Coffee (rec.drink.coffee) Discussing coffee. This includes selection of brands, methods of making coffee, etc. Discussion about coffee in other forms (e.g. desserts) is acceptable.

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Old 11-10-2004, 10:46 AM
Dennis M. Reed \Califa\
 
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"Mark Thorson" wrote in message
...
First, we will get rid of off-flavors introduced by contact
with the materials of the machine itself (in particular, plastics,
aluminum, brass, and stainless steel).


does stainless steel really affect the taste of hot water?



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Old 11-10-2004, 11:02 AM
Francis Vaughan
 
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Default Tell me about YOUR ideal coffee machine!

(Amy Lynn Young-Leith) wrote in message ...
Hey coffee fiends, I need your help! This should be fun.

I'm working on a project (for a course in design) where the task is to
design an intelligent coffee machine of the future.


Hmm, it rather depends upon where the intelligence lives - in the
machine or in the designer :-)

OK, I have been thinking about some ideas for a while, and put these
forward as pretty much exactly what I would like to see on the market.
Unless someone is going to be kind enough to send me the numbers for
Saturday night's lottery draw I suspect I am going to have to wait for
someone else to engineer this and put it into production.

Clearly it is going to have to brew the best possible coffee. That
goes without saying. So...

It will boast very high precision in temperature profile and either
pressure or volume profile. This is achievable now - one way to
create what I envisage would be a pair of leadscrew driven pumps - one
driving hot water, the other cold - a computer controlled feed-forward
system would be able to create perfect profiles of all the brew
parameters.

OK, now some more mundane thoughts.

My big beef about all domestic machines is that they are considered a
standalone device. Make it a kitchen bench appliance - drill a huge
hole in the bench-top and mount it over its own dedicated sink. You
can put most of the mechanism under the bench-top - yielding almost
arbitrary flexibility on the aesthetics of the visible component, and
it suddenly becomes a very kitchen friendly device. The mess goes
straight down the sink.

The machine can pay for its use of bench-space by being multi-purpose.
The hot water delivery is a real boon, and we could add a additional
nozzles for filtered water, both room temperature and chilled. Many
people already have special hot and cold water delivery systems in
their kitchen, this would supersede them (and also justify part of
the price.)

Cleaning. We have a computer controlled machine with a source of high
pressure hot water and steam. There is no reason why is cannot keep
itself perfectly clean. Additional nozzles in strategic places and a
"clean me" button. The machine simply blasts itself with hot water
and steam, it would be possible to make a self cleaning steam want too
(perhaps using a double walled wand to deliver the cleaning water to
the end.) Since the machine is mounted over a sink there is no issue
about where the mess goes.

External body. It should be constructed like any other piece of high
quality plumbing for long term use in a domestic situation. Solid
polished metal. All the switch-gear should be flush with the surface
and totally sealed - so it is possible to clean all external surfaces
with ordinary kitchen cleaning materials in exactly the same way as
you would keep a tap or sink clean.

Grinder. This is an interesting issue. Clearly we will want a
grinder. One possibility is to integrate a grinder into the machine.
In a domestic low volume setting we don't need a clone of a commercial
unit (except in durability and quality.) We don't want a doser, nor a
large hopper. Indeed a true coffee geek will want to individually
grind different beans from shot to shot - so we only need a hopper
large enough to hold that - and add a weighted lid that will drive all
the beans through the grinder and avoid any flying out. Use a conical
burr grinder so that the grinds fall straight out of the bottom, and
use a 90 degree gear set so that the motor can be mounted out of the
way - deep inside the machine. The grinder can eject grinds right
next to the group head, so it is very convenient - and any mess drops
into the sink.

Cutsie ideas.
Put a peltier cell cooled plate somewhere so that the milk jug can be
kept cold for the best milk steaming performance. Adjustable cup
holder so for those that must, a large cup or mug can be placed under
the portafilter. This holder should also rotate out of the way to
provide full access to the sink.

Clearly the device will be engineered to stay on permanently.
Internally it should be very well insulated and the outside shell
should not get hot. One could utilise aerogel insulation and achieve
astounding thermal performance.

So, anyone want to make me one?
  #3 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 11-10-2004, 04:46 PM
Amy Lynn Young-Leith
 
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Default

In article [email protected],
Dennis M. Reed \"Califa\" wrote:

"Mark Thorson" wrote in message
...
First, we will get rid of off-flavors introduced by contact
with the materials of the machine itself (in particular, plastics,
aluminum, brass, and stainless steel).


does stainless steel really affect the taste of hot water?


It seems to for me -- I bought one of the fancy stainless lined beverage mugs, but can't stand to use it, especially if I try
to drink something cool out of it without using the sippie-cup like lid. It's just awful.

Amy
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Old 11-10-2004, 06:21 PM
Jack Denver
 
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Default

Some interesting ideas. I've often looked at my kitchen "instant hot" and
thought "here's 3/4ths of an espresso machine". Just as you descripe, the
instant hot has a plumbed in boiler that is mounted in the cabinet below my
sink and all that is visible is the faucet that dispenses 190F water. This
could easily be replaced/supplemented by a grouphead - perhaps electrically
heated to supplement/stabilize the boiler water temperature. Add a pump and
mount an airswitch on the countertop to control it and you're done.


"Francis Vaughan" wrote in message
om...
(Amy Lynn Young-Leith) wrote in message

...
Hey coffee fiends, I need your help! This should be fun.

I'm working on a project (for a course in design) where the task is to
design an intelligent coffee machine of the future.


Hmm, it rather depends upon where the intelligence lives - in the
machine or in the designer :-)

OK, I have been thinking about some ideas for a while, and put these
forward as pretty much exactly what I would like to see on the market.
Unless someone is going to be kind enough to send me the numbers for
Saturday night's lottery draw I suspect I am going to have to wait for
someone else to engineer this and put it into production.

Clearly it is going to have to brew the best possible coffee. That
goes without saying. So...

It will boast very high precision in temperature profile and either
pressure or volume profile. This is achievable now - one way to
create what I envisage would be a pair of leadscrew driven pumps - one
driving hot water, the other cold - a computer controlled feed-forward
system would be able to create perfect profiles of all the brew
parameters.

OK, now some more mundane thoughts.

My big beef about all domestic machines is that they are considered a
standalone device. Make it a kitchen bench appliance - drill a huge
hole in the bench-top and mount it over its own dedicated sink. You
can put most of the mechanism under the bench-top - yielding almost
arbitrary flexibility on the aesthetics of the visible component, and
it suddenly becomes a very kitchen friendly device. The mess goes
straight down the sink.

The machine can pay for its use of bench-space by being multi-purpose.
The hot water delivery is a real boon, and we could add a additional
nozzles for filtered water, both room temperature and chilled. Many
people already have special hot and cold water delivery systems in
their kitchen, this would supersede them (and also justify part of
the price.)

Cleaning. We have a computer controlled machine with a source of high
pressure hot water and steam. There is no reason why is cannot keep
itself perfectly clean. Additional nozzles in strategic places and a
"clean me" button. The machine simply blasts itself with hot water
and steam, it would be possible to make a self cleaning steam want too
(perhaps using a double walled wand to deliver the cleaning water to
the end.) Since the machine is mounted over a sink there is no issue
about where the mess goes.

External body. It should be constructed like any other piece of high
quality plumbing for long term use in a domestic situation. Solid
polished metal. All the switch-gear should be flush with the surface
and totally sealed - so it is possible to clean all external surfaces
with ordinary kitchen cleaning materials in exactly the same way as
you would keep a tap or sink clean.

Grinder. This is an interesting issue. Clearly we will want a
grinder. One possibility is to integrate a grinder into the machine.
In a domestic low volume setting we don't need a clone of a commercial
unit (except in durability and quality.) We don't want a doser, nor a
large hopper. Indeed a true coffee geek will want to individually
grind different beans from shot to shot - so we only need a hopper
large enough to hold that - and add a weighted lid that will drive all
the beans through the grinder and avoid any flying out. Use a conical
burr grinder so that the grinds fall straight out of the bottom, and
use a 90 degree gear set so that the motor can be mounted out of the
way - deep inside the machine. The grinder can eject grinds right
next to the group head, so it is very convenient - and any mess drops
into the sink.

Cutsie ideas.
Put a peltier cell cooled plate somewhere so that the milk jug can be
kept cold for the best milk steaming performance. Adjustable cup
holder so for those that must, a large cup or mug can be placed under
the portafilter. This holder should also rotate out of the way to
provide full access to the sink.

Clearly the device will be engineered to stay on permanently.
Internally it should be very well insulated and the outside shell
should not get hot. One could utilise aerogel insulation and achieve
astounding thermal performance.

So, anyone want to make me one?



  #5 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 11-10-2004, 09:08 PM
cc
 
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Default


"Amy Lynn Young-Leith" wrote in message

I'm working on a project (for a course in design) where the task is to
design an intelligent coffee machine of the future.


Why intelligent ? I prefer them dumb and lovely.

I want to ask a
number of people what THEIR desires for a future coffee machine would be.

I'm limiting the scope of this to INDIVIDUAL users (think a machine that
would go in a home or small workgroup, not something behind the counter at
a coffeehouse) that brews espresso (not some machine that tries to do it
all).
What would make it your dream coffee machine? A certain function -- or a
LACK of a certain function?


I think the machines for home usage have too small capacities to be used as
main coffee machine in most houses. They are secondary coffee-maker for all
the persons I know that have some in real life, because of that restriction.

If a machine could produce 1 cup when you're on your own, and 12 cups to be
served together the day you have guests (it's only Monday, Wesdnesday,
Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday for me), that'd be a huge improvement.
Also, if the machine could, in addition of "espresso" produce decent
"coffee" like the commercial machines are able to do. That'd be nice too.
Maybe that'd be possible if you could change all the block and buy a
regular-block, cafe-crema-block, many-guest-block...as you need.
The hot water supply should be precise too, so the machine could make also
tea when needed.

A feature or fun accessory? Get creative and
think outside the box -- no wrong answers here, just idea generation!


I want a screen like on my camera, and it will keep record of what sorts of
coffee are inside it as it will be a superauto that you feed with a few
sorts of beans (maybe green). Or make that data appear on my telephone.

There shouldn't be any box. If it's in the kitchen, it's integrated and only
a sort of tap appears on the counter, you place the cup under it and wait.
If it's in the living-room (I'd prefer), it's inside a cool piece of
furniture and same thing, you see only the tap, and when you've finished
drinking, you put the cups back in the drawer so the machine cleans them and
heats them for next time..
Make it silent please. And no plumbing headaches. If it's the furniture
model, it has to roll and to have a rechargeable battery so you can take it
all over the house and garden. Add handles (hidden when not used) so it can
easily be carried in stairs too.
No need to make it fly, but that'd be cool to have it float in the air about
one meter above the floor (I had a cool teddy-bear balloon like that when I
was a kid) and have the machine follow me like a little dog. Yeah, it would
come with me in the train, people would envy me.I'd go to *$ with it, to
tease them. Now we're talking of the second generation anyway.

The other solution is to develop mini-machines that would produce one cup
only. But you'd get one machine per person. Or you'd receive a set of 6 or
12 as marriage present, they'd be very stylish and assorted to the service
of tableware. The size would be less than 20 cm long, the weight 200 g
empty. Think of a nice tray to carry and store them.
Maybe, you'd get one for espresso, one for capuccino, one for regular
coffee... or they'd be versatile. Pods would be needed I suspect, but in
future, everybody would have a pod-maker in the kitchen (to transform
automatically green coffee beans into pods) or a similar system to recharge
the personnal machines with coffee/water /milk/sugar/ice/flavoring....and
gas for the pression.

Well, that's silly, I'll certainly end up with an Ethipian coffee jar and
you too, as machines will become so altmodish...the progress will be have
your mini-coffee tree in your flat and gather fresh beans daily. Don't lose
time on machines, find us a design for the pot of our cafetal, with a system
to water it when we are on holidays.
It's fun to try to imagine.

Kuri





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Old 11-10-2004, 09:53 PM
Dennis M. Reed \Califa\
 
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Default


"Amy Lynn Young-Leith" wrote in message
...
In article [email protected],
Dennis M. Reed \"Califa\" wrote:

"Mark Thorson" wrote in message
...
First, we will get rid of off-flavors introduced by contact
with the materials of the machine itself (in particular, plastics,
aluminum, brass, and stainless steel).


does stainless steel really affect the taste of hot water?


It seems to for me -- I bought one of the fancy stainless lined beverage
mugs, but can't stand to use it, especially if I try
to drink something cool out of it without using the sippie-cup like lid.
It's just awful.

sounds like the taste is probably from your saliva not the drink in the
stainless steel...to test this supposition, you might put a piece of plastic
wrap over the lip if the mug and see if you still get a bad taste...I would
be interested in your test.




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