There are several fine dishes that take 24 hr or more to prepare;
among them are things like Peking Duck, Veal Orloff, beef demi-glace,
and so on. But can any of these hold a candle to a whopping big beef
brisket, slathered in cheap yellow mustard and loving rubbed in salt,
pepper, spices, and herbs, smoked slowly over wood until that perfect
moment when the connective tissue has melted and part of the internal
fat has rendered, and the flesh yields to the merest poke of a fork?

Wrapped and rested, and then sliced across the grain, allowing for the
change of the grain as one passes from the flat to the point - it is
truly the King of Cuisine.

And I've got a 15 lb'er in the pit at this moment.

In article .com>,
"Louis Cohen" > wrote:

> There are several fine dishes that take 24 hr or more to prepare;
> among them are things like Peking Duck, Veal Orloff, beef demi-glace,
> and so on. But can any of these hold a candle to a whopping big beef
> brisket, slathered in cheap yellow mustard and loving rubbed in salt,
> pepper, spices, and herbs, smoked slowly over wood until that perfect
> moment when the connective tissue has melted and part of the internal
> fat has rendered, and the flesh yields to the merest poke of a fork?
>
> Wrapped and rested, and then sliced across the grain, allowing for the
> change of the grain as one passes from the flat to the point - it is
> truly the King of Cuisine.
>
> And I've got a 15 lb'er in the pit at this moment.

Hope you are making the appropriate side dishes to go with that? ;-)
--
Peace, Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

I'm got a while to think about it. My BBQ reflex is usually for a
vinegar-based slaw (or, in season, a tomato-cucumber-bell pepper salad)
and a vinegar based potato salad.

Maybe I'll roast some spuds in the pit as the brisket finishes, and
then cut them up and season them with some sherry vinegar.

Louis Cohen wrote:

>There are several fine dishes that take 24 hr or more to prepare;
>among them are things like Peking Duck, Veal Orloff, beef demi-glace,
>and so on. But can any of these hold a candle to a whopping big beef
>brisket, slathered in cheap yellow mustard and loving rubbed in salt,
>pepper, spices, and herbs, smoked slowly over wood until that perfect
>moment when the connective tissue has melted and part of the internal
>fat has rendered, and the flesh yields to the merest poke of a fork?
>
>Wrapped and rested, and then sliced across the grain, allowing for the
>change of the grain as one passes from the flat to the point - it is
>truly the King of Cuisine.
>
>And I've got a 15 lb'er in the pit at this moment.
>
>
>
What is it with you people who like to cook meat until it can be eaten
with just a fork? Have you all got bad teeth or what? ;-)

Personally I don't think you can beat rare roast rib eye beef, tender
because it's been properly aged, and not buggerised around with mustard
and spices and stuff that interfere with the flavour of the meat. But it
only takes about an hour from go to whoa, depending on the size.

Christine

Old Mother Ashby > wrote:
> Louis Cohen wrote:
>
> >There are several fine dishes that take 24 hr or more to prepare;
> >among them are things like Peking Duck, Veal Orloff, beef demi-glace,
> >and so on. But can any of these hold a candle to a whopping big beef
> >brisket, slathered in cheap yellow mustard and loving rubbed in salt,
> >pepper, spices, and herbs, smoked slowly over wood until that perfect
> >moment when the connective tissue has melted and part of the internal
> >fat has rendered, and the flesh yields to the merest poke of a fork?
> >
> >Wrapped and rested, and then sliced across the grain, allowing for the
> >change of the grain as one passes from the flat to the point - it is
> >truly the King of Cuisine.
> >
> >And I've got a 15 lb'er in the pit at this moment.
> >
> What is it with you people who like to cook meat until it can be eaten
> with just a fork? Have you all got bad teeth or what? ;-)
>
> Personally I don't think you can beat rare roast rib eye beef, tender
> because it's been properly aged, and not buggerised around with mustard
> and spices and stuff that interfere with the flavour of the meat. But it
> only takes about an hour from go to whoa, depending on the size.
>
An interesting introduction. Have you read the BBQ FAQ, Christine? Most of
us like our more tender cuts of beef (and lamb) rare or less. Brisket is a
tough cut and requires the patient, tender loving care that Louis is
providing this one. 15#'er has to be a Packer Cut. Mmmm.

Christine, read this: http://www.eaglequest.com/~bbq/

--
Nick. Support severely wounded and disabled War on Terror Veterans and
their families:
http://saluteheroes.org/ & http://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/

Thank a Veteran and Support Our Troops. You are not forgotten. Thanks ! ! !

In article
>,
Old Mother Ashby > wrote:

> Louis Cohen wrote:
>
> >There are several fine dishes that take 24 hr or more to prepare;
> >among them are things like Peking Duck, Veal Orloff, beef demi-glace,
> >and so on. But can any of these hold a candle to a whopping big beef
> >brisket, slathered in cheap yellow mustard and loving rubbed in salt,
> >pepper, spices, and herbs, smoked slowly over wood until that perfect
> >moment when the connective tissue has melted and part of the internal
> >fat has rendered, and the flesh yields to the merest poke of a fork?
> >
> >Wrapped and rested, and then sliced across the grain, allowing for the
> >change of the grain as one passes from the flat to the point - it is
> >truly the King of Cuisine.
> >
> >And I've got a 15 lb'er in the pit at this moment.
> >
> >
> >
> What is it with you people who like to cook meat until it can be eaten
> with just a fork? Have you all got bad teeth or what? ;-)
>
> Personally I don't think you can beat rare roast rib eye beef, tender
> because it's been properly aged, and not buggerised around with mustard
> and spices and stuff that interfere with the flavour of the meat. But it
> only takes about an hour from go to whoa, depending on the size.
>
> Christine

Christine dear, Brisket is special.
It's a very tough cut of meat, and long, slow cooking is the only way to
fly.... altho' I HAVE been known to grind it from time to time. <G>

Don't knock it until you have tried it!

I eat Bottom Round cubed and raw as steak tartar and my favorite cut of
beef to cook is rib eye. It gets cooked for only a minute or two per
side in hot grapeseed oil, depending on how thick it is. I like it rare.

But I'll eat a long, slow cooked and marinated brisket anytime too! ;-d
--
Peace, Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

On 20-Feb-2006, Old Mother Ashby > wrote:

> Louis Cohen wrote:
>
> >There are several fine dishes that take 24 hr or more to prepare;
> >among them are things like Peking Duck, Veal Orloff, beef demi-glace,
> >and so on. But can any of these hold a candle to a whopping big beef
> >brisket, slathered in cheap yellow mustard and loving rubbed in salt,
> >pepper, spices, and herbs, smoked slowly over wood until that perfect
> >moment when the connective tissue has melted and part of the internal
> >fat has rendered, and the flesh yields to the merest poke of a fork?
> >
> >Wrapped and rested, and then sliced across the grain, allowing for the
> >change of the grain as one passes from the flat to the point - it is
> >truly the King of Cuisine.
> >
> >And I've got a 15 lb'er in the pit at this moment.
> >
> >
> >
> What is it with you people who like to cook meat until it can be eaten
> with just a fork? Have you all got bad teeth or what? ;-)
>
> Personally I don't think you can beat rare roast rib eye beef, tender
> because it's been properly aged, and not buggerised around with mustard
> and spices and stuff that interfere with the flavour of the meat. But it
> only takes about an hour from go to whoa, depending on the size.
>
> Christine

Nobody is trying to beat rare roast rib eye beef. Most of us like it just
as well as barbecue. However it costs a hell of a lot more then
briskett or pork shoulder and we like those pretty well too when
they are properly prepared. I can feed a lot more people with $10
worth of pork shoulder then I can with $10 worth of ribeye.

--
Brick(I'm paddling as fast as I can)

Anybody can take expensive tender meat and cook it fast.

It's more of a challenge to take cheap, tough, fatty meat and turn it
into something really nice. And, the tough cuts have more flavor -
that's why those tenderloin steaks are always served with sauces.

OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:

>In article
>,
> Old Mother Ashby > wrote:
>
>
>
>>Louis Cohen wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>There are several fine dishes that take 24 hr or more to prepare;
>>>among them are things like Peking Duck, Veal Orloff, beef demi-glace,
>>>and so on. But can any of these hold a candle to a whopping big beef
>>>brisket, slathered in cheap yellow mustard and loving rubbed in salt,
>>>pepper, spices, and herbs, smoked slowly over wood until that perfect
>>>moment when the connective tissue has melted and part of the internal
>>>fat has rendered, and the flesh yields to the merest poke of a fork?
>>>
>>>Wrapped and rested, and then sliced across the grain, allowing for the
>>>change of the grain as one passes from the flat to the point - it is
>>>truly the King of Cuisine.
>>>
>>>And I've got a 15 lb'er in the pit at this moment.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>What is it with you people who like to cook meat until it can be eaten
>>with just a fork? Have you all got bad teeth or what? ;-)
>>
>>Personally I don't think you can beat rare roast rib eye beef, tender
>>because it's been properly aged, and not buggerised around with mustard
>>and spices and stuff that interfere with the flavour of the meat. But it
>>only takes about an hour from go to whoa, depending on the size.
>>
>>Christine
>>
>>
>
>Christine dear, Brisket is special.
>It's a very tough cut of meat, and long, slow cooking is the only way to
>fly.... altho' I HAVE been known to grind it from time to time. <G>
>
>Don't knock it until you have tried it!
>
>
>
As a matter of fact, I have had brisket. When I was a teenager we knew a
family of expats from Texas. The father was an engineer with Bechtel,
out here building a natural gas pipeline. I can remember visiting and
having brisket cooked till it fell apart. We politely ate it of course,
but my mother thought it was a very strange way to cook meat and didn't
ask for the recipe!

I am not completely ignorant about southern barbecue, I've read Jeffrey
Steingarten's wonderfully entertaining piece in The Man Who Ate Everything.

I wasn't entirely serious about the bad teeth. In recent years I have
discovered braised ox cheek, which needs to be cooked for about four
hours and winds up meltingly tender, wth a very rich flavour.

>I eat Bottom Round cubed and raw as steak tartar and my favorite cut of
>beef to cook is rib eye. It gets cooked for only a minute or two per
>side in hot grapeseed oil, depending on how thick it is. I like it rare.
>
>But I'll eat a long, slow cooked and marinated brisket anytime too! ;-d
>
>
Are you talking about rib eye steaks? If you're doing a six point roast
you really do have to put it in the oven for a while after browning it,
or it would be completely raw in the middle.

Christine

"OmManiPadmeOmelet" > wrote in message
...
> In article .com>,
> "Louis Cohen" > wrote:
>
>>
>> Wrapped and rested, and then sliced across the grain, allowing for the
>> change of the grain as one passes from the flat to the point - it is
>> truly the King of Cuisine.
>>
>> And I've got a 15 lb'er in the pit at this moment.
>
> Hope you are making the appropriate side dishes to go with that? ;-)
> --
Hey its brisket all ya need is a loaf of wonder bread and a bottle of
squeeze parkay(or butter)

Buzz

"Louis Cohen" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Anybody can take expensive tender meat and cook it fast.
>
> It's more of a challenge to take cheap, tough, fatty meat and turn it
> into something really nice. And, the tough cuts have more flavor -
> that's why those tenderloin steaks are always served with sauces.
>

Well said!!

Buzz

"2fatbbq" > wrote in message
...
>
> "OmManiPadmeOmelet" > wrote in message
> ...
>> In article .com>,
>> "Louis Cohen" > wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Wrapped and rested, and then sliced across the grain, allowing for the
>>> change of the grain as one passes from the flat to the point - it is
>>> truly the King of Cuisine.
>>>
>>> And I've got a 15 lb'er in the pit at this moment.
>>
>> Hope you are making the appropriate side dishes to go with that? ;-)
>> --
> Hey its brisket all ya need is a loaf of wonder bread and a bottle of
> squeeze parkay(or butter)
>
> Buzz
>

BBQ brisket can be very good indeed. But the fact remains that it is just
BBQ. The flavor of the meat is masked by all the other flavorings, and by
tradition it is served with uninteresting - and usually low quality - side
dishes. Enjoy it? Sure. Think it's the king of cuisines? Give me a break.


--
Peter Aitken

On Mon, 20 Feb 2006 22:55:09 GMT, "Peter Aitken"
> wrote:

>BBQ brisket can be very good indeed. But the fact remains that it is just
>BBQ. The flavor of the meat is masked by all the other flavorings,

And those other flavorings would be what, exactly?

"Kevin S. Wilson" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 20 Feb 2006 22:55:09 GMT, "Peter Aitken"
> > wrote:
>
>>BBQ brisket can be very good indeed. But the fact remains that it is just
>>BBQ. The flavor of the meat is masked by all the other flavorings,
>
> And those other flavorings would be what, exactly?
>

Read the original post.


--
Peter Aitken

Peter Aitken wrote:

> ..... The flavor of the meat is masked by all the other
> flavorings, ...

Yeah, the flavor of the wood smoke is a real spoiler.

--
Dave
www.davebbq.com

In article
>,
Old Mother Ashby > wrote:

> OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
>
> >In article
> >,
> > Old Mother Ashby > wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >>Louis Cohen wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>There are several fine dishes that take 24 hr or more to prepare;
> >>>among them are things like Peking Duck, Veal Orloff, beef demi-glace,
> >>>and so on. But can any of these hold a candle to a whopping big beef
> >>>brisket, slathered in cheap yellow mustard and loving rubbed in salt,
> >>>pepper, spices, and herbs, smoked slowly over wood until that perfect
> >>>moment when the connective tissue has melted and part of the internal
> >>>fat has rendered, and the flesh yields to the merest poke of a fork?
> >>>
> >>>Wrapped and rested, and then sliced across the grain, allowing for the
> >>>change of the grain as one passes from the flat to the point - it is
> >>>truly the King of Cuisine.
> >>>
> >>>And I've got a 15 lb'er in the pit at this moment.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>What is it with you people who like to cook meat until it can be eaten
> >>with just a fork? Have you all got bad teeth or what? ;-)
> >>
> >>Personally I don't think you can beat rare roast rib eye beef, tender
> >>because it's been properly aged, and not buggerised around with mustard
> >>and spices and stuff that interfere with the flavour of the meat. But it
> >>only takes about an hour from go to whoa, depending on the size.
> >>
> >>Christine
> >>
> >>
> >
> >Christine dear, Brisket is special.
> >It's a very tough cut of meat, and long, slow cooking is the only way to
> >fly.... altho' I HAVE been known to grind it from time to time. <G>
> >
> >Don't knock it until you have tried it!
> >
> >
> >
> As a matter of fact, I have had brisket. When I was a teenager we knew a
> family of expats from Texas. The father was an engineer with Bechtel,
> out here building a natural gas pipeline. I can remember visiting and
> having brisket cooked till it fell apart. We politely ate it of course,
> but my mother thought it was a very strange way to cook meat and didn't
> ask for the recipe!
>
> I am not completely ignorant about southern barbecue, I've read Jeffrey
> Steingarten's wonderfully entertaining piece in The Man Who Ate Everything.
>
> I wasn't entirely serious about the bad teeth. In recent years I have
> discovered braised ox cheek, which needs to be cooked for about four
> hours and winds up meltingly tender, wth a very rich flavour.
>
> >I eat Bottom Round cubed and raw as steak tartar and my favorite cut of
> >beef to cook is rib eye. It gets cooked for only a minute or two per
> >side in hot grapeseed oil, depending on how thick it is. I like it rare.
> >
> >But I'll eat a long, slow cooked and marinated brisket anytime too! ;-d
> >
> >
> Are you talking about rib eye steaks? If you're doing a six point roast
> you really do have to put it in the oven for a while after browning it,
> or it would be completely raw in the middle.
>
> Christine

Yes, Rib Eye steaks...... ;-d

I've never done a roast. I need to someday.....
I only cook for two tho' and dad won't eat beef, so there is really no
point unless I'm cooking for guests, then I'd go ahead and do it right,
and use a meat thermometer.
--
Peace, Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

In article >,
"2fatbbq" > wrote:

> "OmManiPadmeOmelet" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article .com>,
> > "Louis Cohen" > wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Wrapped and rested, and then sliced across the grain, allowing for the
> >> change of the grain as one passes from the flat to the point - it is
> >> truly the King of Cuisine.
> >>
> >> And I've got a 15 lb'er in the pit at this moment.
> >
> > Hope you are making the appropriate side dishes to go with that? ;-)
> > --
> Hey its brisket all ya need is a loaf of wonder bread and a bottle of
> squeeze parkay(or butter)
>
> Buzz
>
>

Pickles, onion slices, salad....... ;-D

Oh, and iced tea!
--
Peace, Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

In article >,
"Peter Aitken" > wrote:

> "2fatbbq" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "OmManiPadmeOmelet" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> In article .com>,
> >> "Louis Cohen" > wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> Wrapped and rested, and then sliced across the grain, allowing for the
> >>> change of the grain as one passes from the flat to the point - it is
> >>> truly the King of Cuisine.
> >>>
> >>> And I've got a 15 lb'er in the pit at this moment.
> >>
> >> Hope you are making the appropriate side dishes to go with that? ;-)
> >> --
> > Hey its brisket all ya need is a loaf of wonder bread and a bottle of
> > squeeze parkay(or butter)
> >
> > Buzz
> >
>
> BBQ brisket can be very good indeed. But the fact remains that it is just
> BBQ. The flavor of the meat is masked by all the other flavorings, and by
> tradition it is served with uninteresting - and usually low quality - side
> dishes. Enjoy it? Sure. Think it's the king of cuisines? Give me a break.

<giggles> I'm glad somebody else said it...

I enjoy BBQ now and again, and a properly cooked brisket really is good,
but IMHO I'll take a nice half-raw seared rib eye any day, with some
fresh steamed KING crab legs on the side!

Surf and turf.

_That_ is the king of of cuisine!
--
Peace, Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

OmManiPadmeOmelet > wrote:
> "Peter Aitken" > wrote:
>[ . . . ]
> > BBQ brisket can be very good indeed. But the fact remains that it is
> > just BBQ. The flavor of the meat is masked by all the other flavorings,
> > and by tradition it is served with uninteresting - and usually low
> > quality - side dishes. Enjoy it? Sure. Think it's the king of cuisines?
> > Give me a break.
>
> <giggles> I'm glad somebody else said it...
>
> I enjoy BBQ now and again, and a properly cooked brisket really is good,
> but IMHO I'll take a nice half-raw seared rib eye any day, with some
> fresh steamed KING crab legs on the side!
>
> Surf and turf.
>
> _That_ is the king of of cuisine!

I, for one, would appreciate it if you would try to remember to not
crosspost.

--
Nick. Support severely wounded and disabled War on Terror Veterans and
their families:
http://saluteheroes.org/ & http://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/

Thank a Veteran and Support Our Troops. You are not forgotten. Thanks ! ! !

"Kevin S. Wilson" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 21 Feb 2006 00:02:05 GMT, "Peter Aitken"
> > wrote:
>
>>"Kevin S. Wilson" > wrote in message
. ..
>>> On Mon, 20 Feb 2006 22:55:09 GMT, "Peter Aitken"
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>>BBQ brisket can be very good indeed. But the fact remains that it is
>>>>just
>>>>BBQ. The flavor of the meat is masked by all the other flavorings,
>>>
>>> And those other flavorings would be what, exactly?
>>>
>>Read the original post.
>
> I did. I imagine that this is the part to which your post refers:
>
> "slathered in cheap yellow mustard and loving[ly] rubbed in salt,
> pepper, spices, and herbs,"
>
> So without knowing what spices and herbs might have been used, or in
> what amounts, you're confident in saying that the flavor of the meat
> will be masked by them. I see. Are we to assume that you cook without
> salt, pepper, spices, and herbs, so as to ensure that you don't mask
> the flavor of whatever meat you're preparing?
>
> Take care in answering. I have a feeling you're about to reveal that
> you haven't any first-hand knowledge of this type of BBQ brisket or
> its preparation.
>

Are you a professional twit or just a skilled amateur? I have made BBQ
brisket myself several times and as I stated I like it. You seem threatened
by my opinion and are incapable of responding intelligently. Too bad you are
so insecure (although probably with good reason).


--
Peter Aitken

"Dave Bugg" > wrote in message
...
> Peter Aitken wrote:
>
>> ..... The flavor of the meat is masked by all the other
>> flavorings, ...
>
> Yeah, the flavor of the wood smoke is a real spoiler.
>
> --
> Dave

I am sorry you feel that way. Properly used, wood smoke can be a great
flavor addition. In all too much BBQ, however, the "more is better" approach
is used so that the end result is a mish-mash of conflicting and
overpowering flavors from too much smoke, too much rub, and too much sauce,
and the taste of the meat is lost. You might as well BBQ a shoe.

--
Peter Aitken

> wrote in message
...
> OmManiPadmeOmelet > wrote:
> > "Peter Aitken" > wrote:
> >[ . . . ]
> > > BBQ brisket can be very good indeed. But the fact remains that it is
> > > just BBQ. The flavor of the meat is masked by all the other
flavorings,
> > > and by tradition it is served with uninteresting - and usually low
> > > quality - side dishes. Enjoy it? Sure. Think it's the king of
cuisines?
> > > Give me a break.
> >
> > <giggles> I'm glad somebody else said it...
> >
> > I enjoy BBQ now and again, and a properly cooked brisket really is good,
> > but IMHO I'll take a nice half-raw seared rib eye any day, with some
> > fresh steamed KING crab legs on the side!
> >
> > Surf and turf.
> >
> > _That_ is the king of of cuisine!
>
> I, for one, would appreciate it if you would try to remember to not
> crosspost.
>
Thanks, Nick...I just figgered out where this shit was coming from.
Jack (yes Kevin, I ended it with a preposition)

On 21 Feb 2006 05:55:23 GMT, wrote:

>I, for one, would appreciate it if you would try to remember to not
>crosspost.

She wasn't crossposting. She merely followed up to a crossposted
message.

My computet does it automatically. Probably hers does, too.

On Tue, 21 Feb 2006 13:33:06 GMT, "Peter Aitken"
> wrote:

>"Kevin S. Wilson" > wrote in message
.. .
>> On Tue, 21 Feb 2006 00:02:05 GMT, "Peter Aitken"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>"Kevin S. Wilson" > wrote in message
...
>>>> On Mon, 20 Feb 2006 22:55:09 GMT, "Peter Aitken"
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>BBQ brisket can be very good indeed. But the fact remains that it is
>>>>>just
>>>>>BBQ. The flavor of the meat is masked by all the other flavorings,
>>>>
>>>> And those other flavorings would be what, exactly?
>>>>
>>>Read the original post.
>>
>> I did. I imagine that this is the part to which your post refers:
>>
>> "slathered in cheap yellow mustard and loving[ly] rubbed in salt,
>> pepper, spices, and herbs,"
>>
>> So without knowing what spices and herbs might have been used, or in
>> what amounts, you're confident in saying that the flavor of the meat
>> will be masked by them. I see. Are we to assume that you cook without
>> salt, pepper, spices, and herbs, so as to ensure that you don't mask
>> the flavor of whatever meat you're preparing?
>>
>> Take care in answering. I have a feeling you're about to reveal that
>> you haven't any first-hand knowledge of this type of BBQ brisket or
>> its preparation.
>>
>
>Are you a professional twit or just a skilled amateur?

Ad hominem noted.

>I have made BBQ
>brisket myself several times and as I stated I like it.

Oh. Well, please do share your technique. I saw Bobby Flay do brisket
on "Boy Meets Grill" the other day, and he made it look very, very
complicated and difficult, though I'm sure it turned out great. Maybe
you have a better way.

>You seem threatened by my opinion

Threatened? <snicker> Son, this is Usenet, and you take your role in
it way too seriously.

>and are incapable of responding intelligently. Too bad you are
>so insecure (although probably with good reason).

Ad hominem noted. Do you plan to answer my question, or just fling
unoriginal, tepid insults about?

"Kevin S. Wilson" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 21 Feb 2006 13:33:06 GMT, "Peter Aitken"
> > wrote:
>
>>"Kevin S. Wilson" > wrote in message
. ..
>>> On Tue, 21 Feb 2006 00:02:05 GMT, "Peter Aitken"
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>>"Kevin S. Wilson" > wrote in message
m...
>>>>> On Mon, 20 Feb 2006 22:55:09 GMT, "Peter Aitken"
>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>BBQ brisket can be very good indeed. But the fact remains that it is
>>>>>>just
>>>>>>BBQ. The flavor of the meat is masked by all the other flavorings,
>>>>>
>>>>> And those other flavorings would be what, exactly?
>>>>>
>>>>Read the original post.
>>>
>>> I did. I imagine that this is the part to which your post refers:
>>>
>>> "slathered in cheap yellow mustard and loving[ly] rubbed in salt,
>>> pepper, spices, and herbs,"
>>>
>>> So without knowing what spices and herbs might have been used, or in
>>> what amounts, you're confident in saying that the flavor of the meat
>>> will be masked by them. I see. Are we to assume that you cook without
>>> salt, pepper, spices, and herbs, so as to ensure that you don't mask
>>> the flavor of whatever meat you're preparing?
>>>
>>> Take care in answering. I have a feeling you're about to reveal that
>>> you haven't any first-hand knowledge of this type of BBQ brisket or
>>> its preparation.
>>>
>>
>>Are you a professional twit or just a skilled amateur?
>
> Ad hominem noted.
>
>>I have made BBQ
>>brisket myself several times and as I stated I like it.
>
> Oh. Well, please do share your technique. I saw Bobby Flay do brisket
> on "Boy Meets Grill" the other day, and he made it look very, very
> complicated and difficult, though I'm sure it turned out great. Maybe
> you have a better way.
>
>>You seem threatened by my opinion
>
> Threatened? <snicker> Son, this is Usenet, and you take your role in
> it way too seriously.
>
>>and are incapable of responding intelligently. Too bad you are
>>so insecure (although probably with good reason).
>
> Ad hominem noted. Do you plan to answer my question, or just fling
> unoriginal, tepid insults about?
>

I answered your question. And they are not insults but observations (is
calling Danny DeVito short an insult? No.). The reason they are not original
is because I have dealt with many other unintelligent, uninformed, and
insecure people on the usenet. You are just the latest member of this
pitiful club. I am through wasting my time with you.


--
Peter Aitken

Peter Aitken wrote:

> "Dave Bugg" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Peter Aitken wrote:
> >
> > > ..... The flavor of the meat is masked by all the other
> > > flavorings, ...
> >
> > Yeah, the flavor of the wood smoke is a real spoiler.
> >
> > -- Dave
>
> I am sorry you feel that way. Properly used, wood smoke can be a
> great flavor addition. In all too much BBQ, however, the "more is
> better" approach is used so that the end result is a mish-mash of
> conflicting and overpowering flavors from too much smoke, too much
> rub, and too much sauce, and the taste of the meat is lost. You might
> as well BBQ a shoe.

Ha ha. Teaching Dave Bugg about BBQ!


Brian

--
If televison's a babysitter, the Internet is a drunk librarian who
won't shut up.
-- Dorothy Gambrell (http://catandgirl.com)

On Tue, 21 Feb 2006 17:00:23 GMT, "Peter Aitken"
> wrote:

>"Kevin S. Wilson" > wrote in message
.. .
>> On Tue, 21 Feb 2006 13:33:06 GMT, "Peter Aitken"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>"Kevin S. Wilson" > wrote in message
...
>>>> On Tue, 21 Feb 2006 00:02:05 GMT, "Peter Aitken"
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>"Kevin S. Wilson" > wrote in message
om...
>>>>>> On Mon, 20 Feb 2006 22:55:09 GMT, "Peter Aitken"
>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>BBQ brisket can be very good indeed. But the fact remains that it is
>>>>>>>just
>>>>>>>BBQ. The flavor of the meat is masked by all the other flavorings,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And those other flavorings would be what, exactly?
>>>>>>
>>>>>Read the original post.
>>>>
>>>> I did. I imagine that this is the part to which your post refers:
>>>>
>>>> "slathered in cheap yellow mustard and loving[ly] rubbed in salt,
>>>> pepper, spices, and herbs,"
>>>>
>>>> So without knowing what spices and herbs might have been used, or in
>>>> what amounts, you're confident in saying that the flavor of the meat
>>>> will be masked by them. I see. Are we to assume that you cook without
>>>> salt, pepper, spices, and herbs, so as to ensure that you don't mask
>>>> the flavor of whatever meat you're preparing?
>>>>
>>>> Take care in answering. I have a feeling you're about to reveal that
>>>> you haven't any first-hand knowledge of this type of BBQ brisket or
>>>> its preparation.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Are you a professional twit or just a skilled amateur?
>>
>> Ad hominem noted.
>>
>>>I have made BBQ
>>>brisket myself several times and as I stated I like it.
>>
>> Oh. Well, please do share your technique. I saw Bobby Flay do brisket
>> on "Boy Meets Grill" the other day, and he made it look very, very
>> complicated and difficult, though I'm sure it turned out great. Maybe
>> you have a better way.
>>
>>>You seem threatened by my opinion
>>
>> Threatened? <snicker> Son, this is Usenet, and you take your role in
>> it way too seriously.
>>
>>>and are incapable of responding intelligently. Too bad you are
>>>so insecure (although probably with good reason).
>>
>> Ad hominem noted. Do you plan to answer my question, or just fling
>> unoriginal, tepid insults about?
>>
>
>I answered your question.

You did? Where? It was a simple question, requiring only a Yes or No
answer, neither of which is present in your bleatings so far. Here's
the question again:

"Are we to assume that you cook without salt, pepper, spices, and
herbs, so as to ensure that you don't mask the flavor of whatever meat
you're preparing?"

>And they are not insults but observations (is
>calling Danny DeVito short an insult? No.). The reason they are not original
>is because I have dealt with many other unintelligent, uninformed, and
>insecure people on the usenet.

The members of the "Peter Aitken Fan Club" are irrelevant here, though
I can see why such people might be drawn to you.

>You are just the latest member of this
>pitiful club. I am through wasting my time with you.

Wanna bet?

"Kevin S. Wilson" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 21 Feb 2006 17:00:23 GMT, "Peter Aitken"
> > wrote:
>
> >"Kevin S. Wilson" > wrote in message
> .. .
> >> On Tue, 21 Feb 2006 13:33:06 GMT, "Peter Aitken"
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >>>"Kevin S. Wilson" > wrote in message
> ...
> >>>> On Tue, 21 Feb 2006 00:02:05 GMT, "Peter Aitken"
> >>>> > wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>"Kevin S. Wilson" > wrote in message
> om...
> >>>>>> On Mon, 20 Feb 2006 22:55:09 GMT, "Peter Aitken"
> >>>>>> > wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>BBQ brisket can be very good indeed. But the fact remains that it
is
> >>>>>>>just
> >>>>>>>BBQ. The flavor of the meat is masked by all the other flavorings,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> And those other flavorings would be what, exactly?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>Read the original post.
> >>>>
> >>>> I did. I imagine that this is the part to which your post refers:
> >>>>
> >>>> "slathered in cheap yellow mustard and loving[ly] rubbed in salt,
> >>>> pepper, spices, and herbs,"
> >>>>
> >>>> So without knowing what spices and herbs might have been used, or in
> >>>> what amounts, you're confident in saying that the flavor of the meat
> >>>> will be masked by them. I see. Are we to assume that you cook without
> >>>> salt, pepper, spices, and herbs, so as to ensure that you don't mask
> >>>> the flavor of whatever meat you're preparing?
> >>>>
> >>>> Take care in answering. I have a feeling you're about to reveal that
> >>>> you haven't any first-hand knowledge of this type of BBQ brisket or
> >>>> its preparation.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>Are you a professional twit or just a skilled amateur?
> >>
> >> Ad hominem noted.
> >>
> >>>I have made BBQ
> >>>brisket myself several times and as I stated I like it.
> >>
> >> Oh. Well, please do share your technique. I saw Bobby Flay do brisket
> >> on "Boy Meets Grill" the other day, and he made it look very, very
> >> complicated and difficult, though I'm sure it turned out great. Maybe
> >> you have a better way.
> >>
> >>>You seem threatened by my opinion
> >>
> >> Threatened? <snicker> Son, this is Usenet, and you take your role in
> >> it way too seriously.
> >>
> >>>and are incapable of responding intelligently. Too bad you are
> >>>so insecure (although probably with good reason).
> >>
> >> Ad hominem noted. Do you plan to answer my question, or just fling
> >> unoriginal, tepid insults about?
> >>
> >
> >I answered your question.
>
> You did? Where? It was a simple question, requiring only a Yes or No
> answer, neither of which is present in your bleatings so far. Here's
> the question again:
>
> "Are we to assume that you cook without salt, pepper, spices, and
> herbs, so as to ensure that you don't mask the flavor of whatever meat
> you're preparing?"
>
> >And they are not insults but observations (is
> >calling Danny DeVito short an insult? No.). The reason they are not
original
> >is because I have dealt with many other unintelligent, uninformed, and
> >insecure people on the usenet.
>
> The members of the "Peter Aitken Fan Club" are irrelevant here, though
> I can see why such people might be drawn to you.
>
> >You are just the latest member of this
> >pitiful club. I am through wasting my time with you.
>
> Wanna bet?
>

Got to admit that Peter Aitken was a pretty ****-poor punchbag, laying down
his gloves midway through the 1st round of sparring.

Coward, with no stomach for a debate, far less a battle.

Probably has a few bottles of liquid smoke stashed away, just in case of
emergencies.

****-off back to the cooking group with your day-to-day cronies, Aitken. You
obviously know little, if anything, about BBQ.

I said that in a friendly voice.

Graeme

Kevin S. Wilson wrote:
> On Tue, 21 Feb 2006 00:02:05 GMT, "Peter Aitken"
> > wrote:
>
>
>>"Kevin S. Wilson" > wrote in message
. ..
>>
>>>On Mon, 20 Feb 2006 22:55:09 GMT, "Peter Aitken"
> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>BBQ brisket can be very good indeed. But the fact remains that it is just
>>>>BBQ. The flavor of the meat is masked by all the other flavorings,
>>>
>>>And those other flavorings would be what, exactly?
>>>
>>
>>Read the original post.
>
>
> I did. I imagine that this is the part to which your post refers:
>
> "slathered in cheap yellow mustard and loving[ly] rubbed in salt,
> pepper, spices, and herbs,"
>
> So without knowing what spices and herbs might have been used, or in
> what amounts, you're confident in saying that the flavor of the meat
> will be masked by them. I see. Are we to assume that you cook without
> salt, pepper, spices, and herbs, so as to ensure that you don't mask
> the flavor of whatever meat you're preparing?
>
> Take care in answering. I have a feeling you're about to reveal that
> you haven't any first-hand knowledge of this type of BBQ brisket or
> its preparation.
>

Kevin, that's a good answer.


--
TFM®

Louis Cohen wrote:
> Anybody can take expensive tender meat and cook it fast.
>
> It's more of a challenge to take cheap, tough, fatty meat and turn it
> into something really nice. And, the tough cuts have more flavor -
> that's why those tenderloin steaks are always served with sauces.
>

Way back when we had slaves in America, we'd toss them all the cuts we
didn't want.

Since it was all they had, they learned how to cook it properly.

Thank the slaves for all the BBQ and soul food. I do love it all dearly.

(It's cheap still today too.)



--
TFM®

TFM® wrote:

> Louis Cohen wrote:
> > Anybody can take expensive tender meat and cook it fast.
> >
> > It's more of a challenge to take cheap, tough, fatty meat and turn
> it
> > into something really nice. And, the tough cuts have more flavor -
> > that's why those tenderloin steaks are always served with sauces.
> >
>
> Way back when we had slaves in America, we'd toss them all the cuts we
>
> didn't want.
>
> Since it was all they had, they learned how to cook it properly.
>
> Thank the slaves for all the BBQ and soul food. I do love it all
> dearly.
>
> (It's cheap still today too.)
>
> --
> TFM®

Not just american slaves but all sorts of 'primitive' people, serfs,
peasants, oppressed peoples of all sorts, times, areas have had to learn
to make do with what was available to them.

There were times in Europe where forests teeming with animals were
forbidden the peasant to hunt in, and 'poaching' was punishable by
death. They could not even gather wood for fuel in these aristocratic,
feudal preserves.

In most older cultures this 'peasant' food is still in existence just
'tarted up' into the local equivalent of "Haute Cuisine". Mexico is
probly the most famous for this in the modern west.
---
JL

Peter Aitken wrote:

> I am sorry you feel that way.

Obviously, sarcasm is unknown in your part of the world.

> Properly used, wood smoke can be a great
> flavor addition. In all too much BBQ, however, the "more is better"
> approach is used so that the end result is a mish-mash of conflicting
> and overpowering flavors from too much smoke, too much rub, and too
> much sauce, and the taste of the meat is lost. You might as well BBQ
> a shoe.

Well, the above statement perhaps demonstrates the limited number of 'Q
joints that you have eaten at. At 80% of the hundreds of 'Q joints which
I've eaten at, there isn't a hint of the objections you have mentioned. I've
had more issue with dried out or fatty pieces of brisket than I have with a
mish-mash of overpowering flavors.

--
Dave
www.davebbq.com

Some of the most famous French dishes began as ways for folks of
limited means to use every bit of the beast - tete de veau, marrow
bones, all the braises, etc.

"Jack Sloan" > wrote:
> > wrote in message
> > OmManiPadmeOmelet > wrote:
> > > [ . . . ]
> > > _That_ is the king of of cuisine!
> >
> > I, for one, would appreciate it if you would try to remember to not
> > crosspost.
> >
> Thanks, Nick...I just figgered out where this shit was coming from.
> Jack (yes Kevin, I ended it with a preposition)

I sometimes forget to check for xposts, too. Om is one of the good folks,
thus my gentle reminder.

With regard to your mentioning the 'K' word, I, for one, would appreciate
it if you would try to remember to not. ;-D

--
Nick. Support severely wounded and disabled War on Terror Veterans and
their families:
http://saluteheroes.org/ & http://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/

Thank a Veteran and Support Our Troops. You are not forgotten. Thanks ! ! !

> wrote in message
...
> "Jack Sloan" > wrote:
> > > wrote in message
> > > OmManiPadmeOmelet > wrote:
> > > > [ . . . ]
> > > > _That_ is the king of of cuisine!
> > >
> > > I, for one, would appreciate it if you would try to remember to not
> > > crosspost.
> > >
> > Thanks, Nick...I just figgered out where this shit was coming from.
> > Jack (yes Kevin, I ended it with a preposition)
>
> I sometimes forget to check for xposts, too. Om is one of the good folks,
> thus my gentle reminder.
>
> With regard to your mentioning the 'K' word, I, for one, would appreciate
> it if you would try to remember to not. ;-D

Yes, it I got.
Jack

I love seafood, and BBQ too, and even an occasional roast or steak, but
I've never cared for them together. Give me a seafood paella or gumbo,
or a chicken and sausage version, but don't mix them up. And if I'm
eating meat, make the starters veggie, please.

The notion of a steak & lobster surf & turf seems more inspired by
combining the two most expensive menu items, than by having a pleasing
meal.

But that's just my preference.

Louis Cohen wrote:

> I love seafood, and BBQ too, and even an occasional roast or steak,
> but I've never cared for them together. Give me a seafood paella or
> gumbo, or a chicken and sausage version, but don't mix them up.

Don't forget the jambalya, Louis :-)

--
Dave
www.davebbq.com

On Wed 22 Feb 2006 08:37:56p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Louis Cohen?

> I love seafood, and BBQ too, and even an occasional roast or steak, but
> I've never cared for them together. Give me a seafood paella or gumbo,
> or a chicken and sausage version, but don't mix them up. And if I'm
> eating meat, make the starters veggie, please.
>
> The notion of a steak & lobster surf & turf seems more inspired by
> combining the two most expensive menu items, than by having a pleasing
> meal.
>
> But that's just my preference.

And my preference, as well, although I don't mind having a seafood cocktail
before having a steak. Just not seafood and meat together.

--
Wayne Boatwright o¿o
____________________

BIOYA

"Wayne Boatwright" <wayneboatwright_at_gmail.com> wrote in message
28.19...
> On Wed 22 Feb 2006 08:37:56p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Louis
> Cohen?
>
>> I love seafood, and BBQ too, and even an occasional roast or steak, but
>> I've never cared for them together. Give me a seafood paella or gumbo,
>> or a chicken and sausage version, but don't mix them up. And if I'm
>> eating meat, make the starters veggie, please.
>>
>> The notion of a steak & lobster surf & turf seems more inspired by
>> combining the two most expensive menu items, than by having a pleasing
>> meal.
>>
>> But that's just my preference.
>
> And my preference, as well, although I don't mind having a seafood
> cocktail
> before having a steak. Just not seafood and meat together.
>
It's true. I can think of very few dishes where the two go together well.
There's a Filipino dish, name forgotten, in which large shrimp are covered
with ag round pork paste then fried. Seems there must be some others. But I
think the "surf and turf" thing got started not because the items go
together but because steak and lobster are both considered luxury items, so
having them both is twice as fancy. NOT!


--
Peter Aitken

Peter Aitken wrote:

>
> It's true. I can think of very few dishes where the two go together well.
> There's a Filipino dish, name forgotten, in which large shrimp are covered
> with ag round pork paste then fried. Seems there must be some others. But I
> think the "surf and turf" thing got started not because the items go
> together but because steak and lobster are both considered luxury items, so
> having them both is twice as fancy. NOT!
>
>

I like the flavor of shrimp and pork together. It's kind of ironic,
actually, as I grew up in a household that kept kosher

--

saerah

http://anisaerah.blogspot.com/

email:
anisaerah at s b c global.net

"Peace is not an absence of war, it is a virtue, a state of mind, a
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