Virginia Tadrzynski wrote:
> A waste is what her death was. When you saw her leaving the court after
> dealing with the deceased husband's children, she actually looked liked a
> beautiful young woman, without all the added pounds of pancake make up and
> hair extensions. This was only a year ago. Then the heir who sued her
> died, her son died, and now her....in the end I think Howard got his
> revenge, no one got his money.
>
> She was more like her idol, Marilyn, than Jayne Mansfield. Mansfield was by
> all accounts a genius who made poor choices in her final years, but her
> legacy as an actress and mother will stand up. Marilyn was not the
> brightest cookie and was used and used up by her hangers on and their like
> for what they could get out of her. Like her, I'm sure no one will ever
> know if Anna did herself in intentionally or accidentally.

A friend of mine was Anna Nicole's roomate at the Betty Ford Clinic.
She said Anna was genuinely sweet and talked about her son as if the
sun rose because of him. What people forget is the media chooses what
they show, and none of us really knew Anna Nicole, other than her
media image.


>
> What saddens me is the ghouls who are circling her corpse....the sister she
> hadn't seen or spoken to in 10 years, the mother who by her own admission,
> disowned her, all want their little 'piece of the pie' they think she left.
> The out of work photog only wants claim to the baby because he thinks there
> are millions attached to her, not unlike Thierry Roussoult (remember him, he
> married, impregnated and left Christina Onassis, and by all accounts was a
> rotten father because the Onassis will kept his hands of Athena's money). I
> hope they find the baby's father is some Bahamanian fisherman with a big
> heart for a little lost child. Then maybe the baby will have a normal
> existence.
> -ginny

Couldn't have said it better myself. AN's best friend was on TV today
and said she thinks Anna simply died of a broken heart. She was still
devastated by Danny's death and wasn't coping well, at all. While
Anna Nicole wasn't a role model by any means, she was one of the first
contemporary plus-sized models and sex-symbol, and that's no small
accomplishment in this world where Kate Moss is held up as a standard
of beauty. She was only 39 - and her death was a tragedy. I only
hope that her child can have a semblence of a normal life, out of the
media's eye.

-L.

"-L." wrote:
>
> Couldn't have said it better myself. AN's best friend was on TV today
> and said she thinks Anna simply died of a broken heart. She was still
> devastated by Danny's death and wasn't coping well, at all. While
> Anna Nicole wasn't a role model by any means, she was one of the first
> contemporary plus-sized models and sex-symbol, and that's no small
> accomplishment in this world where Kate Moss is held up as a standard
> of beauty.


First of all...... plus size??????????/ Only her chest. She did get
chunky for a while.... really chunky, but she lost that and back that
lucious figure.

Second.... Kate Moss..... let's not get into that thing about women being
forced into starvation to fit men's images if the perfect body. That is a
distorted female image. On behalf of the men of the world I want to plead
to women. If you want to have a body to appeal to men, don't starve
yourselves to look like Kate Moss. Aim for something like Anna Nicole was
packing.

Dave Smith wrote:
> "-L." wrote:
>>
>
> Second.... Kate Moss..... let's not get into that thing about women
> being forced into starvation to fit men's images if the perfect body.
> That is a distorted female image. On behalf of the men of the world
> I want to plead to women. If you want to have a body to appeal to
> men, don't starve yourselves to look like Kate Moss. Aim for
> something like Anna Nicole was packing.

Wow, for once a man with taste! I'm not overweight, but I'm not a stick,
either. Even my husband says he likes a woman with FLESH on her. I'm 5'7"
and weigh (variably) between 150 - 155. Heck, I'm 40 years old and I'm
happy with that. Why do women up-to 6 feet tall feel they need to weigh 100
pounds? Um, that's not normal.

kili <------- once again stepping off her soapbox
--
http://www.caringbridge.org/visit/kilikini

kilikini wrote:
>
>
> > Second.... Kate Moss..... let's not get into that thing about women
> > being forced into starvation to fit men's images if the perfect body.
> > That is a distorted female image. On behalf of the men of the world
> > I want to plead to women. If you want to have a body to appeal to
> > men, don't starve yourselves to look like Kate Moss. Aim for
> > something like Anna Nicole was packing.
>
> Wow, for once a man with taste! I'm not overweight, but I'm not a stick,
> either. Even my husband says he likes a woman with FLESH on her. I'm 5'7"
> and weigh (variably) between 150 - 155. Heck, I'm 40 years old and I'm
> happy with that. Why do women up-to 6 feet tall feel they need to weigh 100
> pounds? Um, that's not normal.

Not for once kilikini. I think that my tastes reflect those of most men. We
keep hearing about these skin and bone ideas being forced on women by men
and wonder where they get that idea. Most men want to see some curves and
have something to hold on to. When we look at a woman's chest, we want to
see boobs, not bony ribs.

On Sat, 10 Feb 2007 10:07:38 -0500, Dave Smith >
wrote:

>>
>Not for once kilikini. I think that my tastes reflect those of most men. We
>keep hearing about these skin and bone ideas being forced on women by men
>and wonder where they get that idea. Most men want to see some curves and
>have something to hold on to. When we look at a woman's chest, we want to
>see boobs, not bony ribs.

I'm reminded of the old Polish measure of beauty;

"If necessary, good woman should be able to pull plow"


<rj>

"kilikini" > wrote :
>
> Wow, for once a man with taste! I'm not overweight, but I'm not a stick,
> either. Even my husband says he likes a woman with FLESH on her. I'm
> 5'7"
> and weigh (variably) between 150 - 155. Heck, I'm 40 years old and I'm
> happy with that. Why do women up-to 6 feet tall feel they need to weigh
> 100
> pounds? Um, that's not normal.

On the other hand, naturally slender women (not boney, just slim-hipped,
small breasted, naturally streamlined) should not feel they need to have
breast and ass implants to be sexy. I felt that pressure in my 20s, but
learned
to accept myself as I am later in life.

"cybercat" > wrote in message
...
>
> "kilikini" > wrote :
> >
> > Wow, for once a man with taste! I'm not overweight, but I'm not a
stick,
> > either. Even my husband says he likes a woman with FLESH on her. I'm
> > 5'7"
> > and weigh (variably) between 150 - 155. Heck, I'm 40 years old and I'm
> > happy with that. Why do women up-to 6 feet tall feel they need to weigh
> > 100
> > pounds? Um, that's not normal.
>
> On the other hand, naturally slender women (not boney, just slim-hipped,
> small breasted, naturally streamlined) should not feel they need to have
> breast and ass implants to be sexy. I felt that pressure in my 20s, but
> learned
> to accept myself as I am later in life.
>
>

Another good point, cyber.

kili

cybercat > wrote:
>On the other hand, naturally slender women (not boney, just slim-hipped,
>small breasted, naturally streamlined) should not feel they need to have
>breast and ass implants to be sexy. I felt that pressure in my 20s, but
>learned
>to accept myself as I am later in life.

In your 20s, you were competing with a lot of slim,
healthy, busty babes.

In your 40s you will be the only skinny girl left, and
all the more attractive by comparison.

So it's not just appreciation that changed. It's the
competition and your position in it.

--Blair

On 2007-02-10, Dave Smith > wrote:

> forced into starvation to fit men's images if the perfect body. That is a
> distorted female image. On behalf of the men of the world I want to plead
> to women. If you want to have a body to appeal to men, don't starve
> yourselves to look like Kate Moss. Aim for something like Anna Nicole was
> packing.

Agreed, Dave. All these skeletor chicks are downright repulsive and
are an image women have imposed upon themselves. Granted, it's with
the coercion of the stupid fashion industry that parades out skeletors
on the runway and generates billboard/magazine ads by the score.
Someone should prosecute The Gap for child abuse with those perverse
ads. But you people continue to go to Lindsey Lohan movies and buy
mags and tabloids with the cadaver pack on the cover. Bottom line:
you buy it, they'll sell it.

nb

On Sat, 10 Feb 2007 09:22:07 -0600, notbob > wrote:

>On 2007-02-10, Dave Smith > wrote:
>
>> forced into starvation to fit men's images if the perfect body. That is a
>> distorted female image. On behalf of the men of the world I want to plead
>> to women. If you want to have a body to appeal to men, don't starve
>> yourselves to look like Kate Moss. Aim for something like Anna Nicole was
>> packing.
>
>Agreed, Dave. All these skeletor chicks are downright repulsive and
>are an image women have imposed upon themselves.

I don't know anyone of either sex who finds scrawny bodies attractive.

> Granted, it's with
>the coercion of the stupid fashion industry that parades out skeletors
>on the runway and generates billboard/magazine ads by the score.
>Someone should prosecute The Gap for child abuse with those perverse
>ads. But you people continue to go to Lindsey Lohan movies and buy
>mags and tabloids with the cadaver pack on the cover. Bottom line:
>you buy it, they'll sell it.

Yeah, but those mags and tablois are usually mocking Lohan and her ilk
for their thinness.

People don't buy magazines with scrawny people on the covers because
they think those people are beautiful. They buy the magazines because
they like to read the dirt.

Laurie

On Sat, 10 Feb 2007 08:39:06 -0500, Dave Smith
> wrote:

>"-L." wrote:
>>
>> Couldn't have said it better myself. AN's best friend was on TV today
>> and said she thinks Anna simply died of a broken heart. She was still
>> devastated by Danny's death and wasn't coping well, at all. While
>> Anna Nicole wasn't a role model by any means, she was one of the first
>> contemporary plus-sized models and sex-symbol, and that's no small
>> accomplishment in this world where Kate Moss is held up as a standard
>> of beauty.
>
>
>First of all...... plus size??????????/ Only her chest. She did get
>chunky for a while.... really chunky, but she lost that and back that
>lucious figure.
>
>Second.... Kate Moss..... let's not get into that thing about women being
>forced into starvation to fit men's images if the perfect body. That is a
>distorted female image.

It's not an either or. It doesn't do any good to counter one
stereotype with the flip side of it. If I had to come down on one side
of the coin, I'd probably come down on your side, but it's not that
simple. The men who drool over thin women in hip-hugger jeans are just
as real as the women who treat fashion magazines like bibles. And it's
both men and women who run the fashion industry.

Yes, it's annoying when women blame men for women's standards of
beauty; it's always annoying when women try to hold women blameless
for things that both sexes have a hand in, in some way or another.

FWIW, I don't think this *is* a world where Kate Moss is held up as a
standard of beauty. She's a fashion model and we know that some
fashion models are unusually thin. But if we look at the people who
are generally considered beautiful, most of them aren't close to as
thin as her.

A friend told me once that someone had said about Kate Moss: "I'd
rather feed her than f*ck her."

Laurie

Dave Smith wrote:
> "-L." wrote:
> >
> > Couldn't have said it better myself. AN's best friend was on TV today
> > and said she thinks Anna simply died of a broken heart. She was still
> > devastated by Danny's death and wasn't coping well, at all. While
> > Anna Nicole wasn't a role model by any means, she was one of the first
> > contemporary plus-sized models and sex-symbol, and that's no small
> > accomplishment in this world where Kate Moss is held up as a standard
> > of beauty.
>
>
> First of all...... plus size??????????/ Only her chest. She did get
> chunky for a while.... really chunky, but she lost that and back that
> lucious figure.

She was a plus-sized runway model. Plus-sized in the fashion industry
is anything size 14 and over.

>
> Second.... Kate Moss..... let's not get into that thing about women being
> forced into starvation to fit men's images if the perfect body.

Did I say anything about that? No.

> That is a
> distorted female image. On behalf of the men of the world I want to plead
> to women. If you want to have a body to appeal to men, don't starve
> yourselves to look like Kate Moss. Aim for something like Anna Nicole was
> packing.

What I did say was the Kate Mosses are being held up as the standard
of beauty in society. This is true. Look at every model,
entertainer, celebrity, actress, etc. and most of them are unnaturally
thin. This is the message about beauty that is sent to sent to young
girls and women every day.

-L.

"-L." wrote:
>
> What I did say was the Kate Mosses are being held up as the standard
> of beauty in society. This is true. Look at every model,
> entertainer, celebrity, actress, etc. and most of them are unnaturally
> thin. This is the message about beauty that is sent to sent to young
> girls and women every day.

How many are truly "unnaturally thin" vs. just thinner than the rapidly
increasing average? It's not unreasonable to try to eliminate the truly
unhealthy anorexic models, but it also runs the risk of a slippery slope
to a witch hunt against the ones who are perfectly healthy and simply
have better genetics and / or more discipline in watching their diet and
exercise under the misguided aim of improving the self esteem of
unhealthy 200# teenagers. The obesity epidemic needs to be addressed,
not masked by an attempt to make fat more accepted.

Pete C.

On 2007-02-11, Pete C. > wrote:


> unhealthy 200# teenagers. The obesity epidemic needs to be addressed,
> not masked by an attempt to make fat more accepted.

Only countries with too much food view being overweight as unhealthy.

nb

notbob wrote:
>
> On 2007-02-11, Pete C. > wrote:
>
> > unhealthy 200# teenagers. The obesity epidemic needs to be addressed,
> > not masked by an attempt to make fat more accepted.
>
> Only countries with too much food view being overweight as unhealthy.
>
> nb

Bull shit! Any country that has progressed past witch doctors knows
being overweight is unhealthy.

Pete C.wrote:

> notbob wrote:
> >
> > On 2007-02-11, Pete C. > wrote:
> >
> > > unhealthy 200# teenagers. The obesity epidemic needs to be addressed,
> > > not masked by an attempt to make fat more accepted.
> >
> > Only countries with too much food view being overweight as unhealthy.
> >
> > nb
>
> Bull shit! Any country that has progressed past witch doctors knows
> being overweight is unhealthy.


notbob is correct...in a Third World country having an overweight child (or
being overweight yourself) is often considered a sign of prosperity, wealth,
well - being...

In fact it wasn't so long ago that this was true even in the US, if you
remember a little thing called the "Depression". Malnutrition was rampant,
so much so that a hefty percentage of WWII draftees were rejected because of
poor health caused by nutritional deficiencies, e.g scurvy, rickets,
pellagra, a host of other conditions - or even for simply being underweight
(look at WPA photos from the era, e.g. Walker Evan's pix of sharecroppers,
etc. All the poor are rail - thin.). This was a real problem at that time
in the UK, too. In fact strict rationing in the UK during the war actually
helped to *improve* the general health because the rationing program was
designed along strict scientific and nutritional guidelines, rations were
designed to nutritionally maximise the number of calories consumed.

60 - 70 odd years ago prosperous people were often portrayed as overweight,
it was a common caricature in popular culture. And caricatures stem from
real life...

The phenomonen of poor or even middle - class folk being overweight is a
very recent one...has nothing to do with "witch doctor".

--
Best
Greg

On Sun, 11 Feb 2007 15:36:53 GMT, "Pete C." >
wrote:

>The obesity epidemic needs to be addressed,
>not masked by an attempt to make fat more accepted.

LOL. Don't you know obesity is a handicap?

Lou

"-L." wrote:
>
> >
> > Second.... Kate Moss..... let's not get into that thing about women being
> > forced into starvation to fit men's images if the perfect body.
>
> Did I say anything about that? No.

You didn't but I have heard similar comments too often. The female fashion
industry is run by women and by men who want to designs clothing for them,
not to have children with them.

>
> > That is a
> > distorted female image. On behalf of the men of the world I want to plead
> > to women. If you want to have a body to appeal to men, don't starve
> > yourselves to look like Kate Moss. Aim for something like Anna Nicole was
> > packing.
>
> What I did say was the Kate Mosses are being held up as the standard
> of beauty in society. This is true. Look at every model,
> entertainer, celebrity, actress, etc. and most of them are unnaturally
> thin. This is the message about beauty that is sent to sent to young
> girls and women every day.

Who holds her up to that? The fashion industry. Most of us look at her
wonder about her health.

"Dave Smith" > wrote

> You didn't but I have heard similar comments too often. The female fashion
> industry is run by women and by men who want to designs clothing for them,
> not to have children with them.

During this brouhaha about the models being so scary skinny
designers were bitching that their clothing looked better the
thinner the model. Hello, I could design for a wooden hanger.
If you can't design for the human body, get into another line
of work.

>> What I did say was the Kate Mosses are being held up as the standard
>> of beauty in society.

How that happened, I can only wonder. I fail to see the
attraction, and she looks like she has her teeth sharpened to
a point.

At any rate, if models were living on lettuce and water two
decades ago, what the heck do they get to eat now? I hope
they at least take supplements, including calcium.

I imagine Christie Brinkley would be overweight in today's
model world.

nancy

On 2007-02-11, Nancy Young > wrote:

> I imagine Christie Brinkley would be overweight in today's
> model world.

It's pretty grim. The whole phenomena has also gripped the fine arts.
Ballerinas suffering long term health problems trying to remain slim
and having to be educated in how to control their weight while still
getting enough fat intake and proper nutrition to not become calcium
cripples by their early 30s. Even the famous "fat lady" can longer be
relied on to sing. There are none! It's insane.

I recall when Lindsay Lohan matured into a particularly buxom young
lass and then suddenly shrank to hideous skeletor proportions almost
overnight. The thing that struck me most was the reponse of herself
and her similarly afflicted celebrity peers. They all said
essentially the same thing, that "Everyone says I look so much
better". I remember thinking, "Better than what? Road kill?".

Who is really responsible for this insanity? I'm sorry, but it's not
us guys. A cursory glance at any girly zine reveals guys still prefer
a Ms that doesn't look like a connect-the-dots puzzle. Who do these
boneyard escapees on the runway really appeal to? I sure isn't me.
I've yet to see a single sexually attractive female on the few fashion
newsclips I've seen. I suspect it's the work soley of the makers and
shakers of the arts and fashion industry. That closed little world of
questionable A&E movers and media moguls who have created some sort of
bizarre fantasy world of their own. They live in a sheltered closed
society that also just happens to have the power to broadcast their
distorted vision to the rest of society. Worse, society pays
attention even if that vision has no basis in reality. It's scary.

nb

notbob wrote:
>
> >
> I recall when Lindsay Lohan matured into a particularly buxom young
> lass and then suddenly shrank to hideous skeletor proportions almost
> overnight. The thing that struck me most was the reponse of herself
> and her similarly afflicted celebrity peers. They all said
> essentially the same thing, that "Everyone says I look so much
> better". I remember thinking, "Better than what? Road kill?".

The really sad thing is that having an eating disorder has become a status
symbol. It beats cutting oneself to get attention.