Guys,

I've had a Cubika machine now for a number of months and it does seem to
make pretty good coffee.

However, I still don't seem to be able to get a really rich crema head.

I've tried all sorts of grind (I have a proper burr grinder), amounts of
coffee and type of grind, but I just can't seem to get it right.

In fact if I buy "Esspresso" ground coffee it is too fine and either the
brew will not flow or is very slow.

I notice that Gaggia used to do some sort of disc which was intended to
improve the crema, this is not now supplied with the machine, so I wonder
whether this has always been a problem.

Anyone got any advice or suggestions.

Thanks,


Charles

"Charles Turner" > ha scritto nel messaggio
...
> Guys,
>
> I've had a Cubika machine now for a number of months and it does seem to
> make pretty good coffee.
>
> I notice that Gaggia used to do some sort of disc which was intended to
> improve the crema, this is not now supplied with the machine, so I wonder
> whether this has always been a problem.
>
> Anyone got any advice or suggestions.
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Charles

I don't know your machine, but if you go to www.davidlebowitz.com, David
went to Illy's university of caffé and did a terrific article about the
science of coffee and why things do or do not happen. Just go to his site
and search on Illy or espresso and you'll learn a lot. As I recall, it had
to do with pressure and the time that the steam spent on the coffee.
--
http://www.judithgreenwood.com

On Nov 20, 5:51 pm, "Charles Turner" >
wrote:
> Guys,
>
> I've had a Cubika machine now for a number of months and it does seem to
> make pretty good coffee.
>
> However, I still don't seem to be able to get a really rich crema head.
>
> I've tried all sorts of grind (I have a proper burr grinder), amounts of
> coffee and type of grind, but I just can't seem to get it right.
>
> In fact if I buy "Esspresso" ground coffee it is too fine and either the
> brew will not flow or is very slow.
>
> I notice that Gaggia used to do some sort of disc which was intended to
> improve the crema, this is not now supplied with the machine, so I wonder
> whether this has always been a problem.
>
> Anyone got any advice or suggestions.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Charles

when was your coffee roasted? stale coffee delivers ever smaller
amounts of crema

Hi,

It's not the coffee. I freshly grind it and I've tried lots of different
types.

If I try the pre-ground espresso it is too fine.

I've even tried Gaggia's own ground coffee and still hardly any crema!

Charles


"lockjaw" > wrote in message
...
> On Nov 20, 5:51 pm, "Charles Turner" >
> wrote:
>> Guys,
>>
>> I've had a Cubika machine now for a number of months and it does seem to
>> make pretty good coffee.
>>
>> However, I still don't seem to be able to get a really rich crema head.
>>
>> I've tried all sorts of grind (I have a proper burr grinder), amounts of
>> coffee and type of grind, but I just can't seem to get it right.
>>
>> In fact if I buy "Esspresso" ground coffee it is too fine and either the
>> brew will not flow or is very slow.
>>
>> I notice that Gaggia used to do some sort of disc which was intended to
>> improve the crema, this is not now supplied with the machine, so I wonder
>> whether this has always been a problem.
>>
>> Anyone got any advice or suggestions.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Charles
>
> when was your coffee roasted? stale coffee delivers ever smaller
> amounts of crema

You obviously don't understand the concept of fresh coffee. The mass
coffee sellers would have you believe that coffee is "fresh" for a year
or more. Coffee is much like baked goods, freshly baked is the best,
they flavor and aroma goes and eventually the product is rancid and no
longer fresh for health department purposes. Freshly roasted coffee
give off gas (CO2) and volatile oils and aromatics. It is the volatile
oils that emulsify with water and other compounds in the coffee to make
crema. Once the coffee has lost these volatile oils it is stale for for
brewing purposes. Depending on a number of factors including the type
of beans, the degree of roast and storage conditions coffee is "fresh"
for 1 to 3 weeks. I'm using the term "fresh" for espresso purposes. It
will make crema and a decent tasting shot.

Canned coffee is usually staled before putting in the can or the can
would explode from the de-gassing coffee. Once the coffee is ground the
volatile oils dissipate rapidly -- 10 minutes can make a noticeable
difference in your espresso shot.

Your best bet is to find a local roaster and buy beans that were roasted
on the day of purchase.

R "do you know when your beans were roasted" TF

Charles Turner wrote:
> Hi,
>
> It's not the coffee. I freshly grind it and I've tried lots of different
> types.
>
> If I try the pre-ground espresso it is too fine.
>
> I've even tried Gaggia's own ground coffee and still hardly any crema!
>
> Charles
>
>

Thanks, but I think you've missed the point; the SAME coffee produces a good
crema in other machines, but not in the Cubika I've got.

Regards,


Charles



"Moka Java" > wrote in message
...
> You obviously don't understand the concept of fresh coffee. The mass
> coffee sellers would have you believe that coffee is "fresh" for a year or
> more. Coffee is much like baked goods, freshly baked is the best, they
> flavor and aroma goes and eventually the product is rancid and no longer
> fresh for health department purposes. Freshly roasted coffee give off gas
> (CO2) and volatile oils and aromatics. It is the volatile oils that
> emulsify with water and other compounds in the coffee to make crema. Once
> the coffee has lost these volatile oils it is stale for for brewing
> purposes. Depending on a number of factors including the type of beans,
> the degree of roast and storage conditions coffee is "fresh" for 1 to 3
> weeks. I'm using the term "fresh" for espresso purposes. It will make
> crema and a decent tasting shot.
>
> Canned coffee is usually staled before putting in the can or the can would
> explode from the de-gassing coffee. Once the coffee is ground the
> volatile oils dissipate rapidly -- 10 minutes can make a noticeable
> difference in your espresso shot.
>
> Your best bet is to find a local roaster and buy beans that were roasted
> on the day of purchase.
>
> R "do you know when your beans were roasted" TF
>
> Charles Turner wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> It's not the coffee. I freshly grind it and I've tried lots of different
>> types.
>>
>> If I try the pre-ground espresso it is too fine.
>>
>> I've even tried Gaggia's own ground coffee and still hardly any crema!
>>
>> Charles
>>

On Nov 21, 8:59 am, "Charles Turner" >
wrote:
> Thanks, but I think you've missed the point; the SAME coffee produces a good
> crema in other machines, but not in the Cubika I've got.
>
> Regards,
>
> Charles
>
> "Moka Java" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > You obviously don't understand the concept of fresh coffee. The mass
> > coffee sellers would have you believe that coffee is "fresh" for a year or
> > more. Coffee is much like baked goods, freshly baked is the best, they
> > flavor and aroma goes and eventually the product is rancid and no longer
> > fresh for health department purposes. Freshly roasted coffee give off gas
> > (CO2) and volatile oils and aromatics. It is the volatile oils that
> > emulsify with water and other compounds in the coffee to make crema. Once
> > the coffee has lost these volatile oils it is stale for for brewing
> > purposes. Depending on a number of factors including the type of beans,
> > the degree of roast and storage conditions coffee is "fresh" for 1 to 3
> > weeks. I'm using the term "fresh" for espresso purposes. It will make
> > crema and a decent tasting shot.
>
> > Canned coffee is usually staled before putting in the can or the can would
> > explode from the de-gassing coffee. Once the coffee is ground the
> > volatile oils dissipate rapidly -- 10 minutes can make a noticeable
> > difference in your espresso shot.
>
> > Your best bet is to find a local roaster and buy beans that were roasted
> > on the day of purchase.
>
> > R "do you know when your beans were roasted" TF
>
> > Charles Turner wrote:
> >> Hi,
>
> >> It's not the coffee. I freshly grind it and I've tried lots of different
> >> types.
>
> >> If I try the pre-ground espresso it is too fine.
>
> >> I've even tried Gaggia's own ground coffee and still hardly any crema!
>
> >> Charles

there are really only 4 factors, as the ltalians would say:

machine
grind (
coffee (see above)
technique (loading / tamping)

so if this very same coffee w/ the very same grind can do well on
another machine that leaves us with your

machine!
[assuming it is scrupulously clean]

temperature
and / or
pressure.

dave

www.hitechespresso.com

(I have machines with very stable, controllable temperatures, and
regulated pressures.)

I missed the point? Where did you mention that you used the same coffee
in other machines? You won't get much crema from stale coffee. If the
other machines had crema enhancer disks in the portafilter the aerated
bubbles you see are not real crema, just aerated bubbles. Crema is
created by the emulsification of oils and other compounds in the coffee.
This is done with fresh coffee, freshly ground under the heat and
pressure in a properly adjusted espresso machine. You don't get that
from a crema enhancer that just sprays the coffee through a small hole,
aerating it and creating bubbles.

R "surely I'm still missing the point." TF

Charles Turner wrote:
> Thanks, but I think you've missed the point; the SAME coffee produces a
> good crema in other machines, but not in the Cubika I've got.
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Charles
>
>
>
> "Moka Java" > wrote in message
> ...
>> You obviously don't understand the concept of fresh coffee. The mass
>> coffee sellers would have you believe that coffee is "fresh" for a
>> year or more. Coffee is much like baked goods, freshly baked is the
>> best, they flavor and aroma goes and eventually the product is rancid
>> and no longer fresh for health department purposes. Freshly roasted
>> coffee give off gas (CO2) and volatile oils and aromatics. It is the
>> volatile oils that emulsify with water and other compounds in the
>> coffee to make crema. Once the coffee has lost these volatile oils it
>> is stale for for brewing purposes. Depending on a number of factors
>> including the type of beans, the degree of roast and storage
>> conditions coffee is "fresh" for 1 to 3 weeks. I'm using the term
>> "fresh" for espresso purposes. It will make crema and a decent
>> tasting shot.
>>
>> Canned coffee is usually staled before putting in the can or the can
>> would explode from the de-gassing coffee. Once the coffee is ground
>> the volatile oils dissipate rapidly -- 10 minutes can make a
>> noticeable difference in your espresso shot.
>>
>> Your best bet is to find a local roaster and buy beans that were
>> roasted on the day of purchase.
>>
>> R "do you know when your beans were roasted" TF
>>
>> Charles Turner wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> It's not the coffee. I freshly grind it and I've tried lots of
>>> different types.
>>>
>>> If I try the pre-ground espresso it is too fine.
>>>
>>> I've even tried Gaggia's own ground coffee and still hardly any crema!
>>>
>>> Charles
>>>

Hi,

just an amateur here, but I noticed a distinct difference between even
machines of the same make and model.

I've noticed that the temperature that the water is heated to, influences
the crema.
I can't say what effect either the coffee, or the machine timing would have
on it, though.
Coffee is a complex drink, with many variables going into a recipe.
Unless you can isolate everything, you'll always have differences.
- kinda like wine, that way.


"Charles Turner" > wrote in message
...
> Thanks, but I think you've missed the point; the SAME coffee produces a
> good crema in other machines, but not in the Cubika I've got.
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Charles
>
>
>
> "Moka Java" > wrote in message
> ...
>> You obviously don't understand the concept of fresh coffee. The mass
>> coffee sellers would have you believe that coffee is "fresh" for a year
>> or more. Coffee is much like baked goods, freshly baked is the best,
>> they flavor and aroma goes and eventually the product is rancid and no
>> longer fresh for health department purposes. Freshly roasted coffee give
>> off gas (CO2) and volatile oils and aromatics. It is the volatile oils
>> that emulsify with water and other compounds in the coffee to make crema.
>> Once the coffee has lost these volatile oils it is stale for for brewing
>> purposes. Depending on a number of factors including the type of beans,
>> the degree of roast and storage conditions coffee is "fresh" for 1 to 3
>> weeks. I'm using the term "fresh" for espresso purposes. It will make
>> crema and a decent tasting shot.
>>
>> Canned coffee is usually staled before putting in the can or the can
>> would explode from the de-gassing coffee. Once the coffee is ground the
>> volatile oils dissipate rapidly -- 10 minutes can make a noticeable
>> difference in your espresso shot.
>>
>> Your best bet is to find a local roaster and buy beans that were roasted
>> on the day of purchase.
>>
>> R "do you know when your beans were roasted" TF
>>
>> Charles Turner wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> It's not the coffee. I freshly grind it and I've tried lots of different
>>> types.
>>>
>>> If I try the pre-ground espresso it is too fine.
>>>
>>> I've even tried Gaggia's own ground coffee and still hardly any crema!
>>>
>>> Charles
>>>

No, you did miss the point.

As I said I have used the same coffee in different machines producing a good
crema (I don't now have these machines), I have NEVER used a "crema enhancer
disk" so I assume there is a problem with the Cubika machine, just not sure
how, or whether it can be resolved.

Best Regards,


Charles

PS Might buy a different machine for Christmas! Any recomendations?



"Moka Java" > wrote in message
...
>I missed the point? Where did you mention that you used the same coffee in
>other machines? You won't get much crema from stale coffee. If the other
>machines had crema enhancer disks in the portafilter the aerated bubbles
>you see are not real crema, just aerated bubbles. Crema is created by the
>emulsification of oils and other compounds in the coffee. This is done with
>fresh coffee, freshly ground under the heat and pressure in a properly
>adjusted espresso machine. You don't get that from a crema enhancer that
>just sprays the coffee through a small hole, aerating it and creating
>bubbles.
>
> R "surely I'm still missing the point." TF
>
> Charles Turner wrote:
>> Thanks, but I think you've missed the point; the SAME coffee produces a
>> good crema in other machines, but not in the Cubika I've got.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>>
>> Charles
>>
>>
>>
>> "Moka Java" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> You obviously don't understand the concept of fresh coffee. The mass
>>> coffee sellers would have you believe that coffee is "fresh" for a year
>>> or more. Coffee is much like baked goods, freshly baked is the best,
>>> they flavor and aroma goes and eventually the product is rancid and no
>>> longer fresh for health department purposes. Freshly roasted coffee
>>> give off gas (CO2) and volatile oils and aromatics. It is the volatile
>>> oils that emulsify with water and other compounds in the coffee to make
>>> crema. Once the coffee has lost these volatile oils it is stale for for
>>> brewing purposes. Depending on a number of factors including the type
>>> of beans, the degree of roast and storage conditions coffee is "fresh"
>>> for 1 to 3 weeks. I'm using the term "fresh" for espresso purposes. It
>>> will make crema and a decent tasting shot.
>>>
>>> Canned coffee is usually staled before putting in the can or the can
>>> would explode from the de-gassing coffee. Once the coffee is ground the
>>> volatile oils dissipate rapidly -- 10 minutes can make a noticeable
>>> difference in your espresso shot.
>>>
>>> Your best bet is to find a local roaster and buy beans that were roasted
>>> on the day of purchase.
>>>
>>> R "do you know when your beans were roasted" TF
>>>
>>> Charles Turner wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> It's not the coffee. I freshly grind it and I've tried lots of
>>>> different types.
>>>>
>>>> If I try the pre-ground espresso it is too fine.
>>>>
>>>> I've even tried Gaggia's own ground coffee and still hardly any crema!
>>>>
>>>> Charles
>>>>

Howdy Charles!
It depends on your expectations & restrictions;
* what's your budget
* do you want consistent "God Shots" or do you primarily have milked drinks
* do you prefer the S/S industrial look that's currently in vogue
* are you willing/capable of buying a machine & upgrading it yourself

There is no *perfect* machine. They're all about compromises; size for
features, convenience for shot quality, price for machine quality, etc. For
my money it's impossible to find another brand of machine in Gaggia's price
range that produces the same quality coffee.
--
Robert Harmon
--
http://www.tinyurl.com/mb4uj - My coffee pages.
http://www.tinyurl.com/2cr3e2 - I have things for sale here.
http://www.tinyurl.com/2j8jur - Gaggia User's Group
http://www.tinyurl.com/235dfr - BUG is Bunn User's Group (espresso)

"Charles Turner" > wrote in message
...
> No, you did miss the point.
>
> As I said I have used the same coffee in different machines producing a
> good crema (I don't now have these machines), I have NEVER used a "crema
> enhancer disk" so I assume there is a problem with the Cubika machine,
> just not sure how, or whether it can be resolved.
>
> Best Regards,
>
>
> Charles
>
> PS Might buy a different machine for Christmas! Any recomendations?
>
>
>
> "Moka Java" > wrote in message
> ...
>>I missed the point? Where did you mention that you used the same coffee
>>in other machines? You won't get much crema from stale coffee. If the
>>other machines had crema enhancer disks in the portafilter the aerated
>>bubbles you see are not real crema, just aerated bubbles. Crema is
>>created by the emulsification of oils and other compounds in the coffee.
>>This is done with fresh coffee, freshly ground under the heat and pressure
>>in a properly adjusted espresso machine. You don't get that from a crema
>>enhancer that just sprays the coffee through a small hole, aerating it and
>>creating bubbles.
>>
>> R "surely I'm still missing the point." TF
>>
>> Charles Turner wrote:
>>> Thanks, but I think you've missed the point; the SAME coffee produces a
>>> good crema in other machines, but not in the Cubika I've got.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>>
>>> Charles
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Moka Java" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> You obviously don't understand the concept of fresh coffee. The mass
>>>> coffee sellers would have you believe that coffee is "fresh" for a year
>>>> or more. Coffee is much like baked goods, freshly baked is the best,
>>>> they flavor and aroma goes and eventually the product is rancid and no
>>>> longer fresh for health department purposes. Freshly roasted coffee
>>>> give off gas (CO2) and volatile oils and aromatics. It is the volatile
>>>> oils that emulsify with water and other compounds in the coffee to make
>>>> crema. Once the coffee has lost these volatile oils it is stale for
>>>> for brewing purposes. Depending on a number of factors including the
>>>> type of beans, the degree of roast and storage conditions coffee is
>>>> "fresh" for 1 to 3 weeks. I'm using the term "fresh" for espresso
>>>> purposes. It will make crema and a decent tasting shot.
>>>>
>>>> Canned coffee is usually staled before putting in the can or the can
>>>> would explode from the de-gassing coffee. Once the coffee is ground
>>>> the volatile oils dissipate rapidly -- 10 minutes can make a noticeable
>>>> difference in your espresso shot.
>>>>
>>>> Your best bet is to find a local roaster and buy beans that were
>>>> roasted on the day of purchase.
>>>>
>>>> R "do you know when your beans were roasted" TF
>>>>
>>>> Charles Turner wrote:
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> It's not the coffee. I freshly grind it and I've tried lots of
>>>>> different types.
>>>>>
>>>>> If I try the pre-ground espresso it is too fine.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've even tried Gaggia's own ground coffee and still hardly any crema!
>>>>>
>>>>> Charles
>>>>>
>

On Nov 20, 5:51 pm, "Charles Turner" >
wrote:
> Guys,
>
> I've had a Cubika machine now for a number of months and it does seem to
> make pretty good coffee.
>
> However, I still don't seem to be able to get a really rich crema head.
>
> I've tried all sorts of grind (I have a proper burr grinder), amounts of
> coffee and type of grind, but I just can't seem to get it right.
>
> In fact if I buy "Esspresso" ground coffee it is too fine and either the
> brew will not flow or is very slow.
>
> I notice that Gaggia used to do some sort of disc which was intended to
> improve the crema, this is not now supplied with the machine, so I wonder
> whether this has always been a problem.
>
> Anyone got any advice or suggestions.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Charles


I don't know why you are not getting the same results as with the
other

machines DO NOT GET THE CREMA ENCHANER DISK, the crema it makes is
not

real it will only mask progress or failures in your technique as crema
is

one of the byproducts of good preparation.


You also may want to try temperature surfing by throwing the
steaming

switch and then hitting the brew switch at some point before the
water

gets to steaming temperature after some trial and error you will know
at

how many seconds to throw the brew switch after activating the
steaming

coils.

Sour taste and very light crema is usually brewed at too low a

temperature and too high will produce bitterness and burnt taste with

thin dark crema or even good looking crema sometimes but bad taste.

Crema is just one of the factors.

Do the other machines have crema enhancing portafilters? if so maybe

they are just making so and so coffee look asthetically pleasing

(interpretation a big head of phoney crema) and your machine is
producing

a more honest representation of outcome due to coffee quality,
tecnique,

grind, and/or tamp. Maybe not ???

How does the coffee taste ?? You did say you used whole beans (what

kind and their roasting date I know nothing about) and ground them
(with

what kind of grinding device ?), BUT you also mentioned PREGROUND
which

is a NO NO (that is one I can answer)


Since most US espresso shops produce swill even the so so espresso
with

or without milk may be a much better tasting alternative so if you
like

the taste (is it better or as good as what the other machines make?)
then

I wouldn't worry about it.

There are a few reviews on this machine at this site

http://www.coffeegeek.com/reviews/consumer/gaggiacubika

I re-read your original post. Where did you say you used the same
coffee in different machines? If you did not know what a crema enhancer
was how do you know those machines didn't have them?

LaMarzocco makes a nice espresso machine.

R "aw what's the point" TF

Charles Turner wrote:
> No, you did miss the point.
>
> As I said I have used the same coffee in different machines producing a
> good crema (I don't now have these machines), I have NEVER used a "crema
> enhancer disk" so I assume there is a problem with the Cubika machine,
> just not sure how, or whether it can be resolved.
>
> Best Regards,
>
>
> Charles
>
> PS Might buy a different machine for Christmas! Any recomendations?
>
>
>
> "Moka Java" > wrote in message
> ...
>> I missed the point? Where did you mention that you used the same
>> coffee in other machines? You won't get much crema from stale
>> coffee. If the other machines had crema enhancer disks in the
>> portafilter the aerated bubbles you see are not real crema, just
>> aerated bubbles. Crema is created by the emulsification of oils and
>> other compounds in the coffee. This is done with fresh coffee, freshly
>> ground under the heat and pressure in a properly adjusted espresso
>> machine. You don't get that from a crema enhancer that just sprays
>> the coffee through a small hole, aerating it and creating bubbles.
>>
>> R "surely I'm still missing the point." TF
>>
>> Charles Turner wrote:
>>> Thanks, but I think you've missed the point; the SAME coffee produces
>>> a good crema in other machines, but not in the Cubika I've got.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>>
>>> Charles
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Moka Java" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> You obviously don't understand the concept of fresh coffee. The
>>>> mass coffee sellers would have you believe that coffee is "fresh"
>>>> for a year or more. Coffee is much like baked goods, freshly baked
>>>> is the best, they flavor and aroma goes and eventually the product
>>>> is rancid and no longer fresh for health department purposes.
>>>> Freshly roasted coffee give off gas (CO2) and volatile oils and
>>>> aromatics. It is the volatile oils that emulsify with water and
>>>> other compounds in the coffee to make crema. Once the coffee has
>>>> lost these volatile oils it is stale for for brewing purposes.
>>>> Depending on a number of factors including the type of beans, the
>>>> degree of roast and storage conditions coffee is "fresh" for 1 to 3
>>>> weeks. I'm using the term "fresh" for espresso purposes. It will
>>>> make crema and a decent tasting shot.
>>>>
>>>> Canned coffee is usually staled before putting in the can or the can
>>>> would explode from the de-gassing coffee. Once the coffee is ground
>>>> the volatile oils dissipate rapidly -- 10 minutes can make a
>>>> noticeable difference in your espresso shot.
>>>>
>>>> Your best bet is to find a local roaster and buy beans that were
>>>> roasted on the day of purchase.
>>>>
>>>> R "do you know when your beans were roasted" TF
>>>>
>>>> Charles Turner wrote:
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> It's not the coffee. I freshly grind it and I've tried lots of
>>>>> different types.
>>>>>
>>>>> If I try the pre-ground espresso it is too fine.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've even tried Gaggia's own ground coffee and still hardly any crema!
>>>>>
>>>>> Charles
>>>>>
>

On Nov 21, 3:20 pm, opother > wrote:
> On Nov 20, 5:51 pm, "Charles Turner" >
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Guys,
>
> > I've had a Cubika machine now for a number of months and it does seem to
> > make pretty good coffee.
>
> > However, I still don't seem to be able to get a really rich crema head.
>
> > I've tried all sorts of grind (I have a proper burr grinder), amounts of
> > coffee and type of grind, but I just can't seem to get it right.
>
> > In fact if I buy "Esspresso" ground coffee it is too fine and either the
> > brew will not flow or is very slow.
>
> > I notice that Gaggia used to do some sort of disc which was intended to
> > improve the crema, this is not now supplied with the machine, so I wonder
> > whether this has always been a problem.
>
> > Anyone got any advice or suggestions.
>
> > Thanks,
>
> > Charles
>
> I don't know why you are not getting the same results as with the
> other
>
> machines DO NOT GET THE CREMA ENCHANER DISK, the crema it makes is
> not
>
> real it will only mask progress or failures in your technique as crema
> is
>
> one of the byproducts of good preparation.
>
> You also may want to try temperature surfing by throwing the
> steaming
>
> switch and then hitting the brew switch at some point before the
> water
>
> gets to steaming temperature after some trial and error you will know
> at
>
> how many seconds to throw the brew switch after activating the
> steaming
>
> coils.
>
> Sour taste and very light crema is usually brewed at too low a
>
> temperature and too high will produce bitterness and burnt taste with
>
> thin dark crema or even good looking crema sometimes but bad taste.
>
> Crema is just one of the factors.
>
> Do the other machines have crema enhancing portafilters? if so maybe
>
> they are just making so and so coffee look asthetically pleasing
>
> (interpretation a big head of phoney crema) and your machine is
> producing
>
> a more honest representation of outcome due to coffee quality,
> tecnique,
>
> grind, and/or tamp. Maybe not ???
>
> How does the coffee taste ?? You did say you used whole beans (what
>
> kind and their roasting date I know nothing about) and ground them
> (with
>
> what kind of grinding device ?), BUT you also mentioned PREGROUND
> which
>
> is a NO NO (that is one I can answer)
>
> Since most US espresso shops produce swill even the so so espresso
> with
>
> or without milk may be a much better tasting alternative so if you
> like
>
> the taste (is it better or as good as what the other machines make?)
> then
>
> I wouldn't worry about it.
>
> There are a few reviews on this machine at this site
>
> http://www.coffeegeek.com/reviews/co.../gaggiacubika- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -





Oops oops oops sorry about that I FAILED TO NOTE that you have NEVER
used a crema enchancer disk well that takes one equation out.

Hmmm I am now thinking different size portafilter maybe ?? Deeper
portafilters with a smaller diameter are more forgiving than
portafilters with a wider diameter and less deph also these machines
may produce different pump pressures they usually say 15 bars which is
too much anyway but still capable of making a good brew (~ 8.5 to 9
bars is the standard) but some boast 18 bars these are maximum
pressures and not the actual pressure when brewing as this is also
controlled by size of grind and dose (brewing pressure).

What this all boils down to is that you probably need to change your
grind size, dose, and/or tamping pressure. Hint grind size and dose
are much more significant factors.
Would I be correct to say that your gaggia has a wider 58mm
portafilter and your other machines may have had a deeper

On Nov 20, 5:51 pm, "Charles Turner" >
wrote:
> Guys,
>
> I've had a Cubika machine now for a number of months and it does seem to
> make pretty good coffee.
>
> However, I still don't seem to be able to get a really rich crema head.
>
> I've tried all sorts of grind (I have a proper burr grinder), amounts of
> coffee and type of grind, but I just can't seem to get it right.
>
> In fact if I buy "Esspresso" ground coffee it is too fine and either the
> brew will not flow or is very slow.
>
> I notice that Gaggia used to do some sort of disc which was intended to
> improve the crema, this is not now supplied with the machine, so I wonder
> whether this has always been a problem.
>
> Anyone got any advice or suggestions.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Charles



continued..

narrower (49 - 51mm) portafilter ?

On Nov 21, 4:15 pm, opother > wrote:
> On Nov 20, 5:51 pm, "Charles Turner" >
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Guys,
>
> > I've had a Cubika machine now for a number of months and it does seem to
> > make pretty good coffee.
>
> > However, I still don't seem to be able to get a really rich crema head.
>
> > I've tried all sorts of grind (I have a proper burr grinder), amounts of
> > coffee and type of grind, but I just can't seem to get it right.
>
> > In fact if I buy "Esspresso" ground coffee it is too fine and either the
> > brew will not flow or is very slow.
>
> > I notice that Gaggia used to do some sort of disc which was intended to
> > improve the crema, this is not now supplied with the machine, so I wonder
> > whether this has always been a problem.
>
> > Anyone got any advice or suggestions.
>
> > Thanks,
>
> > Charles
>
> continued..
>
> narrower (49 - 51mm) portafilter ?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -



When I say deeper portafilters are more forgiving I mean in regards
to tamping tecnique not just dose and how hard you tamp. I find the
wider portafilters are more prone to channeling if you don't perfectly
spread out the coffee evenly which can be complicated when it clumps
together which happens often with doser grinders like my super jolly
rather than sprinkle evenly throughout the portafilter.

So I would in addition to adjusting for different size portafilter,
also do whatever you can to ensure as even a dispersal as possible and
tamp with manic perfection. I have been doing this for years and you
may have too ? But I still am not a perfect tamper myself.

On Nov 21, 4:26 pm, opother > wrote:
> On Nov 21, 4:15 pm, opother > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 20, 5:51 pm, "Charles Turner" >
> > wrote:
>
> > > Guys,
>
> > > I've had a Cubika machine now for a number of months and it does seem to
> > > make pretty good coffee.
>
> > > However, I still don't seem to be able to get a really rich crema head.
>
> > > I've tried all sorts of grind (I have a proper burr grinder), amounts of
> > > coffee and type of grind, but I just can't seem to get it right.
>
> > > In fact if I buy "Esspresso" ground coffee it is too fine and either the
> > > brew will not flow or is very slow.
>
> > > I notice that Gaggia used to do some sort of disc which was intended to
> > > improve the crema, this is not now supplied with the machine, so I wonder
> > > whether this has always been a problem.
>
> > > Anyone got any advice or suggestions.
>
> > > Thanks,
>
> > > Charles
>
> > continued..
>
> > narrower (49 - 51mm) portafilter ?- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> When I say deeper portafilters are more forgiving I mean in regards
> to tamping tecnique not just dose and how hard you tamp. I find the
> wider portafilters are more prone to channeling if you don't perfectly
> spread out the coffee evenly which can be complicated when it clumps
> together which happens often with doser grinders like my super jolly
> rather than sprinkle evenly throughout the portafilter.
>
> So I would in addition to adjusting for different size portafilter,
> also do whatever you can to ensure as even a dispersal as possible and
> tamp with manic perfection. I have been doing this for years and you
> may have too ? But I still am not a perfect tamper myself.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -


I would be interested in any results could you lets us know. My
apologies for be presumptious

for your money.

"Tex" > wrote in message
...
> Howdy Charles!
> It depends on your expectations & restrictions;
> * what's your budget
> * do you want consistent "God Shots" or do you primarily have milked
> drinks
> * do you prefer the S/S industrial look that's currently in vogue
> * are you willing/capable of buying a machine & upgrading it yourself
>
> There is no *perfect* machine. They're all about compromises; size for
> features, convenience for shot quality, price for machine quality, etc.
> For my money it's impossible to find another brand of machine in Gaggia's
> price range that produces the same quality coffee.
> --
> Robert Harmon
> --
> http://www.tinyurl.com/mb4uj - My coffee pages.
> http://www.tinyurl.com/2cr3e2 - I have things for sale here.
> http://www.tinyurl.com/2j8jur - Gaggia User's Group
> http://www.tinyurl.com/235dfr - BUG is Bunn User's Group (espresso)
>
> "Charles Turner" > wrote in message
> ...
>> No, you did miss the point.
>>
>> As I said I have used the same coffee in different machines producing a
>> good crema (I don't now have these machines), I have NEVER used a "crema
>> enhancer disk" so I assume there is a problem with the Cubika machine,
>> just not sure how, or whether it can be resolved.
>>
>> Best Regards,
>>
>>
>> Charles
>>
>> PS Might buy a different machine for Christmas! Any recomendations?
>>
>>
>>
>> "Moka Java" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>I missed the point? Where did you mention that you used the same coffee
>>>in other machines? You won't get much crema from stale coffee. If the
>>>other machines had crema enhancer disks in the portafilter the aerated
>>>bubbles you see are not real crema, just aerated bubbles. Crema is
>>>created by the emulsification of oils and other compounds in the coffee.
>>>This is done with fresh coffee, freshly ground under the heat and
>>>pressure in a properly adjusted espresso machine. You don't get that
>>>from a crema enhancer that just sprays the coffee through a small hole,
>>>aerating it and creating bubbles.
>>>
>>> R "surely I'm still missing the point." TF
>>>
>>> Charles Turner wrote:
>>>> Thanks, but I think you've missed the point; the SAME coffee produces a
>>>> good crema in other machines, but not in the Cubika I've got.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Charles
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Moka Java" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>> You obviously don't understand the concept of fresh coffee. The mass
>>>>> coffee sellers would have you believe that coffee is "fresh" for a
>>>>> year or more. Coffee is much like baked goods, freshly baked is the
>>>>> best, they flavor and aroma goes and eventually the product is rancid
>>>>> and no longer fresh for health department purposes. Freshly roasted
>>>>> coffee give off gas (CO2) and volatile oils and aromatics. It is the
>>>>> volatile oils that emulsify with water and other compounds in the
>>>>> coffee to make crema. Once the coffee has lost these volatile oils it
>>>>> is stale for for brewing purposes. Depending on a number of factors
>>>>> including the type of beans, the degree of roast and storage
>>>>> conditions coffee is "fresh" for 1 to 3 weeks. I'm using the term
>>>>> "fresh" for espresso purposes. It will make crema and a decent
>>>>> tasting shot.
>>>>>
>>>>> Canned coffee is usually staled before putting in the can or the can
>>>>> would explode from the de-gassing coffee. Once the coffee is ground
>>>>> the volatile oils dissipate rapidly -- 10 minutes can make a
>>>>> noticeable difference in your espresso shot.
>>>>>
>>>>> Your best bet is to find a local roaster and buy beans that were
>>>>> roasted on the day of purchase.
>>>>>
>>>>> R "do you know when your beans were roasted" TF
>>>>>
>>>>> Charles Turner wrote:
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's not the coffee. I freshly grind it and I've tried lots of
>>>>>> different types.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If I try the pre-ground espresso it is too fine.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've even tried Gaggia's own ground coffee and still hardly any
>>>>>> crema!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Charles
>>>>>>
>>
>
>

Oh please Bub, enlighten us - which machine in the Gaggia's price
range, $200 - $500, can match them for quality coffee?

Robert Harmon
--
http://www.tinyurl.com/mb4uj - My coffee pages.
http://www.tinyurl.com/2cr3e2 - I have things for sale here.
http://www.tinyurl.com/2j8jur - Gaggia User's Group
http://www.tinyurl.com/235dfr - BUG is Bunn User's Group (espresso)

On Nov 22, 1:51 am, "daveb" > wrote:
> for your money.
>
> "Tex" > wrote in message
>

"Charles Turner" > wrote:

| I've had a Cubika machine now for a number of months and it does seem to
| make pretty good coffee.

The Cubika is not an especially good machine; it is essentually a Saeco with
the Gaggia name.

- David R.
--
Less information than you ever thought possible:
http://www.demitasse.net

On Nov 23, 7:10 pm, (D. Ross) wrote:
> "Charles Turner" > wrote:
>
> | I've had a Cubika machine now for a number of months and it does seem to
> | make pretty good coffee.
>
> The Cubika is not an especially good machine; it is essentually a Saeco with
> the Gaggia name.
>

made in the same sweatshop.

gaggia = saeco saeco = gaggia

On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 08:56:56 +0100, Giusi > wrote:


>"Charles Turner" > ha scritto nel messaggio
...
>> Guys,
>>
>> I've had a Cubika machine now for a number of months and it does seem to
>> make pretty good coffee.
>>
>> I notice that Gaggia used to do some sort of disc which was intended to
>> improve the crema, this is not now supplied with the machine, so I wonder
>> whether this has always been a problem.
>>
>> Anyone got any advice or suggestions.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>>
>> Charles

>I don't know your machine, but if you go to www.davidlebowitz.com, David
>went to Illy's university of caffé and did a terrific article about the

Do you have a more specific link? All I found at www.davidlebowitz.com were
broken links. Searching for 'crema' returned nothing.

the thermostats have very wide allowable tolerances, for one thing.

dave

"Ralph" > wrote in message ...
> Hi,
>
> just an amateur here, but I noticed a distinct difference between even
> machines of the same make and model.
>
> I've noticed that the temperature that the water is heated to, influences
> the crema.
> I can't say what effect either the coffee, or the machine timing would
> have on it, though.
> Coffee is a complex drink, with many variables going into a recipe.
> Unless you can isolate everything, you'll always have differences.
> - kinda like wine, that way.
>
>
> "Charles Turner" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Thanks, but I think you've missed the point; the SAME coffee produces a
>> good crema in other machines, but not in the Cubika I've got.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>>
>> Charles
>>
>>
>>
>> "Moka Java" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> You obviously don't understand the concept of fresh coffee. The mass
>>> coffee sellers would have you believe that coffee is "fresh" for a year
>>> or more. Coffee is much like baked goods, freshly baked is the best,
>>> they flavor and aroma goes and eventually the product is rancid and no
>>> longer fresh for health department purposes. Freshly roasted coffee
>>> give off gas (CO2) and volatile oils and aromatics. It is the volatile
>>> oils that emulsify with water and other compounds in the coffee to make
>>> crema. Once the coffee has lost these volatile oils it is stale for for
>>> brewing purposes. Depending on a number of factors including the type
>>> of beans, the degree of roast and storage conditions coffee is "fresh"
>>> for 1 to 3 weeks. I'm using the term "fresh" for espresso purposes. It
>>> will make crema and a decent tasting shot.
>>>
>>> Canned coffee is usually staled before putting in the can or the can
>>> would explode from the de-gassing coffee. Once the coffee is ground the
>>> volatile oils dissipate rapidly -- 10 minutes can make a noticeable
>>> difference in your espresso shot.
>>>
>>> Your best bet is to find a local roaster and buy beans that were roasted
>>> on the day of purchase.
>>>
>>> R "do you know when your beans were roasted" TF
>>>
>>> Charles Turner wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> It's not the coffee. I freshly grind it and I've tried lots of
>>>> different types.
>>>>
>>>> If I try the pre-ground espresso it is too fine.
>>>>
>>>> I've even tried Gaggia's own ground coffee and still hardly any crema!
>>>>
>>>> Charles
>>>>
>

"AZ Nomad" wrote in message > On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 08:56:56 +0100, Giusi
wrote:
>
>
>>"Charles Turner" > ha scritto nel messaggio
...
>>> Guys,
>>>
>>> I've had a Cubika machine now for a number of months and it does seem to
>>> make pretty good coffee.
>>>
>>> I notice that Gaggia used to do some sort of disc which was intended to
>>> improve the crema, this is not now supplied with the machine, so I
>>> wonder
>>> whether this has always been a problem.
>>>
>>> Anyone got any advice or suggestions.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>>
>>> Charles
>
>>I don't know your machine, but if you go to www.davidlebowitz.com, David
>>went to Illy's university of caffé and did a terrific article about the
>
> Do you have a more specific link? All I found at www.davidlebowitz.com
> were
> broken links. Searching for 'crema' returned nothing.

Yep that's a typo on the surname spelling, if the following dosn't wrap type
type davidlebovitz and Illy into any search engine.
http://www.davidlebovitz.com/archive...g_perfect.html

Bertie

On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 20:42:06 -0000, Bertie Doe > wrote:



>"AZ Nomad" wrote in message > On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 08:56:56 +0100, Giusi
>wrote:
>>
>>
>>>"Charles Turner" > ha scritto nel messaggio
...
>>>> Guys,
>>>>
>>>> I've had a Cubika machine now for a number of months and it does seem to
>>>> make pretty good coffee.
>>>>
>>>> I notice that Gaggia used to do some sort of disc which was intended to
>>>> improve the crema, this is not now supplied with the machine, so I
>>>> wonder
>>>> whether this has always been a problem.
>>>>
>>>> Anyone got any advice or suggestions.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Charles
>>
>>>I don't know your machine, but if you go to www.davidlebowitz.com, David
>>>went to Illy's university of caffé and did a terrific article about the
>>
>> Do you have a more specific link? All I found at www.davidlebowitz.com
>> were
>> broken links. Searching for 'crema' returned nothing.

>Yep that's a typo on the surname spelling, if the following dosn't wrap type
>type davidlebovitz and Illy into any search engine.
>http://www.davidlebovitz.com/archive...g_perfect.html

I thought it looked like a %#(%^(#&(%#% phishing site. They should be
outlawed and the people who have created them locked up for life.

lockjaw > wrote:

| On Nov 23, 7:10 pm, (D. Ross) wrote:
| > "Charles Turner" > wrote:
| >
| > | I've had a Cubika machine now for a number of months and it does seem to
| > | make pretty good coffee.
| >
| > The Cubika is not an especially good machine; it is essentually a Saeco with
| > the Gaggia name.
| >
|
| made in the same sweatshop.

No, just under the same company. Saeco owns Gaggia (actually, a French
multinational owns both), and they are increasingly mixing and matching
parts, but the Gaggia gruppo is made in Milano (I guess moving to China),
while IIRC Saeco gruppo is made in Bolgna.

- David R.
--
Less information than you ever thought possible:
http://www.demitasse.net