I tried to make some sausage this weekend, but failed.

Here is what I did:
50% pork

50% cow
ad spices, salt and pepper mix well and let it rest for a couple of days in
the fridge. Grind through a medium sized plate add garlic, some sugar and
water. Mix well, and stuff. Smoke for about 4 hours at 50 to 75 C.

result:
not salt enough. Next time, ad more salt
although moist, it tasted dry. Next time, more pork, less cow. I think it
was to lean.
Sour. Although sugar has been added, the sausage tasted sour. I have now
idea what happened. So far I can come up with the following suggestions:

Did not rinse the sausage skin enough? The pig intestine came from a sausage
factory. They told me it is ready for use, but should rinse in warm (not to
warm) for about 30 minutes
Intestine to old? Bought the intestine and meat on Tuesday, smoke on
Saturday (keep everything cool)
Meat to old? Not likely. They kill on Monday, slice 'm up on Tuesday.(that
is when I pick up my meat)
To much time between stuffing and smoking? I've been told it is best to
stuff and smoke. In this case, I waited 5 hours after smoking (keeping
things cool)

I don't think the meat is spoiled. It just does not taste good. I hope you
can help me out. I now have to feed the neighbours dog 5 kg of sausage

Adriaan

On 11-Jul-2005, "A. Kesteloo" > wrote:

> I tried to make some sausage this weekend, but failed.
>
> Here is what I did:
> 50% pork
>
> 50% cow
> ad spices, salt and pepper mix well and let it rest for a couple of days
> in
> the fridge. Grind through a medium sized plate add garlic, some sugar and
> water. Mix well, and stuff. Smoke for about 4 hours at 50 to 75 C.
>
> result:
> not salt enough. Next time, ad more salt
> although moist, it tasted dry. Next time, more pork, less cow. I think it
> was to lean.
> Sour. Although sugar has been added, the sausage tasted sour. I have now
> idea what happened. So far I can come up with the following suggestions:
>
> Did not rinse the sausage skin enough? The pig intestine came from a
> sausage
> factory. They told me it is ready for use, but should rinse in warm (not
> to
> warm) for about 30 minutes
> Intestine to old? Bought the intestine and meat on Tuesday, smoke on
> Saturday (keep everything cool)
> Meat to old? Not likely. They kill on Monday, slice 'm up on Tuesday.(that
>
> is when I pick up my meat)
> To much time between stuffing and smoking? I've been told it is best to
> stuff and smoke. In this case, I waited 5 hours after smoking (keeping
> things cool)
>
> I don't think the meat is spoiled. It just does not taste good. I hope you
>
> can help me out. I now have to feed the neighbours dog 5 kg of sausage
>
> Adriaan

The best favor you can do for yourself is get a copy of "Great Sausage
Recipes and Meat Curing" by Rytek Kutas. That's the sausage maker's
bible written by the master himself. Kutas also provides a 'One Stop' shop
for sausage making supplies. (http://www.sausagemaker.com/) His
chief competitor is http://alliedkenco.com/

One of the tips you'll find in the book is to cook and taste a small sample
of your sausage before you assemble the whole enchilada. I'm guessing
that your casing was your prime suspect, but of course you stuffed the
whole 5 kg before testing the product.
--
(Don't bother to agree with me, I have already changed my mind.)

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

We did try the meat the day before smoking. at that moment it tasted good
although more salt was needed. the meat did not taste sour at that time (or
did not notice it) we added salt, but did not try it again. that was a
mistake. more salt was needed.
I did call the butcher, he sugested that the proces took to long (start on
wensday, smoke on saturday) when grinding and mixing by hand, the meat would
get to warm. He also sayd something about drippings from the cow meat. wich
might add to the sour problem. He once had this problem with a sausage from
horse meat.

Adriaan

"Brick" > schreef in bericht
...
>
> On 11-Jul-2005, "A. Kesteloo" > wrote:
>
>> I tried to make some sausage this weekend, but failed.
>>
>> Here is what I did:
>> 50% pork
>>
>> 50% cow
>> ad spices, salt and pepper mix well and let it rest for a couple of days
>> in
>> the fridge. Grind through a medium sized plate add garlic, some sugar and
>> water. Mix well, and stuff. Smoke for about 4 hours at 50 to 75 C.
>>
>> result:
>> not salt enough. Next time, ad more salt
>> although moist, it tasted dry. Next time, more pork, less cow. I think it
>> was to lean.
>> Sour. Although sugar has been added, the sausage tasted sour. I have now
>> idea what happened. So far I can come up with the following suggestions:
>>
>> Did not rinse the sausage skin enough? The pig intestine came from a
>> sausage
>> factory. They told me it is ready for use, but should rinse in warm (not
>> to
>> warm) for about 30 minutes
>> Intestine to old? Bought the intestine and meat on Tuesday, smoke on
>> Saturday (keep everything cool)
>> Meat to old? Not likely. They kill on Monday, slice 'm up on
>> Tuesday.(that
>>
>> is when I pick up my meat)
>> To much time between stuffing and smoking? I've been told it is best to
>> stuff and smoke. In this case, I waited 5 hours after smoking (keeping
>> things cool)
>>
>> I don't think the meat is spoiled. It just does not taste good. I hope
>> you
>>
>> can help me out. I now have to feed the neighbours dog 5 kg of sausage
>>
>> Adriaan
>
> The best favor you can do for yourself is get a copy of "Great Sausage
> Recipes and Meat Curing" by Rytek Kutas. That's the sausage maker's
> bible written by the master himself. Kutas also provides a 'One Stop' shop
> for sausage making supplies. (http://www.sausagemaker.com/) His
> chief competitor is http://alliedkenco.com/
>
> One of the tips you'll find in the book is to cook and taste a small
> sample
> of your sausage before you assemble the whole enchilada. I'm guessing
> that your casing was your prime suspect, but of course you stuffed the
> whole 5 kg before testing the product.
> --
> (Don't bother to agree with me, I have already changed my mind.)
>
> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
> News==----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+
> Newsgroups
> ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption
> =----

In ,
A. Kesteloo > said:
> We did try the meat the day before smoking. at that moment it tasted
> good although more salt was needed. the meat did not taste sour at
> that time (or did not notice it) we added salt, but did not try it
> again. that was a mistake. more salt was needed.
> I did call the butcher, he sugested that the proces took to long
> (start on wensday, smoke on saturday) when grinding and mixing by
> hand, the meat would get to warm. He also sayd something about
> drippings from the cow meat. wich might add to the sour problem. He
> once had this problem with a sausage from horse meat.
>
> Adriaan
>
> "Brick" > schreef in bericht
> ...
>>
>> On 11-Jul-2005, "A. Kesteloo" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I tried to make some sausage this weekend, but failed.
>>>
>>> Here is what I did:
>>> 50% pork
>>>
>>> 50% cow
>>> ad spices, salt and pepper mix well and let it rest for a couple of
>>> days in
>>> the fridge. Grind through a medium sized plate add garlic, some
>>> sugar and water. Mix well, and stuff. Smoke for about 4 hours at 50
>>> to 75 C.
>>>
>>> result:
>>> not salt enough. Next time, ad more salt
>>> although moist, it tasted dry. Next time, more pork, less cow. I
>>> think it was to lean.
>>> Sour. Although sugar has been added, the sausage tasted sour. I
>>> have now idea what happened. So far I can come up with the
>>> following suggestions:
>>>
>>> Did not rinse the sausage skin enough? The pig intestine came from a
>>> sausage
>>> factory. They told me it is ready for use, but should rinse in warm
>>> (not to
>>> warm) for about 30 minutes
>>> Intestine to old? Bought the intestine and meat on Tuesday, smoke on
>>> Saturday (keep everything cool)
>>> Meat to old? Not likely. They kill on Monday, slice 'm up on
>>> Tuesday.(that
>>>
>>> is when I pick up my meat)
>>> To much time between stuffing and smoking? I've been told it is
>>> best to stuff and smoke. In this case, I waited 5 hours after
>>> smoking (keeping things cool)
>>>
>>> I don't think the meat is spoiled. It just does not taste good. I
>>> hope you
>>>
>>> can help me out. I now have to feed the neighbours dog 5 kg of
>>> sausage
>>>
>>> Adriaan
>>
>> The best favor you can do for yourself is get a copy of "Great
>> Sausage Recipes and Meat Curing" by Rytek Kutas. That's the sausage
>> maker's
>> bible written by the master himself. Kutas also provides a 'One
>> Stop' shop for sausage making supplies.
>> (http://www.sausagemaker.com/) His
>> chief competitor is http://alliedkenco.com/
>>
>> One of the tips you'll find in the book is to cook and taste a small
>> sample
>> of your sausage before you assemble the whole enchilada. I'm guessing
>> that your casing was your prime suspect, but of course you stuffed
>> the whole 5 kg before testing the product.
>> --
>> (Don't bother to agree with me, I have already changed my mind.)
>>
>> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
>> News==----
>> http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
>> 120,000+ Newsgroups
>> ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption
>> =----

Sounds like you picked up a lacto-bacillus infection. Not dangerous, just
unexpected. (It's what gives pepperoni its zing.) Move it along faster,
and keep it colder, and you will be ok. Use more fat. (More than you think
you need)



Also: This is VERY important: Smoking meat creates the perfect conditions
for ptomaine food poisoning. (Moisture, heat, and lack of O2). Please use
some Sodium Nitrate to replace some of your salt when mixing. 1/2 teaspoon
for 5 lbs is good. (1 cc per 2kg for you metric heads out there.) The life
you save might be your own

> A. Kesteloo > said:

>> I did call the butcher, he sugested that the proces took to long
>> (start on wensday, smoke on saturday) when grinding and mixing by
>> hand, the meat would get to warm.

Can you elaborate on this? Time? Temperature? Was there a cure in the
recipe?

"Edwin Pawlowski" > schreef in bericht
. ..
>
>> A. Kesteloo > said:
>
>>> I did call the butcher, he sugested that the proces took to long
>>> (start on wensday, smoke on saturday) when grinding and mixing by
>>> hand, the meat would get to warm.
>
> Can you elaborate on this? Time? Temperature? Was there a cure in the
> recipe?
>
I would normaly use special salt curing salt (the same the butcher uses for
his sausages). this time I used normal salt.
timetable:
tuesday: buy meat (vacuum seal)
wensday: cut meat in large parts and ad salt and spices.
thursday: nothing
friday: grind and mix meat, ad garlic and water
saturday: mix meat again, and ad a little water. stuff sausage and leave it
in the fridge for another 5 hours. (smoker full, had to wait)
smoketime at 4 hours. keeping the temp around 50 to 60 C. the last hour
raise the temp to 75 tot 80 C.
I did not check the internal temp of the sausage. the skin felt good and the
fat in the sausage was liquid. (the fat wat melted and "you could see
through the sausage").

that day, I also smoked pig loin and ham. In the brine I used the special
salt. this meat came out perfect. the problem cannot have been the wood I
used (oak)

Adriaan

"A. Kesteloo" > wrote in message
> I would normaly use special salt curing salt (the same the butcher uses
> for his sausages). this time I used normal salt.
> timetable:

> smoketime at 4 hours. keeping the temp around 50 to 60 C. the last hour
> raise the temp to 75 tot 80 C.

At that temperature and no cure in the meat, it may have spoiled. 50C =
122F

What you refer to as special salt is cure #1, a mix of salt and sodium
nitrite, a preservative. You can buy it under various names, InstaCure,
Modern Cure, Prague powder, etc.

I'd not eat the meat. Could make you sick since it has a sour taste to it.
--
Ed
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome/

Thanks for your response.

I'll never listen to anybody again who says to use normal salt. (although he
makes a great sausage)
the salt I normaly use is nitrate picking salt 0.5 / 0.6% NaNO2. I will try
to make some sausage again next month. Meanwhile, ill try to get a copy of
"Great Sausage
Recipes and Meat Curing" by Rytek Kutas. although it might be hard to get
here in the netherlands.

I'll let you know how the next sausage will turn out

Adriaan


"Edwin Pawlowski" > schreef in bericht
. ..
>
> "A. Kesteloo" > wrote in message
>> I would normaly use special salt curing salt (the same the butcher uses
>> for his sausages). this time I used normal salt.
>> timetable:
>
>> smoketime at 4 hours. keeping the temp around 50 to 60 C. the last hour
>> raise the temp to 75 tot 80 C.
>
> At that temperature and no cure in the meat, it may have spoiled. 50C =
> 122F
>
> What you refer to as special salt is cure #1, a mix of salt and sodium
> nitrite, a preservative. You can buy it under various names, InstaCure,
> Modern Cure, Prague powder, etc.
>
> I'd not eat the meat. Could make you sick since it has a sour taste to
> it.
> --
> Ed
> http://pages.cthome.net/edhome/
>

On 12-Jul-2005, "A. Kesteloo" > wrote:

> Thanks for your response.
>
> I'll never listen to anybody again who says to use normal salt. (although
> he
> makes a great sausage)
> the salt I normaly use is nitrate picking salt 0.5 / 0.6% NaNO2. I will
> try
> to make some sausage again next month. Meanwhile, ill try to get a copy of
>
> "Great Sausage
> Recipes and Meat Curing" by Rytek Kutas. although it might be hard to get
> here in the netherlands.

You can order it online from, "The Sausage maker"
http://www.sausagemaker.com/index.htm


>
> I'll let you know how the next sausage will turn out
>
> Adriaan
>
>
> "Edwin Pawlowski" > schreef in bericht
> . ..
> >
> > "A. Kesteloo" > wrote in message
> >> I would normaly use special salt curing salt (the same the butcher uses
> >>
> >> for his sausages). this time I used normal salt.
> >> timetable:
> >
> >> smoketime at 4 hours. keeping the temp around 50 to 60 C. the last hour
> >>
> >> raise the temp to 75 tot 80 C.
> >
> > At that temperature and no cure in the meat, it may have spoiled. 50C =
> >
> > 122F
> >
> > What you refer to as special salt is cure #1, a mix of salt and sodium
> > nitrite, a preservative. You can buy it under various names, InstaCure,
> >
> > Modern Cure, Prague powder, etc.
> >
> > I'd not eat the meat. Could make you sick since it has a sour taste to
> > it.
> > --
> > Ed
> > http://pages.cthome.net/edhome/
> >

--
The Brick said that (Don't bother to agree with me, I have already changed
my mind.)

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

A. Kesteloo wrote:

> I tried to make some sausage this weekend, but failed.
>
> Here is what I did:
> 50% pork
>
> 50% cow
> ad spices, salt and pepper mix well and let it rest for a couple of days in
> the fridge. Grind through a medium sized plate add garlic, some sugar and
> water. Mix well, and stuff. Smoke for about 4 hours at 50 to 75 C.
>
> result:
> not salt enough. Next time, ad more salt
> although moist, it tasted dry. Next time, more pork, less cow. I think it
> was to lean.
> Sour. Although sugar has been added, the sausage tasted sour. I have now
> idea what happened. So far I can come up with the following suggestions:
>
> Did not rinse the sausage skin enough? The pig intestine came from a sausage
> factory. They told me it is ready for use, but should rinse in warm (not to
> warm) for about 30 minutes
> Intestine to old? Bought the intestine and meat on Tuesday, smoke on
> Saturday (keep everything cool)
> Meat to old? Not likely. They kill on Monday, slice 'm up on Tuesday.(that
> is when I pick up my meat)
> To much time between stuffing and smoking? I've been told it is best to
> stuff and smoke. In this case, I waited 5 hours after smoking (keeping
> things cool)
>
> I don't think the meat is spoiled. It just does not taste good. I hope you
> can help me out. I now have to feed the neighbours dog 5 kg of sausage
>
> Adriaan
>
>

I recently made brats, using a mixture of store ground pork and ground
chuck. About a 4 to 1 ratio. I grilled the brats and was not happy
with the results. Thought it was kinda dry. I rinsed the casing well,
but did neglect to rinse the inside. Felt I worked with the meat fast
enough. Was still cool to the touch.

Have made sausage before that came out very good. Will try again, but
maybe not during the summer. Might be 80° in kitchen now(don't have A/C).

A 50/50 mix seems a bit heavy to me. I know sausage can be made with
beef, but have always thought of sausage being made mostly with pork.

Maybe the neighbors dog don't care though and eats good for a week !

BBQ

On 14-Jul-2005, bbq > wrote:

> A. Kesteloo wrote:
>
> > I tried to make some sausage this weekend, but failed.
> >
> > Here is what I did:
> > 50% pork
> >
> > 50% cow
> > ad spices, salt and pepper mix well and let it rest for a couple of days
> > in
> > the fridge. Grind through a medium sized plate add garlic, some sugar
> > and
> > water. Mix well, and stuff. Smoke for about 4 hours at 50 to 75 C.
> >
> > result:
> > not salt enough. Next time, ad more salt
> > although moist, it tasted dry. Next time, more pork, less cow. I think
> > it
> > was to lean.
> > Sour. Although sugar has been added, the sausage tasted sour. I have now
> >
> > idea what happened. So far I can come up with the following suggestions:
> >
> > Did not rinse the sausage skin enough? The pig intestine came from a
> > sausage
> > factory. They told me it is ready for use, but should rinse in warm (not
> > to
> > warm) for about 30 minutes
> > Intestine to old? Bought the intestine and meat on Tuesday, smoke on
> > Saturday (keep everything cool)
> > Meat to old? Not likely. They kill on Monday, slice 'm up on
> > Tuesday.(that
> > is when I pick up my meat)
> > To much time between stuffing and smoking? I've been told it is best to
> > stuff and smoke. In this case, I waited 5 hours after smoking (keeping
> > things cool)
> >
> > I don't think the meat is spoiled. It just does not taste good. I hope
> > you
> > can help me out. I now have to feed the neighbours dog 5 kg of sausage
> >
> > Adriaan
> >
> >
>
> I recently made brats, using a mixture of store ground pork and ground
> chuck. About a 4 to 1 ratio. I grilled the brats and was not happy
> with the results. Thought it was kinda dry. I rinsed the casing well,
> but did neglect to rinse the inside. Felt I worked with the meat fast
> enough. Was still cool to the touch.
>
> Have made sausage before that came out very good. Will try again, but
> maybe not during the summer. Might be 80° in kitchen now(don't have A/C).
>
> A 50/50 mix seems a bit heavy to me. I know sausage can be made with
> beef, but have always thought of sausage being made mostly with pork.
>
> Maybe the neighbors dog don't care though and eats good for a week !
>
> BBQ

Casings need to be rinsed on the inside by running water through them.

Cool to the touch doesn't cut it. Cold is the right word. Difficult to do,
but necessary. Refrigerate the grinder, the casings and the meat.
Once stuffed, you can't leave it laying around. It must be smoked,
cooked or frozen. Take your pick. Ref: Rytek Kutas, "The Sausage
Maker".

--
The Brick said that (Don't bother to agree with me, I have already changed
my mind.)

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

Brick wrote:

> On 14-Jul-2005, bbq > wrote:
>
>
>>A. Kesteloo wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I tried to make some sausage this weekend, but failed.
>>>
>>>Here is what I did:
>>>50% pork
>>>
>>>50% cow
>>>ad spices, salt and pepper mix well and let it rest for a couple of days
>>>in
>>>the fridge. Grind through a medium sized plate add garlic, some sugar
>>>and
>>>water. Mix well, and stuff. Smoke for about 4 hours at 50 to 75 C.
>>>
>>>result:
>>>not salt enough. Next time, ad more salt
>>>although moist, it tasted dry. Next time, more pork, less cow. I think
>>>it
>>>was to lean.
>>>Sour. Although sugar has been added, the sausage tasted sour. I have now
>>>
>>>idea what happened. So far I can come up with the following suggestions:
>>>
>>>Did not rinse the sausage skin enough? The pig intestine came from a
>>>sausage
>>>factory. They told me it is ready for use, but should rinse in warm (not
>>>to
>>>warm) for about 30 minutes
>>>Intestine to old? Bought the intestine and meat on Tuesday, smoke on
>>>Saturday (keep everything cool)
>>>Meat to old? Not likely. They kill on Monday, slice 'm up on
>>>Tuesday.(that
>>>is when I pick up my meat)
>>>To much time between stuffing and smoking? I've been told it is best to
>>>stuff and smoke. In this case, I waited 5 hours after smoking (keeping
>>>things cool)
>>>
>>>I don't think the meat is spoiled. It just does not taste good. I hope
>>>you
>>>can help me out. I now have to feed the neighbours dog 5 kg of sausage
>>>
>>>Adriaan
>>>
>>>
>>
>>I recently made brats, using a mixture of store ground pork and ground
>>chuck. About a 4 to 1 ratio. I grilled the brats and was not happy
>>with the results. Thought it was kinda dry. I rinsed the casing well,
>>but did neglect to rinse the inside. Felt I worked with the meat fast
>>enough. Was still cool to the touch.
>>
>>Have made sausage before that came out very good. Will try again, but
>>maybe not during the summer. Might be 80° in kitchen now(don't have A/C).
>>
>>A 50/50 mix seems a bit heavy to me. I know sausage can be made with
>>beef, but have always thought of sausage being made mostly with pork.
>>
>>Maybe the neighbors dog don't care though and eats good for a week !
>>
>>BBQ
>
>
> Casings need to be rinsed on the inside by running water through them.
>

Yep, and the instructions on the package (dewied hog casings) said so.
I just plain forgot to after softening them up in warm water.

> Cool to the touch doesn't cut it. Cold is the right word. Difficult to do,
> but necessary. Refrigerate the grinder, the casings and the meat.
> Once stuffed, you can't leave it laying around. It must be smoked,
> cooked or frozen. Take your pick. Ref: Rytek Kutas, "The Sausage
> Maker".
>

Not refrigerated? Will have to get his book. Thanks for the reference.

BBQ

On 14-Jul-2005, bbq > wrote:

> Brick wrote:
>
> > On 14-Jul-2005, bbq > wrote:
> >
> >
> >>A. Kesteloo wrote:
> >>

<snip>

> > but necessary. Refrigerate the grinder, the casings and the meat.
> > Once stuffed, you can't leave it laying around. It must be smoked,
> > cooked or frozen. Take your pick. Ref: Rytek Kutas, "The Sausage
> > Maker".
> >
>
> Not refrigerated? Will have to get his book. Thanks for the reference.
>
> BBQ

The specific reference is: "Great Sausage Recipes and Meat Curing"
by Rytek Kutas, published by The Sausage Maker, Inc., one of his
own companies.

And you're right. I should have included refrigerated. It's just that I
automatically think in terms of long storage times which precludes
simple refrigeration. In fact, these days, I can or freeze most
everything.

--
The Brick said that (Youth is wasted on young people)

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----