I should also add that when you create your "sour" loaf with this method you
should use a high protein flour in order to protect against gluten
degradation, otherwise your loaf will begin to tear before it is ready to be
baked.

Trevor

"Trevor J. Wilson" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> "Dick Adams" writes:
> <<In my hands, attempts to affect the flavor or acidity of the final bread
> by manipulating preferments have led only to sour bricks.>>
>
> I have had a fair amount of success in affecting flavor and sourness by
> manipulating preferments. One method that I find works particularly well
> is a variation of the "old dough" method.
>
> Create a starter and make your dough. Reserve a small portion of this
> dough to create a new starter (say 10% old dough by total starter weight).
> When this "new" starter is active create another dough using around 10%
> starter by total dough weight. If you bake this dough you will have a
> mild, but flavorful loaf. If you wish to have a more sour loaf, then hold
> this dough over until the gluten begins to break down (for starters that
> refrigerate well it can be held in the fridge for up to 2-3 days). Then
> use a large portion of this old dough (say 25% by total dough weight) to
> create the dough for a significantly more sour bread. Just be sure to
> calculate for the salt that remains in these starters when you make your
> dough.
>
> In essence what you will be doing is creating a cycle in which your "mild"
> dough is used to create both a starter for your "mild" dough, and is also
> aged and used as *the* starter for your "sour" dough. It's a bit of a
> circular pattern. And I've never created any sour bricks with this method.
>
> Trevor
>
>
> "Dick Adams" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> "Joe Doe" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> ... Carl's starter behaves like SDI Russian - potent
>> leavening less potent flavor. Ed wood comments that because of this
>> (early peak in leavening) you need to let the dough age and add some
>> flour to reinvigorate the leavening power.
>
> I remember Mrs. Wood saying (writing) something about letting the
> refreshed starter get beyond peak and then adding some flour to
> get it going again before proceeding to the dough. Then there was a
> two starter method by Barb Beck, where she combined an over ripe
> starter with and active one. In my hands, attempts to affect the flavor
> or acidity of the final bread by manipulating preferments have led
> only to sour bricks.
>
> Several persons have mentioned the similarity between SDI Russia
> and Carl's.
>
>> Even if I do this, the flavor is not blow your socks of complex.
>
> I am not sure that I am ready to agree that "complex" is a flavor.
>
>> I do not have 100% confidence that I would get the same starters that I
>> bought 10 odd years ago if I repurchased from SDI so have not yet gone
>> this route.
>
> It would be interesting to find out. I understood that they kept their
> cultures
> together in the same fridge and refreshed semiannually. There seemed to
> be
> a conviction that synergy and/or symbiosis would keep the cultures from
> melding. I would not be good for making that determination because
> nothing I got from them came to life in the first place, and I am not an
> expert anyway in remembering flavors. So I am nominating you.
>
> --
> DickA
>
> P.S. to Darrell: the Beck references at
> http://www.nyx.net/~dgreenw/sourdoughfaqs.html
> appear to have become obsolete.
>
>