http://www.thetoque.com/040316/beervending.htm

This could be a good thing...as long as you have change.

On 21 Mar 2004 19:59:37 -0800, Chipper > wrote:

>http://www.thetoque.com/040316/beervending.htm
>
>This could be a good thing...as long as you have change.

This could be funny... if it was funny. Beer vending machines are
found in Europe and Japan. Maybe the Canadians should get a hint.
The Toque's "satire" only works for Canadians.
--
Nobody You Know

A few years ago while in Japan, I saw beer and even Scotch in a street
vending machine. I asked my Japanese associate "don't the kids buy that
and get drunk?" He looked at me kinda funny and replied
"no".....thinking like an American where anarchy runs wild on a Saturday
night...I asked "why not?"....he replied, without smiling...."because
they know that they are not supposed to"....(why didn't I think of that?)

Kim




Oh, Guess wrote:
> On 21 Mar 2004 19:59:37 -0800, Chipper > wrote:
>
>
>>http://www.thetoque.com/040316/beervending.htm
>>
>>This could be a good thing...as long as you have change.
>
>
> This could be funny... if it was funny. Beer vending machines are
> found in Europe and Japan. Maybe the Canadians should get a hint.
> The Toque's "satire" only works for Canadians.

I've always found that if something is forbidden, it makes it irresistible.
If the kids are treated like mature adults they will be able to make
decisions like adults. But not here in the good ol USA where liquor is
forbidden. When you get some alcohol and discover the mystic allure of
getting drunk (eye roll) you have to learn to cram it in in like the 2 hours
you are allowed out on the weekend. Now that I live on my own, I never get
puking drunk like I did when I was a teen...

I've known people that grew up in Germany. They told me they never thought
of getting drunk cuz it was always available and they never thought about
it...

great topic BTW.


"whammo" > wrote in message
...
> A few years ago while in Japan, I saw beer and even Scotch in a street
> vending machine. I asked my Japanese associate "don't the kids buy that
> and get drunk?" He looked at me kinda funny and replied
> "no".....thinking like an American where anarchy runs wild on a Saturday
> night...I asked "why not?"....he replied, without smiling...."because
> they know that they are not supposed to"....(why didn't I think of that?)
>
> Kim
>
>
>
>
> Oh, Guess wrote:
> > On 21 Mar 2004 19:59:37 -0800, Chipper > wrote:
> >
> >
> >>http://www.thetoque.com/040316/beervending.htm
> >>
> >>This could be a good thing...as long as you have change.
> >
> >
> > This could be funny... if it was funny. Beer vending machines are
> > found in Europe and Japan. Maybe the Canadians should get a hint.
> > The Toque's "satire" only works for Canadians.
>

"Lauksna" > a écrit dans le message de
...
> I've always found that if something is forbidden, it makes it
irresistible.
> If the kids are treated like mature adults they will be able to make
> decisions like adults. But not here in the good ol USA where liquor is
> forbidden. When you get some alcohol and discover the mystic allure of
> getting drunk (eye roll) you have to learn to cram it in in like the 2
hours
> you are allowed out on the weekend. Now that I live on my own, I never get
> puking drunk like I did when I was a teen...
>
> I've known people that grew up in Germany. They told me they never thought
> of getting drunk cuz it was always available and they never thought about
> it...
>
> great topic BTW.
>
>
> "whammo" > wrote in message
> ...
> > A few years ago while in Japan, I saw beer and even Scotch in a street
> > vending machine. I asked my Japanese associate "don't the kids buy that
> > and get drunk?" He looked at me kinda funny and replied
> > "no".....thinking like an American where anarchy runs wild on a Saturday
> > night...I asked "why not?"....he replied, without smiling...."because
> > they know that they are not supposed to"....(why didn't I think of
that?)
> >
> > Kim
> >

I always wondered what is percentage of people get killed in alcohol related
accident in country like USA where it's far easyer to buy a machine gun at
18 than buy a beer compared to countrys where alcohol is part of day to day
life like in France and Italy. Somoeme have ever checked?

For myself i always thought that the problem with drunk driving is not being
drunk but it's driving and i wonder if the auto loby are financing MAD and
organisms like that to put the blame on alcohol instead of cars.

If american are not mature enough at 20 to drink a beer, how can they be
mature enough at 16 to drive cars that kill thousands of people each year
whit or whithout alcohol???
--
Altair (:-o)>=®
"The History of every major Galactic Civilisation tends to pass through
three distinct and recognisable phases... characterised by the questions How
can we eat? Why do we eat? and Where shall we have lunch?"
Douglas Adams.

> If american are not mature enough at 20 to drink a beer, how can they be
> mature enough at 16 to drive cars that kill thousands of people each year
> whit or whithout alcohol???

AMEN!

"Altair" > wrote in message
.. .

> If american are not mature enough at 20 to drink a beer, how can they be
> mature enough at 16 to drive cars that kill thousands of people each year
> whit or whithout alcohol???

I don't think maturity is the issue. Teenagers are teenagers, regardless of
their nationality.

The issue, imho, is in the importance of the car in American society. Trying
getting around any American city without one. Now go to, Montreal, Mexico
City, London, etc and try the same.

Drunken Canadian, Mexican, British, etc teenagers can close the bar, stagger
onto a bus and their worst fear is falling asleep and missing their stop.

Most drunken American teenagers have to drive home when they leave the bar.

There's the difference.

Richard

On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 11:00:51 -0500, "Richard" > wrote:

>"Altair" > wrote in message
. ..
>
>> If american are not mature enough at 20 to drink a beer, how can they be
>> mature enough at 16 to drive cars that kill thousands of people each year
>> whit or whithout alcohol???
>
>I don't think maturity is the issue. Teenagers are teenagers, regardless of
>their nationality.
>
>The issue, imho, is in the importance of the car in American society. Trying
>getting around any American city without one.

Let's see: San Francisco, Chicago, New York, Philadelphia, Boston,
and Washington DC. All easy cities to get around in without a car.
Not only that, but in NYC, the trains run 24/7, so it's possible to
get from that freshly-closed bar to one's home without driving.

Next?

> Now go to, Montreal, Mexico
>City, London, etc and try the same.

Now, go to Calgary, Monterrey, Leeds, etc and try the same.

However, all these cities have these things called "taxis." I
hear they exist in the USA, too.

>Drunken Canadian, Mexican, British, etc teenagers can close the bar, stagger
>onto a bus and their worst fear is falling asleep and missing their stop.

Nope. Drunken Montrealers, Mexico Citians, and Londoners sort of can.
Actually, it's a minor trick in London. Pubs close at 11, and tube
trains don't run much past midnight.

Anyway, the point is:

Montreal != Canada
Mexico State != Mexico
London != the UK

And that applies to most countries with beer-drinking cultures. The
biggest cities may have decent public transport, but not all cities
and towns do.

>Most drunken American teenagers have to drive home when they leave the bar.

A lot of drunken folks elsewhere do, too. But then, most drunken
American teenagers don't leave the bar, because most drunken American
teenagers don't get served at bars (yes, I know there are exceptions.
Shaddup). Most drunken American teenagers either sneak drinks at
home or at parties. They drive home from those parties.

>There's the difference.

Nearly a non-existent one, particularly in the case of Canada. Most
Canadian cities are big, sprawly things too, just like their
neighbo(u)rs to the south.
--
Nobody You Know

> The issue, imho, is in the importance of the car in American society.
Trying
> getting around any American city without one. Now go to, Montreal, Mexico
> City, London, etc and try the same.
>
> Drunken Canadian, Mexican, British, etc teenagers can close the bar,
stagger
> onto a bus and their worst fear is falling asleep and missing their stop.
>
> Most drunken American teenagers have to drive home when they leave the
bar.
If you can't get home without driving, then just stay... teenagers cannot
drink in bars in the US anyway so they're probably drinking at private
parties, what the hell fine by me, stay over, have a big breakfast and lunch
and then drive home. Drinking and driving is not ok! When you cannot stay,
sleep in your car or take a cab, even better go with friends and have a
designated driver. One of my friends doesn't drink at all, lucky me!

"Oh, Guess" > wrote in message
<Semi-OP said...>
> >The issue, imho, is in the importance of the car in American society.
Trying
> >getting around any American city without one.
>
> Let's see: San Francisco, Chicago, New York, Philadelphia, Boston,
> and Washington DC. All easy cities to get around in without a car.
> Not only that, but in NYC, the trains run 24/7, so it's possible to
> get from that freshly-closed bar to one's home without driving.

Goddamit, this is just bullshitto. Last Friday the Firkinteenth I thought,
hey, why not take public transport to the Grey Lodge? There's a SEPTA
station a mile and a half from my house, the bus runs from the Frankford El
right past the G-Lodge's front door, I'll do the right thing and make Frane
happy to boot.

After 15 minutes on SEPTA's website, I was laughing in disbelief. If I
drove, it would take 25 minutes. If I took public transit AND everything
clicked just right, my trip would take 2 hours and 20 minutes...and if I
wanted to come back home after 10:00, it would take me approximately 3 and a
half hours. That's almost 6 hours transit time to get to one bar. I could
get to DC in 6 hours travel time! Taking a cab would be ridiculous; assuming
I could find one willing to take me out to the 'burbs, the fare would be
approx. $45. We talked about renting a limo for a group: $150 minimum plus
$25 an hour waiting time.

NYC...no, Manhattan is great for getting around in public transit (though
Bill Coleman told me it would take him over 2.5 hours to get from his place
in Brooklyn to Staten Island, a trip I've made a number of times in under 30
minutes), especially if you throw cabs in the mix, DC is okay...as long as
you're on your final leg of the Metro by midnight (ooo, nice night out,
that). I've hit most of the high spots in Syracuse on foot and then hoofed
it to my hotel. But most of the cities I frequent are far-flung affairs, and
the public transit is just not up to a pubcrawl unless you tailor your
pubcrawl to the transit, which often severely limits your options.

Toronto's the only Canadian city I've ever tried to get around to bars in
without a car, and it was fantastic, a GREAT transit system...inside the
city. But MANY people live in the 'burbs these days, and much public transit
exists to get you from the 'burbs to the center of the city, and after that,
they're done with you, unless you want to face an absolutely daunting
labyrinth of bus routes.

I'm pretty happy with what I did last year for Split Thy Skull: drove down
to Standard Tap (about 30 minutes), parked, unstrapped the bike, and rode to
three bars down 2nd St. By the time I rode back, I was reasonably sober,
strapped the booger back up, and drove home.

Public transit's great for getting 'burbers into downtown jobs and back. For
much else, it's inadequate. IMHO.

--
Lew Bryson
"If developers intentionally built communities without local gathering
places and good sidewalks leading to them from every home, and did so for
the purpose of inhibiting the political processes of the society, we would
call it treason. Is the result any less negative without the intent?" -- Ray
Oldenburg, "The Great Good Place"
www.lewbryson.com
Author of the UPCOMING book "New York Breweries," and "Pennsylvania
Breweries," 2nd ed., available at
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...272174-3121415

Public Transport

I feel I need to represent "The Dirty South" and mention the MARTA in
Atlanta. I thought it was reasonable and not nearly as filthy or scary as
the El or Subways in Chicago and or the nightmare that is PT in LA. I go
from my Hotel to all sorts of places (including the Georgia Dome) in 20
minutes or less. OTOH who cares cuz it's Atlanta! ^_^ (no offense
atlantians)

On Wed, 24 Mar 2004 18:36:42 GMT, "Lew Bryson"
> wrote:

>"Oh, Guess" > wrote in message
><Semi-OP said...>
>> >The issue, imho, is in the importance of the car in American society.
>Trying
>> >getting around any American city without one.
>>
>> Let's see: San Francisco, Chicago, New York, Philadelphia, Boston,
>> and Washington DC. All easy cities to get around in without a car.
>> Not only that, but in NYC, the trains run 24/7, so it's possible to
>> get from that freshly-closed bar to one's home without driving.
>
>Goddamit, this is just bullshitto. Last Friday the Firkinteenth I thought,
>hey, why not take public transport to the Grey Lodge? There's a SEPTA
>station a mile and a half from my house, the bus runs from the Frankford El
>right past the G-Lodge's front door, I'll do the right thing and make Frane
>happy to boot.
>
>After 15 minutes on SEPTA's website, I was laughing in disbelief. If I
>drove, it would take 25 minutes. If I took public transit AND everything
>clicked just right, my trip would take 2 hours and 20 minutes...and if I
>wanted to come back home after 10:00, it would take me approximately 3 and a
>half hours. That's almost 6 hours transit time to get to one bar.

"Easy city to get around in without a car" != "Easy to get from out in
bum**** suburbia into town, and back again easily." My counterexample
was experienced just last December. We stayed at the Hyatt by the
river, and relied on feet and public transport for our in-town beer-
drinking excursions. (We went out to Downingtown with a friend in his
car, but I have no delusions about mass transit getting out that far
easily. Europe, OTOH, no prob.) If you lived closer to Center City,
you'd not have the problems you experienced. And that's no bullshit.

>NYC...no, Manhattan is great for getting around in public transit (though
>Bill Coleman told me it would take him over 2.5 hours to get from his place
>in Brooklyn to Staten Island, a trip I've made a number of times in under 30
>minutes)

Staten Island is an odd case, because the trains don't go there. It's
more of a suburb than an NYC borough, classification be damned. Last
time I was in NYC, I stayed in Manhattan, but had no problem going out
to the Bohemian Club in Queens, or to places like Sparky's, Mug's, and
other Brooklyn joints, including a great steak lunch at Peter Luger's.


> especially if you throw cabs in the mix, DC is okay...as long as
>you're on your final leg of the Metro by midnight (ooo, nice night out,
>that).

Feh. It's DC. Just wind up at a halfway decent joint near where you
live or are staying.

> I've hit most of the high spots in Syracuse on foot and then hoofed
>it to my hotel. But most of the cities I frequent are far-flung affairs, and
>the public transit is just not up to a pubcrawl unless you tailor your
>pubcrawl to the transit, which often severely limits your options.

True for any second-tier (or lower) American city, Syracuse or else-
where. Also true for many second-tier cities elsewhere.

>Toronto's the only Canadian city I've ever tried to get around to bars in
>without a car, and it was fantastic, a GREAT transit system...inside the
>city. But MANY people live in the 'burbs these days, and much public transit
>exists to get you from the 'burbs to the center of the city, and after that,
>they're done with you, unless you want to face an absolutely daunting
>labyrinth of bus routes.

Daunting? Feh. I've even figured out buses in London. Not that big
of a deal.

>I'm pretty happy with what I did last year for Split Thy Skull: drove down
>to Standard Tap (about 30 minutes), parked, unstrapped the bike, and rode to
>three bars down 2nd St. By the time I rode back, I was reasonably sober,
>strapped the booger back up, and drove home.

Not a bad way to go, either.

>Public transit's great for getting 'burbers into downtown jobs and back. For
>much else, it's inadequate. IMHO.

I've used public transit in all the cities I've mentioned for bar-
hopping and beer-drinkin'. Worked quite well, thanks. But that's
because I was *in* the city - not journeying from suburbia to town.
It's a matter of perspective. And I know from that, because I live in
a city where transport options for pub-hopping basically suck azz.
--
Nobody You Know

"Oh, Guess" > wrote in message
> On Wed, 24 Mar 2004 18:36:42 GMT, "Lew Bryson"
> >Goddamit, this is just bullshitto. Last Friday the Firkinteenth I
thought,
> >hey, why not take public transport to the Grey Lodge? There's a SEPTA
> >station a mile and a half from my house, the bus runs from the Frankford
El
> >right past the G-Lodge's front door, I'll do the right thing and make
Frane
> >happy to boot.
> >
> >After 15 minutes on SEPTA's website, I was laughing in disbelief. If I
> >drove, it would take 25 minutes. If I took public transit AND everything
> >clicked just right, my trip would take 2 hours and 20 minutes...and if I
> >wanted to come back home after 10:00, it would take me approximately 3
and a
> >half hours. That's almost 6 hours transit time to get to one bar.
>
> "Easy city to get around in without a car" != "Easy to get from out in
> bum**** suburbia into town, and back again easily."

Well, damn, boy, you may not have noticed, but a whole LOT of us live in the
suburbs! We're what sprawl is all about. And I can take my bike into Newtown
and get to two, maybe three places that are worth the trip -- no, only one's
worth the trip -- but to get to anywhere else in the 'burbs takes a car.
This is the big blind spot of public transit types who wave their hands and
praise mass transit as the solution to traffic congestion: LOTS of people
live AND work in the 'burbs. And lots of us live and DRINK in the 'burbs,
too.

> My counterexample
> was experienced just last December. We stayed at the Hyatt by the
> river, and relied on feet and public transport for our in-town beer-
> drinking excursions. (We went out to Downingtown with a friend in his
> car, but I have no delusions about mass transit getting out that far
> easily. Europe, OTOH, no prob.) If you lived closer to Center City,
> you'd not have the problems you experienced. And that's no bullshit.

If I lived closer to Center City (and thank you for your sensitivity in not
calling it "downtown," so many out-of-towners miss that) and wanted to use
public transit, it would limit my options. I'd spend a lot more time at the
same places. That ain't all bad, but it's not how I like to operate. Point
is...I don't live closer to Center City, and there are a lot of people like
me, and not just in the Philadelphia area. Even if I did take transit in, my
choices are a pain in the dinky: the only workable route into Center City is
the SEPTA local from PennDel, which takes almost an hour to get to Suburban
Station. Oh, me aching arse.

> >NYC...no, Manhattan is great for getting around in public transit (though
> >Bill Coleman told me it would take him over 2.5 hours to get from his
place
> >in Brooklyn to Staten Island, a trip I've made a number of times in under
30
> >minutes)
>
> Staten Island is an odd case, because the trains don't go there. It's
> more of a suburb than an NYC borough, classification be damned.

Okay, I'll give you that one.

> > especially if you throw cabs in the mix, DC is okay...as long as
> >you're on your final leg of the Metro by midnight (ooo, nice night out,
> >that).
>
> Feh. It's DC. Just wind up at a halfway decent joint near where you
> live or are staying.

Provincialist. There's much in DC that is good, and you brush it aside
BECAUSE YOU KNOW I'M RIGHT!!!!! Maybe.

> >Toronto's the only Canadian city I've ever tried to get around to bars in
> >without a car, and it was fantastic, a GREAT transit system...inside the
> >city. But MANY people live in the 'burbs these days, and much public
transit
> >exists to get you from the 'burbs to the center of the city, and after
that,
> >they're done with you, unless you want to face an absolutely daunting
> >labyrinth of bus routes.
>
> Daunting? Feh. I've even figured out buses in London. Not that big
> of a deal.

Is a big deal. Why should I figger a damned bus system that doesn't run to
my schedule when I can tootle down 95 instead? I get into Philly two or
three times a month. Most of the times I do, I'm waiting till my wife gets
home from work, a variable I cannot adjust, then jumping in the car to fly
down 95 or the Boulevard to get to an event that's usually already started.
If I took transit, we'd be getting into the city around 8:00, with a cab
ride or bus ride still ahead of us. If we were going to a show, that's fine.
But beer dinners usually start by 7:30 at latest.

> >Public transit's great for getting 'burbers into downtown jobs and back.
For
> >much else, it's inadequate. IMHO.
>
> I've used public transit in all the cities I've mentioned for bar-
> hopping and beer-drinkin'. Worked quite well, thanks. But that's
> because I was *in* the city - not journeying from suburbia to town.
> It's a matter of perspective.

That's not perspective, that's reality. My whole point is that if you're IN
the city, things are different. If you're not, and want to go into the city
and get around, it makes more sense to use a car and bitch about parking
prices.

--
Lew Bryson

www.LewBryson.com
Author of "New York Breweries" and "Pennsylvania Breweries," 2nd ed., both
available at <www.amazon.com>
The Hotmail address on this post is for newsgroups only: I don't check it,
or respond to it. Spam away.

Lew Bryson > wrote:
> Oh Guess:
>> "Easy city to get around in without a car" != "Easy to get from out in
>> bum**** suburbia into town, and back again easily."
>
>Well, damn, boy, you may not have noticed, but a whole LOT of us live in the
>suburbs! We're what sprawl is all about.
>This is the big blind spot of public transit types who wave their hands and
>praise mass transit as the solution to traffic congestion: LOTS of people
>live AND work in the 'burbs. And lots of us live and DRINK in the 'burbs,
>too.

Those of us who wave our hands and use mass transit think
you're part of the problem. ;-)
--
Joel Plutchak "Senza la birra tutto diventa orfano."
plutchak@[...] - Italian proverb (slightly revised)

"Joel" > wrote in message news:c41mlm$247
> Lew Bryson > wrote:
> > Oh Guess:
> >> "Easy city to get around in without a car" != "Easy to get from out in
> >> bum**** suburbia into town, and back again easily."
> >
> >Well, damn, boy, you may not have noticed, but a whole LOT of us live in
the
> >suburbs! We're what sprawl is all about.
> >This is the big blind spot of public transit types who wave their hands
and
> >praise mass transit as the solution to traffic congestion: LOTS of people
> >live AND work in the 'burbs. And lots of us live and DRINK in the 'burbs,
> >too.
>
> Those of us who wave our hands and use mass transit think
> you're part of the problem. ;-)

You're missing the problem. You have a teeny-tiny partial solution, and like
ignerant bastids who think 120 Minute IPA is the be-all and end-all of beer,
you think you've found the magic potion. Solve sprawl, dammit, and don't
make me suffer to do it!

Not asking too much, am I? Suburbs are a fact, though, and they gotta be
included in a wise solution. Mass transit, as it exists, is not that.

--
Lew Bryson
"I do not at all resent criticism, even when, for the sake of emphasis, it
for a time parts company with reality." -- Winston S. Churchill
www.lewbryson.com
Author of the UPCOMING book "New York Breweries," and "Pennsylvania
Breweries," 2nd ed., available at
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...272174-3121415

"Lew Bryson" > wrote in message
news
> Not asking too much, am I? Suburbs are a fact, though, and they gotta be
> included in a wise solution. Mass transit, as it exists, is not that.

If you qualify that with "Mass transit, as it exists in this country, is not
that," I'm right there with you. I live in übersuburbia now here in Orange
County, and any sort of public transport is not even remotely practical
should I want to go out drinking even to local places, let alone up in LA.
Simply getting to the Rock Bottom about 8 miles away would be nearly
impossible. Let's say I wanted to go there tonight: the nearest stop is not
in walking distance. OK, I'll let that slide for the moment. To go *8
miles*, it would take 1:14, according to the Orange County Transit
Authority's trip planner. I can drive there in 15-20. Uh, no.

Now, suburban areas in non-American cities often (but not always) have much
more workable approaches. Hence the qualifier.

Building adequate public transport networks in the States would take
trillions of dollars. If we had unlimited money, I think that would be a
smashing idea. Sadly, when even "conservatives" spend like drunken sailors,
I don't think that'll be happening soon.

-STeve

"Lew Bryson" > a écrit dans le message de
news
> "Joel" > wrote in message news:c41mlm$247
> > Lew Bryson > wrote:
> > > Oh Guess:
> > >> "Easy city to get around in without a car" != "Easy to get from out
in
> > >> bum**** suburbia into town, and back again easily."
> > >
> > >Well, damn, boy, you may not have noticed, but a whole LOT of us live
in
> the
> > >suburbs! We're what sprawl is all about.
> > >This is the big blind spot of public transit types who wave their hands
> and
> > >praise mass transit as the solution to traffic congestion: LOTS of
people
> > >live AND work in the 'burbs. And lots of us live and DRINK in the
'burbs,
> > >too.
> >
> > Those of us who wave our hands and use mass transit think
> > you're part of the problem. ;-)
>
> You're missing the problem. You have a teeny-tiny partial solution, and
like
> ignerant bastids who think 120 Minute IPA is the be-all and end-all of
beer,
> you think you've found the magic potion. Solve sprawl, dammit, and don't
> make me suffer to do it!
>
> Not asking too much, am I? Suburbs are a fact, though, and they gotta be
> included in a wise solution. Mass transit, as it exists, is not that.
>
> --
> Lew Bryson
> "I do not at all resent criticism, even when, for the sake of emphasis, it
> for a time parts company with reality." -- Winston S. Churchill
> www.lewbryson.com
> Author of the UPCOMING book "New York Breweries," and "Pennsylvania
> Breweries," 2nd ed., available at
>
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...272174-3121415
>

Some years ago i read an article about a suvey they made in LA subburbs
asking if people would be in favor of spending to make a better public
transit system. The vast majority of people where in favor, even at the cost
of increased taxes.

Before going along with the spending a new survey asked why it would be so
great and all answer where someting in the line of that if there was a
better public transit system, their neighbours would use it so they could
have more space on the highway... Everyone was in favor of better public
transport but nobody would use it.

I think that a lot of people view those who use public transport as second
class citizens. In north america you are nobody untill you have a car. You
are rigth when you say that public transport is not the answer to all
problems and no not apply to every one but i think that there is a need to a
new way to see the problems of comuting, either for work or for pleasure.
Our whole society is based around cars and lots of town are made in a way
that cars are not a choice but a necessity. Last year we had our first day
where cars where banned from downtown (only a few hours and a few blocs) and
lots of people where reacting like democraty had been thrown away but after
a while stats proved that even that small restriction had been enough to
lower signifantly the level of polution and the number of emergency entry to
hospitals (by reducing car crash and the number of asthma crisis).

The problem with drunk driving is the same, instead of putting all the blame
on alcohol, it may be time to consider the problem as a whole, why young
people get drunk instead of learning to have a healty relation with alcohol
and why do they drive when drunk.
--
Altair (:-o)>=®
"The History of every major Galactic Civilisation tends to pass through
three distinct and recognisable phases... characterised by the questions How
can we eat? Why do we eat? and Where shall we have lunch?"
Douglas Adams.

Beer vending machines used to be common place here in the States until the
National Manditory Drinking Age Act (21) went into affect backin the 80's.
When I was in the military in Jacksonville, FL there were beer machines in
the barracks, bowling alley, laundromat, and just about everywhere else
until that dreadful Act went into affect. Then, if you had a military ID you
would be served in any bar reguardless of age. It's still my personal
opinion that if a young man is old enough to vote and be shot while
defending his country he should be able to legally buy a drink.
BUBBA

Chipper > wrote in message
0...
> http://www.thetoque.com/040316/beervending.htm
>
> This could be a good thing...as long as you have change.
>

Bubba@FL wrote:
> Beer vending machines used to be common place here in the States

Common? I don't know about that. I've lived in the US all my life
(well, a coupla months in Canada and a couple of weeks in the UK and one
afternoon in Mexico), of legal drinking age for 30+ years, have lived in
half dozen states and drank in about half of the 50 states and have
NEVER seen one. Wasn't in the military, tho' (hey, I had a high draft
lottery number- honest!) but, then, if they existed on military bases
only I'd say that doesn't qualify as "common place".

I am from Montreal,Quebec, so naturally I am interested. What, pray
tell, is a Toque's satire ? It reperesents a serious gap in my otherwise
liberal education.

Thank you

Andy

whammo wrote:
> A few years ago while in Japan, I saw beer and even Scotch in a street What is a Toque satirw ?
> vending machine. I asked my Japanese associate "don't the kids buy that
> and get drunk?" He looked at me kinda funny and replied
> "no".....thinking like an American where anarchy runs wild on a Saturday
> night...I asked "why not?"....he replied, without smiling...."because
> they know that they are not supposed to"....(why didn't I think of that?)
>
> Kim
>
>
>
>
> Oh, Guess wrote:
>
>> On 21 Mar 2004 19:59:37 -0800, Chipper > wrote:
>>
>>
>>> http://www.thetoque.com/040316/beervending.htm
>>>
>>> This could be a good thing...as long as you have change.
>>
>>
>>
>> This could be funny... if it was funny. Beer vending machines are
>> found in Europe and Japan. Maybe the Canadians should get a hint.
>> The Toque's "satire" only works for Canadians.
>
>

the toque is a website
see link farther down in post


"Andrew Layton" > wrote in message
...
> I am from Montreal,Quebec, so naturally I am interested. What, pray
> tell, is a Toque's satire ? It reperesents a serious gap in my otherwise
> liberal education.
>
> Thank you
>
> Andy
>
> whammo wrote:
> > A few years ago while in Japan, I saw beer and even Scotch in a street
What is a Toque satirw ?
> > vending machine. I asked my Japanese associate "don't the kids buy that
> > and get drunk?" He looked at me kinda funny and replied
> > "no".....thinking like an American where anarchy runs wild on a Saturday
> > night...I asked "why not?"....he replied, without smiling...."because
> > they know that they are not supposed to"....(why didn't I think of
that?)
> >
> > Kim
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Oh, Guess wrote:
> >
> >> On 21 Mar 2004 19:59:37 -0800, Chipper > wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> http://www.thetoque.com/040316/beervending.htm
> >>>
> >>> This could be a good thing...as long as you have change.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> This could be funny... if it was funny. Beer vending machines are
> >> found in Europe and Japan. Maybe the Canadians should get a hint.
> >> The Toque's "satire" only works for Canadians.
> >
> >
>

"Andrew Layton" > a écrit dans le message de
...
> I am from Montreal,Quebec, so naturally I am interested. What, pray
> tell, is a Toque's satire ? It reperesents a serious gap in my otherwise
> liberal education.
>
> Thank you
>
> Andy

I'm also from Montreal and "The Toque" is the name of the name of the
website where this article was found and by "satire" he means that this
article should not be taken seriously. As the reference where it could work
only for Canadian, maybe it's because we have a more heatlfull relation with
alcohol than american and think that education is better than coertion
concerning alcohol and don't try to make our kids belive that alcohol don't
exist until theyre 21.

P.S: Toqué is also the name of probably the best restaurant in Montreal.
--
Altair (:-o)>=®
"The History of every major Galactic Civilisation tends to pass through
three distinct and recognisable phases... characterised by the questions How
can we eat? Why do we eat? and Where shall we have lunch?"
Douglas Adams.
>
> whammo wrote:
> > A few years ago while in Japan, I saw beer and even Scotch in a street
What is a Toque satirw ?
> > vending machine. I asked my Japanese associate "don't the kids buy that
> > and get drunk?" He looked at me kinda funny and replied
> > "no".....thinking like an American where anarchy runs wild on a Saturday
> > night...I asked "why not?"....he replied, without smiling...."because
> > they know that they are not supposed to"....(why didn't I think of
that?)
> >
> > Kim
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Oh, Guess wrote:
> >
> >> On 21 Mar 2004 19:59:37 -0800, Chipper > wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> http://www.thetoque.com/040316/beervending.htm
> >>>
> >>> This could be a good thing...as long as you have change.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> This could be funny... if it was funny. Beer vending machines are
> >> found in Europe and Japan. Maybe the Canadians should get a hint.
> >> The Toque's "satire" only works for Canadians.
> >
> >
>

On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 at 00:19 GMT, <sylvain.dupuis@NoSpam> wrote:

> I always wondered what is percentage of people get killed in alcohol related
> accident in country like USA where it's far easyer to buy a machine gun at
> 18 than buy a beer compared to countrys where alcohol is part of day to day
> life like in France and Italy.

It is not easier to buy a machine gun at 18 than to buy a beer.


--
L.V.X., brother mouse
http://www.mousetrap.net/otr/ Old Time Radio trades
http://makeashorterlink.com/?K16312E06 CBS Radio Mystery Theater database
http://greyhound.mousetrap.net/altus/ retired racing dog

Altair > typed this:
>
> P.S: Toqué is also the name of probably the best restaurant in
> Montreal.

AND hep snow-hats.

fr0glet

"Oh, Guess" > wrote in message
...
> Hint: Sprawl is enabled by something. What is that something?
<SNIP>
> If the something I'm thinking about goes away, will suburbs and the
> living patterns they engender continue to be a fact? Suburbs are a
> fact because of an enabling factor that allows people to live in this
> manner. If the factor goes away, what becomes of suburban sprawl?

You REALLY think the private auto will go away?

Or were you talking about female emancipation?

--
Lew Bryson

www.LewBryson.com
Author of "New York Breweries" and "Pennsylvania Breweries," 2nd ed., both
available at <www.amazon.com>
The Hotmail address on this post is for newsgroups only: I don't check it,
or respond to it. Spam away.

Lew Bryson wrote:

> "Oh, Guess" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Hint: Sprawl is enabled by something. What is that something?
>
> <SNIP>
>
>>If the something I'm thinking about goes away, will suburbs and the
>>living patterns they engender continue to be a fact? Suburbs are a
>>fact because of an enabling factor that allows people to live in this
>>manner. If the factor goes away, what becomes of suburban sprawl?
>
> You REALLY think the private auto will go away?

It will change in nature, even if it doesn't go away, and relative
chunk it will take out of a budget to power one is going to get much
bigger in the future. The enabling factor to which I'm referring isn't
the private auto per se, but the means of powering it (and many, many
other things.)

> Or were you talking about female emancipation?

Hey, I'm glad to have a female designated driver in the house on
those occasions when one is handy to have around. Doesn't mean
I couldn't have gotten home from last Tuesday's night out by
another means, but I like having the company.
--
dgs