Baking (rec.food.baking) For bakers, would-be bakers, and fans and consumers of breads, pastries, cakes, pies, cookies, crackers, bagels, and other items commonly found in a bakery. Includes all methods of preparation, both conventional and not.

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Old 14-10-2003, 05:15 AM
shipwreck
 
Posts: n/a
Default Making Caramel...question about using butter or not

I tried to make a caramel by boiling sugar and water. What I got was
just boiled sugar and water. A clear solution that never turned
brown.

Then, I mixed 1/2 stick butter with the sugar with some water, and
got...caramel.

However, in looking up other recipes calling for caramel, it's stated
to just boil sugar and water.

Thus, my question is, can you get caramel just from boiling sugar and
water?

Thanks, Gary

  #2 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 14-10-2003, 05:45 AM
Hartmut W. Kuntze
 
Posts: n/a
Default Making Caramel...question about using butter or not

shipwreck wrote:
I tried to make a caramel by boiling sugar and water. What I got was
just boiled sugar and water. A clear solution that never turned
brown.
=20
Then, I mixed 1/2 stick butter with the sugar with some water, and
got...caramel.
=20
However, in looking up other recipes calling for caramel, it's stated
to just boil sugar and water.
=20
Thus, my question is, can you get caramel just from boiling sugar and
water?
=20
Thanks, Gary



Of course Gary. It just has to boil all the water away and reach=20
temperature.

145 o C =3D 293 o F =3D 115 o R

--=20
Sincerly,

C=3D=A6-)=A7 H. W. Hans Kuntze, CMC, S.g.K. (_o_)
http://www.cmcchef.com ,
"Don't cry because it's over, Smile because it Happened"
_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/

  #3 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 14-10-2003, 11:39 PM
Alex Rast
 
Posts: n/a
Default Making Caramel...question about using butter or not

at Tue, 14 Oct 2003 04:15:35 GMT in [email protected]
4ax.com, (shipwreck) wrote :

I tried to make a caramel by boiling sugar and water. What I got was
just boiled sugar and water. A clear solution that never turned
brown.

Then, I mixed 1/2 stick butter with the sugar with some water, and
got...caramel.

However, in looking up other recipes calling for caramel, it's stated
to just boil sugar and water.

Thus, my question is, can you get caramel just from boiling sugar and
water?


It depends on what you want in a caramel. If you want the soft, smooth
caramel that typically has a buttery flavour and that you cut into cubes,
then you want the type with butter added. Butter yields a richer, silkier
kind of caramel.

If, OTOH, you want the harder, chewy caramel you often use for coating
things, or that you cut into strips, then the sugar/water method is the way
to go. You need to boil it for a while, because the objective is to drive
out all the water. So you just wait while it boils (and it will boil with
great ferocity) and then starts to change colour. Take it off when it's
just a little less brown than what you want. Pour it *immediately* because
it hardens fast. Also, as soon as you've poured and spread or coated, fill
the pot with warm water or you'll have a sticky mess to remove from it.


--
Alex Rast

(remove d., .7, not, and .NOSPAM to reply)
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Old 15-10-2003, 12:18 PM
Davida Chazan - The Chocolate Lady
 
Posts: n/a
Default Making Caramel...question about using butter or not

(Please NOTE: My correct e-mail address is in my Signature) On Tue, 14
Oct 2003 22:39:48 -0000, during the rec.food.baking Community News
Flash (Alex Rast) reported:

at Tue, 14 Oct 2003 04:15:35 GMT in [email protected]
4ax.com,
(shipwreck) wrote :

I tried to make a caramel by boiling sugar and water. What I got was
just boiled sugar and water. A clear solution that never turned
brown.

Then, I mixed 1/2 stick butter with the sugar with some water, and
got...caramel.

However, in looking up other recipes calling for caramel, it's stated
to just boil sugar and water.

Thus, my question is, can you get caramel just from boiling sugar and
water?


It depends on what you want in a caramel. If you want the soft, smooth
caramel that typically has a buttery flavour and that you cut into cubes,
then you want the type with butter added. Butter yields a richer, silkier
kind of caramel.

If, OTOH, you want the harder, chewy caramel you often use for coating
things, or that you cut into strips, then the sugar/water method is the way
to go. You need to boil it for a while, because the objective is to drive
out all the water. So you just wait while it boils (and it will boil with
great ferocity) and then starts to change colour. Take it off when it's
just a little less brown than what you want. Pour it *immediately* because
it hardens fast. Also, as soon as you've poured and spread or coated, fill
the pot with warm water or you'll have a sticky mess to remove from it.


I've seen chefs on TV do the hard one without adding any water to the
sugar at all. Perhaps that was the mistake here - adding water to the
sugar for melting stage, which will only give you a sugar syrup and
not a caramel. Adding butter or water after its liquid and brown will
change the consistency for the type of use you want.

(And add no water if you want to make spun caramel, just cool it down
a bit by putting the pan into a bigger pan with cold water for about 2
seconds.)

--
Davida Chazan (The Chocolate Lady)
davida at jdc dot org dot il
~*~*~*~*~*~
"What you see before you, my friend, is the result of a lifetime of
chocolate."
--Katharine Hepburn (May 12, 1907 - June 29, 2003)
~*~*~*~*~*~
Links to my published poetry -
http://davidachazan.homestead.com/
~*~*~*~*~*~
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Old 15-10-2003, 07:11 PM
Eric Jorgensen
 
Posts: n/a
Default Making Caramel...question about using butter or not

On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 13:18:47 +0200
Davida Chazan - The Chocolate Lady wrote:


I've seen chefs on TV do the hard one without adding any water to the
sugar at all. Perhaps that was the mistake here - adding water to the
sugar for melting stage, which will only give you a sugar syrup and
not a caramel. Adding butter or water after its liquid and brown will
change the consistency for the type of use you want.



There's also flash carmelization.

For some reason my mother decided years ago she needed to master the
art of flash carmelization. And then after she had, didn't bother with
it again. But i was present for many of her attempts.

Basically, it depended on having a large cast iron skillet hotter than
the sun, and having very quick hands.

She'd wait until the pan was just hot enough, throw the dry sugar into
it while swirling the pan. the sugar would make it about half way around
the pan before turning liquid, and before it had gone full circle she
was scooping it out into a cooler pan. The sugar was in the pan maybe
half a second. It was a sight to see.

Of course, she also made several pans full of black carbon ash before
she got the hang of it.

- Eric


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Old 17-10-2003, 02:46 AM
Chef Riggy
 
Posts: n/a
Default Making Caramel...question about using butter or not

Isn't 145C a little cool for caramel? I mean, that's like soft crack.
Caramel is hotter than hard crack, and ranges from 160C for light caramel
to about 190C for dark caramel. (well over 300F).

The book is out in the car, and my happy butt is sitting here after a
10-hour shift, so I will refer you to your copy of Cookwise by Shirley
Corriher, pp.422-25 for the physics, and a candy thermometer for the temps.
(I just made 2 batches of caramel less than 3 hours ago using one, so I am
positive of the temps in C). "Caramel" starts at 160C.

Butter caramel, you can or not, it's up to you. Corriher says butter caramel
is harder to make. Maybe there's something there I haven't learned yet, but
I've not had trouble with mine (probably just ignorant of any trickiness so
luck just plays out).

When you start with the wet method--sugar and water--it is easier to control
the rate at which the sugar heats up. Light caramel will be more brittle
when cooled than will dark caramel, and the dark caramel will absorb more
moisture from the air due to the greater quantities of fructose. Anyway,
before the sugars start to caramelize, the water will all boil off leaving
you with only melted sucrose.

I do a type of butter caramel--toffee--by putting heavy cream, sweet butter,
and sugar in a pot and cooking it to color all together. The whey from the
butter and cream all evaporate before it's done, and it comes out like the
center of a Heath bar. I break it up into bits with a mezzaluna then fold it
into coffee ice-cream. Yum! (For the ice-cream, I steep decaf grounds in
with the cream in the first step, add cocoa before liaison and finish
normally).

Anyway, for a chewy caramel, cook the sugar (using that $15 candy
thermometer) to the desired darkness (the darker, the softer, so go
lighter), and then add some heavy cream off the fire a little at a time,
letting the whey steam off. And be careful of splatters! It will spit and
sputter and hiss for awhile, and even double in volume--this is normal. Put
a drop onto a small something and stick it in the fridge to cool. Once cool,
taste it for texture. If it wants to pull fillings out, add a little more
cream. Too much cream and you have a caramel sauce.

Have fun, I am bushed.

"Hartmut W. Kuntze" wrote in message
s.com...
shipwreck wrote:
I tried to make a caramel by boiling sugar and water. What I got was
just boiled sugar and water. A clear solution that never turned
brown.

Then, I mixed 1/2 stick butter with the sugar with some water, and
got...caramel.

However, in looking up other recipes calling for caramel, it's stated
to just boil sugar and water.

Thus, my question is, can you get caramel just from boiling sugar and
water?

Thanks, Gary



Of course Gary. It just has to boil all the water away and reach
temperature.

145 o C = 293 o F = 115 o R

--
Sincerly,

C=-) H. W. Hans Kuntze, CMC, S.g.K. (_o_)
http://www.cmcchef.com ,
"Don't cry because it's over, Smile because it Happened"
_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/


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Old 17-10-2003, 04:00 AM
H. W. Hans Kuntze
 
Posts: n/a
Default Making Caramel...question about using butter or not

Chef Riggy wrote:
Isn't 145=B0C a little cool for caramel? I mean, that's like soft crac=

k.
Caramel is hotter than hard crack, and ranges from 160=B0C for light ca=

ramel
to about 190=B0C for dark caramel. (well over 300=B0F).


No, there are various stages of caramel and it has to do with, the=20
boiling away of moisture, conversion of the sugar, so it does not=20
recrystallize and secondarily,color.
It starts clear, used for pouring, blowing or spinning and ends with=20
couleur, for coloring. Anything beyond is carbon.

145 is the beginning of caramel, clear, the end of hard crack.

Since there is so much residual heat remaining, seconds count, you=20
will have to remove it from the fire at a slightly lower temp,=20
otherwise you have burnt sugar, regardless if you set the pot in=20
water (good luck and good accident coverage) or not.

Unfortunately I have the sugartemps only in german from the pastry=20
chefs handbook, but thermometers work the same the world over.

Also, caramel has nothing to do with butter or cream, it is just a=20
stage when boiling sugar, used for many things and can have color or=20
not and butter and/or cream added for some candies/sauces, etc.

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D REZKONV-Rezept - RezkonvSuite v0.96f

Titel: ZUCKER - KOCHGRADE - VERWENDUNG - INFO
Kategorien: Zucker, Wei=DF, Raffinade
Menge: 1 Info

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D QUELLE =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Hermann Gr=FCner
Fachw=F6rterbuch der K=FCche
Erfasst : *RK* 16.05.01
von Micha Eppendorf
Formatiert von:
H.W.Hans Kuntze, CMC

Menge nach Rezept

Zuckerkochen: Beim Zuckerkochen werden die Zuckerkristalle unter
Einwirkung von W=E4rme in Waser gel=F6st. Unreinheiten setzen sich am
Rand des Kochgeschirrs ab und werden mit einem Pinsel entfernt.
Diesen Vorgang nennt man L=E4utern. man erh=E4lt L=E4uterzucker. Wird die=

Zuckerl=F6sung weiter erhitzt, verdampft nach und nach Wasser, die
L=F6sung wird konzentrierter, bis schlie=DFlich beim Karamel alles
Wasser verdampft ist. Mit steigender Konzentration der L=F6sung steigt
die Temperatur. In der Praxis ist darum die Temperatur der L=F6sung
der Indikator f=FCr die Konzentration. Der Zusammenhang zwischen der
Konzentration der Zuckerl=F6sung und den Verwendungsm=F6glichkeiten wird
in den Zuckerkochgraden ausgedr=FCckt.

oC: Grad Celsius; oF: Grad Fahrenheit; oR: Grad Reaumur

100 oC =3D 212 oF =3D 80 oR Zuckerkochgrad: L=E4uterzucker Verwendung:
:Verd=FCnnen von Glasuren, Herstellen von Fruchteis, Tr=E4nken f=FCr
Torten.

105 oC =3D 221 oF =3D 84 oR Zuckerkochgrad: Schwacher Faden.
:Zwischen Daumen und Zeigefinger Verwendung: Herstellen von
Belegfr=FCchten

108 oC =3D 226,4 oF =3D 86 oR Zuckerkochgrad: Starker Faden
:Verwendung: Glasieren von Dickzuckerfr=FCchten; Kochschokolade

112 oC =3D 223,6 oF =3D 90 oR Zuckerkochgrad: Schwacher Flug
:Verwendung: warme Schaummassen; gebrannte Mandeln

118 oC =3D 244,4 oF =3D 94 oR Zuckerkochgrad: Starker Flug
:Verwendung: Fondantbereitung

125 oC =3D 257 oF =3D 100 oR Zuckerkochgrad: Ballen.
:Zwischen den Fingern l=E4sst sich Zucker ballenartig/kugelartig
formen Verwendung: Bonbonherstellung (Sahnekaramellen)

135 oC =3D 275 oF =3D 108 oR Zuckerkochgrad: Bruch.
:Eingetauchtes Holzst=E4bchen abk=FChlen lassen und biegen. Anhaftender
Zucker bricht Verwendung: Bonbonherstellung

145 oC =3D 293 oF =3D 115 oR Zuckerkochgrad: Karamel.
:Zucker ist noch farblos und klar Verwendung: Gezogener und
geblasener Zucker

148 oC =3D 298 oF =3D 118 oR Zuckerkochgrad: Karamel.
:Zucker ist noch farblos und klar Verwendung: Gegossener Zucker

155+ oC =3D 311 oF =3D 124 oR Zuckerkochgrad: Kul=F6r, Couleur.
:Zucker br=E4unt Verwendung: Mit Wasser abgel=F6scht und losgekocht zur
Farbgebung bei Glasuren und Cremes.

Anmerkung Formatierer: Bei 150 C f=E4ngt der Karamel an, erst farblos,
dann dunkler, das geht bis 190 C, wo der Zucker verkohlt.

Du f=E4ngst immer mit 3 Teilen oder 2 Teilen (Gewicht/Volumen) Zucker
und 1 Teil Wasser an, je nach belieben und eventuell etwas
Zitronens=E4ure oder Weinstein oder Glucose damit der Zucker fl=FCssig
bleibt und nicht wieder nach dem abk=FChlen kristallisiert.

Manche Konditoren m=F6gen 3 zu 1 und manche 2 zu 1.

Dann wird der Zucker gel=E4utert (gekl=E4rt) und Du hast einfachen Syrup.=


Dann wird das auf die verschiedenen Grade eingekocht, bis zum
Caramel.

Ohne das mit der Zuckerwaage (Reaumur) oder dem Thermometer
(Fahrenheit oder Celsius) oder durch beobachten (Augenma=DF und
Handgewicht) zu messen ist nicht m=F6glich.

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D



--=20
Sincerly,

C=3D=A6-)=A7 H. W. Hans Kuntze, CMC, S.g.K. (_o_)
http://www.cmcchef.com ,
"Don't cry because it's over, Smile because it Happened"
_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/

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Old 18-10-2003, 03:52 AM
Nexis
 
Posts: n/a
Default Making Caramel...question about using butter or not


"shipwreck" wrote in message
...
I tried to make a caramel by boiling sugar and water. What I got was
just boiled sugar and water. A clear solution that never turned
brown.

Then, I mixed 1/2 stick butter with the sugar with some water, and
got...caramel.

However, in looking up other recipes calling for caramel, it's stated
to just boil sugar and water.

Thus, my question is, can you get caramel just from boiling sugar and
water?

Thanks, Gary


Well, first, there's two different kinds of caramel.
One is creamy and has dairy. The other is essentially caramelized sugar.
The first one you made, it sounds as if your ratio of water to sugar was too
high and you didn't cook it long enough. The water is only there to control
the rate at which the sugar melts, then caramelizes. All of the water must
evaporate before the sugar caramelizes, so the more water you have, the
longer this will take.

kimberly




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