Has anybody made this a second time after the initial rush last month?

I just took mine out of the oven, and I have to say I'm less than
impressed. It's maybe an inch high, and I'm betting it has the texture
of a hockey puck.



Dawn

I made it and mine turned out great. I let it rest and rise the whole 18
hours. I don't know if that helped or not?

Debbie

"Dawn" > wrote in message
...
> Has anybody made this a second time after the initial rush last month?
>
> I just took mine out of the oven, and I have to say I'm less than
> impressed. It's maybe an inch high, and I'm betting it has the texture of
> a hockey puck.
>
>
>
> Dawn
>

Dawn wrote:
> Has anybody made this a second time after the initial rush last month?
>
> I just took mine out of the oven, and I have to say I'm less than
> impressed. It's maybe an inch high, and I'm betting it has the texture
> of a hockey puck.
>
>
>
> Dawn

It ain't gonna work, Dawn. Kneading distributes the yeast through the
rest of the ingredients, mainly all of that heavy flour. Bread taketh
time. And two risings.

On 10 Dec 2006 23:12:12 -0800, "The Usual Suspect" >
wrote:

>
>Dawn wrote:
>> Has anybody made this a second time after the initial rush last month?
>>
>> I just took mine out of the oven, and I have to say I'm less than
>> impressed. It's maybe an inch high, and I'm betting it has the texture
>> of a hockey puck.
>>
>>
>>
>> Dawn
>
>It ain't gonna work, Dawn. Kneading distributes the yeast through the
>rest of the ingredients, mainly all of that heavy flour. Bread taketh
>time. And two risings.

I would refer you to several things that tend to disprove your
statement, and Dawns experience.

First, the eGullet thread that has been going on since this article
came out:
http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showtopic=95345&hl=

I am thinking that Dawn might get some good info from this thread.

Other noted bakers such as Peter Reinhardt and Rose Levy Beranbaum are
also experimenting with this method..as well as David Lebowitz... They
are not discounting it..and are actually very excited about it...

http://peterreinhart.typepad.com/

http://www.realbakingwithrose.com/20...oly_bread.html

Christine

The Usual Suspect wrote:
> Dawn wrote:
>> Has anybody made this a second time after the initial rush last month?
>>
>> I just took mine out of the oven, and I have to say I'm less than
>> impressed. It's maybe an inch high, and I'm betting it has the texture
>> of a hockey puck.
>>
>>
>>
>> Dawn
>
> It ain't gonna work, Dawn. Kneading distributes the yeast through the
> rest of the ingredients, mainly all of that heavy flour.

It does work and it's nothing new to use highly hydrated
doughs like this. Kneading is less for any sort of
distribution than to develop gluten. By mixing the dry
ingredients in advance - a time-honored technique - the
distribution issue is virtually solved, and the later
folding makes sure it is. By using a very wet dough, the
gluten aligns itself with no necessity for kneading. It's
precisely the fact of a very wet dough that negates the need
for kneading.

> Bread taketh time. And two risings.

This approach takes a minimum of 18 hours and two risings
for success.

It most assuredly works, but it also needs a bit of fiddling
to suit the particular kitchen and baker.

Pastorio

Dawn wrote:
> Has anybody made this a second time after the initial rush last month?
>
> I just took mine out of the oven, and I have to say I'm less than
> impressed. It's maybe an inch high, and I'm betting it has the texture
> of a hockey puck.
>
>
>
> Dawn

My third loaf rose to three or four inches, not quite flatbread but not
a great boule
either. It must be the cracker-like crust that makes this method
attractive; crumb's
good too with lots of holes. I keep cutting back on water to make dough
manageable
and am spraying the hot pot to make the loaf removeable. Speaking of
the hot pot,
anybody remember Unguentine (sp)? It may have come in GI first aid
kits we kids
bought at army surplus stores.

"stark" > wrote in
> anybody remember Unguentine (sp)? It may have come in GI
> first aid kits we kids
> bought at army surplus stores.

Yup, I remember Unguentine. But not from first aid kits.
We bought it over the counter.

stark wrote:

> My third loaf rose to three or four inches, not quite
> flatbread but not a great boule either. It must be the
> cracker-like crust that makes this method attractive;
> crumb's good too with lots of holes.

The crust should be crisp like a good French boule, not
cracker-like. There are several critical points in the
recipe: fully moistening the flour at the beginning; letting
it develop for at least 12 hours, but more like 18-20 is
better; pulling it into a ball; letting it rise that second
time; getting it into a hot enough pot with a lid to bake;
finishing it uncovered. You're probably letting it bake too
long uncovered. Try using a thermometer to see when the
bread is done - 208F.

Right-sized pot matters, too. Too big and the dough spreads
out too far.

> I keep cutting back
> on water to make dough manageable and am spraying the hot
> pot to make the loaf removeable.

Exactly what you shouldn't be doing. It's the heavy
hydration that is the effective substitute for kneading. The
gluten strands need a lot of liquid to move into alignment.
Cutting back on water means that you won't get the gluten
development and, therefore, the gas retention to get a good
rise and a good oven-shoot from the dough. Making the dough
more manageable makes it less likely to work properly. You
shouldn't need to spray the hot pot. If you do, chances are
the pot isn't hot enough. At least 450F oven temp with a
good half-hour heating time.

Probably good to go back and see the original and updates to
see where it's evolved to.

Pastorio

I've made it probably half a dozen times now, and it's come out pretty
well every time. It's turned out a little differently each time
because I keep experimenting with variations, but it's been good
nonetheless. The dough really needs to be quite wet after the first
rise, with a lot of bubbles on the surface. I've let it rise as long
as 24 hours. If it's too wet, I add whatever extra AP flour I need
when I shape it in order to make it manageable.

The last few times I've made it with (generously measured) 1 cup whole
wheat and 2 cups all-purpose flour, and that works really well. In
combination with using part ww flour, I've scaled the water back
slightly to 1 1/2 cups to make the dough a bit easier to work with.
I'm also setting the oven temperature to 500F. I tried 525 once, and
that scorched the bottom of the loaf a bit too much.

Pat



Dawn wrote:
> Has anybody made this a second time after the initial rush last month?
>
> I just took mine out of the oven, and I have to say I'm less than
> impressed. It's maybe an inch high, and I'm betting it has the texture
> of a hockey puck.
>
>
>
> Dawn

Dawn wrote:
> Has anybody made this a second time after the initial rush last month?
>
> I just took mine out of the oven, and I have to say I'm less than
> impressed. It's maybe an inch high, and I'm betting it has the texture
> of a hockey puck.

I've made it three times. The rise was insufficient once. I
considered the other two quite successful. A few more times and I
think I'll have learned what the right flour/water ratio looks like.
I'd suspect yours needed a little more flour.

The reason I think it's worth trying again is that the taste and
texture (crumb) are close to the "ideal" of a French baguette, which
notoriously takes a lot of work and skill, whereas this takes a lot of
time and almost no work. -aem

On 11 Dec 2006 08:15:12 -0800, "aem" > wrote:

>
>Dawn wrote:
>> Has anybody made this a second time after the initial rush last month?
>>
>> I just took mine out of the oven, and I have to say I'm less than
>> impressed. It's maybe an inch high, and I'm betting it has the texture
>> of a hockey puck.
>
>I've made it three times. The rise was insufficient once. I
>considered the other two quite successful. A few more times and I
>think I'll have learned what the right flour/water ratio looks like.
>I'd suspect yours needed a little more flour.
>
>The reason I think it's worth trying again is that the taste and
>texture (crumb) are close to the "ideal" of a French baguette, which
>notoriously takes a lot of work and skill, whereas this takes a lot of
>time and almost no work. -aem


I have made it at least a dozen times, with various flours in
combination, and enjoyed success, but I bake all our bread anyway,
and the technique in not so very different from some breads I already
make.

We lost power one day in between baking two loaves and I baked the
second loaf on the gas grill. It was a tad overdone on the bottom, but
delightful nevertheless.

I do not consider the look, taste or texture of this method to be
close to a French baguette, though.

Boron

In article >, d-
says...
> Has anybody made this a second time after the initial rush last month?
>
> I just took mine out of the oven, and I have to say I'm less than
> impressed. It's maybe an inch high, and I'm betting it has the texture
> of a hockey puck.

If it's an inch high then you did something wrong.

The no-knead bread is a perfectly good recipe but, in my experience, it
gives you a certain "type" of bread and nothing else. Anyway, what's so
hard about kneading?

--
Peter Aitken
Visit my recipe and kitchen myths pages at www.pgacon.com/cooking.htm

On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 17:11:06 GMT, Peter A >
wrote:

>In article >, d-
says...
>> Has anybody made this a second time after the initial rush last month?
>>
>> I just took mine out of the oven, and I have to say I'm less than
>> impressed. It's maybe an inch high, and I'm betting it has the texture
>> of a hockey puck.
>
>If it's an inch high then you did something wrong.
>
>The no-knead bread is a perfectly good recipe but, in my experience, it
>gives you a certain "type" of bread and nothing else. Anyway, what's so
>hard about kneading?


Nothing, but why do it if it isn't necessary? For many recipes stretch
and fold is all that is needed, and in fact, improves the results one
would get with kneading.

Boron

>>
>>If it's an inch high then you did something wrong.

Obviously. It had way too much water in it.


>>
>>The no-knead bread is a perfectly good recipe but, in my experience, it
>>gives you a certain "type" of bread and nothing else. Anyway, what's so
>>hard about kneading?

There's that exquisite arthritic pain in my knuckles, for starters. I've
been using a bread machine for a few years, but I'm not happy with the
texture of that either.



Dawn

Dawn wrote:

>>> If it's an inch high then you did something wrong.
>
> Obviously. It had way too much water in it.

More likely, not enough water. Too much water won't cause it
to be flat. But not enough water means not enough gluten
structure which means not enough gas retention which means
flat breads.

Pastorio


>>> The no-knead bread is a perfectly good recipe but, in my experience,
>>> it gives you a certain "type" of bread and nothing else. Anyway,
>>> what's so hard about kneading?
>
> There's that exquisite arthritic pain in my knuckles, for starters. I've
> been using a bread machine for a few years, but I'm not happy with the
> texture of that either.
>
>
>
> Dawn
>
>
>

On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 03:35:44 GMT, Dawn >
wrote:

>Has anybody made this a second time after the initial rush last month?

I've made it six or eight times. We really like it.

Serene
--
"I can't decide if I feel more like four ten-year-olds or ten four-year-olds." Laurie Anderson , on turning 40.

http://serenejournal.livejournal.com

Serene > wrote in
news
> On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 03:35:44 GMT, Dawn >
> wrote:
>
>>Has anybody made this a second time after the initial rush last month?
>
> I've made it six or eight times. We really like it.
>


Give the Damper a try sometime :-)


--
Peter Lucas
Brisbane
Australia

'Enjoy today, it was paid for by a veteran'

http://www.beccycole.com/albums/vide...ter_girl.shtml

PeterL wrote:
> Serene > wrote in
> news >
>> On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 03:35:44 GMT, Dawn >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Has anybody made this a second time after the initial rush last month?
>> I've made it six or eight times. We really like it.
>>
> Give the Damper a try sometime :-)

<LOL> I agree...

Pastorio

"Serene" > ha scritto nel messaggio
news
> On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 03:35:44 GMT, Dawn >
> wrote:
>
>>Has anybody made this a second time after the initial rush last month?
>
> I've made it six or eight times. We really like it.
>
> Serene
> --
> "I can't decide if I feel more like four ten-year-olds or ten
> four-year-olds." Laurie Anderson , on turning 40.
>
> http://serenejournal.livejournal.com

Serene! Have you done the bread 8 times, really?
Tell me , I want to know how you put the liquid dough into the cloth.
Pleaseeeee!

--
Merry Christmas
Pandora

Pandora wrote:
> "Serene" > ha scritto nel messaggio
> news
>> On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 03:35:44 GMT, Dawn >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Has anybody made this a second time after the initial rush last month?
>> I've made it six or eight times. We really like it.
>>
>> Serene
>> --
>> "I can't decide if I feel more like four ten-year-olds or ten
>> four-year-olds." Laurie Anderson , on turning 40.
>>
>> http://serenejournal.livejournal.com
>
> Serene! Have you done the bread 8 times, really?
> Tell me , I want to know how you put the liquid dough into the cloth.
> Pleaseeeee!
>

<Big sigh>

--
"All of those faeries and duels and mad queens and so on, and no one
quoted old Billy Shakespeare. Not even once.'"
- The Dresden Files

> Pandora wrote:
>>
>> Tell me , I want to know how you put the liquid dough into the cloth.

It is not liquid. It is very soft. The dough can not be
handled like a normal one.

The ingredient weights a
430 gm flour
8 gm salt
1 gm yeast
345 ml water
Mix the dry ingredients together and then add the water. Mix
well until all the flour is wet. Cover with plastic wrap and
let sit 18 hours - up to 24 hours.

Dump the dough onto a floured work surface and fold the ends
on top of the middle. Put a lot of flour on a smooth towel
and put the dough seam-side down. Sprinkle dough with flour
and cover with towel. Let rise two hours.

Heat oven and baking container to 235C for 1/2 hour.

Slide your hand under the towel and dump the dough into the
hot container and cover. Quickly put bread container back
into the oven. Bake covered for 30 minutes. Remove cover and
bake for 20 to 30 more minutes.

Pastorio

Pandora wrote:
>
> Serene! Have you done the bread 8 times, really?
> Tell me , I want to know how you put the liquid dough into the cloth.
> Pleaseeeee!
>

Pandora, what kind of flour are you using? My first batch was 'liquid'
too, and after doing some reading I think I figured out I was using the
wrong flour. I've got a 2nd batch that will go in the oven in about 4
hours, made with a high protein flour, and it is looking much better.
Soft, but not liquid.


Dawn

"Dawn" > ha scritto nel messaggio
ups.com...
>
> Pandora wrote:
>>
>> Serene! Have you done the bread 8 times, really?
>> Tell me , I want to know how you put the liquid dough into the cloth.
>> Pleaseeeee!
>>
>
> Pandora, what kind of flour are you using? My first batch was 'liquid'
> too, and after doing some reading I think I figured out I was using the
> wrong flour. I've got a 2nd batch that will go in the oven in about 4
> hours, made with a high protein flour, and it is looking much better.
> Soft, but not liquid.

But many person here told me it must be liquid!!!???!!!
I have used all purpose flour. I don't know.
Btw I would like to see some pics when somebody make it
Btw. Thank you for your answer
cheers

--
Merry Christmas
Pandora

Pandora wrote:

>
> But many person here told me it must be liquid!!!???!!!
> I have used all purpose flour. I don't know.
> Btw I would like to see some pics when somebody make it
> Btw. Thank you for your answer
> cheers

What's the protein content of your flour? It'll be on the side panel.
Something like 3g per 1/4 cup? That's not going to cut it. If your
bread isn't working then there isn't enough protein in your flour. "All
purpose" flour is a crapshoot, you never know what you're going to get,
it can vary from 2.5 to 3.4 depending on the time of year and where you
live and they can round it to 3 on the label.

Find yourself some "unbleached" AP flour or some bread flour. It'll say
4g protein per 1/4 cup. Try that. It will start of looking pretty wet,
but it will end up being bread in the end.


Dawn

In article >, "Pandora" >
wrote:

> "Serene" > ha scritto nel messaggio
> news
> > On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 03:35:44 GMT, Dawn >
> > wrote:
> >
> >>Has anybody made this a second time after the initial rush last month?
> >
> > I've made it six or eight times. We really like it.
> >
> > Serene
> > --
> > "I can't decide if I feel more like four ten-year-olds or ten
> > four-year-olds." Laurie Anderson , on turning 40.
> >
> > http://serenejournal.livejournal.com
>
> Serene! Have you done the bread 8 times, really?
> Tell me , I want to know how you put the liquid dough into the cloth.
> Pleaseeeee!

The second time I made it I didn't bother with the cloth. I left the
blob of dough on the silicone kneading pad and covered it with parchment
paper. The blob went into the hot pot with much less resistance.

Cindy

--
C.J. Fuller

Delete the obvious to email me

Cindy Fuller > wrote:

> The second time I made it I didn't bother with the cloth. I left the
> blob of dough on the silicone kneading pad and covered it with parchment
> paper. The blob went into the hot pot with much less resistance.

I was turning it out onto a floured wooden board, letting it rise under
gladwrap, then flopping it into the pot.

Getting lazier with time, I then started doing the second rise straight
in the mixing bowl, with a little flouring.

Last time I did it, I didn't even bother with a second rise (the timing
didn't quite work out), just did an extra long first rise and slopped it
into the hot pot.

Every time, it's come out just great. I've made it with bread mix
(adding no salt to that one), bread flour, and plain flour, which I
gather is approximately the same as USAn "all purpose". The bread
mix/bread flour loaves have come out a little better, but there's not a
lot in it. Maybe I just lucked out with good plain flour.

Lara

Lara > wrote:

>I was turning it out onto a floured wooden board, letting it rise under
>gladwrap, then flopping it into the pot.

>Getting lazier with time, I then started doing the second rise straight
>in the mixing bowl, with a little flouring.

>Last time I did it, I didn't even bother with a second rise (the timing
>didn't quite work out), just did an extra long first rise and slopped it
>into the hot pot.

>Every time, it's come out just great.

Seems reasonable. I'm not sure which no-knead bread approach
you guys are talking about, but I have used the one from Fannie
Farmer: combine all the ingredients except for about one fourth
of the flour; stir vigorously with a wooden spoon until it starts
to become glutinous; then mix in the remaining flour and proceed
in the usual fashion with rising and baking.

Steve

"Cindy Fuller" > ha scritto nel messaggio
...
> In article >, "Pandora" >
> wrote:
>
>> "Serene" > ha scritto nel messaggio
>> news
>> > On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 03:35:44 GMT, Dawn >
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >>Has anybody made this a second time after the initial rush last month?
>> >
>> > I've made it six or eight times. We really like it.
>> >
>> > Serene
>> > --
>> > "I can't decide if I feel more like four ten-year-olds or ten
>> > four-year-olds." Laurie Anderson , on turning 40.
>> >
>> > http://serenejournal.livejournal.com
>>
>> Serene! Have you done the bread 8 times, really?
>> Tell me , I want to know how you put the liquid dough into the cloth.
>> Pleaseeeee!
>
> The second time I made it I didn't bother with the cloth. I left the
> blob of dough on the silicone kneading pad and covered it with parchment
> paper. The blob went into the hot pot with much less resistance.
>
> Cindy

Thank you, but if the recipe says:" Make a ball with the dough" I assume it
isn't so liquid...

--
Merry Christmas
Pandora

Pandora wrote:
> "Cindy Fuller" > ha scritto nel messaggio
> ...
>> In article >, "Pandora" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> "Serene" > ha scritto nel messaggio
>>> news >>>> On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 03:35:44 GMT, Dawn >
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Has anybody made this a second time after the initial rush last month?
>>>> I've made it six or eight times. We really like it.
>>>>
>>>> Serene
>>>> --
>>>> "I can't decide if I feel more like four ten-year-olds or ten
>>>> four-year-olds." Laurie Anderson , on turning 40.
>>>>
>>>> http://serenejournal.livejournal.com
>>> Serene! Have you done the bread 8 times, really?
>>> Tell me , I want to know how you put the liquid dough into the cloth.
>>> Pleaseeeee!
>> The second time I made it I didn't bother with the cloth. I left the
>> blob of dough on the silicone kneading pad and covered it with parchment
>> paper. The blob went into the hot pot with much less resistance.
>>
>> Cindy
>
> Thank you, but if the recipe says:" Make a ball with the dough" I assume it
> isn't so liquid...
>

If you follow the directions of the recipe it won't be.

--
"All of those faeries and duels and mad queens and so on, and no one
quoted old Billy Shakespeare. Not even once.'"
- The Dresden Files

Cindy Fuller wrote:
> In article >, "Pandora" >
> wrote:
>
>> "Serene" > ha scritto nel messaggio
>> news
>>> On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 03:35:44 GMT, Dawn >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Has anybody made this a second time after the initial rush last month?
>>> I've made it six or eight times. We really like it.
>>>
>>> Serene
>>> --
>>> "I can't decide if I feel more like four ten-year-olds or ten
>>> four-year-olds." Laurie Anderson , on turning 40.
>>>
>>> http://serenejournal.livejournal.com
>> Serene! Have you done the bread 8 times, really?
>> Tell me , I want to know how you put the liquid dough into the cloth.
>> Pleaseeeee!
>
> The second time I made it I didn't bother with the cloth. I left the
> blob of dough on the silicone kneading pad and covered it with parchment
> paper. The blob went into the hot pot with much less resistance.
>
> Cindy
>

That's what I'm thinking of trying next time...I hate how icky the towel
gets after and I really don't see the point of this step.

--
"All of those faeries and duels and mad queens and so on, and no one
quoted old Billy Shakespeare. Not even once.'"
- The Dresden Files

On Fri, 22 Dec 2006 08:09:03 -0500, Ravenlynne >
wrote:

>Cindy Fuller wrote:
>> In article >, "Pandora" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> "Serene" > ha scritto nel messaggio
>>> news >>>> On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 03:35:44 GMT, Dawn >
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Has anybody made this a second time after the initial rush last month?
>>>> I've made it six or eight times. We really like it.
>>>>
>>>> Serene
>>>> --
>>>> "I can't decide if I feel more like four ten-year-olds or ten
>>>> four-year-olds." Laurie Anderson , on turning 40.
>>>>
>>>> http://serenejournal.livejournal.com
>>> Serene! Have you done the bread 8 times, really?
>>> Tell me , I want to know how you put the liquid dough into the cloth.
>>> Pleaseeeee!
>>
>> The second time I made it I didn't bother with the cloth. I left the
>> blob of dough on the silicone kneading pad and covered it with parchment
>> paper. The blob went into the hot pot with much less resistance.
>>
>> Cindy
>>
>
>That's what I'm thinking of trying next time...I hate how icky the towel
>gets after and I really don't see the point of this step.

I put it on my flexible plastic cutting board on a HEAP of cornmeal,
and it never sticks.

Serene
--
"I can't decide if I feel more like four ten-year-olds or ten four-year-olds." Laurie Anderson , on turning 40.

http://serenejournal.livejournal.com