I looked at my Costco today. I don't remember what they called it, but
it sure wasn't a packer cut.

I know a packer cut contains more meat. Is it cheaper per pound? Why do
you guys find it so desirable with respect to e.g. what my Costco sells?

Grant

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Grant Erwin wrote:
> I looked at my Costco today. I don't remember what they called it, but
> it sure wasn't a packer cut.
>
> I know a packer cut contains more meat. Is it cheaper per pound? Why
> do you guys find it so desirable with respect to e.g. what my Costco
> sells?

Grant, have you had a chance to read the BBQ FAQ we use? A lot of basic to
professional information is covered.
http://www.eaglequest.com/~bbq/faq2/toc.html

Packer cut, or IMPS standard 120 brisket contains all three muscle groups
which make up the brisket: the flat, the point, and the deckle (which
despite what some believe is NOT the same as the point). The entire brisket
is more forgiving because it provides an abundance of fat and collagen that
helps the brisket cook without excessive drying. I love the favor of the
point and the meatiness of the flat. To me, there is very little to complain
about when I have both on my plate.
--
Dave
www.davebbq.com

Sqwertz wrote:
> On Thu, 24 Jan 2008 06:33:24 GMT, Dave Bugg wrote:
>
>> Packer cut, or IMPS standard 120 brisket contains all three muscle
>> groups which make up the brisket: the flat, the point, and the
>> deckle (which despite what some believe is NOT the same as the
>> point).
>
> I've cut a few briskets open in my time and I've never identified
> a third muscle. Where/what is it?

I guess you can't really call it a muscle 'group'. It's the muscle and
attached fat that connect the flat to the rib cage. It's usually a bunch of
gloppy looking meat-stuff. I just trim it off. A lot of times in the retail
outlets it's already been trimmed, although I've run across it on birsket
periodically at Sam's and Albertsons. It's always there from the deliveries
I get from Food Services of America.
--
Dave
www.davebbq.com

On Jan 24, 12:33*am, "Dave Bugg" > wrote:

>The entire brisket
> is more forgiving because it provides an abundance of fat and collagen that
> helps the brisket cook without excessive drying. I love the favor of the
> point and the meatiness of the flat. To me, there is very little to complain
> about when I have both on my plate.

Well.... I don't know how that could have been said better!

In thrity years of cooking briskets (just as a hobby for me, my
buddies, family get togethers, etc.), I have never cooked a flat by
itself. I am not sure; there may be a law of some sort here in Texas
that doesn't allow that.

Seriously, the only time I see people buy the flat by itself around
here is when they fix it like a roast in their oven.

Robert

Nunya Bidnits wrote:

> I've cooked flats that were just plain delicious, and wonderfully
> textured.

I agree, and I do quite well with flats. But I always specify untrimmed so
that I can decide how much fat I want or need to trim.
--
Dave
www.davebbq.com

Nunya Bidnits wrote:
> "Dave Bugg" > wrote in message
> news:%G6mj.6149$5h6.2893@trndny09...
>> Nunya Bidnits wrote:
>>
>>> I've cooked flats that were just plain delicious, and wonderfully
>>> textured.
>>
>> I agree, and I do quite well with flats. But I always specify
>> untrimmed so that I can decide how much fat I want or need to trim.
>> --
>> Dave
>> www.davebbq.com
>>
> Hey Dave, and others with commercial barbecue operations, I'm curious
> whether you also specify a better grade, and/or variety of beef such
> as CAB, Hereford, or Charolais, or a location or feed specific
> branding program beef such as Amana. I'm sure that such options would
> get expensive in a commercial operation, so I would also expect it to
> be a balancing act between cost and quality at a commercial level. On
> the other hand much depends on skill and processing methods, so I
> wonder whether such options benefit a commercial operation, and what
> your approach is.

For brisket I'm not to concerned about the 'boutique' brands, I just specify
no lower than 'select' and 'no trim'.
--
Dave
www.davebbq.com

"Nunya Bidnits" > wrote in message
...
>
>>
> Hey Dave, and others with commercial barbecue operations, I'm curious
> whether you also specify a better grade, and/or variety of beef such as
> CAB,
> Hereford, or Charolais, or a location or feed specific branding program
> beef
> such as Amana. I'm sure that such options would get expensive in a
> commercial operation, so I would also expect it to be a balancing act
> between cost and quality at a commercial level. On the other hand much
> depends on skill and processing methods, so I wonder whether such options
> benefit a commercial operation, and what your approach is.
>
> MartyB in KC
>


CAB is what we prefer--although sometimes hard to find in the North Country.
Some packers market an Angus brand but it isn't the same(imo) as CAB that
always grades to the very top of the choice range! Whenever we make the
trip to KC always have cases of brisket to pick up at Scavuzzos(meat
wholesaler).
Ufortunately our contest brisket is never as good as it should be it seems--
Buzz

On 24-Jan-2008, "Dave Bugg" > wrote:

> Grant Erwin wrote:
> > I looked at my Costco today. I don't remember what they called it, but
> > it sure wasn't a packer cut.
> >
> > I know a packer cut contains more meat. Is it cheaper per pound? Why
> > do you guys find it so desirable with respect to e.g. what my Costco
> > sells?
>
> Grant, have you had a chance to read the BBQ FAQ we use? A lot of basic to
>
> professional information is covered.
> http://www.eaglequest.com/~bbq/faq2/toc.html
>
> Packer cut, or IMPS standard 120 brisket contains all three muscle groups
> which make up the brisket: the flat, the point, and the deckle (which
> despite what some believe is NOT the same as the point). The entire
> brisket
> is more forgiving because it provides an abundance of fat and collagen
> that
> helps the brisket cook without excessive drying. I love the favor of the
> point and the meatiness of the flat. To me, there is very little to
> complain
> about when I have both on my plate.
> --
> Dave

I for one appreciate the effort you put into posting a concise explanation
dave. I still ain't sure what the "deckle" is, but I do know that a whole
packer cut cooks out a whole lot more flavorful then a flat by itself.

I would like to make a point though. Not everyone that aspires to making
barbecue will ever make outstanding barbecue. I do believe that just
about anybody that takes it seriously can rise to a skill level that will
attract friends and neighbors at the first hint of smoke.

Just like not every driver is going to run in the top five at Daytona or
Indy, not every pitmaster is going to cook with the top five. And it's
not a matter of money. Unlimited money is not a guarantee of winning
races or cooking outstanding barbecue. It takes desire, some inherent
skill and a lot of practice.
--
Brick(Youth is wasted on young people)

On 24-Jan-2008, " > wrote:

> On Jan 24, 12:33*am, "Dave Bugg" > wrote:
>
> >The entire brisket
> > is more forgiving because it provides an abundance of fat and collagen
> > that
> > helps the brisket cook without excessive drying. I love the favor of the
> > point and the meatiness of the flat. To me, there is very little to
> > complain
> > about when I have both on my plate.
>
> Well.... I don't know how that could have been said better!
>
> In thrity years of cooking briskets (just as a hobby for me, my
> buddies, family get togethers, etc.), I have never cooked a flat by
> itself. I am not sure; there may be a law of some sort here in Texas
> that doesn't allow that.
>
> Seriously, the only time I see people buy the flat by itself around
> here is when they fix it like a roast in their oven.
>
> Robert

Chuckling up my sleeve here. Those excess flats would do well as
corned beef though.

--
Brick(Youth is wasted on young people)

Brick wrote:

> I for one appreciate the effort you put into posting a concise
> explanation dave.

I'm in good company with a lot of you guys :-)
--
Dave
www.davebbq.com

"Nunya Bidnits" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Dave Bugg" > wrote in message
> news:%G6mj.6149$5h6.2893@trndny09...
>> Nunya Bidnits wrote:
>>
>> > I've cooked flats that were just plain delicious, and wonderfully
>> > textured.
>>
>> I agree, and I do quite well with flats. But I always specify untrimmed
>> so
>> that I can decide how much fat I want or need to trim.
>> --
>> Dave
>> www.davebbq.com
>>
> Hey Dave, and others with commercial barbecue operations, I'm curious
> whether you also specify a better grade, and/or variety of beef such as
> CAB,
> Hereford, or Charolais, or a location or feed specific branding program
> beef
> such as Amana. I'm sure that such options would get expensive in a
> commercial operation, so I would also expect it to be a balancing act
> between cost and quality at a commercial level. On the other hand much
> depends on skill and processing methods, so I wonder whether such options
> benefit a commercial operation, and what your approach is.
>
> MartyB in KC
>

I just ordered packer brisket. They sent what they had. Mostly
choice.Occasionally it was CAB. Select cooks up pretty good.
Best brisket I remember was Canadian AA grade.
Smallest full brisket I ever got was 5.02 pounds, biggest was 19.98.
I cooked the little one and made me a sammich out of it<g>
--
James A. "Big Jim" Whitten

www.lazyq.com

Big Jim wrote:

> I cooked the little one and made me a sammich out of it<g>

LOL!!! I know what ya mean :-O

--
Dave
www.davebbq.com

In article <i8dmj.3580$KP3.3071@trnddc04>, Brick says...
>
>
>I would like to make a point though. Not everyone that aspires to making
>barbecue will ever make outstanding barbecue. I do believe that just
>about anybody that takes it seriously can rise to a skill level that will
>attract friends and neighbors at the first hint of smoke.
>
I don't agree that an amateur will "never" make outstanding barbecue. There have
been times that I have made better BBQ than some restaurants or BBQ joints have
put on my plate.

I think of it like professional sports. An amateur will make a few routine
plays, and the occasional great play. The professional will make routine plays
almost 100% of the time, and will make great plays consistently.

My BBQ experience is such that "I" can tell whether or not I've made a good
batch of BBQ, or if I've missed something. Other people who haven't eaten a lot
of BBQ will think that mine is great, but I know it could be better.

I really admire those BBQ cooks that can consistently put outstanding BBQ on a
plate. I'm not there by a long shot--and probably will never be.

But I have made some BBQ that I am very proud of.

Mark
"I love cats. I just can't eat a whole one by myself"

Mark Filice wrote:

> In article <i8dmj.3580$KP3.3071@trnddc04>, Brick says...
>>
>>
>> I would like to make a point though. Not everyone that aspires to
>> making barbecue will ever make outstanding barbecue. I do believe
>> that just about anybody that takes it seriously can rise to a skill
>> level that will attract friends and neighbors at the first hint of
>> smoke.
>>
> I don't agree that an amateur will "never" make outstanding barbecue.

But Brick didn't say that; at least I'm not seeing it from the attribution
you provided. He said 'not *everyone* that aspires to making barbecue will
ever make outstanding barbecue.
--
Dave
www.davebbq.com

On 25-Jan-2008, Mark Filice > wrote:

> In article <i8dmj.3580$KP3.3071@trnddc04>, Brick says...
> >
> >
> >I would like to make a point though. Not everyone that aspires to making
> >barbecue will ever make outstanding barbecue. I do believe that just
> >about anybody that takes it seriously can rise to a skill level that will
> >attract friends and neighbors at the first hint of smoke.
> >
> I don't agree that an amateur will "never" make outstanding barbecue.
> There have
> been times that I have made better BBQ than some restaurants or BBQ joints
> have
> put on my plate.

But, but, but, I didn't even mention the word "amateur". And by the way,
the
word "amateur" is derived from the latin "amat" (to love). To assume a
position
that one who does something for the love of it is automatically less capable

then someone who does it for money is ludicrous. There's a lot of people in
this group that consistently make better BBQ then most restaurants serve. Do
they "ALL" produce "OUTSTANDING" BBQ? What's the definition of out-
standing? My definition of "Outstanding BBQ" is provided by the people like
yourself that eat it and comment on it. Lots of BBQ restaurants are
mentioned
here in the group. Very few rise above honorable mention let alone
outstanding,
yet they are all professionals who do it for a living.

>
> I think of it like professional sports. An amateur will make a few routine
> plays, and the occasional great play. The professional will make routine
> plays
> almost 100% of the time, and will make great plays consistently.

Your statement says that all professional baseball and football players make
faultless routine plays almost 100% of the time. You have to be joking or
at least horribly mislead. What actually happens is that about 10% or so
of the players make faultless plays almost 100% of the time and just two
or three outstanding individuals consistently make great plays. That's why
the names of Lou Gehrig, Willy Mays, Ted Williams and Babe Ruth stand
out in everyone's memory and the thousands of rank and file players are
long forgotten. Who remembers Johnny Loujac, the most feared college
quarterback of the '50's. He was just a college boy, certainly not a
professional. And then there were the "Four Horsemen", neither were
they professionals.

>
> My BBQ experience is such that "I" can tell whether or not I've made a
> good
> batch of BBQ, or if I've missed something. Other people who haven't eaten
> a lot
> of BBQ will think that mine is great, but I know it could be better.

I'd bet that even friends that have eaten a lot of BBQ would prefer yours
over
most of what they have sampled in the past. Unfortunately very few people
who make BBQ for the love of it, go into the business of selling it for a
living.
Consequently folks like yourself and others in the group are always going to
be known for BBQ that's a pleasure to eat. Hey, it ain't bad to be tenth in
a
field of a hundred.

>
> I really admire those BBQ cooks that can consistently put outstanding BBQ
> on a
> plate. I'm not there by a long shot--and probably will never be.
>
> But I have made some BBQ that I am very proud of.

I've cooked for about 25 years but I just got started cooking BBQ
in May of 2003. I made some real crap the first couple of years. I
use an offset for some perverse reason and it gave me fits for awhile
until I let it have it's way and allowed it to do the cooking without
interference. I'm going to cook a whole pork shoulder, a large butt
and a rack of spares tomorrow. I don't expect it to be "Outstanding",
but at the same time, I don't expect it to be less then very good.

You know what good 'Q' is and you've already made some. I think
a reasonable goal to shoot for is "Very Good" 'Q' everytime you
fire up your cooker. If you're not already there, you're probably
closer then you think. How do I know? Because you're an
"Amateur". You do it for the love of it and mediocre is unacceptable.

>
> Mark
> "I love cats. I just can't eat a whole one by myself"

And that's all I have to say about that.

--
Brick(Youth is wasted on young people)

In article <8lzmj.71$e46.18@trnddc04>, Brick says...
>
>
>Your statement says that all professional baseball and football players make
>faultless routine plays almost 100% of the time. You have to be joking or
>at least horribly mislead. What actually happens is that about 10% or so
>of the players make faultless plays almost 100% of the time and just two
>or three outstanding individuals consistently make great plays. That's why
>the names of Lou Gehrig, Willy Mays, Ted Williams and Babe Ruth stand
>out in everyone's memory and the thousands of rank and file players are
>long forgotten. Who remembers Johnny Loujac, the most feared college
>quarterback of the '50's. He was just a college boy, certainly not a
>professional. And then there were the "Four Horsemen", neither were
>they professionals.
>

I'm a big baseball fan. According to the MLB Fielding Statistics, even the worst
fielding team had a percentage of .977 in 2007.

See:

http://tinyurl.com/ytu2lw

The worst fielding team makes the routine and/or amazing play 97.7% of the time.

I'm a SF Giants fan 8-( and watching Omar Vizquel play shortstop is a thing of
beauty. He consistently makes almost all of the routine plays (well in excess of
the average 97.7%) and shows up on ESPN highlights consistently with his amazing
plays. He may make the HOF someday--time will tell.

Willie Mays was the most complete ballplayer I've ever seen--and my childhood
hero. One of his amazing traits was the ability to know where a ball was going
to land as it left the bat. He would simply run to that spot, and then make the
catch. This ability allowed him to make plays look routine that other fielders
wouldn't have even been close to making.

Jerry Rice of 49ers fame had the same ability. He knew where the ball was going
to land, and would run to that spot and catch the football. This trait gave him
an enormous advantage over the defender who was trying to watch Rice and the
football at the same time.

As far as my BBQing goes, all is well. Yesterday, I smoked 2 boneless pork
shoulders for about 11 hours and they turned out great! I'm smoking some St.
Louis ribs for Super Bowl Sunday's party, and will also have sausages ready to
eat.

Mark
"Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't"





ttp://tinyurl.com/ytu2lw
That means that 97.7% of the time they make the routine and/or amazing play. I'm
a SF Giants fan 8-( and watching Omar Vizquel play shortstop is a thing of
beauty. He consistently makes almost all of the routine plays (well in excess of
97%) and shows up on ESPN highlights consistently with his amazing plays.

Willie Mays was the most complete ballplayer I've ever seen. One of his amazing
feats was the ability to know where a ball was going to land as it left the bat.
He would simply run to that spot, and then make the catch.

Jerry Rice of 49ers fame had the same ability. He knew where the ball was going
to land, and would run to that spot and catch the football.