Gallio, the proconsul of Achaea.
>> Once again archaeology confirms this account. At Delphi an inscription of a
>> letter from Emperor Claudius was discovered. In it he states, "Lucius
>> Junios Gallio, my friend, and the proconsul of Achaia . . ."{7} Historians
>> date the inscription to 52 A.D. which corresponds to the time of the
>> apostle's stay in 51.
>>
>> In Acts 19:22 and Romans 16:23, Erastus, a coworker of Paul, is named the
>> Corinthian city treasurer. Archaeologists excavating a Corinthian theatre
>> in 1928 discovered an inscription. It reads, "Erastus in return for his
>> aedilship laid the pavement at his own expense." The pavement was laid in
>> 50 A.D. The designation of treasurer describes the work of a Corinthian
>> aedile.
>>
>> In Acts 28:7, Luke gives Publius, the chief man on the island of Malta, the
>> title, "first man of the island." Scholars questioned this strange title
>> and deemed it unhistorical. Inscriptions have recently been discovered on
>> the island that indeed gives Publius the title of "first man."
>>
>> "In all, Luke names thirty-two countries, fifty-four cities, and nine
>> islands without error."{8} A. N. Sherwin-White states, "For Acts the
>> confirmation of historicity is overwhelming. . . . Any attempt to reject
>> its basic historicity must now appear absurd. Roman historians have long
>> taken it for granted."{9}
>>
>> The Shroud of Turin The Gospels record that after His crucifixion Jesus was
>> wrapped in a long linen cloth and placed in the tomb (Matt. 27:59). John
>> records that when Peter investigated the empty tomb, he found the burial
>> cloth folded neatly next to where Christ once laid (20:6-7).
>>
>> A linen shroud called the Shroud of Turin, on display at the Vatican, has
>> been claimed to be that burial cloth. It is 14.25 feet long and 3.5 feet
>> wide. On it is an image with pierced wrists and ankles believed to be that
>> of Christ.
>>
>> The shroud first appeared for public display sometime after 1357 in Lirey,
>> France. A knight named Geoffrey de Charny brought the shroud to France. In
>> 1453 de Charny's granddaughter gave the shroud to the Duke of Savoy who
>> then in 1578 brought it to Turin, Italy. In 1983, it was willed to the
>> Vatican.
>>
>> In 1898, Secondo Pia photographed the shroud and believed the image was a
>> negative image like that of a photograph. This added to the mystery of the
>> shroud since photography had not been invented during medieval times. In
>> 1973 a group of experts confirmed the fact that no pigment of paint was
>> found even under magnification. For many, this was proof of the shroud's
>> authenticity.
>>
>> The most extensive study was undertaken in 1977. An international team of
>> Swiss, American, and Italian scientist studied the shroud for five days at
>> the Savoy Royal Palace at Turin. They used six tons of equipment and 2.5
>> million dollars for their research. It has been one of the most intensely
>> studied artifacts of all time.
>>
>> The study could not determine the authenticity of the fabric. Experiments
>> that followed proved the image contained blood as well as aragonite, a
>> particular calcium carbonate that is found in Jerusalem's first century
>> tombs. Swiss criminologist Max Frei found forty-eight samples of pollen, of
>> which seven could have come from plants in Palestine. The weave of the
>> cloth was herringbone twill, a style that existed in ancient times.
>>
>> Although these findings supported the authenticity of the shroud, other
>> findings testified otherwise. In 1987, the shroud was carbon 14 tested to
>> verify its date. Laboratories in Oxford, Zurich, and the University of
>> Arizona tested the cloth. The result indicated a fourteenth century date
>> for the shroud. This conclusion continues to be challenged and future tests
>> are sure to follow. Another problem is that coins minted by Pontius Pilate
>> were placed over the eyes of the figure. This was not a Jewish custom, nor
>> does it seem likely that Joseph of Arimathea or Nicodemus would have placed
>> on Jesus' eyes a coin with the image of the leader who condemned him.
>>
>> Despite the fourteenth century date, scientists are still unable to explain
>> how the negative image was created. The shroud remains a mystery as well as
>> a lesson for us as believers that we should not put our faith in mysterious
>> articles.
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Notes
>>
>> 1. See "Authority of the Bible".
>>
>> 2. Josephus, Book 18, Chapter 3:3
>>
>> 3. Tacitus, Annals, 15.44
>>
>> 4. Julius Africanus, Chronography, 18:1.
>>
>> 5. Ibid.
>>
>> 6. William Ramsay, St. Paul the Traveler and the Roman Citizen (Grand
>> Rapids, MI: Baker Books, 1982), 8.
>>
>> 7. John McRay, Archaeology and the New Testament (Grand Rapids, MI.: Baker
>> Books, 1991), 227.
>>
>> 8. Norman Geisler, Baker Encyclopedia of Apologetics (Grand Rapids, MI.:
>> Baker Books, 1999), 47.
>>
>> 9. A. N. Sherwin-White, Roman Society and Roman Law in the New Testament
>> (Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1963), 189.
>>
>> ©2000 Probe Ministries.
>>
>>
>> ==
>>
>>>describes how jesus had to ORDER judas to pretend to betray him to the priests, so he could be victimized and APPEAR to fulfill
>>>some sort of prophecy.
>>>
>>> Not very godlike behavior.
>>>
>>> In any case, unless they lived once, but are dead now, let these "gods" appear to all of mankind and prove their existences and
>>> powers, and let man know what they want.
>>>
>>>
>>> If they can't do that, then forget it - it's not real.
>
>
> <snip nonsense>
>
> Here's a better source: http://www.evilbible.com/ <== Nope!

Uninspired, filled with hate, not love, ofers no salvation, etc.
Easily debunked. (-: It's an atheist's excuse to be unaccountable.



-- Sig
"Do not give dogs what is holy; and do not throw your
pearls before swine, lest they trample them under foot and
turn to attack you. "(Matthew 7:6 RSV)
"Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's
clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves." (Matthew 7:15 RSV)
Overview the Bible
http://76.162.173.93/bible-study/=CD-R=ltb-24/
There's no hurry?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrmDWn6awMA
"The best way to drive out the devil, if he will
not yield to texts of Scripture, is to jeer and
flout him, for he cannot bear scorn."
Heaven & Hell
http://76.162.173.93/prophecy/=CD-R=heaven-and-hell/
The Gospel of Matthew
http://76.162.173.93/bible-study/=CD-R=matthew-rv/
A Primer on Prophecy
http://76.162.173.93//prophecy/=CD-R...-101-small-wmv
Born once, die twice. Born twice, die once.
Wisdom of a Lifetime - Audio MP3 Collection -
http://bibleweb.info/ftp/ftp-members-0002.html
The Last (5th) Horseman
http://bibleweb.info/ftp/ftp-members-0003.html
The Facts About Jesus, the Bible & the Afterlife
http://bibleweb.info/ftp/ftp-members-0004.html
The Way - http://john-14-6.com/john-14-6.pdf
A Tribute to THE KING
http://bibleweb.info/public-a-tribute-to-the-king.pdf
How to Spot a Counterfeit
http://76.162.173.93/guest/ar-mp3/ar...ounterfeit.mp3
But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be
false teachers among you. They will secretly bring in destructive heresies,
even denying the Master who bought them, and will bring swift destruction
on themselves (2 Peter 2:1).
Scriptural Christianity
http://76.162.173.93/guest/=CD-R=scr...-christianity/
My Main Collection - http://Bibleweb.Info/
Maranatha!




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In alt.flame.jesus.christ, Art Deco said...

>
> St. Jockofgrapes > wrote:
>
> >"Phÿltêr" > wrote in message
> . ..
> >>>> "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" > wrote in message
> >>>> oups.com...
> >>>>> friend George wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> "Genus"?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> No.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Demons (satan's sockpuppets) are infinitely less than a subspecies.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> May GOD bless you.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Prayerfully in Jesus' ever-lasting love,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Andrew <><
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> >>>>
> >>>> Don't do me any favors. Just the thought of someone believing in some
> >>>> sky pixie (other than the God Tinkerbelle) makes me PUKE!
> >>>>
> >>>> I wasn't responding to you, anyway.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Ordained Minister-Universal Life Church <== by whom!
> >>>> AFJC Photo Archivist <== smut folder
> >>>> DOD#144,000 (the LAST one in) <== I doubt you'll ever
> >>>> get in!
> >>>>
> >>>> "AFJC...We Care" <== about me,
> >>>> mtsel, and Ionly
> >>>
> >>> Unbelief and Its Consequences
> >>
> >> Many lines of cut & paste drivel snipped...
> >>
> >> There won't be any consequences. Your god is as inconsequential as Zeus
> >> or Odin (to name but two).
> >>
> >
> > Phÿltêr - (PHAP) aka "She's So Fat ..." I see U got outta jail for that
> >female
> > impersonation in the park a week ago, huh. (-:
> >
> > UR still looking fer meaning urine life?
>
> Wow, a urine lame. How profound.
> >
> > The Search for Meaning
> >
> > One might well ask what those pursuits are that bridge the existential and
> > the rigorously intellectual? At the center of life lie four questions of
> >origin,
> > meaning, morality, and destiny. How did I come to be? What brings life
>
> Oh lookie, a screedmonkey. Haven't seen one of these for, say, 3 hours.
>
> [screed dumped]

That's a troll named John Loiodice. Plonk him. We have a Group Plonk out
on that ****.

--
St. Jackanapes of Usenet ~ Bearer of The One True Liver ~
Ordained Minister & Holy Saint of The Universal Life Church
-----------------------------------------------------------------
WEBSITE: http://www.jackanapes.ws FORUM: http://www.voy.com/20630/
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Diet with Dr. Chung: http://www.jackanapes.ws/2pdcat.html

In alt.flame.jesus.christ, Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD said...

>
> friend George wrote:
> >
> > "Genus"?
>
> No.
>
> Demons (satan's sockpuppets) are infinitely less than a subspecies.

I thought you didn't sink to name calling? Liar! Cat eating liar!

Diet with Dr. Chung: http://www.jackanapes.ws/2pdcat.html

--
St. Jackanapes of Usenet ~ Bearer of The One True Liver ~
Ordained Minister & Holy Saint of The Universal Life Church
-----------------------------------------------------------------
WEBSITE: http://www.jackanapes.ws FORUM: http://www.voy.com/20630/
-----------------------------------------------------------------

On Apr 9, 9:00 pm, St. Jackanapes > wrote:
> In alt.flame.jesus.christ, Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD said...
>
>
>
> > friend George wrote:
>
> > > "Genus"?
>
> > No.
>
> > Demons (satan's sockpuppets) are infinitely less than a subspecies.
>
> I thought you didn't sink to name calling? Liar! Cat eating liar!
>
> Diet with Dr. Chung:http://www.jackanapes.ws/2pdcat.html

Look! He has cat hair between his teeth! American domestic
longhair, by the look of it.

"St. Jockofgrapes" > wrote in message
news:461ade48$0$2231



>> Here's a better source: http://www.evilbible.com/ <== Nope!
>
> Uninspired, filled with hate, not love, ofers no salvation, etc.
> Easily debunked. (-: It's an atheist's excuse to be unaccountable.

your Bible is garbage. The web site does a good job of proving that.

You say that it's easily debunked -- that's a lie.

Your only salvation will be that of being a slave to an atheist in the
afterlife -- if there is a God, he hates groveling brain deads like
yourself.

Again ,,,,

unless they lived once, but are dead now, let these "gods"
appear to all of mankind and prove their existences and
powers, and let man know what they want.


If they can't do that, then forget it - it's not real.

Here's an example of your "god's" law pertaining to selling your daughter
into sexual slavery.

(Exodus 21:7-11 NLT) When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will
not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please
the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is
not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the
contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry
his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her
as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he
may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife.
If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman
without making any payment.

On Mon, 9 Apr 2007 18:58:58 +0100, Flying Rat, board-certified
Earthquack trainer wrote:

> That's Earthquack knackered then, seeing as his wife fled to California
> and got a restraining order out on him.

Any interest in backing this assertion with facts?

In alt.flame.jesus.christ, Velvet Elvis said...

> On Mon, 09 Apr 2007 15:43:35 -0600, Art Deco > wrote:
>
> >St. Jockofgrapes > wrote:
> >
> >>"Kurt Gavin" > wrote in message
> arthlink.net...
> >>>
> >>> "St. Jockofgrapes" > wrote in message
> >>> ...
> >>>>
> >>>> "Kurt Gavin" > wrote in message
> >>>> nk.net...
> >>>>> Personally, I don't care much for all this "love" talk, coming from the
> >>>>> myth book of an institution that has a history of
> >>>>> ignorance, murder and terror.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If the gods yahweh and jesus are real, then let them appear, prove their
> >>>>> existences and powers, and let man know what they want.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If they can't do that, then forget it - it's not real. <== ALREADY HAVE!
> >>>
> >>> No they haven't - the yarns about yahweh and jesus appearing are very
> >>> phoney. The book of judas <== false book. (-:
> >>
> >> ==
> >>Archaeology and the New Testament Written by Patrick Zukeran
> >>
> >>There is an ongoing debate among scholars regarding the historical accuracy
> >>of the Bible. Some feel that the Bible is a fictitious work and should be
> >>read as a work of literary fiction. Others feel it is an accurate
> >>h
> >
> >More screed, how boring.
>
> It's all he has to offer.

Plonk the Screeder! He wants attention. Starve him!

--
St. Jackanapes of Usenet ~ Bearer of The One True Liver ~
Ordained Minister & Holy Saint of The Universal Life Church
-----------------------------------------------------------------
WEBSITE: http://www.jackanapes.ws FORUM: http://www.voy.com/20630/
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Diet with Dr. Chung: http://www.jackanapes.ws/2pdcat.html

On Mon, 9 Apr 2007 20:57:57 -0400, St. Jackanapes >
wrote:


>That's a troll named John Loiodice. Plonk him. We have a Group Plonk out
>on that ****.

How about a little spambait? I wonder if anyone will

>
>>That's a troll named Velvet Elvis. Plonk him. We have a Group Plonk out
>>on that ****.
>
> How about a little spambait? I wonder if anyone will
>
All email addresses wil not be delivered, and will lead nowhere.


BTW: Try the ...........apes website below! (]}-; <>< :-{[)

--
St. Jockofgrapes of Usenet ~ Bondslave of The One True God ~
Born Once Die Twice Born Twice Die Once
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WEBSITE: http://76.162.199.209/_/






































































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"Mu" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 9 Apr 2007 18:58:58 +0100, Flying Rat, board-certified
> Earthquack trainer wrote:
>
>> That's Earthquack knackered then, seeing as his wife fled to California
>> and got a restraining order out on him.
>
> Any interest in backing this assertion with facts?


Well, it's a fact that your Andi posting as another identity.

"Kurt Gavin" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>
> "Mu" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Mon, 9 Apr 2007 18:58:58 +0100, Flying Rat, board-certified
>> Earthquack trainer wrote:
>>
>>> That's Earthquack knackered then, seeing as his wife fled to California
>>> and got a restraining order out on him.
>>
>> Any interest in backing this assertion with facts?
>
>
> Well, it's a fact that your Andi posting as another identity.
>YEP!

Kurt Gavin wrote:
> "Mu" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Mon, 9 Apr 2007 18:58:58 +0100, Flying Rat, board-certified
>> Earthquack trainer wrote:
>>
>>> That's Earthquack knackered then, seeing as his wife fled to California
>>> and got a restraining order out on him.
>> Any interest in backing this assertion with facts?
>
>
> Well, it's a fact that your Andi posting as another identity.
>
>
"your" should be "you're"

A true sign of ignorance.

Your "genus" is showing. Again.

"George" > wrote in message
...
> Kurt Gavin wrote:
>> "Mu" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> On Mon, 9 Apr 2007 18:58:58 +0100, Flying Rat, board-certified
>>> Earthquack trainer wrote:
>>>
>>>> That's Earthquack knackered then, seeing as his wife fled to California
>>>> and got a restraining order out on him.
>>> Any interest in backing this assertion with facts?
>>
>>
>> Well, it's a fact that your Andi posting as another identity.
> "your" should be "you're"
>
> A true sign of ignorance.
>
> Your "genus" is showing. Again.

Nitwit.

In article >, says...
> Kurt Gavin wrote:
> > "Mu" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> On Mon, 9 Apr 2007 18:58:58 +0100, Flying Rat, board-certified
> >> Earthquack trainer wrote:
> >>
> >>> That's Earthquack knackered then, seeing as his wife fled to California
> >>> and got a restraining order out on him.
> >> Any interest in backing this assertion with facts?
> >
> >
> > Well, it's a fact that your Andi posting as another identity.
> >
> >
> "your" should be "you're"
>
> A true sign of ignorance.
>
> Your "genus" is showing. Again.
>
spelling lames! How quaint.

Do you know any other equally retarded put-down attempts?

Honestly...you just can't get trolls nowadays like you used to, even Mu
isn't as rabid as he used to be.

You do realise there was actually a theory at one stage which said Mu
was actually the now-Ex Mrs Chung?

FR