Hi,

These were on sale today at my grocery sto

http://www.cooksham.com/pages/produc...k_shoulder.jsp

They're not sliced. Can I somehow cook these in a smoker, or do I have to
roast them like I normally do?

--
//ceed ©¿©¬

ceed wrote:

> Hi,
>
> These were on sale today at my grocery sto
>
> http://www.cooksham.com/pages/produc...k_shoulder.jsp
>
> They're not sliced. Can I somehow cook these in a smoker, or do I have
> to roast them like I normally do?
>

Sure. "Double smoked" ham (or in this case shoulder) can be quite good,
depending on the product. Of course if you start out with poor quality
meat smoking it won't turn it into good quality meat.

Taste a piece and see if you think more smoke would do it some good.
If so, smoke away.

--
Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com

ceed wrote:

> Hi,
>
> These were on sale today at my grocery sto
>
> http://www.cooksham.com/pages/produc...k_shoulder.jsp
>
> They're not sliced. Can I somehow cook these in a smoker, or do I
> have to roast them like I normally do?


Is it a fresh picnic? That's usually what's sold in the stores, but it
makes a big difference.




Brian

"Default User" > wrote in message
>> http://www.cooksham.com/pages/produc...k_shoulder.jsp
>>
>> They're not sliced. Can I somehow cook these in a smoker, or do I
>> have to roast them like I normally do?
>
>
> Is it a fresh picnic? That's usually what's sold in the stores, but it
> makes a big difference.

Looks to me as if it has been cured like a ham. Sure you can cook it in the
smoker, but it is not going to make barbecue, just a heavier smoked ham.

On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 19:13:31 -0500, Edwin Pawlowski > wrote:

> Looks to me as if it has been cured like a ham. Sure you can cook it in
> the
> smoker, but it is not going to make barbecue, just a heavier smoked ham.

Yes, it's cured. But these do not have much of a smoke "bite", so I will
try to add a little of myself.



--
//ceed ©¿©¬

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

>
> "Default User" > wrote in message
> >> http://www.cooksham.com/pages/produc...k_shoulder.jsp
> > >
> >> They're not sliced. Can I somehow cook these in a smoker, or do I
> >> have to roast them like I normally do?
> >
> >
> > Is it a fresh picnic? That's usually what's sold in the stores, but
> > it makes a big difference.
>
> Looks to me as if it has been cured like a ham. Sure you can cook it
> in the smoker, but it is not going to make barbecue, just a heavier
> smoked ham.


I know the picture he showed looked that way, but I'm not sure if
that's the actual product he bought or something he found googling for
"pork shoulder picnic ham". I just want to clarify before we give him a
lot of advice.

It's possible that he has a smoked and cured product. If so then it's a
different process than fresh picnic. Which reminds me, I have a fresh
picnic in the freezer that needs to get thawed for a date with the WSM.




Brian

On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 19:25:44 -0500, Default User >
wrote:

> I know the picture he showed looked that way, but I'm not sure if
> that's the actual product he bought or something he found googling for
> "pork shoulder picnic ham". I just want to clarify before we give him a
> lot of advice.

Sorry for not being clear on this: The link is actually for the kind of
product I did purcase. It's even the same brand. I found the link on the
ham label itself.

--
//ceed ©¿©¬

Default User wrote:

> I know the picture he showed looked that way, but I'm not sure if
> that's the actual product he bought or something he found googling for
> "pork shoulder picnic ham".

Good point. It sure looks as if it's cured, and it mentions "smoked
picnics", so I assumed it's a cured, smoked picnic. It may well be
neither.

--
Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com

ceed wrote:

> On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 19:25:44 -0500, Default User
> > wrote:
>
> > I know the picture he showed looked that way, but I'm not sure if
> > that's the actual product he bought or something he found googling
> > for "pork shoulder picnic ham". I just want to clarify before we
> > give him a lot of advice.
>
> Sorry for not being clear on this: The link is actually for the kind
> of product I did purcase. It's even the same brand. I found the link
> on the ham label itself.

Ok, no problem. The main thing with this is that you really don't need
to cook it much more than it takes to heat it through and get the
amount of smoke flavor you want added (based on your other reply).


I'd look at about an hour or so, hickory or maple for smoke wood. That
should liven up any ham-type product substantially.




Brian

Smoke-heat at a very low temp. Heat only to a internal temp. of 112F at
most. Remember it's already cooked.

"ceed"
<ceed@abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyzabcdefghijklmnopqr stuvwxyzabcdefghijk.com>
wrote in message newsp.suwls1v021xk10@bobdello...
> Hi,
>
> These were on sale today at my grocery sto
>
> http://www.cooksham.com/pages/produc...k_shoulder.jsp
>
> They're not sliced. Can I somehow cook these in a smoker, or do I have to
> roast them like I normally do?
>
> --
> //ceed ©¿©¬

"Kent" > wrote in message
...
> Smoke-heat at a very low temp. Heat only to a internal temp. of 112F at
> most. Remember it's already cooked.
>

What happens at 113 degrees?

Kent wrote:

> Smoke-heat at a very low temp. Heat only to a internal temp. of 112F at
> most. Remember it's already cooked.

That's a pretty conservative number there, Kent. Not that I'm saying
you're wrong (There's no "wrong" when it comes to taste. No such thing),
but I heat precooked ham to somewhere around 135-140 F and it comes out
great, at least to the folks eating at my table.

--
Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com

On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 20:32:01 -0500, Reg > wrote:

> Smoke-heat at a very low temp. Heat only to a internal temp. of 112F
> at most. Remember it's already cooked.

> That's a pretty conservative number there, Kent. Not that I'm saying
> you're wrong (There's no "wrong" when it comes to taste. No such thing),
> but I heat precooked ham to somewhere around 135-140 F and it comes out
> great, at least to the folks eating at my table.

Looks the trick is not to cook it dry which doesn't seem to happen until
after passing 140.. Since I purchased a few of these I can experiment a
little I guess?

--
//ceed ©¿©¬

You eat it. Then it's at a temperature warm enough to eat. All you're doing
is heating an already cooked product to the point where you eat it.

"Edwin Pawlowski" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> "Kent" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Smoke-heat at a very low temp. Heat only to a internal temp. of 112F at
>> most. Remember it's already cooked.
>>
>
> What happens at 113 degrees?
>

You're overdoing what is necessary. At some point you are going to dry it
out.
Look at Julia Child's "The Way to Cook" and all the other books she wrote.

"Reg" > wrote in message
.. .
> Kent wrote:
>
>> Smoke-heat at a very low temp. Heat only to a internal temp. of 112F at
>> most. Remember it's already cooked.
>
> That's a pretty conservative number there, Kent. Not that I'm saying
> you're wrong (There's no "wrong" when it comes to taste. No such thing),
> but I heat precooked ham to somewhere around 135-140 F and it comes out
> great, at least to the folks eating at my table.
>
> --
> Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com
>

Ceed, I don't expect you to believe I am the font of culinary knowledge. Go
to any of Julia Child's books and read about what to do with a precooked
ham. She says to warm it up. This is what I do.
If you warm it up in a grill with a bit of wood at a low temp. it will taste
better than it would otherwise. If you heat it up too much you aren't
accomplishing anything, and you will dry it out.
Cheers,
Kent

"ceed"
<ceed@abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyzabcdefghijklmnopqr stuvwxyzabcdefghijk.com>
wrote in message newsp.suwsjzlt21xk10@bobdello...
> On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 20:32:01 -0500, Reg > wrote:
>
>> Smoke-heat at a very low temp. Heat only to a internal temp. of 112F
>> at most. Remember it's already cooked.
>
>> That's a pretty conservative number there, Kent. Not that I'm saying
>> you're wrong (There's no "wrong" when it comes to taste. No such thing),
>> but I heat precooked ham to somewhere around 135-140 F and it comes out
>> great, at least to the folks eating at my table.
>
> Looks the trick is not to cook it dry which doesn't seem to happen until
> after passing 140.. Since I purchased a few of these I can experiment a
> little I guess?
>
> --
> //ceed ©¿©¬

On Wed, 03 Aug 2005 01:29:24 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" >
wrote:

>
>"Kent" > wrote in message
...
>> Smoke-heat at a very low temp. Heat only to a internal temp. of 112F at
>> most. Remember it's already cooked.
>>
>
>What happens at 113 degrees?

You learn what Alfred Nobel discovered.

--
-denny-

"I don't like it when a whole state starts
acting like a marital aid."
"John R. Campbell" in a Usenet post.

Kent wrote:

> You're overdoing what is necessary. At some point you are going to dry it
> out.
> Look at Julia Child's "The Way to Cook" and all the other books she wrote.

It's a matter of taste. Hey I'm a big fan of books, but when it
comes to food nothing I read would ever trump my five senses. I
think even Julia would agree with that. I seem to remember her
saying something like that once, half-drunk, slopping a soufflé
together.

112 F is barely above body temperature and would be unappealing
to me. Also, ham and other cured pork products don't dry out at
140 F, especially those I've cured myself, which is most of what
I eat. Maybe you need to try other brands.

--
Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com

Default User wrote:
> ceed wrote:
>
>
>>On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 19:25:44 -0500, Default User
> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I know the picture he showed looked that way, but I'm not sure if
>>>that's the actual product he bought or something he found googling
>>>for "pork shoulder picnic ham". I just want to clarify before we
>>>give him a lot of advice.
>>
>>Sorry for not being clear on this: The link is actually for the kind
>>of product I did purcase. It's even the same brand. I found the link
>>on the ham label itself.
>
>
> Ok, no problem. The main thing with this is that you really don't need
> to cook it much more than it takes to heat it through and get the
> amount of smoke flavor you want added (based on your other reply).
>
>
> I'd look at about an hour or so, hickory or maple for smoke wood. That
> should liven up any ham-type product substantially.

This might not be very good advice. Being cured isn't the same as being
cooked. If it doesn't say "ready to eat" or "pre-cooked" or something
similar it is probably raw. If raw is should probably be cooked to an
internal temperature of 140-160 (depending on preference). If pre-cooked
just heat it to a good serving temperature (~120 should do)

--
Matthew

I'm a contractor. If you want an opinion, I'll sell you one.
Which one do you want?

Kent wrote:
> Smoke-heat at a very low temp. Heat only to a internal temp. of 112F at
> most.

Three significant digits? How droll.

> Remember it's already cooked.
>

Where did you get that information. I didn't see it in the original post
or on the website. IME smoked picnics are rarely sold pre-cooked.

--
Matthew

I'm a contractor. If you want an opinion, I'll sell you one.
Which one do you want?

Matthew L. Martin wrote:

> Default User wrote:

> > I'd look at about an hour or so, hickory or maple for smoke wood.
> > That should liven up any ham-type product substantially.
>
> This might not be very good advice. Being cured isn't the same as
> being cooked. If it doesn't say "ready to eat" or "pre-cooked" or
> something similar it is probably raw. If raw is should probably be
> cooked to an internal temperature of 140-160 (depending on
> preference). If pre-cooked just heat it to a good serving temperature
> (~120 should do)

Yes, to be safe one should check that. When I looked at the web site,
it stated that the product was available in whole, half, or pre-sliced.
Usually only fully-cooked products are offered as sliced.




Brian

I just said that Julia Child only warmed precooked ham to 112F.
That's incorrect. She warms it to 130F. The important point here is
that the ham is already cooked, and you don't have to cook it. You're just
heating it up. You can, if you wish, eat it at refrigerator temp. I like
mine barely
warmed.
Sorry for creating an unnecessary thread.
Kent

"Kent" > wrote in message
...
> Smoke-heat at a very low temp. Heat only to a internal temp. of 112F at
> most. Remember it's already cooked.
>
> "ceed"
> <ceed@abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyzabcdefghijklmnopqr stuvwxyzabcdefghijk.com>
> wrote in message newsp.suwls1v021xk10@bobdello...
>> Hi,
>>
>> These were on sale today at my grocery sto
>>
>> http://www.cooksham.com/pages/produc...k_shoulder.jsp
>>
>> They're not sliced. Can I somehow cook these in a smoker, or do I have to
>> roast them like I normally do?
>>
>> --
>> //ceed ©¿©¬
>
>

"Kent" > wrote in message
...
>I just said that Julia Child only warmed precooked ham to 112F.
> That's incorrect. She warms it to 130F. The important point here is
> that the ham is already cooked, and you don't have to cook it. You're just
> heating it up. You can, if you wish, eat it at refrigerator temp. I like
> mine barely
> warmed.
> Sorry for creating an unnecessary thread.
> Kent


I has some that was only 128 degrees and was pretty good though

OTOH, you mentioned Julia's "The Way To Cook" book. It is a very good read
and gives some basic information on why thing turn out the way they do and
serves as a base for many more recipes. Well worth the money, IMO, just to
boil eggs the right way.
--
Ed
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome/.

Kent wrote:
> I just said that Julia Child only warmed precooked ham to 112F.
> That's incorrect. She warms it to 130F. The important point here is
> that the ham is already cooked, and you don't have to cook it. You're just
> heating it up. You can, if you wish, eat it at refrigerator temp. I like
> mine barely
> warmed.
> Sorry for creating an unnecessary thread.
> Kent

Or, the OP could follow the manufacturer's instructions:

<http://www.cooksham.com/pages/kitchen/cooking/pork_shoulder.jsp>

They strongly imply that the picnic is raw and requires cooking.

The only product that Cook;s have cooking instructions for that imply
that the product is pre-cooked is the spiral cut ham:

<http://www.cooksham.com/pages/kitchen/cooking/spiral_sliced.jsp>

As always, read what Kent says, then ignore it. This could save your
life. If you still need an answer to your question contact someone who
knows the answer. Kent is not your guy.

--
Matthew

I'm a contractor. If you want an opinion, I'll sell you one.
Which one do you want?

Matthew L. Martin wrote:


> Or, the OP could follow the manufacturer's instructions:
>
> <http://www.cooksham.com/pages/kitchen/cooking/pork_shoulder.jsp>
>
> They strongly imply that the picnic is raw and requires cooking.

I'm afraid I don't see the implication. Nowhere does it give any
indication that safety requires the temperature they specify.

> The only product that Cook;s have cooking instructions for that imply
> that the product is pre-cooked is the spiral cut ham:

Well, you may be getting that impression, but I know it to be untrue.
I've purchased Cook's half hams in the past, they are fully-cooked
products.



Brian

Default User wrote:

> Well, you may be getting that impression, but I know it to be untrue.
> I've purchased Cook's half hams in the past, they are fully-cooked
> products.

Since their website is about as clear as an ink blot, and
since I'm the curious type, I talked to a CS rep at ConAgra.
All of their pork shoulder picnic products are cured, smoked,
and fully cooked. You had it right, the fact that it's available
pre-sliced is the give away. No fresh pork product is sold
pre-sliced and vac packed like that.

They do recommend cooking all their precooked pork products
to (choke) 160 F for safety reasons, however. I blame the
lawyers for that one.

The whole thing is a test case in how not to do a website.
Full of sales bluster and fancy graphics with very little
solid information.

--
Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com

On Wed, 03 Aug 2005 17:05:16 -0500, Matthew L. Martin
> wrote:

> Or, the OP could follow the manufacturer's instructions:
> <http://www.cooksham.com/pages/kitchen/cooking/pork_shoulder.jsp>
> They strongly imply that the picnic is raw and requires cooking.
> The only product that Cook;s have cooking instructions for that imply
> that the product is pre-cooked is the spiral cut ham:
>
It's cured, not cooked. So I guess I need to get the temperature a little
higher. I also checked Cooks cooking instructions which says:

Remove all wrappings. Put in pan, cover, and heat at 325°F for 15-20
minutes per pound, or until product center reaches 160°F.

That could mean hours in the smoker at 250. I it wouldn't harm?

--
//ceed ©¿©¬

"Matthew L. Martin" > wrote in message
>
> As always, read what Kent says, then ignore it. This could save your life.
> If you still need an answer to your question contact someone who knows the
> answer. Kent is not your guy.
>
> --
> Matthew

Why? 130 if fine. I often cook pork to a mere 140. The suggested
temperatures were developed many years ago for garbage fed free range pork.
Lawyers insist they not be changed. The factory made stuff is free of
trichinosis and can be eaten a little pink.

For years we could not get Parma hams because they are not cooked. Finally,
the USDA came to their senses and allows them to be imported now.
--
Ed
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome/

On 3-Aug-2005, "Matthew L. Martin" > wrote:

> Kent wrote:
> > I just said that Julia Child only warmed precooked ham to 112F.
> > That's incorrect. She warms it to 130F. The important point here is
> > that the ham is already cooked, and you don't have to cook it. You're just
> > heating it up. You can, if you wish, eat it at refrigerator temp. I like
> > mine barely
> > warmed.
> > Sorry for creating an unnecessary thread.
> > Kent
>
> Or, the OP could follow the manufacturer's instructions:
>
> <http://www.cooksham.com/pages/kitchen/cooking/pork_shoulder.jsp>
>
> They strongly imply that the picnic is raw and requires cooking.
>
> The only product that Cook;s have cooking instructions for that imply
> that the product is pre-cooked is the spiral cut ham:
>
> <http://www.cooksham.com/pages/kitchen/cooking/spiral_sliced.jsp>
>
> As always, read what Kent says, then ignore it. This could save your
> life. If you still need an answer to your question contact someone who
> knows the answer. Kent is not your guy.
>
> --
> Matthew
>
> I'm a contractor. If you want an opinion, I'll sell you one.
> Which one do you want?

I hate it when somebody hides behind documented references. I'd rather
have un provable bullshit any day. Makes me feel more at home with our
current crop of politicians.

--
The Brick said that (Don't bother to agree with me, I have already changed my mind.)

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

ceed wrote:

> It's cured, not cooked.

The jury's in. You're a complete doofus.

(It's fully cooked)

> That could mean hours in the smoker at 250. I it wouldn't harm?

No, you it wouldn't harm.

--
Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com

On Thu, 04 Aug 2005 00:07:47 -0500, Reg > wrote:

> ceed wrote:
>
>> It's cured, not cooked.
>
> The jury's in. You're a complete doofus.

I am a doofus? I ask because I need advice, and another rude poster comes
to the rescue. *PLONK*. I've really been needing my killfile a lot in here
lately,

I can read "cured" on the ham. Doesn't say it's cooked. There's a large
sales sticker on it I can't get off. Maybe some information under it?

--
//ceed ©¿©¬

ceed wrote:

> I can read "cured" on the ham. Doesn't say it's cooked. There's a
> large sales sticker on it I can't get off. Maybe some information under
> it?


I'm not so sure you can actually read anything.

<http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.food.barbecue/msg/bbeb2473d241a283?hl=en>

--
Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com

On Thu, 04 Aug 2005 04:24:17 -0500, Reg > wrote:

> I'm not so sure you can actually read anything.
>
> <http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.food.barbecue/msg/bbeb2473d241a283?hl=en>

If you look at the postings in this thread it's quite a spread in opinions
and advice. You may think, or even be, more credible and knowledgeable
than others who have posted, but how am I to know that? My posting about
the ham being cured and not cooked was posted about the same time you
posted your reply which seems to show it is cooked, so it was not like I
was not taking you wonderful insight into account. I appreciate your
effort trying to make your point, but the way you address me I do not like
at all. That's why I will killfile you. Anyway, thank you for your help up
to now. At least I now know the ham is cooked!

--
//ceed ©¿©¬

So is everyone in this group finally taking all their toys and going home?


"ceed"
<ceed@abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyzabcdefghijklmnopqr stuvwxyzabcdefghijk.com>
wrote in message newsp.suy9ldbw21xk10@bobdello...
> On Thu, 04 Aug 2005 04:24:17 -0500, Reg > wrote:
>
>> I'm not so sure you can actually read anything.
>>
>> <http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.food.barbecue/msg/bbeb2473d241a283?hl=en>
>
> If you look at the postings in this thread it's quite a spread in opinions
> and advice. You may think, or even be, more credible and knowledgeable
> than others who have posted, but how am I to know that? My posting about
> the ham being cured and not cooked was posted about the same time you
> posted your reply which seems to show it is cooked, so it was not like I
> was not taking you wonderful insight into account. I appreciate your
> effort trying to make your point, but the way you address me I do not like
> at all. That's why I will killfile you. Anyway, thank you for your help up
> to now. At least I now know the ham is cooked!
>
> --
> //ceed ©¿©¬

On Thu, 04 Aug 2005 10:26:38 -0500, CS > wrote:

> So is everyone in this group finally taking all their toys and going
> home?

I'm already home with all my toys around me smokin' ham..
>
>
> "ceed"
> <ceed@abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyzabcdefghijklmnopqr stuvwxyzabcdefghijk.com>
> wrote in message newsp.suy9ldbw21xk10@bobdello...
>> On Thu, 04 Aug 2005 04:24:17 -0500, Reg > wrote:
>>
>>> I'm not so sure you can actually read anything.
>>>
>>> <http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.food.barbecue/msg/bbeb2473d241a283?hl=en>
>>
>> If you look at the postings in this thread it's quite a spread in
>> opinions
>> and advice. You may think, or even be, more credible and knowledgeable
>> than others who have posted, but how am I to know that? My posting about
>> the ham being cured and not cooked was posted about the same time you
>> posted your reply which seems to show it is cooked, so it was not like I
>> was not taking you wonderful insight into account. I appreciate your
>> effort trying to make your point, but the way you address me I do not
>> like
>> at all. That's why I will killfile you. Anyway, thank you for your help
>> up
>> to now. At least I now know the ham is cooked!
>>
>> --
>> //ceed ©¿©¬
>
>



--
//ceed ©¿©¬

"Edwin Pawlowski" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Matthew L. Martin" > wrote in message
>>
>> As always, read what Kent says, then ignore it. This could save your
>> life. If you still need an answer to your question contact someone who
>> knows the answer. Kent is not your guy.
>>
>> --
>> Matthew
>
> Why? 130 if fine. I often cook pork to a mere 140. The suggested
> temperatures were developed many years ago for garbage fed free range
> pork. Lawyers insist they not be changed. The factory made stuff is free
> of trichinosis and can be eaten a little pink.
>
> For years we could not get Parma hams because they are not cooked.
> Finally, the USDA came to their senses and allows them to be imported now.
> --


Trichina is done flying at around 138 or so, if it IS present, which isn't
the case any more. Like you, I cook it to the 140-145 range and it's a
little pink, certainly not raw or harmful and mighty mighty TASTY.

Jack