Does beer expire.... like Heineken...all this

"Hoo" > wrote in message
...
> Does beer expire.... like Heineken...all this
>
Depending on alcohol strength... yes it usually does expire with time. Most
beers will last about a year, but your high alcohol brews (greater than
perhaps 10% alcohol by volume) might last forever and get even better with
age, just like a fine wine.

--
Dave
"Just a drink, a little drink, and I'll be feeling GOOooOOooOOooD!" --
Genesis, 1973-ish

On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 08:00:39 -0600, "David M. Taylor"
> wrote:

>"Hoo" > wrote in message
...
>> Does beer expire.... like Heineken...all this
>>
>Depending on alcohol strength... yes it usually does expire with time. Most
>beers will last about a year, but your high alcohol brews (greater than
>perhaps 10% alcohol by volume) might last forever and get even better with
>age, just like a fine wine.

And keeping it cool will also add to how long you can keep it.


Phil

Phil wrote:

>
> And keeping it cool will also add to how long you can keep it.
>

I wonder if the "keep it cool" really has that much of an effect on the
typical light lager, pasteurized bottled/canned beer? While I wouldn't
want it to get HOT and I'll always go for a "always refrigerated"
from-the-cooler 6 pack of this type of beer before I'll buy an "off the
warm shelf, exposed to light" 6 pack I wonder if keeping these beers
"cool" *extends* their shelf life or, more accurately, abusing the beer
by getting them hot reduces the shelf life.

"Hoo" > wrote in message
...
> Does beer expire.... like Heineken...all this

Most commercial beer -- even microbrewed stuff -- is bottled after
carbonation. As a result, there is some oxygen in the bottle. This
oxygen does bad things to the beer after a while.

Most home brewed beer is naturally carbonated in the bottle. This is
done by adding some sugar (or malt) to the beer before bottling it.
Once the bottles are sealed, the yeast consumes the sugar and what
little oxygen is left in the bottle, and produces carbon dioxide and
alcohol. As a result, brew that is naturally carbonated in the bottle
contains no oxygen.

I just recently finished drinking the beer that I made for my wedding in
1994. It was good to the last drop. No, it wasn't heavily alcoholic.


Ray Drouillard

Yes Beer does expire abut the shelf life depends on 4 things quality,
alcohol volume and Packaging and storage

About quality
adjuncts has a negative impact on shelf life which is why Bud (who uses
rice) and miller (who uses Corn) seldom
have any more then a year of shelf life before going off taste while quality
Beers from England Ireland Belgium and Germany etc. can last 4-5 years and
even longer if properly stored and packaged

About alcohol volume
the Higher the alcohol volume the longer a beer can last
but there still are limits as even wine often make nice wine vinegar if
stored to long

about Packaging
Clear bottle are the worst as beer is very susceptible to sun spoilage and
Ceramic bottles the best. brown is the most commonly found and green is
better then clear but not as good as brown

About storage
A common myth is beer needs to be refrigerated while being stored. This
simply not true as beer is never refrigerated from the point of production
to the store
but it is recommended once you refrigerate your beer keep it there and avoid
storing in any area you would conceder unpleasant to yourself

rpga wrote:
> Yes Beer does expire abut the shelf life depends on 4 things quality,
> alcohol volume and Packaging and storage

You left out bottle-conditioning. Live yeast in a beer can prolong the
beer better than killing the beer by pasteurization.

>
> About quality
> adjuncts has a negative impact on shelf life which is why Bud (who uses
> rice) and miller (who uses Corn) seldom
> have any more then a year of shelf life before going off taste while quality
> Beers from England Ireland Belgium and Germany etc. can last 4-5 years and
> even longer if properly stored and packaged

B*llshit. Light lagers, all malt or not, from the US or Europe, just
don't last 4-5 years or longer. (Ever have a year old Pilsner Urquell
or Jever, even one that HASN'T been exposed to light?) I'd be very
surprised that corn or rice (both used in some European beers) reduce
shelf life very much. And, since the OP was talking Heineken, that's
what the thread's been about.

Are there beers (in the US and in Europe) that can stand longer storage
and even benefit from it? Oh, yeah, but telling that to the guy with
the year old Dutch lager ain't gonna help him.
>
> About alcohol volume
> the Higher the alcohol volume the longer a beer can last
> but there still are limits as even wine often make nice wine vinegar if
> stored to long

Sorry, pal- you don't get vinegar from storing any wine "too long". You
get it when the wine is exposed to air and the vinegar bacteria. Do you
get off flavors, some similar to vinegar. Yup. But it ain't "vinegar".



>
> about Packaging
> Clear bottle are the worst as beer is very susceptible to sun spoilage and
> Ceramic bottles the best. brown is the most commonly found and green is
> better then clear but not as good as brown

Granted. But the OP was talking about old beer. Heineken in green
glass turns skunky in a few hours.


>
> About storage
> A common myth is beer needs to be refrigerated while being stored.

It is? Well, there sure are a TON of retailers who don't believe that
'myth'...


This
> simply not true as beer is never refrigerated from the point of production
> to the store >

In the US, most draft beer is kept refrigerated. During bottling many
beers are kept very cold. Coors in bottles and can used to shipped and
stored that way as well.

but it is recommended once you refrigerate your beer keep it there and
avoid
> storing in any area you would conceder unpleasant to yourself

HUH? Well, I consider a refrigerator "unpleasant"- dark, cold and kinda
snug.
>
>

rpga wrote:

>Yes Beer does expire abut the shelf life depends on 4 things quality,
>alcohol volume and Packaging and storage
>
Too simplistic a view, I'm afraid.

>About quality
>adjuncts has a negative impact on shelf life which is why Bud (who uses
>rice) and miller (who uses Corn) seldom
>have any more then a year of shelf life before going off taste
>
The big problem of those beers, rather than adjuncts, is their hops
contents are far too low. Hops are a natural preservative that can help
the shelf life of a beer a great deal...

>while quality
>Beers from England Ireland Belgium and Germany etc. can last 4-5 years and
>even longer if properly stored and packaged
>
Well, sorry to disagree, but most European quality beers simply won't
ever last that long and still be drinkable, even if kept in closed
cardboard boxes in a good cellar !...

Irish ? 5YO Kilkenny is a wet cardboard nightmare, so is the rest, at
that age (...

Most German beers, be they lagers, Weizens, Altbiere or Kölsche should
be drunk fresh, at the latest 9 to 12 months after production,
preferably within three months.

I wouldn't dream of keeping most British bottled beers for more than 18
months, even bottle-conditioned ones, for many develop yeast autolysis
flavours...

Even Belgian beers are not 100% good cellaring material... (

Basically... anything with more than 6% ABV and decent hopping,
preferably along with bottle-conditioning (ie live yeast in the bottle),
has some cellaring potential (ie. about 18 months to two years). Smoked
malt does seem to help a bit too.
Most beers that will keep longer than that, five years or so, are
usually 8% ABV +, or sourish beers (Flemish Oud Bruins and proper
Gueuzes are examples)
But there's no absolute rules, only way to know is to give it a try...
buy a crate of 12, stash it away in your cellar and grab a bottle every
three to four months.

>About alcohol volume
>the Higher the alcohol volume the longer a beer can last
>but there still are limits as even wine often make nice wine vinegar if
>stored to long
>
I know of a few 9% lagers that won't really keep well past 12 months...
no absolute factor here.

>about Packaging
>Clear bottle are the worst as beer is very susceptible to sun spoilage
>
Specifically : light wavelengths that corresponds to blue and green (=>
mostly sun light and neon lights, and why green glass is not a good
protection)

>and
>Ceramic bottles the best. brown is the most commonly found and green is
>better then clear but not as good as brown
>
If you buy your bottle by the cardboard case and keep it in a dark
cellar, this is not too much of a problem.
Glass color is more of an issue in retail where neon lights are
everywhere => check the glass color *to avoid buying beer that's already
skunked*.

>About storage
>A common myth is beer needs to be refrigerated while being stored. This
>simply not true as beer is never refrigerated from the point of production
>to the store
>
Indeed, but keeping your beer in a cellar, at a constant 12-14°C
temperature, constant humidity and away from direct light does help an
awful lot !

>but it is recommended once you refrigerate your beer keep it there and avoid
>storing in any area you would conceder unpleasant to yourself
>
I wouldn't dream of living in my cellar, bit too cold and damp, yet it
does wonders to my beer )

Cheers !

Laurent

--
Warning : you may encounter French language beyond this point.

Andromaque, mets ta laine !
(F'murrr)

Laurent Mousson, Berne, Switzerland

> wrote in message
et...
> rpga wrote:
> > Yes Beer does expire abut the shelf life depends on 4 things
quality,
> > alcohol volume and Packaging and storage
>
> You left out bottle-conditioning. Live yeast in a beer can prolong
the
> beer better than killing the beer by pasteurization.
>
> >
> > About quality
> > adjuncts has a negative impact on shelf life which is why Bud (who
uses
> > rice) and miller (who uses Corn) seldom
> > have any more then a year of shelf life before going off taste while
quality
> > Beers from England Ireland Belgium and Germany etc. can last 4-5
years and
> > even longer if properly stored and packaged
>
> B*llshit. Light lagers, all malt or not, from the US or Europe, just
> don't last 4-5 years or longer. (Ever have a year old Pilsner Urquell
> or Jever, even one that HASN'T been exposed to light?) I'd be very
> surprised that corn or rice (both used in some European beers) reduce
> shelf life very much. And, since the OP was talking Heineken, that's
> what the thread's been about.

I just recently finished the beer that I brewed in 1994 for my wedding.
Even the light stuff was good to the last drop.

I believe the secret is in the conditioning. When beer is naturally
conditioned, all of the oxygen in the bottle is used up by the yeast.


>
> Are there beers (in the US and in Europe) that can stand longer
storage
> and even benefit from it? Oh, yeah, but telling that to the guy with
> the year old Dutch lager ain't gonna help him.

I had some beer with a relatively high alcohol content (about 6.6%) that
wasn't very good until I let it age a while.


[...]

> > about Packaging
> > Clear bottle are the worst as beer is very susceptible to sun
spoilage and
> > Ceramic bottles the best. brown is the most commonly found and green
is
> > better then clear but not as good as brown
>
> Granted. But the OP was talking about old beer. Heineken in green
> glass turns skunky in a few hours.

heh...

I have stored beer in clear bottles, but I am careful to keep the
bottles well boxed and out of the light.


>
>
> >
> > About storage
> > A common myth is beer needs to be refrigerated while being stored.
>
> It is? Well, there sure are a TON of retailers who don't believe that
> 'myth'...

My beer lasted twelve years without being refrigerated. It was kept at
about 60-70 degrees F, depending on the season.


> This
> > simply not true as beer is never refrigerated from the point of
production
> > to the store >
>
> In the US, most draft beer is kept refrigerated. During bottling many
> beers are kept very cold. Coors in bottles and can used to shipped
and
> stored that way as well.

I suspect that refrigeration will slow down the oxidation process. If I
had beer with oxygen still in the bottle, I would keep it refrigerated.


>
> but it is recommended once you refrigerate your beer keep it there
and
> avoid
> > storing in any area you would conceder unpleasant to yourself
>
> HUH? Well, I consider a refrigerator "unpleasant"- dark, cold and
kinda
> snug.

LOL



Ray Drouillard

I can honestly say the issue has never come up at our gaff - the beer's
never on the shelf long enough.



"Ray Drouillard" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Hoo" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Does beer expire.... like Heineken...all this
>
> Most commercial beer -- even microbrewed stuff -- is bottled after
> carbonation. As a result, there is some oxygen in the bottle. This
> oxygen does bad things to the beer after a while.
>
> Most home brewed beer is naturally carbonated in the bottle. This is
> done by adding some sugar (or malt) to the beer before bottling it.
> Once the bottles are sealed, the yeast consumes the sugar and what
> little oxygen is left in the bottle, and produces carbon dioxide and
> alcohol. As a result, brew that is naturally carbonated in the bottle
> contains no oxygen.
>
> I just recently finished drinking the beer that I made for my wedding in
> 1994. It was good to the last drop. No, it wasn't heavily alcoholic.
>
>
> Ray Drouillard
>
>
>