A
Joe wrote:
> Would be sincerely interested in your best links to that fact about
> decline in bee numbers--I heard that somewhere too.
>

A quick google search found National Geographic's

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...honeybees.html

others are
http://www.pulseplanet.com/archive/Oct04/3287.html

West Virginia Agricultural
http://www.wvu.edu/~agexten/ipm/inse...t/contbees.htm

NAS
http://www4.nas.edu/webcr.nsf/Commit...A?OpenDocument

Should be clear it's a real problem.
> On Fri, 23 Sep 2005 23:48:24 GMT, Beach Runner > wrote:
>
>
>>
>>Joe wrote:
>>
>>>Hi... not being critical of your statement and I agree with most of
>>>what you commented on, but regarding bees, aren't many more-times more
>>>bees being given a chance at living a somewhat 'natural' life [in
>>>terms of free roaming/flying] by the existence of the industry [yes,
>>>I'm aware of the distress/deaths caused by the bee-handling methods]?
>>>Please, no venemous 'Usual Suspect' like responses to my remark-it's
>>>just my opinion.
>>>Also, one thing regarding the sweetener link... I was hoping to see
>>>more of what ingredients and nutrients/amounts are actually in their
>>>products and not just what's not in them. In the dialogue it says
>>>'lacks refined sugars'-does that mean totally or to some degree?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>You could write to Michael Gregor.
>>
>>BTW, there's a declining population of honey bees in this nation from
>>all the use of pesticides.
>>
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>>>On Wed, 21 Sep 2005 13:13:52 GMT, Beach Runner > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Why Honey Is Vegan
>>>>By Michael Greger
>>>>
>>>>http://www.satyamag.com/sept05/greger.html
>>>>
>>>>All the Buzz Without the Bee
>>>>
>>>>What looks like honey, feels like honey, and tastes like honey?
>>>>Suzannes Specialities Just Like Honey Rice Nectar is just like
>>>>honey except for one thing€”it is bee-free. Thats right. This vegan
>>>>€œhoney€� simply astounded the Satya staff. Putting bees out of
>>>>business, this sweetener made from brown rice, chicory, and maple
>>>>syrups, reigns as the new taste of vegan.
>>>>
>>>>Gluten-free and GMO-free, this nectar is the perfect topping for
>>>>pancakes, waffles and oatmeal, and a delightful addition to tea. In
>>>>fact, long- time vegan, Roshni Koshy exclaimed that while shes
>>>>typically a coffee drinker, shes going to switch to drinking tea
>>>>just to flavor it with Just Like Honey. It lacks refined sugars and
>>>>is still better than any other sweetener. Winnie the Pooh wouldnt be
>>>>able to tell the difference and neither will you. Order online at
>>>>www.suzannes-specialties.com. €”S.I.
>>>>Honey hurts more than just bees. It hurts egg-laying hens, crammed in
>>>>battery cages so small they cant spread their wings. It hurts mother
>>>>pigs, languishing for months in steel crates so narrow they cant
>>>>turn around. And the billions of aquatic animals who, pulled from
>>>>filthy aquaculture farms, suffocate to death. All because honey hurts
>>>>our movement.
>>>>
>>>>Its happened to me over and over. Someone will ask me why Im
>>>>vegan€”it could be a new friend, co-worker, distant family, or a
>>>>complete stranger. I know I then have but a tiny window of
>>>>opportunity to indelibly convey their first impression of veganism.
>>>>Im either going to open that window for that person, breezing in
>>>>fresh ideas and sunlight, or slam it shut as the blinds fall. So I
>>>>talk to them of mercy. Of the cats and dogs with whom theyve shared
>>>>their lives. Of birds with a half piece of papers worth of space in
>>>>which to live and die. Of animals sometimes literally suffering to
>>>>death. I used to eat meat too, I tell them. Lots of meat. And I never
>>>>knew either.
>>>>
>>>>Slowly but surely the horror dawns on them. You start to see them
>>>>struggling internally. How can they pet their dog with one hand and
>>>>stab a piece of pig with the other? They love animals, but they eat
>>>>animals. Then, just when their conscience seems to be winning out,
>>>>they learn that we dont eat honey. And you can see the conflict
>>>>drain away with an almost visible sigh. They finally think they
>>>>understand what this whole €œvegan€� thing is all about. Youre not
>>>>vegan because youre trying to be kind or compassionate€”youre just
>>>>crazy! They smile. They point. You almost had me going for a second,
>>>>they chuckle. Whew, that was a close one. They almost had to
>>>>seriously think about the issues. They may have just been considering
>>>>boycotting eggs, arguably the most concentrated form of animal
>>>>cruelty, and then the thought hits them that youre standing up for
>>>>insect rights. Maybe they imagine us putting out little thimble-sized
>>>>bowls of food for the cockroaches every night.
>>>>
>>>>Im afraid that our public avoidance of honey is hurting us as a
>>>>movement. A certain number of bees are undeniably killed by honey
>>>>production, but far more insects are killed, for example, in sugar
>>>>production. And if we really cared about bugs we would never again
>>>>eat anything either at home or in a restaurant that wasnt strictly
>>>>organically grown€”after all, killing bugs is what pesticides do best.
>>>>And organic production uses pesticides too (albeit €œnatural€�).
>>>>Researchers measure up to approximately 10,000 bugs per square foot
>>>>of soil€”thats over 400 million per acre, 250 trillion per square
>>>>mile. Even €œveganically€� grown produce involves the deaths of
>>>>countless bugs in lost habitat, tilling, harvesting and
>>>>transportation. We probably kill more bugs driving to the grocery
>>>>store to get some honey-sweetened product than are killed in the
>>>>products production.
>>>>
>>>>Our position on honey therefore just doesnt make any sense, and I
>>>>think the general population knows this on an intuitive level.
>>>>Veganism for them, then, becomes more about some quasi-religious
>>>>personal purity, rather than about stopping animal abuse. No wonder
>>>>veganism can seem nonsensical to the average person. We have this
>>>>kind of magical thinking; we feel good about ourselves as if were
>>>>actually helping the animals obsessing about where some trace
>>>>ingredient comes from, when in fact it may have the opposite effect.
>>>>We may be hurting animals by making veganism seem more like petty
>>>>dogmatic self-flagellation.
>>>>
>>>>In my eyes, if we choose to avoid honey, fine. Lets just not make a
>>>>huge production of it and force everybody to do the same if they want
>>>>to join the club.
>>>>
>>>>Michael Greger, M.D. is a physician, vegan nutrition specialist, and
>>>>author of Carbophobia! The Scary Truth About Americas Low-Carb Craze
>>>>(Lantern). For more on the honey question, see Vegan Outreachs Vegan
>>>>Starter Pack Q&A at http://www.veganoutreach.org/starterpack/qa.html
>>>
>>>
>