Roy wrote:

> Nope ....the yeast is already high enough comparable with western
> cookbooks but the sugar is high and the salt is less but considering
> the salt in butter the toal salt will be in the vicinity of 1.3%

Sorry, this recipe was a bad example. I've made breads at this school that
call for a tablespoon of yeast for about 180-200 grams of flour. Isn't
that a lot of yeast?

> Such short time process as done in baking schools promotes higher
> dough temperature which is also another reason for a bread that
> hardens rapidly.. it is not about overkneading but the dough seems to
> be warmer than normal.
>

So if I were to slow down the process--use a longer rise in the fridge, for
example, would I get a better textured bread? I'm not asking about this
challah recipe, in particular, but any recipe using this type of short time
process. I have made some breads at this school that I rather liked, but I
generally cannot eat them all before they get hard (and one recipe is
usually only for 6 buns!).

> That is promoted also by consistent high proofing temperature to an
> already warm dough
> I am not sure if your oven has the right temperature baking a challah
> ring for 180 and 11 minutes looks short for me. Maybe it was more.
> Was the ring thin looking that it dried up the oven?

It was 12 minutes at 180C. These are small convection gas ovens which in my
experience, do bake more quickly than North American-sized ovens, though.
I've had to make both temperature and time adjustments to my North American
baking recipes here.

>Yes its texture
> is soft when freshly baked but when it cools down it becomes hard
> easily.
> Another thing is the bread appears underproofed . does the bread feels
> heavy for its size ?

I didn't think it felt heavy, at all. But then, I'm comparing it with other
breads I've made at this school. The dough had risen sufficiently, though.


> Rapid cooling does not affect the softness of the loaf,from how I see
> it your bread before and after it was baked is inferior , appears
> dry and feels heavy in my minds eye.
> In conclusion it was a lousy bread.
> You should have placed it on the head of your teacher as a symbolic
> crown for his stupid bread making style<g>
> Your class should have invited your instructor to the park and play
> Frisbee with your recently baked Japanese style challah<g>
> As a remedy you can follow the recipe for challah from a well know
> baking book used by the folks in alt bread recipes and compare the
> result.

Thanks. I'm actually not that interested in challah :-o! I just used that
recipe as an example. Now that I'm learning how to knead sticky doughs and
such, however, I would like to start experimenting with artisinal-type
breads and some rare (in Japan) breads. I can get some fabulous breads here
in Japan, but cannot get a good loaf of sourdough, rye, or pumpernickle!

rona

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