I can't believe I made a decision on kitchen counter tops - yesterday. It
had been between granite and granite ;-) but my final decision was Cambria.
Cost did not enter into my decision as everything I considered was close
enough to not make a real difference. The salesman said that houses that
have granite counters sell better, but we won't be selling, so that was not
a consideration either.

I told him that I was having just as hard time making a decision on
flooring, and here is what he told me as far as tones/colors for me so that
they would look the best for my medium-dark cherry cabinets.

Flooring should be lighter than cabinets.

Flooring should be darker than counter tops.



It seemed that he had this axiom on the tip of his tongue. I'm wondering if
this is a general rule. I had not heard this before.



***

I am having an overhang come out about 9-10 inches, so as to put a
convenient stool for my laptop at the end of the counter.

I had not expected to get a new sink, but will have one mounted flush with
the counter. 16 gauge ss makes me happy.



Dee

Hadn't heard those lines but it made me think. Our apartment has an OK
kitchen (we moved in a couple of years ago and it's not bad enough for us to
justify renovating yet). The counters are black granite, which is
wonderful. There are flecks of other colours, which make it interesting
I've never had marble before but couldn't have anything else now. The
floors are white and black marble and look great, until you need to find
something you've dropped (try finding coffee beans, which I seem to spill
regularly!). So we have black counters, white cupboards then black and
white floors - the flooring is darker than the cupboards and lighter than
the counters - the reverse of your advice! But we like it!!

"Dee Dee" > wrote in message
...
>I can't believe I made a decision on kitchen counter tops - yesterday. It
>had been between granite and granite ;-) but my final decision was
>Cambria. Cost did not enter into my decision as everything I considered was
>close enough to not make a real difference. The salesman said that houses
>that have granite counters sell better, but we won't be selling, so that
>was not a consideration either.
>
> I told him that I was having just as hard time making a decision on
> flooring, and here is what he told me as far as tones/colors for me so
> that they would look the best for my medium-dark cherry cabinets.
>
> Flooring should be lighter than cabinets.
>
> Flooring should be darker than counter tops.
>
>
>
> It seemed that he had this axiom on the tip of his tongue. I'm wondering
> if this is a general rule. I had not heard this before.
>
>
>
> ***
>
> I am having an overhang come out about 9-10 inches, so as to put a
> convenient stool for my laptop at the end of the counter.
>
> I had not expected to get a new sink, but will have one mounted flush with
> the counter. 16 gauge ss makes me happy.
>
>
>
> Dee
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 00:34:37 -0400, "Dee Dee" >
wrote:

>Flooring should be lighter than cabinets.
>
>Flooring should be darker than counter tops.
>
>
>
>It seemed that he had this axiom on the tip of his tongue. I'm wondering if
>this is a general rule. I had not heard this before.
>
>

Who made UP those rules? Nonsense......if you are going to live in
your kitchen, you pick YOUR colors. That damn salesperson will
never spend a night in your house...let alone be using your kitchen
for the next 20 years!

On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 00:34:37 -0400, "Dee Dee" >
wrote:

>I had not expected to get a new sink, but will have one mounted flush with
>the counter. 16 gauge ss makes me happy.
>

I chose Silestone...and they had a free undermount sink offer. Cambria
might also have that offer. Don't get anything but an undermount
sink. I love mine. It is so easy to wipe everything into the bowl
and nothing catching on the lip of the sink.

On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 00:34:37 -0400, "Dee Dee" >
wrote:

>I can't believe I made a decision on kitchen counter tops - yesterday. It
>had been between granite and granite ;-) but my final decision was Cambria.
>Cost did not enter into my decision as everything I considered was close
>enough to not make a real difference. The salesman said that houses that
>have granite counters sell better, but we won't be selling, so that was not
>a consideration either.

Do you have a crystal ball?

>
>I told him that I was having just as hard time making a decision on
>flooring, and here is what he told me as far as tones/colors for me so that
>they would look the best for my medium-dark cherry cabinets.
>
>Flooring should be lighter than cabinets.
>
>Flooring should be darker than counter tops.


So what flooring do I use with my white cabinets? The oak floors are
darker than the white countertop so that must be ok.
--
Susan N.

"Moral indignation is in most cases two percent moral,
48 percent indignation, and 50 percent envy."
Vittorio De Sica, Italian movie director (1901-1974)

On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 00:34:37 -0400, "Dee Dee" > wrote:

>I can't believe I made a decision on kitchen counter tops - yesterday. It
>had been between granite and granite ;-) but my final decision was Cambria.
>Cost did not enter into my decision as everything I considered was close
>enough to not make a real difference. The salesman said that houses that
>have granite counters sell better, but we won't be selling, so that was not
>a consideration either.

So what did tip the scales in favor of Cambria?

>I told him that I was having just as hard time making a decision on
>flooring, and here is what he told me as far as tones/colors for me so that
>they would look the best for my medium-dark cherry cabinets.
>
>Flooring should be lighter than cabinets.
>
>Flooring should be darker than counter tops.
>
>It seemed that he had this axiom on the tip of his tongue. I'm wondering if
>this is a general rule. I had not heard this before.

That's because he made it up. 8 It makes no sense -- what color flooring
would go with white cabinets, which are very popular? Or black granite counters?

>I am having an overhang come out about 9-10 inches, so as to put a
>convenient stool for my laptop at the end of the counter.

....and an electrical outlet there too?

>I had not expected to get a new sink, but will have one mounted flush with
>the counter. 16 gauge ss makes me happy.

By flush, do you mean undermounted? That is very convenient for cleanup, and
should work well with the relatively thin lip of the SS sink.

Congratulations on the decisions!

-- Larry

"pltrgyst" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 00:34:37 -0400, "Dee Dee" >
> wrote:
>
>>I can't believe I made a decision on kitchen counter tops - yesterday. It
>>had been between granite and granite ;-) but my final decision was
>>Cambria.

>
> So what did tip the scales in favor of Cambria?

Hmm - I believe for me, it was the fact that wine might/will stain (we open
a few around here); turmeric, etc. the fact that I probably wasn't going to
buy from HD and their supplier Innovative Stone, which I felt was the
granite product I wanted, and not available elsewhere. I don't ever want to
put any chemicals/i.e. sealant on a slab of stone. Zodiaq looked too close
to wall-to-wall color with not enough variation, so it had to be Cambria
because of their patterns. Still it is not close to the beauty that granite
is. My heart still goes to granite. DH for some reason thinks that granite
is cheap looking; I can't understand that in my wildest imagination.

>
>>I told him that I was having just as hard time making a decision on
>>flooring, and here is what he told me as far as tones/colors for me so
>>that
>>they would look the best for my medium-dark cherry cabinets.
I had not heard this before.

I was wondering if this is a general rule and that's why I asked about it.
But he was advising me on my cabinets (for me) (for my cabinets) when I
asked him the question.
But he answered it so quickly, I wondered if this was a general rule. From
what I gather from the responses,
it is not a general rule, but just was advice for me.

> That's because he made it up. 8

Too funny!

>>I am having an overhang come out about 9-10 inches, so as to put a
>>convenient stool for my laptop at the end of the counter.
>
> ...and an electrical outlet there too?

Oh, poop! Darn, Where's my head! More thought! Thanks for the reminder!
Duly noted!


Yes, the sink will be undermounted. DH thought it would not be possible for
a new one because of the reverse osmosis under the
sink. Let's hope it works. I opted for the larger sink and smaller sink
side-by-side; I've had this before. But this one there is not
so much disparity between the sizes.

>
> Congratulations on the decisions!

Thanks. I know you mean it. You went thru it yourself. Although you
seemed much more decisive.

They called this morning for the template appointment. We had to put it off
until the 2nd of August
as we made other plans anticipating that it wouldn't be so soon. Damn! You
can't out-think these things.
Dee Dee

On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 13:19:00 -0400, "Dee Dee" > wrote:

>Hmm - I believe for me, it was the fact that wine might/will stain (we open
>a few around here); turmeric, etc.

Well, we open about 10 bottles a week, mostly red, and the first year has gone
by without incident (knock on whatever...) I think that before I re-seal the
granite, I'm going to apply a little Zinfandel in an out-of-eyesight spot, just
to see how it takes.

I hadn't particularly thought about turmeric or saffron, which we use a lot of.
I've been more careful about acids, like lemon juice -- but then I generally
cook with a towel over my shoulder and a grunge sponge close at hand.

>... the fact that I probably wasn't going to
>buy from HD and their supplier Innovative Stone, which I felt was the
>granite product I wanted, and not available elsewhere.

I can understand that. But despite our scheduling problems, the local Innovative
Stone contractor was definitely an old-world craftsman. He did great work.

>I don't ever want to put any chemicals/i.e. sealant on a slab of stone.

I'm about to do our first sealant job. I don't expect it to take over a
half-hour, total. Just wipe it on, and let it dry. Of course, the new Innovative
Stone ten-year sealed granite came out just after our job was finished. 8

>.. so it had to be Cambria
>because of their patterns. Still it is not close to the beauty that granite
>is. My heart still goes to granite.

The Cambria looks really nice, IMO. The only caveat on the fabricated quartz is
its greater sensitivity to shock, so don't drop your heavy cast iron pans on it!
8 BTW, which color/pattern did you decide on?

> DH for some reason thinks that granite
>is cheap looking; I can't understand that in my wildest imagination.

Wow, me either.

>> Congratulations on the decisions!
>
>Thanks. I know you mean it. You went thru it yourself. Although you
>seemed much more decisive.

Well, that's just me -- I can see things and visualize how they'll go together
pretty much instantly. So I go in, look around, and order what I want in one
visit. My wife, otoh, is the type that wants to take samples home and stare at
them for a week, consult six friends, look at design magazines, etc. before
making a decision. We do bump heads occasionally. 8

But I will say that she is very pleased with how our kitchen came out. And she
was particularly skeptical about the flooring until it was installed.

But I can understand caution when you're spending so much money on a job, and
you want some sort of assurance that it will be satisfying in the end.

>They called this morning for the template appointment. We had to put it off
>until the 2nd of August as we made other plans anticipating that it wouldn't
>be so soon. Damn! You can't out-think these things.

That's only a few days. Keep us current on progress -- we are interested. Hope
it all goes smoothly.

-- Larry

"Ward Abbott" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 00:34:37 -0400, "Dee Dee" >
> wrote:
>
>>Flooring should be lighter than cabinets.
>>
>>Flooring should be darker than counter tops.
>>
>>
>>
>>It seemed that he had this axiom on the tip of his tongue. I'm wondering
>>if
>>this is a general rule. I had not heard this before.
>>
>>
>
> Who made UP those rules? Nonsense......if you are going to live in
> your kitchen, you pick YOUR colors. That damn salesperson will
> never spend a night in your house...let alone be using your kitchen
> for the next 20 years!
>

Some of those "rules" come from what is appealing to the majority of people.
Darker colors on the lower portions of a room generally give a more pleasing
look. There will always be exceptions.

In furniture design, the golden ratio is often adhere to for similar
reasons. the golden ratio = 1.61803399 This is supposed to be the most
eye pleasing ratio when dividing drawers in a cabinet for instance. with the
larger ones on the bottom. Take a look at any chest of drawers and if they
have two or three sizes, they always get smaller to the top. Visualize the
opposite and it won't seem quite right.

You are correct that it is your house, do what you want, but do take a
little time to visualize it to be sure. While something may look slick
today, will it still appeal to you in five or fifteen years? Countertops
are not changed as easily as a beehive hairdo or long sideburn.

The golden section is a certain length that is divided in such a way that
the ratio of the longer part to the whole is the same as the ratio of the
shorter part to the longer part.
Line AB is divided so that the ratio of AC to AB is the same as the ratio of
CB to AC. If AC is 1.000, then AB becomes 1.618, the golden mean.

Examples here http://mathforum.org/dr.math/faq/faq.golden.ratio.html

"pltrgyst" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 13:19:00 -0400, "Dee Dee" >
> wrote:
> I'm about to do our first sealant job. I don't expect it to take over a
> half-hour, total. Just wipe it on, and let it dry. Of course, the new
> Innovative
> Stone ten-year sealed granite came out just after our job was finished.
> 8

I have been told regarding the 15-year sealed granite that one shouldn't
rely on it; but to go ahead and think about putting on the sealer. Perhaps
nothing really was lost in your case.
Let us know how the job went; particulary I'm interested (although it's moot
now) about any odor from the sealant; any noticeable excess slickness, etc.

Sort of off topic, but I've read/heard that cleansers such as the windex
that it not only cleans, but puts some sort of film on the window or
whatever, supposedly to keep dirt off. This sort of thing I've noticed on
windshields, too, whereas you have to take the whole film off at some point
and start from scratch. I noticed this on my black stovetop; that it cleans
up nice and shiny with the cleanser, but I'm cooking constantly and I'm not
big on instant cleanup, other than with soap & water, and my kitchen never
gets fashion plate, so it looked like that there was a film that started
showing; the best I can describe is kind of like the screen on a TV where
the black gets a bit scrambled when the settings are correct. Can't think
of the word that Paint Shop Pro uses for this sort of look to change a
picture -- sort of a Andy Warhol look. But this sort of wax-buildup and an
uneven buildup, or bas relief, if you will in the case of granite, is a
concern, be it somewhat minor; but it was nevertheless a concern.

>
> The Cambria looks really nice, IMO. The only caveat on the fabricated
> quartz is
> its greater sensitivity to shock, so don't drop your heavy cast iron pans
> on it!
> 8 BTW, which color/pattern did you decide on?

I'm glad that I 11-1/2x11-1/2" pad you recommended. I think I'll buy
another one for the other side of the stove. I worry more about dropping
the cast iron pans on the stove; pausing -- well, now I guess, since the
counter tops are the most problematic to replace and more expensive, that
now my attention will turn to the countertops ;-). But DH gets the heavy
pan cleanup; 'he' will have to be careful.

The pattern I chose was Lancaster - the typical speckled pattern, there are
several very similar in different tones, but this one does have a bit of
cherry red (which doesn't show up so well onlin) in it that will enhance the
color in my cabinets.
http://www.cambriausa.com/colordetai...name=Lancaster
Actually there are better looking colors, but they didn't seem to work.
http://www.cambriausa.com/design_palette.cfm

>Hope it all goes smoothly.

Me, too; thanks.

On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 23:21:21 -0400, "Dee Dee" > wrote:

>Let us know how the job went; particulary I'm interested (although it's moot
>now) about any odor from the sealant; any noticeable excess slickness, etc.

Will do.

>Sort of off topic, but I've read/heard that cleansers such as the windex
>that it not only cleans, but puts some sort of film on the window or
>whatever, supposedly to keep dirt off.

Hmm, I've never heard that. As a matter of fact, I've always found that
furniture sprays, like Pledge, build up over time, and the best way to remove
them is with Windex.

Anyway, Windex is a definite no-no on granite. Formula 409 works fine, though.

> I noticed this on my black stovetop; that it cleans
>up nice and shiny with the cleanser, but I'm cooking constantly and I'm not
>big on instant cleanup, other than with soap & water....

We get a lot of grease spatter and salt water specks on our black cooktop, and
find ourselves having to use the glass cooktop cleaner every couple of days.
It's a real pain compared to our previous black cooktop with white speckles all
over...

>The pattern I chose was Lancaster - the typical speckled pattern, there are
>several very similar in different tones, but this one does have a bit of
>cherry red (which doesn't show up so well onlin) in it that will enhance the
>color in my cabinets.
>http://www.cambriausa.com/colordetai...name=Lancaster

Looks nice. With medium-dark cherry, I would think that you could choose almost
any flooring lighter than your cabinets, and that countertop would pick up some
of the color in it.

-- Larry

"Edwin Pawlowski" > wrote in message
...

> The golden section is a certain length that is divided in such a way that
> the ratio of the longer part to the whole is the same as the ratio of the
> shorter part to the longer part.
> Line AB is divided so that the ratio of AC to AB is the same as the ratio
> of CB to AC. If AC is 1.000, then AB becomes 1.618, the golden mean.
>
> Examples here http://mathforum.org/dr.math/faq/faq.golden.ratio.html
I ran into the golden ratio when I was taking some art courses some years
ago.
It made my head spin, and my eyes roll back into their sockets, but I get
the concept. Thanks. I hadn't thought of it in relationship to this.
Dee Dee

On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 23:15:21 -0400, "Edwin Pawlowski" >
wrote:


>>>Flooring should be lighter than cabinets.
>>>
>>>Flooring should be darker than counter tops.

>Some of those "rules" come from what is appealing to the majority of people.
>Darker colors on the lower portions of a room generally give a more pleasing
>look. There will always be exceptions.


If flooring should be lighter than cabinets and flooring should be
darked than counter tops....what color is the floor if you have white
cabinets?


That entire "rule" was/is absurd. When a designer gets their
name on the deed and their checkbook pays for the balance due....they
get to choose anything.

Spewing that information is a disservice to the buying public.
Frankly, it sounded like something a "salesperson" from HD or Lowes
was trained to say to sound authoritative. Designing sense is not
their forte.

"Ward Abbott" > wrote in message
pleasing
>>look. There will always be exceptions.
>
>
> If flooring should be lighter than cabinets and flooring should be
> darked than counter tops....what color is the floor if you have white
> cabinets?

And that is why is wrote that there will be exceptions.




> That entire "rule" was/is absurd. When a designer gets their
> name on the deed and their checkbook pays for the balance due....they
> get to choose anything.
>
> Spewing that information is a disservice to the buying public.
> Frankly, it sounded like something a "salesperson" from HD or Lowes
> was trained to say to sound authoritative. Designing sense is not
> their forte.

No doubt the salesperson may be a twit, but there are many good designers
that can save homeowners from themselves. It has been years since I've done
any househunting, but I've seen kitchens and bathrooms that looked like they
were a circus or furnished with materials from the returned goods section of
the lumber yard.

The entire rule is not absurd at all. There is a basis in fact that in
many, probably most cases, it does look better. You can buy white carpeting
also, but I've never seen white carpets in a room with brown walls and a
black ceiling. But you can do it if you want. Is America great or what?

On Sat, 28 Jul 2007 13:11:36 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" >
wrote:

>but there are many good designers
>that can save homeowners from themselves.

Aah.....now there is the clue. It took a year for the OP to choose
a counter top....most likely by themself. Imagine how smoothly the
entire process could be become if the OP had hired a qualified
designer to steer them in the right direction. The entire process
from floors to cabinet knobs could have been selected in two weeks or
less.

"Dee Dee" > wrote in message
...
>
> "pltrgyst" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 00:34:37 -0400, "Dee Dee" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>>I can't believe I made a decision on kitchen counter tops - yesterday.
>>>It
>>>had been between granite and granite ;-) but my final decision was
>>>Cambria.
>
>>
>> So what did tip the scales in favor of Cambria?
>
> Hmm - I believe for me, it was the fact that wine might/will stain (we
> open a few around here); turmeric, etc. the fact that I probably wasn't
> going to buy from HD and their supplier Innovative Stone, which I felt was
> the granite product I wanted, and not available elsewhere. I don't ever
> want to put any chemicals/i.e. sealant on a slab of stone. Zodiaq looked
> too close to wall-to-wall color with not enough variation, so it had to be
> Cambria because of their patterns. Still it is not close to the beauty
> that granite is. My heart still goes to granite. DH for some reason
> thinks that granite is cheap looking; I can't understand that in my
> wildest imagination.
>
Hi Dee Dee,
We installed granite in our kitchen last October and have had no problems
with wine, gravy, tomato products or anything else staining the finish. We
put baking dishes right from the oven on the granite at times (when I forget
to grab a trivet first) and have not had any problems. I'm starting to
believe it's incredibly tough stuff.

We use Black Diamond brand granite cleaner which removes anything dried onto
the countertop. It leaves a mirror finish. When its clean, it looks amazing!
None of the other counter materials came close, IMHO.

BTW, many people tried to steer us away from granite, None of these people
had granite countertops in their house.

It took us 8 months to decide on which granite to use. We looked at granite
at 4 dealers before we decided on the stone we wanted. Then back to the same
dealers again (and 3 other dealers) for samples to get the *shade* of the
stone we were looking for! In the end we bought the stone from the kitchen
designer we were working with, as they had the shade that worked best with
our cabinets and floors. Had we done that in the first place and not been so
obsessed we would have saved ourselves days of driving and worrying.

Also, in the end we (unconsciously) chose the same granite a friend had put
in there kitchen 2 years ago.

Hope this helps,
Jon

"Zeppo" > wrote in message
...




>>
> Hi Dee Dee,
> We installed granite in our kitchen last October and have had no problems
> with wine, gravy, tomato products or anything else staining the finish. We
> put baking dishes right from the oven on the granite at times (when I
> forget to grab a trivet first) and have not had any problems. I'm starting
> to believe it's incredibly tough stuff.
>
> We use Black Diamond brand granite cleaner which removes anything dried
> onto the countertop. It leaves a mirror finish. When its clean, it looks
> amazing! None of the other counter materials came close, IMHO.
>
> BTW, many people tried to steer us away from granite, None of these people
> had granite countertops in their house.
>
> It took us 8 months to decide on which granite to use. We looked at
> granite at 4 dealers before we decided on the stone we wanted. Then back
> to the same dealers again (and 3 other dealers) for samples to get the
> *shade* of the stone we were looking for! In the end we bought the stone
> from the kitchen designer we were working with, as they had the shade that
> worked best with our cabinets and floors. Had we done that in the first
> place and not been so obsessed we would have saved ourselves days of
> driving and worrying.
>
> Also, in the end we (unconsciously) chose the same granite a friend had
> put in there kitchen 2 years ago.
>
> Hope this helps,
> Jon
Thanks, Jon.

I had written
DH for some reason
>> DH thinks that granite is cheap looking; I can't understand that in my
>> wildest imagination.

Good thing I've been married for neons, knowing my husband well. Here goes:

This weekend DH talked to (male) cousin who is remodeling a 150-year old
house in Maine. DH asked what he was using for countertops. Granite, of
course.
DH says, "Maybe we should take another look at granite; you know we don't
have to settle on it until they cut."
Here I go again! Template guy coming Friday.
As yet, I'm not sure whether templating will make a difference if it is
granite or Cambria.

However, I don't think I, me personally, would ever use ANYTHING to shine
up a surface I was cooking around/on. I did go to Black Diamond and check
their information. (I tried the shiny-up spray for the stove-top, and I'm
not sure that I'll use it again. - perhaps a little vinegar - but I
understand that's a no-no for granite?)

But I didn't see the Black Diamond ingredients, only their safety results,
and the fact that it is biodegradable.

Dee Dee

"Dee Dee" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Zeppo" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>
>
>
>>>
>> Hi Dee Dee,
>> We installed granite in our kitchen last October and have had no problems
>> with wine, gravy, tomato products or anything else staining the finish.
>> We put baking dishes right from the oven on the granite at times (when I
>> forget to grab a trivet first) and have not had any problems. I'm
>> starting to believe it's incredibly tough stuff.
>>
>> We use Black Diamond brand granite cleaner which removes anything dried
>> onto the countertop. It leaves a mirror finish. When its clean, it looks
>> amazing! None of the other counter materials came close, IMHO.
>>
>> BTW, many people tried to steer us away from granite, None of these
>> people had granite countertops in their house.
>>
>> It took us 8 months to decide on which granite to use. We looked at
>> granite at 4 dealers before we decided on the stone we wanted. Then back
>> to the same dealers again (and 3 other dealers) for samples to get the
>> *shade* of the stone we were looking for! In the end we bought the stone
>> from the kitchen designer we were working with, as they had the shade
>> that worked best with our cabinets and floors. Had we done that in the
>> first place and not been so obsessed we would have saved ourselves days
>> of driving and worrying.
>>
>> Also, in the end we (unconsciously) chose the same granite a friend had
>> put in there kitchen 2 years ago.
>>
>> Hope this helps,
>> Jon
> Thanks, Jon.
>
> I had written
> DH for some reason
>>> DH thinks that granite is cheap looking; I can't understand that in my
>>> wildest imagination.
>
> Good thing I've been married for neons, knowing my husband well. Here
> goes:
>
> This weekend DH talked to (male) cousin who is remodeling a 150-year old
> house in Maine. DH asked what he was using for countertops. Granite, of
> course.
> DH says, "Maybe we should take another look at granite; you know we don't
> have to settle on it until they cut."
> Here I go again! Template guy coming Friday.
> As yet, I'm not sure whether templating will make a difference if it is
> granite or Cambria.
>
> However, I don't think I, me personally, would ever use ANYTHING to shine
> up a surface I was cooking around/on. I did go to Black Diamond and check
> their information. (I tried the shiny-up spray for the stove-top, and
> I'm not sure that I'll use it again. - perhaps a little vinegar - but I
> understand that's a no-no for granite?)
>
> But I didn't see the Black Diamond ingredients, only their safety results,
> and the fact that it is biodegradable.
>
> Dee Dee

We also have used Simple Green countertop cleaner with good results. Is it
the 'shine' you object to, or just the fact that the shine implies there is
a chemical on the counter?

Regards,
Jon

"Zeppo" > wrote in message
...
>
> We also have used Simple Green countertop cleaner with good results. Is it
> the 'shine' you object to, or just the fact that the shine implies there
> is a chemical on the counter?
>
> Regards,
> Jon
Probably mostly the fact that 'shine' implies that there is a chemical on
the counter, WHICH INDICATES to me that this solution comes off un-evenly
and (to me) indicates that it will have to be totally cleaned off before any
more is used again because I feel that all cleaning solution adds, instead
of: takes all off, then adds more.

An example is the windshield cleaners. You have to get all of that stuff off
before you can start afresh.

Then there is of course, I'm not sure what to think of "Simple Green,"
"Round-up" "Healthy-something or other" brand of something that is more
unhealthy than regular foods. I'm really sceptical about these things.

There's almost no changing me. It took a long way to get this way ;-)
DeeDee

On Wed, 1 Aug 2007 23:44:33 -0400, "Dee Dee" > wrote:

>Probably mostly the fact that 'shine' implies that there is a chemical on
>the counter...

Well, that's not true, Dee, for either granite or the synthetic quartz you
seleted. Or for granite or marble tombstones. Or for diamonds and other
gemstones. The shine comes from simply polishing the surface. If they do any
corner rounding, etc. on site in your kitchen, you'll soon see this for
yourself.

>... WHICH INDICATES to me that this solution comes off un-evenly
>and (to me) indicates that it will have to be totally cleaned off before any
>more is used again because I feel that all cleaning solution adds, instead
>of: takes all off, then adds more.
>
>An example is the windshield cleaners. You have to get all of that stuff off
>before you can start afresh.

That's certainly not true of Windex and other ammonia-based cleaners, or we'd
never see through windshields and the like (e.g., the visor on my motorcycle
helmet). Those cleaners remove everything from hardened surfaces, including the
things which do build up, like furniture polish and Rain-X.

>Then there is of course, I'm not sure what to think of "Simple Green," ...

Simple Green has been around for 35 years, and is certified non-toxic. There
have been no problems with it that I can find any evidence of. It's sure awfully
useful around our house. It's specifically designed to remove greases, oils, and
dirt, and to float them on the surface, where they can be wiped or rinsed away.
And I don't see any evidence of build-up from it on granite, glass, or anything
else. The only way you can get residue from it is too use it in much too strong
concentrations. There's lots of good detailed information at
http://consumer.simplegreen.com/cons_faqs.php.

>There's almost no changing me. It took a long way to get this way ;-)

Me either -- except that my inherent laziness forces me to try new things all
the time... 8

-- Larry

"pltrgyst" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 1 Aug 2007 23:44:33 -0400, "Dee Dee" > wrote:
>
>>Probably mostly the fact that 'shine' implies that there is a chemical on
>>the counter...
>
> Well, that's not true, Dee, for either granite or the synthetic quartz you
> seleted. Or for granite or marble tombstones. Or for diamonds and other
> gemstones. The shine comes from simply polishing the surface. If they do
> any
> corner rounding, etc. on site in your kitchen, you'll soon see this for
> yourself.
>
>>... WHICH INDICATES to me that this solution comes off un-evenly
>>and (to me) indicates that it will have to be totally cleaned off before
>>any
>>more is used again because I feel that all cleaning solution adds, instead
>>of: takes all off, then adds more.
>>
>>An example is the windshield cleaners. You have to get all of that stuff
>>off
>>before you can start afresh.
>
> That's certainly not true of Windex and other ammonia-based cleaners, or
> we'd
> never see through windshields and the like (e.g., the visor on my
> motorcycle
> helmet). Those cleaners remove everything from hardened surfaces,
> including the
> things which do build up, like furniture polish and Rain-X.
>
>>Then there is of course, I'm not sure what to think of "Simple Green," ...
>
> Simple Green has been around for 35 years, and is certified non-toxic.
> There
> have been no problems with it that I can find any evidence of. It's sure
> awfully
> useful around our house. It's specifically designed to remove greases,
> oils, and
> dirt, and to float them on the surface, where they can be wiped or rinsed
> away.
> And I don't see any evidence of build-up from it on granite, glass, or
> anything
> else. The only way you can get residue from it is too use it in much too
> strong
> concentrations. There's lots of good detailed information at
> http://consumer.simplegreen.com/cons_faqs.php.
>
>>There's almost no changing me. It took a long way to get this way ;-)
>
> Me either -- except that my inherent laziness forces me to try new things
> all
> the time... 8
>
> -- Larry

Oh, my, Larry. You are so wonderful to take the time to try to convince me.
I really appreciate it.

Regarding your first statement, "The shine comes from simply polishing the
surface." I'm assuming you mean that the shine come from "cleaning it first
with something, then the shine comes from simply polishing the CLEAN
surface"?

My argument about any and all cleaners: for instance: when cleaning a
windshield of a car (I don't know what DH uses), but there seems to always
be a film on it that you can particularly see when it is raining. God, I
hate that! Regarding other cleaners, when they say that whatever they are
cleaning, that the cleaner will keep the article from getting so dirty
again; I feel the reason for this is: so that it won't get so dirty again,
and it won't get so dirty again because they've left a film on it to keep
the article from Getting Dirty.

I'll take another look at simple green. After you use simple green to clean
the counter, do you then wash/rinse it "very" well?

I'll have to see if I have some around and see if it passes my 'smell test.'
;-) DH keeps most of this stuff 'in the shed.' If not, I'll get a
bottle/jug come Saturday to test it. DH can always use it.

Thanks, Larry.

Night owl,
Dee

Dee Dee > wrote:

> "pltrgyst" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > Well, that's not true, Dee, for either granite or the synthetic quartz you
> > seleted. Or for granite or marble tombstones. Or for diamonds and other
> > gemstones. The shine comes from simply polishing the surface. If they do

> Regarding your first statement, "The shine comes from simply polishing the
> surface." I'm assuming you mean that the shine come from "cleaning it first
> with something, then the shine comes from simply polishing the CLEAN
> surface"?

I'm not Larry, but what I'm sure he is saying is the surface of stone
can be polished to a shine. Not shined after cleaning, it's shiny because
the surface has been polished (usually with other stones) to make it
very, very, smooth. Look at the shiny surface of tombstones in a
graveyard some time. Those aren't cleaned and polished a lot, they are
polished to a shiny finish by the monument company that makes them.
Any residue on a polished stone surface will make it *less* shiny.

Bill Ranck
Blacksburg, Va.

"Dee Dee" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Zeppo" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> We also have used Simple Green countertop cleaner with good results. Is
>> it the 'shine' you object to, or just the fact that the shine implies
>> there is a chemical on the counter?
>>
>> Regards,
>> Jon
> Probably mostly the fact that 'shine' implies that there is a chemical on
> the counter, WHICH INDICATES to me that this solution comes off un-evenly
> and (to me) indicates that it will have to be totally cleaned off before
> any more is used again because I feel that all cleaning solution adds,
> instead of: takes all off, then adds more.
>
> An example is the windshield cleaners. You have to get all of that stuff
> off before you can start afresh.
>
> Then there is of course, I'm not sure what to think of "Simple Green,"
> "Round-up" "Healthy-something or other" brand of something that is more
> unhealthy than regular foods. I'm really sceptical about these things.
>
> There's almost no changing me. It took a long way to get this way ;-)
> DeeDee
>
As other posters pointed out the shine comes from the material being
polished to a mirror finish when installed. However, installers usually do
seal the surface with a chemical sealant when installing, usually to help
repel chemicals that might damage the surface. We were told to reseal every
5-6 years.

I think my LW chose the simple green cleaner because of the 'non-toxic'
statement on the bottle. It (and other counter cleaners) may very well leave
a chemical behind to make it 'shiny. I prefer to pretend it does not. :-)

Regards,
Jon

> As other posters pointed out the shine comes from the material being
> polished to a mirror finish when installed. However, installers usually do
> seal the surface with a chemical sealant when installing, usually to help
> repel chemicals that might damage the surface. We were told to reseal
> every 5-6 years.
>
> I think my LW chose the simple green cleaner because of the 'non-toxic'
> statement on the bottle. It (and other counter cleaners) may very well
> leave a chemical behind to make it 'shiny. I prefer to pretend it does
> not. :-)
>
> Regards,
> Jon

Thanks again, Jon.
Here is what simple green says about their "Cleaner" (not their stone
shiner) and the objection I have to their statement,
"It wipes clean for a shine that resists fingerprints and smudges."

If I am using any product that makes the surface resistable to fingerprints
and smudges, I would have to assume that there is some chemical that coats
the surface.

Dee Dee

On Thu, 2 Aug 2007 01:56:20 -0400, "Dee Dee" > wrote:

>Regarding your first statement, "The shine comes from simply polishing the
>surface." I'm assuming you mean that the shine come from "cleaning it first
>with something, then the shine comes from simply polishing the CLEAN
>surface"?

I was speaking of the raw stone, when they cut it. First it's brushed clean,
since loose particles would ubviously marr the surface. The surface is then
polished with increasingly finer abrasives, until the finest pumice leaves a
mirror-like surface. There's no need for polishes that leave a shiny layer
behind, like wax on a car. The sealant they apply isn't necessary for the
surface to be shiny.

I notice on our granite that simply wiping with a damp sponge leaves behind
water, and the impurities in that tap water leave a film if allowed to air dry.
So even with plain water, we need to wipe the stone dry with a dish towel to
avoid haze or streaking.

>My argument about any and all cleaners: for instance: when cleaning a
>windshield of a car (I don't know what DH uses), but there seems to always
>be a film on it that you can particularly see when it is raining. God, I
>hate that!

Well, Rain-X certainly leaves a surface layer behind, so that rain will bead and
run off. I've never noticed it visually, but then I have lousy eyes. It may well
be visible if you look for it.

>I'll take another look at simple green. After you use simple green to clean
>the counter, do you then wash/rinse it "very" well?

We use the spray form, which is already diluted, then just wipe off with a damp
sponge.

>I'll have to see if I have some around and see if it passes my 'smell test.'

It comes in original green and lemon-scented, if you can stand either.

-- Larry

On Thu, 2 Aug 2007 13:59:22 -0400, "Dee Dee" > wrote:

>Here is what simple green says about their "Cleaner" (not their stone
>shiner) and the objection I have to their statement,
>"It wipes clean for a shine that resists fingerprints and smudges."
>
>If I am using any product that makes the surface resistable to fingerprints
>and smudges, I would have to assume that there is some chemical that coats
>the surface.

I would think that's just marketing hype for its ability to remove all oils. An
absolutely clean stone surface would resist fingerprints in that the only oils
would have to come from the skin.

-- Larry

On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 12:05:19 -0400, "Zeppo" > wrote:

>BTW, many people tried to steer us away from granite, None of these people
>had granite countertops in their house.

To break your record, I have Imperial Red (a.k.a Ruby Red) granite
countertops and I much prefer Corian. I don't like the granite's lack of
resiliency and the impossibility to see where the dirt is. The Corian I
like is Glacier White with MR16 spotlights on it. Add the undercabinet
lighting and your workplace glows.

I am not complaining about the sealing, as this is a dense granite and no
sealing is needed.

Don <www.donwiss.com> (e-mail link at home page bottom).

In article >,
Don Wiss > wrote:
>On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 12:05:19 -0400, "Zeppo" > wrote:
>
>>BTW, many people tried to steer us away from granite, None of these people
>>had granite countertops in their house.
>
>To break your record, I have Imperial Red (a.k.a Ruby Red) granite
>countertops and I much prefer Corian. I don't like the granite's lack of
>resiliency and the impossibility to see where the dirt is. The Corian I
>like is Glacier White with MR16 spotlights on it. Add the undercabinet
>lighting and your workplace glows.
>

I agree 100%, Don.
I really like the singular color of Corian,
and the feel of it.
I haven't lived with it though, so these are just my
impressions from visiting friends who have Corian
counters.


Joe