Hi there

I had some questions about brining and smoke ham last week. I thought I
should tell you about the results.

Take a look he http://www.creativeimpulse.nl/temp/page_01.htm

Meat

5 hams 1.5 kg (3.3 pounds) each

2 pieces of loin 1.5 kg (3.3 pounds) each

chicken breast filet 1.5 kg (3.3 pounds) (brine only with water, salt and
sugar (8 hours))

brine for ham and loin:

13 liter (3.43 gallons) water

2 tablespoon peppercorn

2 tablespoon juniper berries

1 tablespoon cloves

25 bay leaves

salt (till the raw egg floats +/- 10%)

The ham and loin where in the brine for 4 days in the fridge.

Both the ham and loin had a 1 cm fat cap on one side.

Last Saturday was the smoke day.

I took the meat out of the brine, rinsed it and let it rest in sweet water
for one hour (read somewhere that this was the right way to do it). Took the
meat out of the water, dry the meat with a clean towel and let it come to
room temperature. The smoker uses wood only. (oak) Started smoking around
11:00 with a temp of 140 F. (60 C.) After 1.5 hours, the temp went up to 212
F. (100 C.) for three hours. The last hour, I brought the temp up to 257 F.
(125 C.) to finish. The meat had an internal temp of 158 F. (70 C.) Total
smoking time: 6 Hours Of course, I took the chicken out much earlier.

The results:

Color: outside; light brown, no black burned parts. Inside; light pink
because of the special salt. The center of the ham was gray. I assume the
salt did not penetrate the whole peace of meat.

Structu the meat was done, sliceable and not dry

Taste: not salt enough, and although I used oak wood only, I was surprised
that the meat did not have a heavy smoke flavor.

Things to do different next time:

Buy a meat pump (Morton Meat Pump BY WESTERN INSTRUMENTS, PUMP - 4

OZ.- Short, Fat Style Comes With 12 Hole Perforated & 1/8" Slanted
Marinating Needles

12-1/2" Long - Holds 4 Oz. ) to get rid of the gray center in big pieces of
meat. (inject 10% of green weight)

salt in the brine will stay the same. I hope that the finished product will
be more salt because of the brine injection

Fat cap was 1 cm (0.39 inch). Which might be to much, will go for 0.5 cm
next time.

Chicken came out a bit dry. Next time, by bigger pieces, or switch to turkey
breast (and pump with brine)

Leave the temp below 212 F. (100 C.) which should result in a longer smoking
time and a heavier smoke taste (hope the meat will not dry out).

Maybe add more spices in the brine?



Thanks for all the help and advise. I would not get this result without you
guys.



Adriaan



Next smoke day: probably 4 weeks from now

"A. Kesteloo" > wrote in message

> chicken breast filet 1.5 kg (3.3 pounds) (brine only with water, salt and
> sugar (8 hours))
>
> brine for ham and loin:
>

>) Started smoking around
> 11:00 with a temp of 140 F. (60 C.) After 1.5 hours, the temp went up to
> 212
> F. (100 C.) for three hours. The last hour, I brought the temp up to 257
> F.
> (125 C.) to finish. The meat had an internal temp of 158 F. (70 C.) Total
> smoking time: 6 Hours Of course, I took the chicken out much earlier.

> salt in the brine will stay the same. I hope that the finished product
> will
> be more salt because of the brine injection

> Chicken came out a bit dry. Next time, by bigger pieces, or switch to
> turkey
> breast (and pump with brine)
>
> Leave the temp below 212 F. (100 C.) which should result in a longer
> smoking
> time and a heavier smoke taste (hope the meat will not dry out).

You have to inject the meat. You have to use a cure, especially at the low
temperatures you are cooking at. Adding spices will do little, but
injecting will do a lot. That will also increase the salt flavor quite a
bit. I usually soak mine for a while to remove the excess before smoking.

"A. Kesteloo" > wrote in message

> chicken breast filet 1.5 kg (3.3 pounds) (brine only with water, salt and
> sugar (8 hours))
>
> brine for ham and loin:
>

>) Started smoking around
> 11:00 with a temp of 140 F. (60 C.) After 1.5 hours, the temp went up to
> 212
> F. (100 C.) for three hours. The last hour, I brought the temp up to 257
> F.
> (125 C.) to finish. The meat had an internal temp of 158 F. (70 C.) Total
> smoking time: 6 Hours Of course, I took the chicken out much earlier.

> salt in the brine will stay the same. I hope that the finished product
> will
> be more salt because of the brine injection

> Chicken came out a bit dry. Next time, by bigger pieces, or switch to
> turkey
> breast (and pump with brine)
>
> Leave the temp below 212 F. (100 C.) which should result in a longer
> smoking
> time and a heavier smoke taste (hope the meat will not dry out).

You have to inject the meat. You have to use a cure, especially at the low
temperatures you are cooking at. Adding spices will do little, but
injecting will do a lot. That will also increase the salt flavor quite a
bit. I usually soak mine for a while to remove the excess before smoking.

I'm not sure what a cure is.
The salt I use is called Colorozo salt (pickle salt?). some kind of vacuum
salt with 0,6% natriumnitriet (sodium nitrite) as a preservation, and to
give the meat a pink color. No tenderizers are added.



Adriaan

"Edwin Pawlowski" > wrote in message
om...
>
> "A. Kesteloo" > wrote in message
>
> > chicken breast filet 1.5 kg (3.3 pounds) (brine only with water, salt
and
> > sugar (8 hours))
> >
> > brine for ham and loin:
> >
>
> >) Started smoking around
> > 11:00 with a temp of 140 F. (60 C.) After 1.5 hours, the temp went up to
> > 212
> > F. (100 C.) for three hours. The last hour, I brought the temp up to 257
> > F.
> > (125 C.) to finish. The meat had an internal temp of 158 F. (70 C.)
Total
> > smoking time: 6 Hours Of course, I took the chicken out much earlier.
>
> > salt in the brine will stay the same. I hope that the finished product
> > will
> > be more salt because of the brine injection
>
> > Chicken came out a bit dry. Next time, by bigger pieces, or switch to
> > turkey
> > breast (and pump with brine)
> >
> > Leave the temp below 212 F. (100 C.) which should result in a longer
> > smoking
> > time and a heavier smoke taste (hope the meat will not dry out).
>
> You have to inject the meat. You have to use a cure, especially at the low
> temperatures you are cooking at. Adding spices will do little, but
> injecting will do a lot. That will also increase the salt flavor quite a
> bit. I usually soak mine for a while to remove the excess before smoking.
>
>

I'm not sure what a cure is.
The salt I use is called Colorozo salt (pickle salt?). some kind of vacuum
salt with 0,6% natriumnitriet (sodium nitrite) as a preservation, and to
give the meat a pink color. No tenderizers are added.



Adriaan

"Edwin Pawlowski" > wrote in message
om...
>
> "A. Kesteloo" > wrote in message
>
> > chicken breast filet 1.5 kg (3.3 pounds) (brine only with water, salt
and
> > sugar (8 hours))
> >
> > brine for ham and loin:
> >
>
> >) Started smoking around
> > 11:00 with a temp of 140 F. (60 C.) After 1.5 hours, the temp went up to
> > 212
> > F. (100 C.) for three hours. The last hour, I brought the temp up to 257
> > F.
> > (125 C.) to finish. The meat had an internal temp of 158 F. (70 C.)
Total
> > smoking time: 6 Hours Of course, I took the chicken out much earlier.
>
> > salt in the brine will stay the same. I hope that the finished product
> > will
> > be more salt because of the brine injection
>
> > Chicken came out a bit dry. Next time, by bigger pieces, or switch to
> > turkey
> > breast (and pump with brine)
> >
> > Leave the temp below 212 F. (100 C.) which should result in a longer
> > smoking
> > time and a heavier smoke taste (hope the meat will not dry out).
>
> You have to inject the meat. You have to use a cure, especially at the low
> temperatures you are cooking at. Adding spices will do little, but
> injecting will do a lot. That will also increase the salt flavor quite a
> bit. I usually soak mine for a while to remove the excess before smoking.
>
>

A. Kesteloo wrote:
> I'm not sure what a cure is.
> The salt I use is called Colorozo salt (pickle salt?). some kind of
> vacuum salt with 0,6% natriumnitriet (sodium nitrite) as a
> preservation, and to give the meat a pink color. No tenderizers are
> added.
>
>
Seems like we just went through this, but let's try again. Colorozo
contains sodium nitrite which is a preservative - that's a "cure" - and is
similar to Morton's Tenderquick (which contains no tenderizers, despite its
name). The pink color the sodium nitrite gives the meat is a consequence of
the preservative, not an object of it. It isn't added "to give the meat a
pink color."

Again, Ed has given you good advice. Inject the meat next time and you
won't have the gray (uncured meat) color inside.

Jack Curry

A. Kesteloo wrote:
> I'm not sure what a cure is.
> The salt I use is called Colorozo salt (pickle salt?). some kind of
> vacuum salt with 0,6% natriumnitriet (sodium nitrite) as a
> preservation, and to give the meat a pink color. No tenderizers are
> added.
>
>
Seems like we just went through this, but let's try again. Colorozo
contains sodium nitrite which is a preservative - that's a "cure" - and is
similar to Morton's Tenderquick (which contains no tenderizers, despite its
name). The pink color the sodium nitrite gives the meat is a consequence of
the preservative, not an object of it. It isn't added "to give the meat a
pink color."

Again, Ed has given you good advice. Inject the meat next time and you
won't have the gray (uncured meat) color inside.

Jack Curry

On 19-Oct-2004, "A. Kesteloo" > wrote:

> Hi there
>
> I had some questions about brining and smoke ham last week. I thought I
> should tell you about the results.
>
> Take a look he http://www.creativeimpulse.nl/temp/page_01.htm
>

<Snip detailed report>
>
> Thanks for all the help and advise. I would not get this result without you
> guys.
>
>
> Adriaan
>
>
> Next smoke day: probably 4 weeks from now

Looks like a really good first shot to me. I can't see how you're going to any-
thing but improve with each subsequent smoke. My only suggestion is to
freely use the resources at http://www.sausagemaker.com/index.asp. The
knowledge found there traces all the way back to the "Old Country". I have
a copy of the book "Great Sausage Recipes and Meat Curing" and it's hard
to beat as a one stop source of information on the subject.

--
Brick(DL5BF, WA7ERO, HS4ADI)


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On 19-Oct-2004, "A. Kesteloo" > wrote:

> Hi there
>
> I had some questions about brining and smoke ham last week. I thought I
> should tell you about the results.
>
> Take a look he http://www.creativeimpulse.nl/temp/page_01.htm
>

<Snip detailed report>
>
> Thanks for all the help and advise. I would not get this result without you
> guys.
>
>
> Adriaan
>
>
> Next smoke day: probably 4 weeks from now

Looks like a really good first shot to me. I can't see how you're going to any-
thing but improve with each subsequent smoke. My only suggestion is to
freely use the resources at http://www.sausagemaker.com/index.asp. The
knowledge found there traces all the way back to the "Old Country". I have
a copy of the book "Great Sausage Recipes and Meat Curing" and it's hard
to beat as a one stop source of information on the subject.

--
Brick(DL5BF, WA7ERO, HS4ADI)


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sorry for the confusion. But ed's remark "you have to use a cure" made me
question my solution. I thought I used a cure. the only mistake a made (I
think) was not using a meat pump.
So to be short. Im looking for conformation that the salt I used produced a
cure.

Adriaan

"Jack Curry" <Jack-CurryRemove > wrote in message
...
> A. Kesteloo wrote:
> > I'm not sure what a cure is.
> > The salt I use is called Colorozo salt (pickle salt?). some kind of
> > vacuum salt with 0,6% natriumnitriet (sodium nitrite) as a
> > preservation, and to give the meat a pink color. No tenderizers are
> > added.
> >
> >
> Seems like we just went through this, but let's try again. Colorozo
> contains sodium nitrite which is a preservative - that's a "cure" - and is
> similar to Morton's Tenderquick (which contains no tenderizers, despite
its
> name). The pink color the sodium nitrite gives the meat is a consequence
of
> the preservative, not an object of it. It isn't added "to give the meat a
> pink color."
>
> Again, Ed has given you good advice. Inject the meat next time and you
> won't have the gray (uncured meat) color inside.
>
> Jack Curry
>
>

sorry for the confusion. But ed's remark "you have to use a cure" made me
question my solution. I thought I used a cure. the only mistake a made (I
think) was not using a meat pump.
So to be short. Im looking for conformation that the salt I used produced a
cure.

Adriaan

"Jack Curry" <Jack-CurryRemove > wrote in message
...
> A. Kesteloo wrote:
> > I'm not sure what a cure is.
> > The salt I use is called Colorozo salt (pickle salt?). some kind of
> > vacuum salt with 0,6% natriumnitriet (sodium nitrite) as a
> > preservation, and to give the meat a pink color. No tenderizers are
> > added.
> >
> >
> Seems like we just went through this, but let's try again. Colorozo
> contains sodium nitrite which is a preservative - that's a "cure" - and is
> similar to Morton's Tenderquick (which contains no tenderizers, despite
its
> name). The pink color the sodium nitrite gives the meat is a consequence
of
> the preservative, not an object of it. It isn't added "to give the meat a
> pink color."
>
> Again, Ed has given you good advice. Inject the meat next time and you
> won't have the gray (uncured meat) color inside.
>
> Jack Curry
>
>

On 19-Oct-2004, "Jack Curry" <Jack-CurryRemove > wrote:

> A. Kesteloo wrote:
> > I'm not sure what a cure is.
> > The salt I use is called Colorozo salt (pickle salt?). some kind of
> > vacuum salt with 0,6% natriumnitriet (sodium nitrite) as a
> > preservation, and to give the meat a pink color. No tenderizers are
> > added.
> >
> >
> Seems like we just went through this, but let's try again. Colorozo
> contains sodium nitrite which is a preservative - that's a "cure" - and is
> similar to Morton's Tenderquick (which contains no tenderizers, despite its
> name). The pink color the sodium nitrite gives the meat is a consequence of
> the preservative, not an object of it. It isn't added "to give the meat a
> pink color."
>
> Again, Ed has given you good advice. Inject the meat next time and you
> won't have the gray (uncured meat) color inside.
>
> Jack Curry

What Jack and Ed said, plus the most recommened cure product is "Prague
Powder #1" (Sodium Nitrite). As you've seen, many here use Morton's "Tender-
quick", which will do the same thing. Do not confuse "Prague Powder #1" with
Prague Powder #2. They serve different purposes entirely. Similarly, don't
confuse "sodium nitrite" with "sodium nitrate". Your statement that you don't
know what a cure is, is scary.

--
Brick(DL5BF, WA7ERO, HS4ADI)


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On 19-Oct-2004, "Jack Curry" <Jack-CurryRemove > wrote:

> A. Kesteloo wrote:
> > I'm not sure what a cure is.
> > The salt I use is called Colorozo salt (pickle salt?). some kind of
> > vacuum salt with 0,6% natriumnitriet (sodium nitrite) as a
> > preservation, and to give the meat a pink color. No tenderizers are
> > added.
> >
> >
> Seems like we just went through this, but let's try again. Colorozo
> contains sodium nitrite which is a preservative - that's a "cure" - and is
> similar to Morton's Tenderquick (which contains no tenderizers, despite its
> name). The pink color the sodium nitrite gives the meat is a consequence of
> the preservative, not an object of it. It isn't added "to give the meat a
> pink color."
>
> Again, Ed has given you good advice. Inject the meat next time and you
> won't have the gray (uncured meat) color inside.
>
> Jack Curry

What Jack and Ed said, plus the most recommened cure product is "Prague
Powder #1" (Sodium Nitrite). As you've seen, many here use Morton's "Tender-
quick", which will do the same thing. Do not confuse "Prague Powder #1" with
Prague Powder #2. They serve different purposes entirely. Similarly, don't
confuse "sodium nitrite" with "sodium nitrate". Your statement that you don't
know what a cure is, is scary.

--
Brick(DL5BF, WA7ERO, HS4ADI)


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It's more a language problem. English is not my first language. As far as I
know we have one word for both a brine and a cure. "pekelbad". used to be
just water and salt. now with preservation stuff added. even with herbs and
spices addes, it is still called a "pekelbad".

Adriaan

"Brick" > wrote in message
...
>
> On 19-Oct-2004, "Jack Curry" <Jack-CurryRemove > wrote:
>
> > A. Kesteloo wrote:
> > > I'm not sure what a cure is.
> > > The salt I use is called Colorozo salt (pickle salt?). some kind of
> > > vacuum salt with 0,6% natriumnitriet (sodium nitrite) as a
> > > preservation, and to give the meat a pink color. No tenderizers are
> > > added.
> > >
> > >
> > Seems like we just went through this, but let's try again. Colorozo
> > contains sodium nitrite which is a preservative - that's a "cure" - and
is
> > similar to Morton's Tenderquick (which contains no tenderizers, despite
its
> > name). The pink color the sodium nitrite gives the meat is a
consequence of
> > the preservative, not an object of it. It isn't added "to give the meat
a
> > pink color."
> >
> > Again, Ed has given you good advice. Inject the meat next time and you
> > won't have the gray (uncured meat) color inside.
> >
> > Jack Curry
>
> What Jack and Ed said, plus the most recommened cure product is "Prague
> Powder #1" (Sodium Nitrite). As you've seen, many here use Morton's
"Tender-
> quick", which will do the same thing. Do not confuse "Prague Powder #1"
with
> Prague Powder #2. They serve different purposes entirely. Similarly, don't
> confuse "sodium nitrite" with "sodium nitrate". Your statement that you
don't
> know what a cure is, is scary.
>
> --
> Brick(DL5BF, WA7ERO, HS4ADI)
>
>
> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
News==----
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Newsgroups
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It's more a language problem. English is not my first language. As far as I
know we have one word for both a brine and a cure. "pekelbad". used to be
just water and salt. now with preservation stuff added. even with herbs and
spices addes, it is still called a "pekelbad".

Adriaan

"Brick" > wrote in message
...
>
> On 19-Oct-2004, "Jack Curry" <Jack-CurryRemove > wrote:
>
> > A. Kesteloo wrote:
> > > I'm not sure what a cure is.
> > > The salt I use is called Colorozo salt (pickle salt?). some kind of
> > > vacuum salt with 0,6% natriumnitriet (sodium nitrite) as a
> > > preservation, and to give the meat a pink color. No tenderizers are
> > > added.
> > >
> > >
> > Seems like we just went through this, but let's try again. Colorozo
> > contains sodium nitrite which is a preservative - that's a "cure" - and
is
> > similar to Morton's Tenderquick (which contains no tenderizers, despite
its
> > name). The pink color the sodium nitrite gives the meat is a
consequence of
> > the preservative, not an object of it. It isn't added "to give the meat
a
> > pink color."
> >
> > Again, Ed has given you good advice. Inject the meat next time and you
> > won't have the gray (uncured meat) color inside.
> >
> > Jack Curry
>
> What Jack and Ed said, plus the most recommened cure product is "Prague
> Powder #1" (Sodium Nitrite). As you've seen, many here use Morton's
"Tender-
> quick", which will do the same thing. Do not confuse "Prague Powder #1"
with
> Prague Powder #2. They serve different purposes entirely. Similarly, don't
> confuse "sodium nitrite" with "sodium nitrate". Your statement that you
don't
> know what a cure is, is scary.
>
> --
> Brick(DL5BF, WA7ERO, HS4ADI)
>
>
> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
News==----
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Newsgroups
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Some info on cures

From the Sausagemaker

A Few Words About Cures The primary and

most important reason that meat is cured is to prevent food poisoning.

Any kind of meat or sausage that will be cooked and

smoked at low temperature MUST be cured. To trigger food

poisoning, the requirements are lack of oxygen, moisture, and

temperatures in range of 40-140°F. When smoking meats, the

heat and smoke eliminate the oxygen. The meats have moisture

and are traditionally smoked and cooked in the low ranges

of 90 to 160°F. As you can see, these are ideal conditions for

food poisoning if you don't use cures. To explain it in simpler

terms, I am sure that many of us at one time or another have

read a newspaper article about entire families being poisoned

around Thanksgiving or Christmas holidays eating a freshly

killed turkey. How is this possible? To save time, the well intentioned

cook probably decides to make the dressing and stuff the

turkey the night before. The turkey is placed in the fridge and

cooked the next day. Now let us analyze what was done. First

the dressing is cooled so it can easily be handled, stuffed into the

turkey, the cavity sewed up and placed in the fridge overnight.

Inadvertently, the three conditions for food poisoning have been

created: a moist dressing, cooled down to probably 90 or

100°F, for easy handling; removal of the oxygen by sewing up

the cavity. It is that easy to start food poisoning. Even cooking

the turkey at 350 to 400°F will not destroy the toxins. Some,

like Botulism can grow and produce its toxin without a foul

odor or other sign of contamination to warn you.

"Brick" > wrote in message
...
>
> On 19-Oct-2004, "A. Kesteloo" > wrote:
>
> > Hi there
> >
> > I had some questions about brining and smoke ham last week. I thought I
> > should tell you about the results.
> >
> > Take a look he http://www.creativeimpulse.nl/temp/page_01.htm
> >
>
> <Snip detailed report>
> >
> > Thanks for all the help and advise. I would not get this result without
you
> > guys.
> >
> >
> > Adriaan
> >
> >
> > Next smoke day: probably 4 weeks from now
>
> Looks like a really good first shot to me. I can't see how you're going to
any-
> thing but improve with each subsequent smoke. My only suggestion is to
> freely use the resources at http://www.sausagemaker.com/index.asp. The
> knowledge found there traces all the way back to the "Old Country". I have
> a copy of the book "Great Sausage Recipes and Meat Curing" and it's hard
> to beat as a one stop source of information on the subject.
>
> --
> Brick(DL5BF, WA7ERO, HS4ADI)
>
>
> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
News==----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000
Newsgroups
> ---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---