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In view of your erroneous assertion that there is such a
thing as "food-grade" butane and propane fuels, the committee has assessed you 11 Incredibility Points. It would have been less, but your firm insistence without checking any reliable sources - or even the company whose products you were discussing - raised it to that level. Your characterizing Mr. Pastorio as a liar when in fact, he was not doing so cost you another 13 Points, for two reasons: First you knew full well that he wasn't lying, and that is, itself, a lie merely designed to cause distress. And, second, you offered it as a sneaky, blind-side attack. Your insistence that only one BernzOmatic product didn't carry the California warning is either a lie for the sake of "winning' an argument, or an example of not doing even the most basic of checks to determine accuracy. In either case, it has a dishonest overtone that the Committee said should cost you an additional 18 Points. The most egregious of your faux-pas was to leap to the unwarranted and unchecked insistence that because the butane lighter (not a propane torch) didn't carry the California warning, it somehow had different properties than other such products. The fact that there is no separate MSDS as required by regulation for it, you chose to ignore and evade. The fact that you were told that BernzOmatic said they had no "food-grade" fuels made no difference - and you didn't check to determine the accuracy of the report. You didn't just say the product was different, you strenuously and repeatedly asserted that the butane had no "heavy ends" in it and was therefore free of carcinogenic properties. You made that statement with no evidence and only the deduction of your faulty reasoning, based on missing facts which you didn't try to check. This one cost you 54 Points because the reality was only a phone call away - to BernzOmatic customer service - and you didn't avail yourself of the opportunity to get the correct information. As you should know, when Credibility Points reach 40, all further statements should carry a reference to another source. When they reach 55, they should carry a reference to a known authority. When they reach 75, they need the authority and a way to contact them for corroboration. As no one has ever before surpassed 90 points, the Committee is at somewhat of a loss to deal with this situation. Members are divided about how to handle it. Some have suggested that you need to document everything except your name, while others want proof of that, as well. Some think your posts should appear in a special color, perhaps a brilliant mauve, as a signal that all might not be regular and credible about this note. Still others think you should henceforward always sign your posts "Mark Thorson 96CP" so everyone will know automatically not to believe anything and to suspect ulterior motive for everything. The Committee adjourned after unsuccessfully trying to make a Creme Brulee crust with the BernzOmatic Lighter because the flame wasn't intense enough to melt enough sugar to actually create a crust in a 4" souffle bowl. Before adjourning, two members thought it would be reasonable to assess you another 25 Points, but that missed carrying by one vote out of 55. You barely dodged that bullet. Words to the wise... The Credibility Committee |
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![]() You two are getting very tiresome. Brian -- If televison's a babysitter, the Internet is a drunk librarian who won't shut up. -- Dorothy Gambrell (http://catandgirl.com) |
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In article >,
"Default User" > wrote: > You two are getting very tiresome. > > > > > Brian <shocked look> You are actually still reading that thread????? -- Peace, Om Remove _ to validate e-mails. "My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson |
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Omelet wrote:
> In article >, > "Default User" > wrote: > > > You two are getting very tiresome. > > > > > > > > > > Brian > > <shocked look> > > You are actually still reading that thread????? It looked like a new one to me. I haven't really been reading the group to carefully as I've had a nasty cold since last week. Brian -- If televison's a babysitter, the Internet is a drunk librarian who won't shut up. -- Dorothy Gambrell (http://catandgirl.com) |
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One time on Usenet, "Default User" > said:
> Omelet wrote: > > In article >, > > "Default User" > wrote: > > > You two are getting very tiresome. > > <shocked look> > > > > You are actually still reading that thread????? > It looked like a new one to me. I haven't really been reading the group > to carefully as I've had a nasty cold since last week. Sorry to hear that, Brian -- get better soon! -- Jani in WA |
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Little Malice wrote:
> One time on Usenet, "Default User" > said: > > Omelet wrote: > > > In article >, > > > "Default User" > wrote: > > > > > You two are getting very tiresome. > > > > <shocked look> > > > > > > You are actually still reading that thread????? > > > It looked like a new one to me. I haven't really been reading the > > group to carefully as I've had a nasty cold since last week. > > Sorry to hear that, Brian -- get better soon! Mostly there. My ears are stopped up, but nose is clear and chest almost. Brian -- If televison's a babysitter, the Internet is a drunk librarian who won't shut up. -- Dorothy Gambrell (http://catandgirl.com) |
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On 10 Jan 2007 21:20:49 GMT, "Default User" >
wrote: >Omelet wrote: > >> In article >, >> "Default User" > wrote: >> >> > You two are getting very tiresome. >> > >> > Brian >> >> <shocked look> >> >> You are actually still reading that thread????? > >It looked like a new one to me. I haven't really been reading the group >to carefully as I've had a nasty cold since last week. > >Brian I'm alternating between this and Donald v. Rosie. Sue(tm) Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself! |
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![]() "Default User" > wrote in message ... > > You two are getting very tiresome. > > > > Getting? My God, but you are generous! -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
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In article >,
"cybercat" > wrote: > "Default User" > wrote in message > ... > > > > You two are getting very tiresome. > > > > > > > > > > Getting? My God, but you are generous! <cough> I'm going to bed... That ended my day nicely! -- Peace, Om Remove _ to validate e-mails. "My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson |
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Default User wrote:
> You two are getting very tiresome. I'm sure we are. But this - which you obviously didn't read - wasn't anything like the previous posts. Take a look. You might even get a grin. Hope springs eternal. Pastorio |
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Bob (this one) wrote:
> Default User wrote: > > You two are getting very tiresome. > > I'm sure we are. But this - which you obviously didn't read - wasn't > anything like the previous posts. Take a look. You might even get a > grin. I don't think there's anything either of you could do right now after your behavior that would make the least amused. And no, I won't bother reading it. Brian -- If televison's a babysitter, the Internet is a drunk librarian who won't shut up. -- Dorothy Gambrell (http://catandgirl.com) |
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Default User wrote:
> Bob (this one) wrote: > >> Default User wrote: >>> You two are getting very tiresome. >> I'm sure we are. But this - which you obviously didn't read - wasn't >> anything like the previous posts. Take a look. You might even get a >> grin. > > I don't think there's anything either of you could do right now after > your behavior that would make the least amused. And no, I won't bother > reading it. > Brian I prostrate myself before your perfection. No, seriously... Pastorio |
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Bob (this one) wrote:
> Default User wrote: > > I don't think there's anything either of you could do right now > > after your behavior that would make the least amused. And no, I > > won't bother reading it. > > Brian > > I prostrate myself before your perfection. You really don't get it, do you? Brian -- If televison's a babysitter, the Internet is a drunk librarian who won't shut up. -- Dorothy Gambrell (http://catandgirl.com) |
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"Bob (this one)" wrote:
> > Your characterizing Mr. Pastorio as a liar when in fact, he > was not doing so cost you another 13 Points, for two > reasons: First you knew full well that he wasn't lying, and > that is, itself, a lie merely designed to cause distress. > And, second, you offered it as a sneaky, blind-side attack. Did you not post the following (quoted in its entirety) on Monday? > Mark Thorson wrote: > > The facts are that a) this product produces a blue cone > > of flame indicating a temperature certainly high > > enough to carmelize anything that is carmelizable, > > and b) its fuel does not contain the hazards which > > would require the State of California warning that > > Bernomatic's other propane- and butane-fuelled are > > required to carry. > > *NONE* of BernzOmatic's products carry that warning. Only > the MSDS mentions it. > > > This is a product which is free of carcinogens. > > <LOL> A lighter to caramelize foods. Bwah... > > BernzOmatic's customer service people say that the fuel for > this is their standard product. > > Pastorio I'm aware you've already given a garbled explanation for this, but here's your chance to give a clear version of how your posting can possibly be truthful, given that I've already posted scanned images of a Bernzomatic product that has the State of California warning to alt.binaries.food. In your more recent postings, you seem to be trying to make a distinction between a "product" and "fuel", but in the last sentence I quoted above, you don't seem to be doing that. Can you be more clear about this? In what sense is your statement that "*NONE* of BernzOmatic's products carry that warning." not contradicted by the images I posted? |
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Mark Thorson wrote:
> "Bob (this one)" wrote: >> Your characterizing Mr. Pastorio as a liar when in fact, he >> was not doing so cost you another 13 Points, for two >> reasons: First you knew full well that he wasn't lying, and >> that is, itself, a lie merely designed to cause distress. >> And, second, you offered it as a sneaky, blind-side attack. So it wasn't a blind-side attack? And your statement was truthful that I had lied about there not being a food-grade torch? Did you demonstrate that there is a "food-grade" torch? These are your words: "The last time this came up, one of the lies that Bob Pastorio tried to float was that you couldn't buy a food-grade torch." Did you demonstrate there is a "food-grade" torch? No. You didn't. No. You can't. No. There isn't one. > Did you not post the following (quoted in its entirety) > on Monday? > >> Mark Thorson wrote: >>> The facts are that a) this product produces a blue cone >>> of flame indicating a temperature certainly high >>> enough to carmelize anything that is carmelizable, >>> and b) its fuel does not contain the hazards which >>> would require the State of California warning that >>> Bernomatic's other propane- and butane-fuelled are >>> required to carry. > >> *NONE* of BernzOmatic's products carry that warning. Only >> the MSDS mentions it. >> >>> This is a product which is free of carcinogens. This "free of carcinogens" lie is a Mark Thorson invention borne out by no supporting information and directly contradicted by BernzOmatic customer service people. A demonstrable lie. Making up things and trying to get people to believe them is lying. >> <LOL> A lighter to caramelize foods. Bwah... >> >> BernzOmatic's customer service people say that the fuel for >> this is their standard product. >> >> Pastorio > > I'm aware you've already given a garbled > explanation for this, Nice try sludgewit, but your shabbiness continues. Excerpting as you do so you can slime your way to still defending a clearly false position is exactly what I have come to know and love about you. My *continued* explanations detailed it very clearly, as you certainly know. How garbled is "BernzOmatic's customer service people say that the fuel for this is their standard product" on Planet Thorson? Does that not say that the lighter and the fuel are being considered differently? Is that too complex for you? > but here's your chance > to give a clear version of how your posting > can possibly be truthful, given that I've > already posted scanned images of a Bernzomatic > product that has the State of California warning > to alt.binaries.food. Poor dishonest Marky can't seem to get his quotations in order. I said on Monday: "*NO* BernzOmatic products carry the California warning. Period. They all use the same, unaltered fuels. Period." > In your more recent postings, you seem to be > trying to make a distinction between a "product" > and "fuel", but in the last sentence I quoted > above, you don't seem to be doing that. Of course not, And you could offer hundreds more that don['t do it. Because that wasn't the sentence that offered the idea. The one I just quoted made that clear enough to everybody but you. This one: "*NO* BernzOmatic products carry the California warning. Period. They all use the same, unaltered fuels. Period." > Can you be more clear about this? In what > sense is your statement that "*NONE* of > BernzOmatic's products carry that warning." > not contradicted by the images I posted? The distinction is clear enough when you get a 12-year-old to parse the sentences above. They say (clearly) "*NO* BernzOmatic products carry the California warning. Period." Which *could* include everything under the BernzOmatic label. Until you reach the next sentence, which says, "They all use the same, unaltered fuels. Period." See...? No, I'm sure you don't. And I notice you had nothing to say to this: *NONE* of the BernzOmatic products had the California warning on them. *NONE* of the other similar products from other companies had the California warning on them, either. Not for propane, butane or MAPP gas. The cylinders themselves, of course, were so labeled. So, in addition to your toy lighter, here are a few more BernzOmatic products without California warnings. They were all packaged in transparent plastic with fuel cylinder and attachments: Basic Use Kit TS3000KC Basic use Plumber's Kit - PK1001KC Basic Use - Quickfire - TS3000KC Power Cell - 94477 3-in-1 Micro torch - ST2200T - butane I also noted that the ubiquitous, red Bic fire lighter had no California warning anywhere on the package. I guess they must all be made with "food-grade" fuels. I'm still wondering why you won't call BernzOmatic customer service and ask them instead of all your unfounded guesses, wishful conjectures and outright lies. > My explanation is that they are not flouting the law. > The Flexible Utility Lighter is totally legal and safe. > The generic butane MSDS does not apply to this product. Your explanation is bullshit. By law, the company *must* publish an appropriate MSDS for all such products. They have. Your explanation is dust in the wind, moron. Pastorio |
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"Bob (this one)" wrote:
> > And I notice you had nothing to say to this: > *NONE* of the BernzOmatic products had the California > warning on them. *NONE* of the other similar products from > other companies had the California warning on them, either. > Not for propane, butane or MAPP gas. The cylinders > themselves, of course, were so labeled. In what sense is a gas cylinder not a product? The one I have has a UPC bar code on it. UPC stands for "Universal Product Code". It is a product. And it has the State of California warning on it. Both the UPC and the warning can be seen in the images I posted to alt.binaries.food. Is this how you defend yourself? By redefining "product" to exclude anything that exposes your words as false? That is transparent nonsense, but typical of you. |
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Mark Thorson wrote:
> > > > In what sense is a gas cylinder not a product? > The one I have has a UPC bar code on it. > UPC stands for "Universal Product Code". > It is a product. And it has the State of > California warning on it. Both the UPC > and the warning can be seen in the images Oh for crying out loud Mark. Have you not made a big enough ass of yourself on this one. Last year you warned someone to make sure that when caramelizing the sugar on their creme brulee that they use food grade propane. That was absolute nonsense because there is no food grade propane fuel. Period. You were given the opportunity to provide proof of food grade propane but failed to do so. That did not surprise us because there is no such thing, so we really didn't expect you to find it. Then you came back the the other day saying that Pastorio had lied when he said one cannot buy a food grade torch. You provided a link to a product and added that the product does not contain the carcinogenic "heavy ends" found in other propane and butane products. The product advertised in that link is not a propane torch. It is a butane lighter. The MSDS linked to it is for the Bernzomatic MSDS on the butane it sells, and it clearly indicates a warning about carcinogenic chemicals in the fuel and its by-products. You lied when you said cited it as proof that there is a food grade propane torch. You lied about it not containing carcinogenic chemicals. You may have lied about not having a link to the MSDS for the company's butane, though your recent comments lead me to accept that you were simply to dumb to follow them. You then started another thread where you accused Bob of lying, and I cannot understand how you how lame it is to fabricate nonsense to as some sort of proof about someone else lying. You have steadfastly denied that the MSDS for Bernzomatic butane gas applies to their butane gas refills without offering any proof that they have a special refining process for those little lighter refills. You have been given ample opportunity to find a cite to prove that food grade butane or propane is available. > Is this how you defend yourself? > By redefining "product" to exclude > anything that exposes your words > as false? That is transparent nonsense, > but typical of you. there is No need to redefine "product", but we may find ourselves in the position of having to redefine "stupid" and move the standard down low enough to include you if you keep this up. Never mind trying to insult Bob's character. For crying out loud, have the good sense to find proof that food grade propane is available or admit that you were wrong. Of course, you have made it obvious through your lies and allegations that we should not expect you to be man enough to admit your error, but you could at least shut up about it and try to save a little bit of dignity. |
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Dave Smith wrote:
> > You lied about it not containing carcinogenic chemicals. That's absolutely untrue. If it had such chemicals it would be required in California to have the State of California warning. The Flexible Utility Lighter does not have that warning. Therefore, you can be sure there are no such carcinogens in the fuel of that product (at least not enough to pose a significant risk of cancer over a lifetime of exposure, which is the standard written into the law). The law in California has a penalty of up to $2500 a day per violation. > You may have lied about not having a link to the MSDS for the > company's butane, though your recent comments lead me to accept > that you were simply to dumb to follow them. You yourself found a direct link from the web page for the BF9 refill to the butane MSDS. That is a product for which the MSDS applies, and it has the State of California warning on it. There is no such direct link from the web page for the Flexible Utility Lighter, and therefore no reason to believe it applies. And it's not just the BF9. Here's the web page for a propane torch kit. Go there, and you'll see a direct link to its MSDS. That's true of every product on the Bernzomatic web site for which an MSDS applies. http://www.bernzomatic.com/bernzomat...rnzoProd100070 You're just grasping at straws to deny this, because it's the only defense you've got. |
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Mark Thorson wrote:
I bet you think that BernzOmatic processes their own propane. Right? I bet that you think that everything with their brand name on it is made by them. Right? Employees hammering out metallic things, sticking them in plastic packaging and heat-welding them shut...? The lighter is made in China. The fuel is packed in that cute little yellow container in China. The fuel refills are not available as a separate purchase in the U.S. yet, and won't be until the end of the month according to "Crystal" a customer service rep at BernzOmatic. She said to try Walmart in a few weeks. You might just want to ask the people from BernzOmatic about it instead of wildly conjecturing. And being so wrong. Pastorio |
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"Bob (this one)" wrote:
> > Mark Thorson wrote: > > I bet you think that BernzOmatic processes their own > propane. Right? I bet that you think that everything with > their brand name on it is made by them. Right? Employees > hammering out metallic things, sticking them in plastic > packaging and heat-welding them shut...? I didn't write that. Don't be ascribing words to me that I didn't write, no matter how convenient you find it to be. |
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Mark Thorson wrote:
> "Bob (this one)" wrote: >> And I notice you had nothing to say to this: >> *NONE* of the BernzOmatic products had the California >> warning on them. *NONE* of the other similar products from >> other companies had the California warning on them, either. >> Not for propane, butane or MAPP gas. The cylinders >> themselves, of course, were so labeled. > > In what sense is a gas cylinder not a product? Mark, a gas cylinder is a product. I'm my original statement which I've tried to translate into Thorson-speak several times, I apparently haven't been able to make it simple enough. In the interests of a wild curiosity to see if you can grasp this, I hereby concede that I didn't write with perfect, uninterpretable clarity. And I apologize for that. I was trying to create a parallel with your assertion that the packaging of the Lighter didn't carry the warning by citing *all other* fuel-using products. Alas, my diction was imperfect. A gas cylinder is a product. You are correct in that statement. But that doesn't negate the simple fact that *only* the cylinders carry the California warning. The BernzOmatic products that use fuel cylinders aren't so marked. Competitive products from other companies also lack that warning. What is your conclusion from that series of facts? > The one I have has a UPC bar code on it. > UPC stands for "Universal Product Code". > It is a product. And it has the State of > California warning on it. Both the UPC > and the warning can be seen in the images > I posted to alt.binaries.food. > > Is this how you defend yourself? I don't need to defend myself. Have you forgotten that you began all this with your insane business about "food-grade" propane and have continued it to this Lighter, asserting that it's got a non-carcinogenic fuel because the packaging doesn't carry a California warning? Are you going to continue to evade dealing with the other products that I specifically sited with no California warning on them? Are you going to insist that they, too, have this non-carcinogenic fuel? > By redefining "product" to exclude > anything that exposes your words > as false? That is transparent nonsense, > but typical of you. Of course you have to say that, there's nothing else left. No evidence for food-grade fuels. Period. <LOL> I certainly hope you don't actually imagine that you have somehow made your case for food-grade fuels. Here's a sad, sad reality for you. No matter how wrong or right I might be about any facet, trivial or large, you have offered no substantive evidence for the existence of a food-grade fuel. Period. Period. It's all based on your mistaken belief that only the lighter has no California warning, and that it somehow signals a non-carcinogenic fuel. Both plainly false assumptions. You haven't contacted the best source of all - the manufacturer. You're still trying to make a phony assertion stand in the face of demolishing counter-information from *all* other posters. Nope. Pastorio |
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"Bob (this one)" wrote:
> > Mark Thorson wrote: > > "Bob (this one)" wrote: > >> And I notice you had nothing to say to this: > >> *NONE* of the BernzOmatic products had the California > >> warning on them. *NONE* of the other similar products from > >> other companies had the California warning on them, either. > >> Not for propane, butane or MAPP gas. The cylinders > >> themselves, of course, were so labeled. > > > > In what sense is a gas cylinder not a product? > > Mark, a gas cylinder is a product. Great! We're making progress here. You now admit that a gas cylinder is a product. Now, how do you reconcile that with your statement that: > *NONE* of BernzOmatic's products carry that warning. I posted images of the Bernzomatic BF9 refill to alt.binaries.food, which show that it is marked with the State of California warning. Did you see those images? Do you deny that they show that the product is marked with the warning? You are not being consistent. Did you learn nothing from Henry Kissinger's advice on telling the truth? |
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Peter A wrote:
> >> > You guys are going to be the poster children for the "Save the Morons" > foundation. > How first charitable act will be to teach morons how to filter topics or, even easier, skip messages. |
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![]() Mark Thorson wrote: > "Bob (this one)" wrote: > > > > And I notice you had nothing to say to this: > > *NONE* of the BernzOmatic products had the California > > warning on them. *NONE* of the other similar products from > > other companies had the California warning on them, either. > > Not for propane, butane or MAPP gas. The cylinders > > themselves, of course, were so labeled. > > In what sense is a gas cylinder not a product? > The one I have has a UPC bar code on it. > UPC stands for "Universal Product Code". > It is a product. And it has the State of > California warning on it. Both the UPC > and the warning can be seen in the images > I posted to alt.binaries.food. > > Is this how you defend yourself? > By redefining "product" to exclude > anything that exposes your words > as false? That is transparent nonsense, > but typical of you. Subject line changed... And I have to add that this is one of rfc's more BORING "feuds"... -- Best Greg |
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On 11 Jan 2007 23:21:31 -0800, "Gregory Morrow"
> wrote: > >Mark Thorson wrote: > >> "Bob (this one)" wrote: >> > <snip> > > >Subject line changed... > >And I have to add that this is one of rfc's more BORING "feuds"... Oh, thanks.... you did it so those of us who killed the subject(s) get to see more? Whoopeee. -- See return address to reply by email |
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Gregory Morrow wrote:
> Subject line changed... This what passes for wit back at the redneck saloon...? > And I have to add that this is one of rfc's more BORING "feuds"... <LOL> This is a hilarious observation. Apparently you're reading all the posts while whining about how boring it all is. The "fuel feud" is over with my posting of the components of the fuel as explained by the company that peddles the product. No "food-grade" anything. All the carcinogens still in there. Done. Pastorio |
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