For the second time in a row, I mixed ground beef, some chopped onions =
and seasons. I flatten them and then place them on a hot grill. =20

I cannot flip the burgers because they always fall apart.=20
Any idea on what I am doing wrong?

Pavel wrote:
> For the second time in a row, I mixed ground beef, some chopped onions and
> seasons. I flatten them and then place them on a hot grill.
>
> I cannot flip the burgers because they always fall apart.
> Any idea on what I am doing wrong?

First guess is that the ground beef you are using is too lean. Try more fat
content, or add an egg to the mix to bind it together.

BOB

Pavel wrote:

> For the second time in a row, I mixed ground beef, some chopped onions and seasons. I flatten them and then place them on a hot grill.
>
> I cannot flip the burgers because they always fall apart.
> Any idea on what I am doing wrong?

Mainly, flipping them before you should flip them. When a meat sticks to
something it's most often nature's way of telling you it wants to stay
put for a while longer.

Adding onions to the ground meat makes it want to break apart more, but
the main thing is, you need to leave those burgers alone until they're
really basically *done*...they'll stick together then...then flip them
and just leave with with the other side down long enough to make it
pretty, because they're already done (I'm assuming these aren't
thickburgers).

And of course, the necessary disclaimer, this is grilling, which has to
do with cooking tender meats quickly directly over hot coals. Barbecue
is the art of dragging things out with meats that would leave your jaw
sore if you grilled them and tried to eat them.

Pavel -

Please feel free to put anything you want in your burgers, but you're not
making them better, you're making the worse.

A few key tips on making burgers:
1. the less mixing and meat touching the better. Pre-made burgers are tough
and taste like crap because they're over-handled. I recommend that you take
the meat, salt and pepper liberally, stir gently, then roll 8-12 ounces into
a ball and flatten into a thick patty. Notice the absence of mixing and
mashing instructions.
2. Anything you enjoy inside the burger, is better grilled and placed on top
of the burger when you eat it. Onions? Slice them thick and grill them.
Red Peppers? Blacken them put huge chunks on the burger. Ranch Dressing
mix? Marie's Ranch Dressing on top.
3. Pre-heat your grill for 20 minutes and scrape clean very very well.
4. Oil your grill using a paper towel, oil and a set of tongs (be careful
not to use THONGS, you'll burn your butt cheeks)
5. Place the burgers on the hot grill and immediately turn the heat down to
about medium high. it should approximately settle out about 425°F. Cook
for SIX minutes then flip for 4 minutes for rare, 5 for medium, and for
medium well. Make sure you're using a large spatula, not some cheap-ass
grocery store thing.

Enjoy your delicious burgers. I promise these will be the best burgers
ever - prepare as above, top with roasted red peppers (prepared fresh) and
Marie's Blue Cheese dressing. This is a restaurant quality meal, I promise.

El Penguini


"Pavel" > wrote in message
news:XysDc.903080$oR5.437202@pd7tw3no...
For the second time in a row, I mixed ground beef, some chopped onions and
seasons. I flatten them and then place them on a hot grill.

I cannot flip the burgers because they always fall apart.
Any idea on what I am doing wrong?

Pavel asked:
> For the second time in a row, I mixed
> ground beef, some chopped onions and
> seasons. I flatten them and then place
> them on a hot grill.
> I cannot flip the burgers because they
> always fall apart. Any idea on what I am
> doing wrong?


I remember a magazine (might have been "Playboy") article I read 30 or
so years ago about why this fancy NYC restaurant (might have been "21")
charged $10 for a hamburger. The owner claimed that it was strictly a
matter of economics but, he stated, the restaurant provided the customer
with an incomparable burger. The recipe followed. The only parts I still
remember have served me well over the years although I'm too lazy to
always have my meat freshly ground; which WAS important to "21". Even
more important, said the recipe, "DON'T OVERHANDLE MEAT!!!". The chefs
at "21" formed the hamburger patty (immediately after the fresh
grinding, no doubt) with only 2 forks. (meat density isn't always a good
thing,my friends). Lastly, also very important, was VERY HOT cooking
surface and flip it only once (although it was permissible to loosen it
with spatula after a couple of minutes on the first side).

Unfortunately, because of their lack of density, these burgers can also
fall apart if not handled with some care. Also, I've found that 2 or 3
hours in the freezer before grilling helps the formed patties defeat the
meat's "muscle memory" than can makes burgers try to turn into meatballs
and that's when you see the worst examples of spatula abuse. DON'T be
squeezin' out the meat juices in an attempt at keeping the burger flat!

Also, I totally agree that onions, cheese, mushrooms, and such are best
prepared separate and applied to the OUTSIDE of the burger. After all,
this isn't a meatloaf. Hell, you're grillin'!!! You can't grill a
meatloaf!! That would be baking.....or maybe roastin"....or......,
remember that barbecued meatloff they used to serve at the Califon
Fireman's Carnival back in the 60's........never did see a proper cooker
there....I'll bet the wives did it in the oven.....but they said it was
BARBECUE!!! ....but that was 40 years ago, we're more sophisticated
now.......who's more sophisticated, barbecuers?.....dunnow,
maybe.............................

But I digress, (sorry 'bout that)..whaddaya expect from a New Jersey guy
on a Webtv. Now Pavel, go forth and make better burgers. Art

Pavel wrote:

> For the second time in a row, I mixed ground beef, some chopped onions and seasons. I flatten them and then place them on a hot grill.
>
> I cannot flip the burgers because they always fall apart.
> Any idea on what I am doing wrong?

Try adding an egg. Egg will help keep it together.

Happy Q'en,
BBQ

Douglas Barber wrote:


> Barbecue is the art of dragging things out with meats that would leave your jaw
> sore if you grilled them and tried to eat them.
>

LOL. Or toothless !!

Happy Q'en,
BBQ

Steve Wertz wrote:

> Yeah - no ground sirloin. 20% fat (80% meat) or more.
> Overhandling the meat doesn't help either. You can't smoosh two
> pieces of meat together and the make a patty out of it. You need
> to start with a ball, in one piece, and then flatten.
>
> I have a Tupperware gizmo from 196y0 or so that smashes hamburgers
> into perfectly shaped burgers, nicely packed. Contains a plunger,
> sleeve, and 8 interlocking burger containers for freezing.
> Anybody else have one?
>
> -sw

Never heard of that tho it sounds handy. I just use two sheets of wax
paper and a light touch. If you want them especially thick, you can put
a slight depression in the middle, hockey-puck-like, to prevent them
from coming off the grill shaped like meatballs

When I've got it, I like to mix in about 1/3 lb ground pork to 2/3 lb
ground beef, or 1/4 lb ground pork 1/4 lb ground veal to 1/2 lb beef,
though this usually results in venial sin against the law which forbids
over-handling...if mixed with the side of a fork it won't be mishandled
too badly...can cut in a little salt (& msg if desired) in the process,
which probably helps retain a little more moisture during grilling.
Wouldn't bother w/the salt unless I were already engaged in mixing
various ground meats.

I agree with the aobve posts. Let the burgers cook longer before
flipping.
Also make sure form them correctly. I've had problems where I folder
over the meat to make a ball and this created a crease which then
split when cooking. I have also heard not to handle the meat too much
other wise it bruises. So its a balance between dense enough to stay
together and not too bruised.

Jesse

"Pavel" > wrote in message
news:XysDc.903080$oR5.437202@pd7tw3no...
For the second time in a row, I mixed ground beef, some chopped onions and
seasons. I flatten them and then place them on a hot grill.

I cannot flip the burgers because they always fall apart.
Any idea on what I am doing wrong?

Yea like everyone else said, put in an egg and don't flip or move them for
the first 5 mins. Some people add a little oatmeal to absorb some of the
fat and keep the burger juicy.

Dirty Harry spicy Burgers:
1/2 onion finely chopped ,
2 cloves chopped garlic,
chiliflakes,
1/2(or more) tsp hot curry powder
lots of chopped banana peppers (add a sweet mild heat),
salt
pepper
little oregano
Worcestershire or soy
egg (if needed)
and 1/4-1/2 cup of parmigesan(sp lol) cheeze
probably a few more things but I can never remember unless I'm staring at
the spice rack...

I also like to grill some whole banana peppers and sliced onion for on
top....oh yea and grill a cheeze kiasar bun....
DH

"Dirty Harry" > wrote in message
news:y0DDc.911469$oR5.769625@pd7tw3no...
>
> "Pavel" > wrote in message
> news:XysDc.903080$oR5.437202@pd7tw3no...
> For the second time in a row, I mixed ground beef, some chopped onions and
> seasons. I flatten them and then place them on a hot grill.
>
> I cannot flip the burgers because they always fall apart.
> Any idea on what I am doing wrong?
>
> Yea like everyone else said, put in an egg and don't flip or move them for
> the first 5 mins. Some people add a little oatmeal to absorb some of the
> fat and keep the burger juicy.
>
> Dirty Harry spicy Burgers:
> 1/2 onion finely chopped ,
> 2 cloves chopped garlic,
> chiliflakes,
> 1/2(or more) tsp hot curry powder
> lots of chopped banana peppers (add a sweet mild heat),
> salt
> pepper
> little oregano
> Worcestershire or soy
> egg (if needed)
> and 1/4-1/2 cup of parmigesan(sp lol) cheeze
> probably a few more things but I can never remember unless I'm staring at
> the spice rack...
>
> I also like to grill some whole banana peppers and sliced onion for on
> top....oh yea and grill a cheeze kiasar bun....
> DH

Go check out my pics on alt.binaries.food posted is called DH Burgers :-)

Dirty Harry wrote:
>> Dirty Harry spicy Burgers:
>> 1/2 onion finely chopped ,
>> 2 cloves chopped garlic,
>> chiliflakes,
>> 1/2(or more) tsp hot curry powder
>> lots of chopped banana peppers (add a sweet mild heat),
>> salt
>> pepper
>> little oregano
>> Worcestershire or soy
>> egg (if needed)
>> and 1/4-1/2 cup of parmigesan(sp lol) cheeze
>> probably a few more things but I can never remember unless I'm
>> staring at the spice rack...

Is this a casserole? LOL

Who cares as long as it tastes good, right?



--

On Sun, 27 Jun 2004 10:50:26 -0500, Steve Wertz
> wrote:


>
>I have a Tupperware gizmo from 196y0 or so that smashes hamburgers
>into perfectly shaped burgers, nicely packed. Contains a plunger,
>sleeve, and 8 interlocking burger containers for freezing.
>Anybody else have one?
>
>-sw

I have, or should say had becauce the pieces have migrated elsewhere,
one of those things. They worked well but the burgers were too small.
My wife make the best burger patties. She see's a pound of hamburger
meet as being sufficient for 2 burgers.

I believe simple is best with a good cheeseburger. Salt/Pepper/Ground
Chuck with enough fat left in to make it all stick together (I like
the 80/20 rule).

"Duwop" > wrote in message
...
> Dirty Harry wrote:
> >> Dirty Harry spicy Burgers:
> >> 1/2 onion finely chopped ,
> >> 2 cloves chopped garlic,
> >> chiliflakes,
> >> 1/2(or more) tsp hot curry powder
> >> lots of chopped banana peppers (add a sweet mild heat),
> >> salt
> >> pepper
> >> little oregano
> >> Worcestershire or soy
> >> egg (if needed)
> >> and 1/4-1/2 cup of parmigesan(sp lol) cheeze
> >> probably a few more things but I can never remember unless I'm
> >> staring at the spice rack...
>
> Is this a casserole? LOL
>
> Who cares as long as it tastes good, right?

Yep, and it sure tastes a lot better then plain grilled meat...I'd even say
it tastes good ;-) I'd just goto Rotten Ronnies if I wanted a plain burger.
Takes about an exrta 30 seconds to add all that...

"BKahuna" > wrote in message
news || On Sun, 27 Jun 2004 10:50:26 -0500, Steve Wertz
|| > wrote:
||
||
|||
||| I have a Tupperware gizmo from 196y0 or so that smashes hamburgers
||| into perfectly shaped burgers, nicely packed. Contains a plunger,
||| sleeve, and 8 interlocking burger containers for freezing.
||| Anybody else have one?
|||
||| -sw
||
|| I have, or should say had becauce the pieces have migrated elsewhere,
|| one of those things. They worked well but the burgers were too
|| small. My wife make the best burger patties. She see's a pound of
|| hamburger meet as being sufficient for 2 burgers.
||
|| I believe simple is best with a good cheeseburger.
|| Salt/Pepper/Ground Chuck with enough fat left in to make it all
|| stick together (I like the 80/20 rule).

I had one of those gizmos but they're too small.

JD

Steve Wertz wrote:
> On Sun, 27 Jun 2004 01:07:09 -0400, " BOB" >
> wrote:
>
>> Pavel wrote:
>>> For the second time in a row, I mixed ground beef, some chopped onions and
>>> seasons. I flatten them and then place them on a hot grill.
>>>
>>> I cannot flip the burgers because they always fall apart.
>>> Any idea on what I am doing wrong?
>>
>> First guess is that the ground beef you are using is too lean. Try more fat
>> content, or add an egg to the mix to bind it together.
>
> Yeah - no ground sirloin. 20% fat (80% meat) or more.
> Overhandling the meat doesn't help either. You can't smoosh two
> pieces of meat together and the make a patty out of it. You need
> to start with a ball, in one piece, and then flatten.
>
> I have a Tupperware gizmo from 196y0 or so that smashes hamburgers
> into perfectly shaped burgers, nicely packed. Contains a plunger,
> sleeve, and 8 interlocking burger containers for freezing.
> Anybody else have one?
>
> -sw

My Mom had one of those...didn't really use it much. Don't know what happened
to it.

BOB

(Toni and Art) wrote in message news:<23458-40DED3FD-> Unfortunately, because of their lack of density, these burgers can also
> fall apart if not handled with some care. Also, I've found that 2 or 3
> hours in the freezer before grilling helps the formed patties defeat the
> meat's "muscle memory" than can makes burgers try to turn into meatballs
> and that's when you see the worst examples of spatula abuse. DON'T be
> squeezin' out the meat juices in an attempt at keeping the burger flat!
>

One trick to keep the burger flat is to make the center of the patty
thinner than the edges. When it cooks the middle will plump up some
and it will be an even thickness. If you start with it flat when its
raw then when it plumps in the middle during cooking you get the oval
shape.

Jesse

In article >,
lid says...
> I have a Tupperware gizmo from 196y0 or so that smashes hamburgers
> into perfectly shaped burgers, nicely packed. Contains a plunger,
> sleeve, and 8 interlocking burger containers for freezing.
> Anybody else have one?
>
>
Hey, I have that one too! I love it. I've got a batch of salmon burgers
in my freezer as we speak. But I seem to have lost a couple of the
burger containers - I only have six.
--
Donna
A pessimist believes all women are bad. An optimist hopes they are.

"Steve Wertz" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 27 Jun 2004 01:07:09 -0400, " BOB" >
> wrote:
>
> >Pavel wrote:
> >> For the second time in a row, I mixed ground beef, some chopped onions and
> >> seasons. I flatten them and then place them on a hot grill.
> >>
> >> I cannot flip the burgers because they always fall apart.
> >> Any idea on what I am doing wrong?
> >
> >First guess is that the ground beef you are using is too lean. Try more fat
> >content, or add an egg to the mix to bind it together.
>
> Yeah - no ground sirloin. 20% fat (80% meat) or more.
> Overhandling the meat doesn't help either. You can't smoosh two
> pieces of meat together and the make a patty out of it. You need
> to start with a ball, in one piece, and then flatten.
>
> I have a Tupperware gizmo from 196y0 or so that smashes hamburgers
> into perfectly shaped burgers, nicely packed. Contains a plunger,
> sleeve, and 8 interlocking burger containers for freezing.
> Anybody else have one?
>
> -sw

I don't know how old ours is but SWMBO had it when we got married 25 yrs. ago.
Work great though I think it's a little small in diameter.

I do use 90/10 sirloin (not by my choice) and it works fine. Try a couple of
things:

- As Steve mentioned, roll the meat into a ball and then squish it flat.

- I sometimes put them on a plate in the freezer for a while before cooking.

- Put them on a very hot grill and don't poke around with them for several
minutes. And _never_ squish them flat.

- When you do think it's time to flip poke at one side gently first. If it
doesn't pull loose from the grill it's not ready and the grill may not be too
hot.

_________
ht_redneck

"Pavel" <newsgroup @hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<XysDc.903080$oR5.437202@pd7tw3no>...
> For the second time in a row, I mixed ground beef, some chopped onions
> and seasons. I flatten them and then place them on a hot grill.
>
> I cannot flip the burgers because they always fall apart.
> Any idea on what I am doing wrong?

Flip only once, no matter how much you like to play with the food.

Karen

I have another idea. Instead of using a spatula, try using a pair of tongs.
This will prevent the "dropping" of the pattie when turning to cook the
other side. Even a pattie prone to separating will benefit from this
gentler approach.


" BOB" > wrote in message
...
> Steve Wertz wrote:
> > On Sun, 27 Jun 2004 01:07:09 -0400, " BOB" >
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Pavel wrote:
> >>> For the second time in a row, I mixed ground beef, some chopped onions
and
> >>> seasons. I flatten them and then place them on a hot grill.
> >>>
> >>> I cannot flip the burgers because they always fall apart.
> >>> Any idea on what I am doing wrong?
> >>
> >> First guess is that the ground beef you are using is too lean. Try
more fat
> >> content, or add an egg to the mix to bind it together.
> >
> > Yeah - no ground sirloin. 20% fat (80% meat) or more.
> > Overhandling the meat doesn't help either. You can't smoosh two
> > pieces of meat together and the make a patty out of it. You need
> > to start with a ball, in one piece, and then flatten.
> >
> > I have a Tupperware gizmo from 196y0 or so that smashes hamburgers
> > into perfectly shaped burgers, nicely packed. Contains a plunger,
> > sleeve, and 8 interlocking burger containers for freezing.
> > Anybody else have one?
> >
> > -sw
>
> My Mom had one of those...didn't really use it much. Don't know what
happened
> to it.
>
> BOB
>
>

"L. Cook" > wrote in message
...
> I have another idea. Instead of using a spatula, try using a pair of tongs.
> This will prevent the "dropping" of the pattie when turning to cook the
> other side. Even a pattie prone to separating will benefit from this
> gentler approach.

You know, I just finished some chili burgers for dinner and noticed when I
scooped them out of the pan I didn't run the spatula all the way under the
pattie. Could also be part of the problem.


Tyler

On Sun, 27 Jun 2004 05:03:51 +0000, Pavel wrote:

> For the second time in a row, I mixed ground beef, some chopped onions and seasons. I flatten them and then place them on a hot grill.
>
> I cannot flip the burgers because they always fall apart.
> Any idea on what I am doing wrong?

You have to work the meat in your hands to compact it (this takes time and
makes your hands numb) and/or 2 egg whites (egg whites add no
flavor/colesterol) and if you want to get fancy garlic, onion powder and
maybe a little wostershire (powders add no moisture which limits coherance).

My 2Bits.

IMHO, this is exactly the wrong answer. Handling hamburger meat makes it
tough. This isn't about density, this is about allowing all those little
protein chains to have a meat and greet. They hook up with each other and
make for nice, tough burgers. This is why we don't like to eat the
pre-formed burgers from the store, and why McDonald's hamburgers don't taste
like anything.

P
"Paracelsus" > wrote in message
ies.com...
> On Sun, 27 Jun 2004 05:03:51 +0000, Pavel wrote:
>
> > For the second time in a row, I mixed ground beef, some chopped onions
and seasons. I flatten them and then place them on a hot grill.
> >
> > I cannot flip the burgers because they always fall apart.
> > Any idea on what I am doing wrong?
>
> You have to work the meat in your hands to compact it (this takes time and
> makes your hands numb) and/or 2 egg whites (egg whites add no
> flavor/colesterol) and if you want to get fancy garlic, onion powder and
> maybe a little wostershire (powders add no moisture which limits
coherance).
>
> My 2Bits.

On Sat, 03 Jul 2004 12:40:44 +0000, El Penguini wrote:

> IMHO, this is exactly the wrong answer. Handling hamburger meat makes it
> tough. This isn't about density, this is about allowing all those little
> protein chains to have a meat and greet. They hook up with each other and
> make for nice, tough burgers. This is why we don't like to eat the
> pre-formed burgers from the store, and why McDonald's hamburgers don't taste
> like anything.
>
> P
> "Paracelsus" > wrote in message
> ies.com...
>> On Sun, 27 Jun 2004 05:03:51 +0000, Pavel wrote:
>>
>> > For the second time in a row, I mixed ground beef, some chopped onions
> and seasons. I flatten them and then place them on a hot grill.
>> >
>> > I cannot flip the burgers because they always fall apart.
>> > Any idea on what I am doing wrong?
>>
>> You have to work the meat in your hands to compact it (this takes time and
>> makes your hands numb) and/or 2 egg whites (egg whites add no
>> flavor/colesterol) and if you want to get fancy garlic, onion powder and
>> maybe a little wostershire (powders add no moisture which limits
> coherance).
>>
>> My 2Bits.

I like `em with a little "chewiness" so they are'nt like sloppy joes sans
the sauce.

If you like meat with a bit of chewiness, how do you feel about chuck roast
grilled on a grill? My wife thinks I am out of my mind, but it is, after
all, the most flavorful cut of meat, even though it is tough! I put that
puppy on a plate, stick a good movie on, and I am ready to rock.
"Paracelsus" > wrote in message
ies.com...
> On Sat, 03 Jul 2004 12:40:44 +0000, El Penguini wrote:
>
> > IMHO, this is exactly the wrong answer. Handling hamburger meat makes
it
> > tough. This isn't about density, this is about allowing all those
little
> > protein chains to have a meat and greet. They hook up with each other
and
> > make for nice, tough burgers. This is why we don't like to eat the
> > pre-formed burgers from the store, and why McDonald's hamburgers don't
taste
> > like anything.
> >
> > P
> > "Paracelsus" > wrote in message
> > ies.com...
> >> On Sun, 27 Jun 2004 05:03:51 +0000, Pavel wrote:
> >>
> >> > For the second time in a row, I mixed ground beef, some chopped
onions
> > and seasons. I flatten them and then place them on a hot grill.
> >> >
> >> > I cannot flip the burgers because they always fall apart.
> >> > Any idea on what I am doing wrong?
> >>
> >> You have to work the meat in your hands to compact it (this takes time
and
> >> makes your hands numb) and/or 2 egg whites (egg whites add no
> >> flavor/colesterol) and if you want to get fancy garlic, onion powder
and
> >> maybe a little wostershire (powders add no moisture which limits
> > coherance).
> >>
> >> My 2Bits.
>
> I like `em with a little "chewiness" so they are'nt like sloppy joes sans
> the sauce.