http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/NEWS/2007/NEW01563.html

In article >, Andy <q> wrote:

> http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/NEWS/2007/NEW01563.html

Drat, I've been using that peanut butter for making suet (mixed with
lard, seeds & other birdie goodies). Do birds get sick from salmonella?
OTOH, I do melt the lard so maybe it got hot enough to kill the
salmonella.

With all these food recalls, it seems like the FDA is doing very little
in the way of prevention these days. Our tax dollars at work for the
food industry....

Emma

"Emma Thackery" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, Andy <q> wrote:
>
>> http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/NEWS/2007/NEW01563.html
>
> Drat, I've been using that peanut butter for making suet (mixed with
> lard, seeds & other birdie goodies). Do birds get sick from salmonella?
> OTOH, I do melt the lard so maybe it got hot enough to kill the
> salmonella.
>
> With all these food recalls, it seems like the FDA is doing very little
> in the way of prevention these days. Our tax dollars at work for the
> food industry....
>
> Emma


All these recalls? The numbers are miniscule, compared to the problem-free
volume produced. As far as enforcement, I'd trust ConAgra to jump all over
this MUCH faster than a government agency ever could. With their long list
of products, a boycott could be disastrous.

"Steve Wertz" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 14:23:21 -0600, Emma Thackery wrote:
>
>> In article >, Andy <q> wrote:
>>
>>> http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/NEWS/2007/NEW01563.html
>
> <piggybacking due to killfile>
>
> "Both the Peter Pan and Great Value brands are manufactured in a
> single facility in Georgia by ConAgra. Great Value peanut butter
> made by other manufacturers is not affected."
>
> OK, I give up: How many manufacturers make "Great Value" brand
> peanut butter?
>
> Another devious Walmart practice exposed. Their store brands are
> made by the lowest bidder, and probably change constantly. So
> much for consistency.
>
> -sw

Probably just two manufacturers, and the source varies based on who's able
to fill Wal Mart's demand at the moment. There aren't THAT many
manufacturers of private label peanut butter.

In article >,
"JoeSpareBedroom" > wrote:

> "Emma Thackery" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article >, Andy <q> wrote:
> >
> >> http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/NEWS/2007/NEW01563.html
[...]
> > With all these food recalls, it seems like the FDA is doing very little
> > in the way of prevention these days. Our tax dollars at work for the
> > food industry....
>
> All these recalls? The numbers are miniscule, compared to the problem-free
> volume produced.

I'd agree that relatively speaking, the number of recalls might seem
low. However, the hundreds of people recently affected or sickened by
fairly fundamental pathogens like salmonella and e. coli is significant.
Given the pasteurization requirement for peanut butter, it is actually
surprising that this would happen on a ConAgra food production line.
You have to wonder how so much potentially tainted product actually made
it out of the plant.

> As far as enforcement, I'd trust ConAgra to jump all over
> this MUCH faster than a government agency ever could. With their long list
> of products, a boycott could be disastrous.

Before today, I actually had no idea that Peter Pan was a ConAgra
product. I had to look very closely on the Peter Pan jar to even find
their name; they sure don't seem to advertise it. This recall is
especially disturbing since children are the main consumers of peanut
butter. A couple hundred kids with salmonella poisoning troubles me far
more than the possibility of a boycott levied at ConAgra.

"Emma Thackery" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "JoeSpareBedroom" > wrote:
>
>> "Emma Thackery" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > In article >, Andy <q> wrote:
>> >
>> >> http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/NEWS/2007/NEW01563.html
> [...]
>> > With all these food recalls, it seems like the FDA is doing very little
>> > in the way of prevention these days. Our tax dollars at work for the
>> > food industry....
>>
>> All these recalls? The numbers are miniscule, compared to the
>> problem-free
>> volume produced.
>
> I'd agree that relatively speaking, the number of recalls might seem
> low. However, the hundreds of people recently affected or sickened by
> fairly fundamental pathogens like salmonella and e. coli is significant.
> Given the pasteurization requirement for peanut butter, it is actually
> surprising that this would happen on a ConAgra food production line.
> You have to wonder how so much potentially tainted product actually made
> it out of the plant.
>
>> As far as enforcement, I'd trust ConAgra to jump all over
>> this MUCH faster than a government agency ever could. With their long
>> list
>> of products, a boycott could be disastrous.
>
> Before today, I actually had no idea that Peter Pan was a ConAgra
> product. I had to look very closely on the Peter Pan jar to even find
> their name; they sure don't seem to advertise it. This recall is
> especially disturbing since children are the main consumers of peanut
> butter. A couple hundred kids with salmonella poisoning troubles me far
> more than the possibility of a boycott levied at ConAgra.


My first thoughts on the cause:

- Source of peanuts. I don't know if they're all domestic, or perhaps some
are imported. If imported, how are they handled? How are they fertilized?
- Farms downstream from cattle/pig operations? That was a concern in
California not long ago.
- Language issues with workers. Do workers understand all the necessary
precautions?
- Intelligence issues with workers, even the English-speaking ones. Half the
country is terminally stupid, according to recent surveys.

"Steve Wertz" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 16 Feb 2007 02:10:05 GMT, JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
>
>> Probably just two manufacturers, and the source varies based on who's
>> able
>> to fill Wal Mart's demand at the moment.
>
> There's quite a bit of leeway in getting the cost of peanut
> butter down from actual peanut prices.. And I'm sure Walmart is
> milking it for all it's worth. Anybody who has the capacity can
> certainly supply it. Its' going to the lowest bidder. Which
> will lead to more cost-cutting mishaps like this.
>
> -sw

True. I believe it was Smuckers which told Wal Mart to take a hike, with
regard to the pricing and size of certain products. The business model
simply didn't work for them.

Emma Thackery said...

> A couple hundred kids with salmonella poisoning troubles me far
> more than the possibility of a boycott levied at ConAgra.


Emma,

It seems that products are only recalled after they are in the consumer's
hands and a sickness develops and is reported.

That's my "no real knowledge" perception anyway.

Andy

"Andy" <q> wrote in message ...
> Emma Thackery said...
>
>> A couple hundred kids with salmonella poisoning troubles me far
>> more than the possibility of a boycott levied at ConAgra.
>
>
> Emma,
>
> It seems that products are only recalled after they are in the consumer's
> hands and a sickness develops and is reported.
>
> That's my "no real knowledge" perception anyway.
>
> Andy


There *have* been recalls initiated by manufacturers before consumers knew
there was a problem. But, most of the time, the only way to know of a
problem is when customers are affected.

In article >,
"JoeSpareBedroom" > wrote:

It appears that incomplete pasteurization may have played a role in this
episode:

<http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/cidrap/con...ews/feb1507sal
monella.html>

"...Israeli researchers recently tested the heat tolerance of three
Salmonella strains in peanut butter and found that current peanut butter
pasteurization processes, with temperatures from 158 to 167ºF (70 to
75ºC) applied for up to 20 minutes, don't consistently destroy the
organism. They found that some Salmonella survived, even when the peanut
butter was heated to 194ºF (90ºC) or for longer periods, up to 50
minutes. Their results appeared in the November 2006 issue of the
Journal of Food Protection...."

I'm guessing that ConAgra met the pasteurization standard but that it
was insufficient for the type of salmonella involved.

> My first thoughts on the cause:
> - Source of peanuts. I don't know if they're all domestic, or perhaps some
> are imported. If imported, how are they handled? How are they fertilized?

Good questions. Also, how long did they sit around before being
processed and how far did they travel (and under what conditions) before
reaching their final destination?

> - Farms downstream from cattle/pig operations? That was a concern in
> California not long ago.

That involved e. coli.

[...]

In article >, Andy <q> wrote:

> Emma Thackery said...
>
> > A couple hundred kids with salmonella poisoning troubles me far
> > more than the possibility of a boycott levied at ConAgra.
>
>
> Emma,
>
> It seems that products are only recalled after they are in the consumer's
> hands and a sickness develops and is reported.
>
> That's my "no real knowledge" perception anyway.

Yes, it certainly seems that way to me as well.

anyone remember about 1-2 months ago that a "stomach flu" was sweeping
the nation? the experts kept blaming noravirus/norwalk virus. but
clinics generally won't test for noravirus (very difficult & expensive
to test for, so noravirus becomes a default diagnosis - "tummy
problems? oh you must have noravirus.")

could it be as simple as everyone was eating bad peanut butter
(canteloupes, earth's best baby food, and whatever else is the recall
of the day)?

- themamayada

On Feb 15, 3:23 pm, Emma Thackery > wrote:

> With all these food recalls, it seems like the FDA is doing very little
> in the way of prevention these days. Our tax dollars at work for the
> food industry....

On Fri, 16 Feb 2007 12:30:54 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom" > wrote:

>"Emma Thackery" > wrote in message
...
>> In article >,
>> "JoeSpareBedroom" > wrote:
>>
>>> "Emma Thackery" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>> > In article >, Andy <q> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/NEWS/2007/NEW01563.html
>> [...]
>>> > With all these food recalls, it seems like the FDA is doing very little
>>> > in the way of prevention these days. Our tax dollars at work for the
>>> > food industry....
>>>
>>> All these recalls? The numbers are miniscule, compared to the
>>> problem-free
>>> volume produced.
>>
>> I'd agree that relatively speaking, the number of recalls might seem
>> low. However, the hundreds of people recently affected or sickened by
>> fairly fundamental pathogens like salmonella and e. coli is significant.
>> Given the pasteurization requirement for peanut butter, it is actually
>> surprising that this would happen on a ConAgra food production line.
>> You have to wonder how so much potentially tainted product actually made
>> it out of the plant.
>>
>>> As far as enforcement, I'd trust ConAgra to jump all over
>>> this MUCH faster than a government agency ever could. With their long
>>> list
>>> of products, a boycott could be disastrous.
>>
>> Before today, I actually had no idea that Peter Pan was a ConAgra
>> product. I had to look very closely on the Peter Pan jar to even find
>> their name; they sure don't seem to advertise it. This recall is
>> especially disturbing since children are the main consumers of peanut
>> butter. A couple hundred kids with salmonella poisoning troubles me far
>> more than the possibility of a boycott levied at ConAgra.
>
>
>My first thoughts on the cause:
>
>- Source of peanuts. I don't know if they're all domestic, or perhaps some
>are imported. If imported, how are they handled? How are they fertilized?
>- Farms downstream from cattle/pig operations? That was a concern in
>California not long ago.
>- Language issues with workers. Do workers understand all the necessary
>precautions?
>- Intelligence issues with workers, even the English-speaking ones. Half the
>country is terminally stupid, according to recent surveys.
>
What surveys? Are they available on-line? I'm curious. I was shocked to hellangone when I saw a
demograpgic that 30% of my graduating class (1967) in high school couldn't read above the thitd
grade level. I understand it's even worse now.

Obligatory food reference, musgovian stew today. Recipe available on request.


--
L.J. LaMere
Lansing, Michigan
Take out the trash to reply
USA

When the question is "Why do they---"
The answer is money
--

--

"Larry LaMere" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 16 Feb 2007 12:30:54 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
> > wrote:
>
>>"Emma Thackery" > wrote in message
...
>>> In article >,
>>> "JoeSpareBedroom" > wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Emma Thackery" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>> > In article >, Andy <q> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/NEWS/2007/NEW01563.html
>>> [...]
>>>> > With all these food recalls, it seems like the FDA is doing very
>>>> > little
>>>> > in the way of prevention these days. Our tax dollars at work for the
>>>> > food industry....
>>>>
>>>> All these recalls? The numbers are miniscule, compared to the
>>>> problem-free
>>>> volume produced.
>>>
>>> I'd agree that relatively speaking, the number of recalls might seem
>>> low. However, the hundreds of people recently affected or sickened by
>>> fairly fundamental pathogens like salmonella and e. coli is significant.
>>> Given the pasteurization requirement for peanut butter, it is actually
>>> surprising that this would happen on a ConAgra food production line.
>>> You have to wonder how so much potentially tainted product actually made
>>> it out of the plant.
>>>
>>>> As far as enforcement, I'd trust ConAgra to jump all over
>>>> this MUCH faster than a government agency ever could. With their long
>>>> list
>>>> of products, a boycott could be disastrous.
>>>
>>> Before today, I actually had no idea that Peter Pan was a ConAgra
>>> product. I had to look very closely on the Peter Pan jar to even find
>>> their name; they sure don't seem to advertise it. This recall is
>>> especially disturbing since children are the main consumers of peanut
>>> butter. A couple hundred kids with salmonella poisoning troubles me far
>>> more than the possibility of a boycott levied at ConAgra.
>>
>>
>>My first thoughts on the cause:
>>
>>- Source of peanuts. I don't know if they're all domestic, or perhaps some
>>are imported. If imported, how are they handled? How are they fertilized?
>>- Farms downstream from cattle/pig operations? That was a concern in
>>California not long ago.
>>- Language issues with workers. Do workers understand all the necessary
>>precautions?
>>- Intelligence issues with workers, even the English-speaking ones. Half
>>the
>>country is terminally stupid, according to recent surveys.
>>
> What surveys? Are they available on-line? I'm curious. I was shocked to
> hellangone when I saw a
> demograpgic that 30% of my graduating class (1967) in high school couldn't
> read above the thitd
> grade level. I understand it's even worse now.
>
> Obligatory food reference, musgovian stew today. Recipe available on
> request.
>
> L.J. LaMere


Larry: The last two presidential elections are the surveys I was referring
to.